Withdrawl..

[Jay-Jay]

What withdrawl is worse, Vicodin or Valium?  Just having a debate with a friend and we would like to get your opinions.. Thanks..

[cindi]

Valium is a benzodiazapene,  the withdrawals from this class of drug COLD TURKEY is very dangerous....SPOOK can help you with this better than I can but it is dangerous....Vicodin WD's are terribly uncomfortable but Valium can be deadly....cindi

[bizziebe]

Well I know from my sister-n-law that withdrwal's from Valium can be very dangerous. When she tried to quit cold turkey she had a nervous breakdown and the Doctor said she has to be slowly tapered off that she could not just quit like that. And that was after taking them for about five years 3x day @10 mg a tablet.Now I don't know much about Vicodin but I would seek the advice of my doctor before quiting..Bizz

[Nannoo]

I have withdrawn from Vicodin, and not a benzie, I'd hate to think that it could be worse than it was...but I suppose it could..

[Jay-Jay]

Well I would just like to say that actually I have been offered some valium... And I had the courage to say no due to the wisdom I have received at this site...  Actually after reading everything I realized that a few years back it wasn't a mental breakdown I was going through but withdrawl from about 25 Valium that I was given (taken over a course of time that is).  I never knew that it was but due to the people here on this forum talking truth it made my past make sense.  I only asked about the Valium and Vicodin thing because I have been through both myself and the withdrawl from Vicodin was more of physical pain and thinking back the Valium thing was more sycotic.  I was delusional and paranoid.  Just to think that only a hand full of valium could do such a thing.  Vicodin in my experience could have been a more gental withdrawl have I had known that I couldn't just quit cold turkey and cut myself down.  Thinking back on the valium I really didn't take that much for very long and now realize that that was a dangerous thing to do...  Again I am glad I had this site to go to, to get wisdom because I may have taken the valium this person offered me and freaked out once again... Thanks all and keep posting and informing people of the dangers... Talk to you later, from a person real happy to have the wisdom of valium withdrawls and the courage to say NO this evening..

:o)

[Gene to Joanne]

I am real glad that you made the decision to turn down the valium.  That took a lot of guts & self control to do!

I used to get bottles of 100 10mg tablets of Valium plus 3 refills from my former doctor!  I used them to reduce my anxiety when snorting cocaine.  Without the valium, I could not do the coke.  Weird way to use Valium since I did not need it if I wasn't doing Coke.  Eventually I stopped doing Coke & found my need for Valium diminishing.

I had no idea about the dangers of stopping Valium use, especially such a high dose - 50 to 100mg many days.  I never suffered any withdrawal from the Valium but I did drop down to 5mg a day over a number of years.  I was VERY lucky I guess!

Turns out the doctor who was nice enough to prescribe so many V's to me had an alcohol problem & got very sick & died at age 53.  He was an excellent doctor but everyone in his office kept things going while he drank himself to death.

I eventually discovered painkillers after a back injury & found my new drug of choice.  Last July I went to an inpatient detox facility to get sober.  I could not stop taking them myself & trying to detox at home was impossibly painful.  So the farther away you can keep yourself away from Valium & opiates, the better off you'll be.  They are a one way street to hell!

Good luck Jay-Jay.

Gene

[shane]

Hello Gene, I read your forome reply and it sounded very helpful. I was wondering if you are still off the painkillers? How maney were you taking? I went to inpatient detox also, one month ago and I am very discouraged to find I am very depressed and feeling as though I am wearing out. I keep thinking that Being on the pill was better than constant depression and hopelesnes! I was taking 80 mg of hydro a day. This really sucks. I just feel if I could take a couple Norco, I could at least have a few hours of relief. Thank for any help you can give. I'm glad for you that you doing well.  Shane

[jennyfla]

Shane, are you taking any antidepressants.  I know when my husband came out of rehab 2-years ago, he was on antidepressants for his depression.  Actually, he is still on them, although using again.
I think they are very important especially if it was depression that got you into your drug use in the first place.  The most common causes of drug use, i believe, are depression and anxiety.  They say, after a while, when you brain has the chance to recover from the drug use, it will start making the "happy" chemicals again, and you will start to feel better.
Some info on this forum about the use of an amino acid called L-Tyrosine is extremely interesting.  It is an amino acid that works with the part of the brain that controls moods, and feelings.  You can read a much more scientific explanation of what this amino acid does within Q's in this forum.
Good luck, and now that it will get better.  Have you tried meetings?  Support is a must in getting through the recovery process!
Good luck!!!!
Lv Jenny

[shane]

Thanks so much for your reply Jenny. I have been taking ssri's and busbar for depresion and anxiety for several years now. I agree that these things often lead to addiction.I've always self medicated with one thing or another. But when I found this (hydrocodone) Helped so much with all these things I just could't put it down! It's hard to get over the fact that somthing that helps me function and relieves these symtoms is worse than being on med's that don't really help much. Very frustrating!! I'am now just starting to look at treatment for bi-polar. It sounds like much of what I'm dealing with. Extreme high's and low's. I've lost faith though after going through the intire prosess of ADHD treatment to no avail, I wonder If this is just the latest medical insurance sale's job. Sorry to ramble, Bless You Alway's.  Shane

[jennyfla]

All i can say is "hang in there".  There are some wonderful people on this forum who have managed to kick this awful addiction and are in recovery.  I am not, so i feel it difficult to give you good advance, as i would feel like a hypocriate (sorry, horrible speller).
I know that i am in hell here while using these drugs, it has to be better on the other side, and it WILL get better for you.  I was pregnant last year and was alcohol and drug-free during that time, and felt fantastic.  I am so sorry that I feel back into this addictive life, i was fore-warned, and didn't take the advice.  I had a hole to fill, and i filled it alright!!!!  It's getting to the point now, where it is robbing me of too many things in my life; all feelings so far, but i know it will get much much worse.
Hang strong, and be patient, you will feel better.  Don't let the drugs win!
Lv Jenny

[shane]

Hello Jenny, I appreciate your words of encouragement.It means a lot to me at this time. I far from think of you as a hipocryte(?) me too, but as someone who unfortionatly has experiance with this terrible addiction and the compassion to try and help others. I know in my mind everything you say is so true and yet I still try to find justification to pick it up again. What a cruel paradox. Thanks so much for the help. I hope and pray you find you way out. LV Shane

[Gene to Joanne]

Thanks for the nice words.  Hang in there Shane, it WILL get better.  It was a least 4 weeks before I started to come back to life after my detox.

Unfortunately, I am using again.  My chronic headaches came back the minute I stopped using Oxycontin.   I lasted 3 months until I got a few Perc's & took them to see if they would help my headaches.  They did!!  I got some more & some more & then graduated back to Oxycontin, my favorite drug!

I had learned to take Oxycontin nasally when I first tried that drug.  Having done Cocaine in the early 80's, I was familiar with the skills of snorting drugs.  I easily started snorting Oxycontin & continue to do that today.  When you ingest it nasally, you get the full effect of the opiate instead of only 30% when swallowing it whole.  That makes the withdrawal sooo much harder.

I have managed to hide my usage for the past 7 months however, I have spent tens of thousands of dollars that I don't really have.  (credit card cash advances, credit lines, savings accounts)  You can easily see how strong this addiction really is & to what lengths I will go to to avoid withdrawal.  I want to stop really badly but I don't want to do another inpatient stint.

So I keep planning to start my taper tomorrow & to tell my wife the truth next week.  I need all the hope & help in the world!

Gene

[jennyfla]

Good luck Gene, you CAN do it!!!!
Pull out the big guns, and use everything and anything you can to beat this.  Go to meetings, get a sponser, go to counseling.  If you really want it, you can beat it!  Tell you wife, she can support you and help you get to where you want to be.
We filed bankruptcy 1.5 years ago, and it was an awful feeling.  We went from A+ credit to ****! Addiction is very strong, but if you want to beat it bad enough, you can!
Much luck with your tapering, i truly hope it works for you!
Jenny

[Jay-Jay]

Hey everyone... thought you may enjoy this... It gives me strength and acts as a reminder at time when the urge to relapse comes on...

One night I had a wondrous dream, A set of prints on the sand was seen, The footprints of my precious Lord, Yet mine were not along the shore.  But then a stranger print appeared, I asked the Lord, "What have we here?" This print is large and round and neat, But Lord it's just too big for feet."  "My child," He said in somber tones, "For miles I carried you alone, I challenged you to seek My face, Take up your cross and walk in grace." "You disobeyed, you would not grow.  You would not stand against the flow.  Your neck was stiff, your ears were shut, So there I dropped you on your butt," "Because in life there comes a time, When one must fight, when one must climb, When one must rise and take a stand, Or leave one's butt-print in the sand."

-Anonymous

Have a good evening all... 8o)

[Gene to Joanne]

Thanks for the encouragement, Jenny.  My wife was real supportive  when I detoxed the first time but she told me she would not stand for a relapse & would boot me out if I did so.  I think she might support me this time except for the fact that I put us about $40,000 in debt just in the past 7 months.  I still can't believe I spent that much money.  I think I deserve to be thrown out for what I did.

So I'll see what she does when I tell her the truth.  Whatever happens, happens.  I accept my fate with the family.  I will also get sober, that much I know for sure!

Thanks again,

Gene

[Gene to Joanne]

Wow!  what a typo!  Make that Jennyfla, not Jennyflbba!!

Sorry Jenny,

Gene

[Thomas]

Speaking as someone who was addicted to both Vicodin and various benzos, including Valium, for more than 10 years running, withdrawal from high doses of Valium or other benzos like Xanax or Klonopin is much, much worse, even life-threatening than Vicodin. Acute withdrawal from a benzodiazepine (valium, etc.) class drug can cause "petit mal" or "absence" seizures. It starts when you discontinue the benzo, which causes tension to build up in the shoulders, arms and causes tingling in the hands (consider these the warning signs of an impending benzo seizure) over the next few days, it culminates in a seizure, in which you instantly lose consciousness for several minutes, bite your tongue (hopefully not swallowing it at the same time). I know because I've been on Xanax for several years and am now trying to get off of it. My doctor never bothered to warn me about benzo-withdrawal seizures. I didn't discover them until I had one while waiting in the pharmacy for a refill(!). I have tried two more times to get off of the Xanax, but each time used my supply too quickly and wound up in seizure again. In fact, the last seizure I had was last night! Although after a brief period of mental "fuzziness" or vagueness about common pieces of information, I recovered, as far as I can tell, completely. I'm a technical writer for the software industry and I haven't noticed any loss of memory where my job is concerned.

Here's the scary thing about yesterday in particular: I had the seizure at work in front of my co-workers (they were very supportive and even paid my medical bills). But the point is, I was within 15 minutes of getting  behind the wheel of my car and heading down the Coast Highway at 60 MPH. Imagine the possible outcomes if I had had that seizure while driving? Forget myself - imagine killing one or two innocent people, or putting someone in a wheelchair with permanent brain damage? Could you live with that? I'm not sure I could.

As far as Vicodin goes, vic withdrawal is like a bad intestinal flu: fever, cold sweats, diaharea, limb cramps, insomnia, anorexia, craving for vics. You can combat the symptoms rather effectively thus:
1. (if you're not trying to get off of Valium), use enough Valium in the first few days to make you mostly sleep through the first few (worst days), then taper the dose down to nothing over the next week or less. The Valium will also make you eat like a pig, which will be therapeutic in itself.
2. Take lots of hot baths or Jacuzzis, as many as you can stand.
3. Buy ahead of time name-brand Imodium (immodium) and take the full dose (two) at every hint of the runs, no mater how slight.
4. Get some potent multi-vitamins and take them every day.
5. Get some L-Tyrosine and B6 caps at the health food store. In the morning, on an empty stomach, take 4-thousand (4000) mgs - eight 500mg. caps -  of L-tyrosine plus 200 mg of B6. Don't eat anything for an hour or so. This will help your brain replenish its own stores of vital neurotransmitters dompamine and norepinephrin - two vital brain substances depleted by chronic use of narcotics. Use the L-Tyrosine and B6 like this every other day for about 6 months, than quit for a while, or you can develop a tolerance.
6. Force yourself to do some exercise (you won't want to). At least walk around the block a couple times a day, or swim in a pool if you have one.  Good luck!

[Wizard]

Tom,  I just read your story and it's like looking on a mirror.......I would like to hear more about using L-Tyrosine and vitamin B6 for kicking YEARS of vic, perc, oxycontin dependance.  I started from a back injury and went to hell from there.......(as you most know)...I want out of this bottemless pit.....I'm trying to do this at home on my own...so much at risk.  Will take any hepful suggestions.......
Thank you in advanced,
Wizard

[Wizard]

Thomas, I think I responded to Tom and I now see that there is a Tom online..I was directing my questions to Thomas who was responding to Jay Jay I believe.........I'll take help from anybody though......
Bless you ALL,
Wizard

[Thomas]

What I know about L-Tyrosine (and B6) comes from spook in Australia, as well as from my personal experience using the combo to recover from primarily vicodin use. It goes like this:

Opiates and opioid drugs like vicodin, morphine, oxy, etc., are mistaken by the human brain for endorphins. Because the brain is always trying to keep its chemical soup in balance, the brain compensates for the continual presence of artificial endorphins by reducing or curtailing its own production of natural endorphins. This is why you feel so terrible when you try to kick narcotics. Your brain is reacting to the lack of endorphins, artificial or otherwise.

L-Tyrosine (with B6 to aid in its absorption) provides the recovering opiate addict's brain with the "raw material" it needs to create natural endorphins (exercise helps, too, of course). If you're like me, part of the withdrawal experience is just feeling mentally dead, listless, achy and depressed. The L-Tyrosine and B6 will help you recover your stores of dopamine and norepinephrin. The dopamine is responsible for your overall sense of well-being and your ability to experience pleasure. The norepinephrin will restore your mood, memory, mental energy, ambition and overall alertness. If taken per my instructions in the other post, you'll feel the difference with the very first dose. One suggestion, don't drink any coffee at or near the time you take the L-Tyrosine (you won't need it). They sell this stuff at health food stores for about $16 per bottle of 50 500mg capsules. I know 4000 mg sounds like a lot, but, according to spook, that's the dose necessary to realize results (that and 200 mg of B6 and lots of water). They say to take it on an empty stomach. About the only time my stomach is empty is in the morning, although some people take it at bedtime.

If you're withdrawing from the narcs, give the combo a try. What have you got to lose? Good luck.

Thomas

[Wizard]

Thank You so much for the info...............I'm hitting 36 hours right now and feel like.........well you know..........I have to make it this time, and I will!!!!I'll keep checking in.........
Thanks to you and all of the rest for sharing the info and support..
Wizard

[Wizard]

Hey all! Just wanted to say I tried Thomas's above remedy and I'm now into about 48 hours.  I think it is helping..Either that or just the mental suggestion that it will work is working. :-)
Definantly have some Imodium (immodium) on hand.  I think that was the worst part yesterday...We'll see how today goes......reading about all of you sure makes me feel so not alone....I wish I had more computer time, but then I would probably ramble on anyway to keep my mind sharp....Well, thanks again and peace to all of you...
God help us,
Wizard

[adrian]

hey everyone. would someone explain duragesic (fentenyl). i am currently on 200ug/h every three days. how hard is this to come off of? i have been down the oxy. road, i was snorting 480mgs a day,+ taking dextermathorphan i did this approx. 1 year. i had to go to detox for this it nearly killed me. i am on the patch for a crushed heel that can not be repaired. the patch is good for now, because i tend not to abuse it like i did the oxy, would someone please comment about this issue.i am trying to research duragesic, sounds to me like it may be bad also. however i am NOT

[Wife§Child]

I have just learned that my husband is addicted to Darvon and Oxy.  I have found large amounts of both at our home.  He left myself and our two year old and entered a re-hab program somewhere but I am unsure where (his parents will not tell me).  I am curious to those who have experience with these drugs-  how much do they cost- I found 40mg oxy and standard capsul Darvon. He has caused us so much debt and taken every bit of cash from out bank account over the last six months.  he took (a friend told me) 10-15 Darvons at a time orally and I believe he was snorting since I found a straw.  For all those afraid to tell their wifes/families, I would suggest to do so as the carnage seems to only worsen.  
Thank you

Sad Wife & Child

[Thomas]

as someone who has been addicted to both, it's the oxy that's bankrupted you. Yeah, darvon would cost in terms of paying for the office visits to get te scripts. And the straw was for the oxy. I've ried snorting darvon and one) it burned like hell and two) didn't penetrate my nasal membrane so far as I could tell. Yeah, 10 to 15 darvon is a lot but not impossible. I used ten in my recent past. But it's the oxy that is really costing you and is by far the harder of the two to get off of. My guess is, he only uses the darvon when he can't get the oxy. He did the right thing to go into rehab. I'd applaud him for that, wherever he is.

[Wife§Child]

Thanks for your reply.  He is getting both the drugs in Mexico since we only live an hour away.  How much do these Oxy's cost vs. Darvon.  He has not been getting them through traditional US Doctors RX.  In your opinion- I believe it started with Darvon and increased to Oxy- this has been going on for about 8 months and the Oxy probably within the last 4 months.  He has never abused drugs or alchohol in the past but has become depressed due  to a medical problem (cyst on his pituatiry gland causing hormonal abnormalities) and lack of energy - overall depression. He has been hiding his drug use under the medical excuse since hormone problems have overlapping symptoms.

Do you think Oxy can be beat?  I am so sad that I have lost my husband to such evil and have a hard time relating to drug addition not being an addict myself.  

Another question- What are the symptoms of how you feel/act using Darvon, also using Oxy.  His actions were confusing since they seemed as if he was on coke- but he also had opiates signs
(small pupils, sweating, etc.)  Please be candid I am trying to figure an accurate start date of his drug use so I can look back on what may have triggered the use in an effort to eventually put the puzzle back together.

Cyndie mother of Gavin 2 years old.

[Wizard]

Thomas is right about the oxy being the one to take him down. If
he is in rehab at least he's taken a right step.....as long as it was his choice.  If not sometimes it's just another escape.  He's got to WANT to do it. What's up with the parents not telling you where he is?  He needs some support.  I know this because I'm into my 4th day clean after 10 years of prescription abuse started with a back injury, and doing it by myself. Thanks to Thomas and this site I'm making it. As far as trying to determine when he started, Look back for signs of going to hiding places for his stash when he went to use. When ased what are doing usually the answer is "Nothing" why? Within an hour usually a complete change in mood and/or action...maybe very content for awhile....I don't mean to ramble on here but hang in there keep hope and faith that all will be well..do NOT despair.
I'm seeing a little light at the end of my LONG tunnel now and I'm Actually starting to get exited about it.....
Peace and God be with you and your family,
Wizard

[Wizard]

Thomas, sorry if I've seemed to latch onto you but I wanted you to know that your recipe seems to Really be helping keep the Dragons down to a tolarable level.  Thanks again,
Peace & Light 2 U!!
Wizard

[Thomas]

that's what I'm here for, man. you're quite welcome. If I can give anyone the benefit of my experience, I'm only too glad to ...  Keep up with the L-Tyrosine/B6. They say lots of whole eggs help the body replenish certain things it needs. As you get a little more clean time, if possible, find some aerobic exercise to get into -- that will stimulate the endorphins and help you get rid of all that spare nervous energy. I also find cooking up a huge batch of pasta and just gorging on it helps my mood, too. There's actually some mood-elevating property to pasta, believe it or not! Hang in there, Wizard. If you don't make it this time, don't be down on yourself. These are very tough drugs to get off of and stay off of. Good luck to you.

[Angelica]

Petie,  You didn't mention where you are getting the Oxy from.  If you are seeing a pain specialist, tell him you feel that the medication isn't required any longer.  These doctors are trained in this area, as opposed to a primary/general practitioner.  He/she will taper the meds down, untill you are off.  There are other medications to help w/ the withdrawal symtoms.  Whether or not 4/80mg oxys is a lot, well I can't tell you that for sure, but I know your steadily going up, and will probably increase because you are chasing a high, and this will require more,and more, and more.  Now is the time to do something.  As for your pain....maybe once your off of the oxys, your doctor can give you darvocet/darvon.  I've taken this in the past.  I will tell you this....once your branded an addict(if your not seeing a pain specialist) you will have a very hard time getting adequate relief.  It's your choice....you KNOW what needs to be done.
CIN:
Hey dear! lol  I've been popping in and out, not posting, untill I stumbled across this thread of replies.  I couldn't pass it up!.....I'll email you soon.  I never did tell you how my dr's appt. went....w/ all the chaos....here  last week. REM?  I fill you in soon.  LOVE YA!

[Angelica]

Correction or clarification rather.  I said it all comes down to  pain vs. addiction.......What I meant by addiction is dependence from a pain pt's stance.  Do you know the difference?  There is a difference.  I'm getting "addiction" in the typical sense, from your situation.  If someone is in constant pain, and there quality of life goes down, then no choice needs to be made.  If the chronic painer can find an educated phys., pain medication is clearly the route one must take.  I wasn't given this info. for years, and was told that pain medication wouldn't guide my life.

[cindi]

Hey  ya'll  LOL  My God I've missed seeing yiu,,i was starting to get a little lonely,, My sidekicks were gone  LOL  Love ya right back,,,I'm glad things are working out for you....Love cin

[pelle1985]

Pardon me for butting in here, too, but. . .along the lines of Cindi's pharmacy question earlier (that is, what to do if they refuse to fill a scrip?), with this thread another question comes to my addict's mind.  Cindi, you state that once one is branded an addict, it is virtually impossible to get the medication one needs. . .maybe I was just the biggest and best scam artist of all time (which I sincerely doubt), but I *never* found it difficult to get a doctor to prescribe me anything I wanted.  I'm not talking Dr. Feelgoods, either, or scrip mill workers whom you would pay to write for you. . .I mean real, legitimate (if naive) physicians.  I can't possibly be the only person who has been this good (well -- bad, actually).  Understand that I am in no way advocating you or anyone to lie and deceive doctors to get drugs -- I just find it kind of confusing that it should be so easy for addicts to get what they want and so difficult for those with legitimate physical reasons.  Hope I haven't upset you or anyone here, I'm just genuinely curious.  While I'm at it, is there anyone out there who found most physicians so easily manipulated and who shares my confusion about this issue?  By the way, Angelica, I am glad that you have found a med that truly works for you.  Oxy can be a lifesaver when administered and taken properly, but a double-edged sword that has and will kill many, many people when carelessly administered and abused.

Peace,
Pelle

[Wizard]

Thank you again for the encouragement! I feel like I know some of you more and more each day. Today is day # 5 for me cold turkey.Without having this forum to come to, I don't think I could have done it.The support I've received from you Thomas, andby reading each of the others stories has given me the courage to continue this battle. I see a little of myself in each of you. Today I gained the courage to be honest and tell my wife of 27 years the truth about my addiction to opiates.  It was the hardest thing that I have ever had to tell anyone.after the shock was over, she told me that she loved me and would stand by me through this. I can tell you all that for me, that was the biggest weight off my shoulders. With that hurdle crossed and the support of this group I WILL MAKE IT! Like many of you, I'm a 47 year old executive father of 2 girls with everything to live for. This happens to the best of us and I thought I was alone. Now I know better. Growing up in the 60's and 70's I've been chasing the "Dragon" for a long time and have somehow been able to keep it secret. Ironically my mother-in-law and my oldest daughter who still lives at home are drug abuse counselers and do not know! What a laugh huh? Amazing webs we users spin! I don't mean to ramble on here but tnow is the best I've felt spiritually in years and I have to unload. Even with the W.D.s as bad as it's been, I see a great light at the end of this. I hope you all will accept me into your group of hope so that by helping me I may also help someone else along the way.
So you all know what I'm was doing up until last week, I'd start my morning with 3 percs, 8 vic-es and 3 somas. that would get me through till around 1 P.M. when I would take 80mg oxycontin. That was my routine for the last few years.  Well, that was then and this is now.........you've all seen and heard it before.
Thomas, I know this was long, but i needed to say it. Your advice is working. I know relapse is a very strong possibility but I can't worry about that now. At least now I know where to come too.
God Bless all of you,
Wizard

[shane]

Wizard,I read your post and know right where your at.I am 48 and have been using one thing or another since I was 12yrs old. We used to steel beer from back porches before dances,and after that it was one drug or another for 35 yrs now. I became addicted to hydrocodone two yrs ago and it was the hardest thing I have ever tried to put down. It just made life bearable to me. I have been married 22 yrs and have a wonderful 21yr old son. But the drugs came first. Odly, they think I'm a great father and husband. I think not.I have been clean for 5 weeks now this coming sunday and by far the hardest part has been physcological. I get depressed or low in self esteem and I just can't stop thinking how vicoden will help ease the pain.(LIE).Anyway, you seem to be very confirmed it your decision not to do this drug again. Hold strong to that conviction! It WILL help to get you through, And please know that it can be done. There are maney on this forome who are proof of that.We have to relearn how to live life without the use of substaneces for recreation and relief of pain. This is most difficult for me. I feel lost at times. I;m rambling now but I pray this brought you some hope and strenth. Stay with It and God bless you.  Shane

[Wizard]

Shane bless you for your support and response.........It came at the most needed time. At 6 days now the "Dragons Lie" was whispering softly in my ear. Turning on this P.C. and seeing your response to me SHUT THE ******* UP!!!!!!!!!!!
Divine Providence Maybe? Never worry about rambling on as I think we do at times........if it makes it easier, then ramble on anytime to me BROTHER! you say they think you are a good husband and father. You think not.......hmmmmmmmm........I think so.......or you would not be here trying.......I envy you in the sense that you have pulled off keeping their respect and honor.
In my case they just thought that sometimes I was a MAJOR *******. They just didn't know why. Thank GOD I still have them and with my wife's support and you all to turn to in weak "Dragon" moments, I WILL survive..I say SO WILL YOU! I don't know where you are but for me my day is just starting so I say to all of you great people out there: Have a better day then yesterday as I see the light ahead........
Peace, Power, Magick and God's Love to you all......
Shane, I'll be thinking of you today,
Wizard

[shane]

Wiz, Thanks for the kind words.It really means alot to me that I could help in some small way with our mutual problem.If ever you feel down and think you are weakening, Please Post on this thread and i'll get back to you asap. I know it was sometimes just words that got me through when I truly felt I was going to fall! Another x addict told me two things thst really stuck with me, I hope you can use them also. one is that after one or two good high's after starting back, you are right back to chasing it.It never stay's there for you and yet we try to convince ourself's otherrwise. two, your going to have to go through this withdrawal all over again,and it WILL be worse next time. That's a fact. Also, my wife was very supportive through all this, but like yours, can never really understand why! know one can know unless they were there. This causes alot of tension I know. But you must be aware of your needs now. They will tell you at any NA or counsiling that This is the one time in life you really need to be selfish; To get through this thing so you can be there(really be there), For those who need you. I'll think of you also today,and I hope it is good to you. Take care and keep Posting.  Shane

[shane]

Wiz, Thanks for the kind words.It really means alot to me that I could help in some small way with our mutual problem.If ever you feel down and think you are weakening, Please Post on this thread and i'll get back to you asap. I know it was sometimes just words that got me through when I truly felt I was going to fall! Another x addict told me two things thst really stuck with me, I hope you can use them also. one is that after one or two good high's after starting back, you are right back to chasing it.It never stay's there for you and yet we try to convince ourself's otherrwise. two, your going to have to go through this withdrawal all over again,and it WILL be worse next time. That's a fact. Also, my wife was very supportive through all this, but like yours, can never really understand why! know one can know unless they were there. This causes alot of tension I know. But you must be aware of your needs now. They will tell you at any NA or counsiling that This is the one time in life you really need to be selfish; To get through this thing so you can be there(really be there), For those who need you. I'll think of you also today,and I hope it is good to you. Take care and keep Posting.  Shane

[petie]

hey wiz

i am a 46 year old exec w/ 2 kids and i have been on and off drugs and alcohol since i was 16...30 years there eh ??
had a 13 year period there of sobriety and lesser periods in and out....
currently i have been using oxys for almost a year now. chronic neck pain i got from liftting weights
I have had 3 outpatient surgeries,but it has not gotten rid of the pain...
my doc has me on 4 80mg oxys per day and 8 oxyIR 5 mil for break through.....i am addicted and i wanna get off....
been seeing a lot of negitive footage on tv lately...anybody else ???
does anybody else use this much oxy everyday...day in/day out.i always run short and half to ration myself....do not like to wd...is this a lot of oxy???
Thanks
petie

[Wizard]

I hope you meant four 80ms of oxy instead of 480mgs!
But then it never ceases to amaze me at how much opiate when put into our selves after time and still function..Preparing for back surgery years ago I told my neuro-surgeon I was taking 8 vicodin es'..... He looke shocked and exclaimed to me "8 A DAY!"
You're gonna need to detox!"  I said no Doc...8 at a time 4 times a day...he got all gray looking and almost fell over...anyway, I think you should look at some of Thomas' comments to me in the above strings for the recipe on using L-Tyrosine and Vitimin B-6 that he got from Spook. I'm into day six and it seems to be helping...I went to my Dr. 2 months ago and told him my problem and that I wanted to kick. He said he'd help me wean off, so we were into week 2 when I got an urgent phone call from him to come to his office. I show up and he's all in a tiiter because he went to a seminar put on by a Dr. who got busted by the Fed's for helping his patients wean off. They said it was mandatory to turn them over to rehab places. he got all freaked out so I told him screw it I'll do it my self thanks for nothing...at least he gave me some Ativan for the anxiety...
the rest is history...I have seen all the press lately..goes to show you we are not alone.....Maybe somebody else here with more knowledge can help answer your dose questions.... PLEASE DO HANG IN THERE!!!!!! I know everyone on this site Cares for ya!
Peace, Power and Magick to,
God Bless you,
Wiz

[Angelica]

I have just been put on oxys' after 8 years of no relief.  I have finally found a doctor to prescribe pain meds.  They sat on my medicine shelf for 2 days.  I was very reluctant to take them.  My dosage, is 1 20mg 2 x a day.  Vicodin for breakthrough pain.  I have never had a problem taking my medication.  Now that I've found a doctor to prescribe it regularly....we'll see.
When first offered the oxy...I told my doctor that I wouldnt dare take that stuff.  He asked me if I could get over my social anxieties, and focus on my pain for minute.....lol  After assuring me that this medication was made for long-term use, and he would monitor me on them, I aggreed to take it.  Everyone here knows me, and my story......I have just won a long battle.  I am able to clean my home, work, take care of my children....etc etc...I have my life back.  I just have to ask you one question?  can you live w/ the pain, and will it progress?  Many pain pt's come here, fearing addiction, but forgetting what it's like to have no meds, and to live in constant debilitating pain.  As Brighty once said: "you are an involuntary addict."  In no way did I ask to be in this situation, and it all comes down to Pain vs. addiction?  Only you can make that decision.  Best wishes!

[petie]

Wow

Thanks for the quick feedback

Hope to hear more
Just chopped on an 80 mil
wish i could stop

see ya
petie

[cindi]

I was just reading the posts re: oxys'   Angelica, you are too funny,,, I do know how you are with meds, totally unlike me  LOL   anyway, I had a long discussion with my dr. yesterday re: long term use of pain meds and I know she would have been more than willing to prescribe me Oxy's had I asked for them....we talked about a friend of hers that was taking oxy's long term for severe pain and she has asked the same question that alot of us here have asked.....why, if the medication is helping us to be a productive member of society, able to function as normal human beings and have greatly improved the quality of life,  why would we want to get off of them,  even though I am an addict, I truly believe in the use of narcotic pain medicine..It was invented for a reason...As a Nurse I know the benefits fo narcotics, as an addict I see the down side but i think we are all in agreement that there is a very definate difference between abuse/addiction and dependance....and any given person taking a given pain med(and some meds that are not for pain control)on a long term basis will develop a dependance...that is just how it is....so, just out of curiosity I did ask my doc what she would do if the patient becomes dependant on medication...does she cut him off?  her answer to my amazement was no  "I would wean them off the med  no big deal" but back tothe question, why would you want to be off the med if it is helping?  this is the question we need to ask ourselves....Hey angelica,,,,where the heck have ya been  no e-mails for a few days.....and I'm glad you are finally getting the one med that may help you hon.I know the pain you have been in....and please, don't be afraid to tak it,,,I think maybe oxy's have been getting a bad rap,because they are wonderful for pain control  but we just need to be cautious and tread lightly as with any opiate...and the only reason  didn't ask her for oxy's was because the medication I take now is effective for my pain control....but just as I mentioned above because of my history of addiction (not dependance) i always have to be careful and tread lightly    love cin

[Wizard]

Cin, you are so very right in what you say...sorry to butt in here but I'm closing day 6 and it's getting a teeny rough for a moment came back here for some encouragement and as always am getting it.
I need a little morbid humor here, so here goes: true story too! When my father (God rest his soul) was on his death bed at home in a coma hospice was helping us with him ease his pain with morphine, all my mother could worry about was that he was going to get ADDICTED! Is that a hoot! Hell, I told her the only way anyone is addicted is if they run out of the MEDS!!! GEEZE that pissed me off! That's what society has put on us to believe! Anyway, He died in PEACE thank God and hospice for the morphine.
As I said  Cin, I'm sorry to break in I just needed to blow that steam... I feel better now and put the "Dragon" at Bay again....
Peace, Power and Magick to you all
God help and bess us,
Wizard

[cindi]

Please, don't ever feel as though you are breaking in,,,sometimes we have to say something at a certain time and this site does not always allow room for another question...Your input is appreciated and God rest their souls.....love to all   cin

[Angelica]

......With all do respect, I think I am the one who stated once branded and addict, one may find it hard to be treated for pain.
Just ask some here....this has been stated on this forum, many times.
Well, let me introduce myself, as one who came to this board thinking there was something wrong w/ me, for wanting meds, because I needed them, not wanted them.  I received a world of support here, and was able to clarify what an addict truly was.  Through-out my research, I've come to realize that some states are not prescribing,and some are.......those are the states that have pioneered pain mngmt....in the contemporary sense. You may have found it easy to recieve pain medication, but there are those who were made to feel like "drug-seekers" merely for wanted a normal life!  This all because doctors fear loosing their licenses.  Evedently you do not live in one of these states, or you just had the luck of the draw.  I can recall several people posting here, over concerns of taking....oh what..one darvocet a day!  Come-on.  This is definately an issue that bares both sides being touched on.  I'm here, to do just that. I can recall many who would support me in this point of view: Pixie, Andy(where are you?)Oxydaddy, Kerri, and the list goes on.  As a friend of mine put it, we are involuntary addicts....not by choice, that is; nevertheless, we are addicts.  Let our voices be heard!  We need better standards in the legalities of pain treatment...Right now, this very moment...the DEA, FDA, medical boards, etc....are trying to pass a law to allow ONLY Pain specialist to prescribe Oxycontin.......These professionals will be able to distinguish between a drug seeker, and a true chronic pain pt.  General practitioners or primary care doctors tend to be less educated on these matters....but then again, I wasn't able to get relief for 8 years.....untill now, so maybe I am the minority, here????
I can recall limping into a so called top knee surgeons ofc...and limping right out w/ no pain medication to boot. Went home to suffer it out, only to find out, post ER visit, that I had severe problems.  Easy for me, I think not.  I could tell you stories, and I've stated them here many times.  Invasive procedures done w/ no local.  Etc etc etc.  Sent home after a recent surgury...passing out, vomiting, for 3 whole days from severe pain....only given 5mg. of hydrocodone.  If anything, maybe I can inform people, vividly, such as yourself, who suffers, when pain medication is abused....The chronic pain pt. does.  ME!

[pelle1985]

Thank you for the clarification.  The only thing that I feel I need to add here is that the chronic pain patient is by no means the only one who suffers from the behavior of addicts.  The suffering of addiction is its own hell -- which, like chronic pain, just does not translate at all unless one has personally experienced it.  Active addicts in the grip of their disease have no more control over their addictive behaviors than people in chronic pain have over their illnesses.  I would never say that the hell of my addiction is greater or less than the hell of your physical pain.  I understand your frustration with the results of addiction making it harder for those of you with legitimate needs to acquire the medications you need, but please don't feel for a moment that we as addicts had any more choice in the matter than persons with physical problems.  Perhaps this was not your intent, but it is what I gathered from the tone of your post.  I am certainly not trying to start an argument here -- that's not what this forum is for and most emphatically *not* what I am about as a person, at all.  Perhaps, only four months-plus out of the despair and torture of my own addiction, my nerves are just too sensitive to the topic.  

Peace,
Pelle

[susanlea]

regarding your comment on the TV coverage regarding Oxy'x.  I live just outside Washington D.C.. Lately that's all thats been on the news.  Apparently in, and all around D.C., Northern Virginia and Maryland, there have been approximately 30 some deaths in the last 18 monthes, overdoses of Oxy's. They are available everywhere, they have had several big busts in Prince William, and Spotsylvania Va. The Doctors up here in Prince William are well known for giving out pain meds. My former boyfriend was addicted to perc's and oxy's for over 2 years, had to go in to detox, relapsed and well you all know the story. His personal Dr. would give him 30 20mg oxys and 30 percocet 650's every 2 weeks for headachs. Now from what he told me is he told the Dr. he was scared of what he heard on TV(the Dr. hasn't guessed his Addiction) so now he's giving him 40 pills of Methadone every 2 weeks, no programs, sponsers, meetings, nothing. Now he's just replaced one pill for another. But my pharmacist told me the DEA is now tracking who gets the oxy's and what Dr.< how often and for what. Sounds to me things are going to change up here, since the pharmacy is now required (Big Chains) to notify the DEA. Newsweek had a cover story on this sometime in March. The pharmacist also told me that the insurance companies may not pay for the oxy's if they feel they're not warrented for the ailment, and they're very expensive almost $4 a pill.  I feel for those that need this medicine for quality of life, and who use it responsibly, I'll let you all know more when I find out.......Love you guys,  Susanlea....Hope everythings ok with Spooks sister...later

[cindi]

Beofre i was in treatment, i was sent involuntarily both because of the law, i had no trouble getting what i wanted from doc.  i really never had to ask much because I just helped myself to what I wanted...I had been on the local news about 3 times, made the paper and some other unwanted publicity so my name flew around town as the junkie nurse and most of the docs knew who I was...so i was not able to get much of anything.....the issues have died down however, a stipulation in my contract with the OHIO BOARD OF NURSING is such that when I find a Dr. to treat me he'she must be aware of my history as an impaired nurse....how's that for stigma?  LOL  it is different with my husband and some other poeple I know,  it is just me that is really branded here...Youngstown Ohio is a big city but, obviously, not big enough...this is why i said i have had a hard time with the docs..they know me....hope this has helped you a littl to understand my situation,,,,love to you   cindi

[Angelica]

I understand addiction.  I believe there has been more programs, and understanding about this disease than any other, but We can not prohibit medications that work, because they fall into the wrong hands.  Do you know the untold death rate of suicide due to chronic pain.  This will never be accounted for due to insurance purposes.  Jack Kavorkian wouldn't be known today, if people got adequate treatment.  I don't belittle addiction in any sense, afterall Look where I am right now, this very minute.  Nor, do I want to start an argument, but lets ask before we bash or accuse in any sense.  Education is the answer to all of these complex issues.  Education and understanding.  We do not live in a 3rd world country here.  There are answers. Lack of money, or the making of money, rather, impedes progress in this area.  Addiction in some aspects, from a gov't point of view is profitable.  I have to go now, but will chat soon.
Peace

[cindi]

ok  this is how i see it,,,,opiate medicine, a wonderful invention...we as addicts will abuse anything we can, and yes, i have to say that addicts can and do ruin things for poeple like my husband and annie and millions of other people that are chronic pain people..and I have ruined it for MYSELF...and yes addiction itself is a misery to live with..I am on both sides now,,i am an addict and a chronic pain person....oxycontin is a timed released OXYCODONE the ingredient found in percocet,,,whenever a new drug comes out and people go bonkers over it and people die form overdose etc..it makes the news.....here, in my area they are keeping tabs on who dies from oxyoverdose and how much they have taken and my friends, they have not od's on 40 or 80 mgs..they have died by chewing, snorting and/or shooting the drug in astronomical amounts..this is abuse,,,,i may be wrong but I have not heard much about any deaths (if any have ocurred) from a person in chronic pain taking a NORMAL dose of oxy via the NORMAL route which is by mouth...and yes, i do know that docs are terrible afraid to prescribe pain meds even in terminal cases..my mom would scream in pain before she died,,i have said in other posts that the docs that were treating her did notwant her to become addicted so they did not want to prescribe my dying mother with rib and vertebral fractures and countless other problems any pain med that she may get addicted to....this whole flippin country is too focused on things such as oxycontin, vicodin etc. to worry about the crack/cocaine/herion problem in this country?  the poverty, the abuse of children and our elderly, the ridiculous cost of medication that our sick, poor and elderly can't afford to pay for,,,**** i can go on all day but why bother...oxycontin if taken the right way is no more dangerous than taking percocet which in reality it is percocet in another form..of course then what isn't when we abuse it...did you know that it is much more likely to die from overdose of tylenol, but does the dea keep track of who bys tylenol?  sorry folks but the media is really making my blood pressure go up but guess what....my BP med is too expensive for me to afford when my husband is laid off from work...oh yeah and my BP med is mood altering,,makes me very tired and dizzy....bet the dea does not keep track of who buyin diovan though....so i agree with everything everyone is saying but my heart lies with angelica and those people that need the meds but because of me,,,cannot get them as readily....love to all cindi

[Wizard]

You GO GIRL! You go and tell em on the ******* mountain!
AMEN! Now you went and hit nail on the major BIG HEAD! The media and insurance companies ruin more lives then all the opium in the world!  And yes, they even told my pharmacy that my doc wasn't smart enough to prescribe me a frikken script of VIOX! They turned the script down and wouldn't pay for it! Why? Because it's a lousy $150.00 for a months worth  The pricks.......Hell, I couldn't even get a buzz on the **** anyway......I call down to the insurance co. to see who made

[Wizard]

Damn, got so excited I Posted before I was done sheesh!LOL
anyway I called down there and some idiot with no medical training makes the decision on what I need for my health.....
WHEW! Venting is GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!HA! Now I feel good again.
Hope all gets better for Cin.
Love the Wiz

[pelle1985]

Thanks for your response.  I don't have much time right now, but wanted to say that you and I are in agreement that education is the number one thing lacking across the board as far as the entire issue of medication and addiction.  It is not focused on at all as far as the medical community is concerned.  I also agree with you as far as the idea that addiction is big business for many people, including the drug companies, physicians, rehab facilities, the international crime community, and yes, our very own government with the DEA at the forefront.  Why, if addiction were wiped out (or drastically reduced) and pain patients treated appropriately and not as criminals, think of the money which would stop flowing, from the highest (no pun intended) worldwide government power brokers to the lowest gangstas.  As I stated in another post a month or so ago, addicts are an easily replacable resource -- as soon as one dies, at least five more are waiting to get in line.  Sorry to be so cynical, but it's just too obvious to ignore.  My prayers are with you in your journey to appropriate relief of your pain and the getting back of your life.

Peace,
Pelle

[Angelica]

I think we've just proven, that communication is the answer....he we are total flip-sides of a coin, gaining understanding.  Let me give you my brief, very brief history of Oxycontin.  After a long battle, in my state, to get adequate relief, I've found a physician.  He is a Harvard Medical graduate, w/ degrees in just about everything.  He raked me over the coals, almost made me cry, and thats not so easy to do.  He wanted to make sure I wasn't a drug-seeker....he asked me questions about my childhood, my parents, if I shot up.....if I was sexually abused, and on and on.  Then he looked at my records, xrays,and performed an exam, that in itself almost killed me.  
I was very frank w/ him from the start, and told him that I did not want Oxys!  He said that this medication was developed for long term use, and when taken correctly does wonders. He asked me if I could get over my social anxieties, because the media has blown this up into one big monster pill, w/o mentioning the countless people that have gotten thier lives back.  Well, I agreed to take it.  This medication sat on my shelf for days.  THen I decided to give it a try: NO BUZZ, no euphoria, and 4-6 hours of NO pain.  It was like a dream.  Now when this gets into the wrong hands, they tamper w/ it.  You know I can think of all the crazy laws we've come up w/ because certain things have gotten in the wrong hands.  Should we outlaw motorvehicles, because a drunk driver got behind the wheel???  Doesn't make sense, does it.
WIZ and CIN, you made very valid points, that I just don't even think I can add to.  The insurance co. is a whole other issue, and I could go on and on.
Pelle, hope this helped.  My intentions are only to inform, not cause problems, by any means.  Thanks for your time.

[cindi]

great information....i think everyone here has the right idea...and angelica is right..communication..(LOL  I almost wrote fornication LOL)don't even ask where my mind has been  LOL   actually I was thinking about the red hot chile peppers californication and don't ask me why....anyway, back to the post,,,pelle stated that education is a major issue and Wiz had a good valid point as far as the media and the insurance companies which I think we all are in agreement over....actually right now there is no point to my post...just to say hi and yes I am in a better mood than I was in earlier...and I think the 4 of us can kick some severe ass.....Love to all cin

[spook]

Take it easy with the Benzo withdrawal, I have had some `chats` with MD`s and one woman has permanent brain damage fron high dose abrupt withdrawal, just a warning, maybe they dissapear like the barbiturates soon?.(ask jimmy)
Mick jagger and his "Mothers little helper"(Valium) what has it become now????????

[spook]

see my post above to thomas and listen to the Dr.Those are the facts..

[cindi]

Thanks Luke,  as always,  you are appreciated    have a good one

[pelle1985]

Thanks again for everyone's input.  As Angelica says, we are all in some ways coming from different backgrounds and sides of the issue. . .and I am really pleased that even when our opinions differ, we can at least listen to and respect what our peers have to say.  One recovery slogan involves keeping an open mind, which to me is useful not only in recovery but in everyday life.  By the way, Angelica, I am very glad that you did not stay away from us -- I enjoy reading your posts and getting a viewpoint that I otherwise may never have seen, which ultimately helps my personal growth.  

Lastly, and on a lighter note -- Cindi, from your post referring to "Californication" (which is a great song, in my opinion) -- it's non necessary to ask where your mind is -- here's hoping the rest of you can follow it there!  In all seriousness, sex (like all powerful things, when used responsibly and safely) is perhaps the best drug that will ever exist. . .and it's only after I've been clean that I can truly appreciate it again.  I used to go through the whole act thinking, "Damn, I hope this is over soon so I can go get high."  Now, I look forward to what all men look forward to upon completion -- going to sleep!  :)

Peace (and love, of course)
Pelle

[cindi]

snore, snore   oops  sorry  I just woke up....LOL   (kidding)  been planting flowers and my herbs all day  (legal)  I agree with you so much about respecting what everyone has to say...whether we agree or not we can all agree to disagree?   I guess...man,,,sometimes I really confuse myself  LOL  I do also know what you mean about sex....and when we get clean and do it for the first time being clean  WOW, to me it was like really doing it for the FIRST time all over again...Born again Virgin...LOL  what a wonderful world we live in..ok back to respecting each others opinions.  as you said we are all so diverse... race, religion, sex (or sexless) sexual orientation or (asexual)  however, we all (most of us) have one thing in common and that is this lousy disease of addiction which does not discriminate...and we have to remember that unity is strong,,,we are better together...love to all    cindi
PS   I am 40...my husband is 33....7 YEARS YOUNGER let me ask you a question if it is not too personal....DOES A MAN STAY IN THE PRIME OF HIS LIFE FOREVER???   LOL?   this guy of mine is giving me a run for my money      LOL

[Angelica]

Thank you so much for the wonderful reply.  I sense a peace about you today.  I only wish you all the best, Pelle.  I wasn't going to post here anymore, but just couldn't read, w/o jumping right in.  I'm glad I did now.  I just can't get sooo involved  as before....I have to stay on top of things, in our business, I am depended upon a great deal.
Cin,
lmao at your post.  You always put a smile on my face,...And RE: your other post to me, I am not that young, although I always have to show my ID, and can't even get into a lounge w/o it.  My Rem: bro. and fly. are musicians......and I dare not go watch them w/o my ID. lmao  I wonder how long that will continue??? A good sign right.  I only hope I look as good as you do, at 40.  Sometimes I feel like an old woman. lol  I bet Pelle is thinking, and you rant and rave like one too.......lmao! YALL have a great Sunday.....you deserve it.  
Anngelica

[pelle1985]

Well, I am 33 myself -- I don't know if I feel in my "prime" anymore (that is, sex isn't my every waking thought now as it was then -- more like every other. . . :)  Seriously. . .the energies spent on 2 kids (one almost brand-new), job, housework, and life in general have helped me revise my opinion that "it" has to be done as often as possible.  I really feel now that quality is more important than quantity (although both are quite nice, time and energy permitting of course. . .)  And of course it is *completely* better off of drugs. . .and thanks to you, I now have Madonna's "Like A Virgin" in my head.  :)

Peace.
Pelle

[pelle1985]

No, you don't rant and rave like an old woman -- and believe me, I know, since I work with them on a daily basis (elderly/Alzheimer's patients primarily), some of whom are more than willing to kick my ass as I provide them care (and sometimes succeeding).

You mention looking as good as Cin at 40 -- it's too bad we don't have a way to see each other's pictures here.  I had that Ewan McGregor shot all ready to post, too, should anyone as about my looks (well, probably just my post-acute withdrawal acting up again, more likely -- or early-onset Alzheimer's).

Anyway -- til next time, take care and God bless.

Peace,
Pelle

[cindi]

Thank you for the compliment,,,actually I really don't feel 40   I can't,  I have 3 little kids   Oops  Sorry I mean 2 little kids and a husband that is 7 years younger than me......i CANNOT be 40 and really 40 is not bad...I cried on my birthday and my mom was laughing so hard at me she lost her breath god love her.. LOL  actually my husband is great and like Pelle said the energy etc. is focused on the kids,,so sex  LOL  sometimes is just a thought..LOL  which actually makes it better...and my dear Angellica,  you are beautiful..I have never seen your pic yet...(not fair I sent you mine  LOL)  but you have the personality of a saint...my gramma always told me  "cindi  pretty is as pretty does"   she was soo right.  i hope YALL have a great evening....love to all      cin

[cindi]

whops  i said something that didn't sound too good  I said sometimes sex is just a thought and that makes it better...I meant to say,,,,sometimes sex is just a thought and when we actually have the time and energy to do it is really great because we don't do it every other day anymore  LOL   WE GOT MARRIED    lol      love cin

[Charles]

I want to post this message about my husband, using the duragesic patch.  He has had 4 back surgeries in the past 5 years.  He had 5 ruptures, and a crack in his tailbone, the last surgery was a fusion.  My husband is not a drug abuser, he don't drink, use illegal drugs, all he ever has done that would be considered bad is using tobacco (copenhagen)  For the past years he has tried to control his pain with darvocets.  He has always taken them as prescribed.  About 7 months ago our physician thought maybe the duragesic patch would help.  So he started him out on 75 mg every three days, then he moved him up to 100 mg every three days.  Again my husband used the patches as prescribed.  Well, this last weekend, he started feeling out of control, so he took off the patch.  24 hours later, he was in withdrawl, and it has been terrible.  We went to the doctor, and he prescribed valium, again he is taking less then the prescribed amount, just to help with his anxiety.  We're into day 7, and he is a lot better.  After all this, my advice as to the duragesic patch, is not to use it.  Trust me, there is other ways.  My husband also has had three kidney stones, and he said he would rather go through another kidney stone episode, than go through this withdrawl again.  Hope this helps some of you folks out there, I don't want to see anyone go what we have in the last week!  Everyone take care!

[yankeefan]

Hi, I have been taking an average of 3-5    5mg  percs for the past 2 months because of kidney stone pain,now I have stopped clod turkey and haven't been feeling quite right.I'm feeling a little edgy with some slight depression and insomnia.No chills,cramps or diarihha.Was I doing enough to get withdrawl symptoms,because i didn't think I was.And IF I was,how long will this minor discomfort last.  Thank you everyone for your help

[Wizard]

The amount you were taking and for that short period is enough to cause some minor W.D.s... But from my experience they shouldn't last more than a week or two. if what you described is all you are having right now compared to the kidney stones you'll be okay! Good Luck and God Bless you.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wizard