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Withdrawals
I have a friend who went to a detox for alcohol and oxycodone and ativan. Her real problem was the alcohol. She took oxycodone and ativan under a doctor's orders for pain and anxiety but did overuse them at times. I'm sort of disappointed in the whole process. I've gone through 12 detox/rehabs with my ex-husband; some good and some bad but this was REALLY different. Looking to see if anyone has any answers about what's going on.
First, she went in through the ER, and I stayed with her and was surprised at how much they let her suffer. All they gave her was 2 mg. ativan for the withdrawals. When she was medically cleared, they sent her to a nearby detox. I didn't know anything about it one way or the other and neither did she. She was in for 6 days. She really suffered with withdrawals. They seemed to give her a standard 2 libriums every so many hours. On discharge, she was given a bunch of prescriptions: trazadone for sleep, Campral for cravings, some medication for high blood pressure.
She decided to go to their after care program. She is not allowed to take her regular prescriptions of 3 to 4 10 mg. oxycodone for an injury, nor the .5 mg. ativan 3 times a day for anxiety or her muscle relaxer she takes at bedtime. She understands why and I do as well, to a point.
She came out of the detox last Thursday but was still having withdrawals. (She had asked about suboxone as a lot of people in their were given that but the doctor said no but didn't give a real reason. Though I did tell her from what I read here that suboxone had it's own issues for a lot of people and it could be jumping from he frying pan into the fire.)
Well, here is is Monday and she is STILL having bad withdrawals. She's miserable. She went to the after care and I've told her to ask them about this but in the meantime, could this be normal? She's still shaking (hands) and she still has the restless legs and feels like things are crawling under the skin. She's miserable. Not quite as bad at the height of her withdrawals but certainly a far cry from normal.
She's had a really rough time lately with a lot of things, and it breaks my heart to see her like this. Is this the PAWS I've read about? Or is this just a normal withdrawal ... to still feel this bad 11 days later? She doesn't have computer access at home and can't really check this site a work.
I have suggested a multi-vitamin, 1000 mg Vitamin C, a magnesium and the restless leg stuff. They might be helping but only minimally. Just wondering if something else could be going on here.
I know someone here will have some input :) Thanks.
First, she went in through the ER, and I stayed with her and was surprised at how much they let her suffer. All they gave her was 2 mg. ativan for the withdrawals. When she was medically cleared, they sent her to a nearby detox. I didn't know anything about it one way or the other and neither did she. She was in for 6 days. She really suffered with withdrawals. They seemed to give her a standard 2 libriums every so many hours. On discharge, she was given a bunch of prescriptions: trazadone for sleep, Campral for cravings, some medication for high blood pressure.
She decided to go to their after care program. She is not allowed to take her regular prescriptions of 3 to 4 10 mg. oxycodone for an injury, nor the .5 mg. ativan 3 times a day for anxiety or her muscle relaxer she takes at bedtime. She understands why and I do as well, to a point.
She came out of the detox last Thursday but was still having withdrawals. (She had asked about suboxone as a lot of people in their were given that but the doctor said no but didn't give a real reason. Though I did tell her from what I read here that suboxone had it's own issues for a lot of people and it could be jumping from he frying pan into the fire.)
Well, here is is Monday and she is STILL having bad withdrawals. She's miserable. She went to the after care and I've told her to ask them about this but in the meantime, could this be normal? She's still shaking (hands) and she still has the restless legs and feels like things are crawling under the skin. She's miserable. Not quite as bad at the height of her withdrawals but certainly a far cry from normal.
She's had a really rough time lately with a lot of things, and it breaks my heart to see her like this. Is this the PAWS I've read about? Or is this just a normal withdrawal ... to still feel this bad 11 days later? She doesn't have computer access at home and can't really check this site a work.
I have suggested a multi-vitamin, 1000 mg Vitamin C, a magnesium and the restless leg stuff. They might be helping but only minimally. Just wondering if something else could be going on here.
I know someone here will have some input :) Thanks.
The rehab I went to for the most part were sympathetic and treated us well. Their official stance was to treat it like a disease, however, not everyone on staff treated it as such. I think it's true with all non-addicts and those who haven't personally experienced it to treat it as a moral weakness. I hope to see that change in my lifetime, but without personally experiencing it, doesn't seem plausible. I guess it is just human nature to assume that others can just quit something that is doing them harm. With education and the few that understand, it can turn around.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Alcohol wd's are brutal on their own, let alone add Ativan to the mix. I am glad you are there for her. I do believe most of the detox places lose their compassion for human beings. There is such a stigma attached to alcoholism and drug addiction and it is really sad. I hope she gets the answers to her questions. Let us know how she is doing. sara
She's going to talk to the doctor in the after-care program. I wrote down two pages of questions for her to ask. They gave her all kinds of crazy meds on discharge that I can't figure out why. For example, they gave her two different high blood pressure meds, even though she doesn't have high blood pressure. Granted it was up while she was withdrawing from the alcohol but I'm wondering if her blood pressure is way too low and that's one of the reasons she's feeling weak, shaky, etc.
I just feel so bad. And I'm going through a taper of my pain meds and I feel like I'm cheating. I definitely have mild to medium withdrawal symptoms and I know they're going to last a long time. (I can't do it cold turkey due to responsibilities) I know until I'm completely off it will be a roller coaster. But at least mine are manageable even if I'm a bit miserable.
I know how bad withdrawal is as I've experienced it twice. Once when my medications arrived late in the mail, I had about 2 or 3 days. They got bad on day 3. Then a couple of weeks ago, I thought I should quit everything and ended up with about 3 to 4 days of really bad withdrawals. Much worse than the previous time. I literally couldn't put one foot in front of the other.
Because I'm just physically dependent, I get the option to taper down with my doctor and it makes me feel guilty. I just wish that everyone had the option of working with a doctor, whether they want to go cold turkey or taper. And I wish everyone had great friend and family support. (I don't have that. I have my fiance but that's it.)
To me, the whole process she went through was so totally demeaning. It was crazy. In the ER, there was no empathy at all. (She had to be medically cleared to go into the detox.) I just think ALL people should be treated with dignity. And in this day and age, if you go into a detox, I don't think you should feel as sick as she was feeling.
I just feel so bad. And I'm going through a taper of my pain meds and I feel like I'm cheating. I definitely have mild to medium withdrawal symptoms and I know they're going to last a long time. (I can't do it cold turkey due to responsibilities) I know until I'm completely off it will be a roller coaster. But at least mine are manageable even if I'm a bit miserable.
I know how bad withdrawal is as I've experienced it twice. Once when my medications arrived late in the mail, I had about 2 or 3 days. They got bad on day 3. Then a couple of weeks ago, I thought I should quit everything and ended up with about 3 to 4 days of really bad withdrawals. Much worse than the previous time. I literally couldn't put one foot in front of the other.
Because I'm just physically dependent, I get the option to taper down with my doctor and it makes me feel guilty. I just wish that everyone had the option of working with a doctor, whether they want to go cold turkey or taper. And I wish everyone had great friend and family support. (I don't have that. I have my fiance but that's it.)
To me, the whole process she went through was so totally demeaning. It was crazy. In the ER, there was no empathy at all. (She had to be medically cleared to go into the detox.) I just think ALL people should be treated with dignity. And in this day and age, if you go into a detox, I don't think you should feel as sick as she was feeling.
If you are saying they have completely taken her off the Ativan which she has been taking for years, then it's not surprising that she would still be having withdrawals. According to Dr Ashton & the experience of many long term benzo users, it takes months to comfortably withdraw from Ativan after long term use & is best done with valium which has a much longer half life.
If your friend has had alcohol addiction for some time, her GABA neurotransmitters, (the ones that help you sleep & chill out), will be under-functioning & the removal of the Ativan which also increases GABA will make this worse.
I am very sorry that your friend has been treated in this way. I don't believe that leaving someone to go through prolonged withdrawals like this helps with recovery. Is there any chance of finding her a sympathetic doctor who could help with a benzo taper?
If your friend has had alcohol addiction for some time, her GABA neurotransmitters, (the ones that help you sleep & chill out), will be under-functioning & the removal of the Ativan which also increases GABA will make this worse.
I am very sorry that your friend has been treated in this way. I don't believe that leaving someone to go through prolonged withdrawals like this helps with recovery. Is there any chance of finding her a sympathetic doctor who could help with a benzo taper?
we also have some detox centres like that in the uk, years ago i went to one for alcohol addiction, i felt like a leper! any way, its great your friend has you, i wish you both well,
Thanks, Stevo. The whole process of detox and rehab is so demeaning and humiliating from what I see. All of it is designed around insurance. It's not about the programs plan or what an individual needs. You stay as long as your insurance will allow.
It hurts to see someone you love still hurting physically. I think we both expected that she'd have to deal with the mental part of the addiction but I think we both figured she was going to be kept much more comfortable than she was. It seemed like she essentially detoxed on her own with nothing to help her (other than the knowledge that if she went into seizures, there were medical personnel around.)
I guess I just thought the physical part of withdrawal would be over by now. She also feels some of the medications (Camprol in particular) is causing side effects like shaking and weakness. They also sent him home with Paxil, which, from what I understand, can be very hard to get off.
It just seems like she'd ask questions but wouldn't get any real answers. They treated these patients so condescendingly. It bothers me. Just because my friend is an alcohol doesn't make her stupid.
I'll stop. I just wonder why does detox have to be so negative??? At least this one. I've seen some good ones that my ex went through. It's just such a shame there can't be more dignity and respect in detox.
It hurts to see someone you love still hurting physically. I think we both expected that she'd have to deal with the mental part of the addiction but I think we both figured she was going to be kept much more comfortable than she was. It seemed like she essentially detoxed on her own with nothing to help her (other than the knowledge that if she went into seizures, there were medical personnel around.)
I guess I just thought the physical part of withdrawal would be over by now. She also feels some of the medications (Camprol in particular) is causing side effects like shaking and weakness. They also sent him home with Paxil, which, from what I understand, can be very hard to get off.
It just seems like she'd ask questions but wouldn't get any real answers. They treated these patients so condescendingly. It bothers me. Just because my friend is an alcohol doesn't make her stupid.
I'll stop. I just wonder why does detox have to be so negative??? At least this one. I've seen some good ones that my ex went through. It's just such a shame there can't be more dignity and respect in detox.
I agree and have felt sometimes that rehab/detox were full of contradictions. For me it was such a long process, and having gone through it multiple times, I generally felt worse when I left. I was prescribed medications also upon discharge which really didn't help things either. It was counterproductive for me to go home and pop more pills when that was what I was trying to quit! Something to help gauge the recovery process is to recall the length of time a person used. It doesn't mean 1 year abuse = 1 year to recover fully, it just reminds the person that it just takes awhile.
I wished I was able to stay in longer and avoid the relapses that proved to be more costly than the initial treatment. It just isn't possible for most of us because of insurance and high treatment costs.
Your a great friend Mellie, and she I'm sure is greatful for your support. She will have a tough challenge ahead of her and the only advice I would have is to just keep pushing forward. Alcohol is hard enough by itself and throw in the other medications just makes it more difficult. It does get easier with time, it just takes a tremendous amount of patience.
I wished I was able to stay in longer and avoid the relapses that proved to be more costly than the initial treatment. It just isn't possible for most of us because of insurance and high treatment costs.
Your a great friend Mellie, and she I'm sure is greatful for your support. She will have a tough challenge ahead of her and the only advice I would have is to just keep pushing forward. Alcohol is hard enough by itself and throw in the other medications just makes it more difficult. It does get easier with time, it just takes a tremendous amount of patience.
Thanks, Vicki. I don't know much about PAWS and thought, too, it might be early but figured I'd ask. She wasn't addicted to the other meds but was dependent on them as she had been on them for a bad back injury as well as an injury she received when she donated a kidney to her husband (now ex) years ago. And he Ativan she has is prescribed as well and is not abused. Really, her only issue has been alcohol.
I feel so bad for her because I encouraged her to detox telling her it was safer and that she'd feel comfortable; that they wouldn't suffer. (I went through 11 or 12 detoxes with my ex-husband and they were always generous with things to bring him down.) This detox was VERY different. And I don't like the meds she was sent home with. They seem unnecessary and she's having a reaction to the Campral.
She does not want to involve her primary care doctor in this as she thinks she'll think less of her. Told her that wasn't true but I do understand her fear.
She's in an aftercare program now that runs from 10 am to 3 pm. They've told her she cannot stay in the program if she uses her prescription meds from her doctor unless she allows them to contact her doctor and tell her she was in a detox.
It really hurts watching someone you care about suffer. And I've done more than my share of it. I just can't turn my back on her.
Even though she wasn't addicted to the oxycodone or ativan, she had been on it for years (10mg. oxycodone 3 to 4 times a day and .5 mg 3 times a day I'm pretty sure.) Could she still be having physical withdrawals from those this far out?
She wants the aftercare program so even though she hasher medicine from her primary care doctor, she won't take them. I've suggested looking into other after-care programs or AA instead but she seems to want to do this one as it was affiliated with the detox (which to me would be a big reason to not go to that one.)
Thanks for the help. And you're right; addiction should never be about punishment but unfortunately many doctors are still into shaming.
I feel so bad for her because I encouraged her to detox telling her it was safer and that she'd feel comfortable; that they wouldn't suffer. (I went through 11 or 12 detoxes with my ex-husband and they were always generous with things to bring him down.) This detox was VERY different. And I don't like the meds she was sent home with. They seem unnecessary and she's having a reaction to the Campral.
She does not want to involve her primary care doctor in this as she thinks she'll think less of her. Told her that wasn't true but I do understand her fear.
She's in an aftercare program now that runs from 10 am to 3 pm. They've told her she cannot stay in the program if she uses her prescription meds from her doctor unless she allows them to contact her doctor and tell her she was in a detox.
It really hurts watching someone you care about suffer. And I've done more than my share of it. I just can't turn my back on her.
Even though she wasn't addicted to the oxycodone or ativan, she had been on it for years (10mg. oxycodone 3 to 4 times a day and .5 mg 3 times a day I'm pretty sure.) Could she still be having physical withdrawals from those this far out?
She wants the aftercare program so even though she hasher medicine from her primary care doctor, she won't take them. I've suggested looking into other after-care programs or AA instead but she seems to want to do this one as it was affiliated with the detox (which to me would be a big reason to not go to that one.)
Thanks for the help. And you're right; addiction should never be about punishment but unfortunately many doctors are still into shaming.
Hi-
It's a little early for PAWS. It sounds like she's still withdrawing from alcohol,sort of. She's detoxed enough not to have seizures but the weeks following alcohol withdrawal are not pleasant. There's just an "out of it", crummy,empty feeling and a lot of shakes. I've seen this a lot. She needs other vits as well: thiamine,niacin,and triple the dose of vit C.
Was she addicted to the other meds? Usually,folks are allowed Ativan to go home with
following alcohol detox,in my experience anyway. It seems a shame to have been cut off from everything all at once. This should never be about punishment...Does she have meds at home and just not using them?
It's a little early for PAWS. It sounds like she's still withdrawing from alcohol,sort of. She's detoxed enough not to have seizures but the weeks following alcohol withdrawal are not pleasant. There's just an "out of it", crummy,empty feeling and a lot of shakes. I've seen this a lot. She needs other vits as well: thiamine,niacin,and triple the dose of vit C.
Was she addicted to the other meds? Usually,folks are allowed Ativan to go home with
following alcohol detox,in my experience anyway. It seems a shame to have been cut off from everything all at once. This should never be about punishment...Does she have meds at home and just not using them?
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