Why do painkillers enhance my joy of life and better my career?

[Sugarbeens]

I have been on this board off and on for about 3 years doctor, and this is the first time I have been able to finally post my very own question. I am 48 years old, female, and I am now divorced(4 years) after 21 years of marriage.  I started taking pain meds really full-time when I was 40, but, I have had severe back pain since I was 23 when I had my second fall. I raised 4 children and would never have used illegal drugs or drank(except for an occasional glass of wine), even though I had severe pain.  My children were my life and I do not believe in doing anything illegal.  I still don't.  However, I have been on first just vicodin and now I take 4 vics a day and 2 percocets a day.  I also take ativan when I have extreme anxiety.  I have stopped many times, but, my pain is great and also, I feel so much more comfortable and more joy than I ever did as a chiid.  As a child, I was the one hiding in the corner, never talking, and scared of my own shadow.  Now, I am confident and people love me.  Everyone wants me to speak at conferences and I do so much more for my clients than I ever did before.  Yes, I am mad sometimes that it takes meds to make my brain chemistry work, but, my question is this! Am I wrong to continue taking the meds when I need them not only for pain, but, for anxiety.   I havedoneso much more with my life since beginning these meds.  I take my meds as directed, and I am a therapist and feel because of my childhood experiences that I can help people.  My final question, is it OK to take the meds for both physical and emotional pain/feel joy?

[Sugarbeens]

I have never looked for a therapist for anxiety, just recently, my own family doctor.   What I will tell you is that I never participated in play , swimming, anything that was the least bit scary as I was always filled with anxiety. My mother was mentally ill and yelled and screamed all the time and my father diedwhen I was 6 from alcoholism.  Most children would have friends and play and smile and laugh, but, I never did that. I knew when I was young that something was wrong and I begged my mother to take me to a doctor.  She wouldn't.  My one family doctor I had to go to once asked my mother why I was so nervous and he gave me pills and she threw them away.  Ativan, I have found in last year, works wonders.   I can talk to anyone and feel happy about my life.  I am divorced and alone, but, I do have friends and date some.  Thank you doctor for your response.  I guess I asked this question, because I do have guilt that I have to take meds to make me feel like a whole human being.  Thank you for all your support on this forum.

[Lostgirl]

When I go C/T, when do I start the receipe?  Obviously the tapering does not work for me!  Don't know if you got my post about the water or not.  I will find out the name tomorrow.  this little "LostGirl" is pretty lost right now.  Did not do well with the tapering at all.  Got that big bottle and it sparkled and twinklked right into me.  Little blue devils.  My mother gave me an ultimatium so I really don't have any choices or excuses any more.  So if I don't make it thru next week, good luck to you all!

R

[freezing]

I am not judgemental.  More power to ya.  I take valium for anxiety and it works great.

I was like you with mild opiates for years.  Then I ended up like everyone else who posts here.  Read all the posts and see what could lay in store for your future.  I NEVER thought it would happen to me.  I took valium for 15 years and never got addicted nor built a tolerance.  Years of coke...no problem.  Opiates are a whole different story.  

Don't get me wrong.  I agree with you and don't blame you for your perspective.  I feel the same way, but then some.  I am struggling and will be for the rest of my life as a result of opiate use and the permanent receptor and brain chemistry changes.

[Thomas03]

I could never taper, either. That's how and why I developed the recipe -- lots of CT's off those Vics!

And you're right, timing of therapies is very important during WD. Here's the recipe text with all of that spelled out. Hope it helps you.

Thomas

Thomas Detox Recipe

PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas

This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (immodium) (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium (immodium) aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down the next morning, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you.

[mrmichael67]

There is a lot of press out there about opiates or opioids being excellent for depression, so I can definitely see where Sugarbeans is coming from.  Don't be surprised if, in the future, we see more use in that area.

[Thomas050]

This was a great post, and I really appreciated your reply Dr.

Wow, it is interesting because the pain meds do seem to have that effect. One of the known documented effects of opiates is euphoria, feeling good. And yes, for some it can even have a positive effect psychological problems such as low self esteme, depression, introvertedness etc. I am not an expert, this is just based on myself, and the people I have know that use opiates.
However, very importantly, and the doctor stated it very well, there is a dark side. You do build up a tollerance to them. And, like many, you may eventually get to a point where you no longer want to take them and will have a very difficult time getting off them because of their addictive qualities. This is a quality that can not be ignored and I imagine that is why they are not prescribed for psychological reasons. The doctor was very wise to promote other alternatives to getting to the bottom of your problems.

I am currently using pain pills for psychological reasons also. While they do help in the short run, I do forsee a problem train heading my way. I am taking 4x what I started taking to get the same effect, only after 4 months use. And when I stop taking them for several days I already see the addictive qualities - my depression is amplified (and the things that caused my depression are still there, as fresh as the day I started using the meds, I have not gotten past them one bit), and I have trouble sleeping. And well that's it, but those are horrible enough.

I warn you to be very careful, they are not exactly the wonder drug you may think. Take careful notice of the posts in forums like these, of stories (some not unlike yours), people a bit further along on the useage timeline, along with the Dr.'s professional advice.

Kind regards,
Thomas050

[rodewc]

My take is: Narcotics gave (me) the impression that the job was better, life was better, food was better, exercise was better, etc.

Now, my closest friends (friends of 20 yrs) say: You have changed. Are you depressed?  You used to always wanna do stuff, be the life of the party, "social director", the most creative  ________ (fill in job title here), and now you do nothing. You are depressed. See a doctor. You never want to do anything. (party)

I questioned that.

Their answers were: Now you only wanna stay at home and do nothing. Even when I replied that until we (Hub and I) got DDTD (Don't Do That Dog, our pedigree mutt Pit Bull (sp?):))), that even before the dawg (but AFTER the dope), hubby and I went away almost every weekend exploring all the Gullah culture had to offer.

The friends' questions did not cease. These friends wanted to know what we did now (since we have another child, DDTD- thus not able to leave for weekend forages) and I said, "We usu. eat out 2X per wk/end, go to the beach, mess w/ DDTD, etc. They wanted to know where. It felt like the inquisition.

I would be lying if I SAID that I wasn't happier on a narcotic high at work. But am I as productive now? YES. Am I as successful now? YES. Is my job of equal or better quality? YES Is there pain in my feet and back? Yes. Do I watch the clock? YES

But having life revolve, not around a pill bottle, but around life: music, books, nature, love, pets. That is living. And though Oxycodone/Hydrocoodone may have made me an ENTJ. I am an INTJ. Do a Google or other search. There are 16 personality types. I masked mine for decades with dope. No longer.

Search the net for the Keirsey Tepmperment Sorter II if you have not taken it prior. (or the Breyers- Miggs (sp?)
It will tell you a lot about why you abuse or have abused, about you work productivity/relationships..., and relationships in love and fiendship. (among other telling things)

It might even tell you why you look a gift horse in the mouth without a word of thanks. It is a Very accurate summation (for lack of a better word) of persons' personalities and why they act as they do.

DDTD, Hubby and I may be depressed in the eyes of out friends, but since ridding ourselves ('tho hubby never used, he suffered from My Abuse as much, or worse, than I... so off the 3 of us go, and to my friends I am now "that old depressed fart RWC~,"  but inside I have never been happier. I can only live today for me and for those I cherish.

Sorry for waxing on w/ little msg.

rwc~

[hippy]

good morning, it's sat.
just wanted to say that my experence was the same in the begining
,when i started taking vike's , they  worked for my pain , and
had a very helpful hand in taking away depression, and made me feel great and energetic.
after a few years tho the pills  began to cause depression,
you could say they turned on me , and began to suck any
good feelings i had right out of me.
i do not know if this is the same with everyone, for me
after taking them for a few years  i got no good feelings,
i did not get high on them , i had to take them to just feel
normal , and function enough to  go to work.

[suzieneedshelp]

Hello!  I agree with hippee exactly...Opiates are not an option for depression or anxiety because they want us dead.  Our brain chemistry is different and the opiates do make me feel normal!  Until they totally took over my life.  After nine years of total functionality: promotions, District manager in charge of 40 employees at 5 facilities, great money, huge home, volunteering...all the b s of " success" in this society...then all of a sudden i went downhill fast.  The 10th year was a total disaster:  my income went lower than it was first year out of grad school in mid eighties.  My apartment was a total disaster, neglected my child, was moraly bankrupt and became spiritually bankrupt too.  Depression hit so bad that ending life was a frequent thought Now i drive my Dad's second car, live with my 81 y o parents, not workin...totally broke...  The opiates and my thinking disease had taken over and i almost lost everything literally!  Still may lose my prescious daughter...
So plz hon beware...this disease is called cunning, baffling and powerful.  I hope you dont have to lose it all like me to find solutions...most do.
Said in love..
Suzie

[passenby]

Suzy,that was beautifully said you are kind and to the point.I haven't been able to catch up to you since I went on my CT trip.I have a question for you about the nasal spray. I did pretty good with detox (only on day 7) but I used the spray 4 time once every 24hrs. I wasn't going to use it last night but at the usual time I took it at bedtime I started to ache all over and had rls. do you think that is still the WD from vikes or did I go to for with the spray? would value your oppion

[passenby]

I wanted to let you know that I am on day 7 using Thomas's recipe. A week ago I was pretty upset and feeling kind of lost myself. I was trying to taper and having no luck at all it hurt my confidence and I was sure that meant If I couldn't even taper how and the heck was I going to go cold turkey. Well Thomas came to my rescue and said just about the same he told you and here I am on day 7 so keep this in mind remember your not alone. you can to this.        

Thomas where in the heck have you been I wanted to thank you for your info and the recipe so if you get this a big hug and a bigger thanks to you.

[suzieneedshelp]

Hey!  Congrats on your detox work off the vikes!  Regarding The stadol...Plz give me more info.  How long have u  used it?  Did you say u took 4 puffs at once every 24 hours?
Thx!
Peace..
Suzie

[passenby]

Oh no I knew better that that from your last post to me (warnings about the nasal spray) I did one sray on one side in 24 hrs 4 different time including last night when I wasn't going to take it but I hurt all over and hand rls. is that enough info?

[suummerrwwinnd]

I don't know if this is the right place to write but need some support. Detoxed starting on 4-14-03 inpatient.

I went of painkillers: Actiq (fentanyl lollipops), Norco, and Kadian.  I think it was the Actiq that sent me over the edge.  It's like candy!! I was then given Ultram after detoxing.  I won't see that Dr. again.  I also take Neurontin, and Ambien.  I quit taking klonopin and the Ultram last week.  It's seems as if I keep going thru w/d.  I have severe pain, that no-one seems to know what it is.  Its in my side, personally I think I have another colon polyp but can't get dr's to listen.  When I went to pain mngmt. I specifically said I wanted to be fixed, not just a band-aid.  Ha, started giving me the pills, and I thought I was very functional.  Some days I still feel I was more productive than now.  My anxiety is so high and frequent I think I'll NEVER get over this.  Is the pain real or de-tox???? I have lost about 25 lbs. since de-tox date.  PLEASE NO-ONE USE THOSE ACTIQ UNLESS YOU ARE TERMINAL!!!!!
Thanks,
suummerrwwinnd.

[Wardman]

Yes....certainly true in my case that these pills turned on me.  I suffer from severe depression now.  My habit is either hydro or oxycodone.  Oddly enough, in the 10 years I have beeen on these pills (many clean times of course)  I have NEVER increased my dosage.  I still take the dose of pills, which is is usually 10 mgs a pop.  I think I am lucky that my tolerance is still the same.  But I have seen my personality change.  I refuse all offers of going out so I can stay home and take my pills.  It is sad to see what I have become.  I want to be off these pills so bad that I have dreams weekly of being clean.  I just can't get through the first 72 hours.  The depression I get when I stop is OVERWHELMING.  The depression is also bad on the pills.  Therefore, it have become a living hell.  I have great insurance. I am thinking of sucking up my pride and entering a rehab facility.  It would be a relief  fo my shoulders.  I love being clean.  I also do not have any otehr additcions.  i do not smoke.  I maybe have 2-5 drinks A YEAR.  I also have neevr tried hard drugs.  Maybe there is hope for me.

[lisabet]

Hey you...glad to see you posting; haven't seen you on the forum for awhile.  I know what you mean about quitting the pills altogether, I'm scared to death of the withdrawals that come with it. Right now, I'm taking just enough vicodins to stave off the WD's (4 or 5 a day), and have been stuck there for quite a while.  Several members on this board says the fear of the WD's is actually much worse that going through it; comparing it to a bad case of flu, but guess I'm just a "wuss"...smile.  I'm so sorry to hear about your depression. I was going through the same thing myself, and my ob doctor put me on prozac a couple of months ago (which I took before for post-partum depression), and I can honestly say it's helped a lot. Was on paxil for awhile; from my experience I wouldn't recommend that; when I went off of it I had a host of shitty side-effects that I didn't even realize was from the paxil till I read others posts what they went through with it.  But for many, it's very effective.  If re-hab is an option for you and you feel it'll help, by all means go for it!!!  Don't be embarrassed about it. All you need to say to the people who have to know is that you realized you were getting dependent on painkillers, and you want to nip it in the bud before it becomes a real problem...(at least, that's what all the celebrities say when they enter rehab)...smile.  Wishing you the best; keep us posted, OK?   Love/Peace, Lisabet

[willowgirl]

I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ABOUT DOING YOUR JOB BETTER, BEING MUCH MORE PRODUCTIVE ETC.  I WAS THE SAME WAY ABOUT 7 YEARS AGO.  I WAS ON TOP OF MY GAME.  I HAVE A VERY PHYSICAL JOB AND I ALSO WORK WITH THE PUBLIC. ON THE VICS I WAS NEVER SHY ALWAYS A BUNDLE OF ENERGY AND JUST PHENONMINAL AT MY JOB. BUT AS TIME ROLLS ON YOU NEED MORE AND MORE TO ACHIEVE THOSE SAME FEELINGS.  THE ARGUEMENT YOU ARE PROPOSING IS THE SAME ONE I WOULD SAY " I AM BETTER ON THE PILLS" BUT I DONT KNOW ANYONE IT DOESNT FINALLY CATCH UP TOO.  WHEN I GOT TO ABOUT 15 TO 20 A DAY I WAS NOT DOING MY JOB WELL I WAS MOODY, IRRATIONAL, TIRED, AND OBESSIVE.  I NEVER THOUGHT IT COULD HAPPEN TO ME.  NOW I AM ON A GOD AWFUL TAPERING SYSTEM UNTIL I CAN SEE A DR THAT CAN PRESCRIBE ME BUPRENORPHINE.  I AM NO EXPERT BUT IF I WERE STILL ON THE 6 A DAY PLAN AND KNEW THEN WHAT I KNOW NOW. I WOULD OF SUCKED IT UP AND TRIED TO KICK THE HABIT THEN.  DONT EVER THINK THESE LITTLE PILLS ARE YOUR FRIENDS>>> THEY WANT TO CONTROL YOU AND OWN YOU AND SOON THEY WILL.  STOP NOW AND TRY TO WORK WITHOUT THEM .  MAYBE YOU WILL NOT POSESS ALL THE ENEGETIC SKILLS YOU SEEM TO HAVE NOW BUT AT LEAST YOU KNOW THAT SOMEWHERE IN YOUR MIND AND BODY  THEY ARE THERE YOU HAVE PROVEN THAT TO YOURSELF, AS YOU SAID YOU DO BETTER ON THE PILLS. TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO BRING THEM OUT ON YOUR OWN BEFORE YOU LOSE THEM ALTOGETHER. AND I SWEAR WEATHER IT IS 6 MONTHS OR 6 YEARS THEY WILL GET YOU.

[passenby]

I gave you the info you ask for just in case you didn't see it I am still waiting for your oppion just scroll up a little and by the way no stadol last night. Day 9 and it's the best day yet.

[dienikad]

Hey GMAN,

I was in the very some boat as you -- never built up a tolerance. Never was able to take too many at a time(Tylenol is a killer -with hydros) Anyway -- I landed on the hard **** -- havent build a tolerance --

I am hypersensitive to narcotics I think?
Have you ever had an operation? Or anestesia?

_Pete

[grappler]

Right now I am contemplating on going back on prescription medication I thought that I could go with just over the counter stuff but I can't.  I need help.  How can I tell the doctor that I want to be on meds permanently. My story is on the Ultram/Ultracet thread FYI.  I have such a hard time going out and enjoying life because of this nagging back pain.  I went to the doctor and he gave me some Dolobid or something like that for the pain in my back,but that did'nt phase it for when I am up and about for extended periods of time. He has me bend over and walk on my toes and on my heels and I mean it does'nt hurt like a sharp pain so I have mobility but after standing for a while or sitting down for a while my back get real weak and I feel like it's real tired and worn down when I use to have the Ultram it would take the pain away but I was taking too much and if I take some type of narcotic I know for sure that I can manage it and only take my recommended dose but I know that I will be hooked sooner or later but it's not as bad as the Ultram.
Because I took some narcotics (vicodin) when I was released from the hospital for about 6 months and followed my prescription and it did help me.  So what do I tell the doc "I want narcotics" because he was contemplating that last time but he said, "I want to give you something for your pain, but I don't want you to be to sedated while your at work so we'll try this Dolobid" and that did'nt work. Well I know that I'll have to take something with a narcotic to feel like not scared to go out and do more stuff besides work out because it's weird because when I work out I my pain is blocked or something especially during aerobic activity and that's another thing when I was taking vicodin back then after about 5 months I started jogging and it seemed that it would hit me just as hard as it did the first time I ever took it with the same dose. Could it be that I sweated out the drug and purged my system by jogging? Or what? Well anyway I know you guys will write back to me like no tommorrow and give some good responses that will help me out.  If you're not familiar with my story I will post it again on this thread right under this one.

Thanks,

All of you

SoCal Grappler

[grappler]

I am a world class athlete (wresler/ultimate fighter. If anyone has seen the HBO special "The Smashing Machine" that is almost my exact story just that I was led to dependence by an accident. I was in a serious accident I ruptured some discs and had some fractures in my spine and had some nerve damage that extended into my stomach and made my stomach very sensitive to the touch and that almost took my life and was forced into retirement and my "olympic" and "fighting" career was put on hold or held off indefinetley. Well, anyway I was given many medicines including a large number of opiates for back and nerve damage and pain that was incurred from my accident. I must admit that I had withdrawl symptoms from Morphine when I was discharged from the hospital but overcame them in a few days. Seven later I went to see a doctor and he perscribed me some Ultram or as generic is known "Tramadol" it took some time to get used to,because at first its not a pain reliever it feels like a sedative or something weird that gave me headaches, but once I used it long enough it did ease the pain and ease the symptoms especially the ones I have the most trouble with which are the damage to a nerve that extends to my stomach, in fact one of my stomach muscles was collapsed which looked kind of deformed for about a year. The problems started when I started to run out of the perscription before it was time for a refill and this happend time and time again I felt extremely dependent I never felt like this even with the vicodine or whatever else I took. I have a tremendous amount of will and I told myself I am getting off of this **** no matter what. It was so tough but I did it and the withdrawls continued for two-weeks I have never encountered anything so mentally and physically challenging and difficult to beat. I'll tell you I have fasted for a couple of days no food no water while still training like a madman to get down to weight for competitions and I competed in Russia, Bulgaria, Crotia, Cuba  and I thought that was mentally and physically challenging for the normal human. Over the course of my two-week withdrawl I developed sores in my mouth like blisters probably because of the fever and chills I got, but man, I thought,"this is heavy duty" I can't believe how rough this is it was something that I thought that probably was going to be able to beat or overcome because how overwhelming the symptoms were. I would not advise the use of this medicine to anyone and the doctor said "don't worry about it it's not a narcotic medicine." Well it might not be narcotic but it sure has some "allout" more than narcotic effects. I have since stopped taking it and am now taking some other medicine that does'nt totally take my pain away(ibuprophen) but I don't care I will probably have to live with it for the rest of my life it's nagging but tolerable. I can still workout and strengthen my muscle tissue and train hard but not to where I'll injure myself it seems that it helps with the pain. I still take some vicodin every once in a while but only when I can't stand it. Also, if there is someone with a similar problem with nerve damage that extends to their stomach and still bothers them please, please email me with any suggestions on treatment. I invite anyone or any other person with a similar story to email me. But to recap please Say No To ULTRAM!

[vettezr1]

Hey I was wondering what you were up to. Dude you have to level with the doctor and if you don’t like what he has to say find another one. I would suggest a good pain management doctor. Here is the deal when you work out two things happen, your body makes endorphins that helps block pain naturally even if your taking Opiates but more importantly you are distracted so you do not notice the pain as much it may seem dubious but I have finished many a race to find out I had broken my leg or arm or ribs or even my back once and didn’t feel **** until that night. As far as asking for pain meds let me be clear I do not think anyone in pain should have to suffer regardless of the barbaric DEA regulations imposed on doctors. Now at the risk of pissing off any addicts I do not believe in taking pills for jollies and do not understand why the **** anyone would;
Briefly constipation lack of interest bloating and a host of other negative side effects is not my idea of fun and at the risk of being redundant I will point out all the research points out chronic pain patience’s do not metabolize Opiates the way addicts due and rarely become addicts yes they become dependent but new research shows they easily can be tapered and stop without the BS addicts go through and before all the purists pee there pants I do not take Pain meds because I chose not to, but have a large bottle of Vicoden in case I need it ( doctor prescribed)  Back to your question I sent you the research link for chronic pain print it out and give it to your doc if you want. Its hard for guys like us to tell the doctors look we hurt really bad help us because we feel like little umm sissy’s but man I know what you are feeling it sucks being in great shape and hurting like hell. I can touch my toes and bend in half every which way but the pain just doesn’t stop, tell him what my pain doc told me” Mike you are mistaking being fit with being pain free”.  Grappler one last thing understand it is very possible to take pain meds responsibly and not develop a ragging linear increase in usage, meaning it has been found that once a reasonable level of pain control has been reached if you stay in shape and are prudent in your usage you should not have to take tons of the stuff to get relief. Talk to your doctor don’t put it off if you feel this badly he can’t help if he doesn’t know.
  

[grappler]

Thanks for the word of advice, I appreciate what you had to say and I will take the advice and use it.  I guess a pain management clinic might be in order.  And hopefully I can get the right type of medicine for my pain.  I'll make an appointment today.  What is the usual process there?  Do they check you out like a regular doctor or whats the deal. I take it you work out some also.  I also wanted to ask if vicoden is some type of muscle enhancer, because if I take it and work out it seems that my recovery time and my ability to build muscle is increased by a lot.  Can anyone elaborate?  I looked all over the internet for some type of article dealing with working out and opiates how they help your body recover so quickly.

Thanks,

SoCal Grappler

Team Machine

[vettezr1]

There is some interesting controversy on Opiates and Growth Hormone release or HGH.
Vicoden is a Pain Killer others can elaborate more its just a Narcotic but some new research on weight lifters and football players who abuse just about everything found a relationship with Opiate use and muscle mass. Its seems a stupid way to build muscle but hey whatever right. It could be that allowing one the ability to push beyond the pain threshold could be what causes the GH release and the extended or accelerated muscle repair. One word of caution; Grappler I power lift and did so while I was taking morphine I managed to injury myself (my spine) rather significantly because of the numbing effects of the morphine I was unable to feel the pain I was inflicting to myself. I mention this because I know you already have some damage as well. Now I have to live with the nerve damage I caused being an ******* so watch out. As far as the pain doc yes go to a pain management doc and tell them every ache and pain and let them decide what you need don’t hold back anything let them know you plan on being active they like that shows you are making an effort to have a life. Good luck man.

[Bunches]

I have to say right now I am really frightened.  I went thru detox 2 weeks ago and have fought intense anxiety ever since and have felt like the last two days I would not make it.  Well, I didn't.  I read this post yesterday and really started to relate, and feel like I'm not the more outgoing person I am while on Vicodin, yet it made me crash and that's what landed me in detox.  Tonight I succumbed and took 3 over the last several hours.  And once again I felt more like an "active human being" even though I know the end result is terrible.  Will I now have to go through withdrawals again?  Am I just doomed to repeat this?  I'm so disappointed with myself and disgusted, but realize how depressed I seem without the vic's, but it's a fruitless vicious cycle.  I don't know what I should do, of course telling anyone (friends that know, my dad, or therapist) scares me but also feels like something I should do.  I can't seem to save myself from me anymore....

thx for listening....I just had to write and say how much this topic really "hits home" for me and I relate...

[grappler]

Thanks,Vette I like the way you explained the pain killer "working out" concept.  Its real hard to find out any written information on this topic.  If you know any websites that relate to this please post.


Thanks,

So Cal Grappler

[kittn]

I've been lurking for about 6 months. Can't tell all of you how much reading these posts everyday helps me get through the day. I, too, feel doomed to repeat the viscous cycle of hording pills, counting them when they get low, having to wait until I can get a refill. It makes me feel so dirty. I've been taking percocet, lortab-10 for about 1 1/2 years now - usually 10-12/day for legitimate back pain but I always end up abusing them. Then I have to answer to my husband, my mother and more importantly to myself. For the life of me I will never understand how some people can take it like it is prescribed and just let a whole bottle sit there in their medicine cabinet untouched. Why have I been cursed to live like this? Everytime I run out, I suffer from pain having to wait until I can get it filled. Then when I get a new RX, I tell myself "OK, I will take it correctly this time." And we all know what happens next. Of course, right now I am going through withdrawal and am very depressed and lethargic. I look at my beautiful baby's face and try to imagine what it would be like to be a healthy mother to her. Thanks for letting me share my story, more will come...

[grappler]

Hey,

The idea of you having a place to open up and tell what you feel I think is a good start to a new beginning.

I have posted and it seems that at least one person has heard and responded. I feel that with at least one response the person that originally posted gets a feeling of relief that they are not alone and that there are other people just like them or worse out there and that they are willing to help,share words of encouragement or relate to what you're talking about.  Keep posting and don't ever think that you can't because the human mind is a powerful thing and if it is really put to use it can accomplish a myriad of things.

Your fellow comment poster,

So Cal Grappler
Team Machine

[vettezr1]

Hey Grappler just checking in, how have you been doing? Did you find or go to your doctor? As far as good links go to Google and type in Opiates and bodybuilding or Opiates and Testosterone release lots of stuff will pop up. One good link is Lifextension.org I was looking over some old posts and read yours again about the Ultram.
Funny thing a few of my buddies including me were given scripts for it, we all have it in our gig bags but nobody takes it we all think its sucks. It makes everyone feel weak and slows are reflexes every time someone’s wife has a bad headache or cramps they ask us for the Ultram or we would have just chucked it out. Hey not to sound like a **** but what is greenage? I am assuming some kind of West Coast thing?

[rodewc]

Greenage is Pot, marijuana

Many say it helps. I say UG.

happy holiday
rwc~

[vettezr1]

Thanks man I thought it was something to eat. Every Time I go to the West Coast they eat some weird stuff Tofu, Bean Sprouts. I thought greenage was something like that but thanks now I wont go into a store and ask for it that could have been bad.

[rodewc]

:) a sec ago I was crying, now laffing at yr words.. Happy hol 2.
rwc~

[vettezr1]

Crying? I hope everything is ok. It’s rainy and crappy here but some friends and me are having a contest to see who can stay in the ocean the longest, it’s like 40 degrees.
Hope all is well have a good holiday. If you really want to laugh my mom likes to cook health food for me because I always get hurt so she has to try and keep me alive for some reason she reads prevention and some other health food magazines so I asked her to cook me up some greenage. I am not going there for dinner today! I am always pulling pranks if she thinks I knew what that was I am so dead. Italian moms do not screw around.

[grace521]

It's crappy and raining here in PA.  I'm glad to have found this place.  I've been using painkillers for two years and after a back injury six months ago thing have gotten realy bad.  I tried cold turkey and made it 2 weeks but then it was time for my norco refill so I'm right back where I started.  I've also been getting fentanyl patches for my "pain". Instead of wearing them, me and my best friend figured out a way to abuse them to feel a buzz, since neithere of us feel anything but "normal" by taking pills.  I'm glad to know I'm not alone but I don't see any answers for me.  It's not possible for me to go to rehab, and I don't want to anyway.  I'm just so sick of pills being my life, controlling my life, never being happy even when I do have my pills 'cause I feel guilty and am worried about when I'll get more took my last norcos today and don't go to doc til june 4 unless I come up with some $$$ and go to another doctor.  The city I live in it's so easy to get them from a doctor- all you need is cash for a "lefitamte" script- cheaper than buying on the street.  These doctors here are no better than steet dealers- all you need is cash or good insurance. This is my first post & I hope I can find a way to end this madness

[rodewc]

nah, I'm ok. The 2 major probs (or mebbe they're solutions) (WTF knows?) Anyhoo, (in regards to the tears), the probs are:

1. female
2. W/Ds

and the pity party arrives every so often, ya know?

:) rwc~

[grace521]

I don't know if my post was the "pity party" you were referring to.  If so I apologize. I thought this forum was a place where I could express my feelings and find some people in the same boat as me.  Seems like you think you're better than me and if female problems supercede whatever your drug problem is well too bad for you.  I hope all the people on this site are'nt like you- I'll try another thread- I wasn't looking for pity, just understanding and maybe some empathy

[lisabet]

Hey Grace - I don't think rodewc was refering to you when she mentioned the "pity party".  She and I had talked before about peri-menopausal "hell"..smile.  I believe she was probably referring to herself.  I totally understand your ups and downs concerning the pills. You sound like you're taking the first step and admitting you have a problem and want help...good for you!  That's a huge step all in itself. I would advise you to read all the posts on the forum; you'll find a lot of good advice and life experiences.  Also, you might want to check out the Thomas recipe for those who want to try the cold turkey method; it really helps!!!!  It's posted all over the forum; I think someone posted it on one of the top threads. Good luck to you and keep posting....Love, Lisabet

[Jerri2]

Hi Sweetie!I sent out to many e'mails today and it wouldnt let me send anymore!So I couldnt respond to yours!I'm ok I guess! Speaking of menapause I've been going through it for 5 + yrs!I dont know if my hot flashes are from it or wds!!Probably both!!!I'm back on day 4 or 5 I dont remember!I figure if I keep trying one of these times its going to work!!!Hope your doing good sweetie!!  Love ya Jerri

[rodewc]

Grace, Hope you are well. I was referring to myself, and only to myself... a female, an old female, who feels sorry for herself. Some days on the roller coaster when my emotions have meltdowns, it does feel like a pity party! No fun! Wahhh!

But, the post was addressed to vet who had asked me a Q. The response was a joke back at vet. (about emotional days)

The internet isn't a good medium to relay intent behind messages; next time I will use-->  :))))

Facial Expressions!

Sry @ the confusion.
rwc~

[vettezr1]

Whew, I was just keeping my mouth shut I thought I did or said something wrong and didn’t want to make it worse by sticking my foot in my mouth. Thanks for clearing it up.
Hope you are feeling better.

[rodewc]

Whooo Baybee. Yea, I feel Great. The Thomas Recipe ROCCCKS:)) I absolutely have had the most incredible day. .... Day __ (scared to saY)

rw/c