Aa
chronic pain
When people say chronic pain and nothing else it limits the responses to pain meds usually narcotic. If the source of the chronic pain is told then people with the same problem may give ideas for temporary relief thru other means,,for instance I"ve had multi back surgerys and can tell things that did or didnt work for me but only if I know that the persons pain comes from problems similar to mine.I realize that this is an addiction forum but a large percent of the posters have become addicted or dependant thru chronic pain issues and when and if they overcome the narcotic problem those issues will still be there. merry xmas to all
Oh boy, this post for the first time has left me speechless and unable to give advice. You got the best of what I thought could be done by Christos. As Worried said I am a chroinc painer myself and got hooked. I was on iv dilaudid (pca) not to get into details for my privacy, but long enough that I withdrew from that first I believe than tapered the oxys and jumped to sub. Tough predicament. Have you ever seen the show "Intervention" on A&E? Well, their was a certain episode on about two months ago of a young woman that was diagosed with rheumatoid arthritis. She CLEARLY was taking too much, doctor shopping etc. Her family banned her from important family events etc. Clearly, this young woman was severly disabled. Barely being able to get off the curb. No joke. Her family finally called the show and did the documentary. When the intervention came at the end, a very smart doctor came on that explained many aspects of why CP patients over do the meds. I will not got into details. However, he made the family realize what she was going thru and he had a special retreat, rehab center that dealt with VERY SEVERE addictions. dependency and chronic pain. I believe it was in Colorado. I may be wrong though. Would not hurt to go on their website, write them and ask about this center. This doctor is committed to helping people with pain overcome their issues either with less addictive or abusable narcotics or use alternative treatment. hope that helps. I really understand your dilemma.
God Bless and keep us informed,
ProdigalGirl
God Bless and keep us informed,
ProdigalGirl
I would have to agree with everyone about chronic pain-details, details, details..
To JDrennan- My absolute sympathies go out to you and your daughter and acredation goes out to you for your strangth to stick by your daughter through this terrible situation. How was daughter found to get chronic pancreatitis? was there the possibility of excessive drinking or abuse of certain drugs at all? I know this does not change anything or answer any of your questions, but it would give me a better idea of what should help you and your daughter...I do think it is time, and you know quite a bit being a RN for as long as you ahve been, but look around your region I mean even out of state if necessary to find the best set of doctors your daughter can find, other than the ones she ahs now telling her to go "cold turkey" off the large amount of potent opioids she has been exposed to regularily. The doctor and patient have to mesh and click together and everyone including the family have to all be on the same page. Now the current doctors have they taken every measure they possibly can to lessen the amount of times your daighter's chronic Pancreatitis worsens? The Lortabs(hydrocodone) are not a heavy opioid, still addictive, but no where comparable to the Dilaudid IV. The Dilaudid(Hydromorhpone,3-6times more potent than Heroin) is in a junkies eyes "the ultimate" and your daughter being on it for several weks per month for a year, she is both dependant and addicted to the hydromorphone and the hydrocodone. It is sad seeing as your daughter did not choose to have the situation given to her in no way. I was severely and heavily addicted to snorting both Heroin and Oxycontin for two and half years. it destroyed me and my families lives. It ruined every friendship I once thought I had had and every relationship that could have been. I was enslaved to brown powder and a green pill, any and all control lost. Now me and your situations are obviously different, but similar in that there was no way any doctor would tell me nor recommend to any other that I just go cold turkey off the opioids I was using. The only reason I can even comprehend why doctors would say that is that your daughter had been lying about the pain and abusing the drugs and using/abusing the doctors, but in this case I highly doubt that. It sounds vey serious. Did your daughter's doctors ever the option of surgery to improve her condition? That has been proven effective in some cases similar to your daughters. Regardless, at the beginning of her getting treated and even now her pain, the attacks, and her condition ahd to be well monitored and controlled, hence why they used the opioid medication. One huge problem your daughter now faces is that, once a strong opioid like Dilaudid is introduced to the brain and body and then re-introduced repeatedly, taken off of the opioid the body and brain has made it among hunger and thirst, as a tool to keep one alive, so the body will create pain and make it seem like one is going to die unless the drug is re-introduced, thus producing the vicious cycle that is addiction. Of course it would help me greatly if I knew your daughters history, details of the pancreatitis attacks, and many other questions, but that isnt reality and it wont help your daughter at this time. It is already too late to think about what could have been done differently or the who, what, and why's?, so forward is the only motion your daughter needs to be moving. Positive progression of the disease is the only goal. On top of having to worry about her pancreatitis worsening or getting an attack, your daughter does not need the burden of having to go cold turkey off of opiates. That will engulf her whole mental being, and devour it at this point, a year into moderate to heavy use. Your daughter's anxiety will heighten to extreme levels, pain will surge throughout her body, and your daughter will sit through a week or so of pure hell if she goes cold turkey. There is no one in ther right mind that would think that is a good idea. A couple of suggestions other than finding better doctors, is have the present doctors start to wean her down on her dosages of the dilaudid and lortabs, there should be no talk of cold turkey at all. That is out of the question. With her dose gradually tapered down, once low enough right below being completely off of both of them, and also make sure she is in fair condition with her chronic pancreatitits, i know its not going to get amgically fully better, but dont do this during an attack or when its really bad, but when her condition is fair, I would start a short detox for her in a hospital or clinic setting. They will give her medication to ease any discomfort she will have and then working with not only addiction specialist, but also the doctors assigned to her pancreatitis plan out the best next step. Most likely, unless surgery is a good option and drastically improves yur daughters pancreatitis, she is still going to have attacks and still ahve chronic pain, so see if your daughter would try suboxone/subutex(buprenorphine-aboout 30-40% stronger than morphine), a newer long lasting mixed agonist/antagonist opioid, the average half-life is 37 hrs. and in Europe it is exstensively used as a pain control med called Temgesic in very small doses. For your daughters condition and her addiction a dose around 8-16mgs would be the most efficient for pain control and eliminating any and all withdrawals and cravings. Her other option if suboxone does not work well for her is to start with a methadone treatment.plan. It is a little stronger, but also a little more addictive with harsher withdrawal symptoms if for some reason your daughter cold turkeys. If that happens both drugs will cause severe wd's similar in all aspects of dilaudid,heroin, and other heavy opiates, but lasting over a month. Of the two methadone has worse wd symptoms, but suboxone is a lotnewer so a lot more is becoming known and the wd's at first thought to be mild are also severe and last a little longer, but with both of them if she is tapered down slowly at whatever pace works best for her she will not ahve any problems getting off. Your daughter has to taper at the pace that allows her to have no discomfort, yet still gradually going down off of the opioid. With her condition she could be on either of them indefinitely or at least years, but with her pain condition she will have to truly be honest with herself and find what pain is real and what is created by the opioids that have flooded her system. With methadone her dose can go higher and higher, buprenorphine has a ceiling dose of 32mgs daily, after taht it turns into a full antagonist causing extreme wd's in patients. Now if your daughter ends up starting on suboxone treatment, im sure the doctors will control this, but make sure she is in proficient wd's before starting the suboxone otherwise she will have precipitated withdrawals as the buprenorphine binds more tightly than the other opioids and will knock them off the receptors causing sudden severe withdrawal. I really hope your daughters condition improves and my heart goes out to youa dny oru family. Happy Holidays and stay strong-christos
To JDrennan- My absolute sympathies go out to you and your daughter and acredation goes out to you for your strangth to stick by your daughter through this terrible situation. How was daughter found to get chronic pancreatitis? was there the possibility of excessive drinking or abuse of certain drugs at all? I know this does not change anything or answer any of your questions, but it would give me a better idea of what should help you and your daughter...I do think it is time, and you know quite a bit being a RN for as long as you ahve been, but look around your region I mean even out of state if necessary to find the best set of doctors your daughter can find, other than the ones she ahs now telling her to go "cold turkey" off the large amount of potent opioids she has been exposed to regularily. The doctor and patient have to mesh and click together and everyone including the family have to all be on the same page. Now the current doctors have they taken every measure they possibly can to lessen the amount of times your daighter's chronic Pancreatitis worsens? The Lortabs(hydrocodone) are not a heavy opioid, still addictive, but no where comparable to the Dilaudid IV. The Dilaudid(Hydromorhpone,3-6times more potent than Heroin) is in a junkies eyes "the ultimate" and your daughter being on it for several weks per month for a year, she is both dependant and addicted to the hydromorphone and the hydrocodone. It is sad seeing as your daughter did not choose to have the situation given to her in no way. I was severely and heavily addicted to snorting both Heroin and Oxycontin for two and half years. it destroyed me and my families lives. It ruined every friendship I once thought I had had and every relationship that could have been. I was enslaved to brown powder and a green pill, any and all control lost. Now me and your situations are obviously different, but similar in that there was no way any doctor would tell me nor recommend to any other that I just go cold turkey off the opioids I was using. The only reason I can even comprehend why doctors would say that is that your daughter had been lying about the pain and abusing the drugs and using/abusing the doctors, but in this case I highly doubt that. It sounds vey serious. Did your daughter's doctors ever the option of surgery to improve her condition? That has been proven effective in some cases similar to your daughters. Regardless, at the beginning of her getting treated and even now her pain, the attacks, and her condition ahd to be well monitored and controlled, hence why they used the opioid medication. One huge problem your daughter now faces is that, once a strong opioid like Dilaudid is introduced to the brain and body and then re-introduced repeatedly, taken off of the opioid the body and brain has made it among hunger and thirst, as a tool to keep one alive, so the body will create pain and make it seem like one is going to die unless the drug is re-introduced, thus producing the vicious cycle that is addiction. Of course it would help me greatly if I knew your daughters history, details of the pancreatitis attacks, and many other questions, but that isnt reality and it wont help your daughter at this time. It is already too late to think about what could have been done differently or the who, what, and why's?, so forward is the only motion your daughter needs to be moving. Positive progression of the disease is the only goal. On top of having to worry about her pancreatitis worsening or getting an attack, your daughter does not need the burden of having to go cold turkey off of opiates. That will engulf her whole mental being, and devour it at this point, a year into moderate to heavy use. Your daughter's anxiety will heighten to extreme levels, pain will surge throughout her body, and your daughter will sit through a week or so of pure hell if she goes cold turkey. There is no one in ther right mind that would think that is a good idea. A couple of suggestions other than finding better doctors, is have the present doctors start to wean her down on her dosages of the dilaudid and lortabs, there should be no talk of cold turkey at all. That is out of the question. With her dose gradually tapered down, once low enough right below being completely off of both of them, and also make sure she is in fair condition with her chronic pancreatitits, i know its not going to get amgically fully better, but dont do this during an attack or when its really bad, but when her condition is fair, I would start a short detox for her in a hospital or clinic setting. They will give her medication to ease any discomfort she will have and then working with not only addiction specialist, but also the doctors assigned to her pancreatitis plan out the best next step. Most likely, unless surgery is a good option and drastically improves yur daughters pancreatitis, she is still going to have attacks and still ahve chronic pain, so see if your daughter would try suboxone/subutex(buprenorphine-aboout 30-40% stronger than morphine), a newer long lasting mixed agonist/antagonist opioid, the average half-life is 37 hrs. and in Europe it is exstensively used as a pain control med called Temgesic in very small doses. For your daughters condition and her addiction a dose around 8-16mgs would be the most efficient for pain control and eliminating any and all withdrawals and cravings. Her other option if suboxone does not work well for her is to start with a methadone treatment.plan. It is a little stronger, but also a little more addictive with harsher withdrawal symptoms if for some reason your daughter cold turkeys. If that happens both drugs will cause severe wd's similar in all aspects of dilaudid,heroin, and other heavy opiates, but lasting over a month. Of the two methadone has worse wd symptoms, but suboxone is a lotnewer so a lot more is becoming known and the wd's at first thought to be mild are also severe and last a little longer, but with both of them if she is tapered down slowly at whatever pace works best for her she will not ahve any problems getting off. Your daughter has to taper at the pace that allows her to have no discomfort, yet still gradually going down off of the opioid. With her condition she could be on either of them indefinitely or at least years, but with her pain condition she will have to truly be honest with herself and find what pain is real and what is created by the opioids that have flooded her system. With methadone her dose can go higher and higher, buprenorphine has a ceiling dose of 32mgs daily, after taht it turns into a full antagonist causing extreme wd's in patients. Now if your daughter ends up starting on suboxone treatment, im sure the doctors will control this, but make sure she is in proficient wd's before starting the suboxone otherwise she will have precipitated withdrawals as the buprenorphine binds more tightly than the other opioids and will knock them off the receptors causing sudden severe withdrawal. I really hope your daughters condition improves and my heart goes out to youa dny oru family. Happy Holidays and stay strong-christos
great posts everyone I agree I think many of us have come to the conclusion we are addicts readgardless of whether it stemmed fro pain or not .I will say this too med help has a great pain management forum for anyone that is interested.
For me, I just say chronic pain because like many, my list of problem areas is extensive. I try not to dwell too much on that part. So, I agree with Worried - so often we just don't talk about it much - we're more concerned with our addiction and trying to stay away from narcotics.
i guess on this forum we kinda mention the chronic pain but dont dwell on it often as the focus is ourr addiction..i do post on the pain forum from time to time...their outlook on narcotics is different tho...i have DDD with a fusion at c-5-6 and fighting another at c6-7...nerve damage found yesterday at L-5, c-,7 8 and 9 on a nerve study..in january i go back to discuss treatment options as this was my second opinion as i do not want another fusion..i really feel as if i could not go back to work in my capacity if i had another...the last one did not help my pain 6 years ago and took me a long time to get my strength back..i couldnt hold me head up wuithout my muscles tiring for 3 months..and i never got back to my previous level of functioning....i have a injury related scoliosis..not genetic which is torking my spine and compressing my discs..got another disc on the way to exploding or getting squished, it is leaking now
but anyway...i guess after u post for a while u just kinda know everyones opain probs..for instance cathy has tmj severely, avisg has the back, eagle has the liver issues and back, prodical girl has a less common problem that is complicated as does another poster..many others...some used recreationally and were not chronic pain patients
but anyway...i guess after u post for a while u just kinda know everyones opain probs..for instance cathy has tmj severely, avisg has the back, eagle has the liver issues and back, prodical girl has a less common problem that is complicated as does another poster..many others...some used recreationally and were not chronic pain patients
My daughter has been on Dilaudid IV infusion pumps and Lortab for chronic pancreatitis. Now her MDs think she can just "cold turkey" the problem after over a year of 2-3 weeks of every month being on this. She is on TPN (IV feedings) because of the pancreatitis and has to be carried to the bathroom. Her muscles have wasted to the point that she can not walk. Would someone please give me some advise or just "words of wisdom". Thanks (I have been an RN for over 35 yrs but this is beyond my scope of being able to deal with it because I can not be objective and have been accused of being an "enabler" which maybe I am and cannot see it) ***@**** Please,someone give me some insight.
ohhhh yeah I do still have cronic pain issues I also am an addict so narcotic's are not an option .I have found other ways to deal with my pain and honestly my pain levels were worse on the pills then off . There are times I feel like it is totaly unfair that I can't take narocitcs when I am in pain but it is what it is and I am an addict .
happy holidays, i have to agree with you, when someone vaguely describes why they are prescribed the oxycontins or vicodins from a pain management doc it leaves a whole plethora of different circumstances...it could be anything from herniated discs in the back, neck surgery, facial prolems, you name it, there are thousands of different conditions...i agree completely with jrfk, the more specific one is to their exact problem with as many details as possible, escpecially when it comes to having chronic pain and the addiction that follows, the more help can actually be provided...it's huge, crucial! thanks to all and Happy Holidays to everyone!!!!-christos
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