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Withdrawal and Depression
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Withdrawal and Depression

I finally got to post!! I have been experiencing severe withdrawal/depression the last few days, so much that I have found myself crying on a few occasions, I have been feeling like there is no way out of this awful life style, and if I get close to being clean, I get scared when I think of leading a sober life..... I can't handle it anymore, I lie to everyone, I hurt everyone and I waste all my godamn money on drugs, what the hell is the point?  If it weren't for people in this forum, its a possibility I might not be here right now.  How do I ease this pain, physically and mentally....... I would appreciate any and all posts. I hope I make it through this, I'm not feeling so well.  GWH  I will be here all day.
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I hear ya honey.  I have been to hell and back, more than once and I'm not quite 30 yet.  I have felt everything you describe and I know it's alot worse than any words can say.  However, the last time I took a pill was in October.  I just got sick of the whole crazy lifestyle circle :work (job you detest), get drugs, feel like a scumbag, do it all again tommorrow).  I got on Buprenex and it was a miracle! I suddenly felt like a normal human again only better because I knew the other side.  I never took drugs again since then, (Really).  It takes away your cravings, depression, fatigue, everything!! I just stopped taking it now, I weened down like the Dr. advised and I'm not sick! I am on Wellbutrin (antidepressant) now though, just started 2 weeks ago. It seems the mental part is only postponed.  But I am doing GREAT!!! I would love to help you in any way get better. I know how to get out of hell now.
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You both have raved about Buprenex (sp) I have no idea how to get this drug........ or what it is? any information would be great, although at this point, I'm hoping I"m gonna be out of the woods before I need that.  Oh, taking those vic's this weekend was weird, I don't know if it was because I was getting sick from withdrawal or what, but it didn't give me the traditional "high" feeling, it just made me exhausted, like I took a valium or something, it was an awful feeling.  I think what happened was that 3 at a time wasn't strong enough to get me "high" so my withdrawal symptoms (fatigue, exhaustion) got worse..........anyway, thanks for everything, you guys are great.  

GWH
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I don't know what state your in but I am in South Florida.  Here as I hope you have there are lots of specialized Pain Clinics.  Alot of people go to some of these to get alot of pain killers some need them, some just want them.  I went there to get off of pain killers so they prescribed me Buprenex.  Look it up on the internet if you can't find a clinic.  If you still have trouble, e-mail me at ***@**** and I will help you anyway I can.  Good luck and God speed.
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I do know a lot of what you're talking about--every time I have tried to quit in the past, it is truly the lethargy and the depression that have killed me.  It really isn't even the sickness, it is that absolute total complete inability to seemingly do one single f-ing thing.  Do you have any options to see a shrink?  A psychiatrist who can prescribe meds?  I am four weeks--minus a weekend where I fell off the wagon--without vicoprofen and I still feel energyless; I've also suffered a lot of anxiety and panic about not having the drugs.  BUt I have an excellent doc who put me on paxil and xanax (in small amounts) and while I'm still moving in something of a fog, I don't feel as depressed.  I even listened to some Van the other night and really was able to succumb to the music--first in a long time.  I'm also seeing a psychologist--who will work with my regular doc on my meds.  But I really KNOW the depseration you are feeling.  What all are you taking at this point?  I'm going to be gone for most of the afternoon, but will get back this evening as soon as I'm able (my husband does not know I'm on this so it can be difficult to post in the evening sometimes).  See?  You aren't the only one with secrets...  hang in there.  You will be okay in the end.  I am feeling better and I didn't think it was possible.
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hi there - remember how you were doing a few weeks ago?  you were feeling good...you will get back there - you can do it, because you did it before.  buprenex REALLY does work.  you will never totally escape the depression...it is still there for me, but it's at the point where it is manageable.  before i went to the clinic that prescribed it, i was on the verge of...i'm not sure what, but it wasn't good.  i thought a lot about death...i don't think i could ever really go thru with it, but i definitely thought a lot about it.

you should find a program in your area that will do an outpatient detox - type it into a search engine and see what you can find, or talk to your doctor about it.  whatever you do, make sure you do it with a dr's supervision.  i don't think anyone can do this alone - at least i've never heard of anyone succeeding at it alone.  you say you will be thru it before you can get buprenex, but will you really?  the depression can last for months and months.  buprenex only attaches to the pain receptors in your brain, which gives the pleasure receptors a chance to heal...plus it isn't filtered thru your liver, so it gives that a chance to heal.  i don't know of the downfalls of this particular med...still waiting to find one.  please please call a doctor - we all need someone...we really do.
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thank you all so much for your comments, i thought I was just venting on this forum, I didn't think anyone actuall payed a lot of attention to what I was saying and or doing.  Anyway, I can't describe to you how much I love you all, i really do, I wish at some point in time we could all meet face to face.  However, I don't think any of you  live near me.  I live outside of Boston Ma. in a nice suburban neighborhood.  Anyway, I AM DEFINITELY INTERESTED IN FINDING OUT ABOUT INFO ON AN OUTPATIENT DETOX, for example, where I could find physicians that would do this, where they are located? (remember, i live outside Boston) how much $$$ and different eperiences people have had.  My day is going by very SSSSSSLLLLLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWLLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYY,i'M HOT, My back is sweaty and my leg is starting to go crazy, this should be fun.......oh well, its my own fault. Good luck to all of you, wish me luck, I feel like I"m dying.
GWH
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i live a very close to boston too - north of boston!!!!  what a small world!  i had to go to southern fl to find buprenex treatment.  it was a bit costly to fly there, two nights in a hotel and the medication and visit - i think when it's all said and done it will be somewhere in the area of $2,000.  BUT, it was well worth it.  i arrived there feeling like total ****, sweating, chills, sick to my stomach, runny nose, etc etc.  flying in that condition is no walk in the park.  my appt was at 9 a.m. the next morning and i was feeling MUCH better by 10 a.m.  if you want more info, please let me know.  i will share all i know with you.  it really is a great way to go without much discomfort.
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gwh:
oh yeah bup! you know in my 35 years of being a junkie i never
seen, let alone tried this stuff. all i know about it is what i
read on this forum and a e-zine called "heroin times." i went the
online pharamacy route to try to get some temegesic wich is the
sublingual version (wich can by the way be injected IV but not
IM. from what i've heard, it sounds like real promising stuff. i
think it would be real hard to get the 24-40 hours opiate free
(longer for methadone) time before you could start. any how i've
yet to recieve it. i think i got taken (not the first time or the
last!). the talk among local junkys at a NA meeting is it is go-
ing to totally replace methadone in the next 7 or 8 years. thats
fine by me 'cause i hate methadone and REALLY HATE methadone
clinics and the sadistic ass-holes who staff them!! (now is any-
one not in the clear about how i feel about that?)

gwh, i fear for you. your less than 30 i think. you probably have
what i would call "virgin veins." to make it short you probably
have another 15-20 years "living the life," out in the streets,
if you have any luck at all.

people on this forum can (and will) talk until they are blue in
the face trying to help you or anyone else. that is a real neat
thing....too bad it won't help you at all until you clean up your
hand, and not "pick up" any oxy's or whatever. this 35 years of blood, bewilderment, frustration, and gallons of tears (my own
and everyone else who tried to care for me) couldn't help kip!

bottom line time:
bup can help you get off!
methadone can help get you off!
going cold turkey can get you off!
Thomas's recipe can help get you off!
hell, even darvon can help get you off!

time clean is the most valuable thing you can get right now. ****
the deepression...you've had a little bit of fun with the oxy's,
or what ever! now it's time to pay up! the cardinal rule of being
a junky is everything that goes up has to come down sooner or
later. now some of us go a week...some of us go a month...hell
i've know people to go years.... but EVERYBODY either comes down
for awhile (at least) or they die (and thats one trip i just aint
ready for) YOU ARE NOT EXEMPT FROM THE CARDINAL RULE!!

my point is i care for you and have been watching you come up for
air, only to flounder and sink again. i went 20 years doing that.
20 years where my friends were getting married, having kids,plan-
ing a future! 20 years and all i have are the tracks in the crook
of my arms and on the back of my hands. oh yeah, i can truly tell ya that i was in the house when the house burnt down! and that just isn't worth anything, believe me!!

gwh, i truly believe you know what ya gotta do. ok, it won't be
a great deal of fun...it's gonna be a class A bummer. you will
do it sooner or later...in a hospital, at your mommy's house,
in jail, maybe even a card board box in some urban alley. for
the sake of the gods, do it in relative safety and comfort. your
own home, your girlfriends house, at least somewhere where you
will have some choice!! somewhere, where your safety and wellfare
come first.

but hey friend, only you can do what must be done!
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
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gwh:
just one more thing. i'm going to love and care about you and
there just isn't one ******* thing you can do about it!
keep the angel on your shoulder
kip
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(((HUGS))) Friend!!!!
Kip is right and i know his wise words only too well because i can take everything he's said and apply it towards myself.
No one is going to wave a magic wand and make all the sadness and terror go away.  There are many ways to get clean, but the biggest most important thing would be the true honest wanting to get clean.
I've seen some bad things happen to my life over the past 5-years, things that i never thought would happen to me.  
We moved to this area about 5 1/2 years ago with only regular bills and a house payment.  We had everything going for us, a new start, new jobs, two beautiful, healthy children, and so much to see and do in our lives.  
All it took was a little pill to do so much destruction to my life, if anyone would have told me it would go this way, i would have looked at them as if they were crazy.
I've seen the pain in myself and the pain through my husband of what these drugs can really do to your soul.  I've lost myself, i've lost my husband, who knows, the house and the kids could be next, there's no telling with the endless destruction drugs can do to one's life!!!
I've seen my husband go through two 28-days programs, leaving me behind to figure out what the hell to do, now with three children, how to support and feed them myself.
I went to the beach back 3-years ago, during my kids' spring break, april 8th 1999, only to return to a husband in shock and a house that was burned and it took 4-months and $100,000 later to repair because he feel asleep while oil was on the stove.
The worst part of this is my soul that is gone, i've lost the most precious thing, myself!!!
You are very young, you have so much ahead of you left undone!  Find a way that will work for you, if you want it bad enough, it will come.  
You will get to the point where you will go crawling and begging to get clean because you just can't take it anymore, then the strength will come to get clean.  I hope you find your way before you've lost too much to ever be able to regain.
Good luck and know that i feel for you because i'm fighting the same battle!
Lv Jenny
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I am sitting here in disbelief, i can't believe the out pouring of love from all of you, this is absolutely amazing, god bless all of you!!

Groovy, thanks for your support, please email me at r_baccari***@****, I would like to know where about you are located, Im just curious, if you don't feel comfortable telling me, then I still would like you to email me and tell me about your experiences.

Jenny, you are awesome, your post hit me hard, you have impacted me so much and you have been posting on my different threads since I first caught onto this forum.  Please stay with me, I know I can do this, I have to.

Good ole skipper, you are the man! you have been here to cheer me up, you have been here to tell me how it is, you have told me the consequences, you have led by example, but most of all, you have just been here.  I don't even know you and yet you treat me like family.  Well, last night I was in the bathroom at 3:30am, basically curled up in the fetal position, my stomach cramped up like you wouldn't believe, my whole body ached and the sweats, they just wouldn't leave, I must have dropped about 15 pounds.  Talk about paying the piper.

God, I can't believe what I have turned into, but I know one thing, I have gained some great friends through this experience. You all are amazing, don't ever let anyone tell you any different, I really do love you all.

GWH
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begging and crawling to get clean is so accurate a description of what i've gone thru.  that is what you become reduced to...the despair i (and sounds like gwh) feel sometimes can be so overwhelming...i find myself blowing up over nothing and then collapsing into a pool of tears...i know i probably seem like a real nut case.  when i talked about the buprenex, i didn't mean to seem like it is a cure-all.  it makes withdrawal less painful physically for me, but it will not make detox a piece of cake.  

anyway...write more - it's good to get it out.  i went to an aa meeting saturday, and it was the most depressing thing ever.  i was told that na would give me **** about taking buprenex - even tho it's prescribed, and that aa would be more lax about it. people just went around the room describing how they got there - everyone's story was terribly sad...everyone keeps telling me i should keep going, but i don't know.
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honestly:
if there was a way i (and a few others) could somehow take your pain and anguish i would. i go to pieces when i see someone, esp-
ically another junky in pain. throughout my years of active ad-
diction i had the unfortunate reputation as someone who couldn't
say no to another junky in pain and sick. most of the time all
i ever accomplished was something like pissing into a puddle of
motor oil! there is hope for you guys....but the door will shut
sooner or later. like i said the god i understand has a way of
sweeping useless people aside...so please get going!

try to put some humor in it...laughter spurs the production of
endorphines and other feel good hormones! there is a way thru!
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
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It's wonderful to see your posts again, my dear!  You must be doing some of the right things just to be here.  I agree that AA and NA can be downright depressing, if not frustrating and even a bit hateful.  It's because we have to be able to deal with real personalities eyeball to eyeball.  I always said that the programs were fantastic if not for all the morons that frequent them!  I still attend meeting occasionally just to **** off certain people.  I love to let them see that I am still making it in spite of them.  

Keep going strong, Jenny.  You are loved!  You all are loved a great deal whether you know it of not.

J.B.
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JB:
last saturday i went back to a meeting (NA) iused to be a frequent attender of. it's in the *bad part of town!!* i've always got on great up there.mind your manners and people usually responded the same. only one person from 8 years ago still there. but the new comers....they were just cut out of the same stuff as 8 years ago. there was a whole bunch of people really frighted by what was going on with drugts and themselves, and their neigh-
borhoods. ya know for some one thats been an addict for over 35
years, i had never gone to an NA meeting where  some one on methadone stood their ground and did not cave in to the bullshit and split. this is uncomon in the cow town i live in. BUT not just one, but two, at the same meeting!!

well anyhow i can't really say for sure if i'll go back, but there was something about all those honest to goodness scared people that really took me back to the days of drive by shootings after meetings. it really kind of stood me up on my toes like maybe i had connected with someone as drawn into drugs as i still am. like i said it really stood me on my toes. too bad thats the only NA in this paart of town! i mean there were some truely des-
perate people there....

i sure hope you get up and around quick. and you know i really
believe there is way thru everthing!!
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
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Skipper, I was really moved by your words to ghw!  But I was wondering, what is wrong, in your opinion, with methadone and the clinics that dispense them?  I've never been to one or taken methadone but I was just wondering
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Hey, I'm up and around pretty good right now.  My legs are still swollen and as big as Virginia hams(talk about ache!), but at least I'm still able to walk.  And walk I did!...about four miles today.  There's nothing as pleasant as Spring in the air and rebirth ala Mother Nature and four dogs to keep up with.

Yeah, I don't know about the methadone trip, myself.  I tried it a long time ago in Europe but never got too enthused about it.  All I can say is that if it helps some people...good deal! I'm not going to look down my nose at anyone who is trying to get well by whatever methods. Think about all the cancer "cures" there are out there that people try out of desperation. A lot of things we do seem downright stupid but so is buying lottery tickets for instance.  Hope, pleasure and peace of mind is all I'm after anymore...gee, it was nice just to get out and enjoy another God given day!

J.B.
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I'm where your at now.  While I don't like to read how bad your doing, I get some comfort in knowing its just not me. I'm slowly working myself off and tappering down but the depression and despare has me think suicidal thoughts several times a day, especially at work when things aren't going well.  I keep looking for the light at the end of the tunnel and know I can get there.  But, dammit, its tough.  I keep thinking about dying and having this misery end.  But, I'm f-----g determined to get thru this but when.. when.  I just want to get my life back.

So, GWH, your not alone.  Hang in there with me (us) and lets keep up the good fight.  The people here and mainly my family and 2 young kids keep me going. I owe it to them.  NOD
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ok: i'll fess up. every methadone clinic i've ever been involved
with was ....full of sadistic clinic workers who love to **** with
your head. the staff treats you as a naughty child, and most impor-
tant, your freedom of movement is restricted. last summer, between
pain clinics in desperatiopn i called the only methadone clinic in
a metro area of somewhere near a milliom. it's owned by the *******
university i work for. it was where the local DEA finally figured
one of the gatheruing places for junkys is the methodone clinics.
i made an appointment for 8:00am the next monday. i took vacation
time. at 5:15 on the monday i'm to go, the phone rings, i'm being
informed my appointment got moved back 2 weeks by DR. N****Y! now
see, i haven't even walked through the ******* doors and some sad-
istic ******* is doing a number on my head.

i will say this -methadone is the closeset thing to sanity in a
very draconian, narcophobic society. i still don't like it. any
friend i ever on had mehadone never got off it, period. I hear of
several who actually have...there isn't many!

hey don't take this as a judgement, one addict can't really judge
another....but i still don't like methadone! it can be too much
of a life change decision you can never back out of! just what i
think, nothing more

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip!
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Hey guys, thanks again for the support, I actually got a 40mg orange wafer of methadone.  I broke it up tonight into 8 pieces, I took 5mg tonight and it took some pain away, I think this is what I will need.  When I bought it from my "guy" he told me that him and another guy were going to an outpatient detox on wed. night, and that I was more then welcome to come.  It was great, they were saying things like "stay positive" .... "we can do this"  etc....   Now I know this forum has all of the positive energy, but when this positive energy comes from your dealer and or the negative influence that lead to drug abuse???? that is incredible.  I can't sleep because of all the thoughts in my head, that and my leg is going psycho.  I would take more methadone but I refuse to take enough to make me feel  something, or to take all the pain away, I need to suffer a little so that I remember what I went through.  This way it will make me think twice the next time around, scratch that.........there won't be a next time.  I"m gonna do this.  Groovy, thank you so much, you have been a life saver for me, as well as skipper, you are an amazing person, please keep posting, Im gonna need all the support I can get this week.  Thanks guys.  

GWH
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Hey!  I just wanted to check in this morning.  It's a new day... how are you today?  What are you feeling?  NOD, I didn't realize you were in the same place; I hope you're getting through too.  HOw are you?
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well, like I had told you, i got the 40mg "orange wafer" of methadone.  I took the 5mg last night and it has carried me through this morning, so I haven't taken anything today.  I think the 40mg may be more then I need, but I will flush the rest of it.  In anycase, I'm doing ok, I'm still in a fog.  I'm hoping that by thursday I will be able to think straight again, you know?

You all are incredible!! Its funny how we have this burning desire to help others in our shoes but we neglect our own bodies........... oh well.  I hope everyone has a great day today.  Please keep posting, it not for yourself, do it for me and everyone else.  Thank you so much!

I superglued the angel to my shoulder kip......
GWH
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It's me, second post. I posted on another thread called Hydro-withdrawal. Anyhow, today is 9 days clean from Norco and T-3's. I feel the worst is over, as everyone, I have my good days and bad. I just read through this particular thread and wanted to commend all of you on your efforts, please please please, remember, it's not a wasted one. If you can get through 20 minutes of that 'horrible feeling', you know the one. You can get through the next and the next. Sunshine, believe it or not, has done wonders for me, my soul mostly. I find I'm enjoying things I truly forgot about for a long time.

I'm looking forward to making some friends here, it helps to know you have people who really know what it feels like.
I would have posted sooner, but you know how it is. ;)
Thanks, all of you.

-Me
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JB, you are always so sweet!  I'm sorry about your toes, but you have a lot of spirit, walking 4 miles with your dogs, wow, you're a trooper! Thank you, as always, for all your love and encouraging words!!!!
Skip, well i emailed you, looks like that dr is going to **** out on me, but i'm determined, i always get my way if i want something bad enough!
GWH, keep being strong, you CAN do this and we will be here.
Don't cave in, keep going and it will get easier, i promise.  Listen to me, i'm still in this mess, but i do know from what i've seen others accomplish!
Groovy, don't give up, you're on the right track.  Do what works for you and don't listen to anyone else.  We all have different ways of accomplishing our goal, this is working for you, stick with it, you just that much further along with each passing day!!!!!
And Kip, i'm a sap for another junkie too, i never was very good at that 'tough love' stuff!  It's hard when you know exactly what 'the pain' really is isn't it.
Good luck!!!!!!!
Lv Jenny
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allright:
this might be a wierd post...i just came from the pain clinic. i
saw my regular doc this time. we discussed bup. he put a real big
nix on. claimed he just recently had a "visit" from the "sunshine
boys!" i guess thats what a lot of MD's are calling DEA people. i
guess the visit was about how bad it could be for hin to perscribe any out patient. when he told them he hadn't ever written an out-patient Rx, the "sunshine boys" said "good and
don't plan on starting!"

so i'm back on oxy. oh yeah, i got me a new little friend -baclo-
fen. i guess if it works out i may be able to reduce my dose of
oxy.

so let me rant
for christ's ******* sake, i almost see the old days...needle,
spoon, cotton, rig....bang your stoned. maybe i just beter do what the doctor says.

today i got a letter from my wife. it was mailed from singapore.
i found that odd, because she is in north dakota. when i opened
it out came 5 little cards of temegesic. wasn't that nice of
irish rose to go singapore and get me sublingual bup!

had such a wierd morning at work, i can't even begin to talk a-
bout it. all i can say is dibert isn't funny, he's right on the
money.

got to recharge..that involves Doug Sahm at 110 Db. talk with ya'
all later!!!
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fill me in here, that is if you don't mind, Irishrose, is your wife, right? are you still together? I"m sorry, I'm just a little confused.  Anyway, I have no idea what that last phrase in your post meant.  I know, I"m an idiot, sorry, just curious.  So, I got my 40mg pill of methadone (its the orange wafer) definitely the real thing. I took a little less then 5mg last night and it has carried me through until now.  I'm gonna do this! I will keep you posted!! I hope all is well with you.  Keep up the good work, talk to you later.

GWH
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gwh:
yes, irish rose is my wife (and a wonderfull wife she is!)!! your not stupid or even slow on the uptake. the bup was packaged in a
greeting card sized envelope, with my wife's name and return ad-
dress of singapore...no ****. i wonder what the flight connections
from fargo, north dakota  to singaore are like?

hope i cleared this up...if i didn't don't worry, i'm the one who
is stupid today!!

keep the angel on your shoulder!! your doing great today it sounds
like.
`kip
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Skipper,

If you don't mind me asking and plase don't misunderstand my motive for asking (pure curiosity) what was the advantage of you injecting opiods over taking them by mouth?  I would assume it gets into your system a lot faster but there must be some other reason that I am not aware of.  I have a phathological fear of needles and I can't imagine why people inject pain meds?  Sorry I don't mean to be nosey, but I couldn't help wondering why as I read your posts.
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alchemist:
i certainly don't mind you asking. shooting up drugs was what kip
used to be mostly about. when drugs are injected IV, you tend to
get the most intense part of the expierence right away. you know,
a good rush, followed by a couple of hours of nods. the point of my post was pretty stupid and unclear. i apologize. i also appre-
ciate you calling me on my ****, weather you ment to or not. sometimes, maybe even a lot of times, i long for the easy bliss of drugs properly abused. this despite the fact that i've long ago worn out my welcome to chemical serenity! isn't that just like a junky, wanting something they just can't have anymore...

i was once informed by a powder brain speed freak, who's street
name was ajax, that "people who don't like needles, end up loving
them!" ajax pretty much had my number... but now my veins are mostly gone, and i usually want no part of that world! but i'm real far from leaving it behind me totally! i'm sorry, i'm probably not making a lot of sense...

keep an angel on your shoulder!
kip
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Naw, you've come too far to want to go back to that world again, trust me!
It's a feeling that will never go away, just go with it, you know what to do!!!
You're far too wonderful of a person to ever want to go back into that world, you know that!
You need your Irishrose back, that's what you need.  When's she coming back, she's such a special lady!!!! :)
I miss her posts to me because she really understands what i'm going through and how i feel, we share a lot of the same personality traits; poor women!!! :)
Take care of yourself!
Lv Jenny
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IF you don't mind my asking...i am just curious (nosy haha) about what's going on in singapore? are you and your wife still together?

for me, divorce was neck and neck with the misery of detox.  actually, my problems with addiction didn't start until AFTER that horrible marriage and AFTER i had met a wonderful, supportive incredible man (my new husband)...figure that one out.  if i'd have known about the state-of-mind opiates would have put me in during my last marriage, i would have been taking them by the fist-full...hahah.
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Today is another day, I took another 5mg of methadone this morning, but I think from here on in I'm going to stay sober, I still have plenty of the methadone left, but it makes me tired........ oh!!! by the way, yours truly was just picked to be in a photo shoot for Adidas!!!  The photographer called me yesterday, talk about something to lift you up during withdrawal............ WEll, today is a new day, I refuse to let myself be taken down by those dumb yellow and green pills.  I hope everyones day goes well!!!

GWH
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are you a model?  that is great news!  i hope they are paying you loads of money!!!

keep trying - you'll get where you want to be...
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Cool!!!  That's great news.  Sounds like a 'focus' to me.
I swear you need a focus to stay straight.  Focus on what you can do with that and enjoy!!!  Drugs will ruin all your chances it always catches up to you.
They want healthy looking guys for that kind of ad, stay strong, and things will get better and better for you!!!!!
Good luck!
Lv Jenny
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Thanks guys, no, I'm not a model, but two years ago when I was in school, I was asked by an agency to take some pictures, at that time it was for Champion clothing, so I did.....ever since then I have done some pictures for Reebok, New Balance, Nike and now I think this will be Adidas, anyway, it definitely is a focus.  I took 3mg of Methadone today, actually it could have been a little closer to 5mg, anyway, Im feeling fine, I don't think I will take anymore today, but we will see. i'm going to be posting a lot, I'm out of it today....... I am so mad at myself for allowing things to get this bad. The whole time I knew what I was doing to myself, its really starting to bother me........ god bless all of you. rb
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groovy:
nosy...nosy? ya know ever time i hear that word i think of Jack
Nicholson in the movie "China Town." oh yeah thats a legitimate
question. i think my wife and i are happily married (she may not)

got the temegesic (sublingual bup) from a offshore, online phar-
macy. i was rather suprised to see them use her name (credit
card) for a return address in singapore!

anyhow, i plan on trying them out the next time i detox. it's
strange, i've never had bup, but i think i have a good picture in my head of what it feels like (anyhow will see)

how goes your detox? ya know the only thing new in the world of
drugs is what happens after ya get off em!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
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where is everyone? I'm struggling today, and nobody seems to be posting, I guess this whole life thing gets in the way of addiction......... I feel a little lost today, hopefully it will get better, I have this unattached feeling, i'm also starting to get this anxiety attack.  Well I hope all is well with everyone.......keep your heads up high and I iwll try to do the same.  

GWH
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i've heard that the sublinguals don't work as well as the injects, but that they (not sure who...fda?) are working on making subs that are even stronger than the injects.  the subs from the overseas pharms are 0.2, and the injects are 0.3 mg. i don't know...maybe they would work for you...different things work for different people.  however, from everything i've heard and read, buprenex has a very high success rate.  after you get off the bup tho, i'm not sure how it goes...that is what i'm afraid of.  my doc suggested always keeping some on hand for when i get a migraine, because the headaches were what started this whole pain med nightmare.  i go thru these bouts of pure panic, when i look toward the future - the future with no drugs...i guess that's why they say "one day at a time" huh?

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I have searched this site and what seems like thousands of others until my eyes hurt and have been unsuccessful in finding anything even close to what I am looking for, this due to the fact that my addiction is not with opiats but with amphedemines, methamphedemines to be exact and this addiction has not made me a thief or turned me into a violent, paranoid person.  I have'nt lost my home or husband, (we are both addicts)our marriage has'nt suffered, we've both remained monogomis and our children are all well adjusted honor roll students who know nothing of their parents problem.  We have never compromised our responsibilities due to drug use, our bills are payed first and we have'nt lost our jobs. (we have both worked for the same company for more than a decade) So what's the problem ?  We understand that this will kill us and we don't want to die.  We have tried sobriety and were successful for up to 11 months (we have been addicts for 16 years) early on in my addiction, before I admitted to myself that I was an addict I remained clean for exactly 26 months, exactly because this the amount of time I was pregnant and nurseing two babies.  The second I stopped nurseing I ran to the bedroom for a line, my husband had it ready. Due to that I belived I was'nt an addict, for awhile.  But the problem we fce when trying to clean up is the total loss of motivation to do anything, getting out of bed feels impossible and doing my daily tasks feels impossible and even though after a few days pass it lightens up a bit it never goes away even after close to a year it was not better and to make it worse I got fat and it will not go away.  My husband gained some wieght but it went away for the most part when we began useing again, mine did not and each time we deside to clean up I get fatter and it dose'nt go away.  I apologize for busting in on this forum but you all seemed to be so, I don't know you simply touched my heart and I was hopeing someone would know something.  If I have offended anybody just tell me to go away and a will.  I can read and I know that I chould not post a question here, I am desperate and hopeful.  Does anyone have any suggestion ?
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As usual, the newcomer (you) IS IN THE SAME BOAT AS THE REST OF US, it may be a different drug, but its all the same in my book. There are many people here who can help you and give you much more advice then i can.  Some of the people here are extremely knowledgeable, more so then any doctor.  However, some may suggest you should seek a doctors help.  Personally I don't know what to tell you, it seems as if you care about everyone around you except yourself.  Both you and your husband need to take a step in supporting your long recovery.  Maybe go to NA, or maybe you should see a doctor.  As cliche as this sounds, you have already taken the first step, you realized the importance of taking care of your children.  Unfortunately i don't have the knowledge on how you should go about this.  Having an addiction for 16 years, thats some serious s$%@t. Take it seriously, but always remember YOU CAN DO THIS, YOU REALLY CAN.

GWH
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Thank you
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hi there - do not ever apologize for posting here and being honest about your feelings...that is exactly what this place is for in the first place. my feeling is this...if you can quit for the sake of your babies for 26 months, then you can do it again. i know what you mean by feeling desperate and hopeful at the same time.  what is your drug of choice?  is it coke?  i'm not sure how to get off that stuff - i know much more about opiates because, i am an opiate addict - currently being prescribed buprenex, which is a drug that you are supposed to taper off of.  although it doesn't make you high, i find myself taking more of it than i should.  i am going to give it to my husband to hold tonight...i feel like such a loser.  all that it does is takes away the feelings of withdrawal, so you feel normal.  i guess an addict's way of thinking is, well if i feel this good i can take even more and feel even better....so stupid of me.

anyway, does your husband also really want to quit?  i think both of you probably need to be on the same page with this.
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My drug of choice is methamphedemine, speed.  Coke was never something I cared much for and generally turned down when offered.  And yes, my husband and I are on the same page so to speak.  Niether of us feel like we can't quit, it's about the quality of life plunging down to having only enough energy to complete the tasks that must be completed and completeing those without emotion.  Do you know what I mean ? It's during this time when everything suffers, I make whatever is easiest for dinner, or I get fast food, I don't clean up the mess, I do the laundry only when I have no choice and it dosen't get put away, school projects are ignored, I go to work with my hair up and no make-up and while I'm there I do only what I must and I struggle to keep my eyes open, then when I get off I fix whatever for dinner and go to bed and my kids although capable have no Mom or Dad to interact with or help them with homework.  I realize some of that sounds a bit petty but it does example what happens. Unlike other "speed" addicts my life and everything that makes my life is jeopardized without it, what's up with that! We had the opportunity a few years back to do an in house rehab (our kids were going on an extended vacation with my parents) so we made appointments and were interviewed by our seperate assigned one on one therapists for evaluation.  They both determined that we didn't need in-house and assigned us as outpatient.  We went with it and we worked it but they (group) all figured that we were lying about everything, speed "freaks" don't ever live "normal" lifes they become thiefs, have physcotic episodes, think their nieghbors are CIA agents, loose their jobs, spouse's, kids and home's..  So they pretty much determined we were in denial, the therapists figured we just had not had these things happen yet and warned us of the impending doom if we didn't remain sober.  They were fabulous people (the therapists) it seemed like they just didn't know what to say because we didn't fit the mold.  My husband brought up a good point once he said "I wonder if we are self medicating," maybe, but what the hell is it we are self medicating ?  Just desperate and hopeful.
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lanas,  hey thanks for asking.  Last 2 days a little better. I know its just the drug giving the depression, most of it at least. I keep telling myself it will get better.  hell, it has to, can't get worse!   Finally decided with all my scary thoughts and depression I need to see someone. Going next week to schrink.  Figure got nothing to lose and my family has everything to gain.  Thanks again.  Godspeed all.   NOD
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aec:
in my 35+ years of addiction, speed played a major role in the ear-
ly stages (first 5-10 years). i think the reasion why i refocused
my drug abuse is that speed is for young people with too much good
health. speed and me after 25 just got stranger and more difficult
every day that i used it! today if i were to choose between several
grams of crystal or a couple good blasts of opiates, the opiates
would win hands down! the reasion for this is my age, i'm 51 (yep
i'm an old fart). speed is a chemical best left alone by us old
folks!

but anyhow what i ment to say was welcome to the forum! there will
always be room *for just one more addict,* so come on in and start
posting to us!!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
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hey! I too have found this site most helpful! What a relief to know there are many out there who do understand. This is my first post. I have been in and out of active addiction for 12 years now. Mostly rx pain pills. I just want to know if there is anyone out there who has gone through starting and stoping a 1,000 x's as I have. I get so angry that I want to forever give it up and run until I never stop! I seem to lose hope every x I relaps. I think it will help knowing I can come to this site now and chat with others who realy understand. Dont really know where to start or what to say? any help?
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hydrojet:
you bet there is, me! welcome to the forum! always room for *just
one more addict,* so come on in and start posting on a regular basis. addiction is a disease of discouragement, disapointment, and
despair! thats why an addict alone is in such a bad spot. togather
we can see our way through! being an addict alone sucks.

hey i like your handle, hydrojet, it's the best one i've seen in a
long time!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
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Thank you for making me welcome, thank you to all of you.  And, I am also an old fart, as is my husband except he is an older fart.  As you said speed is for the young.
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thank you! It feels great to be accepted. That in itself is a real boost. More later, thanks to everyone who is honestly sharing their experiences, I can take something from everyones thoughts and put my pieces together.
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Hi everyone.  I'm the newcomer to the board. The last 3 days I've been reading the entire thing, and realized how wonderful it was to not be in this boat by myself.  I have been hooked on Hydros 10/325 for about 11 months now.  I decided not to cross that 1 year marker, and have found this forum to be my haven from this mess.  I am in withdrawl (withdrawal).  I was taking 25 a day at times others 10. but usually at least 10.  I weaned myself off a little from the hydro, but wasn't too successfull.  Then I switched over to Nurofen Plus for about a week, constantly reducing my intake.  On Monday I only took one.  I have remained clean since.  Today is day 3 free from all opiates, and you all know my story.  I guess I just want to vent.  The last two days weren't bad. Today my nerves are seriously f***king with me. I have tried benadryl and not much luck.  I have no access to benzo's and don't really want any more junk in my system.  Pot, being the exception for now, since I believe It has kept me sane.  I started it all by trying my first Oxy 20 in Mexico, while on vacation (easy to get down there).  That was it for me, I was in love with a new woman named "Opiate".  Then after that I had my wisdom teeth pulled. (I actually looked forward to the procedure, because I knew I would get pain meds). Then I found internet pharms to feed my addiction. Early this past winter, my shoulder was injured in a snowboarding accident.  Once again, more meds (this time perc 10's).  Then when the doc decided I didn't need anymore for the injury, I decided to go back online.  

I really ****** myself up this year.  I've spent so much money on this ****, and have wreaked my car.  I have to stop, or I believe I will die before my parents do.  Nobody has a clue.  My girlfirend doesn't know, neither do my parents.  My close friends confronted me about it, around a month ago, and since I have been trying to quit, and realizing I'm a serious addict.  I know I have to stop, but I couldn't stand to think about withdrawels because of all the times I had previously been in WD.  The lethargy the chills the sweats, the shits, all that wonderful stuff we have turned ourselves into.  But hopefully this time is the one and last.  I have never gone without anything for so long (3days clean) I can't even remeber sobriety.  I have to say, though my symptoms are not that bad this time, I think because of the taper I actually stuck to.

I'm starting to see light at the end of the tunnel, but It's a long road home, I know, and I will make it there, even if it kills me.  I'm sick of feeling either numbnes, or Withdrawals. I forgot all that I have ever known about true happiness because of opiates.  And I only did them for a year.  In that time I went from 2 Vicodin a day. to 20 Norcos.  Tolerance is a ***** huh?.  I'm commited, All I can think about is the fact that I can go a lot lower than this, and I don't want to ever hit "rock Bottom"  Since I don't plan to loose my relationships or house, or car.  I've done this to myself and am determined to clean it up.  Noone should feel like this ever.  But, as I used to tell myself when I used to work out "no pain.... no gain"  I'm scared to death of relapsing, death, jail, and more withdrawals.  Hence I never want to feel this way again.  

This board has taught me one thing.  I'm still savable, but only if I act fast.  I have to get clean and stay that way.  Like I once was.  I never really had a problem with drugs at all.  I take everything else in moderation. But Hydro was a new story.  It was the physical hell that always had me thinking of new ways to get more dope.

I feel better now... posting helps I guess.  I will check in tomorow and let all know how goes it.  I have never been so determined in my life at anything.  I am beating this ****, because I know I have to, party time is over, it's time to go home, and pay my dues......
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Hi aec, I am glad you found this site. I just have to jump in here. Everytime I see someone invovled with meth posting my heart breaks. I'm not trying to say any one drug is worse than an other in terms of the havoc it wreaks on your life but meth is some scary stuff that lives up to all the hype surrounding it. If you are reaching out for help here, that is a good beginning. You must be seeing the effects it has on your life, relationships, etc. My ex, the father of my son, got involved with meth when he was about 38 yrs old. He was a truck driver and a cab driver and initially did it so he could stay up and drive. We finally reached a point of having a somewhat amicable relationship after a bitter breakup. This took years but it finally happened, we were peaceful with each other and tried to focus on what was best for our son. He began calling me with weird questions, since I work in a medical field. At first he would describe the bugs that were crawling out of his skin and told me if he caught one, would I take it to the entomology dept of the university hosptial I worked at to have it identified? I thought, well, hmmm, maybe, but the calls got weirder. One day he proudly told me he cut down a fairly decent sized little grove  of trees on his property so the people hiding in them and watching him would have to go elsewhere. Before he knew it,  aliens came down in a spaceship and killed his dog. He knew it was true cause there was a weird pattern in the grass in his yard where the space ship landed and anyway it had been following him for a week or so. He also told me he recently found out he was the antichrist and he felt really bad about that and that I had better watch out cause I had mated with him and produced the son of the antichrist and they would be coming after us too. Well I got scared then, and avoided him. In January of 1995 I got a phone call that he had been admitted to a psychiatric facility because he was hiding behind a tree nude, it seems there were listening devices in his clothes and house, a January winter in Iowa outdoors was his only safe place. He feared all the imaginary things that were after him. On Jan 4, he shot himself in the head. A better honor to take your own life than to have the CIA, mafia, aliens, and others after him take it I guess.
     He committed this act in the home of his 89 year old grandfather. I know meth damaged him so badly that he felt this was his only option. We were able to get copies of his records from the psych stay at the hospital he had been at a few days before and "amphetamine psychosis" was listed as his diagnosis.
  Well aec, I'm not trying to lay an "afterschool special" horror trip on you but there is no good end to prolonged meth use. You will either end up crazy, dead or incarcerated.
     Skipper, also on this board is my husband. He went to grampa's house and cleaned up the mess he left behind so my son did not have to see this. There are no words for this.
     I wish you all the best in getting free of this drug. I too am an addict, my love was booze and benzos. There is always a way out or through. Please keep posting, my thoughts and prayers will be with you.  IR>
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hi - good (scary!) post...you certainly got the message across loud and clear.  i don't even really know what meth is...except it is kind of like speed right?  i feel so sorry that you and your family had to go thru all this.
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hey whats up?  I'm glad I found this sight!  i have a question for the people on buprenex.  I am trying to come off of Heroin after a relapse of about three months ( I was completley clean for 4 1/2 years) and I've got the mexican version of buprenorphine and was curious about your dosage.  And about this **** about 24 to 48 hours abstinent?  What happens if I don't wait?  I am assuming of course I'll get sick but for how long?  Would the antagonist affect of the drug be similar to taking narcon or naltrexon (rapid  detox) and if so for how long? or how long before the agonist part of the drug kicks in (the pain relieving part,and the part that suppost to keep you from getting sick) to kick in?  What a weird drug right?  I mean I can handle getting sick for a couple hours , even really sick it's the mental aspect that always gets me after a couple of days of no sleep and intense anxiety?  I just want to know if it's going to kill me or not?  I;ve never been able to taper off of anything I mean if I could do that I'd just taper myself off dope! You guys hang in there though it gets much better rapidly
IU've done this a few times and it takes a few months for everything to normalize and probably half that if you take naltrexone which helped me tremendously, you obviousley have to be opiate free to do that.
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Irish Rose, if that story doesn't put everything into perspective, I don't know what does. Both yourself and skipper are two of the most inspirational speakers (writers) I have crossed paths with. I have tried cocaine once, but it wasn't my thing, I hated the jitters the next morning.  In anycase I appreciate all the kind thoughts and advice you have both given to all of us.

Groovy,  Thanks for the email and I agree this forum is great for the both of us.  Although, i have to say, I disagree with you about not being ready to quit.  I didn't tell my girlfriend because I lied to her while I wasn't "that bad" whatever that means, as things got worse I had been lying to her for a while and didn't have the heart to throw this all on her, especially because i was afraid of losing her.  Either way, I have done a 180 degree turn and am heading in the right direction.  I have been free of oxy since last fri. I bought some vicodin and took a few over the weekend and have used a minimal amount of methadone for the last couple of days. I"m feeling alright, we will see what happens during the next week. But I mean what I say I mean......I'M READY TO QUIT, i really want you and everyone else to believe that.  I'm not kidding around, this is what I truely want, and I will do it.  Please keep up the posts and help me in this battle as I will do the same for you and everyone else.  

GWH
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ses - i'm on buprenex right now, and i've found out that i need to hand it over to my husband or else i'm not going to get thru it the right way...i'm taking more of it than i'm supposed to even tho it's not a drug that will get you high...i'm not sure why i'm doing it - i just am, and i need to acknowledge that and then tell my husband:(  

anyhow, yes you must wait to take it or you will do into SEVERE withdrawal...believe me, i'll done it, and it is not worth it. it's 24 hours for short-acting opiates and 48 for longer ones like oxy.  i waited 24 hours last time, but i still didn't feel well when i first started the bup...i think i should have waited longer.  you probably got temgesic - i've tried that too.  i has never worked for me doing it on my own.  this time i'm under a dr.'s supervision, and after i give the stuff to my husband i really have no doubt i can do it. you should go back on the naltrexene (sp) if it works for you.

gwh - from everything i've read and talked with people about, the only way to quit and stay quit is to stop lying to the ones closest to you...the way i look at it is if you truly want to quit and ask for help and the person turns away, then they aren't worth your time anyhow.  i believe that people that love you won't run away if you tell them you're having a problem.  most of the posts on this board about telling a partner are positive - very positive.  at least think about it.
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I will think about it, I have thought about it A LOT in the past, but I was never able to do it.  I know I should and I know she would just try to help, she is incredible, she really is.  How about this, I will make a deal with you, if I F%$# up again and show any sign of a relapse (after tomorrow which is my last day of any methadone) then I will without a doubt tell her, I will tell her everything and anything.  That is how strong I feel about not going back to drugs, I am dead serious about quitting, I refuse to let myself down, I can't.  I understand what you are saying, I really do, and your right! I should have already told her, but Ive gone so far without telling her, I really want to push this behind me, and if this situation proves to be stronger then I think I am, then I will go about it the way I should have from the beginning, with honesty.

GWH
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I just read a post that you wrote below, regarding how you feel like you have so much free time... God did you hit it right on the button, its kind of scary.  I bought my drugs off the street, so I spent a lot of time waiting in Parking lots, stairing at my cell phone, visiting friends to ask for money, brainstorming on how to find money,god, I used to think about where I could find money tomorrow while on my way to a friends place to borrow money for today.......  I was filled with this false feeling of accomplishment and confidence while I was getting high, but now that I look at the hard facts I was a scum bag, I stole, I lied, I was lazy, I just didn't care about my life.  I feel like I'm stepping out of the clouds and into the sunlight, I hope to god I can do this, I have no other choice!!!

GWH
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you don't need to make a "deal" with me...make a deal with yourself, because you are the one who will benefit big time by coming clean with her.  this is all assuming she is a good person and will choose to stand beside you and support you.  if you guys are having other problems, and this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back, then that is another story.  when i told my husband, i was shaking and crying because i was so scared.  he just looked at me, like what did you expect from me and then said he was proud of me for being brutally honest, and he would do anything and everything to help me.  now i have to be honest with him that i am not handling the buprenex taper well on my own, and that i will have to have him be in charge of holding onto it...and i feel like a LOSER because of it.
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thanks for your post irishrose....i rarely ever post but i read these posts daily....im always amazed and astonished at the support everyone here offers....im sure it is a great feeling of comfort for someone who feels they have no one.  i myself am not an addict and really can't even fathom what you all go thru on a daily basis....i have however seen my young sons go thru problems with crystal meth....im soooo glad you told the story you did...because my younger son (17) was smoking meth with my older one (19).....and was completely convinced that he(the older one) was possessed by the devil....scared the living hell out of me....just before that time my oldest son had come and told me he was an addict and needed help....i immediately took him to a detox....luckily he had only been a constant user for maybe 3 months so he didn't really have alot of withdrawl (withdrawal)....but has been clean since..(as far as i can tell and as far as he says)....he really has no reason to lie to me anymore since he has already fessed it all up.....i'm so glad to know that these satanic thoughts are just part of the psychosis from using....and i don't really have to have the added worry that my older son really is possessed by satan....take care all....im in total awe and admiration of all of you.....hang in there and always know that you have eachother....and even those of us that are not users or addicts....thanks for letting me post....peace out....addictsmom
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gwh:
i'm glad to hear your feeling beter. i couldn't help but chuckle
reading about the *deal* making. thats what us junkys are all
about...making deals, scamming, dreaming...

you know groovy made a good point, make the deal with yourself!
after all no matter who or what's beside you, you've got to go to
sleep alone.

how about this... make a commitment to go to seven "12 step meet-
ings in the next 7 days. don't like NA, go to AA. don't like
either....tough ****, do it anyway. see you and me and every
other junky...we know about dope. we know how to buy dope... we
know how to prepare it...we know what it feels like when we can't
score. we know that awful feeling in your gut when w/d kick in
good. ****, i could go on and on, but your a smart young man. my
point is this: for all that you know about dope and being an ad-
dict. you don't know much about addiction. now i have my share
of resentments and gripes about 12 step groups, but given the
opportunity they can teach you about this disease of addiction.
besides that it will pass a little bit of time. now if i was you
i'ld be thinking "kip's really over the edge today!" i dare you
to try seven 12 step meetings in the next seven days. we can
discuss any points of difference after 7 in 7, ok? trust me on
this one, you have nothing to lose.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

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With all my heart I thank all of you for all of this I am feeling comfort in talking (writing) to people about all of this **** which except for my husband I am not a sharer of myself. Although I was raised in the west my people are all southern and it seems to be a southern trait to just not talk about anything that might make one uncomfortable, then maybe it will go away.  Sha !
Anyway, groovy in answer to your questions,I began useing, as did my husband not because it gave me happiness, in the begining it feed both of our needs to work (our first addiction)this was when our oldest was 4 and before our other 2 were born.  That workaholic problem worked itself out amazingly enough. I am not exhausted all the time when I am useing, I was reflecting on meth withdrawls when speaking of exhaustion.  And it is true that the more you do the more you need. (that seems to be true with everything) Our use has increased 10 fold in the 16 years of bullshit.  As I said or maybe I did'nt even now we pay the bills, buy the food and anything else that we need and the rest goes nowhere (if you know what I mean) that is all fine and whatever but we have no savings, no emergency fund (other than credit cards) and when we go on vacation with our children once a year we are strapped for weeks when we return.  The big questions are what happens if something bad happens to one of us or one of our children and what about when we have to retire ?  Tax time is quite reflecting when I see the amount of money made and know where all the spendable income went.  
It all boils down to this I know and clearly see the path I need to take I just can't find the shoes I need to wear.  Silly analagy I know but it works.
Confused, thank you for acknowledging that I am not in denial, and I tatally know this must end which is why I am here see I can't just shut down my life and that is what seems to be the only way there is to go there that is what brought me here to begin with, I've looked and looked until my eyes hurt for an answer to my question, that being IS THERE ANY RESERCH BEING DONE ANYWHERE OR IS THERE SOME KIND OF PHAMICOLOGICAL PROGRAM FOR METH ADDICTS ?  I have'nt found an answer yet but in the meantime this and all of you are helping my mind and I will not give up.
Irish rose, I can't begin to tell you how sorry I am for all of the pain you've suffered because of meth, I can't imagine how it must of hurt to see that happen to someone you once loved and had a child with.  Skipper sounds like good man and loving partner, it's good that he was there for you during that terrible time.  I've seen this type of thing happen to many good people, meth changes everthing about who a person is, the paranoia is frightining. Although, "speed" has been in society for many years methamphedemine is relatively new and it's  history is frightening, it was created by our government during Vietnam, for the purpose of keeping our boys awake and alurt and when one does not sleep one must face the results of sleep depravation which turns kind loving people into violent alurt people a little more sleep depravation results into violent paranoid people who no longer have the ability to see reality, phantom bugs are commun which is why meth users have bad skin, they pick and pick because they are convinced there's something there and they have to get it out.  After one stay's awake for days sometimes weeks at a time the ability to get any real sleep is no longer possible and their bodies and minds never get the opportunity to renew itself, which is what we do when we sleep so of course it spirals and they must find a way out and there is no way out.  Although, I am grateful that we have not experienced any of this first hand I have to ask why?  The answer can only be that we sleep, I've never been able to stay awake more than one night at a time, my husband has done two nights but we always recognized the fact that it took more to stay up more and it was'nt hard to see that the quality of the "high" was massavely diminished as time stacked up so we went to bed and in the morning we drink coffee laced with stupidity.  Another reason for sleeping was the fact that our oldest child was getting older and if we did'nt sleep she would wonder why, we did'nt want her to know.  She is now in college and still does not know.  My children would be so terribly hurt and heart broken if they found out. That is a fact that hurts us the most.  This bullshit has to end.  It has to.  I gotta go.
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I've been to maybe 700 AA or NA meetings but I'm not bragging about the number.  When leaving a detox facility, they usually recommend 30 meetings in thirty days.  Skip suggests seven.  The old saying goes, "do something for seven days and it becomes a habit...do it for thirty days and it is an addiction".  If you attend the meetings long enough you will learn so much about not only addiction, but yourself as well.  We may be experts at scoring and getting high but are a real tyros about getting and staying clean for any period of time.  Keep an open mind to help and always remember that despite your best efforts in life, you are here on the addiction website looking for answers.  I know for a fact that we all don't make it even with years of sobriety under our belts.  That's just life so live!

J.B.
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I don't know who said it about telling ones family the truth but you hit the nail on the head   Honesty is any adictions worst enemy it destroys its hold over you.  the adictive cycle lives in our head when you get honest and tell someone whats really going on it at least temporarily breaks that cycle of bullshit in your head; the rationalization and justification that we keep feeding ourselves to continue using.  when you tell someone else you usually see how obseard it is.  Usually I isolate and lie about using out of fear.  But usually when I get  Honest I find people ,especially family to be supportive.  The funny part about it is they almost always know any how, what pisses them off the most is that you keep lying about it.
    Screw it I'm going to wean myself down as much as possible and start the Temgesic.  I only have a few days worth and would have to drive to mexico to get more so no worries there.  I'm going to get really sick anyhow personally I'd rather be really sick for a day and get a little relief than be straight kicking for a week.  Withrawl always hurts badly, honestly I've never made it through anywhere but in jail not even in a detox unit.  Ironically it usualy isn't as bad in jail because you know there is no chance you are going to get high so you think about it less.  For me the crawl out of your skin anxiety has always been the worst part.
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I'm tappering off once again.  Went from 150mg hydro all the way down to just 20mg now.  Tappering has advantages but it also stinks - a death by a thousand cuts.  I'm about out so no choice this time.  Lethargy not that bad, but the depression sucks. Being addicted to hydro and then quitting feels like a best friend just died.  But its no friend as we all know.  Glad your also seeking help, this my first try at anything like this.  Can only help.  take Care.   NOD
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Today is my 11th day of freedom from those type of hydros you speak of. I know 'exactly' how you feel. Here is what has helped me, keep in mind... everyone is different when it comes to withdrawal. Imodium (immodium) for the runs, multi-vitamins-preferrably one with a super juice tablet, water-water-water, Advil or Tylenol for aches, and I found that the Benadryl only helped me THIS week... but don't always reply on it, try to at least rest on your own most of the time even if you don't sleep deeply. It'll be worth it down the road.

Also, chamomile tea has helped me at night and at times when I feel like I just want to come out of my skin. Go to an herbal store and get some with some kava kava. I was going to try the L-tyrosine I'd heard so much about, but I feel better this week, so we shall see. And sunlight! Being outside has helped tremendously! Your soul more than anything needs to heal too. And if you can tell someone, even one person close to you about your addiction, you'll have someone whom you can call and say, "Hey, today I am xxx clean!" And they'll lift you up. ;)

You can do it, I feel so much, I would say better, but there's another word.... different. No drug seeking feelings, no counting pills, no wondering where it's all going to come from anymore! I have more time now than I ever did. Hang onto your light at the end of that tunnel, Dive, it gets brighter, I swear!

-Me-  20 minutes.... by 20 minutes....
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aec - i wondered about something.  i know speed revs you up - i've taken it, and it's not for me.  so how come you feel so exhausted all the time...does it just stop working for you after a long time?  opiates used to make me feel GREAT, and then after a couple years of taking more and more, they just made me feel like ****.  is it kind of the same with speed?

as far as self-medication goes - isn't that what we are all doing?  we're taking something that (originally) made us feel better than we did naturally.  some people take aspirin to get rid of a headache.  i know for me, i took opiates to make me feel more energetic and happier...the bottom line is they made me feel happy.  so ok, it wasn't "true" happiness, but it was better than feeling depressed (at the time) - now i just want that feeling naturally...the drugs don't work anymore...i can't just keep taking stronger and stronger meds to feel better.  i think i've taken everything there is - except heroine, and i'm not willing to go there.
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sorry hydrojet - i just meant to add a "welcome" to that last post.  you asked where to start....you already have started just by posting you first message.  you will find people here to be very accepting - more than anywhere else in my opinion.  a lot of times i'll have a question, and if i scroll all the way down, i will find an answer in some of the older threads...there is a wealth of info here!!!
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I hear you--I'm going to a shrink today (if I can make it walking to my car and then from my car to her office).  The depression is the hardest part for me as well.  And the total lack of energy.  I mean NONE.  Are you totally clean or taking something to detox?
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sometimes people dont understand what addiction can do to your lives, just because you didnt lose your job, children and you home dosent mean that you are in denial, but on the lines dont wait until you lose all those things before you take recovery seriously, about 6 years ago i had a big problem with coke and it took my youngest child to be born addicted to coke to realize that i had a problem, then after a couple of years i just traded addictions to pain pills instead, this time it didnt take something horrible to make me realize that i also had a problem with the pills too.
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Thanks,

I guess I just needed to tell someone.  This hiding pills thing, lying, stealing thing, is getting too old for me.  Today is day 4 and I'm feeling much better.  The diahrea has stopped, no more chills, no more sweats, and I actually slept 6 good hours last night.  This morning I'm still a little shaky, but I guess I will be for a while.  Not that bad, I can definitley do this.  

I can see why people say withdrawl (withdrawal) is worst at 72 hours after your last dose.  That was 4:30 pm for me yesterday.  My cravings were coming every 10 seconds for about 3 hours, then I relaxed.  

Having a clear head is the best part, it's starting to clear for me today.  I am thinking more sharply than I have in almost a year.  That's just one of the little things that are keeping me going.  I still have 2 refills at 2 pharms for a total of 150 hydros.  I am calling them today and requesting the refills be cancelled.  I don't trust myself, I have to completley seperate myself from the dope.

I booked a scuba diving vacation for me and my girlfriend today.  Made sure that this was to a caribean island that does not sell oxy over the counter, like in Cozumel Mexico (Which is where I started taking pills).  I haven't been exited to go scuba diving in a while, I was too stoned.  

The tunnel still looks long, but the light is getting brighter.  I can and willlllll do this.  I want my life back.

I hope everyone is having a good day, mine are certainly looking better every day.  Everone, thank you, this site pushed me to quit like nothing has since,  You have no idea how much strength I have taken from here.
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Hey skipper, yea, I have to admit I was laughing when I proposed the "deal". Kind of funny though. Anyway, I appreciate your concern, and it is well needed, trust me. However, I don't feel comfortable going to NA AA, I have gone to a few in the past with a friend of mine, and I felt very uncomfortable. its not my thing, if things get worse, (i don't know how they could) then I will go sometime in the future, but i really don't want to.  i may be dumb, but i know I can do this on my own, I have the support of this forum, my brother and another close friend of mine........

Today, I feel great, I used my last 3mg piece of methadone yesterday afternoon and now i'm sober. Its funny how weather plays a role in your mental state.  I feel great today, I really do, the sun is out, the birds are chirping and I'm stuck behind a desk,haha, no but seriously, i have never felt this way, well atleast not in a long time. Well, i have my "photo shoot" today, that should be a lot of fun, plus I am going out to dinner with my girlfriend, who i depend on more then anyone.  Well, I hope all is well with everyone. I also hope that the 2 of you (kip/J.B) understand that NA and or AA are not my thing...for now anyway.  I know your right in the advice you give, but I"m not there, does that make sense?

GWH
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i'm in agreement with you about na/aa, in that it sucks to go and you feel that it isn't "your thing".  BUT, i have forced myself to go, and i plan to keep going to a lot more.  i decided this yesterday. i am going to give it a chance - that was suggested to me by an addict who's been going for 15 years.  he doesn't preach all that to me, he just answers my questions.  he told me that you have to find the one for you.  maybe you have to go to 20 different meetings, but eventually you will find one that you feel comfortable with.  he said that he was drinking for the first 6 months he started aa, and then he said finally one day it all just clicked for him - it was the right place, the right time and he has been going ever since - sober. i hope that in 15 years, i can be as positive, helpful and as sober as he is.
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I have no doubt you will be in better standing then he is, you are already a positive minded person, your out here trying to help people like me, you confront yourself every day be telling yourself that you know your abusing.  I know you will be ok, keep up the hard work, your doing great. I will be here for you.

GWH
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thanks a lot.  i just called my husband and told him about using too much buprenex.  so, he will come home from work tonight and take it all away from me.  i feel this weird let down feeling, like he didn't get how hard that was for me to be honest about it.  i guess he can't possibly understand it all without being me.  oh well, time to get back on track.  today i just feel like someone else who said it feels "like my best friend just died"
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Hello again everyone. I'll been away for awhile and now I need some important information. I've relapsed again, 3rd time. I am very scared of facing this all again, as i know the horrors all to well. Could anyone please tell me if there is a detox or doctor that uses buprenx or bupronophine for detox in the central Pennsylvania area? I've heard it works wonders but have never been able to find it. thanks so much for your help  Love.  Shane
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shane:
welcome back! i don't know if you remeber me...but i rememer you.
sorry, i can't help you much with a bup detox in your area. just
wanted to let you know it's good to hear your still alive and try-
ing! there is a way thru this. keep posting and maybe we can find
it!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
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Shane- I haven't heard of anything in central PA. There is a place in Ft Lauderdale FLA- cprflorida.com, not too close I know. And also in the Baltimore area apparently most major hospitals have a one week Bup detox, cash puts you at the top of their waiting list, insurance waits longer.  I have not experienced this firsthand myself, but know some other folks pursuing this. Hope this helps a bit, sorry not more info. Bet alot of other folks will see your post and can provide you with more help than I can. Take care. IR
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if you go to the site irishrose mentioned, i believe there is another office mentioned that is in pa.  i'm not sure, but you can call the number at the site and inquire...good luck!

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KIP, Thanks so much. Of course I remember you, how could I forget!!! You helped me and so maney others. It is so comforting to know that even though your not posting you are still among friends. I will try to get clean again and this time I pray I can come back with a story of Hope and inspiration!!! Thank you All.  Love always   Shane
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KIP, Thanks so much. Of course I remember you, how could I forget!!! You helped me and so maney others. It is so comforting to know that even though your not posting you are still among friends. I will try to get clean again and this time I pray I can come back with a story of Hope and inspiration!!! Thank you All.  Love always   Shane
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Hello Boys and Girls, Im doing incredible and I hope my enthusiam spreads to all of you.  I told you I got that methadone, well, I have 20mg left and I gave it to a friend in need, he was in his second day without oxy's and he was hurting and I realized that I was "ok" with out it.  So here I am today, sunday morning and I feel normal, what I mean is, my leg isn't shaking and I'm not in pain. I can do this, I know I can.  I hope everyone is ok, please post whenever you get a chance.

GWH
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good going!!!  i know you can stick with it, and your enthusiasm is definitely welcome. i wish i had just a tiny bit of it...i am on my rations now of buprenex, and it sucks.  i really screwed myself by abusing it...now i'm on less than i'm supposed to be, and believe me it is felt.  will i ever stop messing up?  i feel like such a child going to my husband ever 4 hours and asking for my 1/2 cc - which does NOTHING.  anyway, enough about me - i'm so glad to hear you are doing so well...just remember that the depression part can hit pretty hard later on, and you really struggled with it before...keep remembering to post - no matter how you are doing. it is inspiring to me to hear about someone here who's doing well and is in positive spirits...good luck!!

anyone heard from schlub?
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shane:
couple of things:

we all help each other! this whole forum over the net for drug ad-
dicts is really an amazing phenomenon! 10 years ago this sort of
thing we have here couldn't even be imagined, except by a small
number of people (of which i wasn't one). today we are enabled to
reach out to people we can't see, don't know, and across distances
that can span the whole planet. as much as i have helped you or
anyone, so have i been helped. now there's a reasion to keep post-
ing, we need you as much as you need us! hope you got some useable
stuff on bup detox. remember, there is a way through this!

keep an angel on your shoulder!
kip
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GWH, stay on the path your on my friend, and in time this too shall pass!  That's been my 'motto' for the past couple months, the pain/withdrawls/cravings won't last forever.  Opiate abuse is so hardcore, so intense and robs you of any kind of self-respect and identity- it's just a hopeless and extremely dangerous way of life.  If you can (I know this will sound difficult) but try and get some exercise, just go for long walks-anything, you just want to sweat out all the residule drugs that may still be locked in your system.  Keep positive thoughts, if scoring creeps into your mind- push them out IMMEDIATELY (man, I've had to deal with that alot, especially on paydays but it's just not worth it anymore)!  I've now been clean from methadone/heroin addiction since 2/24 and it's a great thing, it hasn't been easy- I will not lie, but nothing in this life that's worth it is easy.  To cop out and go score is the easy way out and only prolongs the enivitable, remember that. Some pain right now or pain next week.  Try and project to yourself where you want to be 6 months down the road. Still struggling or clean and sober?!  You'll do just fine as long as you keep yourself in check.

Also, to anybody out there still struggling and having to score out in the streets or whatever, BE VERY CAREFUL!  Not just the drugs that can quite possibly kill you but ever since 9/11 there's been that D.E.A. propaganda saying that anyone that buys illegal drugs are 'terrorist sympathizers' or something to that affect.  A friend of mine in Boston picked up his first drug charge a couple weeks ago, scored 2 bags while this area was under surveillance, got popped, guns drawn, thrown on the ground by some hot-headed detective, kicked and beaten by said detective then the other hot-headed cops saw 'carte blanche' and joined on in on the beating!  My God!  To use a tragedy like WTC as a sick-minded marketing tool for the war against drugs is pathetic and morally in bad taste.  Yes, I'm an ex-junkie but never a terrorist for Christ sakes, I didn't even know heroin came form the Middle East.  We have a sickness pure and simple, no one sets out to be this way, **** happens, right?!  But to push this propaganda on a losing war on drugs is disgusting, and then physically beating up people and getting away with it because your wearing a badge is even worse.  These people need help not hostility, and are not TERRORISTS!!  Just everybody, be careful, get clean, stay well and just be glad your alive and kicking...
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gwh:
so you're finally having a good day? i'm really happy to see things
turn around for you! keep posting!

groovy:
don't be too hard on yourself for getting ahead. this is something all of us have been and/or will be. it's the very nature of the disease for this to happen. the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. that doesn't mean an addict will follow a straight line! there is a way through. please keep posting to us!

both of keep an angel on your shoulder!
kip
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Good morning!, well guys I have to say, I'm dragging ass this morning, I can't function all that well. I'm not in pain, my leg is calm, im not craving a fix. Im just feeling sort of fatigued, how long does it take for this tiresome feeling to go away, I feel like I could sleep all day. Once I get up, I"m ok, but I'm so tired......... Other then that things are good. My dealer went to that outpatient detox, he said he is doing pretty well, I think hes on about 7 different medications though,,,,,,, is that right?? is this what they do in detox?? Anyway, I"m doing well, a little tired but I'm still here, alive and sober.

GWH
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did he go to dr. kishore (sp)?  i went to him once, and it truly sucked.  he gave me like 12 prescriptions to fill, and they were all to treat symptoms of withdrawal - no benzos tho.  plus, you have to go in to see him every other day...and pay.  it is expensive.  i asked if it was him, because he is one of the only outpatient detox places in our area.

i'm glad you are still doing ok - the fatigue lasts awhile...for me anyhow.  that's the hard part - that and the depression.  no one seems to be able to predict how long all that lasts...i guess because it is different for every person. hang in there...
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Groovy I"m sure "hanging in there" literally, I feel like I"m hanging by a thread just blowing in the wind.  I"m not going through any withdrawal symptoms such as the aching, or restlessness etc.....  I"m just "unfocused" you know?? but I am ready to do this.  I mean, if my dealer is gonna do this then **** it, I have one leg up on him and I'm gonna keep gaining on him, hes the ******* that brought me down, OH WAIT A MINUTE, I brought myself down, right......, leave it up to the junkie to pass on the blame.  I swear to you guys that non of this is my fault, every time I blew a line there was a gun up to my head.................. ok, anyway, I'm doing well, but I'm in limbo, kind of that, "ive lost my way" type feeling.  I hope you all are doing well.  Oh, Groovy, this doctor is in Brighton, is that the same location??let me know.  Talk to you later.  Skip, I would like to hear from you.

GWH
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yes, that dr. is in brighton...there isn't a lot of choices in our area.  he really sucks tho - i know from personal experience.  he's out for a buck, and the detox "cocktails" as he calls them cost an arm and a leg even with insurance.  don't tell your friend all this tho...if it's working for him, he should continue with any method that does.  if i were YOU tho, i wouldn't go to him.
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GWH--I really know the feeling you have.  I'd really like some help here too, from anyone.  I have been almost 5 weeks clean (with one weekend set back a couple of weeks ago).  I am way past the ugly flu-like symptoms, but this fatigue is KILLING me.  I feel like such a whiner, but I don't know how much longer I can take this.  I don't want to back through this either and to go back to the drugs means that I would have to, but it is really killing me.  I am taking vitamins, an anti-depressant and xanax.  The xanax is for the anxiety symptoms--I was shaking so badly I couldn't do anything (type, write, pour water into a glass), my pulse rate was way up, my breathing was rapid--and I've had a lot of anxiety that has been work-related.  The xanax helps with the shakiness, pulse, and breathing, but I also think it is making me feel even more like I'm moving through quicksand and I'm not making it.  (I can't wait to get off it, but I can't function at all without it right now either).  Anyway, PLEASE someone help me and tell me, give me some idea, ANY idea what I am looking at here.  I feel like I have come so far but I can still hardly move.  I know it seems small compared to what many are going through, but I really don't want to relapse; I'm determined not to so if I could just have some hope that this will end and that it shouldn't be much longer and do you really feel better in the end than you did on the vics?
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Just remember this, WE ARE ALL HERE, NOT TO SPEAK ABOUT THE GREAT TIMES WHEN HIGH, BUT ABOUT HOW HORRIBLE IT IS BEING ADDICTED, HOW WE NEED TO GET CLEAN, HOW WE CAN'T GO ON ANY LONGER, THIS SHOULD SAY SOMETHING TO YOU!!! Everyone including my dealer are trying to get clean, nobody wants to be on any opiate, this has to change, its the inevitable!!! You can do this, no relapse is worth having, you don't want to go back to being a junk, no way in hell, you can push this through, The fatigue is your body slowing down because it thinks that if it does this long enough we will give in and feed it some drugs. We need to reverse this and get our bodies back to not wanting the drugs......Sounds a little childish, but its the truth and this is DOABLE, WE CAN DO THIS, JUST KEEP UP THE HARD WORK, AND KEEP POSTING

GWH
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Hi everyone,

Day 7 for me with no opiates in my system.  I'm starting to come back to "normal", or how I felt before the pills, or how I felt on the pills. Anyway you look at it, I'm back... almost.  No more physical symptoms, only mental craving

Day 6 was not fun, I had the runs again, but it could have been what I ate.  I actually got out of the house for a while this weekend and went downtown with my girlfriend.  She has been so wonderful.  If I didn't have her, I wouldn't have much to look forward to in sobriety. I was dragging ass just like GWH said, but I made it through the day.  

I found a bunch of Nurofen pain pills this weekend (each wih 12.8mg codeine) I used these for tapering.  I was soooo tempted to take a few just to releive the fatigue, but I DID NOT.  I FLUSHED EM ALL.  That took more balls than I thought I had.  So I made it past temptation #1, I wonder how many hundreds of these I will face?

I got to tell you all, it feels great not to think where my next stash is coming from.  I like who I am wihtout the dope, It's just gonna take some time to get back to that state.  I know, I can do this, and so can everyone else.  We all just need to keep working on staying clean.  

I will update how my situation goes.  Everyone have a great day... (I know it seems unrealistic now, but I'm trying.)
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Thanks GWH for the quick response.  It's been 3 years since I was last totally clean, but I did not go through this long of total lethargy--5 weeks????   I mean COME ON.  When will this end?  You sound like you are doing pretty well, yet you just came off more recently than me.  How?
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Dive, keep it up man, use your girlfriend as a reason to stay sober, thats what I'm doing, I love her to death, more then myself, which is a mistake, however, I will do anything to make her happy. Keep it up!! your doing awesome. I"m still struggling, but I will make it.

Lanas, I sound like I'm doing well, but thats just me being happy because I'm past the physical withdrawal state, I still have the depression/fatigue ahead of me, I haven't even hit that yet. I know, 5 wks, its ridiculous, I guess your next step is to forget about the quick fix, don't even have it as an option in your mind, you need to move on and move quick, just think about everything and anything else  besides using. If you keep positive, you will make it through quicker, keep posting, I will be here.

GWH
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Dive--I am SOOOO thrilled you are feeling so good.  But this is what I mean... how is everyone doing so well?  I could not have gone anywhere the past several days if my life depended on it.  My daughter was on spring break from her preschool and everywhere I took her had to be where she could play and I could do nothing but sit.  Even my posture... I am finding it diffult to stand up straight.  I mean what in the hell is going on with me?  I just don't get this and after 5 weeks?  Everyone keeps saying how much better they feel; I feel less better all the way around.  I'm not going back to the pills, at least that is what I keep telling myself.  I don't even crave them--I just crave the energy.  I'm sorry; I'll quit whining.  I just hear how great everyone feels and I don't understand.
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Thanks--I appreciate the answer.  It makes me feel like perhaps I'm not as alone as I am thinking.  I admire what you've accomplished because you went from a lot more than I did.  But this lack of energy is the biggest downer I have experienced ever.  Anyway, you've made me sit up a little straighter  :)   I keep getting up every morning thinking "this will be the one, this is the day I'll have more energy" and then BOOM!  I'm wishing I could crawl around my house and I look at the stairs to go up and think...  well, you can just imagine... thanks again.  You really have made me feel better.
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Hey dude. Thanks for the reply.

I have read your posts, as a matter of fact I even read some from last December. You and I are not that different, I'm even your age, well almost.  I can't say how much some of your posts helped me.  I was in denial of my addiction until I saw your posts.  They might as well have been mine.  The oxy, the hydro, the secrecy, the lying, and the girlfriend who doesn't know.  

I take strength from you, it takes a lot to quit this ****.  I know, but I am scared to death of doing it all over again.  So should you be.  So, lets keep on keepin on, and stay the course.  It will get better.  There will be a day when you can see your girlfriend with bright eyes, look at her (not to mention wanting to sleep with her) and think to yourself, GOD damn, what I would have wasted if I kept taking these drugs.

I had a moment like that this weekend, while standing in an art museum.  We both were looking at a painting and looked at her.  I almost started crying.  This girl is gonna be my wife someday, and I will not go down the aisle stoned with her.  Yeah I crave the drugs, but what I crave more is a life...

Hang in there dude, and stay far away from the dope.  Sunlight has helped me.  Or maybe it is because it is Spring, but I feel renewed again, almost euphoric, and excited to know everyday will be a little brighter, the trees a little greener, and light at the end of my tunnel closer..

Not today, but maybe tomorow...
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thanks for the reply too.  I hope you feel better soon, I know you will.. just keep on for another month, maybe two, you have made it so far..

Please don't go back to the pills, you are 5 weeks clean.  That's longer than I can imagine right now.  I only feel good because I keep telling myself Tomorow will be better than today.  

There isn't much advice I can give you, though, this is the first time in 10 months that I have gone this long without an opiate in my system.  I can only imagine what I will be like in your time frame.  But keep holding on to whatever you have to hold on to.  It's gonna get better, just stay clean ONE more day....
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Been there done that, and I'm gonna have to go through it again, and you know what, IT SUCKS!! but ge have to do it, you should not feel like your alone, your not even close to being alone. i wake up everyday and feel like i'm in this cloud, i feel like i have a fishbowl of smoke over my head. It sucks, but i push through because as much as i would like to, getting a fix just isn't an option.  keep it up and post as much as u can, i know i will be here and so won't everyone else.

GWH
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That post means a lot, I'm so amazed that i have reached someone, I agree, I have hit a couple of moments when I have looked at my girlfriend in complete happiness in knowing I will someday marry her. She knows I've "dabbled" but she doesn't know to what extent.  Anyway, I will definitely keep posting, I need to!! Today I feel ok, but I will feel better at lunch, I'm going out with my girlfriend, when I'm with her, I feel like a normal person again, you know?  So how old are you exactly, younger or older then me? I"m 22. I live outside of Boston, and the whether is great here.  The whether/season play a huge part in a positive mentality.  Winter is very much a depressing season, it made everything so much worse.  Anyway, I hope all is well, and post often!!

GWH
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Yeah, I guess you're right.  Although I love winter.  Both my gilfriend, and I are Huge snowboarders.  We love snow, but hate the cold.  

I am 24 years old.  I live outside of Wash DC. and My girl too knows I've dabbled, but not to that extent.  She would freak out, since she is a pharmacy student, and her father was hooked on pain pills for almost 3 years.  He quit successfully on his own, and She really has no idea what addiction is, because to her it looked easy to walk away from the pills.  She has experimented with everying just like I have, but Nothing out there has ever grabbed her like these pills grabbed me.

I hope one day all of this will be a bad memory.  Thats all I want.

And yes, you have definitley reached someone.  Remeber that while you stay sober.  I wouldn't be posting the results of my detox here if it wasn't for yours..
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do you feel any energy coming back?  and does anyone know what the "general" amount of time it takes to start getting it back.  i know everyone is different, but is there some sort of ballpark time frame?  it's so depressing to hear that lanas is 5 weeks clean, and she's still feeling like ****.
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thanks again man, I really appreciate it, really, I do. I also hope this will be a bad memory.  You have some weird thoughts when detoxing. For instance, i found out my dealer was quitting, went to detox, so of course my first reaction was, Is he still going to sell? should I grab something before he gets rid of everything? and what am I going to do, I can't be sober the rest of my life!! Its awful, but I don't let that get to me, I push those thoughts down deep in my gut and then throw them out! I can't think that way, I need to look forward, I'm starting new.  The last time I relapsed I was driving in my car I took an 80mg oxy that day, I had no money, I owed people money and I was so worried that I had to hang out with my girlfriend, See, I have awful restless leg syndrome when going through withdrawal, so I feared having to spend time with my girlfriend because I couldn't handle it. So during this moment of anxiety, I promised myself that I wouldn't forget how I felt at that time and how I never want to feel that way again, thats what is keeping me sober.  Did that make sense?? I hope I can further help you.  WE CAN DO THIS, trust me we can.  good luck, keep posting

GWH
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I think the xanax may be contributing to your fatigue.  I have taken in twice and both times it has made me extremely tired.  I really think that after five weeks you should not be so exhausted.  I really feel for you because you are doing the right thing by no longer taken the vicoprofen but you are not reaping the benefits.  Are you drinking a lot of water?  Maybe this is not possible but how about forcing yourself to go outside and take a long walk.  
By the way, I also have a 4 year old!  I have been taking one (yes only one)vicoden a night for about 3 years.  I know that might sound silly to some but that one pill has played a very important part of my life for several years now.  I have stopped before for a month or so but always go back to taking one about 7:00 pm each night.  I only took 1/2 last night and will take 1/2 tonight and then hopefully none ever again.
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I feel some, but I can tell it's gonna take time.  I find myself forcing myself to get off the couch or get out of bed.  Doing laundry last night was almost too much to handle physically,  and I used to have so much energy I wouldn't even bat an eye on laundry as a "Mission Impossible" which is what it felt like.  

My mental state is better, but energy is definitley down.  I am trying to eat good and take vitamins and such, but eating is not something I want to do right now.  I lost two holes in my belt over the last two weeks of being off the Hydros.  While yes, I needed to loose weight, I would have prefered it not be due to detox.

I can see this dragging out, but maybe that's what we all need, to cross that two month (or whatever) marker and get the energy back to finally quit taking pills. I don't know, that's new territory for me.  I haven't been this clean for this long in almost a year.  Hang in there, we will make it past this dreadful feeling.  It will take time though, I know, I was high for almost a year, Coming down will take more than a week.  Someone once told me that there was a rule of thumb for every year you used, it will take a month to get out of your system and feel like yourself again.  By this rule, I only have a couple more weeks, but even 2-3 weeks is an eternity right now.
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I know that feeling dude,  I too am trying to focus on how awful it felt to know I had to use to avoid withdrawals in front of her.  When we would be together for a weekend or more, I planned ahead, knowing I needed x amount of pills just to "make it".  I hate myself for that more than anything, and will not use again knowing that.  So yea, like I said, not that different...

Sorry for the many posts, just today I need to talk to someone who is going through what I am.  I relate to you more than anyone else here, and I thank you for taking the time to shoot the ****.  I will keep posting later, going to lunch now,  not to eat, but to just sit outside and take in the sun.  

Take care GWH, and everyone....
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According to your rule of thumb, I should shoot myself, hahahah, just kidding, not that bad right now, but that means it will take me 3 to 4 months to feel like myself, we will see. keep up the positive energy.

GWH
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enjoy the sun, it should be relaxing, yea, I hate myself to, I find myself mad more then anything lately, but when I'm with her, I do nothing but treat her like a princess, I wait on her hand and foot, she gets everything from me and she deserves it.  Dive, do you work? if so in what field?  I'm going to lunch in a few as well, I will look forward to hearing from you when I get back.  

GWH
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Yeah, I work.  I just graduated college last year, with a degree in finance.  (who'd have thought I would **** my money away on dope?, Huh?)  I work as an accountant right now.  

I like my job, and want to keep it.  I noticed myself slipping at work, due to too much use.  My boss suspected something.  He flat out asked me if I was on drugs, when I did some stupid mistakes from being stoned.  My work ethic and productivity have actually gone up in the last few days at work, even though I barely have the energy to get out of my chair.  

Sun was good today, I didn't need any pills either,  Things are looking good.  

As far as that rule of thumb thing is concerned, don't sweat it, It is different for everyone i hear. There is no rule of thumb with drugs, if there was, quitting would be easy...

Focus on that beautiful girl of yours.  You need her now, more than you need us.  But, don't lose sight of yourself either.  You need to treat yourself good these days, you're finally gonna do it.  It will be a bad memory soon....
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I hear ya, I went to a business school, all my friends are either working as financial analysts, accountants, auditors, etc... they all work in either boston or Manhattan(wall street etc.) I chose the other route.....SALES, I'm doing quite well with it, it is the reason why I had money to spend, but now I get pissed off when I think about how hard Ive been working and how easy it is to spend on drugs. I refuse to lose any of my money on drugs, unless its a prescribed med for the flu or sinus infection, but no more narcotics from the street or the pharmacist. The sun definitely felt great, I just ate lunch with my girlfriend and it made me feel so much better.

GWH
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You guys still out there, I'm sure skipper is just taking a break, but I know your listening, groovy? is everything ok? please let me know how your day is going, I'm losing strength every minute.  I watched "stepmom" the other night, I think that is the movie, anyway, its with Julia Roberts and I forget the other actress,  ahhhhh!! thats annoying, anyway, she is dying of cancer......after that, I realized I have nothing to complain about, I did this to myself, and I need to suck it up.  It could be a lot worse, i could be terminally ill and not have a choice. Ive been selfish and I'm going to turn this around.

GROOVY, have you watched the News, about the child molestation within the church, I don't know if you have but "Greg Ford" has been all over the news, he has been a good friend of my brother and me for a long time, his mom is in the chior with mine etc... and its awful, I know your local which is why i'm asking, plus Its one of those things that really depresses me..........
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-gwh,groovy,dive,lanas-
  You guys are scaring the **** out of me. Is anyone on the reciepe? I know my time will come to stop this madness and
reading what you are going through is making it tough for me to
wind down. Then again the pain, what do I do about the pain? Right now I'am committed for life unless something changes. If
something does change then I'll hopefully know the consequences
and with everyones help I'll be able to do it. Incidently I'am
from East of Boston near Springfield. Smaller world.
Tom
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you aren't sounding as good as you did this weekend - remember this is the hard part...this is the hardest part, in my opinion, to make it thru.  please hang on - this will pass eventually and then you will be free!

i'm very aware of what's been going on in the catholic church, but not specifically what you are talking about.  it all makes me ill.  why don't they let those freakin priests get married?  less and less of those evil men would try to get into the profession if they knew it wasn't a safe-haven...ok...i better just stop before i offend someone - sorry if i have already, but this subject never ceases to disgust me.

gwh - i hope you are ok.  i've started to rely on this board, and when the posting goes slowly i start to feel bad...us addicts want a response NOW...haha
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Yes, I've wondered about the xanax, and have gone as long as 15 hours without it and still feel this badly, but my shaking and breathing gets so badly, I can't fundction without it.  I am also on paxil which is supposed to help with these other symptoms but won't "kick in" for another week.  I'm terribly excited to be off the xanax.  I think it is very interesting that you only take 1 (now 1/2) a vic a day.  And at night at that.  Does it help you sleep?  My intake was always for more energy.  THank you for the comments.  I keep thinking I should not be feeling this badly after 5 weeks too.  But I am really avoiding the drug route.  I'm giving this another 3 weeks and then I'll reevaluate where I am and what else I can do (but not go back...).  Going back is just a dead end in the long run.  I really do know that.  Isn't having a 4 year old a blast?
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Hinkster, you mean west of Boston........ haha, I'm not to far away from you, but I would like to keep that somewhat private, either way, DON'T FREAK OUT, You need to take meds, you have to manage your pain, I don't have the pain, I take oxy's strictly for the "high".  You are a whole different story, take care of yourself, you need to live pain, free, when and if you need to cut the meds, cross that bridge when it comes, for now, enjoy life, but stick to the amount that is prescribed, ok? No worrys, don't sweat the small stuff, keep your head up and stay focused.

Groovy, Yea, I'm a little drained is all, i'm getting a little bit of anxiety but nothing severe, it goes in spurts, its weird, its like my body says "we haven't had drugs in a while" and it goes into the mentality like I have been looking for drugs but can't score, you know that feeling, right? god its awful, I have trained my body to mentally "jones" for a while during the day, but I can beat it, its little things that bring me around, like my girlfriend, or the sun, or this FORUM!! I will be here, I'm not going anywhere except forward!!! keep up the posts. Talk to you soon.

GWH
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having a 4 year old is a blast and so is having a 5 year old...she is wonderful and a large part of why i need to keep this commitment to myself.

are you feeling any better yet - any energy kick in today?  i want to hear as soon as you are feeling more normal...it will give me hope.  i have gone thru the same feelings as you, but i've never made it to 5 weeks...

have you tried taking amino acids?  opiate addicts really need to replenish themselves with them - that might help a little.
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gwh,
  As soon as I hit the button I'am thinking you meant West of
Boston dummy. Thanks for the info.
Hink
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I adore my four year old.  Although he just had a fit in the grocery store because I would buy him a candy bar!!  The reason I haven't posted before today is because I thought people would laugh me out because I only take one vic per day but the truth is I really need that one pill!  It helps me unwind at the end of a very full day. It gives me lots of energy when I would otherwise be spent.  I get a lot done at night and then I fall fast asleep around midnight.  I usually get a 30 pill prescription which lasts me a month and then I get another.  I orginally got them for a knee injury but now I just take it because I like it.  I have stopped before but mentally I always give in.  I don't suffer any physical withdrawal symptons (just a little restless sleep the first night or so) but it is mentally hard to give up.  Sorry I am rambling but I have never spoke of this to anyone before (not even my husband)!  I really hope you remain clean because without even realizing it you have been an inspiration to me.  Five weeks is quite an achievment.  You should go out and buy yourself something special!  Hang in there but if your energy doesn't come back maybe talk to your doctor about other reasons like thyroid problems.
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Hey there,

What GWH said is true.  You should not have to live in pain.  I too took the pills to feel high, originally I took the pills for a wisdom tooth procedure, then for a snowboarding injury, later just to get high.  I healed quickley from the injuries, teeth were fine in 2 days or so, The shoulder took 2-3 weeks.  The addiction has been for over 10 months.  After I found the energy the pills provide, and the euphoria, I was hooked.  

If you are in legitimate pain.  Addiction isn't your problem, it's physical dependance, and tolerance.  You may or may not be addicted with these two included, but they are in fact seperate issues.  Most people in chronic pain ARE NOT addicts, but ARE physically dependandt on opiates.  The difference comes when the pain goes awaym, if ever.  People who are not addicted can withdraw from opiates (yes, it does suck I know) and later never pick up the pills, addicts always want more pills, no matter how many times they've been through withdrawal.  Yes, it is a fine line, but don't fool yourself if you really need them.  Talk to your doc, they can and will help.  Not mine, cause I forged a few scripts, but that's my story.

Hang in there, and for god's sake don't put yourself in pain if you don't need to be.  This is why we make the drugs we are addicted to, becase they do help severe pain, like nothing else can.  When your pain subsides, if ever, then come back here and get help, when you're in hell.  Untill then keep taking the meds.  If I was in real pain, I would.  But I'm not, I'm a junky, who ****** up his life for no other reason, than to get high....

Later....
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i am into day 4  compleatly cold turkey.
the tryrosine seem's to buffering out any depression,and i
able to still work witch is something that has never happened ,while kicking
i was taking 15 perc's a day for a year or 2   8 a day the the 2 year's previous.
i have never been able  to taper. In my insane program  10 IS TO MANY AND A THOUSAND NEVER ENOUGH. I have never takin 1 of anything.
I guess it'S still all or nothing. well so far so good.
Been clean since friday it monday 5pm   I have tried to kick plenty in the last 3 year's with no sucsess at all.i have 4 day's but i keep telling myself when i get two weeks i will be good to go.
Sleeping has been rough about 3 or 4 hours so you could say i feel pretty wired. I have been eating banna's for rls or leg cramps just in case . leg's are just getting bye.
my plan is to work so hard i tire myself out. Speaking of work
I was thinking i couuld substitute a perc addiction right into
a work addiction.
i have read everything on the post today, thank you to everyone
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Dive
Thanks that sure did help. Like you said when I'am ready I'll
come back. i don't want to take up everyones time. If i can help
someone I will if not you won't hear from me anymore. I enjoyed
my time here and feel I met some wonderful people even though I
did'nt actually MEET anyone. See ya'll sometime soon.
Tom
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yes, my daughter is one of the very large reasons I am trying to really kick this.  I also realize that when I'm on the vics, I'm a really great mom, but when I'm coming off them, I'm really irritable.  BUt I know that before I took them I was generally a very happy person, so I know it's in there.  Actually, what am I saying?  I've seen that part of me LOTS since I've gotten off.  Really, the ONLY complaint I have (and it is a big one) is this total lack of energy.  I am taking paxil, so I did not think I should also take the L-Tyrosine (b/c paxil is an SSRI).  I am taking vitamins (prenatal--they are the best in my opinion!).  At night, I take vioxx, and a very very very small does of both topamax and zanaflex as preventive for migraines (which is what in part got me started in the first place).  I do think the xanax could be contributing, but like I said, even when I don't take it for long periods, my energy level does not increase.  I will say this, the past two mornings, when I have gotten up, for the first hour I have had more energy and been more like myself, but I QUICKLY dive and then it is hell.  Is this a turning point?  How does it work?  Anyway I am rambling.  I cannot tell you how much it has helped to have responses today.  I was really losing it this morning.  So frustrated.  I feel more hope and I thank you ALL for that.
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I meant to add that I do not think you are carzy for getting on here when you are taking so little.  I wasn't taking very mch compared to many on here either.  But if you need it and you want off, it matters.  So believe me when I tell you everyone here is with you and supportive.  I've got to run and will be gone all day tomorrow.  BUt I'll be back Wed.  Take good care and thanks again for all of the support.
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Hi.  Don't want to sound gloomy but I've heard (don't know if this is completely true, but it's from a friend of mine who's been way worse than I ever was and he's going on his 3rd year completely clean) that the amount of years you used, it will take that many months to get back to 'normal' or whatever 'normal' is (I don't think there's such thing).  I used for 6-7 years, that's 6-7 months for me, I guess.

I've been clean, (completely w/o a 'lost weekend' or anything remotely close) now for 7 weeks, feel good but I'm lethargic quite a bit.  Just really un-motivated at times, I have to just push myself just to get up and go to work, then at work I feel like an idiot sometimes, no one knows what I've been going through so I have to hold these false fronts but I feel like I'm on the verge, a precipice. I've just been turning into a mental space case.  Go somewhere to get something done,running errands, paying bills etc; and get side-tracked and actually forget what I'm supposed to be doing in the first place.  I'm articulate (I'm a writer)but when having conversations with people I can't seem to find the words I'm trying to get out, I get frustrated, punch at the air and start laughing.  Kind of creepy.  Can't be old age, I'm only 26! Honestly I don't know what the hell my problem is but I do feel like a completely different person latley.  My girlfriend left me, went back to Denver- just couldn't deal with me anymore and after 6 years with me I can't say I really blame her.  I'm not going to go out and use, that's no longer an option- it's what has got me in this bullshit to begin with but- God- when does it start falling into place?  Maybe I'm just a bi-polar/shizophrenic!!!  Anybody out there going through the same weird stuff?  Sure like to know I'm not the only one....
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i'd really like to start a new thread someday...what's with that?

has anyone experienced becoming very antisocial while taking opiates?  since the drugs, i have withdrawn more and more, and would rather be at home than anywhere else.  we were in the bahamas, and i felt like making small talk with people was the biggest chore in the world.  i have blown off plans with friends more times than i can remember, and even errands which force me to go out seem to be overwhelming.  what is with that?  plus, especially since trying to quit the drugs, i look like ****!  my skin isn't great, and it always was before...i look pale and just worn out. that probably is contributing to my hermit-like behavior.

i hope i come around soon.  i miss my life and doing the things that really used to bring me enjoyment.
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isn't it annoying, not being able to post!! Anyway, I was actually the oposite, I loved going out when I was all screwed up, I lived for it. HOwever, it wasn't the same because I also looked like ****!! I went out because I knew I would talk it up the whole night, but I always came home and looked in the mirror, what an awful surprise that was, that is one of the same reasons I am quitting.  I didn't buy one razor or a new stick of deodorant while I was using, thank god my brother uses a spray deodorant so I used his every day.  I would shave maybe once or twice a week!! it was awful. So I do relate to you, there were plenty of times where I just wanted to stay in by myself, and plenty of nights when I just went to bed around 9pm.........

Today is a good day, yesterday was the 1st day where I had no drugs in my system, I was dreading today, i thought I would wake up in hell, but I feel good, very good, so hopefully this is the start to a new beginning. I hope I don't start weakening through the day. So please post, I was looking forward to our conversations all last night, it gives me something to look forward to.  Hope all is well

GWH
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Hey everyone,

Day #8, I can't believe it.  This is a milestone, a week clean.  I have to admit, I'm feeling a little better every day.  My restless legs are now down to a managable level.  I can live with this for a while.  I have stopped going to the bathroom every 10 minutes, my stomach is feeling good, I ate dinner last night, and then slept for 6 hours at night.  NOT BAD...  

But, and theres always a BUT, I have been craving the dope ever since.  I even dreamt last night that I used.  I was mad at myself this morning, until I realized it was only a dream.  I can't get these pills out of my head.  My body feels better, but my mind keeps saying "go get more"

Don't worry, I'm fighting it, but it sucks.  My energy is still down, but slowly I'm doing more stuff around the house, like moving some furniture last night, and cleaning.  

Let me know how everyone is doing, I'll be here most of the day..

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thats some funny ****, haha, i had the same dream, I had a handful of 80's, some 40's and a few perks all cupped in one hand........I didn't get to far along in this dream, so I didn't get to use while I was asleep, but I used to get those all the time and it really annoyed me.  Your not alone, I always tell myself, ok, in a few weeks you can have your fix, "it will be ok" yea right, I think I'm purposely telling myself to atleast get to the 3 wk mark then cross that bridge when I get there........ keep posting.

GWH
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I think the key to staying clean is not to give yourself any 3 week mark, no fix after week 4 or such.  I have put myself into the mentality that the only thing I have to look forward to is a life free of those "thoughts", "feelings", cravings, or whatever you want to call them.  The momnent I go a day without thinking about Hydro I will consider myself crossing a bridge, but I will not use, because then everything I have worked for these last two weeks and later, will be wasted away in a little pill.  Then I will have to start over again, and would probably shoot myself knowing that I did what I did, especially if I was as pissed at myself as this morning.  

Anyway, it's definitley getting better.  I am starting to come back to life.  Now the struggle begins...
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day 5  
I have to start living in the moment. I keep spacing out to next week. Or back to 1983 when i got clean the last time.
i was 24  then and cleaned up off a meth and qualude 10 year run.
i got clean in AA but had to leave after 6months because i really never drank. so off to NA i went. I had a brother with 2 years clean in NA  back in 84 ,he was a good example. HE was my younger brother.
This last run started after he ' my brother settled a workman's commp case got his 70,000 he he died 2 weeks later a zanax /herion mix he was 36  ,then my sponser died of hep c
then my mother in law ,who we took care of till the bitter end.
then the same with my father inlaw last may.
to tell the truth the percs were sheilding me from all this death the last4 years. Not to mention rotator cuff operation
inbetween.
well i have lost 30 pounds this past year from 225 to 185 it help's the knee pain.  i wanted to use last night .i think i am going to give my wife my cell phone today, i don't think i could say no.
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Hippy, I give you so much credit, death is a natural thing, but it is the hardest thing to watch close ones pass on. I lost a best friend on sept. 11th and I still think of him day and night, I can't imagine what you have gone through, but that is why staying clean will help. You will be able to go on with your life and try to become more productive. I wish you the best of luck, keep posting!!

Dive, Yea, I agree about the 3 week mark, 3 weeks is nothing, hell 3 months is nothing, but I'm positive I can do this. My girlfriend keeps me positive and sober, she means too much to go back to using.  Besides, I have money in my pocket, I'm in the gym 6 days a week and I'm feeling good about myself, why the hell would I start using again??? NO WAY!! I'm gonna do it this time. I don't feel like working today..........

GWH
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what about now that you are off everything?  do you still feel like going out all the time?  

i am getting an early refill on the bup next week, so i am feeling less anxious about running out. my husband has the stuff under lock and key, so i have no choice but to take it the right way.

where is schlub and skipper?  seems like some people have disappeared...i hope they come back soon - both of them always had thoughtful and inspiring things to say.


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Keep up the Gym thing, I'm sure it will help you recover much sooner than that 3-4month "rule of thumb BS".  I too want to get back to working out, but I will conquer this first, then start other things.  Nothing is more important to me right now than staying clean and going straight.  Once I can say I haven't used in X amount of months, and my energy comes back (I know it will!!!) I too will start to work out again.  

For now though, I can't focus too much on anything else except that damn light at the end of this tunnel.  I have to reach it before my life can begin again.

Stay positive, and stop making those "Deals" with yourself... It's only going to lead to dissapointment. Both for you and for me.  I would hate to see you relapese after say 3 months clean.  Don't **** it all away again.  your girlfriend deserves a guy who isn't smacked all the time.
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It goes up and down, sometimes I want to go out and other times I just want to lock myself in my room, but now that I'm done with the physical withdrawal, I feel more inclined to go out. but I have mood swings, there are times where I want to have nothing to do with anyone but myself, I just want to lay down and sleep.

Skipper has said before that he reads just doesn't post at times, I'm sure he is over looking all these posts........ if you are, I hope all is well kip.  That angel you speak about is hanging on for dear life.......

So, how are you feeling groovy?? any better today, when do you get the bup? and thats good that its under lock and key, now you don't have a choice, thats they way it needs to be with us, you know??
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i know it needs to be supervised, but i beat myself up over the fact that i can't control this myself...it makes me worried about the future and what else i won't be able to control.  i'll get more toward the end of next week.

i feel ok - kind of tired and unmotivated, but that seems to be my general state of mind these days.  i'm not taking enough bup to feel good, but i'm taking enough not to go into major withdrawal...as i've said in the recent past - i really screwed myself bad on this one.

i wish more people posted more regularly...as you said, i too look forward to reading people's posts...they really do save me from sinking into depression sometimes.
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I'm here for you, if you need to talk, you also have my email, I hope you feel better today, I know your strong enough to do this. If I can do it you can, and trust me I never thought I could even get this far. My brother used to tell me that this would be cake. I am a fitness freak, I have dieted for 20 wks at a time eating protein shakes, bars, chicken and rice, and NOTHING ELSE, so he told me if I had the will power to do that then this would be nothing, BOY WAS HE WRONG!!! I would take a diet from hell any day. This is the most difficult thing I have ever gone through, but I"m DOING IT AND SO CAN YOU!! just stay positive, you will see the other side, and as kip would say KEEP POSTING AND KEEP AN ANGEL ON YOUR SHOULDER.

gwh
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where is that angel again?  i could use one right now, and i don't think it's on my shoulder right now.  i have to force myself to get up and go...sitting at the computer all day won't help me, and it is gorgeous out today...my daughter just got home from kindergarten, and i am determined to spend the day outside at the park or something...so, i won't be posting for a few hours...stay on track today gwh...you are doing great!!!
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thanks groovy, have a great time with your daughter, give her the attention for the day, that way you will think less of your situation.  I wish you luck, have fun!!! talk to you soon.

GWH
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Ok, this might sound weird, but does anyone else struggle with gagging when taking any pill. I am taking supplements right now for lighting, plus some multi vitamins and I gag every time I take something. Its definitely related to taking vicodin, I gag just thinking about it, its awful, but does anyone else have this issue, if so, what do you do......... its awful.

GWH
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It's funny that you mentioned the GAGGING.. I thought it was only me! haha! but, I did find a solution. I take a drink- (Water) -about a half of a mouthful, don't swallow, tilt my head back like I'm going to gargle, then drop the pills in, and THEN swallow. Pretty silly, huh? but it works!
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haha, too funny, you know I'm gonna try that, i can't stop laughing, oh god, the things we do.  Anyway, thank you for the advice..........what does the name stand for, or is it your last name, you don't have to answer i'm just curious.
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I'm not having a good day here.  I'm tired, yet still a little jumpy, how weird... I'm at work, but can't seem to get a thing done, with this lethargy.  AND I CAN"T STOP THINKING ABOUT POPPING PILLS.  

Sorry to vent, But I'm just hanging on by a thread today.  Yesterday was actually better.  I think it's because the sun is not out today..  Or maybe because I just paid some bills, and realized how much money I was pissing away on Hydro.  I could have a new car by now.  Instead I wreak the one I have because I was nodding off.  I feel stupid for letting it get this far.  Hopefully that was my rock bottom, because I can't feel any worse about myself right now.  Only the thought of staying clean is keeping me from going insane, and even that is getting to me.

AAAAAAARRRRRGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.................
...........
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THE PAST IS THE PAST, ITS NO LONGER.................build back up, put your blinders on and stay focused at the road ahead, you can do this, just think about what you said........if you turn back now those pills will be more then ready to welcome you at the gates of hell.
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You're right, I just read some of my "positive" posts from yesterday.  

I'm in now way going back to the pills.  I know that to be fact, it's just that ******* monkey won't shut up!!!!.

I guess I'm just stressed.  I need to lay in bed, and chill out.  Only 1 more hour of work and I get to go home.  

I'm trying hard here, but today everything is telling me to score and use again.  I even found 3 Hydros in my desk at work.  It was almot ceremonial the way I flushed em down the toilet.  I am not wasting my life away to a shitty little pill, but my body and mind want it so bad.  I hate fighting this feeling off, but I'm strong and will continue to do so untill it goes away.

Thanks GWH for that boost.  I needed that today.
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Hi everyone.

I'm doing much better today.  It is officially day # 9 totally clean for me.  My withdrawals are OVER!!!!, Yey!!.  I slept like a baby last night for the first time and got a whole 7 hours rest.  I woke up feeling great.  

One thing I've noticed is that I'm not getting the depression everyone talks about.  At least not yet anyway. I felt a little down during the withdrawals, but that's over by now. I am actually feeling good inside.  Yes I still have cravings, but am mentally blocking them out.  Oh, and yes, I'm still a little lethargic, but feel like it's slowly lifting from me.

If you told me 3 months ago that I would have come this far, I would never have believed you.  I'm really proud of my accomplishment and will not **** it away for a high.

The sun is back out, and the weather is warm, I'm glad to be living.  Things are looking good.
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i loved reading your post - it's so hopeful.  be thankful you aren't experiencing the depression part...it's the worst part for me.  it happens because the drugs wear down the receptors in your brain...the ones that make you feel pleasure.  it takes time to build them back up - some say it can take up to a year!! my doc told me that amino acids really, really help the process, so if you do start feeling depressed maybe you could pick some up.

i'm very happy for you...keep up the great work!!
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Thanks Groovy,

I'm glad you liked it.  What a difference a day makes, Huh?.  If you looked at my posts from yesterday, you wouldn't think I'm the same person. LOL

I have plenty to look forward to in sobriety, new things are popping up everyday.  My life it seems, can only get better from here, I will have more money, a better sex life, look healthier, be healthier, and will once agian have natural life energy.  These things are still a little out of my reach, but I'm seeing them now for the first time since last June, when I got really addicted.  

My good friends and I got together this weekend, and some asked if I was still messed up.  I was proud to tell them my story.  Although I didn't get as much support as I do here, they were happy for me, and didn't feel uncomfortable around the pill addict that I had become. I hope one day they too can forget the past year, just like I will try to do, but never completley, becasue I need a reason to stay sober, and the thought of having to relapse, live in a fog, and Detox again, is just insane to me now.  I can't see myself in that world anymore.  I AM recovering... Day by Day, and Doing great.  

Thanks everyone for your support and encouragement.  I would have never put down the pill bottle if it wasn't for this forum.
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hi - we all have "reasons" for quitting, and what i'm told is that you have to do it for "yourself" - you have to love youself, blah, blah blah.  i have to say, i don't feel like i love myself much these days, but i am still determined to stay clean.

you said you need a reason to stay clean...what's your reason?  i have many, i want to be a good mother and wife, i want to stop wasting money, i want to look and feel better, i want to experience "real" life...there's more, but i won't bore you.
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I have plenty of reasons.

And all of them have to do with "ME"

1. My Health, and overall wellbeing (not so good on drugs)
2. My Beutiful Girlfriend (Pursuing a pharmacuetical carreer, Being wiht a junky would not be good for her)
3. My Parents (I feel I have let them down)
4. My House, and everything in it (which I have worked so hard to be able to afford)
5. My Money (self explanitory)
6. My Job (which I like)
7. My Friends (all close friends are NOT addicts)
8. My Sense of Sanity....

and so on.  Hey.... that was theraputic for me.  I never made that kind of list before.  In my head, yes, but not on paper.

Thanks
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it is theraputic...i've made the list in my head, but when you put it on paper, it's makes it more real or something...

bet you couldn't write down any reasons to BE an addict tho...
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Unfortunatley there is 1.  TO BE HIGH.  But, even getting high goes away with tolerance, so I guess there is none.

Thanks Groovy,  I like your style.

I'm having a great day here,  Very productive at work, and Hopefully the evening will be good too.  

Take care everyone.  I will check in tomorow.
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Day 10,

I believe now the hard part has passed for me.  The reason I kept this addiction going was mostly because I couldn't stand withdrawals.  Now that they are over, I can't believe how much I thought I needed them to feel "Good".  I'm 10 days clean, 16 days without Hydro, and am definitley going back to my old self. My lethargy is beggining to lift.  For example, I did a little remodeling of my downstairs bathroom yesterday.  I actually WANTED to do something, that was a first.  

I am not taking any supplements or Tyrosine.  I felt they weren't doing **** for me, so I decided this time to keep things simple and suffer for a while.  Probably a good move, since I feel good so fast after stopping a 1 year addiction.  I know many of you have depression and lethargy long after stopping, but hang in there, it does get better.  I guess the longer you use the more drawn out the lethargy or depression is. It can't be the amount, because I was taking between 10-30 10mg Hydros a day toward the end.  All I can say is it is different for everyone, but it DOES pass. Sometimes quicker, sometimes longer, but it does pass.  

Also my appetite is back, with a vengance, I lost it for 2 weeks. I am noticing myself craving chocolate, and sweets like never before.  Is this something anyone else experience after detoxing???

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i know what you mean about sweets, and YES it is very common to crave them...not sure why.  i have some lollipops (sp?) that i use when i get those fierce cravings....they have no fat and are pretty low in calories.  if i gave in to the chocolate thing, i'd be a house. i've been good and have stayed away from my daughter's easter basket!

it's go good to hear when someone gets to the light at the end of the tunnel and actually starts to feel good.  it inspires me a lot...especially because i've never made it that far. have a good day!!

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Thanks Groovy,

I haven't reached the light yet, but I'm getting close....

I still think about the pills, and I still have cravings.  I need to work past that to make it.  I need to bee 100% free from the drugs to feel like I made it out of the tunnel.

Have a wonderful day everyone, I will be checking in every now and then.
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Day 18 of freedom!

I'm so very proud of you, dive. I knew you could do it. The light at the end of that tunnel gets brighter and brighter. Before I typed in that 'day 18' up there, I had to count it on the calendar. When I started my road to recovery, I just wanted to put as many days between me and those hydros as possible, and just get it over with. But counting.... wow. Like you mentioned, if someone would have told me a year ago, or even longer, that I'd be clean now, I would have laughed in their face.

And yes, I've personally noticed different cravings and chocolate was one of them, oh about 8 or 9 days ago. Now I'm craving anything tomato-ee! LOL! Our bodies are a delicate balance of chemicals, horomones and such. I truly believe even one pill of the likes we used to take upsets that balance. We just don't notice it until we get free from the cycle. Even my food tastes better! And... my hypglycemia has totally gone! That's low-blood-sugar, for people who don't know. And I've also lost all cravings for my Dr. Pepper, and let me tell you... I was completely addicted to that soda. ;) Hehehe. SO it's got to be a chemical thing.

And the gagging, I think it was gwh that mentioned it? I have that too, weird huh? I guess when we popped pills for the high it was like second nature. Now it's a taboo. Interesting.

You guys keep on keeping on. We rock, because we have conquered
this ourselves. We....is me, when turned around. ;)

I appreciate you all.

-Me
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Hey finally, I was waiting to hear from you.  You were a good inspiration to me when I first posted.  I can't tell you how proud I am of you, me, and everyone else that has kicked successfully.

I shouldn't brag too much about how good I feel, I know it can depress some people who are still suffering, but I can't help but tell the world how wonderful I feel.  I can think again, I can **** again, I remember what happened yesterday, I remember what happened a week ago(something I couldn't do while using), I am starting to notice little things like birds singing in the morning, I can take a leak again, I'm not nodding off all the time (I once slept through an entire movie, in a theater.) Oh the things I miss about being messed up. LOL

Thanks, I know what you mean when you chose the name "finallyliving" because that's how I feel right now, like I'm finally living again.
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i don't know if we needed to know that you can "****" again...haha, but good for you.  it isn't depressing to hear that you are doing so well - it is inspirational.
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I think it's quite alright to say how good we feel. Only because it shows what being clean is like! I know what you mean about nodding off and sleeping when high. I can't tell you how much time I lost from 'napping'. I am really amazed when I look back on it. Sorry I didn't post in a while, you were in my thoughts tho, I promise. Everyone is. Sometimes, I just don't get 'online', because I am trying to spend my time more productively. Because for me, popping those pills, opening a can of soda and sitting 'ONLINE' was a cycle for me. I just wanted to break that cycle a lil` bit. ;)

OH and I don't think I've ever mentioned it, but I am female.
And being that I am ruled by my emotions, being female and all, sometimes I just didn't wanna post because I felt whiney. ;)

Thought that might give you a laugh. ;)

-Me
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Sorry to have been so graphic, but It's the truth, hell I could hardly "get it up" when I was on pills. Now it has a mind of it's own... ;-)

Finally, it's true, you have to break the cycles.  I find now, that I only get cravings when stuff reminds me of using,  Like just about everything I SEE!!!!.  But I guess that will pass. I had a habit of popping a handful right at the end of the workday, and by the time I got home, I would start to feel the high.  Then I would sit in front of the tube for hours.  This was a daily thing, so everyday this week I notice that I'm not stoned when I come home from work.

I like who I have become in the last week or two.  I think I will stay this way for a while.
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Hello Everyone,

Just wanted to reconnect and let folks know where I'm at.

First, some background. After using Buprenex to detox, and then stopping the Bup and getting 5 days totally clean under my belt, I took Naltrexone (probably too son) and had a bad reaction. Basically convulsions.

So my addiction doctor put me back on the Buprenex to quiet the symptoms, and now I'm tapering down again. I'm now at 1/4 the dose of Buprenex that I was 10 days ago (3/4 amp twice daily) and I expect within aweek or so to be off the stuff completely.

I mean, I could quit the Bup now and it wouldn't be too bad -- the withdrawals are fairly mild. But I really want to do a proper taper to give myself every possible chance of getting through the lethargy and depression that comes after detox with as little misery as possible. And tapering rather than jumping off the Bup might help with that.

Anyway, a week from now I'll be back in hell, struggling with the total lack of energy that Lanas talked about. I'm so terrified of it, it's the first thing I think about when I wake up in the morning and the last thing I think about at night before I go to sleep. How will I get through this paralyzing lethargy, I keep asking myself, when I've got a little baby to take care of and work that I need to do to put food on the table?

Well, I can whine about it all I want, but as Skipper says, there's no way around it. Some people (like Lanas) have a month or more of paralyzing lethargy/depression. Some people (like Witchywoman) are past the worst of it in a week or two. And some people (like Dive) don't suffer much of it at all.

I don't expect to get off scott free. It'll be bad, but I've got a very supporting wife, and I'll just get through it I guess.

What other choice do I have?

I mean, I know this is where most recovering addicts relapse -- not during initial withdrawals, but during the lethargy and depression phase that comes after. They relapse not to get high, but just so they can have enough energy to pull themselves out of a chair and clean the house or get some work done.

Anyway, I'm so sick and tired of being sick and tired I don't think anything can deflect me know from my goal: to get enough clean time, no matter how long that is, until I wake up in the morning and actually feel good again.

It may take a week (not likely). Or it may take two months (also not too likely). Probably it'll be a couple of weeks or so.

But what other choice do I have but to go through it. Going back to drugs only puts me in the same place.

And frankly, if I can't endure a bit of suffering for a few weeks, I don't deserve to have my life back or the love of my family. Because they're counting on me. I'm counting on me. And we deserve better than a life of sickness and addiction and secrets and lies.

Have you ever noticed, by the way, how difficult it is for addicts to endure suffering? I really think addiction does something to our minds, steals our spirit, erodes our strength.  

I'm not saying withdrawal and recovery isn't hard -- it's incredibly hard. But cancer is worse, folks, and so is chemotherapy. There are all kinds of horrible diseases and suffering out there that people have to endure. We should all be grateful that ours ends for the most part in just a few weeks.

So that's where I'm at. There's only one road forward -- there really is only one. And like Skipper says, we just have to put our heads down, keep an angel on our shoulders, and put one foot in front of the other on the road to freedom, health and vitality again.
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Be damned!!  It let me post.  Don't even know for sure what I want to say now that the site let me in.
Um, 48 y.o. hydro addict.  Started twenty years ago on Darvocet 1800 to 2400 mg. per day at the end of six years.  Clean 14 years. Slid into Vicodin 6 years ago for a year.  Clean for 5 years.  Developed degenerative disc disease and had rotator cuff damage about a year ago.  Now taking up to 150 mg. hydrocodone a day for last 6 months. Everything starting to hurt again anyway. I want out!
I have hydro resolves my adult ADHD, chronic insomnia, and of course the pain.  I still want out.
I'm beginning to wean down and will take it slowly (raving coward that I am). I have a wonderful co-dependant husband who I'm trying to get to go to Al-Anon, and the twenty-one y.o. daughter who started it all with her C-Section.  Both extremely supportive.
I'm puzzled.  In AA and NA, I was taught that we should never think of our situations as unique or special, but I've noted that many of you recommend assistance with Xanax, Baclofen, Benadryl. If I even take 25 mg. of Benadryl without a narcotic in me, it throws me into Insta-Withdrawal, primarily the restless limbs.  (*hideous* sensation!) This is only when I'm getting off the stuff, even when I've just taken 5 mg. three times a day for a week as prescribed by the dentist.  Once I've been clean for several months, I have no problem.  I've never taken Xanax until this last round of Slip, when I tried to take it without the Vicodin, though, same story.
I'm very, *very* grateful to have found this bunch.  You've all helped kick start me back into Recovery once again.
Blessings upon you all,
Wren
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GWH, Groovy, Meagin, Dive, Lana, oh, ye Gods, don't let me hurt any one by forgeting a name.  
All of you who ar struggling through this and don't know how it happened - The depression *DOES* go away, if it doesn't you very possibly had it before your addiction became active.  It's a good possibility this is why many of you became "hooked", you were self medicating an underlying condition for which their *are* alternative *legal* tx. My brother, same gene pool, has been off and on pain killers for, geez, it's got to be about 30 years.  When he's in pain, he takes them, when he's not, he stops.  No sweat.  I hate him. <grin. not really.> My darling husband has been taking Vicodin 10/650 4 to 5 x a day for six years.  *Never* takes more than prescribed, if he runs out, he's in pain 'til he gets more, but *that's all*.  <they're *both* evil dogs!>  
If your depression lingers more than a month or so, talk to a physician about the depression.  Try what they prescribe.  I'm betting it'll help the cravings, too. I don't have depression when I quit, or lingering lethargy, but then, I'm already taking Welbutrin for the depression. I think it might be a little different for everyone.  As I said in my first post, I can't take *any* form of sedative (even Benadryl) until I'm way clean, so I don't sleep at all for a month.
Meagin, when I came off of Darvocet (yes it *can* be physically addictive.  Oh, man, believe me!), I was fortunate enough to be in a very good in-house rehab program.  I was in for a month, which gave me the time to realize, I didn't crave the drug 'til I thought about being back with my husband.  He wasn't abusive, he wasn't a bad guy,  we just weren't right for each other and I'd twisted myself inside out trying to be the yuppy, suburban housewife he wanted.  You are not required to stay in any situation which makes you miserable.  Start checking into welfare offices for programs for single mothers.  There *is* a way to be free!
I'm sure I've babbled long enough for someone who should be listening.
Thank you all, again.
Wren
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First welcome back - I have been thinking about you. You gave a lot of yourself to me, which I think helps us all when we are trying to change our lives. I see you as succeeding but (don
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1st i want to thank everyone who has taken the time to support me when i so needed it,ive already failed,ive got a new scipt.It was just too much to fast.BUT im still taking the clonidine and oddly enough ive found that even when taking 3 40's instead of 30 40's the withdral was not like i dreaded,but then i never really went into full withdral.It does help me not to crave my cigerettes.Im down to 1/2 pack a day instead of 2 and thats great because today i paid $6.65 for i pack.Im still looking for someone who knows the whole recipe, if anyone does PLEEASE e-mail it to me at ***@****,ill repect your privacy and not email you back or get all wierd.In 3-4 days ill run out again and oddly(i use that word alot lately)Im not freaking,trying to hook up.Im just rolling along,too tired to run anymore.My daughter had a great day today,went swimming in the ocean,it was hot here 90*.Im trying to use the last of my rush to give her some good memorys for the roff time ahead.I got aher a little charm she wears and she  knows to hug it if she misses me/actully she been wearing it since she was 2months old,i just keep reinforcing it so she doesnt get too lonely.Even my husband been nice,we held hands today for the frist time in a long time to cross the street,now its very rare for us to have any physical contact aside from acidently brushing when passing in the hall.Ive seemed to lost tract of where this rambling note is running so Ill bow out now, everyone have a good night and hold on tight.
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Hi Meagain,

I hope you make it. You said >>Im trying to use the last of my rush to give her some good memorys for the roff time ahead<<.

I think I know what you mean, but she will get so much more from you emotionally and phsyically when you are clean.

I sent you the receipe. WHile it has been criticized in the past by the Doc who used to moderate this board, it has worked for many people, and thanks are due to Thomas, good old Thomas, wherever he may be.

Let me or anyone here know if we can help.

Peace,

jF
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thanks, I am sorry ,i was rereading what i wrote last night and i didnt mean to worry any one,I admit i was in a bad place a few weeks ago but i just meant that i was spending the rest of the buzz making her happy so next week when that FLU comes,I wont feel so bad about her begin stuck in the house-after all anyone can get the flu right,other peoples kids survior it and so will mine.I have to say THANK U  THANK U THANK U if it wasnt for this bourd i dont know where i would be,its like a string that i hold tight to keep me grounded.You have all taught me so much ,and ive decied that i want to live and to stop beating up myself,its like the saying its better to have loved and lost then to never have loved at all,except for the first time its myself who is worth loving.Of course you all realize that I am physo and could flipp mood like ---poof! but hey it keeps life intresting for now so thanks again  I love you guys
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Hey--while you have that FLU next week, go to the library, rent LOTS of movies and put your daughter in front of the TV.  And don't feel one bit guilty for it.  I told myself when I was going through the worst part of both being sick and then the lethargy that I had to ease up on myself as this "superwoman" that I try to be--work lagged, my house cleaning has gone by the wayside, and my time with my daughter has become "Want to watch a movie and eat popcorn?"   It isn't the best but it is the best FOR THE MOMENT and it will pass.  She has enjoyed it--it has been different (b/c we are always going places--to the Children's Museum, to the zoo, to the library, to the park, etc.).  So let her watch tons of TV for the next few weeks while you get yourself through a very rough time--then in the end, you will both be so much better off.  You can do it! And in the end, your daughter will be happiest.  My thoughts and prayers are with you--keep posting; it really makes a difference--this forum has really seen me through (THANKS EVERYONE).
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Dear Everyone,

I am, at the moment, withdrawing from opioid painkillers. The problem is that I have two incurable illnesses which need pain relief and will do so until I die. The Pain Clinic has prescribed me various things from morphine (in-patient), to acupam,DHC,various Co-things and now Temgesic. That's me. I really want to tell you all how humbled and touched I feel when reading the site. Pain Control Medicine is very basic in England and the treatment you get depends, often, on your postcode (zip code). Having money helps but I have none and fall onto the National Health Service for treatment. It is sites like this that help and this is the best.

Best Wishes

Peck
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peck,  i am sorry to hear about the medical system there for the poor or not so rich.  i hope you can get help soon.  what are you
coming off of or do you have chronic pain? I've always loved the BBC and the UK in general. i guess there are draw backs to every place. good luck and Blessings, Ava



to no one,
depression is knowing you've tried to help people unselfishly. then having a person who has tried to get rid of you since you've
been on the forum for 2 weeks call me a loose cannon.  i am one of the most reserved people i know.
i should just let it go.  sure i post when i see someone who needs help.  that is the purpose of the forum.  i only post to help or exchange information with a person i would call a friend.
now i wonder why i put myself through this, i could really make a person happy by quitting the forum. however; i like rowanshyne,
skipper, tracy, hippy, jessesarpy, irish rose, hinkster, mr.michael, and many more who post.  i like those on the bottom of the forum : Dr.X, mimi, and others.
you will not find my post under something like buprenex detoxing which i know nothing.  i think it was the cars "should i stay or should i go?".  this is something i enjoy, but if i am useless, then i am hurting the forum.  i don't want to hurt the forum.  not that i hold any credence to what she said about me.  speaking of jabs and down right mean posts, that sure got to me.
one day a person will be attacked and will be a loose cannon, and i can see something bad happening.  i am glad that will not be on my conscience or karma.  maybe it is displacement.  i just do not feel i deserved it anymore than she felt she deserved it.
i will not assume that you all know me.  i will tell you that i  have no motives other than an addict helping another addict.  i share the hardships of my life, and maybe that is wrong.  who knows?  i do not want to leave. i just do not know if i can stay.
i will take a break especially while i am working.  i can ignore
this person.  it is just the previous remarks that were so off base.  i hope you feel like you scored, when that was a wild, foul ball.  i really could retaliate, but i do not feel that would be healthy for anyone.  one thing happened, the help i felt
i was giving to others, no longer feels that way.  you took away
my feeling of usefulness.  thank you.
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