ain't love grand? now about addiction...

[groovygirl]

I had to say something about the ongoing soap opera/love story that is unfolding here on the addiction forum.  Although it is nice, sweet etc etc etc, it IS another thing to sift through to get to the answers most of us are looking for.  I personally wouldn't want my love life discussed on an addiction forum, but I guess it's different strokes for different folks.

I have a question about addiction...What is in Ultram that makes it so addicting?  It isn't a narcotic...right?

[druggienomo]

I dont know why i am asking these questions anyway. I guess I am feeling sorry for myself. OK im snapped out of that...I am glad to hear from all the addicts here. I know I am not alone. I guess none of us expected to be an addict. sometimes I feel like I am the only normal one on the planet. You would think the whole detox/rehab thing would be humbling enough. Mariposa and friends..keep up the fight. A lot of us need all the help we can get. I think my shrink said this..."I hold the Doctor responsible..and you accountable." But..who knows..I am the one who abused the stuff..Just because I had a script for most of it is no excuse. Ive said enough..makes me feel better to say this stuff. Life sure is different without opiates. Kinda different..kinda better..kinda worse..
Later
druggie no mo

[druggienomo]

I am new here, but does Jesse work for medhelp? I sure hope this is not a on-line lovers chat room. I know I am still not out of the woods yet, and from what I am reading,many others are not either. I wondered what all that language stuff was to suze. If they have a thing going..why talk about it here?
still foggy
Later
druggie no mo

[groovygirl]

He has nothing to do with the adminstration of this board.  It was a strange name for him to pick, and it has confused a lot of people.  I personally think he should change it to something else.  I don't know the answer to your other question...I've wondered the same thing.

[hippy]

hi maraposa, it has been a rough day for me, i explain in a min.
1st the ultram is considered a non-narcotic pain med. my docter
who knows i am an addict has given it to me over the years, then he swiched it to ultracet they both do the same thing , they help with the pain , but tolerence builds fast, the down side is the withdrawls are very painfull , worse the vikes.
i will say that when i ever ran out of vikes i would take the ultram and it would get rid of the vike withdrawls.
ith ultram is not a drug that ever gave me a buzz it was more and uncomfortable feeling. they are a lot easier to taper off of than vikes and percs.
As as far as my day i went to visit younger sister who lives in prinston JEW JERSY  her 5 year old so has just been diagnosed
with musclular dsystrefy , sorry for the horrable spelling.
any way my heart is broken for my little nefyou.
while i was there her was trying to make his bed to show his mom he could do it by himself, i looked in and saw him struggling to get it done so he could make his mom proud of him. it brought me to tears, he cant even button his shirt buttons.
well he has to go through a lot of testing in the next few weeks.
any way i will be praying for him. i got him a little bot bible and a book about charile brown with a freind with a illness,
and i got him some spiderman cars to play with.
life can be so tough , he thinks god is punishing him so i
spent some time talking to him regarding this delema.
i told him how much i love him and started teaching him how to play chess. i also got him a chess board.

peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[druggienomo]

Thx for the information. I actually thought he was a Doctor for a while. We never know who we are talking to here. It takes me a while to know who cares and is in need of help. I think this is the most informative place I have found about addiction.
When I went in for detox/rehab I had no idea what to expect. If I had read this before,it would have been a real help. Then again, I may not have gone.
Anyway..that monkey is a distant 26 day memory now. If he tries to jump on me..Im gonna take his head off!!
Later
druggie no mo

[druggienomo]

Hey, I don't know you,but I feel for you. That has to be tough. You did a lot for him, he will understand how much you cared one day. Keep up the fight my Brother.
Later
druggie no mo

[LTR]

I check-in every now and again to see what everyone is up to and what the topic is.  Ultram addiction is not something i would ever wish upon anyone.  Yes, i understand that various people handle different things in different ways, but I do know what this drug put me through.  Went from 3 a day to 18 a day in less then a year.  In the beginning is seemed so harmless (sounds familiar in this forum).  
If I remember correctly, I did not even like it that much. Towards the end I could not function without it leading to a siezure in the middle of the night with my wife and over ten firemen in my bedroom.  the next week was pure hell, I've taken hydrocodone, methadone, fentynal patches, percocet, a month in the hospital on a morphine pump, etc., and not had this problems.  I have had the withdrawal feelings from these things (i never really took them too long)- drug of choice Ultram.  This will make no sense to anyone that has not been in the same boat- I assure you, but those that had will agree it is terrible.  The only good thing about the ultram withdrawal was it was swift, lasted a week or maybe a little more- but it was hell so Please be Careful.

-ps:  I recall the conversation i had with my Dr. about four years ago about the Ultram when he prescribed it.  He looked it up, stated it was not addicting nor was it a narcotic.  I was prescribed them like tic tacs (nine per day)- of course i abused them after that.  Over a year later-post seizure- he looked it up again and it had changed not only in the description of the drug but the class.

[hippy]

thanx , i really  am gratefull for your support.
i hope you are well. you sound like your doing great.
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! michael/ hippy

[percsnomas]

Hey Michael from Philly....kind of been buried in my mother in law deal, but i just read about you're nephew....Ouch.
My heart and support goes out to you, you're sister and of course you're nephew. Kids are so damn precious; there are not words to describe....
Take Care

Percs No More

[cheermom]

you had asked me if during my adderall (adderrall) "time" if i had problems with my hair falling out.  i didnt experience that but i've always had long, thick hair and i got it cut short(shoulder length) during my addiction time.  what i have noticed is that it really has not grown very much in the past 9 months or so.  i used to have to get my hair cut about every 8-10 wks and i mean really cut.  the thickness still grows in but the length barely grows at all.  does anyone know anything about this being a possible side effect?

also as far as lips splitting in the corners...i didnt have that but my finger would split on the tips.  it was so painful.  i bought every kind of cream available and then finally went to the dr they hurt so bad.  he put it off to cold weather, cleaning, etc.  it finally cleared up probably after i stopped using, i really dont remember.

[vikequeen]

When your lips or corners of your mouth split it is called angular cheilosis and its a vitamin deficincy(spelling) something I learned in dental school, I am currently taking ultram for vike w/d I know all teh dangers and I only take 2 at a time I mean taking more is futile because they do not give me a high, I also have like 8 10 mg vals, and like 80 klonopin so I am ok just very depressed . The dr gave me luvox for that but I keep forgetting to take it. well good wishes to all love Badd

[lisabet]

Hippee - it saddens me to read about your nephew. The little guy and your family are in my thoughts and prayers. It made me cry to read about him trying to make up his bed. Children are so resilent and have so much more strength than we adults do. We wonder why things like this happen to pure innocent children; I wish I had the answers.  But the little guy sounds like a fighter --- I'm betting he handles this better than his parents. (and he's lucky to have an uncle that brings him presents when he visits...) smile. Very good choice....Spiderman rules!!!! Take care - thinking of ya, Lisabet

[LizzyM]

Hipee--SO SORRY to hear about your nephew.  My thoughts go out to you, your sister and especially your nephew.  he is so young and doesn't understand.  That was wonderful of you to sit down and have a talk with him..Thinking of your nephew should makes us all so thankful of our "problem".  At least we can TRY to fix it.  Kids are little angels and don't desearve to have any health problems. But, I know that's not how things go.  My heart really aches for your nephew.  IF you don't mind me asking, why did it take a doctor wo long to discover this?  I don't know much about the disease but I know it's hard to see kids have it.

  Mariposa...that Stadol made me feel all wiggy.  THe doc said it would knock me it..well it didn't..just made me feel very wierd..a bad wierd.  I jumped at every sound.  But, the migraine is gone.  I was taking the Hydro's for severe pain from Endometrisois not migraines.  Do you know anything about that illnesss--the cramping and anything that's not naracotic that works real wel?  Amyway, gotta run.  I'll be back here tomorrow.

[taeme]

Can someone tell me what I can do for anxiety, restlessness besides excersise and warm baths, I have so much homework and tests I can even begin to concentrate. I have gone to a study group tonight and basically I was worthless and really didn't get much accomplished.  Is there anything over the counter I can take, muscle relaxers or ideas that are not med related.  This anxiety has been building on me for the past five or six days. It now at the point I can't sit still but I don't want to do anything.  Can you guys help.  I have a test again tomorrow.  HEART TAEME

[GOD]

Please delete the account "Jesse@medhelp"

Unfortunately, this username has caused much confusion here on the forum.

I AM NOT working for MedHelp. The only reason I chose this particular name was to ensure that our "Hacker" friend from last month chose someone else's Identity to steal, and make fake posts with.

It's been a fun year, and now I ride off into the sunset, never to be seen on THIS forum again. For those of you who know, I'll be posting on the other board from now on.

Thanks to everyone who supported me, and helped me through several horrible detoxes!

Goodnight-
~~~~Jess~~~~

[cheermom]

i'm off to bed.  have to get up for work in the morning. i was unable to hold a job for a couple of yrs so it feels great to go to work everyday!  i never thought i would say that.  i hope everyone has a peaceful night knowing tomorrow is another day.
i'm stopping at the pharmacy tomorrow to check out the vitamins.  i just want ALL of my energy back and everything functioning on an even keel.  again have a peaceful night.

[cheermom]

what is this "other board" that jesse refers to?  this is the only one i've ever found that wasnt more a question and answer type forum.  just curious....

[Philip1815]

Jesse@medhelp has been deleted.

[taeme]

Can you help with my question about being anxious, restless.  It is posted about 3-5 messages above this one? I'm looking for a way to relax, so that I can study.  Besides exercise and or baths? Thanks TAEME

[MethMan]

I THINK that Ultram is some sort of Benzo.  Maybe not an opiate, but could fix you up down the road the same way none the less.

From what I have been told (In rehab) was that an opiate WD won't Kill you.  You may feel like it (as I do) or wish for it at times, but it won't kill you.  On the other hand, Benzos CAN kill you in WD unless you are under the care of a doc.

When I was in Rehab, I watch this unfold.  Patient comes in, goes about 2 days, then went frickin' crazy in ICU.  I felt terrible for the poor guy, but there was nothing I could do but get out of the way for the pros to help and they did.

As crappy as I feel coming off of Methadone, I can promise you that I am not going to take ANY chances on cross-addiction of any kind.  I'll take the hit now (Provided there is an eventual end to this WD Hell..).

Hope I wasn't TOO rambling.  Afterall, this is Day 9 for me.

God Bless,
Mike

P.S. Yes, Love is grand. There may be a simple reason for the posts.  Maybe they typed medhelp when trying to type voyeurism. :)  Sorry...  I know.. but I'm ILL Damn it. ;)

[druggienomo]

I just got here today, so I don't love you ,cause I don't know you. Anyway, Addicts trying to make a love connection here usually doesnt work,or so I am told every day in outpatient.

As far as ultram, I used it,and got nothing out of it. It did not help my head,or give me any high. My drug of choice is Lortab,with Fentanyl. I wonder why people get different feelings from the same drugs? I know xanex addicts who use them and love um. I just get pissed off and want to sleep.
Anyway, Im a whole 26 days clean,and do not want to use again. I wonder if or when I will crave the drug again. Kinda freakes me out thinking about it. I cannot go through rehab again.
Later
druggie no mo.

[Sundown]

Actually, ultram is a narcotic, in that it interacts with the some of the same receptors in the brain as other opiates. It is not classified as a controlled substance like other narcotics because it was thought to be "only" a partial agonist (weakly binding to those natural opiate receptors in our brains), and therefore, according to it's manufacturer, not addictive. Well, the experiences of folks here who have dealt with the drug sure demonstrate it's addictive potential. To think of it as not a narcotic is wrong. It is a useful pain medication when used correctly, but don't be misled into thinking it can't grab you like any other narcotic can.

Sundown

[bmac]

Ultram did nothing for me or my pain.I do see a lot of people taking it.My PCP gives samples by the bag full in his office.
I hate taking stuff like that.Celebrex works better on me than Ultram,for some reason.I couldn't imagine getting hooked on it and having to go thru the withdrawals.As far as the brain being damaged,it does rewire itself.That's why certain minerals and vitamins are in the recipe.There are many articles on the 'net'
about brain rewiring!lol.Good luck to ya!
                      bmac

[GOD]

The Tramadol HCl (Ultram) Molecule is the chemical "Mirror" of codeine. It is non-narcotic, but binds to some of the same opiate receptors in your brain that many opiates do. It is great to use for opiate withdrawal symptoms (as long as you don't use it for more than 5 days). The drug is a very effective pain killer, but beware of overuse! I built up a monster tolerance to the stuff. If used as directed, (no more than 400 Milligrams, or 8 50 milligram pills per day) this can be a "wonder-drug". Give it to a drug-addict, and you run into problems~~~!!!

~~~~Jess~~~~

[bmac]

You are so smart!Intellegent I mean.

[Starraven]

I guess I missed the sweet love stories but I don't think there are so many that we still can't find the advice we need on this board for our addictions. How is this for a love story, I LOVE THIS FORUM!  With that said, Ultram is not a benzo, but just like benzo's you can have siezures while coming off of them or by taking too many of them.  I too get nothing out of Ultram (thank goodness), but my father recently took a terrible fall while on Ultram and ended up in the emergency room.  Sundown suggested its possible he might have blacked out. He always almost never takes as prescribed and just takes a hand full of pills for pain. (he is 67) (mixing ultram with asprin or ibuprofen and in the past sometimes he would help himself to my lortab) I really don't think doctors have enough information on them, but they are learning.
Suze

[MethMan]

See what I mean?  I don't know what the hell I am talking about.  All I can say is I do not want ANY drug binding to ANY of MY frickin' receptors anymore.  Which reminds me.....

Dear Receptors,
I have sure screwed you around and not been there for you or needed you.  But, I have seen the er of my ways.  Please come back to me baby.  I LOVE YOU!  I NEED YOU!

Geezz.... How is THAT for a love story?  :)

Man, I am one sick dude...

Love to all..
Mike

[Starraven]

You made me laugh, Thank you.  I'm sure it wasn't meant to be funny, but we have to find humor in our addition at times.

Suze

[peaz]

SURE it was meant to be funny!! And it was!! You sound 300% better in just the short time you've been posting here.  Congratulatons and keep hangin' in there.  Good job!!


Peaz

[groovygirl]

Methman - that is one love story that is appropriate for this forum...and it made me laugh.

Everyone that answered about Ultram - Thank you.

[feelsobad]

Hello to all you old timers on the forum. Im new here although I have been lurking/reading for a couple a weeks. I must confess I really thought I was alone with my HEAD since 1st week in August (went through d/t). I seemed  ok until late Sept. then I feel like I have been on some bad sh**y acid. NO concentration, NO feelings, NO energy, you get the point. I mean I can't even do the job I've been doing for years its so bad. My question is, "Is there anybody that has been clean for as long and still feels like tommorrow may never come?". I just don't get it! I have an understanding wife that knows my problem but she hasn't "been there". I keep waiting to wake up. But every day its the same fog-buzzzzzbrain.....
will this ever quit and let me live my life in normalcy, sanity?
I hope you all understand... I didn't mean to get to far from the current thread but Im a sick puppy...Did I say terrified?
yes I think thats it

thanks to all,
feelsobad

[taeme]

Ultram is listed in the drug book as a narcotic/opiod analgesic.  I will write some of the pertinent info here.

Generic: tramadol hydrochloride.
Action:Unknown. A centrally acting synthetic analgesic compound not chemically related to opiates. Drug is thought to bind to opioid receptors and inhibit reuptake of norepinephrine and serotonin.  
(some)Adverse Reactions: dizziness, vertigo, coordination disturbance, seizures, menopausal symptoms, decreased hemoglobin levels, hypertonia(tight muscles), and all the other friendly reactions associated with opiodes.

Warning: Drug can produce dependence similar to that of codeine or destropropoxyphene and thus has potential for abuse.  

Caution: Caution ambulatory patients to be careful when rising and walking. Warn  pt. to avoid driving and other potentially hazardous activities that require mental alertness.  


If you need more info, you can ask me specifics or just a general question.  I'll try and answer it if I can.  

HEART TAEME

ps Sundown are you doing OK today?

[Sundown]

Yes, thanks for asking. Today has been pretty good. Physically I'm feeling better than ever. Mentally I'm getting more honest with myself and beginning to accept how far I still have to go. But I know there is no turning back for me now, and I'm going forward as best I can.
I think sometimes in life that the things we fear most are never as bad as we think, and the things we believe we are in control of are the ones that get us.
Hope you're doing well.
Sundown

[MethMan]

Congradulations on getting better physically Sundown!  What a milestone.  You have GOT to feel like you can do anything at this point, right?  I envy you.

I'm gonna give my physical situation a couple more days.  After that, I'm gonna call Guido and Da' Boys to come over and beat the **** outta me with a bat.  It won't take away the WD symptoms, but it might take my mind off it. :)

Sorry for the stupid **** I write.  Once I get to feeling better and the brain unfogs, I'm gonna look back here and be embarrassed.  But hey.. at least I am doin' the deal instead of hiding behind some chemical.

Oh... mariposa.. my receptor emailed me.  Said she has a new boyfriend named "Syapse" (sp) and wouldn't be back for a couple months.  What a *****.  Oh well... I need her so I'll wait...

Thanks for puttin' up with me...

Mike

[Allburnedout]

Don't mean to change the thread, but I have to confess. I made it to day 10 and on Sunday night, I broke down. My wife wanted to take the kids to a movie and I didn't have the energy. I was "on edge" all weekend. So what did I do? You guessed it. I made that dreadful phone call we've all made and scored 14 percs. I took 4 Sunday, 3 yesterday and 1 this morning. When I was out to lunch today, I threw the remaining 5 out. I feel horrible for relapsing. I had 10 days under my belt. My back was hurting and I felt so drained......but, there's no justifying it. I gave in. Hopefully, I will not have wd's from that little usage. I don't know if I can go through them again.

Thanks for all of your posts. Reading your articles are what made me throw them out. I can't thank you all enough.

[MethMan]

Hey bud...
You did good.  10 years ago, I DIDN'T throw them out and hung on another 10 years.  Maybe the disease hit you a little, but you got right back up, dusted yourself off and got back in the fight.  GOOD WORK! And what's more.. it takes a hell of a human being to admit it.

This crappy disease has a wonderful time screwing with our self-esteem making us have feelings like guilt, shame, etc.  Reject that part of it too bud.  You're up.  Just keep going.

I too have been in some pretty dark places over the last week, but this place has helped me more than I thought possible.  Just hang tough.  The pills are gone and you're moving forward.  Maybe you'll see it coming next time and opt out on the buy.  None the less.  I'm proud of you.

All the best my friend.
Mike

[taeme]

Keep it up were all behind you, just cause you lapsed doesn't mean anything you've realized it, caught yourself and decided to continue in the right direction.  If this helps when I was getting off coke I think I scored at least two times before I gave it up for good.  Now I've been away from Coke for over 3 yrs.  So don't **** on yourself over a moment of weakness, mind you don't think you'll be able to dabble in meds lightly, you will have to give them up for good, all of them.  Thanks for the honesty. Cause I know theres a lot of relapse that doesn't get posted.  TAEME

[Sundown]

Hey, it sounds like you're doing just fine! It's not easy, but we both know there's no other choice.
And you don't need anyone to beat on you. You've done that enough already :) So give it time, and it does get better.

Hang in there,
Sundown

[Allburnedout]

Thanks, guys. I needed the encouragement. I'm blessed to have you all.

[Allburnedout]

Thanks, guys. I needed the encouragement. I'm blessed to have you all.

[druggienomo]

I am new,and I know this is off the topic,but..I am 26 days clean from bad opiate abuse. (Fentanyl)..Im getting back to feeling normal..but I am dumb as a freakin rock. I forget what I'm doing. I even forget what I'm talking about in mid sentence.
Is this normal? And another thing...when will my wife trust me again.
Later
Druggie no mo

[groovygirl]

Hello - I don't think your question can be answered by anyone here...about your wife trusting you again.  It depends on what you did to make her mistrust you and how hard you are trying to regain her trust.  Are you really working on it?

It takes some people a much shorter time to feel better, and it takes others a much longer time.  It's been almost 30 days for you, and that seems to be the magical number for some.

Is Fentanyl a patch?  I hope you feel better soon...

[LizzyM]

Hey Everyone..I couldn't take it anymore.  My headache turned into a MIGRAINE.  Went to my family doc who knows all about my addiction and he gave me a shot of Stadol.  IS that ok?  Also gave me a shot of Vistiril for the vomiting..I was in pretty bad shape.  The doc said he had to give me relief from my migraine. I still have the shakes, hot sweats, aggitation, aching bones..he said it was sill withdrawal and this is day 18 for me.  I guess 30 IS the magic number.  Anyway, the doc said that the Stadol would knock me out...I'm still here don't really feel anything but the migraine seems to be going by bye.

[groovygirl]

I think it is very strange that your doc gave you Stadol...that is some bad stuff.  Most docs agree that the stuff is so highly addictive it's not worth prescribing...that's what I've heard anyway.

It's good that it gave you some relief...I suffer from the same -chronic migraines.  They really controlled my life for awhile.  Buprenex has been great for it, but I'd like to find something non-narcotic that works.

[suzieneedshelp]

Have u ever learned progresive relaxation?  I teach it in my voice therapy.  It is very helpful.  envolves focussing on imagery in a relaxing setting (i.e, beach, mountain, etc. ) then going from your toes up your body one muscle group at a time and tensing and then relaxing and letting go...You need training.  I made Jessie a tape and would  be happy to do the same for you.
Take care!
Suzie

[suzieneedshelp]

Also thx for your kind words. It meant a lot.
Suzie
P.S. wut does taeme mean?

[2old2fast]

I also love the misery of addition.

[2old2fast]

is this a chat thing im new at this

[taeme]

Taeme means: tae for tae kwon do, me is for me.  Cause I did tae kwon do for a long time and I still love it. I was texas state champ in 1996.  Anyway I do know of the method of relaxation you are speaking of but I would love a tape to help me through the proper technique or just whatever you have would be great.  



Cheermom and Suzie here is my email: ***@****.  I look forward to hearing from you both. Ya'll have been great!

HEART TAEME

[taeme]

This isn't exactly a chat, but its a forum that you can post questions about addiction and recovery or give advice.  Most of your questions are answered fairly quickly by someone who participates in this forum but at night when people go to sleep it slows down.  Welcome to the forum were glad to have you I've only been here about 1week and a half but it feels like home.

[2old2fast]

Thanks for reply.I really need to vent my misery

[taeme]

Go for it we're listening. Sorry I go back and forth from this to homework. But I'll be here for a little while and I'll try and respond.  Or maybe someone else will be up.  I usually give up about now as far as having anyone respond.  But I'm here now.

[Tomasello_MD]

Ultram, (tramadol) is not a narcotic however it does carry the potential for addiction in some users. I have prescribed it in the past "carefully" in those who have had problems with addiction to opiods or other narcotic medications. The usual dose is 50 mg 4 times daily. There is a newer medication known as "Ultracet" which is 37.5 mg of tramadol combined with acetaminophen. This, I have found to be very effective in some individuals and it does have a lower incidence of addiction than plain ultram.

[gem1angel]

Hippee, i just wanted to say sorry about your nephew, it must be difficult on your sister, yourself and family.

My thoughts are with you!

Hope your all doing ok!

[Sundown]

Welcome if this is your first time here. I agree with you that ultram can be prescribed as an effective analgesic when indicated. However, I repectfully disagree with you that it is a non-narcotic. If it looks like an opiate, acts like an opiate, and is capable of creating physical dependence like an opiate, it's an opiate. I think it was pretty slick that it's manufacturer got FDA approval for labelling it as a "non-narcotic", using the guise of "it's mechanism of action is not fully understod". Except for the part where they glossed over the "it appears to weakly bind to subsets (including mu receptors) of opiate receptors". If I were on the advisory panel on this one, I would not have supported approval with that labeling. Many have used it safely and effectively, just as many have used more classic opiates safely and effectively, but if you read the expereinces of some people here, there are those who have become addicted and suffered from a withdrawl syndrome virtually identical to that seen with opiate withdrawl. Prescription drug addicts need to exercise the utmost care and vigilance in using any mood altering drug. If they can take it as prescribed for legitimate medical indications, they deserve whatever medication their physician believes most appropriate. But only the addict will ever honestly know whether they are having an issue with a substance or not. And ultram has caused difficulties for addicts in this forum.

Anyway, once again welcome. You have found a place filled with caring, loving people seeking support form each other.

Sundown

[groovygirl]

I didn't see your post about your nephew until today...I'm so sorry!  I don't know much about the disease, but I've been talking with my neighbor who's child was diagnosed with Crone's Disease(sp?) last week and she is a wreck!  I look at my six-year old daughter, and I think about how beautiful she is and how grateful I am that she is healthy - I'm knocking on wood right now.

It's hard to imagine a five-year old thinking God is punishing him...he's so young to think that way.  He's not alone in his thinking tho...I often think that God has a funny way of showing His love...this is a good example.

He's lucky to have you to stick by him...you are such a loving and supportive person.  I've seen your posts on the "new" board...I'll probably be over there more often than here from this point on.  I can't help lurking here tho - I've been coming here for so long, it's almost an addiction in itself...HA!

Hang tough amigo...I'll keep your nephew in my prayers.

[Sundown]

I know the pain of seeing a child sick. It does break your heart. My daughter has pretty bad asthma, and when she flares up, not only does it break my heart, but I watch the courage of my 7 year old child face her illness and not give in.

Love and watch your nephew. See the effort he makes to do the things he wants to. Learn from his his strength.

Your nephew will be in my prayers, as will you.

Sundown

[mrmichael67]

You asked about the other board.  E-mail me at ***@****.

[Starraven]

Just wanted to welcome the Dr to the forum and say I guess I am one of the lucky ones not to have had a problem with the ultram being addictive to me.  But I have heard the horror stories and my father is possibly addicted to them.  I don't find that the ultram causes the Euphoria/Energy/feeling of well being that opaites such as oxycodone or hydrocodone does when my doctor was prescribing them, but I never took more than two at a time and didn't have the desire to up the dose because frankly it did not help my pain and made me too sleepy to function during the day.
just my two scents
Suze

[Tomasello_MD]

Thank you for the warm welcome.
I currently host the Family Practice forum, but have a fair amount of experience dealing with addiction. Ultram is clearly a medication that has found a "gray area" and I can tell you that most physicians don't have any idea how potentially addicting it is. I hope my perspective here proves helpful.
Dr. "T"

[Starraven]

I know I appreciate you being here and giving us your perspective on addiction..whether it be opaites, ultram similar to opaites or benzo's, soma ect.  ALot of us can benefit from your expertise. Although most of us became addicted innocently enough through various medical problems.  Me, I have the back of a eighty year old woman.  Spinal stenosis,  protrusion of the lumbar and severe disk degeneration.  How long can I cope without the pain meds..I don't know. Pain managment might be my next course of actions since all my Spinal specialist wants to do is cut and I don't want to go through that again if I can still walk! There isn't a moment of my day that I am pain free right now that I have been off of opaites for over a month. At first my doctor refused to prescribe anymore because he wanted me to have the surgery.  I haven't been the same since he operated on the protrusion.  God knows what will happen if he goes in again to repair the degenerative disk disease and whatever else..He never speaks to me in a manner that I understand..when he saw my cat scan, all he could say at first was "uh oh"  Like I needed to hear that. and he is one of the best spinal surgeons in the country.  its not unusual to see limo's from New york parked in front of the building to have him take care of them.  He's a cut man, plain and simple.  When I asked his assistant about pain managment, she said "we have already establised you need surgery and then she gave me a hard time about prescribing the lortab, even though I would go months without it and always took as prescribed. Two every six hours. What is wrong with these doctors!  when I am in a wheelchair, I will have surgery, until then he can at least try to ease the pain a bit.  Am I bitter, you are damn right I am. He prescibed percocet for me, i had to pick up the prescription and made an appointment in which I have to wait over a month to get.  i didn't fill the prescription, my husband did, he was tired of seeing me suffer.  I'm just afraid that if I start taking them again, I will eventually have to go through the withdrawals again because he will say I need surgery and not refill.
It sucks!  No wonder people look for online pharmacies.  I am not a drug seeker, but my doctors assistant treated me as one when I told her that the "new lortab" was making me stay awake all night.  I talked to the pharmacist, he looked up the prescription and sure enough the manafacurer was different and he explained about fillers that different manufacturers use.  She told me to return the meds to the drug store or take a shot of vodka to sleep (who ever heard of this!!!!!!!!!), in which I did, but she never called me back, nor did she call in a different pain med for me.  That was that for me.  No pain meds, losts of pain, and no support from MY doctor!!  I am afraid to go to another doctor because I don't want to go through this again.  

Can you all tell I am in alot of pain and am in a very test mood!
Sorry for venting
Suze

[theGolden1]

Dear Suze .... I couldn't help responding to your post. It is so hard to find a good doctor. I know you are upset, and rightfully so .... but they do not understand. You must play their game or switch doctors. When you are ready to have surgery .... this docotr would be your man. For pain management, you need someone else. You know what is best for YOU. With them, it's all about money. Just save yourself. No one wants to be addicted. It took me two years of pain before I had my surgery. I had something called "trigger fingers" ... it sounds funny, but believe me it was rough. I was so afraid of being cut. Then I got so tired of being crippled .... I just figured, go for it! Now I'm sorry I didn't do it sooner ... but I wasn't ready, and it was my choice. Good luck to you ... Goldie

[Sugarbeens]

It is funny how different doctors are.  My family doctor referred me to a Pain Management doctor about 8 years ago. This doctor gives me regular meds and ups them at times when I am in a lot of pain and then I tell him to cut them back when I am not having the crisis. He, like me, doesn't believe in doing surgery all the time.  I told him that I wouldn't have surgery and he is fine with that and wants me to stay on the vics and percosets.  Even though I know I am addicted to them, I have cut way back and try and take them only when I hurt a lot.  I have herniated disks in S-1 and S-2, and 3 in L something or other, plus arthritis and degenerative disk.  If you insist that you want to go to a  pain management clinic , than I think he has to refer you, or check with your insurance company to find out the route you should take.  If this doctor won't do it, change doctors.  Is this your family doctor, nuerologist???  I thank God that I found this place as I had been suffering severly for over 20 years. I have a high profile job and am very busy and love to work.  I couldn't work without some pain relief.    Good luck to you.  Love to all.

[suzieneedshelp]

Watch out!   Stadol is the synthetic narcotic that i am addicted to!  I have severe migraines.  Do u take imitrex?
Suzie

[Starraven]

Thank you so much for your support,  I was having a bad pain day yesterday and I ended up taking ONE percocet before bed and gave the rest to my husband to monitor.  So I guess I have screwed up my 38 days of being clean.  At least I got a decents night sleep. Usually I cannot even roll over from one side to the other in bed without incredible pain and it will take me five minutes to do so.

I just got a new PCP because my old one retired, I actually went in for a different matter.  (anxiety, depression, which had alot to do with the pain and my blood pressure was way and I had to go in everyday for a week to get it checked)  I told them all about my back and he said,  "you aren't here for pain meds are you"  I said no, my specialist prescribes them.  He said good, because I would have put a big red flag on your chart.  Well that pissed me off.  I have LEGITIMATE PAIN PEOPLE! (but I did tell them what the doctors assistant said about me needing surgery versus pain managment and to take a shot of vodka to sleep..they too said my specialist is the best in the state, but he IS a cut man.) They had no problems putting me on Wellbutrin, paxil and lorazepam at the same time..I was a complete ZOMBIE and when I went back and told them they said, well isn't that better than the anxiety and panic attacks.  If my children asked to burn the house down while I was on them..I would have said.."Okay dear, whatever you want to do"

I called my spinal specialist and requested to pick up my records, which I will do today, along with my cat scan and see if I can't find someone that can help me.  Everyday my disk degeneration gets worse. I can feel it. I am literally bone to bone and its only going to get worse.  But I can stand it for now and will not have the surgery.  

Thanks again so much for your support.

I haven't taken a percocet today,  my husband will give me one tonight so I can at least have a good nights sleep with lessoned pain.  I am feeling really bummed that I got this far clean, only to give in.  But I WILL take responsibly!  Even if my husband has to take the pills to work with him.  
I feel so dissapointed in myself.
Suze

[CATUF]

Hippee:  I am so very sorry to hear about your nephew.  I don't know what else to say.  I will be thinking & praying about him and you.

Starraven: I don't think you should be so hard on yourself -- you're taking FAR less that a prescribed does for legitimate pain reasons and you're recogonizing that you can't trust yourself to stick to that level without help from a trusted love one.  Generally, it's not use of the pills that caused us problems, but the abuse.  I think WW said not too long ago that clean time is not abated by genuine, as-prescribed use.  If you keep your usage to low doses and only when really-really needed, I'd say you're as clean as a bean.

CATUF
@ Day 46

[Starraven]

Thank you so much for your kind words and support. You are right,  but i will not be in control of those pills, my understanding husband will, that way I won't "slip"  You know..I thought I was on day 38, I counted because I was always a day behind you, so I WAS on day 45 yesterday!  WOW!  Thats really incredible that I even lost count because I stopped counting when I started feeling better from the withdrawals!

Thanks again.  I will try not to be so hard on myself.

Hugs,
Suze

[mrrstracy]

Hey all, I use to come here every day, but I've been out of town for a couple of weeks. I also have disc herniations of L-4 L-5 S-2, degenerative disc, arthristis, and scholeosis. My family phys. referered me to Cincinnati Pain Management clinic 2 months ago. They never prescribed me anything to manage the pain except for zanaflex, which is a muscle relaxer. The Dr. also did an epidural on me. It didn't work and I was in severe pain afterwards. When I called and asked for something for pain, she said she would not prescribe narcotics and said she would not be able to help me since the epidural did not work. Come to find out, she is an anesthesiologist, not a pain Dr. I also have a question for Dr.Thomas. Do pain Dr's have to be certified or take courses on how to deal with patients with chronic pain, or can they just put Pain Management behind their name. I was left totally in pain and frustrated due to her lack of sympathy. I finally got fed up and went to an online pharmacy which I just had a telephone interview and faxed my medical records yeaterday and got a script of Norco 10/325 today. I know they are a legit Dr. and pain clinic, but I guess I'm concerned with the ease in which you get your meds. It's a shame that persons with real pain get judged and our pain goes untreated and we are forced to look elsewhere for relief. I know for a fact that true pain, if gone untreated can result in severe depression, and can totally destroy your life. At the same time, so can addiction to these narcotics. But I do believe that if properly managed and the patient is tapered off the right way when pain subsides, we wouldn't have so many problems. Just my opinion. Thanks for any advice.

Tracy

[CATUF]

Well, we're both on day 46!  

I know what you mean about losing count -- on my printout of the passage about the Seirenes I keep a running count with 1 vertical "tic" for 4 days and a diagional for the 5th.  It seemed like I'd N-E-V-E-R get through that first group with a diagional.  Now I've got 5+ and I had to add 10 days this morning that I hadn't found time to add lately.

Well, off to eat and then work out.

CATUF

[Witchywoman]

Staraven I know how you feel.  Exactly one day before it would have been a full year of being 100% off all narcotics, I had a major episode with my back pain that led me to the ER. I couldn't walk the pain was so bad.

I remember posting about it here and talking to NA friends and recovery friends and was told over and over that this did not ruin my clean time as I did not abuse, I took the  meds appropriately and as needed. Since that ER visit I've taken the meds a few other time. My Doc wanted me on oxy  daily, and for one week I did comply. But I got so terrified of the physical dependance I stopped.

My hubbie has the pill bottles. I don't want to know where they are. If I need one I have a commitment to be honest about it and ask him for one. The deal I have with myself is that I can tolerate pain that is betwen a 6 and a 7 without narcotics. That is my normal daily level of pain.  Anything above an 8 that lasts more than a few hours I will take meds for. Fortunately that hasn't happened in a while.

I'm a candidate for fusion but am trying to hold out for artificial disc surgery when it gets approved.

So I would say you didn't loose your clean time, just be careful of the whispers, as the cravings can still come.

love,
WW

[koalabear]

Could you please post your email again.  I know it started with souldancers but I couldn't find it on the board.  Thanks.

Koala

[Starraven]

Thanks so much for you post.  Yours and Catufs made me feel alot better.  I didn't take a pill last night and I didn't have the whispers. (those have seemed to have lessoned in the past few weeks) I called my spinal surgeon again because I wanted my records and my cat scans so I could take them to a pain management clinic, because I don't want anymore surgery, not now at least.  All this stuff makes no sense to me.  If anyone knows about backs, can you read this and tell me what it means.
These are reports from only a few visits.  The first time I have really been told or seen exactly what is wrong with me.  Is all this really bad??  
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1st visit pre cat scan: Ms Suze's physical findings today are consisten with bilateral sciatic stretch test.  She has this at 40 degrees bilaterally.  She also has decreased EHL on the left side.  She also has an L5 sensory distribution loss.

Impression: Acute herniated disc, L4. L 5 left.  Cat scan ordered.

2nd vist pre cat scan : Ms. Suze (last name changed. LOL) has a large obstructive L5 S1 Disc Herniation.  She has a process which has made her life miserable,She has had back pain for twenty years but the left leg symptoms all the way down the L5 distribution is intolerabale"  We discussed risk, pro's, and benefits and she wishes to proceed. Simple  Discectomy bilaterally is encouaged.  If left side gets the fragment then we will stay with the left side only.  She maybe eventually have a disk collapse and require a fusion procedure down the road.  Prescribed medrol pack and lortab for pain.

Post Cat scan:  Ms. Suze is seen today post CT Can.  The CT scan shows she has a very tight bilateral stenosis at L4-L5.  She also has a very large central Disk protrusion which is affecting her left leg.  She also has spinal stenosis and calcific disease at L5-S1.

We discussed the fact that her second medrol dose pack my not even be helful, but we are going to try again. We discussed the fact the she may have some options to negotiate and potential intervention down the road.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gosh, WHat in the world does all this mean aside from me being in incredible pain.  WW, I am going to go with your scale on the pain..Right now I'm at about an 8, If I don't move around too much. LOL  When I am at a ten I will call my husband and ask him where he hid my ONE pill I asked him to put away, the rest are at work with him.  sleep was hard last night, takes me ten minutes just to roll from one side to the other. Ugh

Thanks again for your post..Means alot and I am at my wits end with this pain.  Twenty years ago my freakin doctor told me I had a pinched nerve and never did CT scan, Mri or even an xray. Thought I was too young to have back problems.  Sorry this is so  long.  

Hugs to all
Suze

[Starraven]

How horrible that they won't prescribe you anything and you had to go to an online pharmacy.  I'm wondering if I should go to a pain management clinic at all now.  This is why all those online pharmacies are popping up.  Because the doctors we go to don't want or won't prescribe the narcotics.  Most of the time they have NO idea the kind of pain we are in.  They probably don't have a back problem one.  on my first visit to my spinal surgeon I could barely get my left left working and he prescribed a medrol pack for me..I later called in for something stronger and his assistant called in lortab for me.  Everytime I have to go back in he tells me that I won't need the pain meds if I get more surgery and I know eventually he will cut me off for that reason..I am afraid to have a fusion.  I have thirty  percocet and one refill of lortab that i haven't refilled since i decided to come clean..who knows, when those are gone, I might be on my own too.  I am so sorry they were not supportive of your pain!
I hope you have some relief now.
Hugs,
Suze

[Witchywoman]

Koala, you can email me at ***@****

Staraven, I am not a Doc, so I really have no ability to interpret what your medical records say. It does sound like they indicate you have a lot going on that would cause pain though!

good luck!

love,
WW

[Starraven]

LOL.  Hey, where is Dr. T!  LOL

[jack daniels]

I just made 24 hrs, from taking 6-8 norco a day for the past 10 years.....I’m so happy..This morning I took 2 Ultram and it made me fill alot better, but still not good. I have 3 days and I have to go back to work...this is the toughest thing I have ever done!

[groovygirl]

Regardless of your not so nice posts to me, I feel obligated to tell you that many online pharmacies are being very closely watched by the DEA and other organizations.  Many of these doctors may be legit, but they don't have any morals.  Many of these doctors have gotten in trouble in the past for selling scripts.  If they work (and I use the term loosely) for an online pharmacy, they are only in it for the buck - they make tons of money.

The buyer need not worry too much about getting busted, but the next time you go to fill your script, the place may be gone...then where are you?  You are forced to go through withdrawal or forced to seek meds elsewhere.  It is a bad racket to get involved in...

[Sundown]

Congratulations on getting through the first day. The next few won't be too great either, but as each of us goes through withdrawl differently, you may feel better faster or slower. Watch out on the ultram though. If you  end up substituting it for the norco, you'll just have another drug to detox from. I owuld suggest no more than a few days on it, and don't exceed the prescribed dosage.

Good luck
Sundown

[jack daniels]

Thanx for your post, yes, I have read some bad things about Ultram, but I’ve only taken 2 today and I’m felling way better than yesterday. Maybe it’s not going to be so bad after all. I did cut down over the last week or so.

One of my concerns is that I still have chronic pain from 2 back surgeries and I don’t know what to do about that. All the doc. Want’s to do is give me PILLS…but no more!!!!!!!!…I’m done with that for ever…I’m getting my life back. I will not be controlled again by anything are anyone!!!!!!!!!!!

[percsnomas]

Welcome Jack!!!
and congrats on making it into Day 2...
You're main concern, about "residual" back pain, was exactly the same concern i had prior and during giving up percs; after my 2 back surgeries.
Next Tuesday will be 3 complete months off opiates, and my back feels great.....During the first couple weeks, it ached like crazy, but with Naprosyn and Hot tubs, I've kept everything in check. What were your procedures?

[Starraven]

Can you email me, I have a question.  (concerning my dad and his back problems, identical to your back problems)  ***@****

Thanks
Suze

[Starraven]

Can you email me, I have a question.  (concerning my dad and his back problems, identical to your back problems)  ***@****

Thanks
Suze

[Starraven]

email is ***@**** nn's.  Thanks a bunch!

[Sparkyswife]

Keep looking for a doctor who knows his left from his right.  Took my husband and I over 15 years to find one - head of neurosurgery at Froedtert Medical Center, part of Wisconsin Medical College, in Milwaukee WI.  He's sought after by folk from all over the world.  8 other doctors said "we don't see a problem".  One of them THREW US OUT OF HIS OFFICE because of how my husband "looked" - thin and wan and uncomfortable like he wanted some pain meds.  

Go figure.

But the Wizard doctor saw my husband, flipped his MRIs around like Tom Cruise in COCKTAIL, looked at 'em quickly  and said to us, "oh, that thing has to come out, and soon!"

When they opened my husband up, the damaged disk FELL onto the operating table. So much for the slanted opinions of the M-Deities who said there was nothing wrong.

The nerve was pinched for 15 years - nerves regenerate at a rate of 1 millimeter per day at the fastest - so it would take 3 1/2 years for the nerve from the spine on down the leg to regenerate - and THEN was when it really starts to hurtin'.  

Also, re the Ultram thread:  Ultram was invented to replace narcotics and touted as non addictive.  It produces a distinctively different feeling, almost an aura, but to my experience it does not control pain worth a hoot.  My doctor gave it to me so I didn't have to take "addictive" stuff.  18 months later tests prove it is every bit as addictive as hydrocodone and all the rest, and now they make it in as Ultracet, the ultram version of percs.

Obviously it works for some, else the Ultram addiction threads wouldn't be here......

Mitzpah -

[puma]

Sparkswife,

I am not sure if you are the same one, but I seem to remember your name from several years ago. I remember you getting flamed. Read on here, and get the laugh of a lifetime with these drunks and drug addicts like myself flaming away. It seems the more flaming time involved, the funnier and more ludicrous it gets. Have a good laugh.

Sorry I could not help back then but suggest alanon. Take care.

Charahan.....wildcat