complicated issue about suboxone

[helios17]

Was on methadone for 4 years dealing with nerve damage from fractured neck.  Pain Dr. put me on Methadone and it worked great but he decided he needed to ween me so he put me on suboxone.  Half way through the process, my workmans comp just dropped me.

So did every doctor in town...no insurance and unable to work.

I became a criminal overnight by going to the East side and getting 50 10 mg norcos. When those raan out I  finally went to ER and got some help.  Followup doctor took me in pro bono for 1 month to help me out.

Am currently on Clondidine, 2mg every 4 hours to keep from either crawling out of my skin or running an exhaust pipe into my car and going to sleep.  Suboxone withdrawal is a living death.,

My queston.  Since I hammered the HC's so bad, did I over-ride the Sub addiction, or am I looking at another 20 days of Sub withdrawal.  Also, I can eat some but not much and sleep is an hour at a time.  I am drinking Ensure now but I am so very, very weak, I am becoming a bit concerned.

Any ideas

[helios17]

Miraculous day...

See, the hell of my wd was the crawlies...the feeling that I just wanted to juxtapose my skin and organs...it was so very intense that I actually took large amounts of sedatives to sleep it through...that was until I found a benevolent Doctor who took me in for the duration and prescribed me Clonidine, albeit in borderline dangerous doses.  It was the only thing that kept me from serious thoughts of suicide...and I am not being dramatic...I was under the impression that I was wd'ing from sub.

Turns out not so...the HC's I scored and ate with abandon were the addiction that had taken over.

Thank My Almighty God.

I went to bed as normal, sleeping pill, Clonidine and Valium and even with that had problems sleeping.  I am by nature a short-sleeper, and yes that is a clinical term...only sleep 4 hours at night...started at 12 yo.  Parents accused me of being on drugs long before it was true.

Woke up at 430 and reflexively reached for the Clondine, not wanting the crawlies to begin.

They didn't...of course it takes me about 3-5 minutes after waking up to start feeling them.

15 minutes later, they were not there.  One hour later, they were not there.

Holy God they are gone and I think I am coming out of this thing.  Still very, very weak...no legs under me to speak of...massive undertaking just to go to the bathroom.

Oh and by the way...is it common during wd's not to bm for 5 days?  LOL...things broke through this morning.  (sorry)  It was an epic event.

Thank you guys.  I plan to come back here when I get my strength back and do an entire chronicle of my 6 days in hell.

Love you guys

./

[helios17]

Took the methadone for 4 years and the Sub for about 3 months.  When Workers comp dropped me, I was at 2 mg of sub every 12 hours.  I'm thinkin' "These little slivers of pills?  nothing to it, screw workers comp.

I sincerely considered suicide the second day.  That's when I almost crawled to my car and went "downtown" and scored the HCs.  Did about 50 10mg's in three days.  I felt them almost immediately, but not like before.  I just decided that five bucks a pop for 10 mg HC's was not sustainable...even considered getting on a life-long methadone program but that's not cheap and I am uninsured.

[worried878]

suboxone is a narcotic...different mechanism than many narcs but in reality it is a hard core tough narcotic to wd from....trams r not a true narcotic//even less so than sub..and tram wds can be hell...and so can sub wds

u dint state how long  u were on sub//nor the dose///nor did u state the methadone dose u were on when u switched to sub ...important to know this...if u were on methadone and did sub for a week then most likely it is methadone wds peeking thru...if u were on sub more than 21 days..it is very likely it is the sub u r wding from...both r long wds as both sub and methadone have long wd periods due to the long half life of each drug..people will argue over which wd is worse...but it is neither here nor there...have taken both drugs..methadone legally for pain  20 mgs a day and had no wds...sub i used when i was outa pills cos a friend would give them to me....but no wd as I  never took it long enuf to experience wds....i was a 100 mg hydro user for 4 yrs...2 mgs of sub would send me flying for the day...20 mgs of methadone was not a buzz at all for me..no longing to abuse it cos if i took 30 mgs i was only sleepy...my hydro addiction was linked to nrg..methadone did not give me that/sub did/when i quit i did not use either...i knew sub was a dangerous choice cos i liked the sub too much...better buzz for me than hydro....everyone is different...different stroke for different folks

tell us more about ur doses of these drugs and length of use///above all...keep posting

[TysonRed]

Sounds like your just going to go through a "normal" opiate detox from the shorter acting norco. Not to say that is some breeze, but in my experience compared to methadone or suboxone it for sure doesnt last as long. During my suboxone detox I did take .2 mgs clonidine 3x daily, but I do have moderate hypertension, but Ive pretty much always taken some amount of clonidine when coming off opiates. Whatever you do I wouldnt go back to the suboxone at this point, hopefully if its day3-4 already, you should really only have a few more days until you can notice a signifigant physical difference. I dont know too much about provigil, never taken it, but it's a stimulant and I have heard of people getting addicted to it, Im not sure whether or not its an amphetamine or not. On another note this forum is great and one thing we should all understand is the privacy that is sometimes needed to avoid some sort of discrimination. Keep up the good work, like you said going through a detox is a good reminder for the future to hopefully deter you from putting yourself in this situation again. I wish you the best of luck, you can do this, take care.

[salsinator]

Helios, everything you say here will be kept here and nobody will know who you are.  People here do not judge others either, we all help each other.  I have actually taken provigil before, which was prescribed due to the extreme daytime sleepyness I experience on the suboxone - although I was also tested for sleep apnea.  Funny thing, as soon as I got clean, the daytime sleepyness went away.  My advice from personal experience would be to NOT take the provigil, it will mask the side effects from the clonidine, esspecially if you are taking too much.  Also, since anxiety and jitteryness - the feeling of jumping out of your skin - are prime symptoms of withdrawal - the provigil being a stimulant will almost certainly exaserbate these symptoms.  Just know that you should start to feel better within another day or two.  Get some light exercise and take some warm baths - they will help too.

[helios17]

I actually cannot keep the time straight.  I THINK I am in day 4 but it may be day 3...I took the last of my HC's in mid day.  I took no Sub after the HC's.  The HC's were purchased to stave off the withdrawal of the Sub.

Bless you folks for being here.  I am the founder of a well known non profit and this just isn't something I particularly want open.

[helios17]

Also, I have a legal script here for provigil.  Has anyone here used it to fight off the sleepiness made by the Clonidine?

[salsinator]

Helios,  I agree with bkwrm, if you were taking the narco for even just a little over a week, you most likely did override the suboxone.  How long have you been going through withdrawal?  You indicate that you had a doc working with you probono for a month, if you have been in withdrawal?  If you were taking suboxone during that month following the HC, then I would say that you are most likely going through sub withdrawal.  If you are in regular opiate w/d, if should subside within about 4-7 days - at least the major symptoms, also depeinding on how much you were taking daily.  I'm sorry if you are in sub withdrawal, I have been on both sides of the fence and the sub *****.  I also agree on the Clonidine - the normal prescribed dose is 0.1 - 0.2/day, not every 4 hours.  If you can take your blood pressure and it is below 105/65, don't take more until it goes above that - I know this from my own detox a few months ago.  Hang in there, we are here to support you.

[helios17]

Thank you so much for your help.  I only did the HC's a few days after quitting the Sub, but yes, I did feel them...too much actually ;-)  You know how we get...

My worst fear is that I am facing the sub withdrawals.  Here in Austin in the past month alone there have been three suicides because of people needing help with Suboxone detox and not getting any.  

The doctor up-ed my dosage after careful monitoring of my bp...staying at 96/110...a bit low for my normal 110/?.  My withdrawal symptoms are so severe that there really wasn't any choice unless it was rendering me unconscious for the next few days and cath'ing me.

Not my idea of getting it done.  Besides.  A sick part of me wants to experience this entire misery.

I don't know how anyone can go back to narcotics after going through this.

[bkwrm679]

If you did the HCs for a month or more after going off of the suboxone, you're just going to go through regular opiate withdrawal. If you were going through suboxone withdrawal (just in my experience) you probably wouldn't have the fatigue, just the RLS and insomnia for a month. If you're in full withdrawals (which it sounds like you are), then I don't think the suboxone will haunt you. Also, if you were feeling the effect of the HCs, then that means the suboxone was gone - it only has a half-life of 30 to at most 70 hours in my experience. 2mg of Clonidine every 4 hours sounds WAY too high, unless you're normally on BP medication and are replacing it. Even .2mg every 4 hours is twice as much and twice as often than I was taking it. Not giving you dosing advice, because we're not allowed on here, but I'd check on that with a Dr. if I were you, and keep tabs on your BP so you don't bottom it out and drive your pulse through the roof.