When do the Dopamine levels return?

[susanlea]

My boyfriends been clean from Oxy's and Perc's for about 6 weeks now I think. While he was abusing them for 2 years up to 300mg's of Oxy's and 6-10 Perc's aday, he had no interest in anything, love, sex, movies ect. When will he start wanting to be close again?  Does narcotic abuse have a long term affect on someone's libido? Thanks for any info.

[tom to Lea]

I know in my own case my narcotic use definately reduces my interest in sex. I compensate by my wife and I smoking some pot right before bed. Pot causes an immediate surge in testosterone blood levels for both men and women. Testosterone is a sexual stimulant for both men and women, so we still manage to have a fairly satisfying sex life, although I know she's like it more often (she doesn't use narcotics). She has learned to accept it because she knows opiates are, after 27 years, integral to who I am, for good or ill. Generally, the more potent the opiate, the more profound it's effect on sex drive. I can't speak to your dopamine question, but I know, over time, your guy's drive will return, provided he doesn't remain obsessed with using oxy's and percs. Hope that helped.

[Frankinscense]

People People:
This information about marijuana stimulating tetesterone is a myth. Medically speaking(based on factual information) marijuana lowers tetesterone levels in the body. That is why men who use heavy pot for many years develop breasts and beard thinnings. If you questions  my comments; do a search on the web on marijuana.
The only way pot could help sexual activity is by acting as a mild tranquiliser by it inhibition lowering properities.
Sincerely,Doc Dan
                                                                  PS: I am not a medical doctor. That is a nickname given to me by my co-workers because of my knowledge of psychoactive drugs and there effects on the brain and nervous system. Thanks .....
I am not posting here to offend anyone only to stop misinformation. IMO

[Tim P.A.C PhD]

I would recommend seeing a doctor to start anti-depressent therapy.  I think that your boyfriend would benefit from a SSRI such as Prozac.  This might help him get back on his feet from his drug addiction by restoring his neurotransmitter levels back to normal.

[tom to Doc Dan]

the last info I saw (about a year ago) was a graph showing an initial "bump" in testosterone levels followed by a steady decrease which, as you say, dips well below the "norm." I'm not a doctor, either, but the guy presenting these results was. Motto, smoke it IN bed. If you wait, the only thing you'll be having sex with is your fridge.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

SSRI's have a detrimental effect on libido. Paxil is one that I have personnal experience with.  Many people complain about sexual problems with SSRI's. You better do some reading on it!

[susanlea]

Thanks for the replies.  My boyfriend was on Prozac and still uses it once in awhile, but the Prozac seemed to make it worse.  It's been over a year now, that he's wanted to do nothing,nothing at all. He won't see a Dr. and I'm worried, he's only 38 years old.  I'm not sure but I've even thought he's using again, he's relapsed almost continually since detox 6 months ago. He was very good at hiding it, he just moved to another room and blamed me. But he's been around both emotionally and physically for about 6 weeks now, I'm hoping things will improve. He's been getting sick alot lately almost weekly, which leads me to believe he's binging and withdrawing on and off.  But how can I tell? He doesn't go anywhere, and is home right after work everynight.  Hopefully he just really has the flu, I'm trying not to be paranoid, and I won't ask him, because when I do, he swears he's clean, I'm trying to believe him even after the lies.  Good thing I have my NA and Al-anon meetings, plus a great sponser, I wouldn't have made it without her, or all you great folks on the forum, thanks again....

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

My youngest daughter goes by Lea, too. Anyway, as a cross addicted person, I can tell you that what your boyfriend is going through is complete B.S.! Didn't they tell you that in ALONON and NA? Sorry to be so blunt about this but He probably does not have the influenza virus. It is more like depression and he also wants to blame you for everything. Right? It sounds sooo familiar because I've been there and done that. Do you really feel like he is there for you at all? Do you have any children that he interacts with on their level and makes them and you feel loved? His constant aches and pains and chronic complaints about his health lead me to believe that he "is" really ill and it is probably due to drug abuse. Get the hell out of there and get him some help before you fall with him. Does the term co-dependent ring a bell?

[Chad B]

I disagree with J.B. to a point.  You can't just get away from him.  He needs you more than you can imagine.  I agree about the co-dependant part but, you can't just run from your problem.  Problems in a relationship are supposed to be shared.  If you really care for someone you will not leave them, that is the easy way out.  You honestly think he would be better if you left?? Yeah right !!! He would probably OD within a week, or it would just make him much more miserable, and he would slip deeper into the narcotics world.  Yes..True..Drugs will cause you to loose everything, but why can't you be the one who defies that law.  Be there for him as much as you can, although it seems you are running out of things to give.  What it seems to me is, you have to find the source of his problem, be it, the doctor prescribing, or problems growing up.  If something knocks you down, come back running.

[Tim P.A.C PhD]

Sometimes the neurotransmitter serotonin may underlie alcohol desires or cravings.  If Prozac did not help him, there are many other methods to help alcoholism.  It sounds just like he is binge drinking to me.  Some drugs such as Disulfiram may pinpoint if he is binging or not.  Disulfiram (Antabuse) discourages alcohol consumption because the combination of the two produces a strong adversive reaction consisting of nausea and sweating, etc.  Although disulfiram has been used widely in alcoholism treatment, its effectiveness is limited because many patients who want to continue drinking, simply stop the thearapy.  Other treatment include certain behavior approaches such as aversive conditioning, social skills training, relapse-prevention training, and just straight out support from his loved ones.  People with drinking problems who relapse are more likely than those who do not to have encountered stress, such as loss of a loved one or economic problems.  They are also more likely than those who maintain sobriety to rely on avoidance methods of coping, such as denial.  Successful abstainers from alcohol tend to have more social and family resources and support to draw upon in handling stress.  Bottom line-give him as much love and support as you can.  Alcoholism is a disease, not a bad characteristic of someone.  I know what you are going though. It is rough.  I have encountered alcoholism alot during my doctoral work at U.V.A.  I wish you the best of luck!!

[tom to Lea]

if your instincts tell you he's using, then he is. His current behavior just doesn't "ring true" for someone truly in recovery. I think you've pegged it with your binging theory. When I was a raving Vicodin addict, getting them only from legit doctors, my tolerance was such that every week I'd go from 2 days on to 2 days withdrawing, 2 days on …etc. The symptoms of withdrawal are very much like flu, only with a powerful psychological need added. Does he go to NA? Does he have a sponsor? Just so Doc Dan's head doesn't explode, I'll tell you up front that I am a 27-year opiate (narcotic) addict who has been through the re-hab wringer countless times, each time learning a little bit more about why I use, etc. I am also a chronic pain patient with 3 disks pressing on my spinal cord, so, irony of ironies, I now need opiates for more than just feeding the drug addict in me. This situation has forced me to engineer a kind of "Mexican standoff" with my habit, taking enough for pain in order to work and be a husband and father, with just a little more thrown in to "feed the monkey." AA or NA, of course, is all about total abstinence, something I simply cannot do. But for now, life is good in all aspects. How long I can maintain this is anybody's guess. Doc Dan the chemical dependency counselor will no doubt tell you (or me) that I am just bargaining, romancing the drug, remaining in denial, etc. - all perfectly sound theories.

Your husband, however, will probably need the kind of shock therapy my wife gave me about seven years ago that went like this: we were living in a motel for a month while our apartment was being worked on. The second night there, I woke up (came to) to find wife and son gone, bags and all. So there I was, no home, no family, no job, no friends and looking at 6 months in jail for rx forgery. That's what it took for me to realize that my life, my future, my freedom and most importantly, my family did matter to me and I had to do whatever it took to get them all back. I picked up the yellow pages next to my bed and started calling. I found a group that got me hooked up with re-hab, AA, a lawyer, etc.

Today, life is good. But it took the blatant threat of losing it all to "get my attention" and force me to get honest with people who knew what to do. I can't tell you what to do, but that's my story. I needed (and was sentenced to) a 90-day residential recovery program, with the old 90 meetings in 90 days thing. Your husband sounds likes he's beyond half-measures here. He may need a similar shock and similar treatment to change the course of his life. I'm glad you're in al-anon for your own sake. Don't forfeit you own future even if your husband doesn't care about his.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I'm sorry but I was having a really bad time yesterday with pain issues. I didn't mean that you should dump your boyfriend and run away. For your boyfriend's sake, don't abandon him! He needs your help.

[tom to Lea]

I agree my with my friend J.B.'s remarks. In my previous post, I did not mean to imply that you should institute divorce proceedings tomorrow morning. My wife and I are closer than ever today, our kids are grown and out of the house and we have embarked on a new life together. But if she hadn't left me passed out in that motel 7 years ago, none of this would be happening for us now. Sometimes it takes a real slap in the face to get someone's attention.

[susanlea]

Thanks so much, I've figured as much he was still using, something. First I can't leave, I own the house, but he's just now coming around my kids again, after ignoring them for about 6 months.  He was very abusive verbally, completely withdrawn, he would not eat with the family or spend any time with us, just lock his door and hide in his room.  He spent 5 days in detox, 6 months ago, and had to do 12 weeks outpatient, he had a great sponser, all was great for about a month, bingo, he reverted, I found out he was getting the Oxy's off the street, and from others, and from the Dr. who has told me he has given him a perscription just 2 weeks ago, but of course my boyfriend denies it.  So many lies, so much pain, so much abuse.  I have stood by this man for over 5 years, we are not married, no kids together but I have stood by him, because deep down I know, he doesn't want to hurt us, he was a very good man when I met him, and I know he's fighting his own demons right now.  Would I make him  leave?  He's been telling me he's leaving for 5 months now, and he hasn't, he's ok financially, so he doesn't need me for that. Finally I came to the conclusion, he had to leave, he had not called his sponser in 8 weeks, I tried an intervention, I tried everything I knew, but he refused all help, said he was fine and I was crazy, he wasn't using.  (I found an empty bottle of Oxy's and Dilaudid) all recent scripts, so he can't lie to me.  I asked him to leave, so my children and I could go on with our lives, Alanon has helped me tremendously, my sponser is just the most wonderful and caring person I have ever met.  Alanon's beliefs are great for everyday life, whether you have an addict in your life or not. But the last 2 weeks he's made me believe he want's to work it out.  It would be so much easier to walk away, I'm the one who has nothing to lose.  But even though things could get worse but not by much.  I still love him.  I now know love is so much more than words or show of affection.  It's in the soul, just like when people say the words when they marry, for better for worse, in sickness and in health, well that's where I'm at. Right now  I'm quiet, which is not my nature, but the one thing, perhaps the greatest thing I've learned in Alanon and NA, is that so one single person is Perfect, that we can't be disapointed if we have no expectations, but the greatest thing I've learned is to change my attitude, I can't fix him and I can't change him, all I can do, is be there for him when he needs me and just love him for who he is, even if he's an addict, because I really believe he didn't become an addict by choice, and we shouldn't leave someone because they are not perfect in others eyes, we can not judge only God can. You guys are great, and I love all of you for reaching out to others, and being honest, God will Bless you and everyone finds their way, the journey's long but the road is short.

[tom to Lea]

I hear what you're saying, but you sound a bit like Joan of Arc deciding to sacrifice herself and walk willingly into the fire. Surely, there must come a time when you have to ask your significant other, "What about me? What about my needs and my hopes and dreams? You're fine out there in la-la land on Dilaudid while I'm here with my kids wondering if you're even going to notice we exist tonight. You've got these re-hab counselors and doctors and nurses all focusing on you. When does someone start focusing on me and ask me if I'm getting what I need?"

Addicts spend every waking moment focusing on how they feel. "Am I coming down or getting higher? Do I have my drugs or do I have to go out and get some?" The wellbeing of others rarely intrudes on the self-absorption of addiction. It's not that he's evil and doesn't care. It's just part of the disease. Stick with al-anon. Let them know what you suspect or what you see going on. My heart goes out to you and your family. Good luck.

[susanlea]

Your words were right on the money.  Just when I thought things might just be improving, once again, all hell broke lose last night. He appeared very moody, I said just the wrong thing, and wham, He's telling me to shut my F'n mouth, that I'm nothing but an F'n B*&#h, shall I go on, the cycle has started again, the verbal abuse, the hiding in the room, bingo in the course of a second!  I told him I won't take the abuse anymore, for me or my kids, I ask him to leave today, I pray he will.  It's his way of controlling me.  He has got to be using something.  Who am I trying to kid?  I've been telling his friends I think he's clean when they've been suspecting he's not.  I have to get him to leave before he does ruin the last of the feelings I have for him.  He's even accusing me of cheating on him, which I've never ever done.  But you are absolutely right, I'm not getting anything from this, except more heartache, it's got to stop and I have to stop it.  He doesn't even want to get better.  Maybe I am trying to play the martyr, but I'll be damned if I'm going to be burned at the stake.  It's time to move on, and cut my loses.  Thanks Tom, between last night and your observation, I do see things alittle more clearly, and with a little guts just maybe I can put my life back together.

[Chad B]

He won't leave, he is in pain.  It's Drugs talking.  Ask him to go with you to NA or even a Pshychiatrist or marrige counsler, even though you're not married.  You love him, get him help.  Maybe you have to threaten him?? Maybe you have to fight with him.  DO WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO !! GO TO ANY EXTENT.  I pray for you, you seem like a very very good person and I wish you all the luck in the world.  Last year my younger brother 21 was hooked on Heroine, I walked in the bathroom and found him blue in his face, sweating, belt around his arm, and the needle on the sink.  I had to resesitate him mouth to mouth, walk him around, smack his face, etc... It was the scariest thing I have ever been through.  Well, after all of that, I had him arrested for driving with Heroine in his car.  It was all I could do to try and save his life.  I know it seems like an ******* thing to do, but it was to save his life at any extent possible you know?  Anyway he did spend time in jail, during that time he detoxed, withdrawled, and all that pleasant stuff.  When he got out he said he found God, he then got married, and is awaiting his first child in March !! I know he has been clean, and he is doing well, no pot, a little drinking, but other than that he was greatful for what I had done.  He wasn't at the time, but he is now !!! Do you see my point?  God Bless you, Chad Buckler

[susanlea]

Im so happy for your brother! You must be very proud of him, it takes alot of guts for someone to put their lives together, I'm not a very religious person, but I do believe God can save a person. In Alanon, they teach to give it up to a higher power, what ever your higher power is, if you put your life and your belief in him, all things are possible.  I have tried to get my boyfriend to go to NA with me, to go to some meetings with me, he refuses, says he's fine and nolonger has a problem, that if I wasn't such a B*$#h or make that with the F word infront of it, things would be fine, but they're not.  I don't believe I'm a bad person, when he first became addicted it was so bad, the Dr.'s said he became toxic, I talked him into going into detox, or I would leave him, he was soooo sick, he couldn't even get out of bed, I now know I enabled him, taking care of him, he was seriously sick for 9 weeks, couldn't work, and didn't get paid for not working, I took off almost 3 months to care for him before detox, needless to say $10,000 later, I didn't get very far with him, my savings are gone, and he blames me for everything, he stopped going to meetings long ago, and nolonger calls his sponser, and now he seems sick again, from what I don't know. He will not go to a counselor, he says for me to just leave him alone, it's already mid day and he's still in his room with the door locked, what a life, I haven't seen any packing! Now he acts like he hates me again. I have tried to break the co-dependency, and I can't confront him, because I don't want my kids to see this abuse again, they're little.  So in silence I remain....His kids never call, or maybe he doesn't call or see them anymore....it's sad to see this happen.  I used to be so emotional when this stuff would happen, but not anymore.  I've even thought of selling my house, he'd have to leave than.  He will not talk to me, and I'm afraid of him busting up the room again if I say anything, Great life,huh? Luckily my ex-husband doesn't know what's been going on, he's a criminal investigator and former DEA, what luck! My family and kids know about the addiction, I never lied to them.  My brother-in-law is a judge and he's not very happy with the situation. They like him but see no changes for the better, so far they've been letting me handle things, but they won't for long, I had hope, but it's dying again. I just can't say for sure he's using again, I think he is but if I accuse him of it and what if I'm wrong.  I just can't seem to win. At least the last 2 weeks were good, I just can't believe in the matter of minutes, everything is right back where it was.  Thank you so much for listening, my friends and family are tired of hearing it, I guess I would be too.

[susanlea]

Gee do I sound like I'm mixed up or what! Boy I contridict myself >I think I'll make an appointment tomorrow to see my therapist and right now I'll call my sponser.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I want to retract my apologias for telling you to get out and get help. I stand fast with my initial post even though I wrote it with much pain and trepidation. Sometimes our first response to a threat is the best we can manage. Just do what your heart and not your head tells you to do. Been there and done that!

[tom to Lea]

forget him, for a moment. Do you have a sponsor? I don't know much about alanon, but your story, his behavior, all sounds like a life story from the big book of AA. It also sounds as if you might be in physical danger. Do you have family to go to if you have to? I hate to say this, but it may get worse before it gets better. I sincerely hope you have an escape plan if he really goes off the deep end. If he's doing any kind of coke, crack or crystal meth, his mood swings and paranoia could get worse than anything you know how to cope with. The biggest problem "normy's" (non-addicts) have initially is that they have nothing in their own experience to prepare them for the job of handling an alcoholic/addict hitting bottom. I just hope you have someone at alanon to talk to that can give you help "in person" so to speak. You're in a similar situation to my wife when I was, basically, doing what your significant other is doing. Angrily denying using, hiding in a room, not communicating with family, not working. What was my bottom (assuming I don't have another to compare with it)? Detectives came to my house and led me away in handcuffs in front of my teenaged son. Arrested for rx forgery, I went to jail to detox in the jail hospital unit, got bail and eventually entered a 90-day inhouse program (including electronic house arrest) that started with detox and then pretty  much focused on AA meetings morning, noon and night. It's going to take something big to turn him around, I'm afraid. Non-addicts' most common mistake in dealing with an addict about to hit bottom is believing that half-measures are going to help. "He's cutting way back. He's communicating a little more. He's only wiped out on the weekends." That sort of thing. You're story is a "classic" one and someone at alanon will know how to help. Take care.

[To Trish from Kate]

Lea, I know what you are going thru. Been there done that. My ex-boyfriends drug of choice was crack. Two months ago I broke all ties with him. He put me thru hell. Now that I have taken a step away from the situation, I can say I now realize how sick he had made me. All the lies, the cheating, the stealing, the using and lies to cover up the using. I wanted to believe in him so bad. I thought if he really loved me he would get himself together. I still love him with all my heart, but I had to walk away for my own sanity, before he drug me down with him. I know he will probably end up dead, but I did everything I could do for him. I spent over $40,000.00 in a year trying to get him clean, only to see him go right back to it the first chance he got. I supported him mentally, emotionally, and financially the whole time we were together. I put everything on the line for him. I was the co-dependent queen, tried to fix everything, anything unpleasant
I would take care of it. Now I'm the one suffering depression and taking Zoloft. I am not strong enough to bury him, but I can say I did everything for him I possibly could have. It's up to the addict to want to get clean. I am not one to give advice, but please take care of yourself and your kids first, and keep the lines of communication open if you decide to boot him out.
Maybe that is what it will take. Good Luck to all.

[John]

Lea, I'm not sure on the relationship part.  I am married with 2 children (sounds like a TV shoe?).  I have been on Lortab for 3 years (6 per day), just came off 4 days ago,...it is tough...but I think I can make it!  As for as the sex, relationship and BONDING goes...hang in if you can.  NO PHYSICAL ABUSE..OK.  But work with him and help.  Trust me, we need all the help we can get to get off this.  As with averyone, we just want to be normal an love the one who stands with us.  This can be difficullt but in the long run, maybe, just maybe, we can start without having some substance take our life over.  I hope everything works out.  Be patient, talk (as in group therapy)..1 on 1 if need too.  And remember, I'm just starting this, I've read on it, but, we WILL get through it.  If you need to e-mail me, I'm at ***@****.  We go through this..and it hurts (physically and mentally).  But, I'ts not forever...we will regain our lives...The best is with you two.  I hope this helps...he, and YOU are not alone.

Hope you 2 get get on track...remember, he will be cranky!

[susanlea]

thank you, and everyone on this forum for your support.  things have improved a little. he appears to be ok.  he's been alot nicer lately.  let's see what the next week brings. one day at a time. good luck

[Dr. Natvig]

It will make his **** shrink. He's ******.

[susanlea]

wouldn't know, haven't been able to see it for over a year, when I said things were getting better, all I meant was he's not so edgy and angry all the time.  I have a feeling it will be alot longer before there's any intimacy.  It's taken a long long time to get where he was, I figure it will take a long time for him to find his way back.  I just pray he stays on the right path.  He's relapsed several times after in house detox, hopefully this time he can make it.  If I'm right(and there's absolutely no way of knowing for sure)he's been clean for about a month again, he's already gone through the flu symtoms again(swears he really had the flu)  missed a couple weeks of work again.  We'll see, best wishes everyone, God bless.