endometriosis causing pain....making me want my pain meds...

so i have been thinking....and wondering what to do. if you do not know, i have 'legitiment' health problems, to where i was perscribed my pain meds to begin with. they helped me to get up and go to work, function, etc. i do not have cancer, or any life threatening disease (just to clear that up) i have endometriosis (which causes pain a lot) and on top of that many stomach problems. i have been told that taking pain meds is bad for my stomach, but it was the only thing that seemed to help the endo pain. i had tried everything else to no avail, and went for the pain meds. i know that my problem was also, if i had some pain i would take them, but not neccessarily very severe pain. a lot of it was that i was so afraid to be in that much pain again (had to go to the ER twice before they finally did surgery) that i would take my pain meds the first sign of pain. and then of course that led to dependency. the last time i got my RX filled was in the beginning of november, and i am due back this month. i want to go, yet i don't want to go. i don't want to live with pain every day, but i don't want to be on pain meds every day either.

it is wearing me out and i am not quite sure what to do. as far as talking to my doctor, well he is a greedy %^&$# and i am looking for a new one, so i can't really go to him and expect good results. he is the one that told me changing my diet wouldn't even help my situation!!

any advice, greatly appreciated!

[BlotOutTheSun]

sounds liek your in between a rock and a hard place, to live in pain, or to live in an addiction, have you tried all OTC meds? sure you have, maybe talk to another doctor about it, tell him how far youve come, and you dont want to turn back, there has to be a better solution than taking pills for the rest of your life, good luck, stay strong youll get through this

[avisg]

I feel for you because I have been threw it myself . Honestly NSIAD work better for endo ,then opiates . Have they tried luperon yet. You should look into alternative thing someone remmended a Nsiad for PMS cramping that should help with endo pain let me see if I can find the name of it ....What has your doctor tried besides pain meds ?

[avisg]

take a look at this it is the protocal for treating endo..
Conventional medical treatment focuses on pain management, reduction of estrogen stimulation, and preservation of fertility. Often treatment begins at diagnosis with laparoscopy, when visible lesions are removed or destroyed. The following medications may be used to treat endometriosis:

Oral contraceptives. Estrogen and progesterone combinations are commonly prescribed to manage endometriosis. Oral contraceptives are often prescribed continuously to help maintain endometrial tissue, preventing the eventual sloughing and bleeding that is associated with pain, as well as tissue damage and scarring. Studies have shown that 80 to 100 percent of women taking hormone-based therapies experience effective relief (Winkel CA et al 2001).

Analgesics. Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) are commonly prescribed to manage pelvic pain. NSAID treatment may be beneficial for mild pain relief but is often ineffective for severe symptoms. Side effects of NSAIDs include gastrointestinal pain and ulcers.

Danazol. Danazol is a synthetic form of testosterone used to thin the endometrial lining and reduce levels of estrogen. Danazol has been shown to have some immune-modulating effects as well. In one study, 89 percent of participants on danazol reported symptomatic improvement; 94 percent had improvement based on repeat laparoscopy or laparotomy (Barbieri RL et al 1982). Danazol’s side effects include deepening of the voice and unwanted hair growth, in addition to sensitivity to sunlight.

Progestins. Progestins are synthetic progesterone derivatives prescribed when estrogen therapy is contraindicated or poorly tolerated. Progestins function similarly to other hormone therapies by inhibiting ovulation and menstruation. Ovulation often does not return promptly upon discontinuation of treatment.

Gonadotrophin-releasing hormone agonists. Gonadotrophin-releasing hormone agonists are used to induce a menopause-like state. Their long-term use will inhibit the release of luteinizing hormone and follicle-stimulating hormone from the pituitary, resulting in very low levels of estrogens and androgens, which will inhibit ovulation and menstruation. These drugs do not have the same effects on sex-hormone binding globulin as danazol and thus do not cause a rise in free testosterone, which translates into fewer testosterone-related side effects.

Other drugs that have been studied for endometriosis include aromatase inhibitors (agents that interfere with estrogen and progesterone synthesis), selective estrogen receptor modulators (agents that prevent estrogen from binding to its receptors and exerting its full biological effect), and immunomodulators, including interferon.

Nutritional and Supplement Therapy
Essential fatty acids. Supplementation with essential fatty acids can reduce the inflammation associated with endometriosis by interfering with the production of prostaglandins or cytokines that mediate the pain and many other symptoms seen with endometriosis.

Docosahexaenoic acid and eicosapentaenoic acid. Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) are omega-3 long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids found primarily in the oils of fatty fish such as salmon, mackerel, sardines, herring, trout, cod, kipper, pilchard, and menhaden. DHA and EPA compete with arachidonic acid in the production of prostaglandins, thereby reducing inflammation (Calder PC 2001; Connor WE 2001; Leaf A 2002). Fish oils also reduce the production of cytokines, such as interleukin-1, interleukin-2, and tumor necrosis factor (TNF), all of which are involved in producing and maintaining the inflammation associated with endometriosis. DHA and EPA have also been shown to down-regulate activity of immune system inflammatory cells and production of antibodies that are involved in the symptoms of endometriosis (French L 2005; Gazvani MR et al 2001; Yano Y 1992).
Gamma-linolenic acid. Gamma-linolenic acid (GLA) is an omega-6 fatty acid found in borage seed oil, evening primrose oil, and black currant oil. GLA is metabolized in the body to series 1 prostaglandins, which decrease the inflammatory response and inhibit arachidonic acid from forming inflammatory leukotrienes (Leventhal LJ et al 1993). Precursors to GLA can also be taken to stimulate this anti-inflammatory biochemical pathway. Linoleic acid is an omega-6 fatty acid commonly found in corn, safflower, sesame, soybean, sunflower, walnut, and grape seed oils. Alpha-linolenic acid is an omega-3 fatty acid found in flax, canola, soybeans, walnuts, pumpkin seeds, and perilla seeds. The enzyme delta-6 desaturase converts linoleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid to GLA and requires magnesium, vitamin B6, and zinc as cofactors.
Vitamin E. Vitamin E is a fat-soluble vitamin that acts as a free-radical scavenger of lipids and fats. It protects cell membranes and prevents damage to membrane-associated enzymes. The most common form of vitamin E in American diets is gamma-tocopherol, which has been shown to decrease TNF-alpha (elevated in individuals with endometriosis) (FNB/IM 2000). Vitamin E succinate and vitamin A were found to reduce indicators of toxicity and damage in laboratory mice from dioxin exposure (Alsharif NZ et al 2004). In addition, one study suggested that women with endometriosis are under oxidative stress, which suggests a role for vitamin E as an antioxidant (Jackson LW et al 2005). Another lab study indicated that vitamin E inhibited endometrial cells (Foyouzi N et al 2004).

Vitamin C. Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) is found in many fruits and vegetables, especially citrus fruit. Vitamin C appears to increase T lymphocyte activity, phagocyte function, leukocyte mobility, and interferon and antibody production. As an antioxidant, ascorbic acid can protect cells from reactive oxygen species known to cause tissue damage and disease. Estrogen, oral contraceptives, and smoking (along with other forms of nicotine) increase vitamin C excretion, resulting in measurably lower plasma levels of vitamin C (Thorp VJ 1980; Lykkesfeldt J et al 2000).

Beta-carotene. Beta-carotene is a precursor to vitamin A. It is a carotenoid found readily in fruits, vegetables, grains, and oils. It has antioxidant activity, prevents lipid peroxidation, and may reduce free radical DNA damage (Omenn GS 1998; Manda K et al 2003). Beta-carotene and other carotenoids provide approximately 50 percent of the vitamin A needed in the American diet (Hickenbottom SJ et al 2002). Vitamin A has protective effects against damage from dioxin exposure, which has been implicated as a cause of endometriosis (Alsharif NZ et al 2004). In animal studies, beta-carotene has shown the ability to suppress the angiogenesis necessary for maintaining the growth of ectopic endometrial tissue (Tee MK et al 2006).

[avisg]

Milk thistle. Milk thistle (Silybum marianum) is a member of the Compositae family. Seeds are often used medicinally for liver disease. The main active constituent is silymarin, which has been shown to inhibit TNF (Manna SK et al 1999). Studies have found that TNF is elevated in women with endometriosis. Constituents of milk thistle have been demonstrated to provide antioxidant and free-radical-scavenging functions and to inhibit lipid peroxidation (Flora K et al 1998). Silymarin may increase estrogen clearance by means of its ability to inhibit the enzyme beta-glucuronidase (Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality 2000).

Natural progesterone. Natural progesterone is structurally identical to endogenous progesterone. It is synthesized from diosgenin, which is isolated from wild yam or soy and then converted to pregnenolone and progesterone in a laboratory. Progesterone has been shown to reduce inflammation in endometriosis and limit the growth of uterine tissue (Bulun SE et al 2006).

Nutritional Modulation of Estrogen
One strategy that may be helpful with endometriosis is to modulate estrogen through nutritional means. Estrogen has many different metabolites, and research has shown that some metabolites are stronger and more dangerous than others. Certain nutrients, such as indole-3-carbinol, may help increase weaker estrogens while decreasing stronger estrogens. Among patients with endometriosis, this finding may have two benefits. First, it would reduce the stimulatory effect of estrogen on the endometrial tissue, which may reduce the buildup of blood during the early part of the menstrual phase. Second, favorably altering the ratio of weaker to stronger estrogens may reduce the risk of breast and ovarian cancer.

Specifically, indole-3-carbinol has been documented to increase the ratio of weaker 2-hydroxyestrone to the stronger and carcinogenic 16-alpha hydroxyestrone (Reed GA et al 2005). It accomplishes this by encouraging synthesis of additional 2-hydroxyestrone (Yoshida M et al 2004).

A related natural approach to estrogen modulation may be found in a compound called diindolylmethane, a byproduct of indole-3-carbinol that has shown many cancer-fighting effects.

Endometriosis and Other Diseases
Endometriosis has been associated with an increased risk of conditions associated with abnormal immune responses: systemic lupus erythematosus, rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, and Sjögren’s syndrome (Sinaii N et al 2002). Allergies, eczema, and asthma caused by a hypersensitivity reaction of the immune system are also increased in women with endometriosis. Fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, and hypothyroidism are significantly

[hope08]

well the thing with me is, i can't take a lot of nsaid's or anything really with asprin and what not in them. i have a hole in my stomach already, and i don't want to make it any bigger. i have heard that when you take pain meds not only does it damage your liver, but your stomach also. so i really am stuck between a rock and hard place, it's horrible. what i liked about my narcotic was that it took away the pain period, so even if it was bothering my stomach problems i didn't actually feel it. does that make sense? anyway, for my endo i have tried the following: all OTC pain relivers, anaprox, celebrex, tylenol 3, darvocet, vicodin...i am currently on continual b control (which has reaked havoc on my emotions, weight and overall everything. it is a MEDICALLY INDUCED MENOPAUSE. i am 25!!!) I have not take lupron due to the emotional overload i got just from the hormones of the b control. i have done the whole diet change and natural alternatives, and it hasn't helped. i kind of helped me stomach probs, but didn't even touch the endo. it sucks.

[hope08]

forgot to add, along with the natural alt's i have tried a Progestin Cream you rub on....i go to this endo support group online, similar to this, and have tried So many things on there. A lot of those women still just take their pain meds, but not so much have as many stomach issues as i do. that is the kicker!

[BlotOutTheSun]

well most will tell you not to use at all, but really it doesnt seem like your left with much of a choose, unless they have a medical breakthrough to solve endo or somekinda new medicine for it, im not telling you to take pills by no means, but i hate to know someone has legit pain and still has a strong will not to take pain killers, i dont want to make a suggestion either way, ill keep you in my prayers, good luck

[BlotOutTheSun]

well most will tell you not to use at all, but really it doesnt seem like your left with much of a choose, unless they have a medical breakthrough to solve endo or somekinda new medicine for it, im not telling you to take pills by no means, but i hate to know someone has legit pain and still has a strong will not to take pain killers, i dont want to make a suggestion either way, ill keep you in my prayers, good luck

[BlotOutTheSun]

well most will tell you not to use at all, but really it doesnt seem like your left with much of a choose, unless they have a medical breakthrough to solve endo or somekinda new medicine for it, im not telling you to take pills by no means, but i hate to know someone has legit pain and still has a strong will not to take pain killers, i dont want to make a suggestion either way, ill keep you in my prayers, good luck

[BlotOutTheSun]

well most will tell you not to use at all, but really it doesnt seem like your left with much of a choose, unless they have a medical breakthrough to solve endo or somekinda new medicine for it, im not telling you to take pills by no means, but i hate to know someone has legit pain and still has a strong will not to take pain killers, i dont want to make a suggestion either way, ill keep you in my prayers, good luck

[BlotOutTheSun]

well most will tell you not to use at all, but really it doesnt seem like your left with much of a choose, unless they have a medical breakthrough to solve endo or somekinda new medicine for it, im not telling you to take pills by no means, but i hate to know someone has legit pain and still has a strong will not to take pain killers, i dont want to make a suggestion either way, ill keep you in my prayers, good luck

[BlotOutTheSun]

well most will tell you not to use at all, but really it doesnt seem like your left with much of a choose, unless they have a medical breakthrough to solve endo or somekinda new medicine for it, im not telling you to take pills by no means, but i hate to know someone has legit pain and still has a strong will not to take pain killers, i dont want to make a suggestion either way, ill keep you in my prayers, good luck

[avisg]

There are MANY other options that can still be tried . The med I am talking about is Ponstel...

[shelly405]

Painkillers/meds are for pain. If you have the type of pain you say (And I know, I had the same problem) then Vicodin is not going to hurt you too much more.

I love this board and have learned much from it, but there is a distinction between being in pain and NEEDING meds and taking for the hell of it.

If you can take your pills as prescribed until you get through this - then do it. And don't feel guilty because you need them. I am probably going to get jumped for this, so I am hunkering down for it...

I have chronic/constant pain, and I have talked to my Dr. about addiction, and believe it or not, she says the best thing to do (in my case) is to try to find an alternative to Vicodin, but continue to take something.

It really bothers me when folks say since you abuse this, you can't have anything, ever, even if your limbs are rotting off. And yes, I am stone cold sober right now, haven't had ANYTHING in weeks. And yes - I am in pain. I know this may sound a bit acidic, but if you need pain meds, you need them. Don't feel bad about it.
Shell

[Angel929]

Pain killers are called "Pain Killers" because they get rid of pain.  If you are in chronic pain, and as long as you are taking it as prescribed, then do what you have to do.  A lot of people, like me, started that way.  Just keep in mind that people become addicted when you take this stuff for a period of time, and as long as you are aware, by all means..... Dont suffer!!!  This is what these meds are suppose to be used for.  Good Luck and take care!!
Angel929

[bmc1976]

Have you tried Etodolac? I actually had it prescribed for siatic (sciatic) pain. I read up on it on the internet and it's mainly prescribed for stomach cramps during pms. I've tried many different non narcotics and that was one of them. My wife took one the other day for cramps and she said it worked wonders. Just thought I'd throw it out there.
Brian

[hope08]

bumping this for ppl to read about in my new post....urgent care....

[hope08]

I have never heard of that medicine. Is it a nsaid, non-inflamm, narcotic, hormone...? the problem with my doctor, is i have reccommended things to possibly try (that are non narcotic) but he doesn't seem to want to venture away from pain meds and hormones...which is why i am looking for a new doctor now!

[avisg]

Then by all means look for another doctor, if he is not will to treat you .
Masking your symptoms is not  fixing  your  problem .If all he has done put  you on  pain meds then there are many other things that can be done .

[LIZZIE LOU]

please excuse this reply if you have already posted this in the past.

i was just wondering, since you are so young, if you have already had any children.

[hope08]

no i have not had children. talk of a hysterectomy was up (just because that is the only thing they can do to 'cure' it, even though its not %100) but i am so young, and making a decision on whether or not i want kids ever can't be done right now. who knows if i will?! the big problem with finding a new doctor, is finding one that has knowledge on the disease. there is no cure for it and so little is known about it that a lot of docs don't know where to begin as far as treatment goes...

[avisg]

where are you from ?

[hope08]

ohio, why?

i believe the closest doctor that i have searched online with semi good results about endo, it in PA. That is too far :( If i had the money i would go wherever i needed to!

[avisg]

are you near dayton ? or columbus

[lil' plum]

I also had endometriosis years ago that led to major infertility problems although thankfully I was able to conceive and carry my son to 7 1/2 months.  He now is 6 ft. 5 inches tall and healthy as a horse.  Then we adopted......she has been an "adventure" to say the least, then when I remarried I ended up raising my step son so I have been a mother 3 times, but all in different ways.  With that out of the way, I'd like to give you a little information about the words "addicted" and "dependent"  When a patient is addicted to pain medication it is usually because they are not taking the pain meds in the way they are meant to be taken.  If they are looking for that "buzz" they can't find it unless they take more meds than their pain requires.  Being "dependent" is a whole other story.  After becoming 100% disabled due to 7 back surgeries (long story) my body has become dependent on pain meds in order to get out of bed.  There is no "high" but these meds do help stop pain "messages" from getting to the brain.  I'm with a pain specialist who monitors the level of pain.  They can tell the difference in people who are addicted and those who are dependent.  If I was to stop taking my meds, my body would probably go into shell shock for about 3 days, however psychologically I wouldn't be freaking out trying to find my next "fix."  But if I was addicted, then not only would my body have to go thru withdrawals but my brain would need reprograming or be washed clean of the drugs.  The habit of taking medication would have to be stopped, and these very strong drugs are extremely difficult to stop cold turkey if you are taking them for the wrong reason.  Most addicts are looking for the "buzz"......but chronic pain patients are looking to have their pain lessened.  It's a whole other game.  Addiction vs. dependency are totally different.  I was on one of the stronges opiates there is and due to some "difficult" side effects I just quit taking them (of course under a dr's supervision.  Even though someone is not trying to get high, their body stills expects that medication.  So that's the reason for being weaned off of it under a doctor's supervision.  So I wouldn't worry about becoming addicted to a drug if you are taking it with the sole purpose of helping your pain.  But if one is taking a mind altering medication the same way alcoholics drink alcohol......to get high, then that's when it becomes a problem.  I would say to keep the lines of communication with your doctor open.  Explain your fear of becoming addicted.  But in my opinion (and I'm not a doctor but I do have a lot of experience with chronic pain) just the fact that you are worried you might become addicted is a sign of someone who isn't interested in getting that "addict's high."  I hope this helped.  And YES, endometriosis is extremely painful.  It can be debilitating, and it's one of the reasons women are in such pain during their cycles.  Sincerely, Lil plum

[hope08]

first off, let me say thank you for such good feedback. it really helped. it is so hard to find someone that has endo around here, so i am always on different websites, trying to get more info....congrats on having some wonderful children also. did you ever get on the lupron shots or anything when you did have the endo? any surgeries to remove it? i have not been to a pain specialist, although i would like to go, to get more info on managing pain and all. i did email one around here to just see if they even had endo patients, and they said they did and had a procedure for it. it is called hypogastric plexus nerve block, ever heard of it? sounded to me like masking the pain, not fixing it. something along the lines of they find the nerve that is signaling to your brain the endo is causing pain, and then they do something to the nerve....kind of creeped me out. with me being young still, i am afraid to take any 'drastic' measures in all this. and that is another reason i was concerned about pain meds, and meds all together. if i am going to have this for another 20 plus years, i don't want to be on pain meds for that long, seems like forever! it is just really scary, and i have yet to have someone around that can really understand, its hard. i feel like i am complaining about not feeling well way too much and it may be getting on peoples nerves. i don't have a lot of close friends anymore, and the last time i said "i don't feel good" my boyfriend responded with "when don't you not feel good?" and that kind of hurt my feelings. but anyway, don't want to get all sob story on you, just letting you know the tip of the iceberg!

[allaboutmary]

I had horrible endometreosis. I was in my 20's and had no children. I had a wonderful doctor who opened me up and lazered all the chocolate cysts and endo seeds out.  I had stuff attached to ovaries, tubes and uterus. I was a mess. He lifted my uterus out and even cleaned up behind it ( I know sounds funny) lol  He said it was one of the worst cases he had ever seen.  It was painful for a week, but I had great results and no pain from endo after that. It didn't grow back either, which they said was unusual. That was many years ago. I know they have even better procedures now that they sometimes can do it laparscopy ( a few small holes). If this is an option for you I would highley recommend it. Then you could be free of these pain pills. Keep trying to find a doctor to free you of this pain.
Back then I did not take pain pills only advil and many hot baths to ease pain.  Hang in there !   Mary

[avisg]

WOW it not coming back is odd I had to get mine lasered  every two years from 17 on . They went threw my belly button so many times that it is unusable anymore for surgery.......
avis

[allaboutmary]

I know , I was very very lucky.  I did grow fibroid tumors in my late 30's but no endo.  The doctors were surprised.  After the surgery they told me if I wanted children I must get pregnant right away because it would most definatley grow back.  
Did you get any relief from the pain inbetween surguries?
Mary

[avisg]

ohh yeah for about a year and ahalf .......then the pain would start to come back ....I did this until about 28 ...at 26 i got a tubal .... after that they lasered one more time cleaned me out . the doctor figured the tubal would help lessen the endo and it did ....then at 32 it all had to come out ...
avis

[hope08]

oh good Lord. that sounds not fun at all....just keep me in your prayers as far as finding a good doctor to helP!!!