Withdrawal and a strange mark

[Lorkust]

I stopped drinking for good last night, but I still have the shakes today.  When will this withdrawal symtom subside?   Also, I have this purple-hickey like mark on my neck that appeared out of nowhere.  I didn't have it all day, then while on the phone later that evening, it appeared.  Could this be from drinking?  I'm really worried that I may drop dead.  Please help me!

[spook]

How long and how much have you been drinking?
Have you every stoped abrupty before after drinking for similar periods and amounts?
Then some answers.
Note,it is possible to die from alcohol withdrawal,but so far it is rare.

[Pixie]

I don't think you will drop dead. The mark sure sounds strange, but maybe it's a bruise. Were you thrashing in your sleep last night? Sometimes the shakes from withdrawal can be pretty violent. Once when I was going through withdrawal I had abrubt spasms that would make my arm or leg fling out with alarming force. It would happen every 15-30 seconds, too. I could see how something like that could cause bruises.
If you are really concerned for your health, then you should go to the hospital. You may need the support and medicines they can provide to help you detoxify anyway. Doing it on your own doesn't have the highest success rate. Best wishes to you. I'd like to see you get through this-you have already taken the first step!
Pixie

[mdp1954]

I am a member of two online recovery groups for Rx addiction.  We can be found at:

www.clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/pillsanonymous  and
www.clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/readladviceforrealrecovery.

Or go to Yahoo.com, click clubs, click support, click recovery and search pills anonymous or real advice for real recovery.

Hope to see you all there.

Mary

[Frank Lee]

It is not "rare" to die from ethanol w/d, it happens all the time.This person needs to get into a hospital. This is the kind of esoteric, irresponsible advice you don't want to be giving. Where the hell is a moderator? Christ, what a stupid response. Sorry, but this is not an itellectual game of I know more than you - the individual is in trouble. Spook - what an apt name. This makes me really mad - I thought this was a board that helped people.

Lorkust - GET TO AN ER ROOM NOW! , tell them how much you were drinking and when you stopped. Also, get tested for HIV.

Flee.

[spook]

Come up with some statistics to back up your predominently EMOTIVE reactionary `response`,if you do you will see the error,
IT IS RARE TO DIE FROM ALCOHOL WITHDRAWAL IT IS RARE TO DIE FROM ALCOHOL WITHDRAWAL IT IS RARE TO DIE FROM ALCOHOL WITHDRAWAL IT IS RARE TO DIE FROM ALCOHOL WITHDRAWAL IT IS RARE TO DIE FROM ALCOHOL WITHDRAWAL IT IS RARE TO DIE FROM ALCOHOL WITHDRAWAL IT IS RARE TO DIE FROM ALCOHOL WITHDRAWAL

As far as Moderators go,do you think You qualify?,I know I do.
HERE is the key word "RARE".

[spook]

Christ,its "RARE" to go out on a friday night and fall in love,but what the hell people do all the time,DEFINE "RARE",1 in 1000 ,1 in 100 1 in 10 ?,come on,**** I gave reasonable advice and you come up with absolute Garbage,how about some more handy advice:the only mark you need to worry about is the 666 appearing on your forehead!.
Are you Challenging my 23 years of work in this field,if so be prepeared for a battle neither of us will win.
Now pull finger out and give quotes as per stats from dying from alcohol withdrawal(ie 1 in 1234)etc etc and the exact definition of "rare".In the same numerical logic schemata.
Or shut the **** up.

[spook]

Quote:"itellectual game of I know more than you - the individual is in trouble. Spook - what an apt name".
=================================================================
All I FEEL like saying now is:=
You cannot even spell!.I am `far` more intelligent than you,my name is LUKE. G. EDWARD(not SPOOK), I live at u54/21 harvest rd ,North
Fremantle Western Australia 6159, Phone# [phone] and email address of ***@**** am 38 years old. born on 6-4-1963,that is 4-6-1963 to you Yanks,I suppose next you want my credit card also?,well **** off.
You want to come clean on exactly who you are?or do you lack confidence?What are your Qualifications?.

My dear friends named me spook over 25 years ago and still affectionately call me spooky,so what does this do to your "apt" analogical psuedointellectual interpretation.

Go and practice Wichcraft or something that will keep a Psychotic brain like yours content.

You are the one in trouble MATE.

[spook]

Comment By: McGill to Frank Lee on Saturday, March 31, 2001

"How am I the pest? I wrote a helpful comment for the man. I get called a pest while So called "Spook" writes things no one needs".
=================================================================
Both of You are welcome to head over to the mental health forum,if you want help.

Mcgill,if you can focus on something other than your pathetic MALE ego for 2 seconds you will notice that my replies are the most requested on this forum(take 2 hours and read every thread),I try to help people because I have suffered(SAME) and know what it feels like.Your motives are not for me to judge,but I do find you at pest even at even your best.

Maybe you and Frank can do some MALE bonding and gang up on the SPOOK that threatens your pathetic EGO`s.
Signed:Luke,Also known as Spook to people who like me.  

[spook]

If you are or were going to DIE you would have done so by now,I will presume you have,seems you have not answered in 3 days,If only you listened to Frank you would be still alive.Oh well,still 6 Billion people left,we will see if we can manage without you.Although "I" heard the local Liqour store is going into liquidation.Is not life CRUEL.

[spook]

An interview with Cindy Thompson and Phil Garfinkel , who together created Med Help International, a non-profit World Wide Web site based in Melbourne, Florida
Q: The site is very explicit in explaining to visitors that the forums are not intended to offer diagnoses, and visitors really must see their physicians for specific information. Do you have fears that visitors may not take these warnings seriously enough, that they'll use sites like yours to make self-diagnoses?

Thompson: I hope there has been enough news coverage worldwide about that very issue, cautioning everyone about anything on the Internet, not just medical information, but any kind of information. So we hope that people are aware that it's for educational purposes or support purposes. It is certainly not a place you can get a diagnosis, and anyone who claims to offer a diagnosis is not dealing with the public squarely.

[spook]

Next frank will be telling us that the mark is caused from AIDS,due to HIV,specifically,How do you spell it frank "KARPOGSKUY CARCIDIOMOA",sorry maybe need another 23 years helping Drug Addicts.

[Frank Lee]

Spook,

My tone was unfortunate. I was mad. I still am.

In the US approximately 1.2 million hospital admissions are for problems related to alcohol abuse a significant % of these patients develop delirium tremens (DT).  Mortality rates from pure, full-blown alcohol withdrawal and DT historically have been as high as 20%. In the past 30 years, however, increased recognition and improved treatments have reduced mortality from DT to approximately 1%. Many patients who experience alcohol withdrawal have additional medical or traumatic conditions that may increase associated morbidity and mortality (your inept attempt to discuss an AIDS related skin disease is one of these conditions and alone should have alerted one to get the guy into care). This may be less than 500 a year (in the US, Mate, who knows what it is world wide).

Perhaps your solipsistic self-absorptions obviate compassion for the relative few who won’t live to read your sensitive little witticisms. You are a young man – have you ever pulled one of these fellows off the street and got them into an ER, with barely a pulse and puke an urine covering their bodies? Fact is it was bad advice and either be a big enough man to admit or change your approach. Or go on ad neausem about your superb intellect which what’s most important here, isn’t it.

Flee

[spook]

As you well know free association is but one sign of a Psychosis,anyway you more than demonstrated yours here,and you tell me about "Esoteric",what do "YOU" know about Secret Socities(freemasons)?WELL,speak Up for your Society?.

Comment By: Frank Lee on Saturday, April 14, 2001



"Spook you are one stimulating shaman. My bowels are moved by your posts. Eat speed and read the DISM? The irony here is that the DISM and med protocol models are ripe for your sort of crticism. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

The sun's not yellow, it's chicken.

I vow to post only when stoned.

FLee"
I actually like you,you may hate me,but you have something?.  

[spook]

Frank your last post confirmed you are superior to me,in ability to actually HELP people in need and I am willing to change and learn from you,I now respect you very much,I hope you can forgive me for my above posts and I now understand your anger with my original post/s,in this thread and (not in this thread),I new 1% was around right,but I should not play Russian Roulette with somebodies life even with a 100 shooter.Even if they would(do not) not know their head from a barn door.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Ethanol abuse should be taken very seriously.  Frank is right on the money here and I'm glad to see that you understand his point.
The sad thing is that people on alcohol are capable of anything, including dropping dead.  I've seen it happen first hand and it's not pretty. Have a wonderful day, mate!  J.B.

[Frank Lee]

I take Spook's last post at face value and I appreciate the general tone here - good and caring advice.

Thanks,

Flee

[Theo]

This is my first post to this forum and I want to thank you all in advance for listening.

After reading todays dialogue, I wish to point out that many of you who post here frequently may have lost perspective on what happens to the information you present here. The sad truth is many people take all the advice they read here as fact regardless of who wrote it. This "power of the written word" phenomenon should make all of us think twice before posting any advice. In this type of venue the only thing worse that someone not taking you seriously is someone who does. Especially when the advice offered may not have been properly thought out. For what it's worth, in almost every situation imaginable seeking the help of professionals will only help while not seeking professional help could be deadly.

Please, if you are going to make a mistake (and we all do) make the mistake of being too cautious.

Thanks,

Theo

[cindi]

Thank you for the online site, they may be helpful to alot of people but I have to say that Real recovery is not found in any forum or on the computer for that matter...sometimes people do use this as a substitue for the real thing, I come here to find support and to talk with other people in the same situation as myself...I have found alot of compassionate people who do not "preach" the 12 steps but offer their words of wisdom and encouragement to real people with real problems.....thank you cindi

[siliconboy]

"STOPPED DRINKING FOR GOOD LAST NIGHT" - purple mark that looks like a hickey goes then goes away and comes back when on the phone - how would you know? Do you look in the mirror when you're on the phone? I certainly could be wrong but I must say that after reading that post several times it just doesn't ring very genuine - at all

[siliconboy]

Ok I have my head out of my ass now and I would like to apologize to you. My father drank himself to death and I'm an old retired dope fiend but I have no excuse for minimizing your anxiety and pain. Please forgive me for the previous post. AA and NA - Alcoholics and Narcotics anonymous are just about everywhere these days and if you don't have a hookup - just look in the phone book or search the web for a meeting place near you. First off - please get medical attention for both of your issues. Coming of booze will leave you feeling shitty for 2 or 3 days depending on age, general health and the size of yer habit. If you don't have medical insurance - go to the emergency room and be straight-up about everything because the sooner you do this in general, and I mean being honest with yourself and the world the sooner the universe will respond in kind. The hospitals have to treat and refer you so take advantage of the program. Understand that what you are dealing with is a medical condition and not a moral issue - you're not more or less because of chemical dependency it's just a physiological fact of your life. Keep coming here because you are in good company. We are a bunch of nuts with the golden heart. Keep on truckin'.
david

[spook]

Exactly my conclusion,and the fact the person was up and around talking on the Phone the following EVENING and claimed it to be the last time they will give up drinking(ie "for good"),Made me think they have done it all before.,it all made me think that this person was not after serious MEDICAL help and was asking for a convoluted reply.(attention seeking)
Never the less,we NOW know know that 1% of Alcoholics DIE from withdrawal symptoms(although I am noy sure if that is inpatient or do it alone statistics),if it is occuring that 1% of DT`s cause death in Hospitalized Patients,I am VERY dissapointed with the Medical Profession.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

In my opinion, alcoholism is a fatal illness or at the very least, potentially fatal.  Most of us do not die in DT's and seizures from abrupt withdrawal.  Many die from accidents and just plain suicidal behaviour while drunk.  A cry for attention is a cry for help nonetheless. J.B.

[PS >>>>Annie]

.....That's all it is, advice.  We do not have to ba a Harvard graduate, cardcarrying, PH.D to post on any message board.  We bring something to people, they can't recieve from doctors, or neighbors, and that is our "own" unique experiences, and this is what makes a forum, well, a forum.  If we had to take 24 to think about everything we post, then the experience here would be nill.  We probably wouldn't have this board.  We all have to use what we can and ignore, what we don't need in the way of advice, otherwise: "we'd all need our hands held just to walk across the street..."


???Annie

[cindi]

Thank you Annie,  very well said,  people who read come to this forum, read the posts and decide for themselves what to do....I know I read what is given to me and then either take it to heart or ignore it...and you are so right that is all it is..advice...not everyone even listens to half of what we say anyway...we have proof of that     Hey annie, wuzzup,  haven't heard much from you lately...hope yall are doin ok  send me some mail   love ya   cindi

[spook]

Everybody's who's anybody in advanced computing and consciousness studies is scrambling in the same way to understand Quantum Theory these days.

A main tenet of the theory is that on the quantum level, particles can exist in what's called "superposition," or to our way of thinking, in two or more places at the same time.

[spook]

My above post more than proves that.Also drop me an email sometime if you FEEL like it,their is nothing wrong with it now,ask Annie or Siliconboy.
OPIOIDS/CONSCIOUSNESS/FEELING,just do not mix.

[cindi]

I sent you some mail to see if it worked...I told you the forces don't want us talking   LOL  In case you didn't get my mail...those koalas are so damn cute they make me start giggling every time I see them  hope all is well with you.....love cin

[spook]

I got the email,maybe it was gods will or alien technology(same thing?) that allowed one way communication.This Picture below is over 400 years old.

<p><center><img src=http://homepage.ntlworld.com/m.hurley/lippiufo.jpg  </a></center>

[Brandiwine]

I agree with the fact that most still die while on alcohol...my father did, despite the warnings that his liver was shot.

[cindi]

The pic is awesome.. Did you get the e-mail I sent today?  talk to me Luke......love cin

[spook]

I am upset that your father did this to himself.A friend of mine died of liver failure due to alcohol and Hepatitis C combination.I am giving you all the thought I can on this and I am confused,I feel futile,what could you do to help him,I am sure it is a long story,I tried for years to stop my friend from drinking with hep C and no success.I do not know the answer why,life is not always straught forward.

[Brandiwine]

It is a long story, you're right.  Basically he was a very sucessfull businessman that didn't have an outlet for his worries, so he drank them away.  He didn't want to worry us with business or financial problems, so he bottled it up...literally. I was only 15 when he died, so there was nothing I really could have done to help.  Unfortunatly, right after that I went on a drinking binge myself, until I woke up one day and realized how ugly his death was and that I did not want that.  I really never developed a "dependence" on it, and now I may drink once a year or not at all.  The problem is, I think I have transferred that addiction over to pain medicines, but it may just be that I am so terrified of addiction that I think that is the case.  I have 2 different medical problems, one of which is a shoulder that dislocates anytime I relax it, I've had 2 surgeries that havent taken so they are doing another one in a few weeks, but if I don't take the pills it hurts any time I accidentally relax it.  Also, I have recently been diagnosed with cervical cancer, and I have had extremely painful periods for a couple of months, so I take vicoprofen for a week or so during that time, and when they remove the tumors I will probably have to take them then.  It is Lorcet that I take with the shoulder.  I never take more than prescribed, I really don't even get a high at all anymore.  But, I don't feel myself when I don't take them either.  So I'm kindof in a middle territory, I would think that I would take more and more for a high if it were a mental addiction, I only take like 4 - 6 a day, some days even less, depending on how I slept on my shoulder mainly.  Could it just be a physical dependence that causes me to feel icky when I don't take them?  I'm in a grey area...could you enlighten me?  You guys seem to know the most about it...boy I got off the alcoholism didn't I? :)  Not really, because I think it's my fear of addiction (not only my dad, but his mom was an alcoholic and my sister is a narcotic addict) that makes me always hysterical that I am addicted.  Any help will be appreciated on this. :)

[spook]

You would know if you are Addicted to them,as you would be using them inappropriately,to mask boredom,low self esteem,etc.
You will have a Physical and Psychological Dependence now and that is normal,it means aching,yawning,sneezing,running eyes and nose,fatigue,anxiety,hypersensitivity to any stimuli,etc,when you do not take them.Addiction seems to have its roots in the ability of the drug to stop emotional pain and if their was none before using then you probably will not become addicted.
It is difficult to take enough to stop the pain without getting a little high from them and one does need to increase the dose a bit if used long term,but it is all very specific to the individual,some people tend to need a steadily increasing dose and others can settle on to a particular dose and be happy at that level for months.
Addiction usually occurs in people with pre existing Psychopathology,some are self destructive and seek to escape their feelings.
You sound very level headed and when you need to stop, will! (I hope)by gradually tapering off your dose and be done with it,although you will not feel completely back to normal for up to 6 months.
Craving seems to be associated with Addiction,not dependance-as a person dependant but not addicted feels bad as they withdraw but has no desire to take more of the drug that is making them feel sick.
Addicticted people are usually TOTALLY preocupied with obtaining or getting off their drug.
You could look at it like a long alcohol hang over,most of us do not drink more alcohol to rid ourselves of a hangover,we just recover without becoming an alcoholic.
Their is also a pleasure aspect to Addiction in that the person appears to enjoy the drug far to much to the exclusion of all other rewarding activities.Its all up to the individual and some very straught people have become dependant but I do not think Addiction ever really occured with them.I hope you can use your pain medication for PHYSICAL pain and stop when the pain eases.

[neenie]

very well said spook, now back to me haha JK i did what you said. i called that place. no luck. so what next? read your mail. had to return this dumb scanner, my brother is the one who knows how to operate it. i don't know anything about computers, thanks so much for what you said. i love your wisdom. and you too neenie

[Brandiwine]

Thanks for the quick reply Spook..I feel like I am level headed but as I said, my fear of addiction makes me think I am all the time.  My sister is in a bad situation, because she has been addicted to narcotics for years now, yet she has a chronic condition that requires pain medicine.  She almost killed herself a couple of weeks ago when she went through 5000 cc of demerol in 2 days...!! Can you imagine?  The docs said anyone who wasn't used to it like she was would have been dead.  That was when they decided to taper her off of the IV meds in the hospital, and she has done very well so far for over a week now of just taking one Oxy IR every 6 hours.  She has a little pain still, but she's having to learn other pain management techniques to boost the pain medicine so that she will not abuse it.  This would be so hard to do, I think...it almost seems easier not to do it at all than to have it hanging in your face all the time.  My mom carefully watches her medicine and gives her the doses personally, then hides the bottle.  This is all at my sister's request.  It's been a hard road and has taken the whole family, but I think she's going to make it!