Whats your definition of being clean??

I think alot of people have there own definition .What is yours ?

****  feel free to debate it  if you choose just do not use this post to bash others feelings. Posts of that nature will be removed ***

[refusingbondage]

To me "CLEAN" is 100% free and clear of any substance your addicted to.  

If your an opiate addict, clean is 100% clean of opiates.

If your an alchololic, clean is 100% clean of alcohol.  

If your both, then .. well you get it.

[avisg]

Mine is being off all MIND ALTERING chemicals including alcohol .With the expression of being needed for serious medical reasons when taking it as directed with serious safety measures in place .

[avisg]

exception LOL

[GA Guy]

Living each day without the influence of mind altering chemicals. That means that even though my drug of choice is oxycodone, I stay away from alcohol, benzos, and other mind altering substances.

[Ali1226172]

I think being clean is getting off your drug of choice even if that means using maintence drugs to help with withdrawal through doctors care.  I consider myself clean even though I am weening off suboxone.  I wouldn't say I'm a hundred percent drug free but, for me this is a HUGE step being able to get off 3-4 roxies a day that I got off the street.  I do realize suboxone is still an opiate and hope to be off ALL OPIATES very soon.  However, I still consider myself "in the process of getting a hundred percent clean, and clean off my drug of choice" :)
And I agree I think everyone will have a different answer to this question...
I personally believe that everyone has there own methods of getting clean, and most of us will use alternative drugs although the way.  However, we must always be working toward the end goal of being 100% drug free :)

I'm interested to hear peoples views on this

[rue10]

I believe it's being clean of any mood alterating substance that you have a problem or potential problem with.  For me I knew opiates were a "potential problem" before they became a real problem....however, my addict disposition chose to ignore it.

Thanks for the post....

[vicki595]

Not taking mind altering drugs/substances is clean,to me.  Drinking lots of water and taking a load of vitamins a day is sqeaky clean.

V.

[Jebs317]

To me....being clean is feeling like I used before taking that first pill.  It means smiling because I'm happy.....not because I have a full bottle of pills.  It means doing the laundry and errands because it needs to be done.....not because I'm popping pills and have endless energy.  
Clean to me means that I haven't done anything today that I have to feel guilty about.

[narla]

For me being clean is 100% free of opiates and alcohol my DOC,I still take medication for depression,anxiety and panic attacks-zoloft only as prescribed by my doctor.

Denise

[kc156]

For me it is being completely off opiates, I still enjoy a few beers after work.
                                                                                                                           karl

[krissy30]

6 or 7 seven years ago I thought I was clean being on Methadone....Boy was I wrong, as soon as I was trying to wean off it, I relapsed...Opiates are very tricky buggers! Now I know I wasn't clean.  

Please don't get me wrong, many of us need help (methadone, suboxone) to get clean, but they should only be used for the least amount of time possible.  Because, and I stress this, your brain's chemicals will only start to reproduce the proper levels of chemicals when you are totally free of all drugs.....Of course as others said, there are exceptions....like after major surgery....well you get my point...

[Htownnofrown]

To me, being clean means abstaining from all mind altering substances. My problem was opiates and weed but you wont see me drinking or using other scrips either. Being clean is choosing not to change my state of mind.

Being clean isn't everything, though. I need to be in RECOVERY in order to be living life as God intended. There's no point, (to me) to be free of drugs and still engaging in addict behavior. That means I have to live in the will of my higher power and do my best to make the next right choice. When I do this, I find that I have no need to use drugs or alcohol for whatever reason.

[stilltrying1965]

To not be dependant on any drug what so ever. I think there,s a differance if you take pain meds for chronic pain as long as you are taking as prescribed and not taking extras.So this is my opinion ofbeing clean good post Avis ,,,,,,james
What confuses me is alcohol were do we define an alcoholic i know some ppl that have two beers a night some that only drink to socialise and some binge drink When do we know when we are alcoholics ?

[GA Guy]

If you're an addict James, then alcohol is not a good idea. It plays on the same receptors in the brain that opiates do. You may not become an alcoholic, but it will lead you back to your drug of choice.

[10356]

I can answer that one james.. when it has a negative impact on your life our consumes your thoughts.. for me being clean is not using drugs.. unfortunately for me this also means alcohol although I have had a glass of wine here and there.. I know I should not but there it is.. lesa

[stilltrying1965]

Thank you for your answers just asked out of curiosity I am not a drinker drugs were always what got me. I do have a drink but onle x mas birthdays ect but when i do i tend to bing drink, Hence the bear with the sore head. So i choose not to drink,,,,,,James
P S dont get me wrong have a glass of wine or a beer as long as you are in control . Thank you for clearing that up Letakos & Ga guy

[salsinator]

For me, being clean is definitely being free of your drug of choice and not using, but I also consider alcohol as a mind altering substance that - being an addict - would be very easy to abuse, so I have chosen to not drink as well. So, I am completely free of all mind altering substances.  

[avisg]

I don't believe an addict can take  any mood altering substances without at some point ending up abusing it .So no I don't believe you can socially drink .Or take a benzo for panic addicts .At some point I will end up abusing them .I wont put myself or my family threw that they don't deserve and neither do I

[salsinator]

I agree Avis - I have been there and done that.  Anything mind altering  that I have ever touched - alcohol, benzos, pot, opiates, and meth......I have abused them all - so - I stay as far away from them and anyone who uses them!  Good post.

[GA Guy]

I'll also say something Avisg and I have talked about....those people here with significant clean time (1 year or longer) will tell you that they all abstain from ALL mood altering CHEMICALS....including alcohol. Like I've told many people, if you can be arrested for being impaired while driving and taking (or drinking) it, then you don't need to be ingesting it.

[avisg]

GA is right Talk to the members with significant clean time and ask them whether they use any mood altering symptoms .

[Htownnofrown]

I'll have a year on May 5th and I haven't put any mind altering substances in my body since May 4th of last year. It's just not worth it to me to risk what I have for a "drink or two". I put that in quotations because I never really want a drink or two once I have that drink or two. I want more and more so while a drink may sound nice after a long day, I know once I have that first drink I'll want more and I don't ever want to feel another craving since I haven't felt that feeling in about 9 months.

[ang_811]

I thought I was clean since haven't touched a pill n almost 2 years since I've been on methadone and now weening off of suboxone. Up until I tried to get off of the methadone and had the worst wds I ever experienced. Then I realized I was back at square one. That's when I realized I wasn't drug free after all. So to me it is also having no mind altering substances in ur body.

[troubleinohio]

avis- i take xanax for panic attacks (as you know), do you feel that I am not clean? I dont abuse them, never have. I dont overuse, misuse. they dont get me high. They take away my debilitating and horrifying panic attacks so that i can breathe again. When i have my panic attacks, I cant breathe, my heart feels like its going to explode, I CHOKE- i literally feel like my throat closes shut and I cant even swallow the spit in my mouth let alone breathe through it. They are horrifying. BTW i went to my PCP today after that long debate about him cutting me off it, i had a long talk with him and by the end of my appt he apologized for scaring me so bad and for threatening to cut me off. he gave me a new RX for it with 2 refills. I was never so relieved!  Anyways, does this make me "not clean"? Ive been off vicodin for about 280 days now.
PS he ordered a ton fo bloodwork for me since Ive been a long time anemic and to check my thyroid since my sugar is crashing bad lately (had a 41 which is super low/scary)

[avisg]

I don't think it possible for an addict to take any mood altering chemicals with out abusing them at some point .I my personal thought on it. What you consider to be clean is up to you .

[Htownnofrown]

Well when people ask "are you clean?" it usually comes in terms of drug testing. I guess an easy way to define it for me is if I can pass a 12 panel drug test and an alcohol swab at anytime of the day then I know I qualify as clean.

[Ali1226172]

To avisg,

I completely agree with your post inwhich you said:
"I don't believe an addict can take any mood altering substances without at some point ending up abusing it .So no I don't believe you can socially drink .Or take a benzo for panic addicts .At some point I will end up abusing them .I wont put myself or my family threw that they don't deserve and neither do I."

However, I have a question inregards to taking benzos for a panic attack/anxiety, what are the other options for those who suffer from SEVERE anxiety and frequent panic attacks?? What option does that person have when antidepressants have not helped, and behavioral therapy/meditation has not stopped the panic attacks either??  I personally do not understand the allure of benzos for I have never had a problem with them.  I have taken them only when I'm having an actual panic attack which is probably about once every two months or if the anxiety is so severe that it disrupts my everyday life...
Many of us suffer from both mental illness and addiction so how do we determine what we can and can not take in order to treat our mental illness?  Do we just suffer through live??  If my doctor perscribes me klonopin for my anxiety knowing I had an addiction with opiates should I not take them, even if I only take them as perscribed??  Is klonopin a benzo because it does not alter my state of mind what so ever?  The only thing it does is help alleviate the anxiety....  I haven't taken anything yet but, I will be seeing a doctor soon so I am wondering what my options are here??  If I have to suffer with this awful anxiety and panic attacks than surely I will relapse and go back to the opiates but, if I get on the right medication and do behavioral therapy maybe I can actually have a good life without every taking another illegal drug and also without having to suffer from my anxiety disorder...I'm just very torn on this topic, if anyone can help?

[troubleinohio]

avis Ive been on xanax so many years now..long before i became addicted to vicodin. I also do not consider xanax to be a mood altering drug for me. All it does is relieve significant physical symptoms. It is no different than a diabetic taking insulin or someone taking blood pressure medicine for high BP..

[avisg]

That your prerogative how ever it is absolutely mood alterting if it were not it would not be effective for panic attacks

[Ali1226172]

That is excatly my point troubleinohio.... my question to you avisg is how do we know if are simply treating our mental illness or feeding our addiction?? It's a fine line...

[Ali1226172]

So what is effective?? I am new in my recovery and want to make sure that I don't do anything to jeapordize my addiction.  For the first time ever I genuiely want help in conquering both my mental illness, and my addiction.  I am not interested in anything that will alter my state of mind, I just simply want to feel "normal".  Can I ask if you a mental illness along with your addiction?? Have you ever had treatment?  If so what is the more effective treatment that is also not going to pose a treat to my sobriety?  Thank you for your responses :)  

[avisg]

ali yes I do I have had ptsd i am recovery from anorexia and I suffer from panic attacks as well . It's almost midnight I have a child to wake up for so I will write more in the morning OK:)

[anotheroldrocker]

Clean and sober to me means 100% clean and sober from alcohol and mind altering drugs (legal or non) of any type. No opiate type of pills, no tranquelizers, no beer or wine, no pot, etc. That is clean and sober.

[cleanmom]

Troubleinohio,

Stay on your xanax. If you were going to have a problem with it, then that would have happened already.

I believe that if you were to stop your xanax treatment now than you may very well put your sobriety in jeopardy.

I think being clean is different for everyone. We all have individual circumstances that will determine what is neccessary for us to remain clean and sober.

These are your circumstances Trouble. You are doing what you need to do stay safe and sober. There is no reason to suffer needlessly.


Everyone has an opinion here but i really think we need to be more open-minded and accomodating to some of our fellow sufferers of this disease because for some of you, the medications you take for your mental illnesses are the very reason you have been or are able to stay the course with your sobriety.

This is my opinion.

Jacky

[Ali1226172]

I agree Jacky.  I know for me personally I was using opiates to cope with severe anxiety, depression, n adhd.  Now I'm getting clean off the opiates, and have full intentions on staying clean even if that means taking alternative medications through a doctors care to treat my illnesses.  However, I am doing everything with caution because I am determined to be clean :)

[avisg]

Nobody is telling them otherwise what there opinion of clean is is there choice as is mine .that does not mean that they have to share my opinion not do I have to share there's .that's what the whole post is about is everyone is going to have too have different  thoughts on it tio and Ali feel that they need them then that what they should do. I learned other mythods to Handle mine .becuse I know what will happen if it take them now . I took them for a cpl of years before I was heavly addicted to opeates . I can't take anything as prescribed now so I don't take anything at all

[dominosarah]

These are my feelings here and the way i have to live my life.  I cannot use ANY mood altering substances.  I am 100% clean.  I have learned to handle my anxiety and stress in other ways thru my aftercare.  Each one of us has to do what is right for them.  I am an addict and have absolutely no control when it comes to mood altering substances.  I think we are very open minded on this forum and very supportive.  Each one of us brings something to the table and we are all entitled to our opinions........sara

[narla]

I have tried to cut down on my zoloft,every time I do I end up suicidal,is zoloft considered mind altering,it does not affect me like alcohol and opiates did,and my doctor has told me not to stop taking the zoloft.So what do you do.

Denise

[broknbck]

free,  and able to be happy on my own!

[GA Guy]

Zoloft is considered safe for addicts and is not considered a mood altering drug by addiction specialists. I think the words "mood altering" can be very misleading, because antidepressants are mood altering by their very definition. However, the difference between antidepressants and benzos is the abuse potential and tolerance issues.

[avisg]

no dont stop taking your zoloft u are fine on it

[dominosarah]

Stay on your meds you are on and keep doing what you have been.  You are doing great girl~~~~~~sara

[kris123]

For me being clean is being off my drug of choice, which is percocet.  I am taking subutex, but I consider my clean even though I am taking that.  Lots of people take drugs to be "normal."  Look at depressed people they take antidepressants to help them to be happy and normal - are they drug addicts because they need that drug - I dont' think so.  Am I not clean because I am taking subutex, I don't think so.  I am bipolar and need my bipolar meds, I have to take them, I consider subutex on the same level as my bipolar meds, without them, I wouldn't be normal.  Being clean to me is not abusing drugs. Since I don't abuse my subutex or my bipolar meds, I am consider myself clean.  Some may disagree, but I don't care :)

[narla]

I'm pleased to find out zoloft is not considered mind altering,now I can truly consider myself clean,I have worked so hard to be clean,238 days

[avisg]

narla you have done a great job are u enjoying it more now i know you were struggling in the beginning

[Jebs317]

I don't think you understand how dangerous xanax is.  I was prescribed it for panic.  It did help with that, but I didn't really understand the danger of this drug.  I was taking it while abusing pain pills....which now that I think back, I was probably giving myself panic because I was taking so many pain pills.  I took xanax for a month or so and then just figured I didn't need it, so I stopped.  It was worse than withdrawals from vicodina and percocet.  I talked to my PCP at the time.....and her advice....keep taking it.  So I did.  I don't know why or how, but the xanax gave me a 4 day black out.  My ex boyfr found me passed out on the bedroom floor and I spent 4 days in the hospital from a xanax overdose.  Don't remember ANY of it.....but with the date on the bottle,he and the doctor figured out that I took 70 within 36 hours.  I'm pretty sure, I should have been dead.  I got out of the hospital Sunday night and by Monday morning was on my way to a hospital detox for the opiates.
I abused opiates.....I made a conscious decision day after day to make sure I had at least 8 -10 vic or perc to take.   I knew what they were, I knew why I took them.  But, I had no idea what xanax was all about.  This is just one of the things on my long list of stupid and unthinkable things that I did while high on pills.  I can pretty much guess that if I wasn't taking pills.....I wouldn't have even needed to ask for "something for panic."

[avisg]

Jebs that is so scary. I am so gald you made it threw .You learned from it but that was a scary lesson .

[Jebs317]

Thank you....it was scary.  Scarier now that I think about it with a clear head.  I didn't even know I was taking the xanax let alone taking 70.  
Thanks!  It feels good to write this stuff and "get it out"...

[Bad_Obsession]

I think Jebs said it best...for me anyways:  "To me....being clean is feeling like I used before taking that first pill.  It means smiling because I'm happy.....not because I have a full bottle of pills.  It means doing the laundry and errands because it needs to be done.....not because I'm popping pills and have endless energy.  
Clean to me means that I haven't done anything today that I have to feel guilty about. "

[Ali1226172]

I love this post, it just keeps going on, and on lol.  It's true what avisg has said.  We are all entitled to our own opions, and although we may have different opions we can all learn from each other.

To Kris123:  You are doing great, getting off our choice of drug is very very hard so if you need subtex while your still recovering than that's awesome that you are self-aware, and know what works for you.  I also need subtex to help me in my recovery, mainly because it will stop me from using with it's opiate blocking chemicals.  Also I too feel "normal" on the low dose of subtex right now, and I hope soon I will feel "normal" still when I feel strong enough to get off the subtex :)  I don't think anyone is here to judge anyone.  It's all about being self-aware, and making choices that lead to sobriety/health/happiness.  We just all have to be aware of our addictions, and make sure we are careful not to get wrapped up in a new one.  
Also To Narla: Congrats on all that time clean, stay on your zoloft that's a wonderful antidepressant :) Don't stop abrubtly those suicidal feelings can occur or ya could even have a seizure so stay on the meds as PERSCRIBED :)
Now to you Jebs: First off thank god for the angels who were looking over you :)  and, pain pills are the devil they literally take over our minds causing us to do things we would never do otherwise.  I know xanex can be a dangerous drug if abused and I heard the withdrawals can be nasty.  However, some people who take xanex excatly as perscribed may benifit wonderfully from it.  I think it's all about making sure we do our research, after all it's OUR bodies we are feeding with these drugs.  Also I think it's a bit unfair to blame the xanex for that terrible situation.  I mean if you took 70 advil it would be just as bad..It was probably more of the pain pills that ignited that addict in you and than i'm sure taking the xanex only made it worse.  I'm just happy you are ok, and are getting clean :)  I'll be here fighting with ya!

*GoodNight All* Keep posting your opinions I love learning more about everyones story, and It's good for us all to share different opinions with respect, and an open mind.. who knows what we might learn :)

[merrymaria]

being clean for me means waking up every morning and not heading to the medicine cabinet for a bottle of pills....it means not taking any mind altering substances ever...NONE...i do smoke cigs though if that counts....maria

[gnarly_1]

for me being clean is being free from chasing the "high" and being dependent on opiates in my case ...but thew out life there has been different vises for me in my teens and 20 it was pot and alcohol but there was also a time that LSD became a problem..in my early 20 I got off chemicals and then only used pot and alcohol till 26 then I abstained till 30 then I started on pain pills that ran till I was 38 then I added back the pot and alcohol to the mix then the methadone....I have spent a good part of my life chasing the buzz but have also quit things along the way...this last march marked 5yrs for me with pot and alcohol and now I got 185days off the methadone 3yrs off the cigs my last vise will be my bipolar meds..I very well may need to stay on these or risk going into a manic episode (insane) or sever depression or my favorite (not) both at the same time...it su##s to live with this disorder ....its probably why I self medicated most of my life...most of these meds I don't think you could get high on if you wanted to they dont work that way....when there working you don't even know your on them..its only when im approaching a manic episode or going into a bad depression that the my phyc dr has to adjust them at all and she has proven to know what she is doing over the 7yrs she has treated me...I have been hospitalized twice in 7yrs both times for manic episodes so the deseise is real and very frighting no one like to think there insane I don't like the fact that I have to be on medication but it beats the alternative ...some day I hope to be medication free but for right now thats just not possible what is possible is I no longer chase the "high" or the "buzz" I am sober I could pass a drug test the drugs I take now are just like b/p meds you dont even know your on them but the do have a profound use they keep me sane this is the best I can do under the current circumstances ...good luck to all on there road to sobriety ...what ever that looks like to you....Gnarly                

[narla]

yes avisg I am finally able to enjoy being clean,I have gone through counselling for the other stuff I was dealing with and can now lead a happy life without the alcohol and opiates.My counsellor will always be just a phone call away if I need him,including aftercare for my addiction.

Denise

[Skidmore]

To me being clean means all mood alterating drugs of any sort shape or form.I have not drank since july93 Shot dope used cocaine,smoked pot used benzos,termazapan,diazipan qualudes tuinal,seconal,angel dust,zanex,methadone.However I started taking vicoden in 2005 as needed for pain.I have gotten pretty busted up hitting a street sander in a head on collision.While shooting shooting dope.I can justify use of as needed meds as well as anyone on this site.Today I believe for me all controlled substance and alcohol,Is not being clean,Weather its pain anxiety,panic attac or sleeping disorder or soboxin methedone or any other substance,It is peeing dirty.I am trying to be true to myself to pee clean and live clean.To thy own self be true.I love all you guys and gals and dont want to offend anyone

[troubleinohio]

wow 70 xanax...it is a miracle youre alive for sure! Im so glad you are still with us! As for my xanax intake- I have weaned down from what i was taking. For awhile i was RX'd to take 1-2 MG a day. THe most I ever took in one day was 1 mg (and that was when that harrassment/threats were going on where my children and self were being threatened daily to be shot dead or house burnt down and I was a basketcase). Now the past 2 months or so, Ive been taking only .25 per dose, usually just twice a day so thats .5 or 1/2 mg a day. Some days its as much as .75 per day but thats it. A few times I made it on just one quarter of a pill a day (.25 mg / per 24 hrs) so I think Im doing pretty good. Im just not ready to jump off entirely at this time for many reasons (#1 reason is my panic attacks are still quite severe and frequent).   btw, the nutcase who's been threatening us still has not been caught by the police but his calls have at least dwindled down significantly, thank god!)

[dominosarah]

Until you get yourself into some sort of recovery program these panic attacks will continue at the severity you report.  Im not saying you wont still have them but i bet they would be significantly reduced.  You cant keep just going thru the motions here........sara

[stilltrying1965]

I thought i was clean but only from heroin as i get 60mg of valium per day to control my seziures this is all a bit dissapointing for me Oh well you learn somthing new everyday ,,,,James

[dominosarah]

James, you have a medical reason to be on Valium.  Look what happens when you dont take it.  Dont get down on yourself......keep counting those days!!!!!!!         sara

[pharma9]

You ARE clean James.Your valium is prescribed and needed in your case and I call that clean
My definition of clean is living a life without any unprescribed prescription drugs or taking illegal substances and the prescribed drugs should be used as prescribed and not abused.
For most of us that means complete abstinence from opiates and stimulants and tranquilizers because we can not control ourselves,but some people really need them and do not abuse them.
I do not think all drugs should be avoided because I still take tylenol and ibuprofen and they are drugs and I drink 3 glasses of wine a week.
I consider that OK and think I am living a clean life

[avisg]

James you take it for sezuires .
Plus that was the point be view clean diffrently and thats ok .

[stilltrying1965]

Avis Sara That means coz i dont abuse them im clean thats right eh.As i get them for sezures thats ok im still clean. If so im feeling happy again Thanks girls.,,,,,,,James

[stilltrying1965]

Thank you also pharma. I feel happy again as i need to take them my doctor wont let me stop them and i have to take another drug aswell for my eszures buut cant spell it Thanks pharma. ,,,,,James

[leeisgettingclean]

I feel that being clean means...."being free of UNNESSARY UNPRESCRIBED mind//mood changing  substance" Also, I feel that reult of being clean and a nessary part of staying clean is "living a honest, accountable life and being a helpful part of socaity"