Member Comments are provided by individuals and reflect their personal opinions only. Under NO circumstances should you act on any advice or opinion posted in this forum. ALWAYS check with your personal physician before taking any action regarding your health! MedHelp International and our partners, sponsors and affiliates have no obligation to monitor any comments posted on this site, or the content and/or accuracy of such exchanges. MedHelp International does not endorse the views of any user.
does opiate addiction perminently change brain chemistry?
by Dindin, Jun 21, 2003 12:00AM
I have been using some form of opiate several times a day for almost 20 years. I am now 36 years old and really sick of it all. Its hard to believe that I have been like this for so long. I guess you could call me the ultimate functioning addict. (house, job, husband, children etc.) There is not a day that goes by that I dont wake up swearing to myself that I will not use, but we all know how that goes. I did try detox/rehab back in 1995. I was in a 30 day treatment program. They introduced me to NA but I didnt continue that after I got out. My question is this... Since I have been using so long, is it possible that I could need opiates for the rest of my life to function normally? The 30 days in rehab were miserable. After detox I was seriously emotionally unstable. I cant handle the way I feel when I am not using..... I am irrational, unstable, suicidal etc. Is it possible that I have altered my brain chemistry to a point of no return? I guess I really have not been clean longer than 30 days to find out (I am anticipating some of your reactions so I already said it) But 30 days is more than I can handle. I have thought about going on MMT but thats a joke. I have made numerious inquires to clinics only to be put on an indefinite waiting list or told that I need a doc to refer me.Could someone please give me some input on what I should do? If anything? I am at the point where no matter what I do, no matter how much I do. I am still miserable. My D.O.C. is "H" which I cant always get and I also talke pills everyday, ie; Vicodine, oxy's, perks, etc.
vicki
vicki
Related discussions
-
Methadone Disaster (3 replies):I have been on Methadone for 6 years now. I got serious ...[more]
-
first day on methadone detox...wish me luck! (28 replies):Hello all! This is my first time on any detox program, a...[more]
-
methadone question (7 replies):My daughter has had a history of abusing oxycodine. She...[more]
-
any one new to the fourm,and lurking / open fourm (63 replies):i was wondering if there was anyone new to the fourm wh...[more]
-
new here, anyone here on methadone maintaince? (50 replies):hi all, is anyone here on methadone for getting off drug...[more]
-
Methadone clinic appropriate? (49 replies):I have been addicted to Norco for the past two years. I ...[more]
-
U guys are gr8 (4 replies):I just wanted to thanks everyone for all the wonderful i...[more]
-
Methadone Clinics (2 replies):How long does a person go to a methadone clinic before t...[more]
-
slow methadone detox (68 replies):Anyone out there have any experience in detoxing slow fr...[more]
-
Catalytic anti-bodies? (78 replies):Has anyone heard of a antibody being developed that cons...[more]
Post Comment
Related Communities
Recent Videos
Related Expert Forums
Recent Activity
Most Popular Trackers
RSS
Expert Activity
Community Members
Most Viewed Health Pages
As Mrm said there are studies that suggest irreversible damage in some while other suggest that some can recover normal functioning.
Based on my own experience, I believe long-time chronic users like us will never return to a pre-using state. In liew of other solutions, I tend to think Methadone is the best course for us. I should say, however, that I have never used Methadone, so I'm basing my conclusions on incomplete evidence.
I hesitate to adopt MMT for a number of reasons. The main one is I object to the present laws and philosophy that govern the methadone clinic system. It is still conducted too much like a chemically based criminal parole system. Additionally, methadone's extreme withdrawal syndrome implies that, once dependant on methadone, one surrenders all power over one's life to the employees, high and low, of the clinic system. That is something I will never do. If I could receive MMT in a private medical setting, I believe I would have at least tried MMT by now.
I'm surprised at your reception at the clinic. The ones I contacted were more than anxious for me to enroll, albeit for their pointless 21-day detox. To go straight to MMT, I needed to prove I'd been clinically treated for opiate addiction and had failed. Not too hard to do after 30 years of using. Perhaps you should call a few more of them.
Thomas
peace,
amber
Thomas, I dont believe I can do this another 10 years like you. You sure give me some hope. Is your story posted here somewhere? What made you change? I still have this constant internal tug or war going on inside. The "me' that wants to get clean and the "me" who would love to stay loaded. What changed that for you? I have also heard about the MMT clinics and how your controled by the idiots that run the clinics and your dosed when they feel like it and it determines whether you bow down to them or not. Sounds like some dealers I've delt with in the past.
Do you know anything about buprenex or buprenorphine?(not sure of the spelling) Can a doc give you a script for this?
I have so many questions. I hope that I am not imposing on this message board but there is such little real help out there and you guys sound like you know what your talking about.
thanks
vickie
My hats off to you! Keep winning!
Nod
I didn't realize you weren't leaving the house either. I feel so bad for you. I agree that maybe you should take your b/f to the doc with you. I do have a little experience dealing with agoraphobia. My sister was a full blown agoraphobic, she did not leave her house at all in 2 years. I know you say yuk to the paxil, but honest to God, it changed her life. They gave her severe migraines at first too. They went away for the most part, she takes imitrex for the flare ups. She felt like **** for the first 3 months she was on it, but then it all just seemed to kick in. With those meds, buspar for bad panic attacks, and some counseling once a week, she's almost fine now. She also says that forcing herself to get on a treadmill every day helped her immensely. If you think that might help, drag one into your bedroom if you have to. I don't know if any of these things will help you, I just wish there was something more helpful I could do. I'm sure you have tried to calmly explain to your b/f how bad you feel, just keep assuring him that you will get help. I'll be thinking of you. Keep us posted.
suboxone physician locator:
http://buprenorphine.samhsa.gov/bwns_locator/index.html
Thomas
and found one right around the corner. Fate brought me to this message board today.
When I call what do I say? "I am a junkie looking for buprenex?"
What would be the best approach?
I hate when docs treat patients like **** as soon as they find out they are an addict....its like we are poison to them.
Remember, this is not the time to hold back on your doctor. Tell the doc the truth about how much you've been using. If you enter suboxone treatment, come back and tell us how you're doing. I'm particularly interested. Medical treatment isn't in my financial picture now, but somewhere down the road I want to try bup, too. Good luck!
Thomas
http://www.etfrc.com/SuboxoneResources.htm
Benzo use, tolerance and addiction can cause profound feelings of anxiety and fear. When it happens, many of us do not identify it with drug use. In fact, many doctors miss the signs.
Thomas
i know if you take them for a long time it can be deadly
getting off them cold turkey, it is advised to see a doc to get off them after prolonged use.
peace hippy
I was up to about 2 mg. of Klonopin daily and 2 mg. of Xanax at night, now I'm down to about 1/8 of Klonopin 2x a day and 2 mg. of Xanax in the evenings. I'm weaning SLOWLY - but I will say as soon as I started taking the benzo's, I had immediate depression which I didn't realize was occurring until later. Aren't benzo's central nervous system depressants? Anyway, they may not work that way with everyone, but they did with me. And I also developed agoraphobia and I couldn't drive when I was coming off of them. I don't have that with the slow taper method that I'm going through now, but I hope as I get down to a lower dosage that it doesn't happen. Tolerance can develop after taking benzos for a long time while you're on the same dosage and you can experience withdrawal symptoms while taking them even without decreasing your dose (read a lot of stories on the yahoo.benzo board about this occurrence).
The immediate and overwhelming symptom of Xanax withdrawal is anxiety and fear. Ironically, anxiety and panic disorder are frequently what people start taking Xanax to treat. Xanax has a short-half life in the body of about 10-11 hours, that is, it leaves your system quickly relative to other drugs of the same class. With the development of tolerance and dependence, you can indeed experience withdrawal symptoms between regular doses. This is what happened to me.
Being ignorant of those facts, I assumed that the anxiety condition I started Xanax to treat had gotten worse. So I asked for an increase in my Xanax dosage. The symptoms went away for a while, but eventually returned worse than ever.
Sensing that my doctor didn't know enough to really help me, I sought out experts in benzo treatment and addiction on the internet. By doing a google search on Heather Ashton, a world-class expert on benzo addiction and recovery, I found the info I needed. Many of her writings are on www.benzo.org.uk
Based on my experience, I believe you'd benefit from switching to Valium, a benzo with a 100 to 200 hour half life. I switch ed to Valium and found that I was much more emotionally stable on it. I was eventually able to slowly taper over many months, until I broke free for good.
I wrote to you because I experienced feelings that amounted to agoraphobia while on Xanax. Anyway, food for thought.
Thomas
Congrats on your ever-expanding success in slaying the demon!
I read a post you made further up in this thread regarding your use of Tylenol.
I'd suggest going to an alternate. Tylenol, if taken for an extended period of time can cause damage.
As an alternate, I'd consider Ibuprofin. It's available over the counter, but (in my case) a prescription of 800mgs is better and more cost effective, provided you have insurance that covers such frivelous things as "medicine".
Here's to your brighter future.
Peace,
Methman
I just want to echo what mrmichael said about methadone clinics, that some are good and some not as good. The clinic I work in seems to strive for excellence, and considers counseling a VERY important part of Methadone Maintenance Treatment. (It's considered Treatment, not just getting a drug.) In my experience, the people who complain the most about our clinic are the people who are not interested in being clean, just want to use the clinc so they won't get sick in the morning etc, and do not want to keep their appointments, nor dose during the regular hours, or they want to keep using other drugs, or try to falsify their urines etc. In our clinic if you come with an open heart and really want help, you will not be one of the complainers. We also have a great take home schedule. Some people come to the clinic once every other week only. After a year of that, you can come just once a month to pick up 27 bottles. We do require continued counseling, and some people who have been there awhile do complain about that.
H.
I use to go to methadone clinics for well over a decade and have a couple questions.
Why are methadone clinic settings always in the "bad" part of town? In my experience, I've been to 4 different clinics in four different towns over my tenure as a pink juice junkie. Each one, the client has to drive into the economic war zone for dosing. I can understand that setting a clinic in a ritzy part of town would never wash. After all, who would want to have to bump into a (god forbid) addict on his way to Starbucks in the morning?
Second question: I've always wondered why it was so easy to get an increase in dose levels simply by asking. In each clinic I've been in, all you have to do is tell the person that takes your green that you would like X mgs more. That's it. Seems to me, if the client's best interest was paramount, at least a nurse would call you back and ask, "Why".
Third question: If someone that has, say... a two week takehome privlege, comes in and says, "Uh.. I am sorry, but I am a little short this week. I get paid on Friday. Can I make it up to you next time I come in?" gets his/her takehomes dropped to daily until the funds are coughed up?
Fourth question: I was on monthly takehomes. They started that about a year before I got off methadone. And as a monthly customer, it was part of my agreement that I had to attend a councelling session every other month. During those councelling sessions, the only questions I was asked was;
a. Are you working?
b. How is your home life?
c. Are you using?
IMHO, that ain't much of a councelling session. I'm not suggesting that they solve all of life's problems. It was like they have this bullet list in front of em;
* Ask about work
* Ask about their home life
* See if they'll volunteer they are using
I'm not trying to down meth clinics at all. There are different people with different needs that come to a methadone clinic. I'm sure after being inside one for a period of time, you can kind of tell that the guy that FELL into the waiting room holding a kit and smoking a doob ain't gonna be interested in talking detox THAT particular day. Adversely, there are the pain patients that come in the door. Wonder why "da man" makes them go to such places to help them live a decent life? For that matter, why do they put clinics in parts of town that offer more drugs per square inch than New York has hotdog stands? I mean... don't you think that the poor heroin addict that's TRYING their best to get off junk has enough on their plates without having temptation shoved in their face every time they try to "do right"?
Please consider this post a "constructive rant", nothing more. I am just trying to put a few things in front of you that kind of bother me and see if there is a simple answer that I may have overlooked.
Next week, my Andy Roonie-esk rant will be on the shrinking meat in Wendy's hamburgers since the demise of Dave.
Peace,
Methman
Thomas
When i got off the percs last summer, i got the worst headaches every day(for almost three weeks). They were so bad, i would lay on the floor by the tub and few times puked. I've never been one to get headaches, so i knew these were the rebound variety, whereby the opiates were detaching from the receptors.
They were one of my worst withdrawal symptoms; BUT thankfully, like all the other ones, went away..........and they will for you too.
Great job on making it to day 20 friend..
Take Care and continued strength to you.
percs
Anyway, what I found were pages and pages of case studies where people withdrawing from benzos (mostly xanax)were feeling the exact same way you are. Apparently if you withdraw from them and not even necessarily quit taking them, it can cause that. Even if you are just having mini withdrawals between doses. Maybe that does have something to do with it?? I have absolutely no idea what to suggest you do with that information, but I wanted to pass it along. If you think it might help you, go to google or probably any other search and just type in addiction+agoraphobia and read what comes up. Or I can send you some links if you want, maybe you can read up on it and know what to say to your doc when you go back?
Thomas, I was so happy to read that post this morning about benzos. I have been off of Xanax for about 15 months now and besides the ultram is was the worst experience I have ever been through. I can't believe it, I came on here just to write KimH about her mother so I was so happy to see your post. Sometimes, those withdrawals don't hit until way later and you can really get sick from them. If you have any questions or doubt what I'm saying go to benzo.org.uk forum like Thomas suggested. Donor, one of my main w/d symtoms I had was I did not want to leave the house and I didn't want to talk to anyone and that is so not me. I'm thinking of you, because you seem to be going through so much. KimH, please keep any eye on your mother and anyone else using benzos, be careful. The withdrawals can be awful without help. I don't mean to scare anyone, but benzos are not to be taken lightly. This is not medical advice by any means, it is just from personal experience.
Good luck to everyone and have a better day!
Take care,
Sandra
Thomas
Well, #1 Why are all Methadone clinics in a Bad part of town.
Um, well, I've only worked in 2 clinics in 2 different cities. At the first one the clinic moved from a good part of town to a better part of town, within a hospital. The neighbors were up in arms! The most frequently expressed fear that I can remember would be that the addicts would toss used needles into their yards and the children would find them and get diseases. The clinic got moved there anyway.
In the clinic I work in now, the clinic is in kind of an isolated industrial area, not residential, not a drug area...with a lovely auto-junk-yard across the way. (But you can't see most of the junk cars.) Another clinic I know of is in another industrial kind of area
A third one is in a hospital. So I guess I can't really address that question. Except that I guess people in richer neighborhoods might have more political power than people in poorer neighborhoods. Zoning and all. Ya know how it is.
and #2, why is it so easy to get an increase in dosage. I don't know...that doesn't sound like our clinic. The person who collects the money doesn't have anything to do with dosing. After the first month (when it is done through the medical staff), the patient discusses it with their counselor, and he/she submits the request. Everytime someone goes up or down, the patient's reaction to the dosage is checked about a week later by the dosing nurse. Above 120 mg, to increase dose, you have to have a medical consult. Then a plan is made, after if you need more, another consult. I consider being able to go up easily, progress. In the older days, which you may remember, it was considered BAD to be on a higher dose, and so some people weren't getting therpeutic doses, so they kept using. And the clinic would wonder why.
and #3, yes, the financial reality of a moneymaking clinic is a bummer. People say to me, "Oh, you say you care so much about us, but, boom, as soon as we don't pay, you detox us off at breakneck speed." I think the administration has learned to be very careful about people's promises...just like most other businesses. You can't go into a department store and say, "I'll take this shirt and bring you the money in a few days." I wish we could dose all needy people for free. But then I wouldn't have a job.
#4 About your lousy counseling experience: is that the way your counseling sessions were when you first started? Maybe your every-other-month counselor didn't think you needed counseling if you'd been at the clinic for a long time, just to be checked on, just to see if you were still on course. Me, I am trained as a therapist, as well as having drug and alcohol abuse certification, as well as personal experience. The kind of counseling that the every-other-month counselor was giving you seems totally boring to me. I'd rather work at McDonald's. I do therapy with my patients that allow me to, and the more interested they are, the more interesting it is for me, and the more they grow and change. It occurs to me to ask you if you had Wanted more counseling? If you had, would they have given it to you? And, also, some counselors haven't had good training and, duh, they don't know how to do anything but ask that kind of questions.
#5 re pain patients: we have people in pain on our clinic, but we say we do not treat pain, we only treat addiction. They have to go to a pain clinic to get their pain treated. This part is still confusing to me. I'm trying to figure out how, for example, if a person is an addict, but hasn't used in a long time, and methadone really helps him pain, he goes to a pain clinic and told he can't use methadone for pain control because he is an addict...go figure. Maybe that's just around where I work.
(I worked in a half-way house once which had a crack house accross the street!)
Well, if you've got any more comments, I'd be glad to respond!
Lee