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When to start suboxone
I have read so many threads about waiting for 12 or 24 hours to start on suboxone but I have scored high enough on the COWS test to take it much sooner and have actually taken it after 6 hours with no problems and that's from taking almost 400 milligrams of oxycontin a day and a bunch of norcos. My body goes through opiates very fast. I would like to know if I am the only one that has been able to do this.
We all go through some form of guilt and regret, but that is not the sum of who we are. My therapy, meetings, specifically CBT, have helped me to not get tunnel vision or all-or-nothing thinking. Few things in life are all good or all bad, I believe no one is all bad. An exercise I did early on was make a list of all the good things about myself. I couldn't think of any at first. I kept thinking of my eyes rolling back in my head and convulsing while my kids cried and thought I was going to die. I kept focusing on how much I neglected my family and was self absorbed. So, I started off by talking to people and would write down any compliment I received. I couldn't feel it, but I had to get out of self-defeating thinking as much as self-centered thinking. If they perceive me a certain way, then it is true for them. Now that some time has passed, I can say without arrogance that I am trying my very best and have a lot of great qualities. My kids finally accept the new me and hold no grudges or anything against me, we all make mistakes. That did not happen quickly. I am making the best of what I have left, because focusing on what I missed out on or how I hurt people was killing me, and that was perpetuating the hurt I had caused others. It's okay to feel sad, but I still have some life left and I don't want to lose those things. It has not been easy, but my family is worth it. When I was shaking and crying on the lawn, getting sick all over myself in detox, I kept thinking, "This is the least I can do to honor those who put up with all my shortcomings for so long." It hurt like nothing I have ever felt, I suppose I felt like I deserved it. I also realized that my efforts prove I deserve to make the most of myself and give back to those I love. It has gotten easier to accept my life as it is, and in doing so, I am making my present better and better and am making the lives of those I love better too.
Try to stay in the moment, let the feelings come and go, make a list of reasons you are quitting. I bet you find some good qualities about yourself in that list. I will start off by saying you love and care so much that it breaks your heart you didn't do this sooner and you are truly sorry. That shows you are a loving person who cares about those still in your life. Focus on what you can change, rather than what you can't. Dig down deep and be the best you there is, even if you can't feel it. Keep being good and feeling good will follow.
Try to stay in the moment, let the feelings come and go, make a list of reasons you are quitting. I bet you find some good qualities about yourself in that list. I will start off by saying you love and care so much that it breaks your heart you didn't do this sooner and you are truly sorry. That shows you are a loving person who cares about those still in your life. Focus on what you can change, rather than what you can't. Dig down deep and be the best you there is, even if you can't feel it. Keep being good and feeling good will follow.
notbroken,
Don't beat ur self up friend. First..... No offense taken. I don't think u have been offensive at all. I hope I have not offended u. Secondly....we all need to look forward, not back. B thankful u have had some personal revelations n take action. But please understand the process. If u decide to taper off suboxone, recognize u have entered a marathon, not a sprint. This is the race won by the tortoise not the hare. We will support u thru the process so post often n read these posts often. They really do help.
Don't beat ur self up friend. First..... No offense taken. I don't think u have been offensive at all. I hope I have not offended u. Secondly....we all need to look forward, not back. B thankful u have had some personal revelations n take action. But please understand the process. If u decide to taper off suboxone, recognize u have entered a marathon, not a sprint. This is the race won by the tortoise not the hare. We will support u thru the process so post often n read these posts often. They really do help.
Thanks and thanks to every one. I am just very knew to all this foram stuff so I am sorry if I offend or say the wrong thing. Its a great big slap in the face when one realizes that you can fool all those around you for so long but you can never fool yourself and when I looked back and realized how much I have lost over my entire life and how much good in my life I could have done and how much I have wasted such a precious gift of having children OMG I am so ****** sad right now. I gotta go
Hi friend,
EvolverU could not have said it more appropriately. We r indeed here to show u support. But it would b dishonest of us if we didn't share our own experiences with you. I have been on some form of opiate for years n finally went to sub. Then...finally off sub just over three weeks ago. The clarity of thot I am experiencing right now shows me where I have been.
I think that is why aftercare programs encourage us to not beat ourselves up over the past. It is hard for me to not think of how much I have missed all these years on opiates. How much more I could have accomplished. I truly believe my best years are in front of me. I do hope u keep posting. U truly r not alone.
EvolverU could not have said it more appropriately. We r indeed here to show u support. But it would b dishonest of us if we didn't share our own experiences with you. I have been on some form of opiate for years n finally went to sub. Then...finally off sub just over three weeks ago. The clarity of thot I am experiencing right now shows me where I have been.
I think that is why aftercare programs encourage us to not beat ourselves up over the past. It is hard for me to not think of how much I have missed all these years on opiates. How much more I could have accomplished. I truly believe my best years are in front of me. I do hope u keep posting. U truly r not alone.
Hi, :)
If you need to stay on Subs for a while, so be it! I was on M'done last time for 20 yrs. before I got so sick of it that I had to quit. I've also been on Subs, though they didn't work as well for me. I understand exactly what you're talking about, about being able to 'function'. That's the whole reason for 'maintenance'/harm reduction that so many folks don't get. It does make sense for some of us as a stop-gap measure.
However -- (& please don't take this the wrong way),-- in Weaver's defense -- who was echoing in his own way what both 61Chevy & I also touched on -- though you may feel much better about yourself & be able to function 'coherently' in life since you switched to Subs, what we're all trying to convey, is that you really can't appreciate 'til you stop, how numbed to ourselves & our own experience we actually are when we're on these fully synthetic opiates. I know it's hard to believe (b/c if we have the drive & we stay clean on them, we really can pull our lives together in certain ways!). I'll reiterate, here. It was a total shock & revelation how much I hadn't been 'engaging' w/ my own emotions & experience & with life in general when I stopped. I felt the same way you do before I started my taper for a lonnnnng time. We're here to share our own experiences, personal takes & battles with you, in the hopes that it will give you 'scope' & support :)
If you need to stay on Subs for a while, so be it! I was on M'done last time for 20 yrs. before I got so sick of it that I had to quit. I've also been on Subs, though they didn't work as well for me. I understand exactly what you're talking about, about being able to 'function'. That's the whole reason for 'maintenance'/harm reduction that so many folks don't get. It does make sense for some of us as a stop-gap measure.
However -- (& please don't take this the wrong way),-- in Weaver's defense -- who was echoing in his own way what both 61Chevy & I also touched on -- though you may feel much better about yourself & be able to function 'coherently' in life since you switched to Subs, what we're all trying to convey, is that you really can't appreciate 'til you stop, how numbed to ourselves & our own experience we actually are when we're on these fully synthetic opiates. I know it's hard to believe (b/c if we have the drive & we stay clean on them, we really can pull our lives together in certain ways!). I'll reiterate, here. It was a total shock & revelation how much I hadn't been 'engaging' w/ my own emotions & experience & with life in general when I stopped. I felt the same way you do before I started my taper for a lonnnnng time. We're here to share our own experiences, personal takes & battles with you, in the hopes that it will give you 'scope' & support :)
It don't think you understand what I meant, just because the emotional center is covered by subs doesn't mean you feel nothing. It means that 80 of your neuro receptors are altering those sites. In effect, it changes how you feel, not if you feel. I was on 250 mgs methadone, so felt 100% on subs. It's hard to explain, but my feelings are more intense of sub. Makes sex way better, how I feel about my kids, it's all a little bit more clear and intense. It may be different for other people, probably different for everyone, like everything.
On the otherhand, my best friend is a sub lifer. The pain is too much to function and it kills his pain enough live. In many cases it's worth the relief for the price. He is down to 8mgs maintenance. He'll take less on easy days and more on hard days, but he always has enough. He was on 24mgs to start, but over time the sub was having a zombie effect and he found what was the best sacrifice for relief dose. It sounds like your like to be pain killer free though, which my friend and anyone agree is the ideal. I actually was afraid to get stuck on subs, so I didn't take them long enough. Live and learn. Anyway, hope some of this helps. I still say, If I was gonna be stuck on any opioid for life, it would be buprenorphine.
On the otherhand, my best friend is a sub lifer. The pain is too much to function and it kills his pain enough live. In many cases it's worth the relief for the price. He is down to 8mgs maintenance. He'll take less on easy days and more on hard days, but he always has enough. He was on 24mgs to start, but over time the sub was having a zombie effect and he found what was the best sacrifice for relief dose. It sounds like your like to be pain killer free though, which my friend and anyone agree is the ideal. I actually was afraid to get stuck on subs, so I didn't take them long enough. Live and learn. Anyway, hope some of this helps. I still say, If I was gonna be stuck on any opioid for life, it would be buprenorphine.
I understand. I've known others that simply prefer to stay on suboxone. All I can do is share my own personal experience. I don't know your health issues, your pain. Sounds like u r in a Dr's care. I wish u the best.
Ulimately I would very much like to taper down and quit the subs also but not for a long time. I already stopped them way too soon once and I wont do that again. But if it takes a year or 2 I don't care. Right now I am having a very hard time finding a mental health professional to help with program that will take Medicare. They only seem to take medicade lol.
if what you said was true then I would be an emotional zombie cause im taking 2 strips a day right now as prescribed and I feel emotionally great. Im not looking for the next buzz, I want to do more things around the house, I am limited to what I can do because I am disabled and in chronic sever pain all the time. Especially now that I am off all pain meds. The Subs actually help alittle but not much.
See I wouldn't care if I had to stay on suboxone forever. I feel normal, I act normal, im not a douchbag to my wife with suboxone. I just consider it another drug I need to live just like my diabetes meds and BP meds. Its not so bad if you look at it that way and I thing its a good way to look at it.
I haven't been in a good space to post, but I saw you wrote directly to me, so I wanted to congratulate you on doing the right thing. I OD'd a few times, so that first OD was not enough to make me get it together. The last one was very close to death with no one to help me, so I finally got it. You are either smarter or less stubborn than I am, way to go cutting the sources. Keep doing whatever it takes, because that is what it takes. Thanks for sharing your story, a whole new frontier awaits you.
I also want to agree with the above, subs make us feel normal, because we are less high than we are used to, but as little as 4 mgs blocks 80% of the emotional center of the brain. Definitely get into aftercare and learn some coping skills, etc…while you have this time on subs. I wouldn't stay on them any longer than you need too, but don't quit before you have a good plan and support in place. It's obvious you want this, so keep searching for answers and doing everything possible to get it.
I also want to agree with the above, subs make us feel normal, because we are less high than we are used to, but as little as 4 mgs blocks 80% of the emotional center of the brain. Definitely get into aftercare and learn some coping skills, etc…while you have this time on subs. I wouldn't stay on them any longer than you need too, but don't quit before you have a good plan and support in place. It's obvious you want this, so keep searching for answers and doing everything possible to get it.
alwaysbroke63- Calling yourself that Is a self defeating attitude towards self...However you think of yourself, so shall you be...you need to unprogram your brain, and reprogram with a fresh, new positive attitude dude!! My name is Renee, and I was the same way!! Watch "THE SECRET" it is actually true, the power of thought is incredible on our lives.. Your doing the right thing to, stopping going to the pain management and telling him your abusing your med's, way to go, give yourself credit for that one!! Not to many people would be able to burn a bridge down like that, that took strength, and God gives us what we need IF.... we ask him to.
Hi & Welcome :)
Thanks for sharing your story with us!
You sound like you're a rapid metabolizer. I was too. :) I wanted to congratulate you on calling your pain Dr. & explaining what's been going on! That's Huge & it shows that you really want this.
What 61chevy said is so true. We don't realize how Subs (or any other opiate) is interfering with the way we think, do & feel until we're clean for a while. I was pretty surprised myself at the difference after many years on heroin, Methadone & subs.
Do you think you could go back to your Sub Dr. & get on the lowest possible dose that will hold you & then plan a taper w/ him? Just be completely transparent & open up about all this w/ the counselor there & with him?
So glad you posted. Let us know what you're thinking & feeling :)
Thanks for sharing your story with us!
You sound like you're a rapid metabolizer. I was too. :) I wanted to congratulate you on calling your pain Dr. & explaining what's been going on! That's Huge & it shows that you really want this.
What 61chevy said is so true. We don't realize how Subs (or any other opiate) is interfering with the way we think, do & feel until we're clean for a while. I was pretty surprised myself at the difference after many years on heroin, Methadone & subs.
Do you think you could go back to your Sub Dr. & get on the lowest possible dose that will hold you & then plan a taper w/ him? Just be completely transparent & open up about all this w/ the counselor there & with him?
So glad you posted. Let us know what you're thinking & feeling :)
Hi. I tapered off Suboxone so it can b done. Sorry to hear of your losses over last ten years. Opiates can b consuming. All consuming.
R u planning on using sub to get completely clean? I agree...when I went from lortab to sub I felt normal. After a year or two on sub, I felt like I just traded lortab for sub. I was addicted to the sub. Slowly tapered n jumped off July 20th. On day 25 since my last dose of sub, and my experience is that I am thinking more clearly and am starting to feel n think like my old self before opiates. So sub will still cloud ur mind even if u don't feel it. U will b able to tell once ur completely clean. Let me know if I can help. Pulling for you n wishing u the best.
R u planning on using sub to get completely clean? I agree...when I went from lortab to sub I felt normal. After a year or two on sub, I felt like I just traded lortab for sub. I was addicted to the sub. Slowly tapered n jumped off July 20th. On day 25 since my last dose of sub, and my experience is that I am thinking more clearly and am starting to feel n think like my old self before opiates. So sub will still cloud ur mind even if u don't feel it. U will b able to tell once ur completely clean. Let me know if I can help. Pulling for you n wishing u the best.
I also would like to explain myself a little more. I have been on a lot of opiate pain meds for almost 10 years. I have lost homes, wives and my children because of them. Several months ago I woke up and decided that if I didn't make a change I was going to lose everything I have all over again and right now I have a loving wife that stands by me no matter how much of a douchbag I can be. The pills make me a douchbag. Well anyway I went to a Suboxone doctor and got on the program. It was like a breath of fresh air. I was normal again like I used to be 10 years ago before all the meds. Then I started reading all the horrible things people say about suboxone and it made me scared but I kep it up cause I didn't want to go back to the pills. Then a really bad thing happened, My dog tore my rotator cuff while walking him on the leash and it hurt so bad. That was all the excuse I needed to contact my pain management doctor and get loaded up with pain killers again. After seeing him for 2 months and stopping the suboxone I again made the decision to stop. That was last night. I called my Pain doctor this morning and told him I was abusing my meds and that he should not see me any more thus cutting off any chance I had to go back to the pills and then proceded to make an appointment today with my sub doctor. I am going to kick it this time. I have to or I would just keep upping my pain pills till I OD'd and there are WAY too many people on this earth left for me to **** off before I go lol. Any way thx for listening buddy I really appreciate it.
Well, I broke down and 2 hours ago I took a quarter strip and after an hour I didn't feel better but I didn't feel worse. I didn't go into precip. Now I took 80 milligrams of oxycontin last night at about 2 AM and at 9 this morning took 1 and a half Norco 10s and 2 tramadol 50s to try not to get too sick which as you know didn't help. I felt like I was in full WD's after just 5 hours. Well, anyway after that quarter strip and an hour went by I figured it was safe to take the rest of my prescribed strip and after about 30 more mins I started to feel like a new person. Like you said Weaver71, every one is different and I am just trying to let people know that you don't always have to wait 24 or more hours in agony before taking suboxone.
Every body is different, that is why doctors are instructed to use the COWS, though few actually do. Once I saw a man take sub only 12 hours after 50mgs of methadone, which is supposedly impossible. From that high a dose methadone, 72 hrs is what he was told how long to wait. No doctor is instructed that a certain amount of time is the correct induction waiting period. Using time is a guess at best and I have seen many people get precipitated withdrawal from using time rather than COWS as their measurement, usually following doctors orders. On the other hand, my last dose was 160mgs of methadone and waited 5 days, it is better to err on the side of caution.
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