crappy feeling after nap (suboxone)

I'm currently trying to get completely off suboxone, i've gotten my dose down to .25 mg and have been at that for 4 days now, i plan to jump off in about 3 or so (fingers crossed) i'm trying to do this while working so i might even go lower than .25 idk we'll see how it all goes!  but anyways i take my .25 dose in the morning before i go to work at about 4 am. since lowering my dose i've had trouble sleeping and with a very labor intensive job i'm TIRED after work but emotionally/physically decent.  I take about a 1 to 1 and a half hour nap and when i wake up OMG i feel like i got hit by a freight train all i think about is dosing and just feel like complete ****! i hate it! this happened to me yesterday, it subsided after about an hour but the rest of my day was packed with anxiety and depression (manageable but not too comfortable) just wondering if anyone knows why after a nap i wake up feeling completely different =| I'm not going to go off track no matter what, i can't afford to! but any suggestions or just plain knowing why would help tons.

thanks in advance, Nick

[subbin]

just to add

any support going through this would be great, doing this withought anyone at home fully understanding kind of *****

[vicki595]

Hey Nick!  It's a little curious about the nap thing. I'm sure there's a lot of things involved with that but bottom line,it's all your brain and it's chemicals. Is there a doctor in the mix?
I can't really tell you what to do because it would be considered as dosing advice and we don't do that here...but a couple of things: Have you had a check up and blood work? Can you not take a nap to test out if that's the problem?  Also,ask the doctor if you could split the .25mg in the morning. Ask him if you could take maybe .125mg,twice a day. I don't know if that would help at all,I'm just trying to make some suggestions...It's best to see your doctor though. You shouldn't be that tired!!  Keep posting!!

[subbin]

hii thx for the response! =) well as far as the doctor goes I am prescribed the suboxone but i'm not sure if he knows what he's doing when it comes to dosing.  He basically will ask me how i'm feeling and than i tell him how much i want to take and he writes the script.. I did this for about 6 months and pretty much got no where, I mean come on! you ask my addict self how much of a medication i want and MORE MORE MORE will always be my honest response =P but i finally decided i needed to get off of everything completely so i started tapering myself and now am here! i havn't seen the doctor in quite a while since i had more than enough medication to get me through my taper but i scheduled an app thursday to possibly get some chlonodine for when i do completely stop.

the .125mg twice a day sounds great! but before i went down to .25 i was at .5 in the morning and .5 at night and wanted to kind of.. idk.. break the cycle and just do a morning dose if that makes sense? I was just trying to not get my body use to taking it at that time every day.

woahhh I just thought of something, maybe since after my normal nap, the time I wake up is around the time I would usually take my night dose and since i don't take it could that be why i feel the way i do?

thanks again i really appreciate your response!

[vicki595]

Exactly!!  That's what happened!!  You broke the cycle alright!  You cut your dose by 50%!
LOL  That's the ticket!

Sooo...I guess you know exactly what to do to feel better, right?  You just needed to talk it over...

Keep checking in...it could help you!!

[subbin]

gooood morning! I think we figured it out ;)  I woke up this morning and feel optimistic, I havn't took a morning dose and i guess i'm just going to try and hold off for as long as i can, i kinda told myself eh i'll take it in an hour when i KNOW i'll need it.  The hour comes and i feel okay enough to put it off another hour so possibly this could be day 1? idk i sure hope so!

thx for your response it helps it really does

[HenryS354]

Hey Nick,

Sorry its been a few days since Ive checked in on you... my flights have been hella crazy this week!

This is one of those "Curveballs" that sub detox throws at you that we were talking about.  

I think you and vicki are spot on about the source of your "crappiness" feeling.  One other thing to consider... when we sleep, our brains are processing neurotransmitters at a higher than usual level.  Considering that your endogenous (Natural) endorphin production is already low, when you sleep, you are in a sense "Using up" your supply, which is one reason a lot of us feel stronger wd's in the am, or after periods of sleep.

You are at a super low dose my friend which is quite a feat!  This is just my own personal opinion, but you will possibly stabilize on .25, and then go through this again on your next decrease.  After my own multiple attempts at detoxing off of sub at various dosages and taper schedules, I found that the actual wd's of anything under .5mg daily were comparable.

I like your idea of going as long as you can... when you feel you are going to break, see if you can go just 1 hour longer.  

Try to forget about your last detox from sub... sometimes ignoarnce is bliss!  It could be a completely different experience this time around for ya!

Just push with all you've got, be good to yourself, and remember this is truly only temporary!

Henry

[vicki595]

Henry!!  Great!  I'm happy you saw this because I forgot to email you...you little Guru!!

Can you do something that will really help a LOT of people?  Will you talk about the withdrawal after the Suboxone taper is over?  It seems to me that you said a long time ago that the withdrawal from the Suboxone is really the withdrawl (withdrawal) from whatever opiate you were on prior to the induction of Sub.  Did you say that or did I dream it??  I can't find the post where you talked about that...and I thought that was pretty interesting.

Subbin:  I agree with that last post you made, just based on what I know...So,yes,this could be your day 1. It can be whatever YOU want!!  So,much of this is mental!!  But,not all so do what Henry suggested and push!

Keep checking in!!

[subbin]

heyy henry =) ahhh i know what you mean, I think i'm honestly just prolonging the WDs, I feel about the same I did at .5 idk i still haven't gave in I NEED to do this!  My job is riding on this detox, if i don't make it happen i'll lose that, but not only that i'm tired of being a slave to this stuff! btw i'm not knocking suboxone this drug has got me back on my feet and aloud me to begin to mend the destruction my previous addiction caused and to think alot clearer (just wanted to throw that out their).

I find that when i'm alone and not being productive (like now on my day off) it's 10 times harder.  On days I have work I'm not thinking about it, i have a job where i'm always with a partner so i'm constantly talking to them keeping my mind in a different place.

So far today has been all psychological and nothing physical so it's bearable.  I was beginning to feel like i wanted to give in so i took my lil vitamin regime of zinc, magnesium, b-6, b-12, and a protein shake.  It seems to have helped alot I think its just what i needed to get me to that next hour =)

i'll keep posting, thx henry and vicki =D

[subbin]

This WILL be day 1, I flushed every last one of my strips, I have nothing left in the pharmacy, here goes nothin

[vicki595]

Vicki is doing the "happy dance", New Mexico style!!

Stay close,don't worry,send Henry a message and let him know...

HERE GOES SOMETHIN' !!!    Proud of you. Don't worry!  Drink!!  (water!)

[subbin]

hahaha "here goes somethin" i like that =) I def won't hesitate to message henry haha he'll prolly get annoyed with me by the time i'm done with this detox =D i'm super thankful he's still around i remember we both kicked oxy/sub around the same time last year together i just wish i wouldve stuck with it, but hey maybe this time will be different =)

i've got this feeling of excitement right now i'll enjoy it while it last! ahh this is going to be one hell of a ride

[HenryS354]

Congrats on the flush man!

I was hoping that would be the route that you were going to go!  Was it not the most terrifying yet liberating thing ever? I remember I damn near jumped face first into the bowl after those suckers, but once they were gone, I had a huge weight lifted off of my shoulders, as I knew that this was the end!

So Vicki is dancing in NM, and so far tonight I have danced in Mesa AZ, Oakland CA, Bakersfield CA, San Diego Ca, and El Paso TX! (it's been a busy night for me) :-P

And for what it's worth.... I'd never get annoyed helping out a fellow addict, ever!

Vicki, I have the next few days just sitting on call... I will be sure to write up something on how Buprenorphine works, and some common myths and documented facts! And yes... There was a post I made back in the day mentioning some strong evidence that a persons wd from buprenorphine was directly correlated to their DOC, dosage, and duration of use.  It plays off of the neuroplascisity concept. You have a great memory!

[vicki595]

Thanks Henry!!   It's great about "subbin", isn't it??!!

This would be purely self serving on my part (LOL) but when you write the info up would you put it a journal on your page or, better yet, in the "health pages"??  Think about it...you write so well... :)

Subbin:  Still feeling excited??  It's time to check in...and Henry doesn't get annoyed!!

[subbin]

Heyy :) at work right now, to be honest I feel no physical/emotional discomfort what so ever, I guess still waiting for it to POUND me but nothing yet... It's really weird when I was taking my .25 in the morning by around 4 pm I was feeling so much anxiety and wanted nothing but a dose.. But since I've stopped it's day 2 and I have no symptoms?? I mean I'm not complaining fk it haha I'll take it :) I'll post again when I get off work :) thx all !

[subbin]

just got off! ermm i have that cold/hot feeling going on where i want to turn on the fan but i don't want to cause i know i'll get cold =P a little anxiety now but i'm doing okay, i have a dr. app at 3 so hopefully i can get some chlonidine in the mix

i'll check back later!

[vicki595]

Clonidine helps A LOT!    You know the feelings come in waves so just "surf it"...really,there's physical stuff but so much is attitude!!  Don't be thinking about the "other shoe dropping". Think: I have kicked your butt!!!  I'm good!!   Just"fake it til you make it", it works!

Don't forget to report the doctor visit!!  I'd like to know what he says...LOL

[subbin]

definitely! i'm trying to keep a possitive attitude! it was kinda a let down when i found out my app got rescheduled to tomorrow, i guess it was a good thing i called first instead of driving 45 mins to find out.. now that woulda sucked =P

[subbin]

just checkin in, in 2 minutes it will be 48 hours =) and yes i'm counting the minutes haha argh i'm not going to lie i almost lost it, my anxiety level went through the roof and idk idk idk i got very very low but i went and bought immodium and took 4mg.. HOLY SHT it's either in my head or that stuff really relieved alot if not all of the symptoms that had started to come up i feel fine right now, i'm so scared for work tomorrow morning and praying i can sleep tonight!

i'll be on here if i can't!

cheers, Nick

[vicki595]

Nick...Yes, the Immodium will do that. Nice surprise,huh??  If you add one more nitrogen to the chemical it would be a real live opiate. But,it's not. It just works like one. Cool?

Go get comfy...

[subbin]

Morning ! Slept good last night today had been the hardest day of work I've ever done I ain't feelin to good?

[subbin]

!*

[HenryS354]

Keep hangin in there bud!

You have 48 hours down, and are starting to creep toward 36.  Your symptoms may start to being to peak around now, and then again... they may not!

What I found helped me out was not trying to analyze everything I was feeling physically, or trying to breakdown what wd's I was going through.

The mind is such a powerful thing, and other detox attempts of mine were laden with anticipating the worst.  If you tell yourself the worst is yet to come, it usually does.

Dont fear the next few days, as the victory you will feel once you overcome it will be far worth it!

You are doing this!!! :-)

[subbin]

heyy thx for the support!

I guess I should've explained what i went through this morning instead of saying it was just a bad day.. because i'm here 8 hours later and still haven't used so small victory? =D i feel proud and actually not to bad right now, i took a nap and didn't get that shitttttttty feeling i actually feel refreshed!

your so right henry the mind is sooo POWERFUL it's unbelievable! this morning i was working and through out the whole thing my head would switch from "i can do this" to "wth am i even trying to do.. i can't do this" the real turning point when i knew i was going to make it was when the sun finally came up. It was almost like i got a surge of energy, the physical symptoms alleviated and my head was all positive!

I think it's just going to be a crazy roller coaster of up and down that i'm going to have to ride no matter what some day anyways so why not now.. i'm already on it!  And as far as riding it again when i'm done HELL NO i'll just take the little picture they give you at the end to remind me of how much fun it was and just PEACE =)

[subbin]

Well work early tomorrow I seen the doc he wanted to put me back on the sub, I smell money hungry.. I thought he'd be happy, wouldn't even give me a script for chlonidine :/ oh well! I'm at 72 hours now :) feeling alright still kinda tight legs but hopefully I can sleep before they start kicking!

Night :)

[HenryS354]

Keep up the good work bro!

That makes no sense that the doc wanted you back on sub, when you are doing so well! One of the things that frustrates me most about the medical community....

72 hours... WOOT!  I hope you get a few hours of rest before work tomorrow.

The leg thing will come and  go, if it gets too bad, wrap them in ace bandages, or try the highlands.

I still need to reply to you about the supplements as well, I didnt forget. :-)

You are rockin this!

[FukPezies]

Dude, I font want to bring you down or anything but are you like the biggest ***** to e Ed take a pill? Is it seriously taking you weeks trying to ween off .25 milligrams of suboxone? You want to stop taking pills seriously? Then ******* flush that shot down the ******* toilet.  Excuse me for being rude.  I'm currently on day six, cold turkey from taking up forty, 10/325's everyday for almost five years.  Sure there were days where I couldn't take that many for fear of running out and dropping another $500 that would only last 3-4 days, but I was constantly above 20.  This is how it's been formme so far. Day 1: no withdraws.  Day 2: didn't sleep, tossed and turned all night. Diahrea all day. Stomach aches etc. Day 3: went o work and spent about half the time curled up in a little ball in the bathroom lime a junkie. Take day 2 and times it by 2. Nighttime was worse than the day. Depression is already starting to settle in and I'm actually crying. Sweats, chills, shakes, and tremors. Restless legs and achy bones and muscles. Real bad anxiety. Zero hours of sleep on day 3. Day 4, I closed last night and I opened this day and seriously don't know how I made it in to work on this day. I feel the same on day for except my dam legs wouldn't stop shaking. Day4, night I laid down and almost lost it on this night. I felt like my legs were uncontrollable constantly shaking, I'm feeling like I want to literally crawl out of my own skin. Zero sleep, day 4. Day for was really rough for me and day five I felt the same physically.  The difference day five though is that I'm ******* Mad! I beca
Enraged lying there not sleeping and feeling helpless. Being mad though seems like a good thing though. It sure beats feeling like a piece of **** that just dropped 1000's upon 1000's of dollars over the last several years to maintain a HIGH that hasn't even gotten me high in at least three years. My pill hook up told me that I should have gone to heroin long ago because of all the money I was spending on this ****. Luckily I had to much pride to stick a needle in my arm even though at my level of intake it would have been healthier considering all the ******* acetametiphine that I've exposses my liver and kidnes too. Day five is also the day that my organs ache. My left kidney keeps shooting sharp pains that sometimetimes makes me hit the floor and my colon is very tender as well. Im hoping of course that there isn't permanent damage done and just tell myself that the pain is magnified due to the pain receptors being blocked forms long. Day 5, 40 mins sleep. Day 6 is right now. I feel like day 3, 4, and five with the worst being the night of day 4, wanting to crawl out of my own skin night. So far I'm still sad,but still angry.  If you are still reading this then you probably know by now that you aren't alone. If I had more sleep I could have listed every physical and mental ailment associated up to this point but I think you get the point. Stop being a ***** and get off the subs, or stop wasting everyones time saying that your trying to "ween" off a 1/4 of a ******* milligram of suboxone. You don't have to be as extreme as I was and go cold turkey off of 200-400 milligrams of hydrocodone everyday for five years, but come on bro. It's okay to feel a little sick. Either get off or don't but I hope you do and I hope this rambling pisses you off enough to make a stand and stop being a ***** for one, but also to stop being a victim who is powerless to a ******* pill.
Peace out, im ******* tired and delirious.

[subbin]

lol thx i guess

[mellie4]

I think you're doing great the way you're going.  

[subbin]

Actually fukpezies thank you, I was on my way to work thinking how much of an a$$ you were and it kinda pissed me off but  hey my emotions are pretty high right now, also I was thinking this guys right and made me feel stronger,  it sounds like you've had it pretty rough I hope the best for you, I've been through a CT from oxy/fent and went through what your going through so I feel for you your.. Well WE are  almost their mate ;)

[subbin]

thx mellie =) i appreciate it!

[HenryS354]

So hows today been goin for ya so far bud?

[eagle101]

What did that pezie dude actually say? He is not familiar with the pharmocolgical bend of buprenorphine. And there doesnt exist a decent correlation between sub withdrawals and withdrawal from hydrocodone or oxycodone.

[HenryS354]

I responded to pezie's post last night trying to explain that the two cant be compared, and that everyones experience was unique.

Im not sure if my post was deleted or not, maybe I just sounded too heavy handed, however Pezie, I still encourage you to start a new thread so we can help guide you through your detox with your own uniquities!

[subbin]

Henry! I'm surprisingly fine ;) nothing physical has really hit me except lack of energy and tight legs.  So far it's been i'd say 90% mental, it swings from insane highs to insane lows but the highs have been longer than the lows so it's coo by me =) work on day 3 and this morning were hellish but definitely today felt easier than yesterday for some reason.  When my anxiety jumps up I just tell myself this is only going to last 20 minutes if that and it usually does =D 91 hours and i'm still okay is that normal? just thought i'd ask, i think i got this!

eagle101 his post is up just a bit but I honestly think he was just venting I'm sure we all know that feeling when it's 4 in the am and you wanna slap your cat because he/she is sleeping and your not =\ but definitely this is by far way different than any other detox i've experienced from opiates

[vicki595]

You sound great!!

I didn't know how to take ***'s message either...I do think he's coming off a bit too strong with the "tough love"...I don't know!!

Hey ***: Are you okay??

('SLAP YOUR CAT BECAUSE HE/SHE IS SLEEPING'..!!!    HAHA!)

[HenryS354]

Vicki and I are gunna get tired of dancing if you continue doing so damn well, and frankly, my legs are getting tired. :-P

Slap the cat cause hes sleeping?  Hell, I wanted to Punch my guy just cause he was sitting there breathing when I was detoxing!  Wait, thats just cause he irritated me. lol

Vicki, Nick and I set a goal that he was going to be feeling like a new man by September 15th, which coincidentally is also the day that I get to leave this hell hole and go home.  Thrifty how that works eh? :-)  Wanna help us celebrate?

BTW, I dont know HOW you deal with this desert heat! ;-)

HS

[vicki595]

Henry: You're still in the desert?  I live in the HIGH desert (no pun intended lol) and it's different than Arizona...Only in the 90's !!   But it cools down beautifully in the evening...

Yes!!  I'd love to celebrate with you two!!  

Subbin:  I'm really proud for you!!  I think you've got this too!  Attitude is everything!!

Big hug!

[BlessedRTheBroken]

I know it's illegal, but I sure wish you'd have given them to me before you flushed them. Congratulations to you, though!!!

I've been trying like hell to get insurance and get in to see a doctor who could prescribe suboxone, and while my insurance is pending, I can't even secure an appointment.  The wait time around here is already nealy a month, which you would think would be long enough for insurance to either accept me or not, but because EVERYONE and their mothers are addicts around here, gotta keep that timeslot open for someone WITH insurance, or someone with $700 to part with each month.  I'm really upset right now, sorry I'm venting to you, it isn't your fault.  Regardless, I'm at the beginning of your journey, and it sounds like you are close to the end.  Glad to know it can be done, but it ***** knowing it'll be a continual struggle!  

[HairofOne]

Hey,

Henry said that I should read this thread to, I think, kind of help me to see some not so hellish sub detox stories. It does help. Thank you Subbin for posting your journey thus far, and I look forward to reading more of it as time passes.

I'm at the beginning of my detox...but at the end of the opiate nightmare.

I don't dance..but I'll give a thumbs up.

[subbin]

heyy! I went and read your post, this is my first long term (6 months of use) sub detox I just started day 5, about 2 hours ago and it's been doable so far, honestly it's been so much in my head hardly physical. I too went and read all the horror stories and all it did was freak me the fk out. so now i just come to this post and read this only.. all the other stuff i know will just bring me down.  idk being on here just having people tell you it's going to be okay makes you feel that much better!  And i'm so greatful for that, I know we can both do it!

I've also been through a short term detox in a rehab and it only lasted i think 10 days tops using suboxone.. that was the most comfortable detox i've EVER had, seriously no symptoms.  i guess what i'm getting at is 2 weeks is not that long!  I think we'll be fine =)

[subbin]

ahhh good morning day 5 =) just checkin in, i'm feeling absolutely fine I have no symptoms what so ever at the moment let's hope it stays that way woo woo i've noticed that everything is clearer, i actually laughed and got goosebumps last night :) it was followed by this huge anxiety feeling but heyy i havn't felt a moment like that in a longggg time

thx for all the support everyone!

[vicki595]

Nick!   I just want to hug you!!!   I can so relate to the laughing out loud...I never realized just how somber I was until the day I laughed out LOUD. It scared the dog;he had NEVER heard me laugh. He was 9 years old.

Those moments will come more and more and they really feel good. Really good!! People don't believe it. We think we'll never feel good or feel high again; but we do!! Quite often!

xoxo        * Let me know when the celebration will be!!!

[HenryS354]

That's so awesome to hear bud,

These are those ups and downs that we all speak of! The lows can be low at times, but when those highs come, damn are they worth it!  Keep up that positive attitude of yours.... I really believe THAT has been key to your success this time around!

The mental fog is starting to lift now. It's such an awesome feeling when you hit that turning point where you actually start to feel again!

Congrats on your success!

[subbin]

end day 5 baybehhh =)  I feel great guys I've just been tryin to stay busy went and did some stuff with my dad (which i havn't done in a LONG time) and it felt awesome knowing that it was 100% me talking with him, not some drug induced ramble.

well ima hit the hay thank you vicki and henry! i always get so excited to get on MH to see your posts, it really helps sooo much =)

cheers!

[subbin]

still chuggin! i must say day 4-5-6 have all been about the same, I still feel fine the lack of motivation is their but once i force myself to go and do something i feel great, just stayin busy =)

<3

[subbin]

WOO unless it's sneaking up on me tomorrow, I honestly think i'm in the clear! i felt fking fantastic after my post today! I can't stress enough how good I feel right now! the grass IS so much greener on this side =)

gonna whip out the old AA book and get to work ;)

also another thing i'd like to do differently this time is stay close with MH it seems i only came here when I needed to detox, which seems pretty selfish

thank you for all the support from everyone, it really did help and i appreciate it TONS <3

[vicki595]

Nick: Yes, visit more often. Don't just use us and leave in the morning!!  LOL! Not fair!

Honestly, you're getting a glimpse of what we all mean when we say it's so much better! And it's not like we all get together and agree to say that!! Or that we all go to the same aftercare guru!! No no!!

Stay in touch here...I hope AA works for you. If not,there are plenty of other programs,people,meetings,etc...you'll find your way!!

[girl7interrupted]

Thanks everyone for the posts. I'm currently the fiance of an Addict. He quit cold turkey 20 days ago from Methadon 10mg. a day for three years then cut it in half 5mg for a week then stopped. He's not good. I'm worried that he's is picking up another addiction to alcohol. He said it was easier to get of roxy's then methadon. He can't walk due to injury and his Doctor is useless (just wants him to stay on Methadon). I just want to know how long before he start to come around. He drinks a 1.750 of vodka every 3 days and he never drank before. I just don't know what I should do. I'm going to take him to another Dr. tomorrow hopefully he can give him something for is high pulse rate and hot and cold flashes and restlessness and sleeplessness. Any thoughts anyone. my first post had more details. Thanks

[HenryS354]

Congrats on your success man!!!

You have done amazingly well, and your documented journey here will help more people than you may ever know. Some may message you to ask questions, but there are tons of people that may be terrified with all the sub horror stories out there that will just quietly read this, and get their glimmer of hope!

Ive been playing the "Inmate shuffle" on and off all weekend, flying this morning, but will be sure to respond to your email later this afternoon.

Aside from my support, sticking around and helping other addicts is one of the main ways that I maintain my sobriety.  Its a great feeling to be able to help someone, but it also reminds you of that place that you were once in, and a few reasons to never go back!  My MH community has been integral to my sobriety! :-)