buprenex tapering

hi all - i hope everyone is having a nice memorial day...i'm hoping to plant at least part of my veg garden today.  i have an appt with a carpal tunnel specialist this week - finally!  it's getting to the point where i can't do the things i like, so i can't put off surgery much longer. altho - one of my friends used acupuncture, and she hasn't had any problems with it since.  i'll probably check that out before i schedule surgery....anybody else out there have this problem?

anyway, i was wondering if anyone out there has had much success with buprenex tapering?  if so, how long was the process and at what rate did you taper?  i've heard the process can be almost painless if done the right way, but i've been having the same problem with it as i did vicodin and percs.  my intentions to taper are there, but i end up taking more than i should.  i don't get a "buzz" from it, so i DO NOT understand why i continue like this.  for me, it is very addicting. am i the only one? my dr. suggests i use this for "maintenance" and then use it as needed for pain.  i'm not sure if i can use it on an as needed basis...any suggestions out there?  

i hope you all are doing ok - i see there are lots of new members - welcome to you all:)

[skipper]

groovy:
it seems i read (and not too long ago) on another thread that the
stadard bup taper is go down 1/4 ampule every 2 days until you
taper down to the point where your doing 1/4 amp twicw a day. it
sounds simple enough...good luck!

when my neuro-surgeon ran all the tests before operating on me,it
came to light that i have (among other things wrong) carpal tunnel
in both wrists/hands. i really trust the hand surgeon (he's the
best in a 3 state area), plus he skipped that course in med-school,
you know the one that teaches people how to be arrogant assholes!
anyhow, i guess carpal tunnel surgery is somewhere down the road.
i've always heaard its best to ge both hands done at once. a friend
at work had done on a friday morning and was back at work on mon-
day. of course he "decided to take a few days rest," before he got to mid-afternoon.

anyhow, don't delay...get the carpal tunnel delt with. i've never
heard anyone that expressed regretful thoughts about the operation!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[groovygirl]

thanks for your input, and i'm sorry to hear about your similar situation.  i have heard the opposite - my advice was to have one done at a time.  i'm going to get a second opinion so, i'll see what they have to say.

yeah, the taper isn't as simple as just going down a 1/4 a day...you know how addicts are. i keep putting off the next 1/4 until tomorrow...yeah, tomorrow i'll go down another 1/4, but not today.  it's so hard.

[hippy]

your answer is by witchy woman 3 questions down , 5th answer.
right below.
thank you , ive have had a very restful long weekend.
I hope you are enjoying the holiday.
always nice to read you and skip on the fourm.
my best, to all , hope everyone is doing good.
As far as myself, i am doing good, ive been off the vikes
since good friday ,about 2 months ago. i had a tiring week at work this past week and was feeling very drained, so i decided
to go back to 4000 mg of l-tyrosine like the 1st week i took it, rather than the suggested 2ooo mg after the 1st week . I must say it really gave me a boost, and i feel much better.
I read taht it is the totol amount you are aloud to take.

JB just wanted to send my best to you on this holiday, it is
close to my heart , being that i lost an older brother  in the war in 1967. and a great grand father at iwo jima. i was loooking
at thier purple hearts,yeaterday. also i was watching the history channel and it stirred up a lot of emotion. to say the least it's not a happy weekend, as far as thinking of them.

peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! michael higgins

[tex3]

Hi Groovy. Sorry you're not feeling well. I quit the bup cold turkey a few times but also switched to norco at the end. A few times I took more than I was supposed to, until I realized there was no point to doing so. I have to go but will write more later; sorry I couldn't answer now but will do so. Hope you feel better...
tracy

[OxyDout]

Hey Groovy, so you want to taper, come on, its easy, god, how can you sit there and say "its not that simple" suck it up!!! hahaha, just kidding, you know as well as I do and everyone else for that matter, that tapering is extremely difficult.  I think its hard for you to stop because the bup makes you feel so normal,  you  know?  You really have to want to do this, you can't go about it any other way, you have to give 150%.  Instead of taking it before you get any kind of pain or wd symptom, you have to hold off until you really feel like you can't take it anymore, then you take some more bup, but not that much, you have to keep doin this until you really are almost down to nothing.  I know its tough, but I went back and forth with vicoden and methadone when I was detoxing and I finally made the commitment and I'm feeling great.  Keep your head up high and stay strong, I know you an do this!!!

GWH

[Tessa]

saw your post regarding carpal tunnel.  I just had the surgery done one month ago.  My doctor did first one on friday, then the next one two weeks later.  I'm sure doing them both at the same time SOUNDS like a good idea, but,trust me, unless you have someone with you for the first two days to bathe you, feed you and wipe your butt (funny ha ha, but true) etc, don't do both at the same time.  Like I said, I did one at a time and found the above extremely difficult--NO WAY could I deal with having no hands for two days!!!  Not sure if the docs explained the postop to you, but you have a bandage wrapped around your hand (about the size of a cantaloupe!) that you can't get wet or move very much.  And it hurts!!
Most of this sounds terrible, but I'm really glad I had the surgery done! No more pain!!  (for my hands anyway!)  

[Tessa]

I guess my last post was for you as well!  Sorry, I tend to jump around a lot when reading these threads and I miss info.  Anyway, I highly recommend the carpal tunnel surgery.  I had the first one done march 15th and the second april 5th (I guess that's three weeks,not two!!)  Just checked my calendar. So, I was wrong, I'm about two months postop.  Anyway, my hands are finally pain free!!  Which is great being that I work on a computer all day!  I also have a 10 month old baby girl who wants to be picked up all the time!!  Now I can do those day-to-day things like everyone else without the pain.
When I went to see my specialist, I already made up my mind that I wanted the surgery (my cousin had it with no complications). Also, the doctor said that he had not had any recurrences.

Now, this may sound really stupid, but what exactly is buprenex? What does it do?  What is it given for?
Thanks

[lifeisbetter]

Hi, I can tell you a little about the buprenex. It is used for pain management or for detox. You can use it as a maintenance med for chronic pain. You can take it sublingually or by injection (ask Kip if you can take it in pill form). Not sure what the rules are for each state. In Florida you can go to a pain specialist for a prescription. I used it to wean off of Oxycontin and I hated it. Honestly, I knew I was quitting the Oxys so I figured I would go out with a bang and enjoy my last few days before the rapid detox I did. It did keep me from withdrawel but did not help with the depression and lethargy I always get.
How are you doing otherwise? Still beating yourself up? I hope not. As you can tell by all the posts there are alot of moms here who have been and are going through the same stuff as you. I know how tough it is to quit. You can do it when you want to badly enough.

[tex3]

I'm really sorry you're still suffering. If I was still in chronic pain that I couldn't handle, I would certainly consider using bup as a maintenance drug. It's definitely better than the other options!
But if you do want to taper, have you thought of using clonidine (under your doctor's care, of course) to help with the WD? Is the WD more physical or mental? Or both? My physical WD was very, very mild, but I did suffer the depression and lack of energy, which hit me much quicker. I think that was because I wasn't so overcome with the physical WD that I noticed it more. But again, I didn't taper; I just quit. I think this drug hits people in different ways, as most do. What drug did you use before the bup?
I hope you get some relief from both of these problems. Please let me know if I can help. I have a horrid headache right now and am going to lay dow. A bup would be a godsend but will stick with my damn aspirin and outrageously expensive Imitrex!
Tracy

[skipper]

Tessa:

doesn't matter for me. i'm not going to do anything about carpal
tunnel in the near future. in fact i've no plans to have any sur-
gury this year or next. see in the past 2 summeres i've had spi-
nal surgerys and thats enough time under the knife for anyone.
besides seeing a pain doc for intractable pain, i have no plans
to see many other doctor. i know about the "big bandage," as i've
had a finger amputation done twice. there is a new, less invasive
method for carpal tunnel surgery, but it may not work out in
all cases. anyhow let's hope groovy gets a move on and does what
has to to be done real soon!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[yough]

Besides CLONIDINE, is there anything else I can take that is not equally addictive to relieve the symptoms of Buprenex withdrawal?  
I have been on Bup maintenance for 2 years after a 20 year addiction to pain pills.  OxyContin, and turning 40, brought me to my knees and made me change my ways.  I always thought that I would take Buprenex indefinitely, but I know that I would be much happier without that cloud over me.  For instance, I was hospitalized last March with double lumbar pneumonia, I was practically incoherent.  Still, I was terrified that I would not be able to get my Bup. before withdrawal set in.  When my husband told the hospital staff that I needed this med - they wanted to send me up to the detox ward.  We sneaked it in, but the whole experience was embarrasing.
Currently, I'm out, and have been for 2 days.  My next order will be here day after tomorrow.  For the last two weeks I was tapering pretty fast because I knew that I was going to run out.  Now, I have all the usual symptoms of opioid withdrawal.  The severity of my symptoms have not rendered me NON-FUNCTIONAL, but I really don't feel well at all.
Are there any herbal remedies that take the edge off the fatigue and achyness?  Anything to compensate for what's missing now that Bup. is not there?  When I get my order on friday, I am committed to continueing a reasonable tapering schedule.   I would like to know if anyone has found anything that makes this process less disruptive to normal life.  Otherwise, I don't know if I'm strong enough to do this.  I'd like to think so, but after 20+ years, I am realistic.

[groovygirl]

hi - you are the first person (besides me) i've met who has had trouble getting off buprenex - i am also on a taper schedule but have trouble sticking to it.  how much do you take per day?

[angst]

there is a recipe floating around in the posts or archives for a
vitamin and mineral, plus other things that help you while detox
and recovering.  i do not have it handy.  although, i have it written down somewhere.  i will look for it. maybe one of the old timers will read and help you out.  i will look around my computer desk or it.  good luck.  you can see a doctor for clonidine, a long acting benzodiazipine (careful here, they are addictive, only if taken longer than needed), immodium or lomotil
for the stomach ills, and i think that is about it.  drink plenty
of gatorade to keep you electrolytes from leaving with the diarrhea.  you need to stay hydrated.  good luck.  you can do this.  most of the people on the forum have.

[oh please already]

i have to tell u that clonidine is a amasing drug for me at least- i have high blood pressure so for me it was just getting a switch.they had done reserch on detox and withdrawl (withdrawal) and to treat the increased blood pressure of the detoxing some one noticed that it also seemed to lessen what i call the heebee jeebjee,that skin crawling feeling and it really did 4 me.I wasnt jumping out of my skin and all jerky with spatic movement.PLUS when i was taking it ,i didnt even think about smoking-just never crossed my mind and if i did put a cicerrette in my mouth it just wasnt pleasent,they also are using it for nicotic withdrawl (withdrawal) as well as opiates.Dont get me wrong,detox SUCKS  but it wasnt so horrable without my skin crawling  but u have to repect the fact its a heart controling agent and not f%$# with it  definaly worth a try if your blood pressure can handle it and its ok with your md- it also makes u VERY dizzy if you get up too fast or move too fast so get used to it before u drive or do anything dangerous           peace to all   laura

[lifeisbetter]

Meagain is right. Clonidine can bottom out your blood pressure. Do not take extra but it does help with some of the symptoms. I have heard alot of people (including myself) complain of wicked headaches after stopping the clonidine. It may have something to do with its vasodilating properties, meaning it opens the arteries wider to increase blood flow, hence the lowering of the blood pressure. I wonder if Dr. Steve could answer that.

[oh please already]

clonidine is a antihypertensive- USE WITH GREAT CARE AND ONLY WITH A DOCTOR SUPERVISION  as it will drop your blood pressure,make u dizzy and u dont want to be driving or operating any big machine.this is not a drug where 1 more will make it better- it could cause real major heart,brain effects. dont play with it .Klonopin with a k is for stress. people have died mixing them up

[trump]

Vicodin is a hard drug to get off of. I used it for 5 years and never exceeded the prescribed dosage but when I went to quit I got very sick. (increasing restlessness, dilated pupils, piloerection, watery eyes, runny nose, yawning, sweating, tremor, irritability, anorexia, and cramping of the stomach, as well as muscle and joint pain) I went through a procedure called rapid-detox. They put you under anethesia for 6 hours and use a drug called naloxone to remove the opiate from your system. Naloxone usually makes on very ill but since your under anethesia you don't know about it. After the rapid-detox I felt like I had the flu for about 5 days and have been off the Vicodin ever since (8 months)
Trump

[angst]

thanks for informing us more about the rapid detox.  since this is my 2nd time on methadone in 4 to 5 years, i may be looking for something like that when i'm ready to get off the methadone.
i'm not ready yet.  the street is still too close for me.  i need more counselling, group, and methadone.  excuses, excuses.  well, those who want to judge, can start calling me Excuses.  i will stick with angst.  your way of detoxing is expensive?  about how much did you pay?  if you do not mind disclosing the amount.   Ava

[tex3]

Hi groovy. I'm so sorry you have to suffer through this. Bup for me was great and didn't seem addictive, although I did have mild withdrawal when I quit. I also had depression but when I finally quit it was because my doctor put me back on Norco, so I honestly don't know if all of that would have lasted. I'm quite sure the mental stuff would have, at least. I never tried to taper so can't speak to that. But I think any drug in this class could be very addictive for some of us, depending on our body chemistry and other factors.
I wish you the best during your battle and hope your weekend is as painless as it can be. Are you using bup for pain or for addiction, or both? Just wondering if you will have the pain issue to deal with, on top of everything. I'll be sending good thoughts your way as you detox and truly hope things look up for you. I'm sorry you've had to struggle on the bup and wish you the best.

[groovygirl]

whoever said that buprenex is not addicting for them is a very lucky person.  i have been struggling with the tapering of it for months, and i have decided to just stop.  i cannot do the tapering...don't have the willpower for it.

i took my last one this morning, and now i am gearing up for the days ahead of sweating, shaking - you all know the score.

i am so sick of being sick - i don't even know if i can make it thru one more detox.  this stuff (for me) is just as addicting as any other opiate i've taken, and the detox is just as harsh.

my inlaws are coming over for dinner tonight, so it's not great timing, but i just have to do it NOW. i am so envious of all of you out there who have made it thru to the other side.  i thought i was doing right with the bup, but it turns out i was just putting off the inevitable.  

i hope everyone has a good weekend - i really appreciate and have grown to depend on your support - you are the best!

[lifeisbetter]

Hey...are you doing ok? hang in there!

[dunit]

I am also taking Bup, for 3 months. I don't know why, but I should have stopped 1 month ago. ( 1/4 amp ess every 3 days)but I really don't  feel like stopping. Maybe it's the pain when it's bad, maybe I'm afraid of life with no drugs! Or just a chicken. Although I am determined to stop this month. I am down to 1 3/4 Amps a day. Been on thomas's recipe for the entier time.
I'm gonna try my best, this is my 1st experience on Bup after almost 20 years on opiats.

[groovygirl]

hi - i have a bunch of questions for you if you are up to it...are you involved with some kind of clinic that prescribes the bup?  are you still tapering even tho you said you should have stopped a month ago?  i have major depression every time i stop...i'm having a really hard time quitting it entirely.  every one i've talked with says it is NOT addicting, and there is no withdrawal...i have experienced different for sure.  i just wanted to find out more about your experience with it.  if you have anything to add, please do.  thanks a bunch!!

[angst]

in my advice to yough, i was dividing the drugs with commas, any additional information was in parenthesis.  i know clonidine is an antihypertensive which also keeps the drugs from rushing out of the system all at once.  the patch seems to work best.  i then told about a long term benzo but did not name one. klonopin and ativan are both long acting.   clonidine for bp and klonopin for nerves sound a lot alike.  i was trying to distiguish between the cocktail given at the ER.  i guess my definition ran too closely together for safety.  forgive me.   Ava

[jimmy s]

i'm having a big WD problem with buprenex. can't taper cause i enjoy it too much. i did lose my desire to drink alcohol, but i would like to be drug free. any suggestions would be helpful. a pharmecist said to try benedryl. i don't think it worked very good.

[lucho]

Nice!  It's good to see that I'm not alone here.  I went thru a 10 day in-patient detox from Oxycontin 80mgs 3 times daily about 2 years ago.  I swore to myself that I would never touch anything that contained an opiate ever again, and I actually made it for 4 months.
  Then it happened; I couldn't handle the break up of my 4 year relationship with my girlfriend. I felt desperate and that I had no reason to go on.. So I gave in.  In South Florida, where I live, you can literally walk in to at least 6 different 'pain management clinics', provide any records of past injury, and ask for practically any drug to numb your pain and anxiety.  For me it was a Lorcet/ Dilaudid/ Xanax combo that the doctor wrote for over 1 year.
  The drugs began to take their toll again, so I decided to ask my pain doc for an alternative.  He prescribed me Buprenex & switched me from Xanax 4mg/daily to Klonopin 4mgs/daily.  I suppose, that in a twisted way, I am lucky that my insurance covers this med 100%, Bup is not cheap.  In 12 hours, I went from taking 60 mgs of Hydrocodone and 10 mg of Hydromorphone daily, to injecting 4-5 vials of Buprenex daily - - no withdrawl (withdrawal) symptoms.  In fact, after 3 days of being on this new med, I began to feel 'normal' for the first time in years.  It took away all desire to overuse (even with the Klonopin to a slight degree).  But I am rambling.
  Plain and simple, Buprenex is an addictive narcotic.  Dope is dope is dope.  It is not a way out of whatever it is you are taking for pain and/or pleasure.  Do not fool yourself as I did, although I am probably preahing to the converted.
  I now have to sneak around and find places to inject myself no matter where I am, at work, downtown, at a friend's house.  I understand that I will now have to go into an in-patient detox again to get off of this drug - - for me there is no tapering, unless I am forced to.  I also realize that I am severely addicted to the Klonopin (my current benzo of choice), and that am I going to take a massive one-two punch.
  If this post seems all to pathetic, it's because it is.  The only way to keep off of this $#!+ is to not take it.  Nobody wants to hear that, I know I don't, but we all know that this is the truth.  Anyways, I appreciate this space to unload a bit of background and experience.  I can only hope that if you are considering Buprenex as a way out, think twice.  You are just substituting one problem with another.  Godspeed.

[lucho]

Nice!  It's good to see that I'm not alone here.  I went thru a 10 day in-patient detox from Oxycontin 80mgs 3 times daily about 2 years ago.  I swore to myself that I would never touch anything that contained an opiate ever again, and I actually made it for 4 months.
  Then it happened; I couldn't handle the break up of my 4 year relationship with my girlfriend. I felt desperate and that I had no reason to go on.. So I gave in.  In South Florida, where I live, you can literally walk in to at least 6 different 'pain management clinics', provide any records of past injury, and ask for practically any drug to numb your pain and anxiety.  For me it was a Lorcet/ Dilaudid/ Xanax combo that the doctor wrote for over 1 year.
  The drugs began to take their toll again, so I decided to ask my pain doc for an alternative.  He prescribed me Buprenex & switched me from Xanax 4mg/daily to Klonopin 4mgs/daily.  I suppose, that in a twisted way, I am lucky that my insurance covers this med 100%, Bup is not cheap.  In 12 hours, I went from taking 60 mgs of Hydrocodone and 10 mg of Hydromorphone daily, to injecting 4-5 vials of Buprenex daily - - no withdrawl (withdrawal) symptoms.  In fact, after 3 days of being on this new med, I began to feel 'normal' for the first time in years.  It took away all desire to overuse (even with the Klonopin to a slight degree).  But I am rambling.
  Plain and simple, Buprenex is an addictive narcotic.  Dope is dope is dope.  It is not a way out of whatever it is you are taking for pain and/or pleasure.  Do not fool yourself as I did, although I am probably preahing to the converted.
  I now have to sneak around and find places to inject myself no matter where I am, at work, downtown, at a friend's house.  I understand that I will now have to go into an in-patient detox again to get off of this drug - - for me there is no tapering, unless I am forced to.  I also realize that I am severely addicted to the Klonopin (my current benzo of choice), and that am I going to take a massive one-two punch.
  If this post seems all to pathetic, it's because it is.  The only way to keep off of this $#!+ is to not take it.  Nobody wants to hear that, I know I don't, but we all know that this is the truth.  Anyways, I appreciate this space to unload a bit of background and experience.  I can only hope that if you are considering Buprenex as a way out, think twice.  You are just substituting one problem with another.  Godspeed.