can paxil, lorazapam and buspar cause major personality changes?

[cacy]

My husband started taking 30mg of paxil, buspar and 1 mg of lorazapam 3 times a day in October.  Since then life has been
insane.  He says he isn't addicted, but continues to take all of these drugs prescribed by a psychiatrist with only 3 month checks.  We have separated and he denies anything is wrong.  After all of the research I have done, this is scary..Why isn't anyone informed of the dangers of these drugs??  What is the possibility of stopping these...He says he is perfectly normal and everyone says he isn't.  What can be done...He is a drastically different person than before and I seem to be the only one very concerned...He also drinks 2-3 drinks a night and says I am over reacting to the change of personality.  
What is the logical step trying to convince him it is addictive.
What can be done to get his psychiatrist to stop this?? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
CACY

[Witchywoman]

Hi Cacy,
Can you be more specific about the personality changes that you have observed? That would help me try to respond. I work in a Psych clinic.

From the meds that you listed, my guess is that he was diagnosed with an Anxiety disorder. The only medication of the three that you listed (Paxil, Lorazepam, and Busbar) that is addictive is the Lorazepam. It is otherwise known as ativan. It is a benzodiazepam and definately can create physical and psychological addiction.  The Paxil and Busbar are well know meds that treat both anxiety and depression, and tend to stabilize people, not make them worse, but..everyone's system is different.  Your husband should not be drinking on these meds.  Alcohol will pretty much stop the Paxil from working, and can be very dangerous in combination with the lorazepam.
Paxil can also make some people who have bipolar disorder have a manic episode. Is this part of what is going on with him?

Please give us a bit more information, and maybe I can be more specific.  The Psychiatrist should be informed of any dangerous behavior.

good luck!
WW

[katie r]

Today as been a bad day for me. I have uncontrolable crying and deep depression. It's only noon...so I hope the rest of the day gets better. I scored some more vicadin....now I'm down to 4.....again. What a vicious cyle this is. Can't live with them and can't live without them. Think I'll go back and curl up in bed. Maybe things will look better later.

[Witchywoman]

Hi Katie, I'm glad you posted..I was starting to worry about you.
The fact that you posted, that you keep coming back to us, is a good sign. I know the despair that you feel, the inability to moderate the med use..most of us here know exactly what you are going through.
The important thing is that you posted, you reached out, and I want you to know that we are here for you no matter what.

I remember when I first started posting here, I honestly did not think I was going to be able to stop using. At first I didn't think I could stop due to the pain. But part of me also knew I just plain ol' didn't want to stop. Then, when I began to want to stop, I was terrified that I wouldn't be able to deal with the withdrawals. I went back and forth with myself around this for a long, long time. Hell, even before my back pain was bad, I knew I was badly addicted and should stop, but had no desire to or intention of it, though I tried a few times and couldn't. I just stayed stuck in that cycle. For years. Very nearly lost my marriage, and withdrew from all my friends...I'm just starting to reconnect with friends that I had all but abandoned to the lure of that little white pill.

So Katie, please don't beat yourself up too badly. You are still trying. You are reaching out. Just never give up hope, as Wiz would say "never give up reaching toward the light" no matter how dark things seem now. And please, never think of yourself as a bad person for having this problem. There is always hope, and I think we get a little closer to recovery and learn a little more each time we use.

love,
WW

[katie r]

WW...first of all thanks for the kind words. So? You went thru this too. This feeling of "I'll never be able to break this habit." That's where I'm now. I'm not able and not sure I want to. I enjoy the opiate high so much...I just don't see myself living without it. I always look for advice or help or kind words or even a good laugh from Thomas cause I know he loves opiates as much as I do. I'm scared......what will happen when my supply is gone and there is no other recourse! I can't imaginge life the way it was last week with no lortab. I wanted to climb out out of my skin. I feel so helpless and so hopeless and so very NOT in charge of my life.
Thomas....make me laugh.

[Thomas]

I resent you saying I love opiates as much as you do -- NOBODY loves opiates as much as me!! It's not humanly possible!!

That said, katie r, look under the "5 HTP" thread below. Try my detox recipe, then, do what I do: my doc gives me 90 vics for the month. I indulge like only I can do and burn through them in a tre wonderful 2-3 days. Then I wait the rest of the month for my 90-vic treat. It might not sound good to you now, but this way, I don't go through withdrawal, and when I use, it's like the first time, everytime. You'll function much better, avoid withdrawal, and be able to maintain a real life in between. Of course, if some vics come around a little ahead of time, I'm not one to refuse pharmaceutical hospitality ... but, truly, if you get through withdrawal and then blaze through your supply in a few glorious days each month, you won't develop a tolerance or feel the way you do now. In between rx's, do the L-Tyrosine I recommmend in my withdrawal recipe. It will set you up in fine style ... king of all opiates siging off.

Thomas

[Thomas]

the lorazepam by itself will cause personality changes if used to excess (alas, the only way I know). Add buspar, an anti-anxiety drug (like the lorazepam, but just a different drug family), and those weird-out SSRI's like paxil, and you've got a bigtime personality changing combo. Why is he taking all three of those drugs, anyway? In many ways, Buspar and lorazepam (a valium family drug) overlap and probably potentiate each other more than is healthy. As for the paxil, while I enjoy the 5-HTP for boosting serotonin, the SSRIs give me the creeps.

The short answer to your question is, obviously, "yes."

Thomas

[IrishRose]

Hi Cacy,

Currently there are some class action lawsuits springing up against the pharmaceutical company that makes Paxil. I can't think of the name of it right, now, but I am checking into this as I have a 23 year old son addicted to Paxil. The drug company deliberately concealed the addictive nature and other problems with this drug. My son started taking it a little over a year ago after becoming depressed following the end of a relationship. He was seen in an emergency room, the psych doc on call prescribed it and my son's regular family practice doc continued it. He was seen by a psychologist only once and never by a psychiatrist other than the ER guy on call. I have been after him to get some help, but he doesn't listen to me. The Paxil changed his personality remarkably. He was always a quiet, kind of shy kid, very creative and smart. He is still smart I guess but he is very outgoing now, which for him has been good in some ways but the few times he has tried to go off it he has experienced horrible symptoms, dizziness, nausea, extreme mood swings. He is seeing a different MD now with a plan to taper him off but I am really afraid for him. Ultimately the use of this drug is his responsibility, but obviously he and many others who have had it prescribed have not had the whole story prior to getting on it or they might not have.

[Danielincc]

I had to comment on your behaviour sir. Why don't you offer some genuine help to the addicts that come here for legitimate help? Instead like the dope fiend you are, you revel in your drug use! You are one sick man and need professional help ASAP. Your techniques your share for preventing withdrawal is further signs of how sick you are. You should offer help to no one until you have proven that you keep your disease in remission.  Sir, you have a serious yet treatable disease! So be a man and get some help! Do not become defensive! Just go deep down inside beyond the DENIAL  do what you know you must do! Get some real help before it is to late! Be Spiritual!(your higher power is waiting) Good Luck!

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I know that you were not attacking Thomas in any way...just giving some helpful advice as a fellow addict.  Well, he does at least make me laugh with some of his honest talk!  Nobody loves opiates as much as he does, it's not humanly possible.  Thomas, me and a lot of other folks here have been through "the mill", so to speak, and are quite used to comments like yours.

When someone asks for advice from a specific person here, they will get it, warts and all. J.B.

[CASEY]

Thomas' ability to laugh at himself and admit his weaknesses don't detract from his sincerity in trying to help others. Anyone in AA or NA knows how destructive it is to judge others. Thomas is finding his own way,and shouldn't be judged and dictated to by the person who reamed him. Regarding Paxil, my son was given it in the er also, following a drug overdose. It is commonly given because it goes into the system more quickly than Prozac or Zoloft, so has quicker effects. However, it also goes out of the system extremely quickly and can cause horrific emotional plummeting if discontinued too quickly. Celexa or Wellbutrin are much less catastrophic if one forgets a dose which depressed people are wont to do. My son almost died when he decided to quit the Paxil. He crashed emotionally, despired, went back to the streets. We were called to the ER at 3:00 am to witness him hallucinating and writhing in emotional pain.. Encourage your son to explore alternatives, please.

[jule1]

I had to respond to your comments to Thomas.  Maybe you do not realize the withdrawls that people can go through once they stop using opiates.  I do not know what your situation is I am not sure if you have shared it or not.  Thomas has helped so many people here who have tried over and over again to withdrawl and finally made it because of him.  What exactly do yo find wrong with that? If it helps people stop using then what is wrong with it?  I truly do not understand what you find offensive.  I hope you find whatever help you need by coming here there is a lot to give and to take.

[cindi]

I was not going to say a word on this one,,,but I had to read what Thomas wrote and follow under my buddy JB,,,,,Thoams has been an opiate addict for many many years by his own admission.....and his ability to find humor in his own faults and weaknesses seem more positive than anything else to me would be more along the lines of denial which is not the image that Thomas has portrayed on this forum as you have indicated.   He is far from being in denail.....His recipe for detox is genuine as he has the tried and true rmemedy to alleviate the uncomfortable symptoms that peopel go through when detoxing,,what is so wrong with trying to help someone out,,,he never told anyone to run from their problems and use...he has never justified his using,,by saying he loves opiates is not really justifying anything...he has never glorified using..what he does with his own being is his business and I see nothing wrong with still being able to offer his timeless insight and genuine concern to those still suffering ,,,and Thomas shows no indication to me that he is truly suffering himself.....he knows what he needs to do....he knows how to do it and he has been here for me and several other members of this forum from what seems the beginning of time for me  (sorry Thomas) and I have him as well as the others for helping to pull me out of the pits of grief and pain several long months ago.......love to all  cin

[katie r]

One of the main reasons I come here is read Thomas's posts. When you're in a situation like I....then, well.....misery loves company. I've been an addict for about 30 years. Thomas finds humor in places I've never looked. He's been honest and we all look to him for advice and humor. His detox recipe has done wonders for some. So if we were to take a vote on who had to leave......I guess it would be you. If you are an addict and need help then read the forum and skip over Thomas's post if his posts bother you. This is a place for honesty and support. We support people while they're using, while they're in withdrawals, and when they think they've  been cured and then again if they end up back using again....which is where I'm at. I have an unnatural love for opiates. It's on my mind day and night. Matter of fact...I'm driving several miles tonight to borrow some from a friend. When I say this in this forum I expect support, sympthy, pity but not the **** you dished out.

[Thomas]

Gosh, I can't imagine why you'd think your comments would make me defensive …  Let's see, I'm sick, diseased, in need of professional help, wrong to try to relieve people's suffering when they withdraw, in DENIAL (no need to shout - I can hear you quite well in lowercase) and, oh yes, not a man. None of that makes me defensive or offends me.

I will say this: despite your comments, I will continue to help people when they ask me for it, whether it's Katie r asking me to make her laugh or someone asking for help handling opiate withdrawal. I will also continue to be honest with people about by unfortunate lust for using. You're too new to the forum to know that my posts about using usually contain as much about what my disease has cost me over the course of my life as they do about my experiencing pleasure from drugs. I find that to be a lot more honest than your last line. I take offense at your wishing me good luck simply because it's so blatantly insincere. I think what really bothers you is that I'm not ashamed of my condition. Refusing to live in shame seems to provoke your kind of response more than anything. Lambasting me, from my disease to my manhood, then wishing me good luck insults my intelligence. Comment all you want but do me one favor: get over your denial about how hostile you are and be honest about it. Instead of wishing me luck, wish me to Hell, prison, the county morgue, or wherever you deem appropriate.

If you want to be one of the posters that simply comes on to tell everyone that they're diseased and need professional help, go right ahead. But you're not telling anyone anything they don't already know or haven't already heard a million times before. I come to this forum because I need somewhere I can go where I can be myself to people who understand. I'm not seeking approval or promoting drug use. I also come here because there are a lot of people suffering needlessly. I will never refuse someone's request for straight answers or help handling withdrawal. Including yours. But I refuse to shout at them, moralize to them, judge them, condemn them, shame them or insult their intelligence. If that bothers you, you'll just have to deal with it or simply stop reading my posts.

Thomas

[niccee]

I don't know what your problem is with Thomas, but not only do I find his information very helpful, I love his sense of humor. I have stated before that a man as eloquent as Thomas does not need me to defend him, but I want to offer my support because he has always been helpful to anyone who asked. If you need help ask him, if not, then don't judge him or anyone else here.

[katie r]

Way to go, Thomas! I'm sooo glad you don't let people like Danielincc keep you from posting. We need you too much, you diseased person. Did you hear me? WE NEED YOU TOO MUCH!
You are the one I look for a post from first. I can't tell you how many times I've been as low as a snakes belly (that's pretty low) and come to this forum and read one of your posts and laughed out loud. My laughing out loud is something I don't hear too often. Crying...yes, but laughing...not too often!
Now if you'll excuse me....I'm going to drive 45 miles to pick up around 20 vicadins. Desperate times calls for desperate measures. Thomas? I forgot that you are diseased and hard of hearing. BYE FOR NOW, MY FRIEND.

[Thomas]

Believe me, any comfort or amusement I've been to you or to anyone on the forum has been returned to me one hundred fold.

To be myself, even in print, and have such friends as you, cindi, angelica, the dean of all addicts J.B., jbear, nicee, witchywoman, milo, the wizard, chad from philly, Francoise and so many, many more, moves me and humbles me. You're all special and irreplaceable, and I treasure all of you.

Have a safe drive both ways, katie r, my friend, and find some peace tonight. God knows, it's in short supply these days.

Thomas

[cindi]

You my friend,,,,are irreplaceable....all of you from the old timers to the new comers of this forum...many many nights and days I have sat at this computer reading your posts of insightful wisdom, humor, delight and even at times...sorrow,,,i have laughed out loud and have cried on the keyboard..and many times I have wanted to reach through this screen and give you a gazillion hugs.....you have never led me to believe anything false or negative about you your friendship and kindness has been nothing but genuine and soul warming and for those of you that have ever doubted that just because this is the "net" it cannot be real..I will fight to the death on this one...I have met more wonderful people on this forum than in my own backyard.....and oneday we will meet,,if not on this earth I know God has a spot for Thomas and the others waiting for them and if I make it to the pearly gates.....i will then give out those gazillion hugs...............PS    Thomas did you get my mail?         Love to all   cin

[Thomas]

Hopefully, we won't have to wait that long for a few hugs ...

I did get your e-mails, by the way. I shall take your advice.

In mentioning my friends on the forum in my last message, I forgot to include Jennyfla in that special list. I know things are tough for her right now. For what it's worth, I didn't mean to leave her out. Sorry for sub-letting your e-mail.


Thomas

[katie r]

Well folks.....I'm home. I drove to my friends and "borrowed" about 20-25 vicadins.
Jbear? I emailed you? Did you get it?
I'm still suffering  severe depression.....but I'm hoping I'll snap out of it soon. For awhile anyway. I know after I get my script filled and finish those off and these I got tonight...I'm gonna be in one hell of a state of mind. My friend also had a few ativans she gave me. So I took a couple of those and a couple vic's and lit a couple of those so called "mood" candles. I'm hoping soon I'll find something to smile about. Usually the vic's would make me grin from ear to ear but now I'm looking beyond...what happens the next time I run completly out. Darn it! The harsh reality of the future is screwing up my present.
This addiction has got ahold of me in such a way that it scares me. Do you realize....nobody knows this....I never had children because I didn't want to stop popping pills long enough to make sure my baby wouldn't be effected. Now how selfish it that???
Do you guys really think there is hope for someone like me?

[Frank Lee]

Hi Katie,

There is hope for us all, and this is a site that will continue to offer it to you. We share the same dragon. I was taking 7 Norocos a day, am now down to 2. I am supplementing with codeine phosphate. You could say I am substituting one Jones for another but the codeine phosphate doesn't give me the euphoria that the Norocos do, just stops the withdrawals. I've been on the Norocos for 5 years. I've also dropped from 6 drinks to 2 a night and found a caring physician who will detox me when I get down to about one or two pills a day. His regimen is interesting and I will share it on the board.

But I ramble. The simple act of posting is reaching out, realizing that you want to come back to the living. I found your note about not having a child poignant. Isn't this drug and our involvement so sad, that we would do that. For me, I feel as if I've been numb to my kids for 5 years. I actually went to soccer practice and watched my son last week, which I could never do before because I had 5 vodkas under my belt.

There is hope. I'll keep you in my thoughts.

Frank Lee

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Yes, there is always hope for any of us no matter how far down we think we are!  Depression and fear are major stumbling blocks for us.  Somehow each of us has to be able to get past this feeling of hopelessness before we can heal ourselves.  Most of us cannot do it alone and need the help of others who have managed to overcome these feelings of frustration.  NA and AA have been helpful to me in the past.  These programs take a lot of effort and time to work.

The Big Book says that some of us are beyond all human help and they are the unfortunate ones.  That means that only God himself can save them.  Are you asking if you are one of these people?

I too have driven many miles to get a few pills in order to feel good for a while.  Last month I got a refill for 150 vicodin ten days early due to my script being rewritten by my PCP.  I was on "cloud nine".  My depression instantly vanished with a pocket full of Vic's!  Sadly, they disappear so quickly.  Each time I look at the bottle the sadness gets a little worse.  What an obsession I have with these little beauties!  Then of course they allow me to be able to walk and work with less pain.  Too bad my tolerance keeps building daily.

Take care, hope for the best and stay with us!  J.B.

[susanlea]

You are strong, wise and above reproach.  Take care my friend, for you are greatly loved.....Susan

[Thomas]

I'm not sure I merit such praise, but I thank you for your friendship and support anyway.

Your friend,

Thomas

[cindi]

I read your post and it sounded as though you are reaching this place where I had been a very long time ago,,wondering if there was any help for me.....I now have such a back injury that i need pain medication to get through my days...and yes when I stop I do go through withdrawals but...many many years ago i used to numb my emotions,,,i saw no way out...i gave in to the fact that if I lived long enough i wold be 94 years old and sitting in my rocking chair shooting anything into my body I could get my hands on...I found hlep...when I got pregnant with my daughter I had been taking maybe 4 lorcets a day....easy to get off of...my 2nd pregnancy I was on probation and clean.....luckily....I have told my story on this board many times..so in order to spare everyone from the details if you want you can email me at ***@**** have some things to talk to you a out...actually,,this is the 3rd time I have tried to post but thanks to good ol AOL I was unable to post......email may be easier...hang in there....you really are not along...love to all cin

[Gina]

I think the reason we can relate to and not be offended by Thomas's remarks is because we understand the love of the "euphoria" that we feel. And even when they don't cause the euphoric feeling anymore we have euphoric recall and that's almost as good. We always hope to feel that way again but we all know how that goes...... Ordinary people think we are nuts about our love of the stuff.  I had some friends tell me how sick they got...My response--"Oh, I'm really sorry to hear that, once they make you sick you can't ever take them, by the way since you can't take them........you can figure out the rest of that conversation. I was just like you Katie r--By the way how old are you? I felt what you feel right now. I am on methadone, never used heroin but my love of the pills was so great that I went through an outpatient detox and stayed clean for about 3 months. I was clean but didn't feel right, ya know like something was missing. I had euphoric recall big time. I am a professional in the mental health field and lost my job due to taking locked meds. It was a horrible embarrassing experience. I paid 2100.00 in fines but was lucky to go through pre-trial intervention and probation for 6 mos. and then waited another 6 mos to hire a lawyer for an expungement. That bill just came 480.00.  Drugs have taken me to lows I never thought of...I am married-he's straight and I have a beautiful 6 yr old (no I didn't use while I was pregnant the abuse started after) I am not an advocate for meth but it has helped me live a "normal" life free of cravings and thinking about IT!!! It is a great way to go but I know all the arguements against it. I just noticed how after you were able to cop those pills 45 mins away your whole demeanor changed. It was like you had already taken some just knowing you were gonna get them!! I know I used to feel the same way!! I found 12 pills one time when I though I was out and was already flyin.  I'm worried about you cause I see myself and I know where I have been. Please e-mail me at ***@**** anytime. This is the first time I ever posted my e-mail address but I feel like I know you..you me not to long ago.. hope to hear from you..

[Danielincc]

My intention was not to anger anyone. I treat addicts on a daily basis. I see the pain that this disease incurs. People I treat really want to be helped. The good majority of these clients go on to live prosperous lives free of the pain of being addicted to opiates and other substances. There are various ways to treat the disease of addiction. There are professionals like myself working very hard to help those who really want help! Coming to a forum like this does nothing to treat the disease. If you people want help, get off your rears and get some real help.
                                                                  Addiction is a like a cancer if you do not get help it will kill you. I know, I have seen it take many good people! The denial I speak of is the denial that you have a disease that can be treated and the denial that if you continue to abuse short acting drugs like thomas abuses his ninety hydrocodones a month it will cause related problems that will take your life eventually.
Good Luck to you ALL!
Ps: If I can beat this killer disease-so can all of You. But it requires help from a professional.

[SHOTSY]

Talk about addiction! I've become addicted to this site. Trying to snatch time here and there to see how all this banter is playing out. You guys are some wonderful people,trying to help each other, and the in squabbling is slightly bothersome. In light of last week's tragedy,remember united we stand-divided we fall. We are more alike than we realize. Of course,EVERYBODY has an opinion.                                                          At any rate I'd like to post a little saying that may help - Sometimes it is the little things that get under our skin and bother us the most.We should try to put things in perspective and hope for the skin of an armadillo.

[Witchywoman]

Hi Daniel,
I too am a mental health professional. I treat all kinds of folks, including some addicts, and I am an addict myself.

This forum was what got me clean. Granted, I am newly clean, only a few weeks. But this is how I did it. The unconditional acceptance no matter what, gave me the space I needed to come out of my denial and make my own decisions about what I needed to do.

I know that if I came here, and was hit with heavy duty helpful advice about how I am in denial and need to stop forever, I would have felt overwhelmed and judged, and would have left and would likely still be using. I know this, because it happened to me on other addiction forums on the web before I found this one.

Your advice may be true for some folks, but I can only speak from my own experience.  It was the love and support of these other addicts, who didn't tell me what to do but gave me the space to learn from their experience, that got me to give up the meds that we slowly destroying my life.

I will say that when I hear others on this board who are able to take the pain  meds now and then, I do begin to hear the whisper of the Dragon, telling me I can now do the same. I get tempted.

But, it is MY responsibility to make the choice about using or not, and I would never in a million years want anyone here to censor their truth, since it was their truth in the first place that helped me get clean. I know that I personally can't use just once in a while without going back down that road, but I can't know whether someone else can or not. Each of us has to make our own choice about that.

I'm all for professional help, don't get me wrong. But, this forum is what got me clean. Period.

love,
WW

[susanlea]

Amen.  You said it all...just right....Susan

[Danielincc]

Getting clean is the easy part> Staying clean is the part that requires an addiction professional. This is basic information that everyone knows in the field. Maybe its time for a tune up on your skills as a mental health worker. This forum may help when detoxing,but professional help is needed to prevent relapse.

[Witchywoman]

Wow.  You know, I can think of several other ways that you could have said what you said that would have been less likely to evoke a defensive response.  I've watched your posts, and am puzzled as to why you seem intent of saying just the very thing that will allienate rather than engage.

Yes, I agree that staying clean is the hard part, and that professional help is an essential tool for most people.  I'm in therapy, and working on staying clean, exclusively.  I find it interesting that you would assume that I am not, and then feel a need to insult me professionally, without knowing anything about me.  If you've read my posts, you'd see that I constantly encourage folks to see therapists and go to meetings.

I am glad I'm not your patient, and hope that you can develop better empathy skills.

I'm done bickering with you..this forum doesn't need antagonistic energy. We are all in this together, trying to support each other is what works.  

WW

[skipper]

Daniel:
I can't speak for anyone else on this forum, but i am really
offended by your manners (lack of) and your attitudes. I guess
the only way you believe one can find recovery from addiction
is to pay an "ADDICTION PROFESSIONAL" such as yourself. One has
to wonder what AA and NA did before professional such as yourself
came along to charge money for what was given away before.

[Kristen]

I was really offended by the insulting things you have said to Thomas, WW and whoever else on here...you were so very quick to judge and point fingers when you dont have a clue about what people have been through on here and what it feels like to be an addict....NONE of us need your criticism and negative thoughts...I will have you know that the people on this forum are what gave me support and strength WHILE I was detoxing....EVERY single one of them was willing to give out email/phone numbers, etc. in all hours of the night if I needed someone to talk to...I dont think ANY doctor is going to do that for me.  I do NOT have medical insurance so I CAN'T pay for psychological help....so I turn to this forum and the support of NA and AA.....I think if you were to go back and READ some of the earlier posts you will see there is alot of healing on this forum....i dont think ANY of us are in DENIAL or we wouldn't be on here spilling our guts....we'd be saying "I'm FINE, I dont have a problem"....but we dont....we share our hopes, dreams, fears, losses, cravings, etc.  with each other and ask for support and knowledge from anyone that can give it...and I personally think WW is a fantastic, smart and VERY bright psychiatrist....she may be a recovering addict, but she has given me some of the GREATEST advice and I think I am where I'm at because of her....If you dont like the way we go about things on this forum...just dont read!!!  What is the saying we all know and love  "if it works, and you work it, then your worth it"...I think ALL of us are doing what works for us!!!  Love to all~~kristen

[ssfr]

wow- it appears you have done the almost impossible- that is offend just about everyone who has spent so much time contributing positively trying to offer help and advice to all who seek it- as one of the "ghosters" of this forum- who feels i have so little to offer, but indeed much to gain and to learn, i am astonished of your criticisms- it is apparent that you have spent very little time looking at the various posts of the past, and even less time analysing the heart felt advice given so freely here- my fervent hope is that you will be able to turn your negative energy into a positive flow- as a health provider, you have an inherent obligation to contribute in other ways than to simply criticize, and to state that the only salvation is to elicit the services of so-called professionals- that is simply not an option for so many who visit this forum- i hope to read more from you- but hope you refrain from personal attacks that are of little or no help to anyone.

[skipper]

SSFR:
about your post above-i guess i have a little problem. i spent some
time doing the ghost thing. if that is what your most comfetable
doing, well thats fine, but please don't pass judgement on your
self. what i mean to say is i guess it bothers me to hear you say
that you "have so little to offer." i would be very reluctant to
pass that sort of judgement on someone else. I think you have as
much to offer this forum as anyone else!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[Witchywoman]

Hi there Kip,
I just wanted to check in and ask you how you are doing these days? How is your pain level?
Just wanting to send you good vibes.  :-)

and ssfr, I think Kip is right on the money.  You do have a lot to offer, and I love to see you post.  

love,
WW

[ssfr]

this will be might last post for a few days- but i wanted to take the opportunity to thank you for the kind words and thought-i do not suffer from an inferioity complex or any such thing- but when i stated that i felt i had little to offer- what i mean is that- the extreme pain i have from degenerative joint disease- well just about everyone hear suffers from some physical pain- there is little i can offer there-  most folks here either have battled or are battling, or are going to battle the horrible effects of withdraws- again- i have no unique situation here-  many participants in this forum have offered supplements that supposedly will help alleviate withdrawal symptoms- for those folks i indeed thank you- but sadly- i have no additional advice to offer- to make this long story short- i just cant seem to see the benefit of repeating my problems that so many others have stated time and again- rather i gain strength and encouragement from reading what others have to say- if i find a new medical breakthough that will help all others- here would be the first place that info would be posted-  so--- hopefully you will understand that i will continue to "ghost" here-

although i do hope you wont mind if i pop in everynow and then just to say hi, and that i have been thinking of you- i will have access to a computer in a couple of days-

thanx again to everyone for their nice words and sentiments-

[Thomas]

Witchywoman re: Danielincc

I am finished directly addressing the grotesque Danielincc, but I must applaud you, my increasingly intriguing WW, for the superhuman restraint you showed in your last response to him. If he had ever displayed enough humanity on this forum to inspire me to care, I'd almost pity him for being so totally blind to the hostility, contempt and fear he demonstrates for the poor, poor people he claims to treat. Can you imagine going to a "professional" in the vulnerable, anguished state of mind most addicts are in at the point where they finally ask for help -- and then getting a person like Danielincc for your therapist? I've never read posts so openly venomous as these are. Imagine allowing a malignancy like this to actually influence your self-image at a time when you lacked the inner confidence, family support or objectivity to question what you were hearing? Quite honestly, WW, I shudder to think of the damage this person has already gotten away with under the guise of being a "professional." How can someone hate the way this person does and not even know it? This is not meant as rhetoric, WW. I genuinely want to know what you think, because I can't remember a poster who disturbed, depressed and, I'll admit it, angered me the way this poster has.

All I can do is fight him by redoubling my efforts to love and support those who write me for help or for straight answers. Despite being married for 18 years and being the proud father of a beautiful son attending his third year at Cal State Long Beach University, I have always been a relatively solitary person. However, that has never stopped me from drawing from the deep well of compassion I feel for the addict among us who still suffers. My answer to haters like Danielicc is to love my fellow addict without reservation, to make a safe harbor of my heart where, man and woman, boy and girl, old and young, black, yellow, brown and white will never be judged or diminished, never be shamed or dismissed.

Love is the only weapon that will defeat the efforts of a poster like Danielicc, and I mean to defeat him by countering his intolerance with a torrent of love and respect against which no prejudice can prevail.

I can only pray that Danielincc's dark cloud moves on to doom another web site and leaves the good souls of this forum to their work - spreading tolerance and understanding while articulating the joy of our common struggle and sacrifice.

Your Friend,

Thomas

[Shea]

THOMAS...That last post was truly eloquent! And you used such dipolmacy. Diplomacy meaning..having the abilty to tell someone to go to hell and have them look forward to the trip. I applaud you sincerely.

May your kindness, wisdom, experience and compassion continue to ease the pain of others on this forum.


Shea

[Witchywoman]

Thomas you pose some good questions. I can only speculate as to what might drive someone to post such thinly veiled hostility under the guise of trying to be helpful.

See...from what I understand about how therapy works, addiction therapy or any kind, the *key* to its success is the quality of the relationship between the therapist and client. The research (as well as common sense) indicates that clients who feel accepted, understood, and not judged have a much better chance of a successful outcome.

Professionals who bully clients or shame them make things worse. Way worse. Most, if not all, therapists are unconciously trying to resolve their own issues through working in this field. The good therapists understand this, and do enough of their own internal work so as to not project their issues onto their clients.
Then there are those who feel they have "The One and Only True Right Way". These folks apply a formula to the client, rather than be guided by the unique needs of each client to structure the correct approach. Some clients need a no bullshit hardline approach, others need gentler interventions..most need a combination. But I'll tell you this...addicts are the most sensitive clients I've ever worked with. An addict, or the adult child of an addict, can tell almost instantly if you are a genuine trustworthy therapist. Those with any self esteem left will run from the shaming therapists (and often be blamed for being "non compliant"), but sadly many stay because they see no other choice.

I think that dear ol' daniel has got some hostility for any addict that is not doing recovery the way he thinks recovery should be done.

Thomas, you and the rest of the crew here have done more for me in my recovery than any therapist I have ever seen (and I've seen a lot). You are right. It is the relentless love, tolerance and non judgementalism that is the key to coping with this disease, not the shaming and finger wagging. It blew my mind to find that on this site, despite admiting I was an addict, I was given compassion and respect. I felt like the scum of the earth, and here I was being given respect!!! That torked my poor lil brain enough to crack open some hope of love and light taking over in the darkness of my addiction. And is seems it has.

I did almost blow my top when I read his last post to me, but managed to remember my serenity prayer, and not give into the flaming that I wanted to write him.
Folks who evoke that kind of intense emotional response are usually projecting their **** onto others, in my experience.

Now, I suppose I'll get called a bad therapist by Daniel again. That is ok.  His opinion of a stranger typing into a computer is not something I'm going to let affect me anymore.

Now...let move on to spreading the seeds of tolerance, respect, and compassion! Yeeeehaw!!!

love,
WW

[Thomas]

I love you WW ... that's all I wanted to say. You're wonderful.

Thomas

[Witchywoman]

awwwww now I'm blushing! lol

Thanks Thomas.  I love you too. Thanks for being you.

your ally in "operation respect for addicts"

WW

[cindi]

You both were truly eloquent...In thses days when I have such **** hanging over my head I could not have been so tactfull...been very irritable altely and it shows....hats off to the both of you.......love cin

[silverfox]

i have a friend taking zoloft for depression and also lorazapam for sleep due to a lot of stress. alcohol is also a factor here. can these two drugs together cause personality changes and what effect does drinking have in all of this.  

thanks
silverfox

[silverfox]

i have a friend taking zoloft for depression and also lorazapam for sleep due to a lot of stress. alcohol is also a factor here. wondering whether these two drugs together cause personality changes and what effect does drinking have in all of this.  

thanks
silverfox

[silverfox]

i have a friend taking zoloft for depression and also lorazapam for sleep due to a lot of stress. alcohol is also a factor here. wondering whether these two drugs together cause personality changes and what effect does drinking have in all of this.  

thanks
silverfox

[surrey]

Hello, I have been on paxil 20mg for 4 mos. and I am doing much better. My doc. want to take me off in Dec. That would make a total of 4 mos. After reading all the bad side affects on line during weaning, I'm really worried about what I may go through. It make me want to stop right away. I s there anyone here that went on paxil for anxiety and panic attacks that got off sucessfully, without extreme side affects.