ain't love grand? now about addiction...

[groovygirl]

I had to say something about the ongoing soap opera/love story that is unfolding here on the addiction forum.  Although it is nice, sweet etc etc etc, it IS another thing to sift through to get to the answers most of us are looking for.  I personally wouldn't want my love life discussed on an addiction forum, but I guess it's different strokes for different folks.

I have a question about addiction...What is in Ultram that makes it so addicting?  It isn't a narcotic...right?

[puma]

Sparkswife,

I am not sure if you are the same one, but I seem to remember your name from several years ago. I remember you getting flamed. Read on here, and get the laugh of a lifetime with these drunks and drug addicts like myself flaming away. It seems the more flaming time involved, the funnier and more ludicrous it gets. Have a good laugh.

Sorry I could not help back then but suggest alanon. Take care.

Charahan.....wildcat

[Sparkyswife]

Keep looking for a doctor who knows his left from his right.  Took my husband and I over 15 years to find one - head of neurosurgery at Froedtert Medical Center, part of Wisconsin Medical College, in Milwaukee WI.  He's sought after by folk from all over the world.  8 other doctors said "we don't see a problem".  One of them THREW US OUT OF HIS OFFICE because of how my husband "looked" - thin and wan and uncomfortable like he wanted some pain meds.  

Go figure.

But the Wizard doctor saw my husband, flipped his MRIs around like Tom Cruise in COCKTAIL, looked at 'em quickly  and said to us, "oh, that thing has to come out, and soon!"

When they opened my husband up, the damaged disk FELL onto the operating table. So much for the slanted opinions of the M-Deities who said there was nothing wrong.

The nerve was pinched for 15 years - nerves regenerate at a rate of 1 millimeter per day at the fastest - so it would take 3 1/2 years for the nerve from the spine on down the leg to regenerate - and THEN was when it really starts to hurtin'.  

Also, re the Ultram thread:  Ultram was invented to replace narcotics and touted as non addictive.  It produces a distinctively different feeling, almost an aura, but to my experience it does not control pain worth a hoot.  My doctor gave it to me so I didn't have to take "addictive" stuff.  18 months later tests prove it is every bit as addictive as hydrocodone and all the rest, and now they make it in as Ultracet, the ultram version of percs.

Obviously it works for some, else the Ultram addiction threads wouldn't be here......

Mitzpah -

[Starraven]

email is ***@**** nn's.  Thanks a bunch!

[Starraven]

Can you email me, I have a question.  (concerning my dad and his back problems, identical to your back problems)  ***@****

Thanks
Suze

[Starraven]

Can you email me, I have a question.  (concerning my dad and his back problems, identical to your back problems)  ***@****

Thanks
Suze

[percsnomas]

Welcome Jack!!!
and congrats on making it into Day 2...
You're main concern, about "residual" back pain, was exactly the same concern i had prior and during giving up percs; after my 2 back surgeries.
Next Tuesday will be 3 complete months off opiates, and my back feels great.....During the first couple weeks, it ached like crazy, but with Naprosyn and Hot tubs, I've kept everything in check. What were your procedures?

[jack daniels]

Thanx for your post, yes, I have read some bad things about Ultram, but I

[Sundown]

Congratulations on getting through the first day. The next few won't be too great either, but as each of us goes through withdrawl differently, you may feel better faster or slower. Watch out on the ultram though. If you  end up substituting it for the norco, you'll just have another drug to detox from. I owuld suggest no more than a few days on it, and don't exceed the prescribed dosage.

Good luck
Sundown

[groovygirl]

Regardless of your not so nice posts to me, I feel obligated to tell you that many online pharmacies are being very closely watched by the DEA and other organizations.  Many of these doctors may be legit, but they don't have any morals.  Many of these doctors have gotten in trouble in the past for selling scripts.  If they work (and I use the term loosely) for an online pharmacy, they are only in it for the buck - they make tons of money.

The buyer need not worry too much about getting busted, but the next time you go to fill your script, the place may be gone...then where are you?  You are forced to go through withdrawal or forced to seek meds elsewhere.  It is a bad racket to get involved in...

[jack daniels]

I just made 24 hrs, from taking 6-8 norco a day for the past 10 years.....I

[Starraven]

LOL.  Hey, where is Dr. T!  LOL

[Witchywoman]

Koala, you can email me at ***@****

Staraven, I am not a Doc, so I really have no ability to interpret what your medical records say. It does sound like they indicate you have a lot going on that would cause pain though!

good luck!

love,
WW

[Starraven]

How horrible that they won't prescribe you anything and you had to go to an online pharmacy.  I'm wondering if I should go to a pain management clinic at all now.  This is why all those online pharmacies are popping up.  Because the doctors we go to don't want or won't prescribe the narcotics.  Most of the time they have NO idea the kind of pain we are in.  They probably don't have a back problem one.  on my first visit to my spinal surgeon I could barely get my left left working and he prescribed a medrol pack for me..I later called in for something stronger and his assistant called in lortab for me.  Everytime I have to go back in he tells me that I won't need the pain meds if I get more surgery and I know eventually he will cut me off for that reason..I am afraid to have a fusion.  I have thirty  percocet and one refill of lortab that i haven't refilled since i decided to come clean..who knows, when those are gone, I might be on my own too.  I am so sorry they were not supportive of your pain!
I hope you have some relief now.
Hugs,
Suze

[Starraven]

Thanks so much for you post.  Yours and Catufs made me feel alot better.  I didn't take a pill last night and I didn't have the whispers. (those have seemed to have lessoned in the past few weeks) I called my spinal surgeon again because I wanted my records and my cat scans so I could take them to a pain management clinic, because I don't want anymore surgery, not now at least.  All this stuff makes no sense to me.  If anyone knows about backs, can you read this and tell me what it means.
These are reports from only a few visits.  The first time I have really been told or seen exactly what is wrong with me.  Is all this really bad??  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1st visit pre cat scan: Ms Suze's physical findings today are consisten with bilateral sciatic stretch test.  She has this at 40 degrees bilaterally.  She also has decreased EHL on the left side.  She also has an L5 sensory distribution loss.

Impression: Acute herniated disc, L4. L 5 left.  Cat scan ordered.

2nd vist pre cat scan : Ms. Suze (last name changed. LOL) has a large obstructive L5 S1 Disc Herniation.  She has a process which has made her life miserable,She has had back pain for twenty years but the left leg symptoms all the way down the L5 distribution is intolerabale"  We discussed risk, pro's, and benefits and she wishes to proceed. Simple  Discectomy bilaterally is encouaged.  If left side gets the fragment then we will stay with the left side only.  She maybe eventually have a disk collapse and require a fusion procedure down the road.  Prescribed medrol pack and lortab for pain.

Post Cat scan:  Ms. Suze is seen today post CT Can.  The CT scan shows she has a very tight bilateral stenosis at L4-L5.  She also has a very large central Disk protrusion which is affecting her left leg.  She also has spinal stenosis and calcific disease at L5-S1.

We discussed the fact that her second medrol dose pack my not even be helful, but we are going to try again. We discussed the fact the she may have some options to negotiate and potential intervention down the road.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gosh, WHat in the world does all this mean aside from me being in incredible pain.  WW, I am going to go with your scale on the pain..Right now I'm at about an 8, If I don't move around too much. LOL  When I am at a ten I will call my husband and ask him where he hid my ONE pill I asked him to put away, the rest are at work with him.  sleep was hard last night, takes me ten minutes just to roll from one side to the other. Ugh

Thanks again for your post..Means alot and I am at my wits end with this pain.  Twenty years ago my freakin doctor told me I had a pinched nerve and never did CT scan, Mri or even an xray. Thought I was too young to have back problems.  Sorry this is so  long.  

Hugs to all
Suze

[koalabear]

Could you please post your email again.  I know it started with souldancers but I couldn't find it on the board.  Thanks.

Koala

[Witchywoman]

Staraven I know how you feel.  Exactly one day before it would have been a full year of being 100% off all narcotics, I had a major episode with my back pain that led me to the ER. I couldn't walk the pain was so bad.

I remember posting about it here and talking to NA friends and recovery friends and was told over and over that this did not ruin my clean time as I did not abuse, I took the  meds appropriately and as needed. Since that ER visit I've taken the meds a few other time. My Doc wanted me on oxy  daily, and for one week I did comply. But I got so terrified of the physical dependance I stopped.

My hubbie has the pill bottles. I don't want to know where they are. If I need one I have a commitment to be honest about it and ask him for one. The deal I have with myself is that I can tolerate pain that is betwen a 6 and a 7 without narcotics. That is my normal daily level of pain.  Anything above an 8 that lasts more than a few hours I will take meds for. Fortunately that hasn't happened in a while.

I'm a candidate for fusion but am trying to hold out for artificial disc surgery when it gets approved.

So I would say you didn't loose your clean time, just be careful of the whispers, as the cravings can still come.

love,
WW

[CATUF]

Well, we're both on day 46!  

I know what you mean about losing count -- on my printout of the passage about the Seirenes I keep a running count with 1 vertical "tic" for 4 days and a diagional for the 5th.  It seemed like I'd N-E-V-E-R get through that first group with a diagional.  Now I've got 5+ and I had to add 10 days this morning that I hadn't found time to add lately.

Well, off to eat and then work out.

CATUF

[mrrstracy]

Hey all, I use to come here every day, but I've been out of town for a couple of weeks. I also have disc herniations of L-4 L-5 S-2, degenerative disc, arthristis, and scholeosis. My family phys. referered me to Cincinnati Pain Management clinic 2 months ago. They never prescribed me anything to manage the pain except for zanaflex, which is a muscle relaxer. The Dr. also did an epidural on me. It didn't work and I was in severe pain afterwards. When I called and asked for something for pain, she said she would not prescribe narcotics and said she would not be able to help me since the epidural did not work. Come to find out, she is an anesthesiologist, not a pain Dr. I also have a question for Dr.Thomas. Do pain Dr's have to be certified or take courses on how to deal with patients with chronic pain, or can they just put Pain Management behind their name. I was left totally in pain and frustrated due to her lack of sympathy. I finally got fed up and went to an online pharmacy which I just had a telephone interview and faxed my medical records yeaterday and got a script of Norco 10/325 today. I know they are a legit Dr. and pain clinic, but I guess I'm concerned with the ease in which you get your meds. It's a shame that persons with real pain get judged and our pain goes untreated and we are forced to look elsewhere for relief. I know for a fact that true pain, if gone untreated can result in severe depression, and can totally destroy your life. At the same time, so can addiction to these narcotics. But I do believe that if properly managed and the patient is tapered off the right way when pain subsides, we wouldn't have so many problems. Just my opinion. Thanks for any advice.

Tracy

[Starraven]

Thank you so much for your kind words and support. You are right,  but i will not be in control of those pills, my understanding husband will, that way I won't "slip"  You know..I thought I was on day 38, I counted because I was always a day behind you, so I WAS on day 45 yesterday!  WOW!  Thats really incredible that I even lost count because I stopped counting when I started feeling better from the withdrawals!

Thanks again.  I will try not to be so hard on myself.

Hugs,
Suze

[CATUF]

Hippee:  I am so very sorry to hear about your nephew.  I don't know what else to say.  I will be thinking & praying about him and you.

Starraven: I don't think you should be so hard on yourself -- you're taking FAR less that a prescribed does for legitimate pain reasons and you're recogonizing that you can't trust yourself to stick to that level without help from a trusted love one.  Generally, it's not use of the pills that caused us problems, but the abuse.  I think WW said not too long ago that clean time is not abated by genuine, as-prescribed use.  If you keep your usage to low doses and only when really-really needed, I'd say you're as clean as a bean.

CATUF
@ Day 46

[Starraven]

Thank you so much for your support,  I was having a bad pain day yesterday and I ended up taking ONE percocet before bed and gave the rest to my husband to monitor.  So I guess I have screwed up my 38 days of being clean.  At least I got a decents night sleep. Usually I cannot even roll over from one side to the other in bed without incredible pain and it will take me five minutes to do so.

I just got a new PCP because my old one retired, I actually went in for a different matter.  (anxiety, depression, which had alot to do with the pain and my blood pressure was way and I had to go in everyday for a week to get it checked)  I told them all about my back and he said,  "you aren't here for pain meds are you"  I said no, my specialist prescribes them.  He said good, because I would have put a big red flag on your chart.  Well that pissed me off.  I have LEGITIMATE PAIN PEOPLE! (but I did tell them what the doctors assistant said about me needing surgery versus pain managment and to take a shot of vodka to sleep..they too said my specialist is the best in the state, but he IS a cut man.) They had no problems putting me on Wellbutrin, paxil and lorazepam at the same time..I was a complete ZOMBIE and when I went back and told them they said, well isn't that better than the anxiety and panic attacks.  If my children asked to burn the house down while I was on them..I would have said.."Okay dear, whatever you want to do"

I called my spinal specialist and requested to pick up my records, which I will do today, along with my cat scan and see if I can't find someone that can help me.  Everyday my disk degeneration gets worse. I can feel it. I am literally bone to bone and its only going to get worse.  But I can stand it for now and will not have the surgery.  

Thanks again so much for your support.

I haven't taken a percocet today,  my husband will give me one tonight so I can at least have a good nights sleep with lessoned pain.  I am feeling really bummed that I got this far clean, only to give in.  But I WILL take responsibly!  Even if my husband has to take the pills to work with him.  
I feel so dissapointed in myself.
Suze

[suzieneedshelp]

Watch out!   Stadol is the synthetic narcotic that i am addicted to!  I have severe migraines.  Do u take imitrex?
Suzie

[Sugarbeens]

It is funny how different doctors are.  My family doctor referred me to a Pain Management doctor about 8 years ago. This doctor gives me regular meds and ups them at times when I am in a lot of pain and then I tell him to cut them back when I am not having the crisis. He, like me, doesn't believe in doing surgery all the time.  I told him that I wouldn't have surgery and he is fine with that and wants me to stay on the vics and percosets.  Even though I know I am addicted to them, I have cut way back and try and take them only when I hurt a lot.  I have herniated disks in S-1 and S-2, and 3 in L something or other, plus arthritis and degenerative disk.  If you insist that you want to go to a  pain management clinic , than I think he has to refer you, or check with your insurance company to find out the route you should take.  If this doctor won't do it, change doctors.  Is this your family doctor, nuerologist???  I thank God that I found this place as I had been suffering severly for over 20 years. I have a high profile job and am very busy and love to work.  I couldn't work without some pain relief.    Good luck to you.  Love to all.

[theGolden1]

Dear Suze .... I couldn't help responding to your post. It is so hard to find a good doctor. I know you are upset, and rightfully so .... but they do not understand. You must play their game or switch doctors. When you are ready to have surgery .... this docotr would be your man. For pain management, you need someone else. You know what is best for YOU. With them, it's all about money. Just save yourself. No one wants to be addicted. It took me two years of pain before I had my surgery. I had something called "trigger fingers" ... it sounds funny, but believe me it was rough. I was so afraid of being cut. Then I got so tired of being crippled .... I just figured, go for it! Now I'm sorry I didn't do it sooner ... but I wasn't ready, and it was my choice. Good luck to you ... Goldie