Will it always be like this?

[Oxyclean]

I have a question that I think most people think about often. Once you are addicted to pain pills, are you always addicted? Does this mean we are never to take them again? What do you do in that case if you need them for an accident or an operation? I stopped taking Oxycontin for two weeks and took a dose last night. Will I go through withdrawal again? I flushed the rest of the pills so I won't be tempted again. I do need them for pain, but just can't do this anymore! Thanks for your help.......

[Vicqueennomore]

Great question!!! I know we tried to post this question before but now that there are sooooooo many restrictions on this forum it has taken almost a week to get this question answered.
REX1 and B'BELT you will be sincerely missed....
DAY 23 woohoo, feel like **** cuz I caught the flu/cold I was nursing the little guy last week with.
Stay strong everyone...believe in yourself!!!
Tammy

[Bodymechanic]

I haven't posted in a while.  Some of you have emailed me checking if I was doing all right.  I do appreciate all of your concern and support. Part of overcoming the obsession with drugs is to stop constantly thinking about them.  Posting and reading daily seems to keep me focused on the problem rather than the solution.  In that regard, support groups are a double edged sword.  I have intentionally greatly reduced the amount of time I spend thinking about drugs and try to pay more attention to being a better husband, father and professional.

I was attracted to this post because it made me wonder if I could ever escape my past.  Unfortunately, the answer for me is no.  I started taking drugs way too young and took them for way too long.  I have come to terms with the fact that I have permanantly damaged the part of my brain that controls mood, sleep, pain and motivation.  I can stay clean and I have for long periods of time.  But it is a day and night struggle against pain, sleeplessness and depression.  My life is simply much happier and more productive if I use an opiate drug.  I try to use only what I really need.  I use as much control as I can with the help of my understanding wife.  I have been using buprenophine for almost 3 months now.  I try to keep my usage to no more than 1mg a day.  This is a relatively low dose considering the proposals of 8-32 mg a day that are being suggested for addiction. At 1mg a day I still have some pain and difficulty sleeping. I did much better at doses closer to 2 mg.  I think it is better that I try to stay at the lower doses.  Buprenorphine is very expensive, hard to get as well as being addicting in it's own way.  I would dread the thought of having an 8mg or more habit a day and beening suddenly cut off a greedy or insensitive medical practioneer.

I do think and pray for all who suffer with this disease, addiction or choice.  Whatever name you call it, our lives are permantly changed in a way that only we here can understand.


Find peace, find love


Bodymechanic  

[straightjacket]

if you took 1 pill and you have been clean as long as you said you wont go thr wd might have a drug hangover , you should be proud of yourself for drowing those little basterds .

[WifeofAddict]

I just wondered if anyone saw the State of the Union (Bush's Speach) last night?  Did anyone catch the part about helping those addicted to drugs?  Did you hear what he said?  It was something like, we need to become a compassionate society towards those addicted, and we need to help them.  He also made a direct comment to those addicted...by saying something supportive...can't remember exactly.  I was clapping...i couldn't believe what i was hearing...it was like he was answering all of our prayers!  Hopefully, that part of his speech does not get ignored.  I hope everyone got a chance to see it...it was really uplifing for me to hear the President and an attempt to understand the suffering persons addicted feel.  Anyways, if you didn't catch it...i am sure they will have reruns CNN or something.  
Take Care!
Catherine
By the way Bodymechanic, i am glad to hear you are doing well.  I can understand that talking about drugs, reading about drugs, would make it hard for one not to crave drugs.  Keep doing what is right for you and your family and you will be fine.
Oxy, from what i have heard, and experienced...once an addict, always an addict.  I think that if you are having surgery or something of that nature, then pain meds are appropriate, however, they should be monitored and kept out of your reach.  For safe measure.  My husband has to get his wisdom teeth out and he is 2 months sober, so we don't really know what to do.  We are just going to see how much pain he is in...and go from there.  I have decided if he is in a lot of pain...i may just give him a muscle relaxer and put him to bed.  I don't know.  We will just see when the time comes.  One day at a time!  Take Care
Catherine

[FINISHED!!]

Just wanted to say thanks for poking your head in on us. You are doing what you have to do to stay away from addiction & that's understood. Just know that you are GREATLY appreciated here.

FINISHED!!

[teeitup]

Great post, thanks for your support! Good luck!

teeitup!

[teeitup]

I don't know where to begin, I'm totally at a loss for words over what's happening in this forum. Over the past few months I've seen it grow because of the unconditional support everyone gives each other. I've seem some members attack others, disagree whatever but in the end try and help one another. I truly hope the board adm. looks hard at their last acts in banning certain memembers. We need as many different opinions, views, beliefs and personality types as possible in this forum. If you disagree with someone do it in a tactful way and try not and read between the lines of what someone says or what words they choose to use! Remember we need each other, don't be selfish in your own beliefs!

teeitup!!

[FINISHED!!]

WELL SAID TEE!!!

FINISHED!!

[stag27]

I have been addicted to painkillers for the last 4 years. I have half heartedly tried to get off of them but to no real avail, now I have found myself trully ready to "kick the habit".  For those of you who have had similar stories I ask you, how do you stop the contiual thoughts about the drug? It is a 24/7/365 thing. The fact is when I do give in, the euphoria is not what it use to be, and the dosage has to be increased. Any thoughts, comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

[Vicqueennomore]

Read every single one of these threads. That's where I started. Then give yourself 3-4 days free to detox and use the Thomas Receipe. You will find it on one of these threads, if not someone has it or we can find it for you.
We are here for you, day 23 without Vicodins ES 12-15 a day and climbing.....

[stag27]

What is the Thompson recipe?

[Vicqueennomore]

Look under the Loraab Withdrawls question in this forum under thread #c28. It has the Thoams Receipe.

[Erika_Ann]

Hi everyone! Ive missed you all! :(    My doctor gave me Ultram. Its 50mg 3 times a day. Now that I am off vicoden is this going to make it worse? I take it for my arthritis and it helps, but I have heard mixed thing on this drug. Does anyone have any comments or advice? Thanks for any input. I couldnt post a question to the doc. Its full as usual.....UUUGGGHHHH,,,,,
Sincereley,
Erika

[Vicqueennomore]

Missed you. Although I know nothing of Ultram some say it is addicting but I truely beleive that it depends on the individual because I have a whole bottle of SOMA & a 1/2 bottle of Valium and I can take it or leave it....give me an opiate and i'm hooked. If it takes care of your pain and you are taking as directed I wouldn't worry too much about it. Pain relief is as important as recovery.....
How's Mr. Wonderful? Hope more supportive....
Lots of love to you.....

[Erika_Ann]

Thanks for the laugh. Mr supportive? Ya, right! :(   Ha Ha
I appreicate your comment. Ive missed you girl...... :) I was so happy to hear from you! DOnt loose touch okay? Love, Me

[minime]

I cannot believe that Rex and B'Belt were banned.  They were two totally supportive members, which should NEVER have been banned. This is America - home of free speech and free choice of religious practices.

I almost fell off my chair when I read that they won't be here anymore.  I think the people that did the complaining about them should take a looong, hard look at themselves and ask why it bothered them so much.  I remember at least one person making negative comments about their posts, and I'll tell ya, I get alot more out of Rex and B-Belt's posts than I do her's.

Please, please let them back - they were great members!!!

[Vicqueennomore]

WELL SAID!!!!
I 2ND THE MOTION!!

[Vicqueennomore]

I am not going anywhere, that I know of, so I am here. I wasn't this weekend, cold & flu season is here in the midwest....and I got a bad tast of it. Actually feeling a little better today...
Glad you are too....

[Erika_Ann]

YOU HAVE SEEMED TO **** ALL OF OFF, YOUVE PUT OUR ANXIETY LEVEL AT A WORSEN STATE. DONT TAKE THEM OUT. YOU REASON IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. TO EACH HIS OWN. ONE THING TWO.... WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO TAKE AWAY TWO PEOPLE THAT HELP US ALL? ANSWER THAT ONE... ILL WAIT FOR THE REPLY.......

[HarleyCat]

J.E.W. (jerri) was also banned.  She wanted everyone to know that she is still able to read the forum, just not post.  She loves all of you!!

Admin,  I do not understand how this could happen!  You took three of the most supportive members away from us.  Could you not have simply warned them?  This is very harsh treatment for people who need kindness and love.  I was under the impression that this place was to HELP those that are addicted, not to harm them.  Why is this forum here, anyway?  

I think that you have done a great disservice to the rest of the forum.  Folks, I wonder what would happen if there was no one left to moderate?

In case I get banned for that last statement, my email is ***@****

Connie  (Big Brother is Apparently Alive and Well)

[Esmith28]

I didnt see anything about them getting banned...where is that? I have never heard anything negetive to anyone on this forum maybe I wsnt reading all of them..hmmm weird

About the ultram ...that is what brought me here...I was reading up on ultram and this forum came up..I guess since it contained the word...ok this is MY opinion..suzie I think told me she had TERRIBLE withdrawls from it..it is not a high giving med...but I have a friend who takes it everyday and has for years..he tried to come off it three times and his depression was soo bad he had to go back on...be careful also if you already have a depression problem or you take something for depression I would say it isnt for you...I should rephrase that...It isnt for me....research it and make your own desicion...goood luck...

Anyone who wondered my epideral  went GRAET...the doctor was aesome, he taught me more and spent more time with me than any doctor in tow years...he was shocked , disgusted and mad about what my doctors did tome, I told him everything and he thought it was wrong...I toldhim I took two at a time since one didnt cut it after two years of taking them and that I would usually tke a half more to get me to my eve dose...he said that wasnt toomuch for the pain I was in and he offered to talk to both docs..I told him I didnt care about the back doc that he sucked anyway. But I loved my reg doc...but the bridge had already been burned by him and I wouldnt forgive him for doing that tome without even talking tome. He offer me his doctor and he gave me a prsciption for my meds with two refills (no doc has EVER given me refills)I wanted to kiss him...so being the bad bad addict I have only taken two doses in two dys and I am feeling unbelieveable relief from my pain from the back block. So I am going to try to not to take then unless I need them...it just felt good for  adoctor to finally stick up for me and to understand the pain I was in...and to tell me abuse would have been if I was taking a weeks worth in three to four days...I am going to really be put to the test now to see if I can handle it...we will see.. Finished and suzie and all others how are in such pain how are you doing????

[Esmith28]

I cant believe that JEW was banned from posting too..now that was someone who helped me sooo much..why? And how did yall find out about this? doesnt it say above that this is patient to patient COMMENTS and not monitored by forum staff?? I guess that is not true...well that is not right...maybe we can find a way to create our own forum...

[HarleyCat]

Yeah!  Oh honey, I am so proud of you.  I know what a relief it is to finally find a doc that believes you!  God knows we don't make up this kind of pain.  I am so proud of you for taking this step.  You suffered so much last week.  Yeah!  It restores you faith in the human race.  Or at least the doctor race!  :)

REx, B'Belt and J.E.W. all got banned for their religous beliefs.  I have never read any post that ever pushed anyone about religion.  I guess just saying that "I'll be praying for you." is nasty and must not be tolerated.

I found out because Jerri emailed me.  She wants everyone to know that they are still able to read the posts.

I'm so happy for you Elizabeth!  What a miracle!  (That's probably going to get me banned) LOL

Connie

[Esmith28]

Yes this procedure was a miracle I woke up today and felt so much better...if anyone pain can be helped by a spinal injection of steriods DO IT...it works best I think for someone with disc problems...but it is worth finding out...the true test will be if I am not in pain will I still take the meds...LOL it is funny when I went to the pian clinic to get relief from my pian and shouldnt feel anymore ofter that I got more meds than before...funny how that works...but I am going to be VERY careful...but yes it was sooo nice to find a doc that understood and felt noone should have to live with cronic pain...
Love to you all
and GOD BLESS YOU...isnt that how I always singed off??? Why am I not banned?

[hippy]

its wensday, and rex and b- belt and j.e.w
were all banned.
i guess the fourm heads just want to keep the post here
on the topic  of addiction and they want the  members
to keep thier personal beleifs in religion  to themselves.

it is not  really a bad thing, they always say religion and politics make bad bed fellows.
they both can bring contraversy.
i am sure rex and b belt and j.e.w will find or start a
fourm  where they can share thire experence with religion and addiction, they will be fine.
this fourm is a very good fourm and helps a lot of people
getting off meds and also dealing with chronic pain when they have to take pain meds.
i too will miss them on this fourm , but i will stay in contact
with them and hope to see them somewhere else.
in the mwan time lets keep on helping the new person here
at medhelp and help each other.

peace !!!!!!!!!!!!!hippy

[suzieneedshelp]

CAn u e-mail me plz?  ***@****
Thx,
Suzie

[Son4]

I took the Ultram for 6 months for Fibro it finally gave me stomach trouble so they switched me to Ultracet! That was good I think not sure never thought of it being addictive ?? I have had a triple discectomy and fusion 4 years ago and not sure if it was the surgery or what then the fibro showed up and all the pain to make matters worse seems the surgery on C 4-5-6 has now bellied up and I am looking at a resurgery but not until we find the cause of the mystery illness that I am on the Vicodin for !!All this to ask you about the epidural for pain Can you explain it to me a bit and is it something that would get me off all other pain meds ??? Thanks ahead of time Son4

[suzieneedshelp]

Dear dear hippee you have such an eloquent way with words to always calm and ease pain.   Physical and emotional pain.  We are so lucky and priviledged to know you my dear!
Peace to you and your family!
Hugs!
Suzie

[hippy]

thanks suz,
i am just like everyone else tho
just an addict ,getting another day.
and grateful to be alive.
over the years being around  a lot of people
with addictive personalities , i have learned to respect
other people where they are.
i was once told the ony real thig that makes us different
is our willingness to surrender to our reality.
when we can get along with others it bodes well
for us when we enter into depper relationships like marrage.
as addicts our nature is to be rebels, we cam argue both sides
of most argurments.
when someone tells us to sit down we stand up.
that is the nature of the addictive personality.
on our bad days we would rather be right then presedent.
learning to allow others to be wrong or make mistakes
takes  a mature outlook on life.
as addicts we are senitive and stuborn.
but we are all very inteligent people
like i have said before , we can be the best at what ever
we chosse too. As addicts we tend to be extremist, we take things to one extreem or the other.
if we can't win at somthing we would rather not even play.
when we put down the drugs we fid ourselves substuteing
the drugs for something else, like gambaling, food , relationships, shopping, working, .etc etc.
when we are using drugs we don't get into realationships
we take hostages.
peace !!!!!!!!hippy--- just some general thoughts

[minime]

It's a forum that tends to get rid of anyone remotely controversial.  People here talk about ways to scam a pharmacy or doctor, what medications make opiates react more strongly, online pharmacies, etc - BUT there can be no talk of God or Jesus?

AA has proven to be a very effective way to maintain sobriety.  The twelves steps work - having a higher power works. Anyone who has given the 12 step approach their true 100% effort will tell you that it works.  It mostly doesn't work for those who go to a couple meetings and then say it's not for them.

Giving up control to your "higher power" gives a person such a feeling of freedom - the heavy burden of guilt is lifted.

I really resent those that couldn't just scroll by Rex's posts.  That type of thinking is so UNAMERICAN!  I really wish that the member that complained would be banned - maybe she should move to Iraq where everyone has to believe the same thing.

[Vicqueennomore]

I am really going away from todays forum and the topic of people being banned but I was having a conversation with the BF on genetic makeup and addiction and how I fear my children have a chance of becoming addicts and which one, if any, become an addict who it would be. I say it would be the one who sucked her thumb and bites her nails. I am curious on how many addicts sucked their thumb when they were little. I did. My brother did not. I am an addict, my brother is not. Am I on to something here?
Even if it was a pacifer or whatever, I think there might be a connection....just curious.
BTW- I did warn my children of the addiction that plaques our family, grandfather, uncle, etc....(didn't confess mine though)

[hippy]

hey there , i agree with everything you said.
i will miss those guys not being here.
i still email with rex and will stay in touch with him.
i found his post inlighting and commpasionate.
i m sure i will see him at another fourm.
i also gave him my phone number to stay in touch.

peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hippy

[suzieneedshelp]

I a m not sure if some posts are directed at me.  Plz look back at my comments.  I did not complain... as a matter of fact..  I said i am Christian and believe the religious comments relevant.  I am very envolved in AA and beleive in the 12 step program.  I have been member of this board for longer than most and know how it operates.  I have seen past actions and comments by the Administrators and so my post was only a concern that WUT happend might  just happen.  You were not here when Phil and Cindi used to post their concerns quite regularly.  I was here .  Lately they have been silent for some reason.  It used to be that ANY nonaddiction post was remarked on.  but NOW many of our posts are not directly related to addiction AND HAVE GONE WITHOUT COMMENT BY THE aDMINS.  I do not agree with wut happened.  I was just concerned about some very specific references to one religion that may be of concern to the ADmins.  WEll it was.  My concern was for any new member who is nonbeliever or not ready for the  spiritual aspect of recovery to misunderstand the forum and its focus and to leave here without getting the help they so desparately needed.  I never complianed to anyone here or anywhere!
Peace and if it was not me you were referrring to well then i apologise for this post.    
Suzie

[suzieneedshelp]

The intention of my original post was so just this would never happen!  So those who were not aware of forum policy would tone it  down just a little.  Because i greatly valued their participation on this forum!  REx and j e w are friends of mine.  
Suzie

[freezing]

I have heard that once addicted to heroin, one has a lifelong change in brain chemistry.  I have a friend who did recover from a long term heroin addiction and seemed normal with no ill effects after several severe relapses.

Several doctors I have seen all say there is a difference between being addicted and being physiologically dependent.    I disagree.

I have found that some doctors will continue to increase prescriptions to chronic pain sufferers, which is OK, but they have no long term plan, or solution, to the dependency to high levels of powerful opiates that they must know they are facilitating.

I was really glad to hear Bush last night show support for addicted persons, wanting to allocate $600million to help people like us.  The big question is:  what will those funds go to?  The Subutex possibilities could be awesome.  I am counting on it.  I wish methadone would become available from private addiction doctors without having to do the clinic every day.  Those lines, and being chained to town, unable to go away for a day, or on vacation, is horribly inhumane, and should be changed.  It is an incredible medicine, if only it was readily available.  I would go on it for life if it was readily available.  Any others been there w/methadone maintenance?

If anyone has insight on recovery from methadone dependence, timeframes, symptoms, and solutions, please post some comments, or feel free to email me at ***@****.

I hope that we are not all messed for life.  I feel very strongly like I am.  I suffer w/d's every day and night and am on opiates around the clock, as prescribed, no abuse.  It stinks!!  

Well wishes.  Thanks.  -freezing

[Witchywoman]

Hi everyone, I'm still around, just taking an internet break these days, but wanted to post and say  hello.  I'm not privy to the whole people getting  banned thing...so I don't know what to say about that except I'm sorry to see things stirred up.

I do agree with the Doc's response to this question.
I've been officially clean since August 26 2001, but there have been a few occassions where my pain spiked to the point of needing  pain meds. I freaked when that happened, but it was ok. I didn't relapse back into hell. Through my choice I gave my  husband control of the pills, and took them only when my pain went higher than 8. It is usually around a 5 to 7, that is my daily pain state, and I've learned to live with that. It's better than the hell of being a slave to a pill was, that's for sure!

Just wanted to check in and say hi, and hope everyone is doing ok.  I'll post more when I can, and try to catch up with other posts!

love to all,
WW

[Thomas03]

Welcome back. O Wise One. Is that a new buzz word in psychology circles? It has an unfortunate ring to it.

Glad you're back. When will your "What I did ..." essay be in?

Thomas

[Nod]

WW - nice to read your post. So glad your still doing well clean wise, good for you.  Often wonder how you have been doing.  Whats weird as when you said you have been clean since sometime in 2001, I remember you doing it, and making it thru the WD's and cravings.  Man, has time flown by.  Happy to see you post. You take care.  One day I'll be clean (again) like you and deal with my pain like I must.

Hippee - another fine post above as usual.  I was thinking of going back thru all the threads and putting all your posts together and making a book.  Ahh, just kidding, but sure would be good food for thought for us Obsessive Compulsive addicts!

You guys take care, okay.  Nod

[oxic]

Witchywoman, percs here, welcome back!!!
Hope you are well!!!!

Ironically, the day you re-appear, is my Mother-In-Laws' 90 days today. Imagine clean 90 days after 20 some years....
So far, the intervention seems to have been a great idea. Just thought you'd like to know....as you and many others were a big part of it.  Hope you stick around.

NOD:  How are you doing??? Are you on about day7-8???

Percsnomore

[oxic]

Hi Thomas!!

[hellbent]

Whenever I think about using, I need to actually shut the thought out and think about something else. Either that or think it through. I'll get some OCs, maybe feel great, then tomorrow I will feel terrible about it, but I will have thrown away the gift of being clean, and I will become obsessed, overnite, with the damn things, and will desperately want to do them again, until... well, I do em till I just can't do em. I'll end up dead or homeless, but I won't face another withdrawal like my last one, no way. I've used up any ability to be a recreational user. So, I try to think the whole thing through to it's logical conclusion.

But, if I start romantacizing about how great it will be to chew that first oxycontin, and how good I'll feel, and how maybe I'll call old friends and shoot pool and just have a wonderful release from reality... then I am totally gone. I try to think of something else in those situations.

[HarleyCat]

Too funny about making a book!  While I love this web tv thing I have, I can't print or else I would have already done just that!  And color coded it by author and cross-referenced by subject....Hee hee.  God bless Celexa!!

Connie

PS Hi rex and B'Belt and Jerri.  I'm feeling much better this evening.

[hippy]

hey nod how are you doing
good to seeyour post.
im sure your doing good if your here posting.
im sure how your feeling is a different story.
in any event i hope all is well on your end.

peace!!!!!!!!!!! hippy

[hippy]

i rember the week you did the intervention.

you brought your mother in law up to your place back
in october, she was going to go to aa and meet some
people she could relate to.
where where you somewhere near the greatlakes or canada.
well it's nice to hear the good news.
good news is always wecome in our world.

i hope your good.
peace !!!!!!!hippy

[straightjacket]

i have 20 days clean , today i see my doc and he says that remeron will help me sleep and jump start my burnt out brain , so i took 30 ml as prescribed well that **** made my legs cramp and crawl like i was on day one of wd it has been 10 hours and it hasent stoped , what the f..k , has anyone used remeron , have to go and plant my legs in a snow bank maby i will get some releif ,jew dont make me fly to that dreery rainy place you call home lol e mail me .

[minime]

I purposely didn't put anyone's name on my post but if you were one of the people that complained then I guess it was directed toward you.  Don't make this about me please.  I was sticking up for the right to talk about God and have Him be a part of recovery.  I was sticking up for freedom of speech and freedom to choose your religion.  I was sticking up for a few people here who've brought me great inspiration and are now gone.  This isn't about me.

[freezing]

I was put on Remeron after my detox.  It did not give me any leg or back cramps or spasms, nor any creapy crawlies.  It did put me to sleep in a weird state with mild nightmares.  It also put me in a fog/stupor which I did not like.  I could not stay on it.  I was told to start on 15mg and titrate up to 30, where the activating (norepinephrine) effect starts to kick in.  It is more sedating in the lower doses, lower than 30.  Of course, everyone is diffent.

I put my first fentanyl patch on (50mg) yesterday at 3:30PM and slept through the night without any major sweats, and pretty much slept through.  I am not quite as freezing, but still feel major pain, and do not feel any other effects whatsoever from the fentanyl at this level.  I guess that means my tolerence is still pretty high, and I have a long way to go in tapering down.  Anyone else have experiences tapering from a methadone detox, and/or with fentanyl?  Thanks, and well wishes. -freezing. ***@****

[hippy]

yo mimime  freedom of speech is great, but suz
is a good freind of rex's.
the fourm here at med help has the perogitive to
run this place the way they wish, that is thier freedom.

i am not happy that 3 people got kicked off.

i thought rex was great, along with the others.
but the people who run the fourm are providing a
free service, a non religious one at that to help
addicts suffering from withdrawls along with people with]

other problems connected with drug abuse and chronic pain.

foe anyone to blame or rip or resent others is un called for.

there are other fourms where people can talk freely about
god and addiction, rex has found one of those,
if you are interested ,let it be known and someone will
email you the info.
in the mean time try to be kind and considerate of
other addicts who are suffering. life is tough enough
without someone making it more difficult.
lets all try to work together
and think of the new person just showing up here at med help.
hippy

[minime]

I'm trying to be kind and considerate of others.  I'm not sure what you are talking about but can we just drop it?  I'll check out the other site.

[minime]

How did this become about me anyhow?  A person was making comments about religion and how this isn't the place for it and now 3 people are banned.  How is this about me?  Why is it wrong for me to be mad that 3 people who have really helped me are gone because of something stupid?  I really wish you wouldn't make this about me.  

I think they offered a lot to the board.  I know this isn't a popular belief here but maybe if more people accepted God into their lives, there wouldn't be so much unhappiness.  God was working through those people and now they've been shut out and it's wrong.

OK now I'll drop it.  Can we just have peace between us?  This wasn't about you or me.

[percsnomas]

Thanks Michael for the kind words!!

Yes we kind of yanked her out of Washington, and brought her up to Canada(Calgary); and she is still living with us.....until she gets back on her feet financially. As you can imagine, with that kind of run(drug-wise), it will be some time before she has her head above water. MOST IMPORTANTLY, she really loves her new life. She has done about 100 meetings in 90 days, and has a great sponser. Now we are just waiting on Canadian Immigration, to get her paperwork, so she can resume working.

As always, you are the master at calming things(loved a couple of your posts yesterday/today. THANKS FOR THAT.
Take Care Michael

percs

....how is the nephew doing with his testing?

[WifeofAddict]

WHoooo Hoooo I didn't get banned!  I don't know why i was worried...but i just felt like yesterday was BANNING DAY at the forum.  Phewwwwwwww.  
To New Members,
Welcome to this forum, we are hear to listen and help in anyway we can.  Everyone here has experience with addiction either directly or with a family member, or both.  Many have been through detox, whether it be cold turkey, or taper....and some are just about to start.  There is a mix of everyone here!  It is a wonderful place to talk, and be listened to, and understood.  Please post when you feel ready....we will be here for you.  
To Old Members, (ummm is that insulting?)  hahaha
How is everyone today?  I feel like we had a death in the family this week, and we are all bummed out.  It is a shame about what happened..but by reading the posts of the infamous Rex, Jerri, and B'Belt, they would not want us to keep posting about the injustice of the ban.  They are gone, sad as it is...and there is unfortunatley nothing i know of we can do about it.  So let's keep helping each other, helping new members, and being supportive.  You are all so kind and helpful for me.
Thanks for everything!
Catherine

[diso]

Excellent post above to Stag.  I actually cut and pasted it to a separate document for me to save and read in the future.  I couldn't agree more about how I romanticize just one more oxy.  Of course, it would never stop there.  I think it just comes down to weighing what I want for the moment (using) against what I would give up (my life).  If we can just keep delaying that brief moment to weigh these two things, using never makes much sense.  Thanks for the post.  It has strengthened me today.

[FINISHED!!]

It became about you because you chose to point a factually-unsupported finger at another member. I'm not here to defend nor attack anyone in this matter. The way your comments were perceived may not be the way they were meant. I've chosen to bring this to your attention simply for that reason. We must all use tact in what we insinuate. You too are becoming a valuable member to this forum. Please be careful in what you say, how you say it & who you accuse...without facts. Again, this is not an attack towards you. It'd be easy to place blame on Suzie but without first hand knowledge, it's EXTREMELY unfair & an attack in itself.

FINISHED!!

[suzieneedshelp]

My e-mail has not ben able to receive messages since Wed 1/29.  Please do not use it until further notice.  Thank you,
Suzie

[hellbent]

Hey, thanks. Glad I was some help.

I've had to "think the pill through" more and more recently - job stress and general dissatisfaction has my mind going back to the relief I would feel if I just gave up and gave in. It's always an option to use again, but if I can just think beyond the temporary euphoria and realize what kind of hell I am really in for if I do, and what I stand to lose, I get past it.

[shakarkia]

I am new here and really am amazed that there are so many people out there going through the same things I am....the only thing that bothers me is I really have a question, but for the last few days I can't post one becuase the limit has been reached??  It then asks me if I want to pay 14.95 to ask one??  Frustrating--I really want to know how long it takes to "come down" from methamphetamine---don't get me wrong, I have used my fair share of Painkillers---I really wanted one today, but don't have any and don't want to call for a refill---basically I did meth for about 12 days straight--I did sleep every night, but as soon as I got up in the AM, it would be back to the rails.  I got VERY depressed and threw the rest away on Monday AM,,,,today is Thursday and I am going home from work because I CAN NOT FUNCTION==is this normal?? should I get some detox tea???  I hope I don't get kicked off for asking another question in the comments part...
Thank you,
Karen

[Vicqueennomore]

Welcome, I too am fairly new to this forum and first read every single posting and found it very helpful. I also about 20 years ago got involved with crystal meth in CA. and one day had enough and took myself off. For about a week all I wanted to do was sleep and eat sweets, the rest is a blur. I was in the Navy at the time and taking off work was not an option. I had my CO thinking I was pregnant and he let me go lay down when I needed to. Time pulled me thru that and the determination of getting away from it. I did it for months, lost so much weight when a picture of me was sent to my family they didn't reconize me. The crystal is an upper, a mood elevator and I can't see why the Thomas Receipe wouldn't work for you. Although, I do not know. I did it for this detox (12-15 a day Vicodin ES addiction). I didn't discover it until day 7 so it's hard to say how much sooner it would have worked and made me feel less miserable sooner, everyone is different. Maybe someone else on this forum would know if it would work for Crystal meth detox.
You didn't say what pain pills you took and how many so it would be hard to say how long detox and how bad it would be....
We are all here with you....
Tammy

[percsnomas]

Firstly here is the Thomas Recipe, formulated for CT detox from opiates. The L-Tyrosine(with Vit. B-6) in the recipe has been used successfully for coke and speed as well.  My mother in law, who detoxed from coke, vikes and xanax, had tremendous success with this combo. Really kept her lethargy(mental and physical) at bay.

THOMAS RECIPE

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (immodium) (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium (immodium) aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.


My MIL continues to take Tyrosine and B-6 (clean 3 months), as it has also kept her depression to a minimum.
Hope this helps.
Take Care

[Vicqueennomore]

I still use the L-tyrosine, 5-htp and b-6 instead of the prozac the dr gave me and my mood is great, now that I am getting back to normal from the flu bug I had this weekend. I will continue to use it as long as it is non addicting and helps me to stay off the narcs. It is non addicting right? Maybe it is replacing the pill taking habit I had, guess it could be worse. I'm trading vitiams for narcs...is it wrong?

[percsnomas]

I'm glad it's working for you also!!!!

Seems to be something that can really help and is NOT addicting. L-Tyrosine is in lots of the foods we eat, just not at a very high  concentration.
And I think you have a very good point about satisfying the physical part of taking a pill. Great trade off!!!

Stay Strong

[suzieneedshelp]

Hey u man!  i am so sorry about yur recent increased struggles.  WE addicts seem to turn to that escape hatch of euphoria when life rears up at us.  Old habits die hard.  It is so hard to truley replace that tendancy with other strategies.  It is not natural for us.  I  myself am struggling with such every day.   And i have pain every day for the last week + (more than 8 days) to remind me of my "need" (as the addict in me would believe ) for opiates.    
Peace to your spirit and mind...
Suzie

[suzieneedshelp]

I have done something to replace an addiction i had.  MrsRAt suggested it and it helps.  Although i find i am doing it less and less.  But the ~~'inhilation'~~ of the narcotic nasal spray  was part of my pleasure of my addiction.    So i got menthol nasaol spray (natural that is not addicting) to give me that burn too.  
Suzie

[Vicqueennomore]

Once I get more of a grip on the Vicodin recovery I am going to try and replace the Nicotine gum I have been chewing for 3 years, to quit smoking, I will replace with sugarless chewing gum, I hope. One thing at a time, I am the opitamy (sp?) of an addict.....quits one addition to start another...

[Jessica5683]

Hi everyone,
it's been a really long time since I have been here. I left because, I wasn't ready to quit and felt I had no buisness beng in here while people are trying there best to get clean. I have my reasons of why I wanted to get clean. The main reason is, My birthday is Feb 17th and I am an adoptee. I met my bio mother back in 96 just for a couple day's and at that time I was not an addict. I don't want to see my Bio mother while being high the whole time. The other main reason was, I made a choice, either clean yourself or end your life cause I coldn't handle the pills taking control of everything I ever did. So here I am, 5 day's clean, strugging really hard, Have I gone through the worst of the withdraws??? and asking for support here. I will be reading posts everyday cause I'm going to need it. I hope by Feb 15th physically I'm going to feel better then I feel now. Will I anybody know???? Oh yah my choice of drug was lorcet 10/650 16 pills a day for three years with maybe 4 weeks trough out the three years of trying to get clean. Today is so hot where I live. It's in the 90's and hot hot hot. I live in calif I'm 35 and just struggling to live life. Thanks for reading Jessica

[freezing]

Talk about will it always be like this, does anyone else get mild w/d symptoms just from starting to read posts on this web site?

If I can stablize at a certain level, will I soon start to feel w/d's at this level even if I don't increase?  While I get no pain relief, I would rather feel the pain, than increase and then have further to taper from.  How can you taper on fentanyl?  Are there non-duragesic types??  It has lesser side effects than oxy or hydro as opiates go (while using, not talking about w/d).  

Nobody has posted or emailed me about w/d from methadone or fentanyl other than one person about methadone and one guy saying w/d's are badddd from fentanyl.  I can't believe more people aren't going through methadone w/d, so if you are, please help me with your insights.  (thx shar).  Also, any detailed fent taper and/or detox details will be really appreciated.  I am really afraid to try another detox.  I think I should stablize for another two months b/c of the methadone.  Any opinions on timeframe for methadone?  (coming off 100mg four months ago)  Thx and well wishes,, -freezing.  ***@****

[oxic]

Hey, Welcome Back!!!!!!
GREAT JOB ON DAY 5-6!!!!!
You should be through most of the hard physical withdrawals, based on your useage. Now likely, you will feel blah; no real energy, emotional,and generally in a "fog". Ive copied and pasted a detox recipe, which could really help you through this brain fog. You shouldn't need the valium, as you are well on your way:Thomas Detox Recipe

PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas

This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (immodium) (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium (immodium) aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you.

JESSICA, you are not alone, and will receive all kinds of support here. You should be very proud of yourself!!!

Please Stay Strong!!(and keep posting)

Percs No More

[oxic]

Hey freezing, the best I could do was copy and paste a response from one of my buds(that got off meth) to someone here. I have NO clue if it is relevant to your gig?? I hope it helps:Hello! I was on Methadone maintenance for about 16 years. My max was only 65mg, but I tapered down to 40mg and stayed there for years.
Today, is day 83 for me completely off the stuff. Still clear in my memory is the rough road I went through to get where I am so far.
There are several methods of detoxing. What works for me may not work for you. It's more of a personal choice on; a. do you want off methadone and b. How do you plan to complete the task at hand?
At 40mg, I went down 5mg per day to 20mg. Personally, I didn't feel much of a problem at all really. But for some, this may not be the same. At 20mg, I went down 1mg per day for 20 days to zero. I remember that I began to feel weak and fatigued at about 5mgs. Two days past and I was at 3mg. This is the point that I "thought" I would be just fine, because while the withdrawals were a little rough, they weren't unbearable. The withdrawals felt the same all the way down to zero. That night, my withdrawals hit me like a freight train. I couldn't sleep, no concentration, my entire body tingled and my blood pressure was high. I'm not telling you all this to freak you out. Just to let you know what to expect. That was important for me to know. What can I expect to "feel" during this process? How long would it last?
I found the people here on medhelp which included some great friends like percsnomas and bmac that walked the walk before me. I also used the "Thomas Recipe" with success during this time. You can find the recipe here by searching the thread or asking for it to be posted.
The first week was a hell of a ride. You won't forget it. It's all you can do to just move around. Take time off from work and just hang in there for the first 5 to 7 days. Make sure you have a vitamin suppliment to take because this will help rebuild your receptors and pathways which have no longer been needed since methadone was onboard.
The second week, I began to move around, take walks, LOTS of hot showers and listen to heavy metal. Loud music seemed to help me keep my mind off the withdrawals for a while. After the first month, you will begin to get your strength back, but you'll notice a marked decrease in your concentration.
Closing in on three months, I can tell you that I feel better than I ever did while on Methadone. There are times when I feel a LITTLE achy, but that is the extent of it.
After doing a little research, I've found that it can take up to 6 months to rid the entire body of methadone.
It's one of the hardest kicks, but I can honestly tell you that it has been WELL WORTH the effort. Anything that life throws at me now, is all gravy.
I hope that this long winded email helps you somehow. If you have any specific questions, please feel free to ask. I'll answer if I can. You're in good hands here. There is a wealth of information from your fellow addicts that far exceed anything a doctor can say or do for you. Knowing is 3/4 of the battle.
My suggestion is that you get a doc to provide the following before you go into full detox;
1. Clonidine (For blood pressure spikes, which coincidentally helps with the effects of withdrawal.)
2. Ambien (or some other benzo to help you sleep. Believe me, you're gonna need it.)
3. Lomodal (For the runs.)
4. 800mg of Ibuprofin 3X daily
5. Robaxin or some other muscle relaxer to help with rls.
Good luck on your quest to regain your life. The road has been well traveled. You don't have to lead the way, just follow the line out of this self-imposed hell.

All the best,
MethMan

If I've already copied this to you, sorry.

Percs

[minime]

It's true what you wrote about "everything else being gravy" compared to kicking Methadone.  Withdrawal is the worst most painful thing I've ever been through and I'll put myself through it many times.  We addicts are all gluttons for punishment.  Those were some good suggestions your friend had. Clonodine has never really helped me because I have low blood pressure and it makes me really dizzy.

Do you know of anything that helps with the sweating/hot flashes?  I HATE that part.

[earlygrayce]

hey man. you know i have admired the success you have had in the past kicking your addictions. i just read your post that those pills seem to be haunting you more and more recently due to stress etc... well i understand being haunted and while you know the size of my opiate habit never approached yours, i do know what it is like to be addicted. remeber the hell you went through withdrawing. well it will happen again. because you, like me, like everyone else one this board, CAN NOT have just one. we have to have ten or twenty. it won't stop and you know that. you know all of what i am saying, probably better than i do. i just am trying to support someone whose effort i have admired from afar. take it minute by minute if you have to. and i hope you succeed. again. take care.
early

[Philip1815]

TEST