Withdrawal From Buprenex

[Schlub]

Does anyone know how long and how severe withdrawal from Buprenex may be?

I've been using it for 2 months, to aid in my detox from the hard stuff. I've tapered down from 4 amps a day to 1, but trying to get below 1 ampule a day is a constant daily struggle NOT to use more. Sort of a death by a thousand cuts situation, if you know what I mean.

So I'm thinking about going cold turkey after I see my addiction doctor today. But I'd like to know what I'm getting into, because I can't afford to be sick for 2 weeks right now and have zero energy and be depressed. A few days, yes. But not 2 weeks.

Any clues? Thanks!

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I know nothing about BUP except what I've read in the past here on this forum.  I was wondering whether your addiction doctor was RXing it to you or what.  I thought that BUP was only used for a few days, possibly less than a week.  Are you trying to get off of a strong opiate like maybe heroine? I was wondering whether your two month use of BUP was related to the amount and potency of your drug of choice?  Good luck!  J.B.

[cindi]

I think I have talked about BUP  before one this forum so frogive me if i soudn repetitive but here goes,,,as you know i had struggled several years ago with a demerol and a you name it i did addiction including  BUP..as a matter of fact the firt drug I shot inot myself was the up....and I did get a nice high  from it....then when i was using the demerol and dilaudid and ran out like on my days off ect...I always kept a stash of BUP on hand for the withdrawals...so if you are using it for detox you can get addicted to it I suppose according to the dosee etc.  I do not know whatdose is used for detox but i had also heard that after a few days or whatever you are supposed to be started to wean down from the BUP  within a certain alloted time frame?  but I can attest to the fact that I did get high from it...be carefull with this stuff...it can be just as addicting.......HEY    guess what I didn't even hijack tis thread.....love to all   cin

[Schlub]

Yes, my doctor is prescribing it and organizing my taper down schedule. There were certain reasons why they prescribed it for longer than the initial 2-week detox period. In any event, it's not that big a deal. We decided (my doc and I) to take it slow, wean me down to almost zip (1/4 amp per day), then deal with what will surely be mild withdrawal symptoms if at all.

It takes about 1 month of constant use of Buprenex to develop a physical tolerance. I can't imagine how someone could get high from it, because it just doesn't have that effect, ebing only a partial opaiate agonist. But hey, getting "high" is a very individual thing, so who knows? The only thing I've ever felt from it is the lack of feeling withdrawal symptoms.

So there it is ... life in the slow lane. Almost 2 months clean of feeling "high" and it feels mighty good, actually.

[ssfr]

question: what states is the bup available in? any ideas?

[skipper]

hey there Schlub!
i can't help you much with your question about bup, but it sure
is good to hear from you! I'm also real happy you've gotten down
to just one amp a day. i would like to hear more about the bup
expierence, as i know next to nothing about it. Would you post
your expierence with it? i'm sure that other people on this for-
um could really benefit if you shared your expierence with this
relativly knew form of detox
keep that angel on your shoulder
kip

[katie r]

I too would like to hear your experience with this. Please share!!!!

[Schlub]

Hey Kip -- good to hear from you again.

Well, Buprenex is truly a wonder drug. I mean, it didn't eliminate all of the bad initial symptoms from heavy opiate withdrawal, but it sure made it a helluva lot easier. That and Clonidine, of course.

The beauty of Buprenex is that you feel nothing from it -- no buzz, no high -- so in that sense it's not reinforcing. It's been, what, 7 weeks since I've been "stoned" on opiates, and I'm learning to live life without that opiate feeling. Going to meetings, etc. I'm really surprised how easy it is. I have almost no cravings, etc.

And the Bup definitely helped. It is supposedly physically addictive, of course (although again, no "reward effects"), but the withdrawals are supposed to be "mild to moderate" as compared to heroin or Vicodin or other pure opiates.

Bup is a partial opiate agonist, not a full one.

If I had it to do over, I might have opted for a rapid Bup detox and taper so that I didn't use it for more than 2 weeks or so.

But then some folks swear that using it for a couple of months helps restore and rejuvenate your dopamine receptors.

Who the hell knows. I just want to be off all drugs, including Bup, so that's what I'll do -- either quickly by going cold turkey or slowly over the next few weeks.

[cindi]

I probably got a nice buzz from the BUP because I had no other drugs in my system at the time?  i don't know....but hten later after the demerol use i used the BUP to help with withdrawals...it was easily available in the medicine drawers at work and it was not locked up with the narcotics    good luck      love to all   cin

[Shea]

Just one little question. I heard the other day that in Canada narcotics can be obtained without a script. I am typing on my lap top as I am heading for the border now..lol I am sure it is not all classes of opiates but I have talked to people that have brought Tylenol#3 (codeine) back. Anyone know about this...****, maybe that would be a good place for this forum to meet in person at the Canadian Border..

Shea

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

A family member brings back aspirin with 8mgs codiene from Canada.  You would have to take four of these to equal one Tylenol #3.  I don't know about anything stronger than that OTC in Canada.

Another family member tell me that it's getting harder and harder to get meds like fioricet or vicodin from Mexico. At least that is the case in Juarez and some of the other border towns.  Has anybody else experienced this?  J.B.

[skipper]

hey there:
if you go to Canada to get 8 mg of codiene mixxed with tyelenol,
beter tak a wheel-barrow with you to start toting your liver around in. if person is going to do this there is a very simple
method to seperate the codiene out. just plug opiates into your
search engine.

you can buy any drugs you want in the pharmacys in mexico. there
are laws against posessing these very drugs. the local police
enforce these laws selectively, so if you head on down there to
take a little rx vacation, don't forget to have enough money
to buy your self out of trouble!

[skipper]

schlub:
hey just wanted to tell you, don't be a stranger. let us know how
it goes from time to time. you know it's the strength that you
share when your growing is what the rest of us need most of all!

[Witchywoman]

Wow.

That last comment you made to Schlub really hit home for me.
It is so true.

Have I told you lately how much I respect you?

wow.

thank you.

WW

[skipper]

WW:
ok, ok i stole that one too (i told you i was a thief) i think it
came from a Hoyt Axton song called "less than the song."
my poor head is full of 50 years of hard living- but there was
always music and words--my own someone- elses most of the good
stuff is someone elses. very little of what i write measures up to
an "archetyple standard." writing is very dangerious (at least for
me). i usually hate things i write because it doesn't measure up
to the things in this world that are truely beautiful like my wife,
the man who helped me get clean the first time around. so writing
is dangerious and self loathing usually comes real silent and real
swift.

**** listen to me...i'ld rather tell you about kip the thief &
junky.

you know what to put on your shoulder!!!
kip

[Witchywoman]

heh heh
You remind me of Hermes, the Greek God. He is the trickster, the sacred thief. He invented a musical instrument called the lyre to lull Zeus to sleep and then stole his herd animals..LOL
I've got a statue to Hermes on one of my altars at home.  

Stealing medicine for your people is holy work. And words my friend, are medicine. At least yours have been for me.

Never think you don't matter or haven't had an impact. I'm living proof that you have.

lots of love,
WW

[skipper]

IT's really good to hear things are working out for you. don't be a stranger!
kip

[Marryanne]

Hello!  I went on the buprenex detox a year ago and I was only on the bup for 3 days (along with clonodine and baclofen) and it was relatively easy.  I did get very sick with a sinus infection though (unrelated) so I actually felt worse from the sinus infection.  I went to a doctor in NJ who would only give 3 syringes (preloaded with buprenex) and a prescription for baclofen (for muscle aches) and clonidine (for high blood pressure).  He charged 240.00 and you had to go back in three days (when the bup ran out) for another 3 days worth (and pay them 240.00 again) if your withdraw was still bad at that point and you needed more.  I am interested in using the buprenex again.  My question to you is:  What state do you live in that you are getting amps of bup?  Does your doc give you the drug in his office or a prescription? and if he gives a prescription, What does it say (on the script) it's being prescribed for?  Thanks for any help you can give me! I am going to AA meetings to help myself also.  I quit drinking and want to stop taking the opiates too.   God Bless, Maryanne

[Schlub]

Witchywoman & Kip,

Thanks for remembering me. Who'd a thunk I was that noticeable?

My addiction doc said we should stick with the taper down, & that a few "bumps in the road" (me having trouble sticking to the taper) are nothing to worry about.

"You're an addict," he said, "since when do you get from A to B in a straight line?"

Hmmm, good point. Anyway, he said not to worry, and that he had total confidence that I'll get off the Bup soon and be okay.

I like this guy, I really do.

I'll check in from time to time. Thanks again.

[Schlub]

My doctor prescribes Buprenex and I pick it up at Walgreens (not every pharmacy carries it, but most can order for next day dleivery). As for *why* I'm taking it, that's no one's business, including the pharmacist. Depending on which state you live in, Buprenex is either fairly strictly or fairly lossely controlled. In California & Massachusetts, I know, the doc can simply phone it in. Maybe in some states that's not the case.

If you're desperate, you can also order Bup from www.healthcarepharma.com. Their Bup injectable is temporarily unavailable, but they have Bup in tablet form (just do a search for "Bup" on their site) but you need to be sure to get Bup **without** any other drug in it. And try to match the .3 mg dosage used in the amps. 1 or 2 tablets under the tongue.

But be careful -- you could get seriously addicted to Bup.

In fact, I won't let myself order Bup from this site or any other site. Because if I start medicating myself, I'm back to dope and then I'm dead.

I promised myself and my family that from now on, the only meds I will take are the meds prescribed by a doctor who knows of my addiction problem.

[skipper]

schlub:
you sound as if your on the way out of la, la, land. one less
dross eater out in the cold tonight- eh?
after reading your last post i don't know why but i started to think about a song by Micky Newbury. I don't know if you remember
back that far. well micky newbury is one of the best songwriters
ever, so of course he is from texas. any how here are the lyrics
to: Saint Cecelia the song your last post got me thinking about.

ST. CECELIA is in her garden picking paper violets
For all the wide-eyed children sadly clinging to her dress
Singing blesed be the heavenly to Hell with all the rest
Her salvation is her virtue her sin her emptiness

Crying I'm unfeeling she turns into her shell
Well how can i be like jesus I have just begun myself
To find my own way back in time I think
I know me well
But at other times a stranger stands
Just where my body fell

Do you think about me ever now and then
Do i ever cross your mind
Sounds like old man winter just threw his fiddle to the wind
I sure need to hear from a friend today

St. Ceclia's in her garden singing come into the fold
But all the little children would rather rock and roll
Singing blessed be what is to be away with all thats old
Oh the silence it is golden but the loneliness is cold
*micky newbury*

i guess it's the second verse where he says the stuff about where
a stranger stands where my body fell. I felt like that when i
walked away from my first heroin detox.

anyhow goodluck and don't be a stranger!
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[Schlub]

"Keep an angel on your shoulder."

I don't know why, it gives me chills. And you're right, that song was resonant, as all songs of loss and perhaps redemption are to me.

I just posted on another addiction forum to a guy who was caught in that feeling of utter exhaustion and loss of motivation that affects many after opiate detox. I know his fear because it's my greatest fear in life right now. If I don't "show up" every day full of vim & vigor, my family will not eat.

So it terrifies me that I may feel it when I'm off the last little bit of Buprenex in a couple of weeks.

But my wife is great. She says don't worry, if we have to sell the house and move to ******* Idaho because I can't make money anymore than that's what we'll do. I lucked out with this woman.

Does addiction turn us into wimps? I used to have some fortitude -- hell, I was a war correspondent in Afghanistan for years between 1979-1987! Where's my guts? Where's my strength?

I'm rambling, so let me do you one back by quoting an Afghan love poem (the Afghans are NOTHING like the Taliban -- they're a joyful and playful people). It's entitled, "Dauntless":

"I am caught in love's web so deceitful
none of my endeavors turned fruitful
I knew not when I rode the high-blooded steed
that the harder I pulled its reins, the less it would heed.
Love is an ocean with such a vast space
no wise man can swim it in any place
But true lovers should be faithful to the end
and face together life's crooked trend
When you see things hideous, fancy them neat
Eat poison, but taste sugar sweet!"

[skipper]

shlub:
just a thought: Have you ever heard of or seen Tom Gutier (spelling!!)i work at the same university as this--person!!
keep the angel on your shoulder!!!
kip

[Leigh]

Did the Buprenex help with the psychological withdrawal--ie, your energy level, zest for life without opiates, obsessive thoughts to use again, etc. Or just the physical symptoms? My problem is not the physical stuff--that I can handle. I don't love it, but I can cope. The psychological stuff, however, gets me everytime.

[Schlub]

Yes, I know of him. An anthropologist, right?

And yes, the Bup helps with the physical and psychological symptoms of withdrawal because it, too, is an opiate (albeit a "partial opiate agonist"). So as a med to help you detox, it's really quite effective. And it doesn't produce any euphoric effects so you get out of the habit of feeling that "high."

There are other drugs that can help with cravings as well that are not opiates. Bromocriptine has been somewhat effective in reducing cravings, Wellbutrin also but less so. And if you're worried about relapsing, you can always go on Naltrexone, which prevents you from getting "high" should you take dope again. It lasts several days in your system, so even if you decide to get high one day, you'll have a couple of days to rethink that decision while waiting for Naltrexone to leave your system.

[skipper]

Schlub:
about Tom Gutier-- I'm not real sure what he is. At my university
he is dean of international studys dept. and also heads up the
dept (project ?) of afghan studys. during the russian conflict in
afghanistan he pulled in federal grants of 5 million a year. Our
university tv dept is the only station that can uplink to the
networks. Tom Gutier has been doing a lot of live uplinks in the
past few weeks! I've preformed services for this guy in the capicity of doing my job. He's one of those people who can be real pleasent when he gets what he wants....
anyhow he knows every arab student by name. most of these students want nothing to do with him. several years ago i had two young arab men who were student workers. neither one of these young men had much to say about Tom. when i asked about all they would say is he is not what he appears to be???
Personally i think he's an *******, and we almost got rid of him,
but current events and new fed govt. grants means we will have to
put up with this primo-donna for a few more years! he supposedly
is the formost authority on Afghanistan in the western world. He
even has afghanys who work for him and they dislike him too. Just
wondered if you had ever heard or come across him in your line of
work.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[Schlub]

Like I said, I've heard of him and doubtless read his work.

But I never met the guy.

[Marryanne]

Thanks for your reply on the Bup.  I am gonna check out that site and order it.  I just want three days worth to get me off of the percocet without too much of a physical withdrawal. I am down to 5 or 6 endocet per day.  This is just where I was last year when I took the Bup for three days and it worked like a charm.  I just don't want to pay 240.00!!!  Anyway, the reason I asked "why?" you were taking it because some states don't allow Bup to be prescribed for withdrawal, only for pain relief (I'm in NJ and I don't think they allow it here)  I didn't mean to be too nosy!  :)  I wanted to go to a doctor and get a legitimate prescription since I have insurance.  Thank you for your help. and God Bless to all!  Love, Maryanne

[Schlub]

It doesn't have to be -- in fact, legally it can't be --prescribed "for withdrawal."

It's been around for a while and is prescribed for pain.

[Marryanne]

I went to Healthcarepharma today to order the buprenex and guess what?  They only had something called, "Buph" in 0.2mg SL pill form for $47.00.  I don't know if it's the same thing or not, so I did some research on alot of pharmaceutical sites and the ones I checked said that Buprenex is only availabe in injectable form.  I don't think my regular Doc would give it to me in injectable form (he would prefer to prescribe me oral stuff).  Are there any other sites you know of that might provide it in injectable?  I hate to go back to that other Doc (that I went to last year and pay the $240.00).  I already have the clonidine and baclofen so now I just need the Bup.  Anyone know if Bup is available orally?  Cindi?  Anyone?  Thanks, Mare

[Schlub]

That Buph sublingual .2mg tab from healthcarepharma works fine. It's almost the same strength as Buprenex injectable (.3 mg), so if I was detoxing, I'd probably try 2-3 tabs under the tongue and if that wasn't enough take 4, every 6-8 hours for a day or two. Then reduce. In early detox, the most I ever used at one time was 3 amps, or .9 mg total. Usually I just used 2 amps.

[cindi]

On my way to email someone who may have an answer..............hang tight....

[Schlub]

By the way, Maryanne, you said you checked other pharmaceutical sites and found Buprenex available in injectable form. Do you need a prescription for these sites, or can you just place an order? Also, I wasn't clear whether you wanted oral or injectable? And incidentally, most detox facilities use Buprenex injectable **sublingually** -- i.e., you squirt it under your tongue and hold it there 5 minutes, just like you do with the tabs.

[cindi]

I"ll probably get balsted for this but when i worked at the hospital BUP was so easy to get that was the first drug I shot into my body  it was not even locked up in the narc cabinet....****  if only I was still there,,see there I go again  this is why I cannot go back into nursing..Ihave this habit of stealing narcotics...i emailed a friend and i am waiting for a reply..hang tight  love cin

[Marryanne]

Thanks so much.  I will be waiting for your reply.  Schlub - I meant that I did research on "Buprenex" in general to find out what form it came in, not on sites to order but just in general.  I'm sorry if I made you think otherwise and I want to thank you for your responses.  Good luck to all and God Bless, Mare  ps - Cindi - I'll be waiting and I appreciate it SO much.  I am so ready........

[skipper]

Schlub:
it's been awhile since the forum has heard from you. how are things
coming along? have you gotten free from bup yet? please let us know
how thigs are going.
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[Schlub]

Yes, thanks as always skip.

I'm off the buprenex now 10 days, gaining strength and motivation
slowly each day. Still onlu opertating at aboout 40% peak efficiency, letharguy and losed oof will are a problem.

But I see blight atbthe ened orf the tunnel. This weakness is survivabale, though not necessarily pleant. But I'm, on the right track. I got a 3wife that cares for my every need when I feel like collapsing flat on my back, so I'm very lucky there.

I'm curious abouytmething though. I'm supposed to have gum sergery and dental implants within the next couple of montrhs. Now I know that opiateson't have the same euphoric effects when used for actual pain, but here's my qiuestion. Let's say I need Vicodin for 5 days after surgery. Given my predispowition to addiction, Will I develop rolerance and withdrawal effects  af ter only five or six days use of pain meds for actual pain.

Cus if so, I'd rather stick needles in my eyes than go through another vweek of leg kicking and trenmors and being unable to sleep. What do you trhink, Kip? Anyone else have an opinion?

I really need your advice again. You've all been so wonderfyl to me, I won't forget it. By the way, if anyone wants to see my gorgeous 5-month0old oin his glory -- or even me dressed in Affghabn garb whilst a war correspoondent there some years back, just emaiul me and the oicks are on the way.

Here's hoping kip (the angel on my shouldert) can help me here.

[Schlub]

Boy, the above has got to be thr all-time record for mispellings!

Sorry, all.

[cutndye]

I have been using buprenex injectable for 7 years now for chronic pain. It was given me because I was addicted to tylenol 3 in the 80's and they felt the buprenex was the safer way to go. Now that I am no longer in pain I want to get off it and am having a hard time. I went to my Dr. and he is weaning me down slowly using clonodine. I have to say I also feel tired and depressed. I think it's just part of the detox process and will start to diminish with time. I just don't know how much time which is something Ialso need to know. Good luck to you and stay strong.

[TrayCee]

Hi, just an FYI-  this thread is 8 years old, none of these people are here anymore.  You'll get a much better response if you just start a new thread.