When does life become normal after oxy, perc, tab, withdrawls?

[wifeofanaddict]

My husband is nearing the 14th day of being clean.  I am wondering when life will become normal again. Or will it every be normal again? Sometimes I feel like life was normal when my husband was looking for pills all the time, and snorting pills all the time.  Our life is different now, its better but its odd.  Its odd because our routine has changed, we have money now, we have noninterupted time together, the phone isn't ringing off the hook like it used to.  I am wondering will I get used to the quiet atmosphere in our house.  My husband gets so crazy sometimes trying to sleep(because its so quiet) he starts arguments with me.  Give me some advice, Please.
How do I deal with this and how do I help him deal with it?

Thanks,
wifeofanaddict

[hippy]

the are meeting's for famly member's of addict's
They are NARANON meeting's and ALANON meeting's.
your husband just getting clean is a great thing.
Every situation is differen't, but most addict's start getting better  fairly quick, tho we do complain. You know  we are doing good, when we stop complaining, get involved with other  addict's staying clean, and when we start to care about helping other addict's to stay clean. 14 day's is wonderful. somthing to be gratful for.
good luck

[Francoise]

How did he get off whatever he was on?

Francois

[mibunny]

Please, I urge you to follow the advice above.  If you have
problems finding your local NarAnon meetings contact your
local NA helpline.  14 days is only the beginning.

[IrishRose]

Hi wife- I'm a wife of one too as well as an addict myself. Finding an Naranon or if unavailable in your area, Alanon will provide you with information, help and support. "Normal" is a relative term. About the only way to get through is, trite as it may sound,is to take it a day at a time and do your best to take care of yourself during this stressful time and not get too sucked in. Much easier said than done I know. You obviously love your husband and to see him go through this is hell I know. Addicts are an impatient lot, I certainly am. When I gave up my loves, booze and valium, I thought okay I did this, I want my life back-NOW! I didn't destroy my life overnight and it took longer than that to salvage and repair it and many times I though, what's the use, this is soooooooooo hard.But it has been worth it. Now I am clean, my husband an addict as well, who was clean for a long time went through some horrendous medical problems and is now on Oxycontin for chronic pain. So again the dynamics change and it's tough but I guess I've learned I don't have to let myself be blown around by every little wind of change.His  recovery is his responsibility. Really the best way you can help is to do your best to take care of yourself. When you let that go you don't have anything to give to anyone else. You can be there for him, it sounds certainly like you are. Addiction and recovery from it puts the addict and family through lots of changes. The trouble sleeping is common and the longer one stays clean, awareness of all sorts of things happens. 14 days is indeed just the beginning, I or probably anyone else on this forum won't paint a rosy picture for you. It will be tough going for awhile. The hardest thing for me was all the expectations I had of what I wanted to happen and how soon I wanted them to happen. Recovery, your own or anyone else's rarely happens on the timetable you think it should. But there is hope, it sounds like he wants to be clean and he has you on his side so it sounds like you are off to a good start. Take care, keep us posted.

[GOD]

Hello to all you out there in the Barren weekend wasteland of the internet!

I say that because I usually don't look around here much on the weekends...... APARENTLY, most of you guys don't EITHER! I thought most of the posts came in on Saturdays and Sundays while we Laze around the livingroom computer... HaHa. Guess not.

Well, I guess I'll See you all on Monday around lunch..(that's when we all get bored at the job and look around, Right?!)

Have a GREAT Sunday, Everyone.

Peace & Thunderstorms-
|~~~~Jess~~~~|

[Francoise]

Hi IR

Are you the same IR that posts over on the New Addiction Forum on the EZBoard?

I must have missed that your husband is on oxy for chronic pain. So am I. How is your husband doing on the oxy? Is he OK? And are you OK with it? I know it can get out of hand too easily. Just wondering.

Francois

[IrishRose]

Hi Francois, Yep it's me, same old IR on ez board. I'm married to Skipper ( kip). You've been quite kind in sharing your oxy experience with both of us. He ( we) are doing okay. He's on 120mg per day with IR's for breakthrough. His pain doc just put him on Baclofen for the muscles spasms which seems to help but makes him feel loopy. As an addict myself watching someone in my household take a narcotic is tough, even though I know it is for chronic pain and like you, it enables him to have a life without horrendous pain most days. But my little addict's brain is always working, even though I know it is for chronic pain the fact that he gets to take drugs legit really gets to me some days. Makes no sense, I know, he is in godawful pain and would be miserable without it. Oxy has actually enabled us to have a life somewhat resembling what we had B.S. ( before surgery) we can walk, travel and have conversations that do not entirely revolve around pain. Hope all is well with you as well. Take care. IR.

[rowanshyne]

Baclofen is *horrible*.  It works better on my muscle spasms than anything else, but I can't carry on an actual conversation with anyone for *hours*.  In fact the last 10 mg. I took was over 14 hours ago and I still feel "fluffy".
The part about being an addict, but needing to take narcotics for pain is a real *****, too.
Every so often I *have* to suffer through withdrawal, just so the narcotics are effective for the pain.  If I don't go through withdrawal, I have to keep increasing the meds to toxic levels.
On a couple of other threads I've mentioned what a pain in the butt it is to watch my husband and brother take strong pain meds "normally".  The meds *always* work for them (as pain relief), and they *never* go through withdrawal!  The boys are lucky they're so nice, or I'd be forced to pour ice water on them when I can't sleep because of restless "body" and they're both sawing logs!

BB,
Wren

[Francoise]

You know, way back before I sustained all those injuries, I would sometimes get my hands on a Percodan or something. Maybe it was for some dental work, or for instance I had to have a melanoma removed from my chest and was given a bunch of Perc. Or maybe a friend had a couple of dozen and gave me three or four. I would take 'em, and when they were gone, that was that. I didn't got out looking for more. I guess I was sort of a druggie opportunist. I would go for months, years, without even a milligram of any kind of opiate.

Now I always said that if I had a lot of money and a source, I'd be dangerous on the downers, the opiates. I look back on those statements today and laugh at myself. And now I read your post about envying your husband the pain meds.

Well, here I am today, three and a half years post near-death injury, taking 100 mg oxy twice a day just so I can put one foot in front of another and think to myself how foolish I was to make those kinds of statements.

I've had only one bad experience with oxy, and that was when I was using it for breakthrough nearly every day for months and suddenly stopped. You may remember me mentioning 8 months of deathly depression. I could have returned to taking the extra 20 mg each day, but that would have been a slippery slope. And I would have had to admit failure to my wife, my doctor, and myself. So I gutted it out for the 8 months, and now I'm ok and taking the oxy just as it is prescribed. I will no doubt be on this the rest of my life. It's scary.

Anyway, I do hope you continue controlling your urges to perhaps get into your husband's pain meds. It's a soul killer. I don't know if you have children, but I've heard so many women talk about how painful it is to give birth, but how it's immediately forgotten just the instant the baby is placed in their arms for the first time. I think addicts are like that. They remember how good the opiates feel, and forget all the pain associated with them. Even after my experience, I find myself thinking about how nice a crushed oxy would feel. Then I force myself to remember the 8 months of pure hell. And I forget the crushed oxy and have a nice, cold Coke (-ca-Cola)!!

The grass always seems greener over there where your husband is, but look at what he has to go through for it. And I can tell you from experience - there's NO HIGH in an oxy when you're on them for pain. There's that chance at having a life again, just as you have said. Wise; you're very wise to remember that.

I guess I'm being preachy, but I don't mean to be. I just saw your comment and it made me remember how cocky I was pre-injury. I didn't know what I was talking about then. I do now. Wisdom certainly can come at a very high price sometimes, can't it?

Love to You and to all,
Francois

[IrishRose]

Francois- I don't think you are being preachy at all. It is a point well taken. Kip says to me often, "I never thought what I would do if I acutally NEEDED drugs like these". I hope I don't  ever need them, curiousity has killed this cat a couple of times. I am truly grateful for what I have today in terms of being clean, I guess I don't think of him or anyone on pain meds former addict or not as "unclean". He struggles with it from time to time as you know. You seem to have a good sense of where you are and where you need to be with Oxy and I do admire that. It doesn't rule your life, it allows you to have one. We enjoyed reading your post about putting your Oxy's in the freezer, he utilizes a safe deposit box for the same thing. Our house got broken into last spring and all they took was cash and Oxy,left computers and other toys alone!
     Well it's tax day, if I were still drinking I would be off to drown my sorrows, instead we are going to drive down to Kansas City today, eat some good barbeque, shop, listen to some live music. I'm stopping by the post office on my way out of town,  I always make them wait til the very last friggin day. I'd actually wait til midnight too except I plan to still be out having fun by then hope. Blessings to you.
IR

[zoe1]

Hi wife~
I have to agree with the previous advice you've been given and very strongly suggest that you find some support group meetings for yourself.  There are not Nar-Anon meetings in my city, so I attend Al-Anon on a regular basis.  It is a real lifesaver for me!!  

I have been where you are now.  I know what it is like when he hits 14 days and start hoping for everything to be "normal" again.  That just isn't the case. There have been some major changes in your life so far and I'm sure there will be many more.  When a person stops using drugs or alcohol, it doesn't "fix" everything like we're hoping it will.  As you've already found, the can become rather unpleasant to be around when they are going through their own struggles.  This is the time for you to focus on taking care of yourself...

You may want to check out http://naranon.com/forum/.

[hippy]

I found this list on the net.

anxiety
nervousness
sweating
restlessness
weakness
weakness
nausea
chill's
fatigue
insomina
panic attack's
muscle spasam's
stiffness
jittery
difficultiy swalling
sensitive to noise
pin's and needle's in hand's, arm's , leg's
DEPRESSION
irritable
memory loss
prone to bout's of crying.
I think i have experenced all of the above in the last few year's , i was in the dark about most of them .
So are there more.

[wifeofanaddict]

Thank you all for the info I appriciate it greatly.  
Francoise to answer your question, he was on oxy200mg or percs 150mg or tabs 150mg everyday.  He was not prescribed anything!  On easter sunday he decided to stop because we were broke and I was sick of it (I guess he was too). So the next day (monday) he was at home doing bad.  We stayed at his mothers house for 8 days while he detoxed. He threw up had the shits and couldn't remember anything for 3 days the only thing that helped him stop shaking was clonidin a bp med that the doc prescribed.  The next sat. 6 days into detox he had to go to the doc and get fluid for dehydration.  And the doc prescibed him sonata for sleep. Which didn't help a lot.  He is doing a little better now he is on his 16th day.  He wants to snort a lortab on occation because he doesn't think he'll have a problem with that (I know better, he's an addict) so far he hasn't. I keep trying to talk him out of it. To him Lortab is the gateway drug to oxy's.

Thanks you all!

[rowanshyne]

Yes, and then there's my personal favorite that awful feeling in your limbs where you just have to move them or it won't stop.  Keeps me from resting at all.
I think you folks have called it "Restless leg", or "Restless limbs".  For me it isn't painful, just really, really oogy.

wife of ...
I wish your husband would come on this board, or go to NA or something.  As long as he doesn't he can keep "fooling" himself. Like the lortab snorting.  A great many of us are here *just* because of lortabs (hydrocodone).  I'll bet he already knows this, he just thinks *you* don't know, maybe?
It is extremely addictive.  It doesn't matter how he's getting it into his blood stream - shooting up, snorting, swallowing.
He's making excuses to you, at the very least, and probably himself, too.
*You can't make him stop*.  The only thing you can control is *you*.  Get thee to an Al-anon, lady.

I've been on both sides of the addiction fence - User and co-dependant.  You really need help of your very own, m'dear.
I'm so glad you found these boards.  I hope we can ease things for you a little.

I'm warming up to go through my own detox.  I'm scared, frankly.  I've come off of Vicodin before, but never after taking so much for so long.  I'm weaning down, will find some way to obtain Buprenex, and I'm reading every single one of these posts.  Over, and over and over.
Thank you *all* so much for your presence in my life.  I hope I can return to each of you what you've given me, including the kick start I got when I tripped over this board a few days ago.  You've given me the drive to do what's been in the back of my head.  Now it's in the front.  

Thank you again.
Wren

[dunit]

I feel for you, what you are going thru is probobly equal to what he is---and like you now know,it's only the beginning.
The Withdrawal time frame seems to depend on 1) how much you were taking and 2) for how long 3) if he has ever tried quiting before. (most people don't make it the first time they try)
If he was taking all of the above *oxys included, I would guess he has a fairly long term /highdose addiction--if it includes 1-2 years of oxy abuse 80-200 mg a day then your in for a ruff ride.
Iv'e read and heard it takes about 30 days to rid your body of any trace of the hydrocodone or oxycodone--the 1st week you sleep, the next 3 you can't,that just makes it so much worse. If you can get the Dr. to perscribe a sleep med like soma or zanax--a 2 wk supply only--and only YOU know where the pills are! That would help, but be careful they are also addictive and must be used in moderation (we addicts are realllll good about getting the co-dependents to give us just one of the pills that are hidden -"PLEASE"
The depression comes after the sleep sets in , that lasts, from experienve and reading this foram about 30 days for each year you were addicted to oxys-- an SRI (anti depressant) will probobly help, but I truly belive if he is going to make it , he will need to start going to NA ir AA meetings and like the others have said YOU need to go to a meeting and meet others who are going thru the same thing and experts who will help you understand what he is up against. It's going to be hard for both of you, but you will probobly have to be the tuff one and will have to grit your teeth and take some **** andfor sure listen to some anger.
It is a blessing for him that he has a wonderful wife who has stuck with him and is now going to help him thru the next year.
Someone to hold him,comfort him and help him through this truly awful time. If you give all you can AND expect nothing back for 6 months, things will start getting back to normal.
There is also a detox med called Bupernex, it can be hard to find and it is injected. It is a wonderful drup to help during the real ruff 1st month or two (but not more than that it's addictive too.) Good luck to you. You must have a beautiful heart--mabey when your husband is feeling better he would like to post--it helps a lot, thepeople her are the best
God bless you, keep the faith.

[hippy]

12 day's cold turkey , things are going ok.
IM just taking the receipe, it's working great for me.
I think anyone who tries it should do it for a whole week.
Like it is suggested. I know my wife is the type of person
who would try it for 1 or 2 day's and give up on it and say it did not work. Give yor self a break and try it as suggested.
Any way on my 4th day taking it i started to have feelings like i have not had for years. I was driving my car and the song's on thr radio sounded better, the tree's and nature it self  seemed to be comming alive. because i have been so numb for so long, Im somentally and emotionaly
uplifted, i just wanted to get out of my car go play frisbee.
For me a 43 year old grandfather these type of feelings have been far removed for the last 4 year's.
thanks to skipper and everyone who turned me on to this recipe.
Also thank,s to all for sharing thier struggles an pain and also theier hopes. I truly am grateful. I am a hard core addict went to my 1st NA meeting in 1975 back then i got 6 months , when the spring time came everyboby used , so did i, i thought i would be back to meeting's in a week or two. But it was like an under tow
Iwas gone for 8 years.
i heard some one asking about normal people , I was told one time
the definition of a normal person was ONE PERSONALTY OR LESS.
Well that's not me.
Most addicts are the best at somthing, like the very best.
What are you the best at.
most addicts are collector's ,what do you collect.
addiction is either ONE EXTREEM OR THE OTHER.
MY wife once siad to me 10 reasons why addicts USE.
1 I HATE MYSELF
2 I HATE MYSELF
3 I HATE MYSELF
AND SO ON
My dad is 75years old  an has 35 years sober in aa
his sponser has 47 years sober. my  dad had new job evrey 6 months for years his sponser had the same job for 40 years =
ONE EXTREEM OR THE OTHER.

[falulah]

i am in the process of helping my best friend kick his oxy habit, and i am scared, and not really sure what to do to help him.  i know later today, he is going to start getting really really sick, and i just want to know if anyone knows what i can do to help out what he is going through

[hippy]

quiting oxcotin can be most difficult.
How much was he taking. can he taper down , or is he set on just quiting cold turkey.

If he is just going to quit , he needs to get a vitamaine called l-TYROSINE take 8 500mg tab a day the first week.
take 2 B-6 tabs
cal maginsuim   and a multi vitamin
zinc
copper
vit. a and vit c

                    THE TYROSINE AND B6 seem to be the most imoortant.  
if he get the runn's get some imodium (immodium) asap. so he does not lose all the nutreints in his body. if that happens  it is quite painful     PS and read all the post through this site

[falulah]

thank you for getting back to me.  he wants to just quit cold turkey, but cant be sick and miss work, so we are trying to find out the best way to do it.  he is up to about 60 mg a day, but also has taken some dilladin pills.  and idea what would be the best way to go about this?

[hippy]

stay positive ,keep posting and read all the post you can.
we are all here for ya, we are all traveling down this rocky road
together.  your in my prayers .  
                                        michael.

[slikss]

I have been taking Vicodin for about 2-3 years...500 mg...between 4-6 tabs daily.  I am taking them for the pain associated with fibromyalgia.  I started doing some research and realized how addictive they are.  So, now the struggle of coming off of them.  After reading all the posts, I am not sure what to expect.  I am going to taper down...taking three tabs a day.  Any other suggestions?  Thanks in advance.


Sandy

[hippy]

after you   taper down you can expect withdrawl symptoms
body aches , general diccomfort, depression, lack of energy.
the runs and more. you can find more info throughout the fourm.
Im clean 16 day,s and ive been taking imodium (immodium) for the run's
drinkink a lot of water.
im taking the reciepe as advised on this fourm.
L-tyrosine 8 aday the 1st week then 3 a day week 2.
along with 2 tab's of b-6 a day
cal/magnisum. vit A / vit c/ copper/magnese/zinc.
well it's been a life saver for me. I take banna's for leg spasam's they contain potasiumand a natraul source of l-tyrosine.
gatorade is good to help replenish any lost electolites due to the runs.
another problem is  the inabilty to get any sleep, once you stop taking all med's.  
good luck and really give it  a 100% it works.    peace.

[slikss]

Thanks so much for your reply.  I will give it a good try.  This is day two of tapering....have had a headache...just kind of not feeling well....but I know with God's help I can lick this.

Thanks....Sandy

[hydrojet]

well here i go again. just cant seem to stay off the pain med no matter how hare i try. I am so tired of lying to family and friends. I just want to give it all up and quit trying. if i stay in on the stuff at least i know what i will be doing the next day. I know i dont make sense right now i'm so upset. is there anyonw who can help me? all i want to do is get high and stay there. is there any hopw for a helpless addict as me? I am tired of trying.

[freesinceapril15]

I went through a rapid detox last week, and am finding the emotional recovery much more trying than the detox, which I simply slept through.  

Now, I cry incessantly, feel worthless, and don't want to leave my house.  I am currently taking effexor for depression, but it doesn't seem to be helping.  My couch and I have become very close - I don't leave it.  I have even forgotten to feed my daughter lunch on two occassions (she reminded me, thank God).

Please help me.  When will life be normal again?  Sometimes I think it was easier on the vicodin/lorcet, as I didn't feel like a useless idiot, incapable of doing a thing.

Also, if anyone has a list of the side effects of withdrawals following detox (be them physical, emotional, or psychological), I would greatly appreciate it.  My family believes that I am screwed right up and still withdrawing and therefore threatening to fight for custody of my daughter, who is generally VERY well taken care of.

Please help.

Desperate

[hippy]

hey atake it easy.
ive been cold turkey for 17 days , im taking the receipe.
the #1 ingredent is l-tyrosine  3 tab a day and b6 2 a day and a multi vit c and vita a an zinc .but the l-tyrosine and b6 seem to been buffering out the depression and most of the withdrawl
symptom's.  I hope you try it.  
If you have the run's make sure you take imodium (immodium), the runs will deplete you system of all nutreints.drink plenty of water.

AS far as withdrawl symptoms

DEPRESSION
FATIGUE
WEAKNESS
CHILLS
MUSCLE SPASAMS IN LEGS
NERVOUSNESS
STIFFNESS
ANXITY
THE RUNS
INSOMINA  
the 1st 3 days are the hardest ,but  the vatimins really help
Take a strong multi to. and I take slimfast because of all the nutreints in it , it seem to help.

[hippy]

just keep trying , try the receipe, im sure it will help.
keep trying no matter how you feel. our hope is with you,
we are all going throuh it , you are not alone
read all the post and keep posting. your closer thsn you think.
don't stop trying.     peace

[groovygirl]

hi - if you are taking the meds for a medical reason and are taking them as prescribed, why would you want to come off them.  if you are doing everything as directed, you may have developed a physical dependance to them but not be an addict.  do you ever take them for the sole purpose of feeling good - not for pain?  i think that is when you realize you have a problem.

[Mace]

Addiction: compulsive need for and use of a habit-forming substance (as heroin, nicotine, or alcohol) characterized by tolerance and by well-defined physiological symptoms. Even those of us that take their meds only as directed and for pain are addicts. Ask anyone who has been taking oxycontin for over a year if they would skip a scheduled dose if their pain level was low. Pain is the monster and opiates are the demons. We try to control the demons to fight the monster.  In a perfect world we would have neither.

[ABU22]

Hello All
I have A lot of trouble anyway from dibeties I take two insulin shots a day of Humlin 70/30 and suffer from Neuropathy and siatica nerve problems and taking 120 mg oxy four Loritab 10 a day want to quit but my legs are allready killing me WHAT CAN I DO

Its hard for me because i am a diabetic....

[groovygirl]

i've done a lot of research on this...plus i know several people who take oxycontin as prescribed for pain.  there is a difference between physical tolerance and addiction.  anyone taking narcotics will become physically tolerant and need larger amounts over time to get the same effect - they will do this as prescribed.  

"This is what distinguishes the pain patient who is tolerant to and physically dependent on morphine, from the addict who is also tolerant to and physically dependent on heroin. Both are self-administering an addictive drug several times a day. But while the addict takes his drug to get high, "mellow out," and largely avoid life, the pain patient takes his drug to get on with life.

This apparently subtle distinction between the contingencies surrounding drug use lead to a remarkably different outcome for these two different kinds of users. Heroin addicts are lost to themselves, to their families, and to society. Not only can't they work, but they are almost certainly engaged in criminal activity, and they are at high risk of a variety of infectious diseases, including hepatitis and AIDS. Indeed, intravenous drug users have become the major vector for the spread of AIDS into the heterosexual community in this country. Current estimates are that more than 55% of addicts in New York City are HIV positive. (16)"

"Pain patients, by contrast, couldn't be more different. Being on an opioid allows them to interact with their families, to get out of hospitals, and to go back to work. Indeed, their efforts to maintain their health are in marked contradiction to the utter disregard addicts show for their health. If we wish to equate addicts with pain patients, the more appropriate comparison is with the under treated pain patient."

"Because of the meaning of drugs in an addict's life, drug addiction is a chronic, relapsing condition. Because of the very different meaning of drugs in a pain patient's life, drug addiction rarely, if ever, occurs after opioid use has stopped.

"The conclusions of this discussion are clear: (a) dependence and addiction are not equivalent to each other; (b) patients who become dependent on opioids during the course of medical therapy rarely become addicted to those drugs; and (c) in managing pain with opioids, there is little need to fear addiction.

Tolerance to opioids is rarely a problem because it is possible to continuously increase the dose. Dependence is only a concern when prescribing drugs with antagonist properties and in managing withdrawal."

[lanas]

Honestly, in my own experience, the hardest part is yet to come, but YOU CAN DO IT.  I quit in February (with one very short set back that I don't even count against myself).  It took me almost 8 weeks to begin to feel more normal again.  This apparently is much more extreme than what most people experience, so you proably won't have to wait this long.  However, everyone tried to tell me that I needed to "get up and do something, anything."  Well, all I could think was that I could hardly get up out of the chair to walk 2 feet to get the remote for the TV, how the heck was I supposed to "Do something?"  But you know what?  Everyone was right.  I found that when I DID do something, I DID feel better--oh it didn't take it all away, but I did do better.  Do I miss the energy I had with the vicoprofen?  yes.  But am I enjoying not being irritiable?  YES.  Am I enjoying not worrying every day where the next script is coming from?  YES.  Am I enjoying knowing that I am clean now?  YES.  I look better and am really feeling better--and it is one of the hardest things I have ever done in my life.  And you know, I thought of something about a week ago that really hit home to me...  I'm an attorney and have represented a few clients on death row.  Now these guys stay in a small cell 23 hours a day.  They are let out one hour a day (which is when they are also expected to shower, make phone calls, etc.)  Twice a week, they get to go outside.  And here I am, whining and feeling sorry for myself because I don't want to have to go anywhere or even get out of my chair to cook dinner.  Perhaps not the best analogy, but it made me realize that I started abusing these drugs and that I can get my life back--and if takes some pain, then it takes some pain.  A couple of months is really nothing in the whole scheme of life.  Hang in there, it gets better--and for most people, it gets better after only a few weeks.

[Mace]

I understand and appreciate your comments concerning addiction, and by no means do I pretend to understand the dynamics of addiction, however I don’t believe most of the people who post on this site reflect your opinion when you say.... “Not only can't they work, but they are almost certainly engaged in criminal activity” but I am sure they will admit to being addicts.
I can only speak of what I know and live. I agree for short term pain management the risk of addiction is very low. I suffered through cancer at an early age (20) and lived three years of treatments including several operations and some chemotherapy from hell. During the highest pain episodes I took 100mg Demerol every 4 hours. After the cancer went into remission I put up the Demerol and never looked back, in fact in my mind I equated the Demerol with the cancer. I had very little contact with any drugs, medically or recreational, for the next 10 years. Then the back injury. Even though I take the Oxy as prescribed, 3x 40mg per day, after almost 4 years I have little doubt that I am addicted to the drug. Those that say I am only opiate dependant and not an addict do not understand what 4 years of opiate use does to a person. Call it what you will but withdraw from opiates cares little for labels. When you are kicking 4 years of 120mg a day oxycodone cold turkey, does it matter how you got to that place? Maybe withdraw is not the only symptom of an addict, but I will wager any addict will confirm that withdraw is in the top 2! Im sure we all agree that the bottom line is that everyone who needs help or support should ask for it regardless of how they became addicted.

[groovygirl]

criminal activity can also come in the form of dr. hopping, which many on this forum have experience with.  lying about pain to your dr. is also not right, but most of us have done it.  more than a few here have talked about going thru friend's, family's and stranger's medicine cabinets - that's stealing.  i'm not judging ANYONE here - i am guilty of all of the above.

my point is that people who are on medication for a real pain condition, and they are taking it as prescribed, should not be made to feel that they are doing something wrong or should they lable themselves as addicts.  part of the big problem is that people with real pain are having a harder and harder time getting what they need because of people like me...addicts, who abuse the system to get what they need.  there needs to be a distinction between the two...i'm making my point - you are making yours.  that's what is great about this country - freedom to speak!

[oh please already]

clap  clap   clap -  well said - clap   clap  clap

[Hinkster]

groovy girl very well written and good solid reading.

ABU22
Theres not much you can do (boy do I hate sayig that cause I'am
in the very exact boat.) Was running low on my meds this week so I started on the receipe. Well I ended up eating all of my L-tyrosine so now I'am out of those I think they might have helped.
In a pinch you can try Neurontin you will have to tritate yourself up to pretty high doses but they seem to do okay. I'd love
to help you but I just can't and its killing me cause of all the
grear people in these forums who bust their buts to help and care about
people like you and I.
Good luck I sure hope something works out.
Tom

[oh please already]

a confession-ive been using the recipe and have to say even coming down from 200 plus oxy i didnt feel so bad,i was amased and yet today i put those little ---- pills back in my mouth,i think i have to find a life to fill up all the haze ive been living,it was not that i felt sick just so lost,i didnt know how to fill all the awake,alert time i found,I wasnt that tired and yet i didnt know what to do,i am so confused i discust myself.how can i be so stupid and just so dumb?What the hell am i doing

[oh please already]

I am an idiot-dont listen to me,How conceted can i be to think i know what i am talking about when i cant even do right by me and mine-

[angst]

Why were you on oxy's to begin with?  Do you have chronic pain?
I have not searched the archives, so forgive my ignorance.  I lead a pretty active life.  I am a non-using addict, who is on methadone and xanax, and yes I work.  I am a productive member of society.  I've paid social security since I was 14 years old.  Guess you could call me a functioning addict, even when I had the chronic vascular headaches.  I hurt my family the most and myself.  A lot of us do not think enough of ourselves to say we hurt ourselves.  Hang in there.  If you keep trying, you will get it right.  I have anxiety attacks from ptsd and borderline personality d/o.  I like to call my concept of normal acute awareness.  It is not like life was when I was a child.  It is much more surreal.  I will take it over the alternative.

[hippy]

don't give up ,just because you slipped.
now you know the receipe is for real.
keep posting the truth. divine intervention is the biggest
part of this getting clean process  
your in our prayers keep us in your's ,we need them too.

get yourself an angel for your shoulder, my angel's name is david
because i still have giant's that need slaying
i'll send him over to watch over tou and your's.
                                                    peace/love/and comfort.  take it easy on yourself
your just begining like the rest of us.
see if yoy can find a dail;y meditation book.

[Mace]

I apologize for taking up space on this page for something as trivial as wether a person that takes opiates for pain over a long period of time becomes addicted. Thank you Groovy for agreeing to disagree. I see a lot of pain on this page, but also a lot of courage and strength. My thoughts and prayers go out to all those brave soles who are facing the trials of withdrawal.

[groovygirl]

i never said it was trivial - it's a valid question.  it was the way you responded that got to me.  no harm done - like you said, we can agree to disagree.

[angst]

When i was in treatment, off all drugs, in a state of extreme anxiety, i did not have a divine experience.  I had a heart attack, a real M.I.  I am spiritual since I have my life and psyche back somewhat.  I know the methadone and xanax make me feel normal.  I will detox again off the methadone when the cravings are lessened.  I am strong and mean when it comes to picking up again.  The psychotrophic drugs-xanax and trazadone-seem essential for my disorders.  The only benzo I cannot take is valium.  I tried it at a treatment center, and I became so depressed that I wanted to die.  I left the Club Med of treatment centers.  I found my divine power inside myself.  Sometimes it is that unconscious will to survive when I've prayed to die.  Other times it is a precious holiness I cannot explain to anyone else.  My higher power did not get me into drugs, and I had to get myself out of that environment and mind set.  When I was weak in body, I was strong spritiually.  I went though so much gut wrenching guilt.  I felt worthless. I thought everyone would be better off without me - that was totally irrationally thinkiing.  Then, I started slowly to find the higher power I had opened my heart for many, many years ago.  Guess what, it was still there with open arms.  I've had to do
a lot of work on myself to feel worthy of a divine power.  I guess you could say I have thought very little of myself at times with good cause.  Relapses have taught me more than I wanted to know.  Thanks for sharing.

[groovygirl]

wow - your post was amazing.  i really feel that i truly know where you are coming from.  but, i don't have that faith that you seem to possess...i've yet to find my "higher power" - i'm not even sure what that means.  i'm not a religious person, but i don't think a higher power is necessarily about god.

i have plenty of reasons to live...and live a healthy life.  i tell myself that all the time, but it doesn't stop the destructive behaviour.  i'm not sure what i need to "see the light" - do i have to lose everything to get there?

i'm still on the buprenex taper....but the day i stop for good is the scariest thing in the world to me.

[angst]

I understand your apprehension regarding the end of your taper.
I was ready to detox off methadone the first time, and stayed clean for 6 months.  That is not a lot to many people, but it was for me.  Methadone works for me.  I also do not have the option of the buprenex detox.  Can you talk to the nurses or doctor at the buprenex clinic?  Tell them you are not ready to detox yet.  If you have reservations about staying clean, you have to do something sure.  Do you go to NA?  A home group might help keep you clean 24 hours at a time.  It is hard for me because I do not exactly believe in the 12 step method.  Lossing my will and choice is like losing myself.  Today I choose not to pick up.  I am strong and mean when it comes to drugs.  I was battered enough during my years of chronic pain and legitimate use and illicit use after that.  Methadone saved my life this time.  I surely will not stop until I am ready.  I have a doctor's appt. this morning.  Gotta go for now.  Good luck.  You can make it with the right help and your own strength.  Angst

[falulah]

my friend is trying really hard to quit oxys, or so he is letting me believe, he also has a dilauded problem, and he is trying to ease his way out of everything, but i am not sure how to help him do this the best way possible.  he is thinking about quitting the oxy al together and just doing the didauded to keep him from getting really sick, but i don't know anything about these dilaudeds, and i don't really think he does either.  he is down to about 40 mg of oxy every other day, and is about to try and cut to 20s, every other day.  is this doing ANYTHING?!?

[angst]

Dilaudid took me away from everything and everybody.  Dilaudid was my family, lover, and god.  It is stronger than morphine and almost anything except good heroin and opium itself.  Oxy's are bad, because oxycodone is not meant to be shot.It does not come in an injectable form.  Dilaudid does. The pills are water soluble.  The high from oxy's lasts longer, but the kick is not as strong as with d's.  A lot of people are on methadone or buprenex to kick oxy's and dilaudid.  Other brave souls are using the recipe and kicking on their own cold turkey.  Depending on how much your friend is using, it could be dangerous for him to kick cold turkey.  This sight has good advice.  Listen to some of the others.  Go back and read what they have to say.   Good Luck with the friend.  Remember - he has to want to do it.  You cannot heal him.

[brandy girl]

i don't have a comment, i have a question.  My husband has chronic back pain and has been given (legally by, as we call him, Dr. Feelgood)norco, duragesic patch 75 mg, duragesic "lollipops", neurontin, elavil, meprobamate, soma, and he washes them all down with a couple of cases of beer a week.  he takes approximately 12-15 norco a day, 4 neurontin, 6 or 8 soma, 4 or 6 meprobamate, 2 or 3 elavil.  Is is me, or should his Dr. be shot?

[rowanshyne]

All those drugs at *once*?! Your husband's Dr. should be shot, but with any luck you can sue him for malpractice.
Your husband needs to see another Dr. ASAP, hopefully a pain specialist.
There may be other circumstances I'm not aware of, but on the surface, this looks frightening.

Wren

[groovygirl]

hi - is your husband actually prescribed that amount of pills per day? it's hard to believe a dr. would prescribe 15 norco and 8 somas...and, does he recommend washing them all down with beer? if that is the case, he should be shot. otherwise, it sounds like your husband is the one with the problem, and he's killing his liver...norco and booze do not mix.

what really bugs me is when people become addicts...have been lying to their doctors and then turn around and sue them for malpractice.  that's a huge reason why people with real chronic pain cannot get what they need...doctors have become so paranoid and with good reason in many cases.

maybe this doc is too liberal with the meds, but your husband isn't being forced to take them.  we, as addicts, really need to take some responsibility for what we've become and stop blaming the medical world.  no one puts a gun to our heads and tells us to take 30 pills in a day...

sorry if i'm coming off sounding bitter, but i do have chronic pain, and i have learned that many docs have been screwed royally by their pain patients...blaming and taking them to court just makes it all the more impossible for those who really need the meds.

[angst]

groovygirl hit the nail on the head when she said we addicts and chronic painers have to be responsible for what we are taking.  if we allow ourselves the comfort of not feeling anything, we will have to suffer the consequences.  they will come.  then we want to blame the doctors, the meds, anyting but ourselves for taking them when we knew it was too much.
A pain specialist-usually an anesthesiologist who specializes in pain control-may be just what you need.  They often try to keep you at the lowest amount of drugs you have to have to function.
Good Luck.

[rowanshyne]

Frankly, that was stupid. My response I mean.

Wren

[Lostgirl]

I total of 24 hours has gone by!  I hate it already.  After two years of Lortab and cough medicine.  I have become addict.  It didn't start that way.  I was sick with the flu and the cough medicine.  After the while the cough stuff didn't work and I was already taking the Lortab for migraines and back pain.  Maybe one in the evening.  Then it got to be I took it as soon as I got up, let's not even mention the vodka I was drinking straight out of the bottle.  I had the forthought to stop drinking the vodka but I kept rationalizing the Lortab.  It made it feel okay for me to go out in public and be accepted.  I was the like fo the party and I wasn't even drinking.  It was courage in a bottle.  My last relaitonship did a real number on my self esteen.  (Quess what he did for a livinging?  Dr. Feelgood DO)He gave me the Zoloft and other antidepressants. Though I found out that he gave them to all of his other women when they got close to figuireing out he was having affairs left and right. But back to now.  I was getting RX for 200 10mg.  When I realized that I had taken all of them before the end of the month.  I decided to try to taper off.  FORGET THAT!!!  There was always that adidict rationalization to get youto take it.  

The hardest part (besides actually typing this ! Hands are not working so well..LOL)is that I should know better.  My two ex-husbands are both drug addicts.  Coke seem to be there drug of choice.  My biological father and his family are funcitoning alchoholics.  I can understand the people that don't want to tell anyone.  My regular Doc trusted me and I lied to him.  Stole from families and friends.  

I really am at a lose,  I am having several symptoms of withdrawl.  But I am not sure that I can get to the Pharm.  to buy your so called Cocktail. Can't stop crying.   I really get worried what will happen to my children if I do get this under control.  And what do I do with the pain?  I have not got any work done in the last week.  My mother is useless in helping.  She is such a control freak.  I can totally see why people commit suicide over this.  though in my house that is not an option.

What do I do now?

LostGirl

[Hinkster]

The first thing I would do is try posting more towards the top.
People are more apt to see it and will help you. The people
around here do not care if you so call hijack a thread. That is
really trivial here. All of the people who post are your friends
and would love to do anything possible to help you but they have
to see it first. So jump right in. Good luck.
Tom

[lfrankbaum]

having started to come off of it ,after a 1yr hx of oxcocet, and decades of codeine; i guess i am doing all right..hot flushes have minimalized; i guess the reason i felt i had to start was that my children are still young, and we want  more children; what is embarassing is how i convinced myself i was a better person on meds than off; and as well that i felt that i was a non-addict as i did not like to drink...it is so hard to call one's self what one is AN ADDICT, yet have to keep it a secret as i could lose my job ,family, friends, even while i actually recover...making it harder to recover; BUT i must recover. it is nice to come to a forum where i can be honest. nothing can destroy self -esteem ( and hence continue the addiction cycle) more than trying to figure out who to lie to next to get the pills...i will be in touch .ask any questions, and thanx for listening

[Lostgirl]

Day three, still can't eat.  Doing this alone.  The kids don't like me very much.  A great lady from NA gave me some help to keep to a minimum.  But I can't keep yelling at my kids from the bathroom! I got my sense of humor back today.  I tried to talk to my sister long distance.  Is she ever out there!  What us working people would call a Millionaire's housewife that plays tennis and picks up dry cleaning and kids!  Hasn't worked a full time job in 10 yrs!  She is "trying to relate" to what I am going through!  What a laugh.  Today the worst was not the physical part....it was looking for that rather large bottle of Lortab that usally sits on my nightstand.  I just want one, but I don't!  Sounds weird.  Hickster:    As for posting closer to the top and "hijacking a thread"  I have no clue as how to do that.  I am not sure how I am going to go to work tomorrow.  Luckily it is here at home but I don't think that they realize have have don't nothing for over a month!  They are going to cut off the business electric and mine to boot.  I have no energy from the Xanax and the Lomotil.  Thank good in real life I have always hated Xanax!  Who wants to sleep through everything.  I used to be the life of the party with a couple of Lortabs down!  I know I am rambling.  Sleep is very hard.  Used to be that I would take a 1/4 pc of .5 Xanax and it would knock me out for atleast 12-14 hours!  now I am lucky for 6 tops. So where do i go from here?

[jonesing247]

Hello all, i just signed up, and i think its great how everyone here communicates and helps one another. Aside from the times when the drugs take over I've always found addicts (like myself) to be very compassionate and helpful people. Anyways, enough of that. I started taking percocets around this time last year. Id end up taking 7 or 8 at a time by then end of my percocet days. Then the graduation to Oxycontin 80mg. I started off in January with a 1/4 a day. Since about Feb/March I have been taking anywhere from 4 to 8 80mg pills a day, chewed of course. Considering that im flying through prescriptions of 60 within a week and a half, and running out of excuses to refill, I feel that I must taper down to quit. I was doing nothing until the past Monday when I started a job. I wanted to be clean before I started work, but that didnt happen. Im now taking 2 a day trying to taper down but im already feeling cold and miserable. Im 23 years old and i dont want to tell my parents my situation and ask them for money for rapid detox. How hard will this withdrawl be? And how should I go about doing it? Feeling cold, sweaty and irritable, sincerely,  Sleepless Mark.

[angst]

you are young.  if you can taper down and get something less potent to take you further down.  You can probably do this and work.  It will not be easy.  You'll need immodium ad and drink lots of gatorade.  there is another recipe, you can find it further up in the posts for a natural way of helping your body snap back quicker.  You can do it.  You could come clean with your doc, let him give you a cocktail of clonodine, a long acting benzodiazapine (be careful here-they are also addictive), and other things you may need to stay on the job.  it will not be fun but it is do-able.   Good Luck

[jonesing247]

Thanks for the advice angst....... what would you reccomend I jump down to? After 240-640mg of Oxycontin a day Ive been told that I really have no hope in hell. I dont know. Im just so confused and its pre-occupying my time thinking about this every waking hour. In the back of my head all I can think about is the coming storm. Should I just tell the boss and the parents I caught the flu and sit at home for 7 days or will this not work? Im not the type of person thats very brave.... I dont know if I could kick this and go to work at the same time, feeling depressed and lethargic. I mean, ive cut down to TWO 80mg oxy's a day and i feel like i am going through withdrawl. Some people are feeling harsh W.D.'s off Lortab......how am i going to possibly do this?

[angst]

if you can, get in touch with your doctor or an addition specialist, they can give you a schedule from which to taper, also a cocktail of meds that you need to detox.  i do not feel comfortable telling you where to taper at what time.  can you talk to your doctor?  if you want to get clean, you will not worry about him cutting you off of the drugs.  tell the doctor you are working and need to detox while you work.  it will be uncomfortable, but do-able, of that i am sure.  good luck and Blessings, Ava.

[oh please already]

There r ways,like you im amalso trying to quit an absurd amont of oxy 600- 800 plus- its amasing we r not both dead.ITS gonna suck but not as bad as u think,a few weeks ago i was ready to just quit- life i mean and then i found here and these people gave me the reason and hope to try-I tried tapering -ha ha ha ha ha,tried cold turkey-insane and then i started listening and that seem to be working- get the recipe- i was able to drop by half with very little discomfort-then i told my the cloadine was effective for me- it got rid of the skin crawls which i was haaving the most trouble with,then i told my doctors and there were a few to tell ,some were assholes and some were downright mean but one is helping- he gave me a fentyl patch and that controls the pain and withdrawl while at the same time breaking the cycle i had fallen into of reaching for a pill with each bump in life-when i have it on- between that and the clondine,most of the time pills dont cross my mind and i am finding it easier and easier to go longer between pills because i just dont need them- keep buzy  .I cant tell u yet how it will turn out because i still have a very long road to go,but i am down to 1/8 of the meds i was taking,not cutting my wrists and life is looking better without the drug haze. So take it one step at a time and it will work out  laura  keep posting and move to the top of the forum,your not butting in,and keep posting,sometimes it will take a while to get a response so shout up when u need help-you are worth it,MOVE TO THE TOP OF THE FORUM

[angst]

it sounds like you are doing better.  i am thankful, because i was worried about the slashing of wrists and thoughts like that.
please keep posting.  we need you.  i need you.  you have enough to deal with that husband of yours.  too bad that a few of us cannot get hold of him.  he better quit bossing you around.  you have a good head on your shoulders and you are doing well. do not let him bring you down.  your daughters need you more than his insecurities.  good luck and hang in there.  post and let me know how you are.  good luck and Blessings,  Ava

[hulio]

i am here to give hope to my m/fm addicts,i am going through withdrawl i tried it my own but i could not do it.i had to go to emergency,i was lucky they took me in i was taking 6oo mg of oxy a day for 3 years . before i wemt to the hospital i went to my doctor and he gave me clonidal, for give my spellingggg,the stuff made me flip out ,all it did mafe me sleep fore 20 mintes and make my withdrawl worse thats when i went to the hospital.i dont rember the first 2 days i was told by my girl i was out of it i hit her i hit the doctor they had to get  a sercity gard to watch me to keep me from leaving my room when i came out of it the third day i was told what i did ,there is no worse felling than not rembering what you did and hurting the people you love.they gave me adavin foor the three days and sent me home with a scrip of neurontin i take four 300mg tabs a day they are great no leg cramps at all.the rest is pretty mellow i feel crapy but that is a given,oxys are beyound brutal but can be beat one day at a time this is my 9th day as i am writing this letter .you cant sit around you must keep active its hard but it helps your body can take it push your self good luck .

[hulio]

is this .

[hulio]

im going through withdrawl

[hydromike]

i'm a new member/addict but iv'e read every letter and i like what i've read so far, good luck to all of us afflicted with this hell on earth