fioricet addiction

[Connie51]

I have been reading this forum for a couple weeks. I have admitted my fioricet problem to my husband and am ready to help myself. I have tried before but am now determined. There does not seem to be much online about this drug but am desperate to find someone who has had the same addiction. It has a barbituate it so it is tricky to come off of but I hear it can be done.
Anyone who has been there it would be a miracle to hear from you as I have never met anyone with the same addiction.
A bit of information as to where I am at.
I am 51 and have been addicted to them for around 7 years. I take between 8 and 10 EVERY day. It started from needing pain relief from migraines and took off from there. The migrains are no longer a problem.
I am in very poor condition in the morning till I take two.
Please if any one knows of a tapering schedule or has been there I will appreciate anything you have to say. I am aware of seizures. That is why I need help from another fioricet addict (recovering)or on a taper. The people on this forum are so kind, I am so glad I have found you all.
Thank you

[52161314liuyi]

ddddd

[DubeMechanic]

Unfortunately, I dont know anything about fioricet, but Ive read of others here that have. If you look through the posts you should find them.

You do have to be careful, but it is doable!

Take care

[Connie51]

Thank you for the response. I do not know what the ddddd means. I have never been on a forum before, perhaps it has a meaning.
I have checked out the archives and there really is not any information about someone who has been taking this much for this long. There are no addictionologist in my area.The Dr. who was perscribing it died last year so I can not contact him....obviously.I then found another avenue to purchase it. I guess I have faith in hearing from someone who has been addicted to this drug or one that is similar. I was in a rehab for one week in May. I made it another week and returned to it(the fioricet). My insurance will not cover another rehab in one year. I am much more desperate and filled with despair this time.

Help

[never to far from fiorinal]

I have taken fioricet for 20 years. I try not to let it control me but if I have them I take more then 10 a day. f I do' have them I take Ecedrin. 4 in the morning to take the eadge off.
By the end of a week I get a bus from the Ecedrin. I always wish it was fioricet but I do survive without them. When I have fioricet I give them to by boyfriend so he can help me to not take them all at once.

If I can do without them anyone can!

[never to far from fiorinal]

I should have used spell check. Sorry for all of the mistakes!

[The Golden Slipper]

Hello,

I am a fioricet/fiorinal addict.  I have been struggling with this addiction for 15 years now.  It started with migraines at first I took them only for the pain and they worked very well.

I now take Imitrex for the migraines and it works well.  However I am still abusing the fioricet.  I take from 6-8 a day so I am pretty close to your amount.  I have been through detox a few times where they gave me phenobarbital for the withdrawal. I have found the hardest part of withdrawal has been the headaches and extreme anxiety.  The last time I withdrew I was able to taper by taking 1 instead of 2 pills at a time.  My doctor gave me ativan for the anxiety which did help.  Unfortunately as soon as I stopped the ativan the cravings came back and I got another prescription for fioricet.  I am now trying to taper again by cutting back to 1 pill. I only take 2 pills at a time.

I have been told that at the amount I was taking there is no danger of seizure if you go cold turkey.  However, not all doctors are that knowledgable about this and I would not advise you to do that.  I have gone cold turkey once and did not have a seizure but became very depressed and had extreme anxiety for about 3 weeks.  I was given trazadone to help me sleep because I had such insomnia.  Once I started the trazadone I started to feel better.

Fioricet is a dangerous drug and unlike the opiates you do have the danger of seizures.  My suggestion would be to speak to your doctor if you are able.  If you want to taper you could try cutting back by 1 pill.  I would not suggest cold turkey because it could be dangerous.

Please write back. I am at work and will have to sign off in a few minutes but will keep checking back during the day.

Golden Slipper

[bmac]

Barbituites are evil little devils.I am not sure about the withdrawals from fioricet but I am sure one of the guys here
will answer you.Next time you post,ask for a person with a medical background.Someone will help you.I have taken fioricet and I also just read about the drug.I remember taking them when I started getting migrane headaches about 8 years ago.
I have read where barbituite withdrawals are hard,But everyone
here has been thru bad withdrawals,believe me!Get info on
withdrawing from it.I used my primary physician.I ask him to detox me and get me better,he did.
If you have a doc you can see about it,you will get better faster.If you have to cold turkey or taper,these boards will walk you through the how to and the why you feel like ****.Hang tuff and ask until someone answers you.Good luck!
                             bmac

[Connie51]

Thank you so much for responding. Have you taken them for long periods of time without skipping days at all? I am just thinking that perhaps by clearing your body of them at a steady basis the reaction to none would be different. Were you warned of the seizures or did you hear something different about their chances of happening?

Thank you

[Connie51]

Thank you! I am beginning to feel some hope. I have heard several different responses from Doctors that I have recently seen. They usually have to look it up in a book as they have no idea what to do about it and do not even know that there is a barbituate in it. This I have been doing lately. Their response is "check into a rehab".I own 3 small shops and I can not just disappear for 28 days. I feel in my heart there is a way out of this. I feel better hearing from those who are there or have been there.

Anything you know, please share with me. In two weeks I am going on vacation with my husband by the ocean. I am going to try and go down a pill a day but I will only be there a week. With the tapering will I will be down to 0 the day I leave to come home. Will I then start to become sick just as I am returning to work?
I was not told that they were addictive and did not know in the begining what was happening till I hit around 5 a day. It is slowly climbing in order to continue to function. I really do not feel well under 10 but manage to get by with 8 some days.

Thank you again

[OxyDout]

Sorry for stealing the thread but I wanted to know how long it takes to become re-addicted? 2 or 3 days? is it more or less then that? What I mean is, I have been an addict for a while, I stopped, but say I take that "one more pill" and that leads to a couple days of abuse, how many days does it take for me to become addicted aggain. Please let me know what you think! Thanks again!!

GWH

[The Golden Slipper]

Hi Connie,

I heard about the seizures in my first attempt to get clean.  That was in the summer of 1994.  I saw an addiction counselor and he told me not to stop them until he had a chance to speak with the doctor on staff at the clinic.  He warned me about the seizures and, at the time, I had no idea that could happen and was scared shitless!!

The next appt. I had with him he said he had spoken with the doctor and he had said that at that low a daily dose (at the time it was 6 tabs a day) I would not have a seizure. In answer to your question about daily use, I have used them daily for up to 2 years with maybe a day or two break here and there until I could get a new prescription. I had a long period of being clean which lasted 15 months and then I had an appt. with a new doctor and he have me a prescription. Of course I told myself I would only use that 1 prescription and then stop again.  Famous last words as I write this 1-1/2 years later and many prescriptions gone.

I am very depressed since my last slip which was only a week ago.  I feel as though I will never be able to stop thinking about these stupid little white pills.  I'm sure you can relate to this.

Maybe we can get an M.D. to respond to us with some advice as someone suggested in a previous post to you.

Please keep posting and I will keep checking during the day today. I am at work so have to be careful that my boss doesn't come by my desk.

Golden Slipper

[Connie51]

Thank you for sharing with me. May I ask if you are in my age group? Seems that this is kind of an old fashioned drug and that is why not many know much about it. I feel compassion that you are in the same boat and fighting it for such a long time. I am glad you are not taking as many as I am, but yes it is close.

Perhaps we can do this together!
Connie

(oh what a wonderful day that would be!)

[Kritty]

hi-

I am a little confused with the word re-addicted. We are all addicts and if we fell off the band wagon and took a pill then we start all over again. I think you are asking if you take pills for more than 2 days , do you have to start over? I would yes because I am going through the same thing right now. I have been relapsing and it sucks. However, I still come on here to remind myself that I want to stop completely. How many pills are you taking? How many days? I think we want to believe that all the clean time we have is worth something. I think it is even if we relapse because we all have learned a great deal of lessons. However, our bodies will determine the physical end of it. Good luck sweetie, and i will pray for both you and I because I am relapsing as well.

[OxyDout]

I got confused reading your post.  My question is, if I was clean for a while and I took pills for 3-4 days would I go through the physical w/d's again?? I'm pretty sure I would........ just asking, I will pray for you as well. Keep up the good work.

GWH

[The Golden Slipper]

Yes Connie I am close to your age, I will be 45 the end of this month. You could be right about it being an old fashioned drug.  It could be that it just isn't prescribed as often now with all the new migraine medicines on the market. It could also be that it really is only prescribed for headache and the opiates are prescribed for a variety of pain problems.

In my years of trying to get clean I have only met one other person who had an addiction to this drug. It may not be the most popular drug but it certainly has it's hold over us and that's what we have to remember.

How often do you take your pills and how many at a time??  I take 2 every 3 hours and can usually stop at 6 although some days I take 2 more.  I think part of the reason I don't use more is because it is too difficult to keep getting prescriptions and they only give you 20 or 30 with each Rx.

I have not yet moved on to forging scripts or stealing to get the pills and I really don't want it to ever come to that.  it only gets worse if we keep going down the road we're on now.

Please keep in touch and yes it would be great if we could do this together.

God Bless
Golden Slipper

[percsnomas]

Breaking News: "13 year-old Volvos have just been recalled, as they were not deemed safe after all"

[Connie51]

I do not feel as alone as I have been till this moment although I am sorry to hear that you to also are suffering from the same addiction.
When I was in the rehab I felt so out of place because although we all had much in common, there was no one there that I was around that had the same "drug of choice" as they called it. It was mostly youngsters addicted to alcohol, cocaine atc. It was also recreational use. I did not fit in (a lot being my age) and hardly spoke. My use was a deep dark secret. I know that I would just stay to myself and feel horrible if I were to attempt it again. I was no different than anyone, but was unable to share.
I think this can be done on the outside but it will take incrediable strength.

What I have been paying for these wicked things is horrible. I never pictured myself living like this. Who does for that matter. Yes the anxiety about getting "them" is horrible. They are on my mind every waking hour. What will I be like without them.....I forget. All I know is that I used to be a happy-go-lucky person. They have robbed me of that. They have robbed me of anything being joyful.
I am not very good at the computer but I will make an attempt to reach a M.D. Perhaps put out another post.

Thank you for your responses my friend
Colleen

[OxyDout]

too funny, I know I know I know, but I'm already in trouble, I have used for 4 days, It has been pretty minimal especially compared to what I used to do.  I have used vics and oxy, I have not had more then 40mg of oxy in a day, but its still bad.  If anyone is thinking of using again just remember what Im saying now.  OH ****, I ****** UP AGAIN, GOD HELP ME, I ******* HATE THIS, THE ANXIETY, THE PAIN, THE FATIGUE, THIS IS THE WORST ******* PAIN I HAVE EVER FELT, I WILL NEVER DO THIS AGAIN, I HATE LIFE.  

Ok, if nobody understands that they shouldnt relapse afer reading that then I don't know what to tell you because drugs are the devil and we are much better without them.........

God Bless all of you,

GWH

[percsnomas]

Hey Buddy!!
Just remember to forgive yourself and let's go at it again.
They are all steps towards OUR RECOVERY.

[Connie51]

Hi,
I missed your last note when I wrote the last letter. I take 2 within mins.of getting up. I take another around an hour later. After that I take 1 around every two hours. My body starts insisting upon it. They do not last long. I feel that I need that boost to keep me going although I am at the point that they only bring me down. I get much larger scripts from a doctor. Usually around 90 with a couple refills. He is a friend of the family but does not suspect my problem. As I said the doctor who got me started has passed away. He used to give me 100 with 5 or 6 refills. I was not addicted then and they would last a long time. I have NO idea why he gave out an addictive substance like that. I guess I must appear as someone who would never do such a thing. Well I am!!!!I had never even heard of it before. I would not dare do anything illegal because I do not think my husband would forgive me. I have been married to him for 6 years. He could never handle it. I could not either. There are two doctors in my family. Neither know of my problem and I hope they never will. My shame is immense. My husband took it well. He would never even think of taking a drug other than maybe an anti-biotic! I came clean with him last week. This poor man had no idea what he was getting into. He thought it was over when I got out of the rehab. No one even knew I went in.

Do you also feel horrible guilt and shame? The only thing my family keeps questioing is why I never feel well. Some days they make me feel quite sick. I do it any way.

Yes, perhaps together. How wonderful that would be. I have felt VERY alone.

AND God Bless You!

[The Golden Slipper]

We certainly have some things in common, I also have been married to my husband for almost 6 years.  It will be 6 years the end of October.

My husband is very supportive and knows of my addiction although I did not tell him about my latest slip.  Yes, I feel terrible shame and guilt and I'm sure the people on this forum can relate to those feelings as well.

I live in the Boston area and they do have outpatient programs at some of the clinics in this area.  In other words you go to a rehab but on an outpatient basis.  I did do that once and it was 5 nights a week for 4 weeks followed by counseling as aftercare.  I don't know where you live but that might be something you could look into doing.


I did find it worked well for me and am thinking of doing it again.  

Please keep posting

[Connie51]

Boston, oh what a beautiful city!

I live 60 miles North West of New York City in New York State. There is a fairly large size town not far (that is where my stores are) and there is a program there for addictions. The problem is though, you really are not welcome if you are still using. I have talked to them and they want you to go into detox first.This makes it very difficult. That is great that you have somewhere to go that will help you WHILE you are getting off the drug. I wish there was something like that here. It sounds like you can contiue with your life and get support while getting off the fioricet.
Sure do wish I had the time to commute to Boston each night for 4 weeks! It sounds good, it really does. Let's see.....it would be a 3 hour drive there and a 3 hour drive home!!! I go to the Cape a couple times a year, I love it there.
I am glad to hear that you also have a supportive husband but as you already know, we have to do it alone.We will have to muster up all the strenght we have and do it. My husband is kind but he really does not understand why I just can not stop. He has not a clue about any of it. I really hate to do this to him on our only vacation we take together each year but I feel that as I drop the dosage quickly he will be with me if there is a problem. Oh what a mess!!!!!! I only fear that I will start getting sick upon our return. I have no idea what to expect. In the rehab it was cold turkey with the use of Valium (spelling?) The valium took much of it away.
Please take advantage of the program offered up there. I only wish we had the same one here.

Take Care
Connie

[never to far from fiorinal]

when you are not taking fioricet do you take anything to take the edge off? Ativan has helped for me.

[Connie51]

I have never not taken the fioricet except right after the rehab. Then I went right back to it. I have always been afraid to mix. To take one to get off another at the same time. I sure do wish there was an addiction counseler in my area! Apparently there are doctors to get you on....but not off. I did not mean that the way that sounded. My ignorance and my weakness put me here.

[The Golden Slipper]

I have taken Ativan to help me through the withdrawals from the fioricet/fiorinal.  It did help me some to stay relaxed, the problem is you can't stay on Ativan because it also is very addictive.

That was when I relapsed after I stopped the Ativan.  I stopped it because I was afraid of becoming addicted to it. I have a doctor's appt. this Wednesday and I guess I have to explain about my recent relapse.  I feel so ashamed and stupid!!!

It really helps to know there are other people going through this.

Golden Slipper (What an appropriate nickname hah?)

By the way my real name is Anne

[Connie51]

I like the name.....it sounds so elegant. It may help a bit with feeling as badly about ourselves as we do. We are good people, we have to remember that.

Yes, I think you will have to fess up Wed. I know how you feel. I just did it last week. I think with each failure we feel worse about ourselves.

By the way, my real name is Colleen. An Irish women who took fioricet instead of a nip or two! I mistakenly typed in my real name a couple posts ago. My nickname was Connie when I was a little girl.

Gee Anne, if you are stupid, I am sitting right along side of you. Then again I am feeling quite stupid myself these days. How about real stupid. We shall be stupid together!!! Or how about this, we are going to stop being stupid.

I have no problem sending my email address if you would be interested. It is kind of hard expressing feelings out in the open. The two of us have been consumed with this all day today. We are both frightened I am sure.

You too "Not 2 far"

Take Care of yourself, we will win this.
Colleen

P.S.Your husband will understand your slip-up. I am married to Dudley-Do-Right and I was shocked how well he took it. It is soooo hard though.

We can share what we learn.

[The Golden Slipper]

My email address is:

***@**** if either one of you would like to send me an email please feel free to do so.

I check this e-mail in the early morning and evening so you may not hear back from me right away.  I would like to give you my work e-mail but am a little nervous about doing that right now.

If you feel comfortable giving me yours I would love to correspond.

Take Care and please keep posting here!!

[never to far from fiorinal]

This drug consumes most of my time every day! I lost a government job because of it.
I don't personally know anyone who choses fioricet as
a drug of choice.
There has never been anyone to talk to.

[dru123]

What do fioracet pills look like? Are they small oval shaped, blue with white specks on them? I believe my mother uses these for her migraines, Just curious. Thanks!!!!!!

[Connie51]

Good Morning
I wrote last night but woke up this morning to find that it was returned.I have to go into work today around 9:30 and won't be home till evening. I will check in a little while if you get this message to see what went wrong. I will not have access to a computer till this evening. Hope you are doing well and will talk with you soon.

To last post....No, fioricet is a blue tablet with the shadow of three faces on it or a white tablet (generic) that is a tablet or a caplet shape. It is something I wish I had never seen!

[The Golden Slipper]

Hi Connie,

Sorry that your message didn't go through. I will check when I go home tonight.

I hope you have a good day (as good as can be expected).

[tiffy_g]

Hello, I've just been reading through your questions and comments about your fioricet addictions. I really sympathize with all of you and pray that you may find the inner strength to overcome it.

The reason I am writing to you is my family is going through something horrifying with my mother. She is 50 years and has been suffering with migraines for nearly half of her life. I'm not quite sure when she actually started taking fioricet with codien but it has been atleast 10 years if not longer. It was never a problem until about 3 years ago. She had a 2 seizures at work and hurt herself pretty bad. We never really new what caused the seizure even to this day, we all assumed it was from the migraine she was having. She started acting funny after she recovered. She would have days of just lying in bed, slurred speech, anxiety, not eating and vomiting when she did, blurred vision, scattered thoughts- talking and not making any sense at all. Mind you, these are all sypmtons of severe migraines. My father finally started to suspect something when these episodes were happening more frequently. He soon began to research what medicnes she was taking. He discovered that the fioricet w/ codien was habit-forming and also that the combination of Imitrex & Fioricet can cause seizures if taking in large quantities. He confronted her doctor - that she could have an addiction, and he just ignored what my father had said. It continued to get worse and my mother was having these episodes almost every other week, then every week. My father then did some more research and confronted the doctor again this time not as politely. He gave the doctor copies of all the research he had come across and the doctor said he would look into it. The doctor confronted my mother and ended up dismissing her as his patient and refused to treat her anymore- offering no help. So she moves on to a new doctor, same thing all over again. It turns out that we had uncovered a whole other side to our mother. She would ( and still does)get prescriptions from doctors,from walk in clinics, shots from the emergency room- when no pills were available, and she will spread the prescriptions out to pharmacies all over town. If anyone suspects she is taking to much - she just moves on to the next store. She has been doing this secretly for atleast 4 years- that we know of.
My mother has been heavily dosed on this medication for weeks now, every single day. It is really starting to hurt the entire family at this point. We have just about run out of options on how we can help her. She will not admit she has a problem and refuses to even talk about it. She has completely shut our dad out her life when it comes to her medicine. She continues to try and blame him for her continuous headaches-migraines.
(Note: withdrawl symptoms from fioricet-rebound headaches)
What I wanted to know- what are some of the physical and mental side effects you experienced? Please reply, Tiffany

[tiffy_g]

One thing I forgot to mention, my mother is also experiencing menopause at this time also. I think this is playing a major role in what she is going through right now. I'm really afraid for her, she seems so mentally unstable at this time. We are going to see if we can get her into a detox center- the only problem is- she needs to consent, which she won't do because she is in denial. Were researching right now to see if we can get her admitted anyway. I'm planning to speak with her new doctor in the morning to try and talk to them just to let them know she does have an addiction. Open to all suggestions...

Sincerely - Tiffany

[Connie51]

Hi Tiffany,
I just read yor letter and my heart goes out to you and your family and especially your Mom. Taking fioricet with Codein is twice the addiction.
I too am in the middle of menopause and that is when the despair of the addiction really sets in. Your body is all screwed up to begin with and the drugs pull you down even further. Many (not all) suffer from severe depression during that time and instead of helping.. the fioicet brings you down even lower. It is unbearable. The hormonal part of menopause lasts for quite a few years (before your period ends and after it does). Your Mom knows she is an addict, she only tries to convince you and your dad that she is not. You need some sort of intervention of all the people who love her and then have it set up for her to go in to a detox for as long as possible so that she gets a lot of counseling. You are going to have to convince her that if she can not do it for herself to please do it for the rest of you. These interventions almost always work. Although it got me into treatment, I fell back and started using again. My family trusted that I was past it. They should have notified the drug stores and my doctors that this drug was not to be dispersed to me. I may have made it. It was NOT their fault and I am not blaming them.....they had faith in me which makes me feel even worse. If you can get her in through an intervention you can never throw it into her face or let her know you don't trust her, but cut off all avenues of getting more.....especially while she is in menopause. It is a tough time. She is self medicating herself.It justs makes it worse!
If you call AA or NA they will explain about interventions and perhaps someone who has been there will also show up. You will have to round up the family for this. If she is taking so much of this that she is acting psychotic you must do this to save her life. Not that her life is in your hands, what a burden that would be, but you will know that you have done all you could. She knows Tiffany beleive me. This is the only way I know to get her into treatment. It may work better than her doctor talking to her. I hope you can put it together soon. Please let me know how you are doing. We are all here for you!

God Bless
Connie51

[Connie51]

Good Morning
I know you were going in to see the doctor today and I was thinking of you. It will be hard telling him (or her) but you are doing the right thing. I think we all fall several (or many) times before we make it. I am still planning my withdrawl during my vacation (what a vacation!) the best that I know how. I still have not really gotten any information as to the safest and least painful way to do it with this drug so I am going by the little I have learned. I am going to give you my email address. It is ***@****. Please let me know how you are doing. I will be home all day today.
Thinking of you
Connie51

[tiffy_g]

Thankyou for your replies, I am going to see my mothers doctor at 1:00 today. I just hope I can get through to them, I just want them to help her- not punish her. I will let you both know this afternoon what the doctor says when I get home. Thankyou so much for your concern and advice. I will talk to you later.  Tiffany

[Connie51]

You sound like a wonderful daughter. Your Mom is so lucky to have you. This appointment with the doctor could not in no way ever punish your Mom, you are saving her!

Please let us know how you made out. Soon you will have your Mom back as you knew her!


Connie51

[Connie51]

It was so good to hear from you. Forgetting password is another lovely part about fioicet!!! Mine is written under my mouse. How sad is that?

Please write to let me know how your appointment went. I check my email several times a day.

I did not want to push reply to your letter as I did not know the name and did not want to cause any problems.

I am here,
Connie

[The Golden Slipper]

Hi Connie,

I am nervous about today's doctor's appt. but know that I have to do it.  I also sent you 2 e-mails to the address you gave me and wanted to ask you not to send any e-mails to the address I had given you before.

One reason is that the mailbox is full and all messages are being returned so I have to go through and clean them out before we can start receiving messages again.  The other reason, and I completely forgot about this, is that my husband checks that mailbox more than I do and he is home all day right now because he is out on medical leave due to a recent surgery.

I would feel horrible if he read anything concering my recent slip up.  I do plan to tell him but haven't got up the courage to do so yet.

If you reply back to my message that I sent you it will come to me at work.  I'm sure you can understand my dilemma!!

I hope you are doing ok today.  I am trying to stick with my tapering schedule but it is very difficult and I am constantly thinking about those horrible pills.

Golden Slipper

[The Golden Slipper]

I too want to wish you the best of luck at your mother's doctor. This addiction is cunning and baffling and your mother sounds like she is in some deep denial over her problem. Fiorinal with codeine is double trouble because not only is she addicted to the barbituate but also the codeine which is an opiate.

An in patient detox sounds to me like the best bet for her.

Please let us know how you make out today.

Take Care
Golden Slipper

[tiffy_g]

Well hello there,

I went and spoke with her doctor (Maria) this afternoon. It turns out they just figured out that she has an addiiction. What happened was last time my mother was here she had Maria write her out a script for fioricet w/ codien before she left. The next day my mother called the doctors office and asked a different doctor to call in the prescription because her doctor forgot to give her the script.(This was a lie)The other doctor talked with Maria and they realized then that my mother was having a problem. They confronted her and told her that she needs stop taking the fioricet, she said NO- THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT WORKS!, So Maria told her that she will not prescribe that medicine to her anymore. She also suggested that my mom see a scychiatrist. She said that she seems to be having episodes of scychosis. (I need to do some research on that word) Maria did seem generally concerned and was helpful. I told her everything that was going on at home. She also suggested that we try to get mom into detox. I told my father everything that was said and he seemed glad to know that the doctors fiqured it out, but also distressed that there really aren't to many options for us to help her. She absolutely refuses that she has a problem and won't even consider detox. I just hung up the phone with her- I was going over a, Are you an Addict Checklist, she had atleast 15 yes (6 or more checked- absolutely an addict) Every single one I went over with her she had an excuse for or denied it. It's amazing. I will fill you more in tomorrow- I'm really tired I'm going to go to sleep now. Thanks for listening > Tiffany
Sweet Dreams to all....

[Connie51]

Dear Tiffany,

I think you found out from the Doctor what you already knew. The "angle" she used to get a double script (I never even thought of that one) shows her desperation to keep the drug in her body.

Please, Please, Please, give some thought to the "intervention" that I suggested. While I was in detox, there were many people there by using this way to get a person in.

Yes she is in denial, but only to the family.....SHE Knows in her heart beleive me. She just feels that she can not survive without it.That along with not wanting you and your dad to know her horrible addiction and trying to keep her dignity.

You can call an AA or NA center to get the details of an intervention but the way it is done is....You have got to gather up everyone who cares about her. They must all come at once and the opening line of each person is ______I love you. I am afraid of your addiction and I want you to get help. Have that person tell your Mom why they love them and why they are there.

In the meantime, have a center set up as to where she will be going, and it is important that you get her there quickly. I will bet just about anything that it will work. It will break her down. It is amazing how well it works. See if she can not only stay in for the detox but for the counseling (inpatient) which is usually around 28 days. Because of her strong denial she is going to need a lot of meetings and talking to. I don't know what kind of insurance they have but at this point at least get her into detox.

That is good that you are helping to cut off her sources but she can not go without them without medical assistance because of the kind of drug she is using.You could never trust her to do a taper because she will not even admit the problem....yet.  Stopping this drug cold turkey is dangerous. It may also make her desperate.

Please think about it. It WILL work to get her in there and someday she will thank you.

Good Luck
Connie51

[Connie51]

I am only guessing, but if you have any fears about handling it this way, that she may hate you or be very, very angry because she knows you are behind it, Yes, it may happen. But I can assure you that once she is in and is getting counseling and off from the drug, she will realize that what you have done was the greatest gift of love that one could give. She will Tiffany....I promise you.
Some familys (and friends ,I have not idea of your situation) have a problem with "I love you" but you will be shocked how many people show up for this intervention and will do what ever they can to help. You are in for a big surprise beleive me.

I don't know how old you are that you are carrying this burden, but you are good and you are wise. I can see that.
Stay strong and stand tall. You can pull this off.

Please let Golden Slipper and myself know how you are doing. Perhaps Golden Slipper has some insight into this also.
Take Care of yourself
Connie

[never to far from fiorinal]

I can't imagine how I would feel without some form of "needing"
a fioricet. I ran out today and I am wondering how my day will be
tomorrow without atleast a couple. I have gone months with only access to very few but I always wish I had them I will probably dream about them tonight. I will take Ecedrin to help. It does help me and I recomend then to all of you.

I read once that fioricet is the fastest absorbed barbituite.
You feel the buzz within 10 minutes. I to feel it gives me the confidence I need to be around people.

I hope everyone has a good night. I am really glad to read this forum, it helps me to realize I don't suffer these symptons alone.

[Connie51]

No, don't touch them, you are way past the chance of seizures as far as anything I have ever read. The drug leaves your system in a few days. You made it through beautifully. You can look up information on the internet under barbituates but I think you will find there is no longer a chance of having one. I think you have to be on quite high dosages and then there is only a chance of one.
You are a winner!
You are an inspiration to the rest of us.

It is harder the second time they say so don't take any chances.Any anxiety you are feeling is only mental craving. That will pass. Please look up barbituates and check the facts though. From all I have learned......you have made it and physically you are fine now.
Keep up the good work!
Connie51
P.S. I was dismissed from inpatient detox in 5 days from a medical doctor. They would have never let me go if there was a risk. Relax and enjoy your triumph.

[The Golden Slipper]

Hi Tiffany,

Ditto to everything Connie said.  I think the intervention would be the way to go.  Your mother is in some serious denial. Although deep down inside herself she knows she has a problem.

The psychosis your Mother's doctor mentioned could be from the large amount of pills she is taking.  I don't know how many she takes per day.  (I have never taken more than 6-8 per day) but I know it is possible to take many more than that. I knew one addict who was up to 30 fioricets per day.  She needs to get the pills out of her system before a psychiatrist can really diagnose what is going on.

She also needs to be in a safe place under a doctor's care when she is withdrawn from this drug.  The opiate piece (the codeine in the drug) will make her very sick when withdrawn, but the most dangerous piece is the butalbital that is the barbituate and, at a very high dose, it can be dangerous to stop it without medical supervision.

I hope I haven't scared you Tiffany and my heart goes out to you and your family.  Addiction is a terrible disease and so hard for the family.  I know what my poor husband has gone through with me. I am so fortunate to have his support.

Please talk with your father and give some thought to the intervention.  Please keep posting and let us know how you make out.

My thoughts are with you
Golden Slipper

[HELP NOW PLEASE]

thank god i finally found some info on fioricet here at this forum.  I am 50 years old and have taken 10 to 15 of these pills everyday of my life for the past five years.  Heres my problem.  I have not taken any of these pills now for 23 days straight and I am wondering when the withdrawal effects will start.  I am feeling better than ever and am not taking any other medications but I am now feeling a great deal of anxiety by keeping on wondering when these withdrawals are going to hit me like a ton of bricks.  I dread the rebound headaches and the feeling that I have to have the drug.  Its been a great 23 days clean but worrying about the withdrawals is enough to make me want to get my prescription filled today.  Please write back anybody when you can.  Thank each of you.

[The Golden Slipper]

If it has been 23 days that is close to a month.  I would think you would have had withdrawal symptoms by now.

When you stopped taking the pills did you stop cold turkey or did you stop gradually??? I have always suffered from anxiety and chronic headaches and nausea but it starts within a few days after stopping the pills.

I'm glad you are feeling well.  Are you having any mental cravings for the pills??  I would say you have been pretty lucky.  Although I still would say to check with a doctor because there is the chance of seizures with barbituate withdrawal.

I would tend to think after 23 days though it would have happened by now.

Please keep posting
Golden Slipper

[HELP NOW PLEASE]

wow i was thinking maybe it would take months or something and then the withdrawals would hit.  no i stopped cold turkey completely.  i've had some headaches which i expected but nothing too bad and no other bad feelings.  No I really don't have the cravings at all either.  Weird.

[Connie51]

Please let us know how you discontinued the fioicet without bad withdrawls. You were very lucky! From all I know about it, like Golden Slipper said, after this amount of time you should be past the chance of withdrawls, it is out of your system. It is all mental cravings now.

I am happy for you.
Please let us know how you did it.
Connie51

[HELP NOW PLEASE]

hi connie.  well there nothing special that i did that i know of.  i just decided i was sick of depending on them to make me feel that euphoria and didn't get them refilled and just stopped.  i didnt know there was a risk of seizure though.  i dont have any cravings yet either but if there is a risk of seizure then should i go back on them and ween myself off?????  HELP?????

[tiffy_g]

GOOD NEWS!
My mother admitted Friday afternoon that she had a problem!!!!!! The first step. My father and I are going to the doctor's first thing Monday morning with her to discuss what the next steps should be. She hasn't had any fioricet since Friday, she has been really clear headed, but she is having a rebound headache right now. I really do symphasize with her. I know that the pain she feels from these migrains are real and she is so afraid it. I really wish they could have some breakthrough discovery on how to treat these things better. I don't feel she should stop cold turkey though. That is one of the things we want to discuss with the doctor. I'm not exactly sure what finally clicked in mom to make her realize she needs help, but I have a feeling it was what my dad sai to her. He told her that we could a Henderson Crisis Unit come out to the house while she is "overmedicated" and they would asses her, and if they felt necessary they would take her off to detox that day ( The Bakers Act). Then we could also ( Marchment Act) her into a Rehab facility after that to make sure she stays off the meds. She did not want to be humiliated like that. We will always have this option if she regresses back to how she has been. But I think she realized how serious we are, we are not going to let her do this to herself. I will also make sure she received couseling for the psychological affects that she will be going through. I will give you all an update tomorrow afternoon. By the way, I am 23 and my two brothers are 26 & 27. We have all been helping them through this it's not just me. Have a Good Night.
I hope the two of you will find the strength to let go of those little pills. Thankyou for everything, Tiffany

[The Golden Slipper]

I am so glad to hear that your mother has admitted to her addiction.  That is such a big step in Recovery. She is very fortunate to have a loving and caring family to support her. I know how horrible the rebound headaches can be.  I take Imitrex for my headaches. It is non-addictive and is available by injection or pill.  I have always used the injection and finds it works much faster.  It is not a bad injection it goes into the muscle and really doesn't cause much discomfort.

There are people who cannot take Imitrex for various reasons.  You may want to ask your mother's doctor about it.  There are other drugs that are available now that are also non-addictive that work very well. Imitrex is what I now use for my migraines, the fioricet stopped working for pain a long time ago.

The mental part will be the most difficult for you mom, but with the proper treatment and support there is every reason to believe she will do well.

Please keep us posted Tiffany

[Helen58]

I was so glad to discover this web site.  I didn't realize there were people out there who had the same problem that I have.  I'm 58 years old and have been taking fioinal/fioicet for about 4 years.  I started taking them for migraine/tension headaches and found they were like a magic pill.  I was so glad to finally find something that actually helped me.  But, as you know, it has its downside.  I am taking about 3 to 4 a day, everyday.  I cannot get through the day without at least 1 or 2.  I know that doesn't sound like much compared to some of you, but it's enough to know that I have a real problem.  I find that I wake up to a headache or a very tight neck and scalp every single morning.  I take at least 1 to start my day and usually have to take another one about 1 or 2 hours later.  Why is it that we "wake up" to the headaches?  Any ideas out there?  I've tried taking muscle relaxants at night (don't like those at all), or Tylenol PM to help me relax, but they don't help.  I still wake up with a headache. Thanks for any response.  It's so nice to know that I'm not alone.

[ultimate high]

I am 34 and have the same exact problem as you.  I have been taking the fiurocet for several years on and off and usually take at least 4 a day, if not 8 to 10 pills per day.  I recently quit them for 12 days and have the most severe headache in my life for a week but it stopped.  Then the headache went away and I stopped waking with the headache.  Now I'm back on the meds and now I have the headache every single morning and it's exactly as you described.  Miserable.

[Helen58]

Are you going to try to get off the med again?  I, too, have been known to take 8 on the days that I've got a killer headache.  Like today.  I was desperate to find out an answer.  My doctor just wants to add more pills to my medicine cabinet. How did you get off the fioricet before?

[ultimate high]

to be honest, i probably won't stop until i run out completely again which will be in a few days going at this rate.  In the past, I have just stopped them completely cold turkey but I hear that it's not a good idea to do that because it could cause seizures but I think that's only if you've been taking a huge amount (alot more than ten a day) but don't quote me on that.  I guess every person is different.  As for stopping cold turkey, I just suffered through it.  Didn't really have bad side effects like I read that people have when coming off of opiates.  I just had a major rebound headache and also what felt like a sinus infection.  So I stayed in the bed for several days because luckily I'm not working and could do that.  But the first two to three days, I was very irritable and anxious.  I really didn't have bad cravings but went ahead and got my prescription filled because my step children were coming for the weekend and I wanted to seem joyful and fun for them.  It's ridiculous that I need a pill for that but I swear without them I have no motivation.  With them, I'm in a good mood, very sociable and fun loving.  But I know that it's just a false sense of well being and euphoria that I'm getting from the pills.  Guess I've stopped being me.  Funny thing is that before I was addicted, everybody thought I was fun and funny and cool to hang out with.  So I don't know why I have this illusion that I'm no longer like that without these damn pills.  Guess that's why it's so phycological.  Good luck and let me know if you need to talk.  People on this board are very supportive, kind and compassionate.

[The Golden Slipper]

Hi and I want to welcome you to this forum.  There seem to be more and more people posting about this drug.  I have taken fioricet since I was 25 years old and I am now 44.

I too wake up with a dull headache every morning and pop 2 fioricets with my coffee. Anytime I have withdrawn from this drug the headache and anxiety seem to be the primary symptoms. I take up to 8 a day.  I haven't crossed the line to 10 yet, something about that double digit scares me and hopefully will continue to scare me.

I am now trying to taper down by 1 pill a day.  It is very very difficult!!  I have suffered from migraines for many years and take Imitrex for them.  The Imitrex works well for me and it is totally non-addicting.  Of course I still get my fioricet prescriptions but not for the headache pain. They stopped helping my headaches a long time ago.

I wish I had more info. for you but just wanted to welcome you and to encourage you to keep posting.

Golden Slipper

[Helen58]

Thanks for responding so quickly.  I couldn't wait to check the site this morning to see what more I could learn.  I know what you mean about needing the fioricet to make you feel like you are sociable and fun.  I, too, feel that way.  Plus, I, too, have always been a fun person to be around before I was addicted to this drug.  I think what it does is help us have the "energy" to be fun.  Otherwise, I am tired, tired, tired.  It just seems like it's too much work to do it on my own.  You know?  Well, I wish you the best and thanks for listening.

[Helen58]

Thanks for sending me the encouraging words.  I will keep posting and know I'll find help in just reading what others have gone through and will somehow find a way to beat this thing.

[ultimate high]

Just wondering if any of you have encountered what I have.  I have been reading this board for the past two weeks.  I have read every single post.  I've been posting now for the past few days.  It seems that since my addiction is to barbs and not opiates that no one really wants to correspond with me.  Almost makes me wish it was an opiate addiction that I have.  I thought at first that it was because I was new but now I see new ones come on all the time and they get replies from the old timers like bmac, chezz, sean, etc.  I've mainly only gotten replies from GWH and that's just because I was taking up for him when some people were bashing him.  I feel that addiction is addiction no matter what the drug is.  Am I wrong?  Do any of you know of another addiction board that deals with mainly barbs?  Just wondering because I feel like I need the support to try and get clean again and it brings tears to my eyes to see how supportive and caring all of the opiate junkies are to each other and I want that kind of support and encouragement too.  I just want to have someone care about my problem too I guess.  Thanks and have a good day.

[The Golden Slipper]

I can understand where you are coming from.  I have had a few people respond to me regarding the barbs but it seems like it is mainly the opiates that are discussed.  As I said in an earlier post to you I think all addictions are really the same. It's the feelings and the behaviours that we can all relate to not the drugs and/or alcohol.

I certainly don't wish to be an opiate addict and wish I had never gotten into this mess with the fioricet.  I don't know if there are any forums for barbituate addiction.  I have certainly done many searches on the subject and came up with nothing.

Part of the reason could be that our medication is prescribed only for headaches and the opiates are prescribed for a variety of different pain conditions.  That could be why there aren't that many of us around.

I will keep searching and please let us know if you find anything.

Good luck in your struggle. If you would like to email me my address is:  ***@****

Golden Slipper

[Connie51]

When I started this thread I was sure I would not hear from any one. It is growing and growing. It kind of sounds like a womans addiction. I am sure the migrains have something to do with that. Unfortunatly, it only started because of migraines and blossomed from there.
I am so glad you are all there. Golden Slipper was the first one who I could identify with and I can tell she is a great lady.  I can see there are more of us out there. This does seem to be more of an opiate forum which is not quite the same drug.
We are are all together and hopefully we will come up with answers and help one another.
My hopes are that someone who has abused them as badly as I have and some others, will suddenly appear on the forum and tell us how they won this battle. It would be really wonderful if we would hear from a Dr. of some sort who deals with addictions and KNOWS about this drug.

Here's to us all!
Connie
I am going to attempt to start a new thread asking for help from a professional or someone who has "made it".

[ultimate high]

FINALLY.  Found a website that tells you something you can buy from a health food store for barb withdrawals.  here's the link and here's the product description.

http://www.innerself.com/Health/guides/SKULLCAP.htm


SKULLCAP
Source:
Aerial parts.

Content:
Fat, glycoside, iron, volatile oil, sugar, tannins, vitamin E.

Uses:
Recommended for: barbiturate addiction, drug withdrawal, stress, anxiety, fatigue, cardiovascular disease, headache, hyperactivity, nervous disorders, rheumatism, circulation, insomnia, muscle cramps, pain, spasms, strengthening of heart muscle.

[ultimate high]

Here's a great message forum that I just found and it's a forum for headache sufferers only and talks about pain meds and addiction and everything.  here's the link.  i'm finding these websites by going to www.google.com and typing in BARBITURATE ADDICTION FORUMS.  Just be sure you spell bartiturate right.  I always spell it barbituate for some reason and that's incorrect.  Well here's the link.  Finally a bunch of others with our problem.

http://headaches.about.com/mpboards.htm

[ultimate high]

Well here's the answer to our question about the risk of seizures.  By reading this it looks like after 5 days of not taking the drug, we are in the clear for seizures.  I sure did learn alot more about the drug by reading this below and it seems that this butalbital has a very bad name and makes me feel even more worried about myself now. Read below.  It's long though.

Fioricet, Fiorinal, Fioricet with Codeine, and Fiorinal with Codeine are medications discussed quite frequently on our forums and in our chat room. These medications are both a source of relief to some and a source of problems to others. An article by Dr. Stephen Silberstein and Dr. Douglas McCrory in the December, 2001, issue of "Headache: the Journal of Head and Face Pain" provides a great deal of information, results of clinical trials, and the answers to many of our questions.1

Analgesic medications containing butalbital, aspirin, acetaminophen, and/or caffeine are used by many "headachers" for tension-type headache (TTH) and Migraine. They have been shown to be effective in placebo-controlled trials conducted with TTH patients, but have not been studied in placebo-controlled trials with Migraineurs.

The use of analgesics containing Butalbital is controversial to say the least. Analgesics with barbiturates such as Butalbital are banned in Germany, and expert advisory panels elsewhere have warned of their potential for abuse.2,3 Some experts warn that butalbital is particularly likely to lead to rebound (analgesic overuse) headache and/or dependence and question whether their benefit outweighs these problems.3 The authors comment:

"Butalbital-containing analgesics may be effective as backup medications or when other medications are ineffective or cannot be used. Because of concerns about overuse, medication-overuse headache, and withdrawal, their use should be limited and carefully monitored."1

Clinical Studies, TTH and Migraine:
Duke University researched completed clinical studies to identify and summarize evidence on the efficacy and safety of butalbital-containing combination drugs at the request of the United States Headache Consortium. This was as a supplement to the Agency for Health Care Research and Quality-sponsored technical report on the treatment of acute migraine. The US Headache Consortium is composed of seven member organizations with an interest in improving the quality of care for people with migraine disorders. The organizations include the American Academy of Neurology (AAN), the American Headache Society (AHS), the American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP), the American College of Emergency Physicians (ACEP), American College of Physicians-American Society of Internal Medicine (ACP_ASIM), the American Osteopathic Association (AOA) and the National Headache Foundation (NHF).

Their research located controlled trials of Fiorinal, Fiorinal-PA, Fioricet, Fiorinal with Codeine, and Optalidon. Optalidon contains nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory agents (aminophenazone or propyphenazone) not available in the United States. In the located studies, these butalbital-containing compounds were compared with placebo, Micrainin (meprobamate and aspirin), Tylenol #3 (acetaminophen and codeine), Stadol (butorphanol tartrate nasal spray), and aspirin.

Potential Adverse Reactions:
Butalbital is a barbiturate. Some possible effects of barbiturates are intoxication, hangover, tolerance, dependence, and toxicity. Thus, analgesics with Butalbital can caused rebound (drug-induced) headache, dependence, and tolerance. With higher doses, withdrawal symptoms can occur when the drugs are discontinued.

Butalbital intoxication is indistinguishable from alcohol intoxication. Symptoms include "sluggishness, lack of coordination, difficulty thinking, poor memory, slowness of speech and comprehension, faulty judgment, disinhibition of sexual and aggressive impulses, decreased attention, emotional lability, and an exaggeration of basic personality traits."4
Tolerance is a reduced response to a medication. It is the result of cellular adaptive changes or enhanced drug metabolism due to extended use of a medication. Tolerance may develop over days, weeks, or months.
Addiction is manifested in "behavioral and other responses, including a compulsion to take a drug on a continuous or periodic basis in order to experience its psychic effects and, sometimes, to avoid the discomfort of its absence. Tolerance may or may not be present."1
"The reinforcing properties of barbiturates account for their ability to induce dependence."1 We can develop a physical dependence to drugs such as Fiorinal and Fioricet because we can "maintain a high rate of self-administration." Butalbital is a drug of short to intermediate duration of action (half-lives of 10 to 50 hours). Minor withdrawal symptoms occur eight to 36 hours after the last dose, reach their peak at 40 hours, then decrease gradually over a period of two to 15 days. "Symptoms can be severe and include anxiety, involuntary muscle twitching, coarse tremor, weakness and dizziness, distortion of visual perception, nausea and vomiting, insomnia, weight loss, and postural hypotension. Patients may not have all minor signs and symptoms."5
"Seizures and/or delirium characterize the syndrome. Seizures occur between 24 and 115 hours after cessation of the drug, and are often multiple. Over half of patients with seizures develop delirium tremens, which lasts from 1 to several days; this is characterized by disorientation to time and place (but not person) and by predominantly visual hallucinations."6
"Deaths have been associated with barbiturate withdrawal."7
The severity of withdrawal symptoms experienced is directly related to the amounts of medication taken and the duration over which it was taken.
In some cases of barbiturate withdrawal, medical treatment with other medications may be indicated and helpful.
Headache/Migraine Treatment with Butalbital/Analgesic Drugs:
It's probably not news to any of us that one of the main concerns with these medications is rebound or "analgesic overuse" headaches. What constitutes "overuse" is still somewhat controversial and often debated. Silberstein and McCrory say:

"...'excessive' use typically is characterized by as few as three daily doses of a given acute agent taken more than 2 or 3 days a week. Medication overuse by patients prone to headache is believed to incite or, at least, reinforce chronic daily headache, with growing dependence on, and habituation to, symptomatic medication and refractoriness to preventative medications ... If the offending acute medication is stopped, this eventually may result in headache improvement (after a period of increased headache during the analgesic washout period)."1

Summary:
As noted earlier, Silberstein and McCrory comment that these drugs can be effective backup medications for times when other medications don't work or can't be used. They recommend that they be used on a limited basis and carefully monitored. Their recommendation for an individual headache or Migraine attack is that the patient take one or two tablets or capsules initially, and no more than six per attack. They also advise limiting use to no more than two or three days a week. They also note that these medications should not be prescribed for patients who have overused or abused medications in the past.

If you are taking any of the medications discussed here or other medications from which you may be experiencing rebound, talk to your doctor for assistance in breaking the rebound cycle. Your doctor can work with you, not only to break the cycle, but to manage your headaches or Migraine attacks with different classes of drugs to avoid future rebound

[BAILEYHY]

I was browsing through this site tonight and am comforted to see that others really are facing the same nightmare I am.  I saw a headache specialist today, after waiting 2 years to see him.  I came home and have been crying since, which obviously make for quite a headache!  He wants me to stop Fioricet, I currently take 2-4 a day.  He also wants me to stop Amerge and Maxalt, then change a few meds, try Elavil to sleep, Topamax (had success with this before but PCP changed it).  I'm scared to death of what kind of things will happen during this tapering and withdrawl.  He offered to admit me for this, but feels I can do it alone and will feel and do much better after I've gotten it out of my system.  I've just had 3 days of the worst headache ever and can't even imaging pain and nausea worse than this.  Has anyone had a similar experience?  What can I expect?  I do have the meds to fall back on, but that will prolong this mess.  I feelvery angry that my PCP got me into this situation, just goes to show, they don't knwo neurology enough.  Anything you could offer would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.

[ultimate high]

well you may be in luck.  you take a very low dosage of the barb.  i take anywhere from 5 to 8 a day.  I've quit cold turkey many times while waiting for a refill and the only withdrawals i suffered were rebound headache, irritability, and anxiety but not extreme.  with your low dose, you may have no withdrawals except for the headache.  you're lucky.  i do have a neurologist and let me tell you what helped my migraines.  i was getting 3 to 4 severe migraines a week and my job was suffering. tried immitrex, maxalt, midrin, shots and all the above and nothing touched the headache.  the neurologist put me on elavil as a preventative for the migraines and it worked.  it's also good to help you sleep too.  i was on 75 mg. every night.  i also gained from 105 to 130 but i needed the extra weight and it was well worth the relief from having headaches.  However i went off the elavil because of the bad sexual side effects.  I'm a newlywed and it just wasn't working.  I don't have many headaches now but I do take the fiurocet for the high so I am only abusing it now. but if the headaches were to come back with a vengeance then i won't hesitate to start on the elavil again.  good luck.  read thru some of the posts here and up above and you'll find some more info on the drug and also some good websites that i posted about.  good luck.  I wish I only took two pills a day.

[The Golden Slipper]

Virginia Gurl - Thanks for posting all that info. It is a wealth of helpful information. I think I was also spelling the word wrong when I was searching through google.

BAILEYHY - I want to welcome you to the forum.  Also to let you know you are fortunate that you haven't yet started taking the daily amounts that some of us do.  I take 6-8 pills per day and believe me if you keep on taking them you will work up to that amount.  I also have suffered headaches, nausea and extreme anxiety when I have withdrawn cold turkey and that is at 6-8 pills per day.  You shouldn't have too much trouble getting off them.  I do feel for you with the headaches.  I have suffered from migraines for many years and fortunately Imitrex injections work very well for me.  Alot of people have no success with it but I have been lucky.  It also is totally non-addicting.

Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing.

[FiorinalJR]

A long story, but please - it's worth reading!  I am no doctor, but I'll bet I know more about Fiorinal/Fioricet than 99% of all the docs in the USA.......

I too am so glad I found this site.  For anybody who doesn't know (there was a question earlier) - Fiorinal, Fioricet and Esgic are all brand names for the same junk.  The barbiturate in them all is called "Butalbital".  Fioricet and Esgic also have acetominephen (Tylenol) and caffeine; Fiorinal has the same, except aspirin instead of tylenol.  Fiorinal/Fioricet #3 also have 30 mg of Codeine.  There are many generics, and they are usually called something like "Butalbital, APAP, Caffiene" or something similar.

I too wish I had never taken my first one.  It was about 24 years ago, and I had had a Milogram - that's a spinal tap to see if you have a disc problem in your back or neck.  Well, I already had a migraine problem from the time I was 13, but aspirin usually took care of that.  Now, the day after this procedure I had a spinal headache - the absolute worst of my life.  I wanted to drill a hole in my head!

I called my doctor (an orthopedic surgeon) about the headache, and he prescribed 30 Fiorinal #3's for me.  I took two, and about 20 minutes later - relief!  The warmth crept up the back of my neck, over the top of my head and all around.  The headache was still there somewhere in the background, but it didn't hurt anymore and I didn't care anyway.

After a week, the pills were gone, but I was getting headaches like never before (I believe that my body "learned" how to have a new kind of headache).  The doctor gave me 30 more with a refill.  Long story short, within months, he was giving me prescriptions for 100 pills with 3 refills.  Anytime I wanted more, he gave them to me.  I was hooked - for sure.

I was taking 6 or more a day, every day.  The funny thing is, he never told me they were addictive or that you develop a tolerance to them and constantly need more.  Nor did he tell me about the rebound headache effect.

I started also getting them from another doctor, secretely.  Then after about 6 years, the first doctor one day said "no more".  Turns out one of his associates had gotten into trouble with the DEA or someone for over-prescribing pain meds, so they all were cutting back.  I told him that I couldn't just stop (I had tried).  He told me to just stop.  A amazing how little these doctors know!

I went to another doctor, gave him a story, and he prescribed some.  Then another two doctors.  None knew about the other.  I was up to 9 pills a day, then crossed that magic line - 10 a day and more.  I was running out of doctors and drug stores.  Finally one day, about 13 years ago, I got hold of a blank prescription (the doc accidentally gave it to me with a written scrip).  I made copies of it, got up the nerve to write my own prescriptions, and it was real easy.

That continued (my own fake scrips plus more from two or thee docs at a time).  One day about 10 years ago, it caught up with me.  I got arrested filling one of my "home made prescriptions" - it was just a routine pharmacy check with the doctor, who said he never had a patient by that name (I was using a fake name).  When I went to pick up the meds, the police were waiting (hiding).  I was handcuffed right there in the store, dragged out, brought to the station, strip searched! and put in a cell for a while.  The next day, I went to court for arraignment, went home, threw away all the pills I had (hundreds)-flushed them down the toilet, and checked myself into in-patient rehab for 28 days.

I went thru hell!  They put me on phenobarbital, a cousin to butalbital, and weened me down everyday.  But, it wasn't a close enough cousin, or I wasn't given enough.  I had terrible muscle cramps all over my body, god awful headaches, couldn't sleep except occasionally when I would have horrible nightmares and hallucinations, and all that.  I went to counseling and NA/AA meetings all day.  I really tried.

But, nobody-not the patients or the staff could help.  The other patients were mostly kids, hooked on "party drug" lifestyles.  While I am an addict and no better than them, my problem was very different.  They would take whatever they could get their hands on, take it all at once pretty much, get high and then it was over.  They would check into another rehab clinic when they ran out of drugs and money then check out and do it all again.

I was not taking this stuff to get high.  I was taking it for headaches (most of which were caused by the Fiorinal, but I didn't know it then).  I was a "functioning addict".  I had a wife, two kids, a great job, lots of success, and no one suspected that I had a problem.  I felt like an outsider in rehab, and medically they were not addressing the physical addiction.

After Day 28, they released me (insurance was all done paying).  I had been on medication until that afternoon.  They set me "free" with instructions to take Tylenol and go to NA/AA meetings and counseling (which I did) - but it didn't help.  I still had horrible headaches and withdrawal.  I found out later that if you take a lot of this stuff long term, it stays in every cell in your body for 6 to 8 weeks or more.  So when they released me, I was still physically addicted.

I still tried to stay free of this stuff.  I went to court, got 3 years in the House of Correction, but the judge suspended it for probation if I behaved.

I went to counseling twice a week for a year.  But, after about two months, I couldn't stand the headaches.  I went to my primary care doc - who knew about my addiction, he tried other stuff, but finally said that he thought I would be okay taking just "a little" bit of regular Fioricet.  Well, that got me hooked almost instantly.  I wasn't really hooked on the codeine in Fiorinal #3 - it was the Butalbital in the Fioricet!

So, I increased my Fioricet use, found more doctors, and eventually "had" to start writing my own again.  I got away with that for about 3 years.  Then, the pharmacy called one of my doctors just to check on the number of refills he had put on a scrip (he really did), and he said "no, I didn't put any refills".  He is older and forgetful.  Turns out, he called the police to cover his butt, they investigated, told the other doctors and then found the prescriptions I had been writing.  "CRASH".

I got arrested again, and now have to go to court - again.  This time, I will be lucky to stay out of jail.

After the doctors found out about each other, but before I was arrested, I knew I was in trouble.  I tried to stretch the few hundred pills I still had.  I cut down from the 18 a day I was taking (yes, 18 or more).  I started taking one at a time instead of two.  I had withdrawal and bad headaches.  But I was running out fast, and knew it would be nearly impossible to get more.

I went on the Web and looked for doctors in my area (Boston) looking for doctors that specialized in addiction, pain management, etc.  I called more than THIRTY doctors, and at first they were okay to make me an appointment.  But when I told them what I was addicted to and how much, etc. (not even the legal problem) every one of them said "Oh, I can't help you with that, try rehab".

Well, I tried rehab, and it did not help - it made my addiction worse.  I was stuck.  These idiot MD's seem to know how to get you hooked, but not how to undo the damage.  They are too afraid of losing their licenses to try and help.

Luckily, I had arranged to see a new primary care doc at a real good Boston hospital.  My appointment happenned to coincide with the very day that I was going to run out of Fioricet.  I went in and saw my new doctor and told him all about my addiction (I hadn't planned to until the trouble).  He was GREAT!  He understood, said he would work with me to wean me off this stuff, and to get me help with the headaches and he gave me a prescription for some F/cets.

Two days later he had me see a Neurologist.  She specializes in, guess what, addiction to pain medicine, and headaches.  She understood my problem and agreed to work with me.  SHe gave me an anti-epileptic drug (Neurontin) to help with the headaches, and with the withdrawal-but no bad side effects.  Plus, she gave me Amerge - one of the newer migraine meds, plus she took over the Fioricet prescriptions.  She said she wanted to wean me off very slowly - by one pill every two weeks, if I could tolerate it.

Wow!  Finally a doctor who would help not only with the withdrawal, but with the root problem as well.  It's been a few weeks, but am down to less than half of what I was taking two months ago.  Now I have to taper slowly.  I do have headaches, but they are withdrawal/rebound headaches, and I can live with them.  The migraines are under control.  I can sleep at night and I can eat without getting sick.  And, I can even work and lead a fairly normal life.  Now I have to deal with my legal problem, but I'll get thru it - and this doc has even offered to write a letter to the judge about how this can easily happen to innocent patients (thru doctor negligence usually), and also HOW OFTEN it happens.  It happens a lot!

So, the moral of the story?  DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE TAKE FIORINAL, FIORICET, ESGIC or anything else with a barbiturate in it.  You can get hooked in one day, really.  I swear that there is a "lock" in my brain, and Fiorinal has a "key" that just happenned to fit it perfectly.  Nothing else does, nothing else ever will.  I just pray that now I can finally get off this stuff for good.  I wish I had never seen even one of them.

By the way, for the curious....I am male, mid-forties now, still married and have grown children.  I still have a good, very responsible job, am active in the community etc. and no one who knows me would ever believe what I have just written.  I have been real good about keeping it secret.  And that's the other thing about this drug.  It turns you into a sneak, a liar, a thief, a criminal, you waste time doctor shopping, and money paying for this stuff.  And, except for once in a blue moon, you walk around with a terrible headache, every day, from the time you wake up until the time you go to sleep (if you're lucky enough to sleep).

Please, if you are taking a lot of this stuff, get help - NOW!  If you look hard enough you can find a good doctor who will help you - one where you don't have to worry about getting cut off, and one  who will help you with your headaches, and will help you get off this junk at your own pace, without having to go through in-patient rehab.

If you only take "a little" bit of this stuff, watch out!  You will eventually need more and more, and you will find yourself lying to yourself, and saying "I'll cut down next month" and all that.  You won't, until you are stopped by somebody.

Come clean, and get help.  It's painful, but a good doc wil make it as comfortable as possible for you and you will still be able to go about your life.

Good luck to all, and thanks for letting me share my story.  I'll keep you up to date.  If anyone has any words of wisdom for me, please do pass them along.

Thanks, and good luck to all!

[ultimate high]

Wow thanx for that post.  it was very insightful.  I've been taking the esgic plus now for serveral years on and off.  I never make it past 8 or so pills a day and most days it's usually about 5 or 6 which is still too many.  I have quit for weeks at a time and only suffered rebound headache, irritability, and anxiety.  Maybe it takes two months like you were saying before the withdrawals actually hit? Do you think so?  Well today I cut all of them in half and after this prescription, I do have one refill but I'm just not gonna get it filled.  No matter how much I think I need this drug to function and be happy and sociable and no matter how much I think that it hasn't caused any problems in my life, I'm still stopping it.  I have read enough over the past several days about it and it is really scary.  I've always gotten my prescriptions legitimately but get this.  It's my allergy doctor that prescribes it.  My neurologist did a couple of times but I told him how I get addicted to it and he was very limited with what he would prescribe.  But thank you and you have made me see the light.  I will not get my prescription filled and will wean with the halves of pills that I have left.  Did you ever suffer any seizures when you stopped?  I hear that is a big risk and that is partly what keeps me from stopping but I did read that the chance of seizures is gone after five days of stopping the drug.  I'm so glad that there are people coming out and talking about this drug.  Before I found this message board I thought I would never get any info on the drug and thank you because you have been a wealth of info.  Good luck with your addiction and with your headaches.  By the way, I'm only 34 so it's not just an old timers drug like some people think.

[ultimate high]

Thought some of you may find this helpful.  Here are a few more things that I’ve found for withdrawal that aren’t mentioned in the Thomas Recipe but they are all herbal.  Don’t know if they work or not and don’t know the cost of them except for the price of what is called the DETOX FORMULA and that price says $40 for 4oz. Dry Formula.  Anyway just thought I’d share these with you guys since I read so many posts where the withdrawals are so bad or cause relapse.  Take care.


Detox Formula
Red Clover blossoms, Mojave Chaparral herb and resin, Poke root, Oregon Grape root, Burdock root and seed, Yellow Dock root, Golden seal root, Bloodroot, Garlic Juice, Lobelia seeds & Cayenne.
4 oz Dry Formula $40.00


SKULLCAP
Source:  Aerial parts.
Content: Fat, glycoside, iron, volatile oil, sugar, tannins, vitamin E.
Uses: Recommended for:  barbiturate addiction, drug withdrawal, stress, anxiety, fatigue, cardiovascular disease, headache, hyperactivity, nervous disorders, rheumatism, circulation, insomnia, muscle cramps, pain, spasms, strengthening of heart muscle.


And here’s several more things to try:
Treatments thought to improve a person's ability to stop substance use include acupuncture and hypnotherapy. Ridding the body of toxins is believed to be aided by hydrotherapy (bathing regularly in water containing baking soda, sea salt or Epsom salts). Hydrotherapy can include a constitutional effect where the body's vital force is stimulated and all organ systems are revitalized. Elimination of toxins is aided as well as by such herbs as milk thistle (Silybum marianum), burdock (Arctium lappa, a blood cleanser), and licorice (Glycyrrhiza glabra). Anxiety brought on by substance withdrawal is thought to be lessened by using other herbs, which include valerian (Valeriana officinalis), vervain (Verbena officinalis), skullcap (Scutellaria baicalensis) and kava (Piper methysticum).

[ultimate high]

Hey there.  By what I've read up on about this herb called Skullcap, it is very good for barb withdrawal because it supposedly prevents seizures.  I read they it is even given to people with epilepsy that are allergic to medication and it helps to keep them from having seizures.  It sounds pretty expensive and I usually don't have much luck with herbs.  I've tried valerian root and kava kava and could never notice a difference but if I can save enough money and stop buying esgic plus, I might try the skullcap.  It is sold in a bottle as liquied with a dropper and I think it's like $50 for a 5 oz bottle or something like that.  well anyway i wanted to post this to you because i know you have the concern of seizures like i do.  goodnight.

[The Golden Slipper]

Fiorinal JR - Thanks for sharing your story.  I have been taking fiorinal,fioricet, esgic plus all of them off and on for a period of over 20 years.  I have had a few years of clean time here and there but always go back to using these drugs.

For me it started out innocently as a medication for migraines.  Somewhere along the line I began taking them to feel good. Not to mention that I also was in chronic headpain which also neccessitated my daily use.  I now use Imitrex for my headaches which are still frequent.  The fioricet I use just to feel good. (Although that is not what my 5 or 6 doctors think)

I ran out of fioricet yesterday and am feeling rather anxious today.  I do have 0.5 milligrams of ativan that I can take twice a day that helps with the anxiety.  The headaches haven't appeared yet but I'm sure they will.

I am tempted, of course, to try to get another fioricet prescription.  There is a part of me that really doesn't want to do that. This drug is very dangerous and has been my constant companion for many years.

You mentioned you live near Boston. I live just South of Boston.  I have also tried to find doctor's that understand.  I'm glad you were successful and would love to know where you found this doctor.

Please continue to post and let us know how things are going.

Virginia Gurl - Thanks for all the info on the herbs.  I may give that one a try.  I have had mild success with herbal remedies in the past.  I hope you are doing ok I know you mentioned you were going to try to taper down the pills.

Please let me know how things are going.


Golden Slipper

[FiorinalJR]

YOU CAN GET HELP!  Golden Slipper, you said you live south of Boston.  Well, I found a great doctor at Lahey Clinic/Hospital in Burlington, MA (also in Peabody, MA) The doctor I got is in Neurology. Her name is Dr. Carol Moheban (please don't say that "JR" mentioned her). Get this, her specialties are Headaches and medication addiction/abuse.  She knows Fiorinal/Fioricet/Esgic all too well! I told her my story, pretty much as I wrote and posted here in September.  I was afraid she would show me the door.

Instead, she said that if I would PROMISE to follow her plan and work with her, and not see any other doctors (she will be checking), that she would help me to get off the Fioricet without having to check in to detox or anything, and she said she would help me with my headaches.

She is prescribing Fioricet for me (I am currently down to 9 a day - it used to be 20!)  She is reducing that by one every two weeks - she said not to go too fast.  She also put me on Neurontin - this is an anti-seizure epileptic drug, but they just found out that it is great as a long term prophylactic for headaches.  It also calms you down - before, I was all stressed out, my body was rebelling, all my muscles were tightened up, but not any more.  This stuff really works, and there are no bad side effects!  Also, she gave me Amerge, which is a triptan, kind of like Immitrex, but newer and it works better - this  is for when I do get a headache.

It's been about three weeks since I saw her, and I'm feeling real good.  When I DO take the Fioricet, it's only to keep the withdrawal stuff at bay, but after more than 20 years of abusing Fioricet et al, I am comfortable, I feel great, and am convinced that I can get off this stuff and stay off it - and be headache free.

The best thing about this doctor is that when I first saw her, she told me not to worry about suddenly getting "cut off" or anything.  And she assured me that as long as I followed her rules, she would never leave me hanging.  THAT made me feel a whole lot better!

So, if you are in or near Boston, call Lahey Clinic and try to get an appointment with her.  You may have to wait a month or so, but it will be worth it.

Good luck to everyone - with the right doctor and a "can do attitude", we can all get off this stuf forever and be headache free.

JR

[The Golden Slipper]

Thanks so much for posting the info on this doctor.  I have been trying to find someone to no avail for quite sometime. I really want to come clean.  It has been 20 years off and on and I am really tired of this stupid pill running my life.  I do suffer from migraines and am wondering if the fiorinal has alot to do with the frequency of them.

I do take Imitrex injections that seem to work well for the headaches.  I am so afraid of the w/d from this stuff.  I average about 6-8 per day.  Right now I have 4 left and have already taken 4 today and it is only 12:30 right now.  I am going to try to hold out and not take anymore today.  (Famous last words!!)  I have no idea where I will get my next prescription from. This is so scary!!!  To top it off I have a constant headache.

I do appreciate your responding to me and I will follow-up with this doctor.  I also will not mention your name as you stated in your post.

Glad to hear you are feeling better and best of luck in your recovery.

Please keep us updated

Golden Slipper

[FiorinalJR]

I have finally realized that most of my headaches (90% and more) are from the Firicet/Fiorinal.  They are rebound headaches, and they are the ones that make you keep taking the drug.  You feel awful, so you find a way to get more, you take some, and you feel better - for a while.  Then it comes back even worse.

I know that feeling of wondering where my next prescription was going to come from - it's gone now.

If you get a good doc, they will help you with the medical fight.  YOU still have to work at it, but for me, after 20+ years, I finally feel like I can do it, fairly comfortably.

Yes, every time I have to cut down by one more, it's scary.  And not having my pocket full of pills is scary.  But, I really understand now that Fioricet actually CAUSES the headaches!  When I take it now, usually not for headaches, but to  help with withdrawing, I get a headache 30 minutes later.  I recognize that headache!  It's the Fioricet.

So, getting a good doc is key.  Good luck, Golden Slipper.  Give it a try - it works.  ANd, good luck to all.    jr

[Connie51]

Hi
I am back from my vacation and now I only have 7 days worth left at going down 1 pill a day. I took my full 10 every day while away. I am scared, I do not know if I can work while doing this. I feel sick already....nerves I imagine.

Golden Slipper how are you? Also a big hello to all the informative new people to the post. I have learned much!

This is not going to be a good week, I have a feeling that the fear is worse than the withdrawl itself. I went cold turkey in the rehab with valium which I had been given. I will not start it till I am down to 4 pills a day at a very low dose. Mainly to keep seizures at bay. When they are gone there will be no more given so I am not worried about that becoming another addiction.

It is odd, the only pills I have ever taken are fioricet and have never had the urge to try or take another med. I no longer have constant migraines but was unable to stop the fioicet.

Do you others have a problem with nausea? I think that makes me want to stop it more than anything else although there are many reasons (of course)because I can not stand the constant sick stomach any more.

Please tell me about the blue skies that I have to look forward to. I have not seen them in a long time.
I wish I lived closer to Boston, that doctor sounds wonderful, she sounds like someone who makes you feel safe and secure. Is this not what we used the drug for (other or than migrains, which most of us no longer get)) to bring our stress down? Yes in the begining there was a feeling of calmness and happiness but was it not just from feeling calmer due to the drug? Self medicating?

Please let me know how everyone is doing.
It is all right before me, just about to begin, oh what fear. That terrible feeling of not being able to "keep up" while going through it. I wish we could all meet somewhere for a week and do it together! It would work you know.
God Bless us all
Connie

[The Golden Slipper]

Connie - All I can say is ditto to everything you said in your post.  I am close to the same point you are at.  I did manage to get my marked up prescription filled after traveling 2 towns over to an old fashioned medical supply/pharmacy that I happened to come across.  Imagine spending a beautiful Saturday driving around shaking trying to find a pharmacy.  It is so insane.  I was so nervous I kept watching the expression on the pharmacist's face as she put my info into the computer so afraid that some message would pop up telling her not to fill it.

I was very very lucky!! Of course I didn't use my insurance and ended up spending $25.00 for 40 fiorinal. I couldn't wait to get out to the car to pop 2 of them in my mouth and sure enough within 20 minutes I was feeling better. I am using this prescription to taper because at this point I am limited as to what pharmacies I can go to.  I've been everywhere within the last 6 months!!!!!

I, like you am very fearful of this week.  I think, Connie, alot of it is mental.  I also am afraid of the headaches that I suffer through when withdrawing and like FiorinalJR said I do believe they are caused by the fioricet.

Please keep in touch with me Connie.  All we really can do is our best to support each other.

Fiorinal JR - Thanks for the update and I am glad to hear you are feeling better.  I know the headaches you are referring to I have one right now.  I also believe the fioricet/fiorinal causes them.

Please keep us posted on your recovery and thanks for the encouraging words.

[SmokethisVette]

Hey...
I was folllowing your story...I was trying to figure out something abou twhy you get those headaches and well...DUH...It then hit me!!  Your pills have 40 mg's of caffeine in each tab...I found this ite for ya..
http://rxlist.com/cgi/generic/esgic.htm
Then I realized that you need to keep up the caffeine levels in your system after you stop the fioricet!! The numero uno symptom/sign of caffeine withdrawl is HEADACHES!! So in my eyes...I think you should address this and taper your self slowly OFF the caffiene and I do think this will help...if not WORK for ya!! Oh one more little thing...I pulled up this info on how much caffiene is in what...so here you go and best of luck to ya...
Laters...Christine
SUBSTANCE MILLIGRAMS

No Doz 1 tablet 200

Excedrin 1 tablet 130

Coffee, Drip 8 ounces 115-175*

Coffee, Brewed 8 ounces 80-135*

Coffee, Instant 8 ounces 65-100*

Jolt Cola 12 ounces 71

Tea, Iced 12 ounces 45-70*

Tea, Brewed 8 ounces 30-60*

Expresso 1 ounce 30-50*

Green Tea 8 ounces 14*

Hot Cocoa 8 ounces 6-14*

Coffee, Decaf 5 ounces 2-5*
PS: Sorry this is late and all...

[The Golden Slipper]

Thanks so much for the info.  You are absolutely correct the pills are loaded with caffeine along with that little barbituate that gives me the happy glow.

I also drink alot of coffee so I'm sure when I cut out the fioricet dose of caffeine along with being a caffeine addict to begin with it contributes to my headaches.

As I sit here writing this my head is pounding because I am once again trying to do a taper of these horrible pills.  I need to get them out of my life once and for all.

Thanks for your post and I will take the info. into consideration.

Golden Slipper

[SmokethisVette]

Hey there....I honestly thought you wouldn't get my message...being that is in the mist of everything else going on...but all in all...thanks for the quick response!! I do hope that you get better..my prayers are out for you!! I was reading your post about going that day to try and get your script filled and was so very curious to see the outcome!! Don't ask why...I am just crazy like that...don't wanna scare you...little me couldn't hurt a fly!! Well we are all in this together and I hope this HELL will end soon for you and for me and for EVERYONE here going through this!! Well thanks again...
Laters
Christine

[Connie51]

Good morning,
Nice to see people on here. I am afraid Smokethis is correct about the constant headaches during tapering with fioricet. I did not get one headache during detox but I had stopped drinking coffee several years ago. The headaches from quitting coffee alone are unreal! There was a trial done last year about withdrawl from fioicet (it is gone off the net now) and it was found that the caffein was the major cause of W/D headache.

Perhaps Golden Slipper, you could start with decafinated coffee and work down from there. What I did when quitting (coffee) was mix half reg with half decaf.Oh how I miss it! I was taking in to much caffein with the pills and the coffee and did not feel right, but did I give up the pills.....NO.....I gave up the coffee. How dumb is that?

I do not expect a reply or an explaination but the oddest thing happened. I just was taliking to Golden Slipper this morning about Irish roots. The very odd thing is that when I saw SmokethisVette, I was kind of blown away. Vette is the Gaelic spelling of my maiden name and it is a very rare name in Ireland/Scotland etc.
I am not looking to invade your privacy. It just may be a slang word you are using that has a meaning to you. It was just SO odd, and quite a shock to see it.

Take Care to us all
Connie

[SmokethisVette]

Hey there girl...
What's up? You are funny...I just wanted to let you know what my screen name means to me...it is so not what you probably think...so here it goes...
Since I was 8...I have always wanted a Corvette..ok so when I was initially thinking of a screen name for my e-mail..I came up with this one...It just simply means that my corvette (the one I soon hope to be buying) will "smoke" all other cars away...you know cream them off the line and leave nothin' but smoke trailing behind me..as well as the other car! It is kinda corny but what the hell right? I just love vette's and when I graduate from nursing school I will be buying one...it will be a treat to myself for all the hard work and for doing ALL of it ALL BY MYSELF!! That's right...so a little insight on what that name means to me...it is such a coincidence that you have anything to do with my screen name...silly silly I tell ya...
Laters
Christine

[The Golden Slipper]

That is funny I actually had heard of the same Gaelic name that Connie mentioned.  I even knew someone once who had that last name.

Good luck with your schooling and before you know it you will be cruising in that new Corvette!!!

[FiorinalJR]

Update - I am now down to 8 Fioricet per day (from 20 six weeks ago).  I am still getting headaches, but not as bad as they were.  The worst headaches I get are after I take a Fioricet!  My doc wants me to not go below 8 a day for another week.  She is tapering me down by 1 every two weeks.

The key is to find a good doc who will help you.  Mine has me on Neurontin 4 times a day.  It's an anti-epilectic drug, but they just recently found that it helps prevent headaches.  It also calms you down - without making you too tired - and helps minimize the withdrawal effects - really!  No side effects.  Also, she has me on Amerge (one of the newer Triptan drugs) for when I do get migraines.

She told me NOT to take aspirin, Tylenol or Ibuprophen - becuase all of these cause rebound headaches.  And, most of the headaches you get when tapering off of Fioricet are really rebound heaches.

Please, if you're trying, get medical help.  You don't need to go into detox.  Find a good Neurologist who will help you, and give you some non-narcotic, non-addictive drugs like I'm taking, to help you get off Fioricet, etc. for good.

I still get some bad headaches, but less and less.  I know I'm going to do it this time, and I finally realize just how bad Fioricet/Fiorinal/Esgic really is.

Good luck to all!  And stay in touch, please.

JR

[Connie51]

I keep trying to start a new post but no matter what time of day it says it is full.
FiorinalJr....you must be very proud! You deserve it. You are an inspiration to us all.
It is odd that we both have heard different eplainations of the rebound headaches but your info comes from a good souce so I am sure it is so. Perhaps the tylenol and the caffiene are both culprits.
I only get migraines I would say around twice a month. I can take fioicet all day long...every hour and it does not touch it. So... as far as it being a drug for migraines, once you have abused it, it becomes useless. It is then just a horrible adddiction.
I was wondering how many have the same sort of personality who are addicted to this drug and can not seem to feel that they could ever carry on without it.
Although I do not think that any one would think of me as a hyper person (I appear a quite normal person....I think) but I consistently feel that I can not keep up. My life consists of...I must....I have to... etc. My brain then tells me I could not "Keep Up" without it. It dulls your senses to the point that you just keep going no matter how tired you are! Them giving me energy passed a long time ago although they do give you a little push right after you take them.
I feel that I am going to have to step out of my life for a while to get off them. No "have too's" etc. Just stay calm and chill.
Does any one else feel that their personality may be similar and that this one of the reasons that they have found this drug so difficult to stop? Of course it being addictive being the major
source of the problem.
I have noticed on this forum that many opiate abusers... the addiction is not nearly as LONG TERM as the people who are addicted to this drug (fioricet etc.). Of course there are exceptions. Many are 20 years plus. I am into my 8th.
Help me understand everyone. We are all in this together and together we will beat it! Many heads are better than one, especially mine these days. I am falling a bit short.

Connie

[The Golden Slipper]

I also tried to post a new thread and was told it was full. I am thinking there might be other people in our situation who may be perusing this forum but not going down far enough to see our thread.

Connie - My personality is just like yours.  The pills stopped helping my migraines years ago but I continued to take them for the feeling they gave me.  Now, they make me feel good for about 1/2 hour and then I basically feel like ****.

I am still tapering but it is difficult and I have to do alot of praying!!  I do attend a 12- Step meeting on Wednesday evenings and am also going to start going on Saturday mornings.  I need to make the recovery my main priority.  I feel right now that I need to chase the recovery with the same speed that I chased the pills. (If I do that I will have to move pretty fast!!!)

Fiorinal JR - Thanks for your update!  I have made an appt. with the addiction doc it is still a few weeks away.  I am so glad to hear you are doing well.  Please continue to post and update us.

I really enjoy this forum. I think we all have alot in common, whether our addiction is to an opiate, barbituate, or alcohol we all suffer from the same disease and the same compulsion to keep self-destructing against our wills.

I hope everyone has a peaceful Sunday

Take Care
Golden Slipper

[Connie51]

You sound great today and full of optimism. I am so happy for you. I guess a better word would be "determined" which is wonderful.
I may have been given wrong information. I had heard that one is really not wanted at the N.A. meetings when you are still abusing. Is that true? DO they accept you with open arms or do they want you with a clear mind and and ready to start your recovery?
I don't even know any one who has attended meetings very well. I have not led a sheltered life.....believe me....but drugs was never a part of it. Alcohol yes, but it was always acceptable in my world.
If I had attended N.A. as soon as I got out of detox there is a good chance I would not be typing this right now but I was WAY to tired at night (N.A. always seems to be at night) and honestly a bit scared to go. I have payed dearly for my ignorance.
Yes, after about 1/2 hour of taking the fioicet one does not feel well at all (after long term use). WOW....if you think about it, how nutty is that! I think it is called addiction!
I wish all of us on this thread lived near each other but we have to be thankful we have each other on the net.
We need another post! This one is to far down! We shall keep trying, I am sure there are others who need to share.
Bless us all
Connie

[never to far from fiorinal]

I worked in a pharmacy for 20 years. With everything available to me it was fiorinal/fioricet that I enjoyed. I lost my job,
surprise! Now have them dilived to my door via fedex without
a script. I guess there is no hope for me.

[The Golden Slipper]

Please don't say there is no hope.  You are reading this forum and that is a start.  If you were happy taking your pills you would not be trying to reach out for help.

I have never done the internet thing but believe me it is tempting. It is just way too easy to get these pills.  I am at the point now where I am running our of pharmacies. I really need to stop!! It is very difficult but I am trying to taper even dropping 1 pill a day I feel like ****!  Just knowing they are close by is so tempting.

I have so much to lose if I continue this path.  I will pray for you please keep posting and letting us know how you are doing.

Golden Slipper

[FiorinalJR]

Not 2 far - how do you have them delivered to your door without a script?  Just curious!

[FiorinalJR]

Golden Slipper, yes my personality sounds like yours.  But, the problem you are having with the Fioricet - you take it, feel good for half an hour, then like ****, is all because of the Fioricet rebound.  Trust me, I found out the hard way.

I am down from 20 a day for years, now down to 8 per day.  I feel much better most of the time.  I can be feeling pretty good, headache free (almost), then I have to take a Fioricet to shake off the withdrawal stuff.  Half an hour later I HAVE a headache.  It's actually CAUSED by the Fioricet!

I would stop totally, but my doc wants me to taper slowly so I don't have a seizure or severe withdrawal problem - I have been taking this for so long, I have to go slow.

But now I DO know that this **** actually causes the headaches!

Please get a doc who will work with you and give you other non-narcotic non-barbiturate meds to help you step down and get off this stuff.  You WILL feel crappy for a week or so, but then much better.

Good luck to all - keep the faith!

[FiorinalJR]

Hi, GS.  Just wondering if you had any luck getting an appointment with that neurologist.  They are really good at Lahey Clinic.  Just look up the main nunmber for them in Burlington, MA  or in Peabody, MA.

They can and WILL help!  Good luck to all.

jr

[The Golden Slipper]

Yes, I did make an appt. at the Leahy with the same doctor you had mentioned.  I do have to wait until December 6th for the appt. which is unfortunate.  I am trying to do a taper on my own off of the fioricet.  I am now down to 4 a day but it is very difficult and I am holding on for dear life. I think about them constantly.  Yesterday, I graduated to the point where I could leave the bottle of pills at home when I went to work. I worried all day that the house would catch fire and the pills would burn up. Or that the house would be robbed and my bottle of fioricet would be stolen. Talk about insanity!!!!!!!!!

I do notice this is affecting my job because my mind is on other things (my fioricet). I do suffer from headaches and lately I seem to have them constantly.  I have been a migraine sufferer for 20 years which is what got me started on this destructive path to begin with. I am a little afraid to just stop cold turkey even though at most I only took 8 in one day I still am afraid of the withdrawals.

It is good to hear that you are doing well. Thanks for thinking of me and please let us know how you are doing.

Golden Slipper

[FiorinalJR]

Glad you made that appointment.  Please don't tell her that you heard about her from me (if you mention my posts, she will likely know who I am).

I know that feeling of being afraid.  I actually used to lock my pills up in a fuire proof safe at home, just in case!  But, no more.  My biggest fear now comes when I am almost out of what the doc is giving me to taper off with.  SHe gives me 10 days worth at a time, then I have to call on the day I will run out, and she does a refill - always.  It's scary when there are only 5 or 6 pills left!

But, I'm getting over that.  And you will too.

You might want to call, ask for the doc's direct line.  You will get her asistant.  Explain that you're really having a hard time, and see if they can squeeze you in sooner.  They might be able to, or at least put you on a wait list.

Hang in there, G.S.  You can do it, and you'll be fine!  Keep in touch.

[FiorinalJR]

GS, Connie .... how are you doing?  Hope not too badly.  One of you (can't read the post now) mentioned that your doc gave you Valium and said to stop the Fioticet now.  That doc sounds like my old PCP.

DON'T DO IT!!!!!  He/she doesn't know what they're doing.

While Valium will help some with the wihdrawal, it does not replace what your body has come to expect, and you will still have the danger of seizures (sometimes life-threatening) and you will still have withdrawal. And, you MIGHT get addicted to the damned Valium!

My advice, get a new doctor.  This one is either not capable of thinking, is sadly misinformed, or just plain doesn't know.

Good luck, and let me know how you're doing.  I'm still tapering, hanging in there!

[The Golden Slipper]

This is really beginning to scare me.  I have been told by my doctor (one of them)(the one who is giving me the taper fioricet) that where I was only taking 6-8 per day I would not have a seizure.  I don't know if I should believe him or not. He gave me Ativan for anxiety which I know is very addictive. I think it was Connie who mentioned the valium and I believe that she was given that while at an inpatient detox.

I have withdrawn in the past without having a seizure although I did suffer terrible anxiety, stomach upset, mild nausea and insomnia for about 3 weeks.

Maybe I should try to get an earlier appt. with this doctor.  I just want out of this craziness. I am at the point now where I have confessed everything to my husband and he also knows the danger of seizures.

I am ready to get off this sinking ship!!!!!!! It hit the iceberg a long time ago!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to be so dramatic but I am really afraid of these pills. I am tired of them having so much control over my every waking minute.

I'll keep you updated!!

[never to far from fiorinal]

There are several online pharmacies that will deliver fioricet with out a script. FedEx next day no questions asked. I am not
in any way suggesting this is for you or anyone else but I know it would have saved you some legal promblems. I wish I had known about it before I lost my job.

[FiorinalJR]

Thanks.  I sure wasn't looking to get anything but was curious about what you had said.  I would be concerned about Internet ordering, since there's always that chance you get ripped off and get nothing, or you get something that really isn't what you ordered.

Anyway, I'm on-track and at 8 per day, ready to go down to 7 this weekend.  Some rough days, but most are real good!

Hope you and everyone here is hangin' in.

[FiorinalJR]

GS, just wondering how you're doing.  Hopefully you are hanging in there.  Did you use the Valium, or are you sticking with the Fioricet for now?

Be well, and let us know how you are.

[The Golden Slipper]

I am still tapering with the fioricet. I saw my neurologist yesterday and he gave me a new script.  I am supposed to try to drop by 1 pill every other day.

It is very difficult.  My neurologist is good but admits he is not an addiction specialist. I also had to fess up to him about all my other doctors that I have been getting scripts from. It was a very embarrasing scene to say the least.

Did you ever have stomach problems when you were withdrawing from the fioricet?  I have been having horrible cramps off and on for the past week and don't know if it's a virus or something to do with the withdrawal.

It comes and goes but seems to relax a bit when I take the pills. Of course I am still having headaches chronically almost everyday.

I just want out of this nightmare. The sooner the better

Thanks for asking and I hope you are doing well in your struggle!!
GS

[FiorinalJR]

GS, yes - I do have stomach problems occasionally as I TAPER OFF the Fioricet.  And some (yuk) diarreah too!  The cause of it is that when you take Fio' on a regular basis, it slows down your digestive system.  That will cause some stomach problems when you cut back.  Plus if you taper too fast, you WILL get some cramps everywhere, including with your stomach.

I'm glad you were honest with your neurologist, but it sounds like he's right - he's NOT an addiction specialist.  Trying to taper down one pill every other day is way too fast.  My doc has me tapering down by one pill every 8 to 10 days and she told me not to go any faster!

As for the terrible headaches, you probably have what I do - an all day all the time dull headache that seems like it's in your whole head, not just one side.  And it's probably worse some times than others.  But, with rebound headaches, usually there's no throbbing like migraines - it's just constant pain.

The headache is a rebound headache from the butalbital in the Fioricet.  There's not much you can do about it except wait it out.  You can take Tylenol or Advil and that might help some. Also, make sure you get some caffiene to make up for what you're not getting with the lesser amounts of Fioricet. But, until we are fully off the Fioricet, that headache will be there.

That's how Fioricet gets you hooked - you take it for headaches, but then as it wears off you get a rebound headache, so you take more.  It takes on a life of its own!

We have to be patient and put up with the rebound headaches, and just look forward to the day when we are totally tapered OFF this junk!  Trust me, I know we'll feel better soon.

Hope you can get your doc to not make you taper so fast.  Good luck, GS - and please stay in touch!

We CAN do this.

[FiorinalJR]

Golden Slipper, are you still around?  Just wondering if you're okay - you've got me worried!  Post and let us know how you're doing.  Peace!

[The Golden Slipper]

Yes, I am still here.  I am still tapering and still feeling pretty much the same. I am now able to leave my little friends at home because if I bring them to work I know I will take them.

I have myself down to 4 pills per day which is half of what I was taking.  The doctor said to stay at 4 until I see him again next week.  I am having some stomach problems (as I mentioned before) I think it may be due to the withdrawal. My doctor thinks at the dose I was taking (8 pills a day) it probably isnt' but again, as I said before, he is not an addiction specialist.

I'm hanging in, How are you doing??  Are you now down to 7 pills a day??

GS

[FiorinalJR]

Glad to hear you're donw to 4.  That's GREAT!  Good job.  I go to 7 today - should be okay.  SAying "only 7" seems strange because it's still a lot.  But it sure is better than 20!

If I'm lucky and stick with it, I should be OFF by Christmas.  That would be a true Christmas miracle.

Hang in there and keep doing well, GS.  Please stay in touch.

[FiorinalJR]

GS, Connie: Are you still around? HAven't seen any recent posts here, and wondering if everyone is okay.  Please post and let us know how you're doing.

I'm on track, still tapering slowly.  Doing well, except yesterday and today I have a MOTHER of a headache, and there's not much I can do but wait it out.

SHoot me/us a post with an update, or just say "Hi".

jr

[athena]

Good morning
I always read your posts and was wondering if you could answer a question for me.A friend of mine was on butalbutal,4 a day for about 15 yrs.About 3mos ago a Dr. pulled her off CT.she has not been the same since.She feels numb all over and shaky most of the time.Could this still be w/d?Any help would be appreciated.

pixi

[The Golden Slipper]

Hi

I am still here and still struggling to stay with my taper.  Have been feeling depressed lately.  I think everything is hitting me all at once.  When reality comes back it can be a real rude awakening.

Still waiting to see the doctor.

Thanks for checking JR and please stay in touch.


Pixi- It is possible your friend is having withdrawal.  I wouldn't think it would go on for 3 months but it certainly is possible. (Especially if she took this drug daily for 15 years)  She may want to check with a doctor who is familiar with the addiction potential of fioricet.  I know that when I have withdrawn from this drug I have had alot of anxiety and shakiness.  The numb feeling is also part of withdrawal.  I have taken low doses of Ativan to help with the shakiness although she would need to be careful with Ativan because it is also extremely addictive.

Please let us know how your friend makes out.  Again, I strongly suggest speaking with a knowledgeable doctor. (An addictionologist if you can find one in your area).

Take Care,
Golden Slipper

[athena]

Thanks for your reply.Shes seeing her neurologist tomorrow.I don't really think it could be withdrawls,she takes 40mg hydro,40mg valium,neurontin 4 times dailt,100mg of phenergan daily...need I go on?lolAnaddictologist would quit his job and head for the hills.lol
I do hope you start feeling better.I will keep you in my prayers.

pixi

[The Golden Slipper]

Wow she is on alot of medication, in that case I don't think she is having withdrawal from the butalbital.  Hopefully her doc can help her.

Thanks for the prayers, I sure need them.

Golden Slipper

[athena]

she has a doc to kill for.lol i hope your having a good day.

pixi

[FiorinalJR]

It sure could BE withdrawal, based on my experience.  I went thru detox and quit CT about 12 years ago (was taking about 10 Fioricets/day).  I was shaky, crampy, couldn't concntrate or sleep, etc. for about 4 months, and my PCP finally put me back ON FIoricet after having tried  everything in the book.  I was OK for a while but then started increasing my use.

Now tapering off again.  Withdrawal lasts a LOT longer than MD's will admit, especially after long term daily use!  Fioricet is vfery very nasty!

Hi, too, GS - good to hear from you.  I see my neurologist . addictionologist today for a follow up.

[athena]

Good morning and thanks for the info.I will pass it along to my friend and maybe she could ask the Dr. if this may be the problem.I hope you have a good day.

pixi

[The Golden Slipper]

Thought you would be interested in hearing this story:

A friend of mine at a 12-step meeting gave me the name of an addiction doctor in Plymouth, MA which is much closer than Burlington for me since I live south of Boston.

I called to make an appt. figuring it was closer and I might be able to get an appt. quicker.  The doctor's assistant told me that I would have to see a counselor at Highpoint treatment center before I could see the doctor.  I agreed, and had an appt. yesterday afternoon at 3:00P.M.  I met with the counselor and told her that I would like to see the doc.  She told me he only treats people who go through their detox and that I should have myself admitted.  I explained that I was tapering and, although it was hard, I seem to be doing ok.

She then became rather harsh with me and made it sound like I was looking to see this doc to get drugs.  I told her that I wouldn't see an addiction doctor to try to score drugs, I sincerely want a medical opinion on this medication.  Then she tells me well you know it is an opiate and very dangerous. I said well no it is not an opiate it is a barbituate. I think she became a little defensive at that point and pretty much told me I should have myself admitted to the detox.

To make a long story short, I called the Burlington office again and luckily I have an appt. for Tuesday, November 19th.  Apparently there was a cancellation.

I was really upset about the way I was treated. I don't think this counselor understood what fioricet was even though she said she did.  I have been taking the stuff for 20 years and I know what's in it.

So the latest plan is that I keep this appt. on the 19th and travel the distance to Burlington.

I'm curious what your thoughts are on this.  I know you had a bad experience with the inpatient detox.

Take Care and hope you are doing well

Golden Slipper

[percsnomas]

GS: I know how frustrating these people, that are supposed to be helping us, can be.  While checking my mother in law in at a detox last week, with the "experienced" on staff nurse....i was shocked to hear that she thought Vicoden(hydrocodone) was just codeine. Now although vikes are a lot less popular here in Canada(percs are the biggy), give me a break!!
As F.Jr. said hang in there, it's only just over a week away....maybe somthing really good will happen that day, as it is the last day i took a percocet....19th (of Aug.)

F.Jr.: It has to be a relief finally landing a compassionate and competent doctor.  I guess we all share some of the same problems with substance abuse; my particular sub. of choice was oxycodone, and i am relieved to be staying in recovery after a 3-4 year perc love affair. It hasn't been a walk in the park, but I'm really thrilled how good it's going lately(energy is back, etc)
Again TAKE CARE....I'm thinking about you both

[FiorinalJR]

Wow!  It sounds like those people either don't know what they're talking about or don't WANT to.  while detox may be the answer for some things, it is NOT the answer for this stuff - the detox docs don't understand barbiturates.  And, they think the 12-step program is the be all and end all.  Sorry, but it's not.

My neurologist/addictionologist said she did NOT recommend detox for me, and that tapering was the way to go.  Part of the reason being that it takes months - not just a few weeks to get off Fioricet after long term daily use.  3 weeks in detox doesn't help.

Also, detox doesn't address the core issue which is the headaches that caused you to start taking Fc in the first place!  By going to a headache/addiction specialist, you get help in tapering while at the same time, help with the headaches and withdrawal symtoms.

Glad you opted out of that place in Plymouth.  It sounds like all they are looking for is the money they make from detox!  Stick with your plan and wait until th 19th.  You can do it!

Be well.    jr

[percsnomas]

Haven't posted to you before, but just want you to know I've been following both of your situations for some time, and although I have nothing to add, I just want you both to know I'm pulling for you BIGTIME!!!

[The Golden Slipper]

Thanks for the encouraging words!!

[FiorinalJR]

Thanks for the words, Percs!  I am doing very well, thanks in oart to finally finding the RIGHT doctor to help me solve both problems.    She is there, ready to help me, I don't have to lie to her, and she has assured me that hse will not leave me hanging.  I even have her beeper number so that if I have a really bad headache and don't know what to do, I can reach her immediately.  I had to once, she called me, and she prescribed some "escape medication" - enough for that one episode.  It worked, and I stayed on track.

Golden Slipper, I am pulling for you.  Your appointent is only about 10 days away.  HANG IN THERE - you can do it!

Percs, I don't know if you're also fighting the same type of problems, but if you are, I wish you the best.  And again, thanks for the kind words.

[FiorinalJR]

Gee, I was just reading some of my posts.  Sure so wish this forum had a spell checker!  Hope everyone is doing well.  Hang in there!!!

[FiorinalJR]

GS, are you wstill around?  How are you doing?  I just read your post on Soma - DON'T!!!!!  I had that years ago for back pain, and luckily stopped after a few weeks.  Messed me up too much!

Let m/us know how you're doing!

[The Golden Slipper]

I am still here.  I did not get the script for Soma.  (Although I can't say I wasn't tempted).  My sister had a bad experience with it a few days ago and that convinced me to stay away.

I am still struggling to taper the fioricet. I have a headache just about every day lately, and I am concerned that I am using too much imitrex.  It is totally non-addicting but I still don't think I should use it everyday.  The problem is I have a job and responsibilities and I have to function.  When I get headaches I get alot of other symptoms such as sensitivity to light nausea, vomiting you name it. They are very incapacitating.

When I go the the doc next Tuesday will I need to give the names of all the doctors who are prescribing the fioricet.  For some reason I am feeling very nervous about it.  I have one doctor who knows he is the one who is giving me the taper fioricet.  There are a few other doctors and 1 dentist who have also prescribed for me in the past.  I have this horrible fear that I will have to give the names of all of them. If I have to I will but for some reason it scares me.  Not to mention the horrible shame I would feel if they all found out.

I am prepared to do whatever I have to to get well. Right now I guess I am having irrational fears of being totally cut off. I guess it's part of the addiction playing with my head.

The reality of what I have been doing is finally setting in and it is not a nice feeling.

I am concerned about some of the other posters (Connie, Not2far from fiorinal and a few others.  I haven't seen any posts recently from them.)  I pray they are doing ok.

How are you doing?  How many pills are you down to and how have your headaches been.

GS

[The Golden Slipper]

I meant to say in my last post that my sister had a problem with Soma a few years ago, not a few days ago.

Also, I can't believe how horrible my grammar is.  I asked you a bunch of questions and didn't even use a question mark.

Would you believe my job is Executive Assistant to a big executive and I have to produce really important documents with correct grammar.  I hope the pills aren't doing this to me. I'm so afraid I will lose my job over this.

I think I am a bit paranoid today.  Will I ever feel normal again???????

GS

[FiorinalJR]

Yes, you WILL feel normal again.  It's hard to believe.  Trust me, the doc you will be seeing can be trused - but you have to be honest with her and with yourself.  Give her the names of all the docs  you have been getting scripts from, and trust her!  She will not leave you hanging.  And, if you keep some of the docs secret, you WILL use them again.  You need to get off this stuff!

I too feel crappy some days, but that was more at the beginning.  You will feel better.  I too have a very responsible jb, and have somehow been able to function.  I'm down to 7 a day now.  Tapering is slowing down as it gets harder, and the doc understands.

YOU CAN DO THIS!  I'm hoping and praying for you!

JR

[The Golden Slipper]

Thanks for the encouraging words.  I will give the doc whatever info she asks for.  You are absolutely right, if I keep them secret I will use them again.

Have a good day

GS

[never to far from fiorinal]

I am still here. I feel I will always crave Fioricet.
If I have been without it for a few weeks I start dreaming
about it and finding a way to get it in my dream.
I have never gone the more then one doctor route. Just
the internet as my second scource.
I'm glad everyone is still hanging in there. My computer was messed up for a few days so I was glad to catch up.

[The Golden Slipper]

Good to hear from you.  I know how it feels to crave this drug.  It is so so powerful!!!

I will keep you in my thoughts.  

Please keep posting and let us know how you are.

Golden Slipper

[Connie51]

Hello Everyone!

I have not been on the forum because I went into inpatient detox in a hehab-hospital Oct. 28th in Ct. It was done once again with valium which was tapered down during my 8 day stay.
This time was totally different. It was much harder. The head Doctor there said that with each w/d it gets harder and harder. I di get rebound headaches this time (still do) which I did not get in the Spring during detox. I was taking 8 a day at that time. I was up to 10 this time when I went in. I still shake a bit and the cravings are still here. My family has cut off all ties to getting the fioricet. I am thankful for that but it is very hard. Jr. is right, it takes a long time to leave your body. This I was not aware of, because the last time I did not feel this bad.
Life is better though in many ways. I am so much more aware of everything. My laugh is genuine, not forced. Is it still hard...YES. Especially the mornings.
I talked to Golden Slipper and it is very important to take B vitamins as your liver has been working hard to disolve the chemicals. this was stressed to us very strongly. You can either eat the foods high in the B's or take the supplements. It would not hurt to do both for a while. Just follow directions because too much B is not good either. A lack of B promotes nervousness and fatigue. The lack of it also effects the immune system something awful. I know it is true because I never felt well, I was always sick with one ailment or another.
I am feeling much stronger. It is the cravings that is a killer. It will pass though.
I am a long way from conquering this. The hard part has just begun so I will be needing you all as much as ever.
If this is helpful to any one, at no time did I ever feel close to a seizure. This does not mean it could not happen but I do think one must be taking quite a few of them to be in real danger, according to the Docs. where I was anyway.It was one of the best around so I have to feel that they knew what they were talking about.
Please take care of yourself everyone and I shall continue to post. I am still there with you even though I am no longer taking them. ONE DAY AT A TIME!

CONNIE

[Sparkyswife]

Fioricet contains a lot of Tylenol, and that much will ruin your liver, which disposes of waste and keeps you resilient enough to get over things like... Fioricet.

Replace the Fioricet with plain Fiorinal capsules that contain only the barbiturate; this ingredient lasts longer in your body than the other ingredients in Fioricet or its "family" of combination drugs.  If the capsules have too much medicine in them for one dose (it could happen), because you can't snap them in two pieces like Fioricet, then buy some acidophilus or gelatin capsules, empty them out, and fill them half full with the barbiturate. Sounds ridiculous, but it works. Looks pretty shady if someone walks in on you, though.....

Taking Fioricet for too long can cause rebound headaches too. As you start to cut back, one per day let's say, you'll feel VERY sluggish. The OLD barbiturate is built up in your body and will make you tired, kind of zoned out.  The new barbiturate says let's party - and gives you either the high that some get/seek or the "oomph" that others need from the medicine.

The big problem with Fioricet is that the barbiturate, besides helping with pain, makes you feel acceptable, capable, you name it.  If you want to be off this stuff, do yourself a favor and have someone video tape you when the first dose of the day kicks in.  You won't recognize yourself; there will be a blabbering extrovert in the picture, wearing your clothes. I've seen her - she was me!!

Under no circumstances should you quit cold turkey; this is the only drug that can create withdrawal that will truly harm you.

Trust me, I know what I'm saying. Have been on Fioricet's big brother, Fiorinal #3, for 3 years for whiplash, and my husband for 15 years while doctors decided whether he needed back surgery. Well, he ended up with surgery and a nice addiction which brought me to this site tonite - I had to invite him to leave for a few days because of how this stuff affects behavior: lie, sneak, steal, creep around to take my few capsules so he can take them along with his many.  

The stuff can makes slightly agitated people into ranting raging lunatics and just plain MEAN. If you can control your consumption and continue with this stuff, I strongly recommend you vary the dosage in order to keep in touch with how the real you behaves without the medicine; don't lose yourself.  God love you.

[never to far from fiorinal]

I checked at rxlist.com just to make sure I had my facts straight.
Fiorinal is also a compound. Instead of tylenol like fioricet, fiorinal has asprin. Withdrawl from the caffiene in this combination pill can be painful too. I will take non perscription Ecedrin for a little relief.

[falling]

I need some help! To get off fioricet....

What a relief it is to see ppl with the same prob as me.

Before I go into detail I am asking someone to respond to this post so I know ppl are reading it and I don't wast all my time typing my story.

Thanks so much, =)

[The Golden Slipper]

First of all I want to welcome you to this forum.

Please post and tell us your story.  I am at work but I check this site frequently during the day.

Please post and give us some information.  There are 3 or 4 of us that check these postings pretty regularly.

I know how scared you must be!! Give us some more info. such as length of time you have been using.  How many you take daily and how often you take them.

I will be looking for your post


Golden Slipper

[falling]

Thanks soooo much for posting back...
I am glad I'm not the only one with this problem...

*First use was Fioronal sometimes w/coedine occassionally for
migraines. Never took it much tho.

*Prob when I got really hooked was during my 3rd pregnancy (1995)
as I could not take Imitrex etc for my migraines. After the pregnancy I really started refilling my scripts as soon as the
insurance would let me.

*In 98, moved about 150 miles away, small town, dr gave me one script of firocet, when I asked for more he said he refused to treat me and I should find someone else.

*About 2 months later found another doc, he let me have some firocet but then made me taper down as he wanted to try other meds and have me totally off the firocet.

*I was off the firocet for about 6 months, trying hormone patches, anti-depressants, a whole lot (not all at the same time) =), to see if they could find something to prevent my migraines.

*After no success I told him honestly I felt the best on the firocet.  Off or on the firocet I'd wake up at 4 or 5 am with what I called my "nose headache" a prelude to a migraine but if I
popped two firocets it would go away.  Then later on in the am I'd take 2 more and that was about it and how I went on for about 2 years I guess.

*I was honest with him and said I would take more than the 4 per day especially during my periods and the migraines I get during them, cause the co-pay on the Imitrex and Maxalt etc drugs is 30.00 for me, and I could not afford it. So I tried (and still do) try to beat the migraine with the firocet before I go for the Imitrex.
He seemed pretty convinced I was not abusing it and went ahead and let me have a standing script for 8 per day but could not refill any earlier than 30 days.

*Moved back over here, went to same dr I had when I was pregnant, had my files transferred but my new doc is only writing me a script for 6 pills a day only to be filled every 30 days.

For the last 4 months I have always run out before the time my insurance allows me to get a refill. I try to drink caffine when I run out of firocet so I don't get rebound headaches and even have found that Tylenol Cold and Flu for some odd reason is a half-assed substitute when I don't have the firocet.

The doctor that prescribed me 8 a day, and I, talked at length about my usage, and that yeah your body becomes dependent on it, but I have been going thru a lot of stress and anxiety the past year and I have seen myself using the firocet more and more.

I always have been concerned about how much I take because I know you can or should only take so much Tylenol a day so I would never go over the 8 pills, but the last few months, I get stressed and just pop them, hell I don't even know why, and I lose track of how many I take.  

I am more worried about acetemetiphine (sp)? overdose than the butabital overdose and I know they put the acetemetiphine in there to prevent the butabital overdose.

I have always known my body was addicted to the firocet for some time now, but I obviously have to admit it is more than that if I am running out of my scripts early.

Last month I went without for 2 weeks. Oh man, I was bitchy, irritable, my muscles were all tight but I made it thru (I did use a lot of Imitrex for my headaches tho) but just like I have read in here, the day I could refill my script, I took a pop to the pharmacy with me and as soon as I got my firocet I went to the truck and popped 2.

I know I need to get a handle on this, I am scared to totally go off as maybe it is what is helping prevent my migraines.
I know my first step is just to get back to the 6 per day, then.. start tapering down....

Sorry I am rambling on, I just have never been able to talk to anyone about this....

My other medical history

* 40 mg Prozac a day - anxiety/depression
*  1 mg of Klonopin a day - anxiety/panic attacks/prevent tension
                            headaches
* 40 mg of Inderal a day - high blood pressure

Anyway that is enough for now, I am hoping that I can get some support from those to help me get a handle on this problem I am having....  thanks again

[The Golden Slipper]

You are not alone!! There are many of us out there hooked on this drug.

One thing I have learned is that it can actually cause headaches.  I know it has happened to me, when I don't have the fioricet I have a constant headache, when I have it the headache will go away but always returns and then I need to take more.  These are "rebound headaches".  The "butalbital" which is a barbituate is dangerous because when you go through withdrawal it is possible to experience seizures.  This is why you need to find a doctor who will help you to go off of them safely.

Please try not to go beyond 6 pills a day and try to talk to a doctor about tapering off of this drug.  I know how powerful the urge is to pop them.  I did the same thing as you I would buy a bottle of water and then go to the pharmacy, pick up my pills and pop 2 the minute I got in the car.  I couldn't even wait until I got home.

I was going to many different doctors and different pharmacies all over town.  It is so insane!! Please try to get some help it sounds like you haven't gotten as crazy as I was and believe me you don't want to.

I have an appt. tomorrow morning with an addiction doctor.  I will write when I get back and let you know what she says about tapering.  I am now down to just a few pills per day and am hoping I will be able to stop them soon.

It only gets worse!! Take it from one who knows.

Please stay in touch with us and keep posting


Golden Slipper

[falling]

thanks so much for posting back.  Yes, I will be very interested in what your dr says. =)

At one point in time I had a tapering schedule my dr gave me but I never did it.

I am at such a stressfull time in my life, just moved, looking for a job, single mom supporting 3 kids, so it is scary think of going off the firocet but yet I know I can't keep on making
excuses either...

I am so glad I found this place!

[Connie51]

Hello eveyone,
Golen Slipper, I am having a problem with my outlook express so if I do not get in touch with you, I am thinking of you today and please let me know how it goes with the new Doc. I am getting mail in but having a problem sending out.

Falling, please hang in there. You will get off of them. There are wonderful people on this forum and we are all in the same shoes. We help each other. We care for each other.

I must head off to work but will write soon.
Connie

[falling]

The day I first posted here, I made myself give my boyfriend about 2 weeks of pills so I would not run out.  
Tonite he came over and I read him exerpts from all the posts.

Thank God he does not judge me and wants to help.

One thing bothers me or rather makes me curious.

Although I 99% of the time wake up with a headache and pop 2 firocets like it seems most do, I do NOT get the rebound headaches while on the drug.  I only get them when I stop taking it cold turkey.

Here is a thought I want to bounce off all of you.

Do you think I am taking more because my anxiety/panic has been way worse and the butabital numbs me and calms me down and after an hour or so it wears off and I am getting rebound anxiety???

[The Golden Slipper]

I am quite sure your anxiety and headaches are due to the rebound from the fioricet.  I say this only from personal experience.  The same thing always happens to me when I stop taking the fioricet.

I am currently seeing a doctor who is helping me to taper off of this nasty drug.  I should be completely off of it within a few days.  She said at the dosage I was taking (4 pills a day) that was down from 8 a day trying to taper on my own, I would not experience a seizure.  She did say, however, that it is very important to do this with medical help.

It is very hard to do on your own.  The temptation to take too many is way to great.  Atleast that was the case for me.

I am scared because I am sure I will experience both anxiety and headaches, that has been my experience with past withdrawals.  Maybe I will be luckier this time but I am prepared for the worst.

Try, if you can, to find a doctor who understands this drug and can help you safely withdraw from it.

Please keep posting, I and the others on this forum understand your dilemma.

Take Care
Golden Slipper

[LinnieSue]

Hi,I finally found what I've been looking for. A fioricet addiction
forum. I read all the post and I have to say I'm so greatful for all the info. I will post my story soon....but right now I'm sooo
tired of all the reading.
I e-mailed goldengang and I want you to know you can e-mail me anytime. My address is ***@****.
This is going to be a hard fight. Thank God I'm not alone.

                                    Linnie

[The Golden Slipper]

I will look for you email to goldengang when I get home this evening.  I will also email you at the address your posted.

Welcome to the forum!

[FiorinalJR]

Wow - I never had any idea that there were so many people hooked!  That includes me.  I DO have a medical background (and should know better), but I was taking as many as 18 to 20 Fioricets-some were Fiorinal #3 - per day.  I was so used to them that I couldn't live without them, and I was functioning normally.  No one knew about my problem.

There have been a lot of questions posted, and a lot of "facts" stated, many from people who got the info from their doctors. Doctors who really don't know.  Here are some REAL facts, and believe me, they are true:

- Almost anybody who takes Fioricet/Fiorinal/Esgic is hooked to some extent, REALLY!

- Fioricet and Esgic are exactly the same: butalbital, caffiene and acetaminophen (Tylenol).  Same quantities of each.  By the way, the amount of caffiene - about one cup of coffee.  Fiorinal is the same thing, but with aspirin instead of tylenol.  Fioricet #3 or Fiorinal #3 are the same, but also have 30 mg of Codiene.

- Different people have different tolerance levels.  Some really do get hooked on only a few pills per day. Others take 10 or more per day.

- They all cause tolerance, meaning that the longer you take them the more you need to get the same relief. That's why people like me end up where I was - taking 20 per day, and still able to function (I'm down to 7/day now)

- The reason it's so hard to get off these is that when you taper or quit cold (don't do this!) is that you almost instantly get rebound headaches (these are the worst ones you get even while taking the stuff).  You can tell a rebound headache - it's constant pain in your whole head, usually doesn't throb.  If you are tapering, you will have the rebound headache for the whole time you taper - if you quit cold, you will have them really bad, and they will last for up to a month.  You can take Ibuprophin (Motrin, Advil, etc.) - or you can take tylenol.  They will help some and will not cause rebounds.

- Acetominophen causes liver damage with long term use; aspirin causes stomach problems (ulcers, etc.). I know - I had to have stomach surgery some years ago because of all the aspirin I was getting with Fiorinal.

- Most doctors do NOT know how dangerous the Butalbital is.  If you tell a good story to a PCP, most will prescribe Fioricet, etc. for you.  They know how to prescribe it, but they don't know how to get you off of it

- The only way to succesfully quit is to get a good neurologist willing to help, or an "addictionologist" - somebody who knows about barbiturates.  They will taper you very slowly.  Quitting by one pill a day will not work - that's too fast!

- Butalbital stays in your system for 4 to 6 WEEKS!  That's why it's so hard to quit.  On the other hand, Codeine only stays in your bloodstream for about 24 to 48 hours.  It's relatively easy to quit the Codeine if you're taking " #3 ".

- Because the barbiturate stays in your system for so long, in-patient detox does NOT work.  They take you in-house for 28 days and usually give you phenobarbital or something to help.  But, after 28 days, you are still physically hooked.  They release you, encourage the 12-step programs, etc. - but if your body is still craving the drug, you WILL get hooked again.

- If you do somehow manage to quit, all you need to get hooked again is ONE pill.  It's just like smoking.  One is all it takes.

- Quitting cold turkey or tapering too fast CAN cause seizures, although it's rare, they can happen and can lead to coma and even death.

- The only way to do it successfully is to find the right doctor, and taper SLOWLY.  I went from 20 to 10/day very quickly on my own.  That was hell.  Then it got tough.  Luckily, I found a neurologist who specializes in headaches and in medication abouse/overuse - especially Fioricet, etc.  I am being tapered down by one pill every 2 to 3 weeks, and that's tough.

- You need help while tapering.  Your doctor should give you something that is not addictive.  I am on Neurontin, I have workied up to 600 mg., four times a day.  It works for me, calms me down without knocking me out, prevents some migraines, and makes everything more tolerable.  And, it is NOT addictive.  Yes, I still get rebound headaches, but I have learned to live with them, and I can take Advil Migraine, 2 pills a few times a day and they help some.  I also have Amerge (like Immitrex) for when I really do get a true migraine.

- My doc told me that it will take me about 4 to 6 months to get from the 7 or 8 a day to not needing F'cet anymore.  She is doing a very slow taper - from experince, she knows that's the only way

- If your doc recommends detox, find another doc.  If they recommend counseling or AA/NA, etc., get another doc.  This is mainly a PHYSICAL problem.  You need to get that resolved first.

- Don't worry about liver damage from the tylenol or Advil for now.  Get off this junk first, then you won't need the other stuff.  Your liver can repair itself.

- Above all, don't feel guilty!  As you can tell from this forum, there are many people addicted to Fioricet, etc.  And for everyone who posts here there are probably 100 more who don't.  None of us asked for this.  Some doc got us addicted, because they either don't know or don't care about the long term effects.  All they want to do is give you something, then move on to the next patient.  They only care about you when they start to worry about losing there licenses or getting in trouble with the FDA or DEA!  Then they cut you off.


- Know that you all have friends right here, and we can help.  Yes, quitting is very scary and painful, but it CAN be done, and while you will go through some pain and tough times, you will feel much better once you have quit.

- We're all pulling for each other.  Let's beat this "monkey" and get on with our lives.  Our prayers and wishes for success to all!  Keep posting and let us know how you're doing, please.

JR

[FiorinalJR]

Hi Golden Slipper.  Did you get to see that doc at Lahey Clinic?  How are you doing?

JR

[LinnieSue]

Thanks GS for responding. I was up half the night reading everything from Sept. to date. I already made an appt. with Dr.Moheban......But it's not till Feb.
I have been on fioricets/fiorinal for 15 years maybe more. In the last 3 0r 4 years its been every day......sometimes as much as 10 per day. I detoxed about a year ago in a place where I don't think they knew much about it. I was there 10 days on Phenobarbital and let me say the first few days were the worst in my life. When I got out I started taking them again only two days after. I thought I could contol it.........I  was so depressed. I am so sick of of being controlled by this drug.
I will try to cut back until my Dr. appt. Or maybe find another detox. Thank you all for being here. I can identify with every thing I read.  Oh, and migraines got me here too. I had them at 10 years old.
                             Linnie

[The Golden Slipper]

JR - I am doing ok I saw the doc on Tuesday and am on a tapering program.  It wont be as lengthy as yours because I was down to 4 a day for the past month or so.

It is still very scary though.  I wake up in the morning and I am literally salivating wanting to take my usual 2 pills with my coffee.  The panic I feel when I first wake up is indescribable.
I do have a constant dull thudding headache which I am trying to learn to live with. If it gets really bad I use an icepack or a hot compress on my head when I am home to help releive the pain.  I also can take imitrex if it becomes really incapacitating.

It was very hard for me to tell my story to the doc having to explain how long this has gone on and my means for obtaining the drug.  I couldn't even remember the names or faces of some of the doctors.

All I can do now is do what I have to to get better.  I do attend an AA meeting on Wednesday evening, I have been going to this meeting for years and I find it very comforting.  THere are people there who also used prescriptions drugs along with drinking.

LinnieSue-I am glad you made an appt. with the doctor. I was able to taper some on my own but it is very difficult. If you have those pills they are as big as life and you want to take them.  I finally got to the point where I would leave my pills at home when I went to work.  That way I would have no access to them until I got home. I hated it and during the day I thought about them and how I wished I had them with me but I forced myself to do that. That is how I tapered down to 4 pills (2 in the morning and then 2 when I got home at night).  It wasn't easy but I was also at the point where I was running out of doctors and pharmacies so i had to force myself to slow down.

Sorry for the long-winded story, please keep posting to us and let us know how you are doing.


Golden Slipper

[FiorinalJR]

I'm glad you got to see the doc.  Hope you liked her.  She WILL help you, and don't be afraid to call her anytime, if you feel you can't "take it" any more.  She is great about that.  Keep me posted on how you're doing.

Linnie Sue, hang in there.  Keep calling and see if there's a cancellation and maybe you can get in to see her sooner.  Meanwhile, good luck!

We're pulling for you.

JR

[FiorinalJR]

Hi Connie.  Glad that detox worked for you.  I did 28 days of in-house ten years ago, but it did NOT help.  I really tried too.  But it does work for some people.

How are you doing?  Still off the Fio's ????

We're all pulling for you!

JR

[Connie51]

Thank you so much for writing. I have been off them since Oct. 28th but it is a constant struggle yet. You were absolutely right about the duration of this stuff staying in your body. No doctor had ever mentioned it taking a long time to leave your body. When I read what you wrote, that would explain why after even this amount of time I feel it is still more than mental!

I think you know a lot about what you are talking about. I can see you have studied it extensively. This is great for all of us. You are also to be greatly admired for going from 20 to 7. If it had not been that after 9 or 10 I had nausea, there is no doubt that I would not have reached that amount eventually. They do a number on your stomach.....BUT WE TOOK THEM ANYWAY! You must be feeling pretty good about yourself. You should!

We have quite a crew here now. Here I thought (honestly) that I was the only one! I am not kidding. I knew of no one else with this addiction! When doctors knew nothing about getting me off them I thought....wow, this must be rare!
I have learned so much from you and the others.
Please Take Care Everyone
Connie

[The Golden Slipper]

JR - The doc has me taking neurontin.  It has really helped to keep me calm and although I have experienced some insomnia I am able to get a fairly good nights sleep.

I am now off of the fioricet but am taking the neurontin 3 times a day.  I do find it is somewhat sedating during the day.  I was just curious if you had the same reaction when you first started taking it. I will see how I am tomorrow but may call on Monday and see if the dose can be changed.

You have come a long way keep up the good work.

Connie- Hope you are doing ok.  Are you experiencing any anxiety or insomnia??  I haven't heard you mention it.  These are some of the common withdrawal symptoms that I have experienced in the past.  As I said to JR this neurontin (an anti-seizure med) seems to be helping a bit.  It is non-addicting so is safe for us to take.  (Keep remembering everytime you get to 12:00 midnight it is another step towards total freedom from this nightmare).

LinneSue - I hope you are doing ok please keep posting and letting us know how you are.

Nottoofar and anyone else who has posted - I hope you guys are still out there and let us know how you are doing.

Hope you are all having a good weekend.

[LinnieSue]

Hi Everyone.........First, thanks for the caring and the support.I can't tell you how much it means. I cut back a bit but not as good as I wanted. Today I'm am going to really make an effort.
The thing is I have lots of anxiety.......it's really scary at times mostly at night when I wake up......heart beating....head ponding. Not to mention the terrible depression. Now last year when I was in detox they prescibed antidepresssives.....I never took it long enough also I had a very low dose of the neurontin to take as needed. Well I didn't want all those drugs in my body so I didn't take anything but the familiar infamous Fiorinal. Bad move. Now I am willing to start the intidepression med. It is suppose to help with anxiety as well. I don't think I will take the neurontin too. I have heard is works well but does make one sleepy. A lower dose may help that.
Anyway I hear lots of possitive things about these antidepression meds. So I think I may start them. I can't keep putting it off. I will post again soon......Linnie

[LinnieSue]

Hi Everyone.........First, thanks for the caring and the support.I can't tell you how much it means. I cut back a bit but not as good as I wanted. Today I'm am going to really make an effort.
The thing is I have lots of anxiety.......it's really scary at times mostly at night when I wake up......heart beating....head ponding. Not to mention the terrible depression. Now last year when I was in detox they prescibed antidepresssives.....I never took it long enough also I had a very low dose of the neurontin to take as needed. Well I didn't want all those drugs in my body so I didn't take anything but the familiar infamous Fiorinal. Bad move. Now I am willing to start the intidepression med. It is suppose to help with anxiety as well. I don't think I will take the neurontin too. I have heard is works well but does make one sleepy. A lower dose may help that.
Anyway I hear lots of possitive things about these antidepression meds. So I think I may start them. I can't keep putting it off. I will post again soon......Linnie

[Connie51]

It was so good to hear from you. I had been thinking about you constantly!
That is great that the neurontoin (spelling) is working. You sound good! Although I am not making light of it, I know how hard it is.
Three cheers for you!
Connie

[FiorinalJR]

Golden Slipper,

Glad to hear you're doing well.  The Neurontin is good stuff.  I have had no negative side effects at all.  It seems like ir calms you down without giving you that "drugged up" feeling that anti-depressenats and other things give you. And it does seem to also raise your threshold of pain, so the headaches from withdrawing aren't as bad.

At first, I was given 300 mg. Neurontin 2 times a day, then 3x then 4x.  Now I'm at 600mg tabs, three times a day.  I's really helping, and no side effects.  If you feel you need a higher dose, or more frequent - the doc won't have a problem increasing it.  It's not a narcotic, and it's not addictive.

Oh, a little piece of info from my new PCP doc.  If you have trouble sleeping, take two Benadryl's a half hour before bed.  You can buy it without a prescription, anywhere.  You can get generic Benedryl everywhere, for about $5 or $6 for 100.  They make you sleepy, they are NOT addictive, no nasty side effects, you don't wake up in the morning feeling groggy and they work!

So, Golden - hang in there and good luck to you and to everyone.  As for me, I'm still tapering.  I just came down from 8 to 7.  It's strange - I went from 20 to 10 in a month (and most of that was Fiorinal #3).  Since early September, it's been only Esgic/Fioricet - tapering from 10 to now 7, no codeine.   I am finding it tough the lower I get, but my addictionologist is being very patient, and actually WANTS me to taper slowly, so I actually get of this stuff and am not tempted to up my dose again.

Good luck, and prayers for all.  We CAN dot this!

[FiorinalJR]

Connie, I hope you're doing well after your detox.  I know it's tough.  They really don't understand barbtirate addiction.  ANd, 21 or 28 days in detox still does not get you physically off the stuff.  Butalbital, the bad stuff in Fioricet/Esgic, stays in your system for 1 to 2 months!  It depends on how much you have taken and fro how long.

I hope you can keep from relapsing.  See if you can get a doc to prescribe Neurontin, and take Advil for the daily headaches.  You CAN do this, COnnie!  Stick with it - we're pulling for you.  And if you "fall off the wagon" or are tenpted, write - we will help get you through this.

As this forum proves, none of us is alone - there is help right here.  Take care, God bless, and be well!

[FiorinalJR]

Conniie, Golden - are you still around?  It's been awfully quiet on this forum!  Hope you both - and everyone - has a Happy Thangsgiving holiday!

JR

[The Golden Slipper]

I am still here JR and doing ok.  I am having daily headaches which I'm treating with Imitrex and excedrin. Other than waking up in the morning to total panic I've been able to stay pretty calm during the day and am sleeping ok at night.

The mornings are tough because the first thing I would do is pop 2 of those pills with a cup of coffee and I'd be off and running. Now I wake up and feel very panicky until I get up and get moving and then it seems to let up.

I do have cravings for the fioricet they seem to come and go and are worse in the morning.

As of this Friday it will be one week without taking any. It is definitely time for me to get my life back.

I hope you are doing well and have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

I think we all have alot to be thankful for this year.

Take Care
Golden Slipper

[FiorinalJR]

G.S., Great to hear from you and that you are doing so well.  A week without any - THAT'S GREAT!  You should be very proud.

I know about the daily headaches - they will go, but it will take time.  Meanwhile, take aspirin, tylenol, Excedrin - or Advil Migraine (2 pills) work really well.

I also know about the panic.  It's justan old habit.  If you need to, carry around some aspirin or Advil, etc. in your pocket.  Take two when you wake up, for now.  You will feel better phyically, and just taking the two will satisfy your old habit of taking the two Fioricets.

The worst is over - stick with it.  I am very happy for you.  And yes, we have a lot to be thankful for.  Have a Happy Thanksgiving, and stay in touch!

JR

[LinnieSue]

Hi everyone, I'm stil here reading the post everyday and I am so happy everyone seems to be really getting off this drug.  It has not been that good for me. I taper off a few days and start feeling good about myself. But then I go back up again. I can't wait till Feb. for this Dr. appt. It's such a long time off.
I am going on vacation the begining of Jan. for a month in Fl. so I wish I could to do something before I leave. I don't think I could get off of them by then.......I still take 8 to 10 a day.
Please feel free to e-mail me ***@****. I e-mailed golden slipper......but have not heard back yet. Did you say your name was Anne? I thought I got an e-mail from you signed Maureen. I'm so confused. Anyway I live an hour from Boston.
close to the MA and RI border.
Everyone have a Happy Thanksgiving.
Good luck Connie,Golden Slipper,and fiorinalJR
          
                             Linnie

[LinnieSue]

I was thinking most of us has use this drug all our adult life.
we have created a certain life that I'm sure would have been different. I know mine would have been. When I cut down the anxiety is very hard due to the person these pills have made me.
It aways seems to make me go back. Do you all feel some what like this?

[The Golden Slipper]

That was me that emailed you my name is Maureen but I use to always go by my middle name "Anne".  It's a little confusing but you can call me Maureen.

I'm glad that you did get my reply to you e-mail. I am having a hard day today, I have a headache that will not quit and I am also having cravings for the fioricet.  I don't feel the usual anxiety that goes along with withdrawals.  That could be from the drug "neurontin" that was prescribed for me by the doc.  I take that 3 times a day.

It is really hard to taper and I know what you are going through only too well. I'm glad you made the appt. with the doctor I know it seems far away but it will be here before you know it.  You also might want to call the office and tell them to let you know if there are any cancellations.  That's what I did and I was able to get an earlier appt.

I live about 1/2 hour south of Boston.  So we probably don't live too far from each other.

Please keep posting and I hope you and your family have a wonderful Thanksgiving. (We are expecting 15 people in an hour so I have to do something about this nagging headache.)

Take Care and keep in touch

[FiorinalJR]

Glad you're all holding on, even though it's tough.  That nagging headache is a rebound headache from the Fioricet.  I have had one, everyday, from the time I wake up until I go to bed, for the past 6 weeks or so!  Taking more Fioricet will only make the headache worse when it wears off.

I have resigned myself to having the damned headache until it finally goes away (someday).  And I know that the longer (and more) I take Fioricet, the longer I will have the rebound headaches.  I take Advil Migraine, or Tylenol, or even aspirin (Alka-Seltzer) and they help some.

My doc has me on Neurontin, and it definitly helps with the craving, as well as the intensity of the rebound headaches.  Golden Slipper, you may want to call your doc and tell her how you are feeling and see if maybe the Neurontin should be increased.  She started me with two 300 mg tabs per day, then increased slowly.  SHe just upped me to 800mg three times a day, and things are better.  No side effects, no tiredness or any other effects you might expect.  So call your doc - she will lilely want to increase your Neurontin, as long as you are not having side effects.

We all have bad days, but Fioricet is NOT the answer.  Hang in there and get off the Fioricet.  I am battling with it myself, tapering and now down to 7.  The cut from 8 to 7 has been hard, but I will do it, and then keep dropping.

Hang in there!  We can do this together.  Love to all and a happy holiday weekend!

JR

[The Golden Slipper]

Thanks for the encouraging words.  I made it through yesterday and it wasn't so bad.  I find the type of headache I get kind of ebbs and flows during the day.  It will start to feel better and then WAM it's back again.

I will try your suggestion of Advil Migraine, someone also suggested Excedrin to me.  I have the imitrex for my migraines but these headaches are not migraines and I can tell the difference.

I find I'm tolerating the neurontin very well.  It definitely has helped with the horrible anxiety I normally feel when I have withdrawn in the past.  I may give her a call and ask if she can up the dose a little bit.  Right now I am taking 2 100mg. tablets 3 times a day.  So that is 600 milligrams in total.

I am waiting with anxious anticipation for the day I wake up without this pounding head.  You are right the fioricet will only delay the process.  

Have a great weekend talk to you soon

[Patrice]

Connie, Under no cercmstances do this thing cold turkey.....Fiorinal WD's can kill you.......I have been addicted to every opiate, every barbituate, so I know.....DO NOT take one less pill a day, I am not a doctor, but I was told by a doctor to take one less pill every week....And Please, if you go to NA meetings, dont let the "doctors" in the program tell you to quit coldd turkey, you could have a seizur and die if u are alone.... I dont even know why dtors prescribe firocet for migraines, that drug is for tenion headaches......If you cant afford imetrex, try Midrin....My doctor says it works wonders....It dodnt work for me, only imetrex does, but it wont hurt to try.....One of my dearest friends commited suiccide because his sponser told him to quit taking his paxil, because he wouldnt be welcome in NA...He hung himself.....Na Natzis kill people with their words....Methadone works for me, And I will stay on it as long as it works for me..My "friends of almost 20 years cut me loose, because I am on methadone.....How dare they deny me a drug that has saved my life.....I was spending $90.00 on heroin, and now I pay $195.00 a month for my methadone BIG DIFFERENCE...  Just think one thing.Dope fiends in NA, worry so much about why they say what they said, they anilize everything. so how can they be "happy, joyest and free"?  If you all dont like what I have posted oh well, just pass it by

[falling]

Hi all... been a stranger to this forum the past week... mainly I ran out of my firocet.  I had a few left, was cutting them in halves and 1/4ths just so I could at least have "some" in my system on a daily basis.

Man I'm telling you the past week has been hell. Bitchy mood, irritable, anxiety to the point I did not even turn on the computer for days...

And... last nite I got my refill, and guess what? I popped 8 last nite from 5pm to 12 pm and this am (3:00 am till now 9:00 am) I have had prob 6.  It's like eating freakin candy!

I could put a big "L" on my head for loser, but I know in here I can post and be safe.

I read the posts about anxiety, very interesting.... something I am going to look into, but I have been on Neurontin and it did not seem to help but heck I can maybe give it another try???

My main worry is that I am a single mom and am terrified that my kids will be taken away from me if I seek help.  That at least the father of my youngest or my mom of all people will find out and take action to deem me as an unfit mother.

Why do I take the freakin pills, like this morning? Who knows?

But I committ to posting in here, I am not expecting to get off it in a week or two and I know it will take time but I also do need to set a goal.  Looking into an addiction doctor is something I have never heard of and will be doing this week.

I only have told my boyfriend and a good online friend about this, and the hell with it, I am going to post my e-mail addy, so if anyone wants to e-mail me direct or just give support, I think I will need it.  That is a big step for me. I know I prob could go on like this taking firocet and most likely but not for sure keep it under control, but after reading all this, I really do look at me taking this drug in a whole diff way.

My e-mail is melk1964 @ aol.com.

Thanks for all the support in here, I stumbled upon this by accident but believe everything happens for a reason.

Take care all, will post soon.

Goal for tomorrow, just only take my 6 per day that is prescribed. Then go from there....

Also, I can take very extremely open  honest feedback, so go for it.  I tend to think of it as constructive critisizim.
To improve myself as a person.

Thanks again! =)

[Rex1]

Hi and welcome.

First, you will get more responses if you post at or near the top, even if its not on the subject of the thread.

Hopefully many here will respond who have experience with this drug. I do not.

But as for why you take pills like this - you're an addict like the rest of us. Accepting that makes way for what follows next -recovery.

Good luck and welcome.

Rex

[LinnieSue]

Hello, how is everyone doing? I have not seen any postings the last few days. I have been thinking about everyone and wondering how your all coming along.
Connie, how have you been doing now that your out of rehab? I hope things are getting better for you. I don't know what I'm going to do yet. I have not cut down and I really don't know why......I should be trying hard because I leave for vacation Jan. 8th and I return Feb 2......that's along time to be away and I am started to worry.
I'm going to call the clinic tomorrow and try to get an earlier
appt. I suppose I could try and find another Dr. But I have never found one that worked for me.
FiorinaJR......how are you doing? Are you still down to seven pills? I worry about how long it takes to get off of these. And also I am very petite....105lbs. I wonder if that makes a difference. I hope you are doing ok.
GS......hope you headaches are better. I miss hearing from all of you. I will try again to cut back tomorrow......If not I may have to check into a detox. Something I really don't what to do.
But I am having a very hard time.
                                    LinnieSue

[The Golden Slipper]

Sorry to hear you are having such a hard time.  Believe me I know what you are going through.  I am doing better but still having cravings for the damn pills and some headaches but they aren't nearly as bad as they were.

You could call the doc and see if you can get an earlier appt.  You could also do a search on the internet and try to find an addiction doctor closer to you.  I know that Mass General Hospital has a very good program and they do have addictionologists on staff.  I know someone who went there.

There is a site called ASAM (American Society of Addiction Medicine) where you can do a search for doctors in Massachusetts.   Be sure when you call anyone to tell them the drug that you are taking and make sure they are familiar with it.

I am still around Linnie Sue, I check this forum everyday although I don't always post.  I will be on vacation next week my husband and I are taking a trip to London, so you won't hear from me from December 7 through December 14th.

I am a little nervous about the trip.  I always like to have my pills with me when I travel and I am having some anxiety about that.  I also don't like to fly so I am having anxiety about that too.  

Please write back today if you are home and let me know how you are doing.  I will be checking the forum on and off today from work.  Also, email me if you would like at ***@****.  I will be checking that e-mail when I get home from work this evening.

Take Care

Golden Slipper

[The Golden Slipper]

Please keep posting to us.  You are not a loser you are however and addict and fiorinal is a nasty drug.  I latches on and won't let go.  I know because I have been there.

I don't see how you could lose your children if you are able to be open and honest about your addiction and say that you really need help.  If you are able to find a doc to help you get off these things he cannot tell anyone unless there is evidence you are a real danger to yourself or your children.

Do you think you could be honest with the doc who is prescribing the pills for you???  I had 6 doctors all prescribing them and they did not know about each other.  I finally went to one that I felt I could trust and spilled the beans.  He put me on a slow taper with the fioricet.  He did tell me however, that he was not an addiction doctor and that I should try to find one to help me which I finally did.

I don't know how you are getting your pills. You may have other resources for obtaining them.  Believe me nothing you say to me or anyone else here would be shocking.  We know all the tricks.  I abused this drug off and on for 20 years.

I also am curious as to how many you take in a day.  From you last post it sounds like to take atleast 1 per hour.  You do have to be very careful when withdrawing because you can have seizures if you are taking very high daily doses.  I am not a doctor and dont' want to preach I am only here for support.

Please keep posting to us and we will help you through this.

Take Care

Golden Slipper

[The Golden Slipper]

I just reread my last two posts and can't believe how horrible my spelling and grammer is.  I wish this forum had a spell checker.

I wanted you to know that you can also e-mail me at ***@**** if you would like.  I normally check this email in the early morning before work or at night after I get home.

Hang in there
Golden Slipper

[The Golden Slipper]

I hope you guys are both ok.  I haven't seen any recent posts from you.

Please write and let me know how you both are.

Golden Slipper

[The Golden Slipper]

I hope you guys are both ok.  I haven't seen any recent posts from you.

Please write and let me know how you both are.

Golden Slipper

[LinnieSue]

Hi, Did you get the e-mail I sent you yesterday? I hope so because if you didn't somebody is reading it. LOL
Not at my best today, But I am making slow progress. Please let me know if you received it.

                               Take care,
                                  LinnieSue

[The Golden Slipper]

Hello

Good to hear from you.  I have not checked my hotmail account.  Both my husband and I were out last night. This morning I did not have time to check.  (got up too late and was rushing around getting ready for work).

Did you receive a receipt that the message was read?? Maybe you got the receipt that said it was sent to the mailbox which just means it was received in our account.

I promise I will check tonight as soon as I get home. I will email you back around 6:00-6:30.  You said you are making progress.  Are you trying to taper on your own??  I know how difficult that can be.

If you are home today please write back on this forum.  I will check on and off during the day.  I promise to check and write back to you tonight.


Golden Slipper

[LinnieSue]

Hi, I am at work so I will post when I get home...........with all this snow I hope it's not to bad.  I am cutting down ....But I have a bad headache and I'm in such a bad mood I think people think I'm a witch. Oh,God.............well you can read my e-mail when you get home.

                                    Take Care,
                                        Linnie

[Connie51]

Hello  everyone,
This thread get's longer and longer. I can see there are a lot of us out there, my goodness! Can you imagine how many fioricet addicts there really are who do not know of the forum! Here we were, all suffering in silence, not knowing there were so many others.
Fiorinal Jr. Where are you? Let us know how you are doing, you have been a great inspiration.

Linnie, this is the first time I have had the time to post since you joined us.
You are taking the same amount that I always took. I do know what you are going through. Tapering can work with this particular drug so please hang in there. Going down 1 every two weeks is quite comfortable (NOT EASY) and can be done. Even one a week is safe. It is all according to your supply.
This forum is the begining and it is a good one. I see you are in contact with Golden Slipper. Wonderful girl, she too is a great inspiration.
I think I read that you have children. The need to keep up. What I can tell you is that I do not have any small children but I own 3 small shops and my need to keep up was constant also.
The hilarious part is Linnie, you are not "keeping Up" you are keeping yourself DOWN. While using it, we feel that is what is giving us a push each day. When you stop (and you will) you are going to find that you needed a push because all the fioicet has pulled you down so low. You only get a little lift or "BUZZ" from Fioricet for a short time. After that you head down.

I know that I will aways be a fioicet addict, even if one does not touch my lips but I can tell you that after the worst of it, you are going to be very surprised at your energy and that happy thoughts actually enter your head! Wow, it is great. Year after year, morning after morning, I would wake up with the despair of my addiction. That was no way to start a day. It only went downhill after that.

So, do not try and taper real fast, feel good about yourself everytime you go down one. I am sure Fiorinal Jr. will post, this is how he is doing it and is doing so well and was taking twice the amount you are.
If I can help in any way, please post. I am here.
Connie

[Twang51]

What a great forum!! I just stumbled onto it, trying to find a way to beat my Fioricet habit. It is obvious there are some very caring and compassionate people here.

I have cut my usage from about 15 per day to 8.  I did it over a 3 week period, which according to advice given here, was probably too fast.  

I would like to go from the 8/day I am at now to 0! Can anyone tell me a safe way to do this?  If you would rather contact me directly, my email is ***@****.

Thank you

[LinnieSue]

Hi, Connie nice to hear from you. Happy you are not taking those pills anymore. I wish I was there ....but sadly I'm not. I am really having a hard time now. It seems like tapering off of a drug your addicted to is so hard. I go down a pill....then back up.
I do have children but they are all grown and out of the house. I think you may have got me mixed up with (Falling). But I do take about 10 a day sometimes more. I did ten days of detox last year. I would go back if I knew of a place that didn't make you suffer so much. Really, I know I will be feeling lousy...But not near death as I felt in the place I was at. I am really scared.
I cried about an hour this morn. I have a vacation coming in about five weeks, I'm going to FL for a month. I don't want to ruin my children's Holidays. And I don't want to die.

Sorry for being so out of control......but I just don't know what to do.

                            Linnie

[Connie51]

Hi Linnie
Please do not despair. You will not die from the fioricet. Yes they are not good for your liver but the liver can put up with much and it will take more than the fioircet to hurt it even at 10 a day which is what I was up to. If you drink along with it, that could hit the liver much harder with the combination. The only reason I know this is because my liver enzymes were checked recently and were also checked last year and they are in the perfect range. I was so shocked.

You feel like you are dying because of the addiction. I know, I had been there for a long time. The stuff is no good, it destroys our feeling of well being. It is a drug.

Relax Linnie and try to cut down by only a couple pills while all is going on, the holidays, vacation etc. You will not find 10 to 8 devastating...if it is...it is only mental. You can keep your body fairly happy at this dosage. When you get back though it is time for serious thought. You will be down to 8 and doing it very slowly along with a med to help with the w/d and it will work, it really will. Yes you can have seizures but from all that I have learned, it is usually from VERY high dosages.
Enjoy your holiday and your children, try to stay calm and then when you return you have to put your heart and soul into getting off this drug. If you can drop down 2, even at that you are going to feel quite proud of yourself. Yes I know, your body tell's you....it is time. You make your choice of at which times you are going to skip one or only take 1 instead of 2.
They are not going to kill you, only make you feel like a pathetic drug addict. As long as you are not really doing something illegal to get them can this be something that puts you at risk till you are able to get rid of them for good in Jan.

I am here and I am wishing you all the luck in the world. Hang in there, forgive yourself and enjoy the good times ahead and then deal with this horrible drug. Only us who have had it cause so much pain can truly know how bad it is. It can be done Linnie and when you are ready, you WILL do it. It may take some time, but you are safe till Jan. so try and enjoy!
Connie

[RobynBanks]

Wow! This is quite a discussion board!...glad to have found it. After reading all of your posts, I realize that this 5 day long migraine(one vein on the side of my head throbs from wake till sleep, day after day) i have is a rebound headache from stopping the firinol w codeine cold turkey. I had been taking about 6/day for months. I find 5mg diazepam help a little bit in the evening with the edgy, bitchiness and the headache. Its a benzo but I'm very experienced with it and know can take it temporarily without abusing it. As for the migraine/rebound h/a....any suggestions?...I have some Tylenol3s but  will only take a couple if absolutely necessary. I don't want to draw this out any longer. Can anyone tell me- How long does this rebound headache last??????. As i said, its continuous...the only time it stops is when i'm sleeping.
Thanks for sharing all your stories and Luck to all.

[Rex1]

Have you tried plain old excedrin? This _always_ gets rid of my headaches, though they are not migraines.

Rex

[FiorinalJR]

Hi, I'm still here.  Looks like we have some new people too, and that's great!  I have seen comments that were MY thoughts when I first found this forum - that's the amazement at finding others with the same problem and wondering how many more are out there suffering but don't know about this site and don't know how to get help.

Sorry I was "away" for a couple of weeks, but I had the flu and it developed into pneumonia.  I literally did not even turn on my PC or anything - I was in bed for ten days.  Doing much better now.

My doc had tapered me down to 7 Fioricets, and had me stay there while I was sick.  Now, I stay there for another 10 days then I go down to 6. Going from 8 to 7 was not too bad, and I am hoping that down to 6 will be okay as well.  I still take the Neurontin (800 mg 3x/day).  It reallly helps - I don't believe I could do this without it, and no side effects.

Connie, sounds like you are doing well!  And, Golden Slipper - you are doing okay, too?  I sure hope so!

Linnie, and some of the other newer "members" ..... Welcome!  Glad you found this site, and hope it helps.  It sounds like some of you are having a really hard time, and really despairing.  Look - you never asked to get hooked on this stuff!  Some damned doctor who didn't know better or didn't care - but should have - gave you some Fioricet or Fiorinal or Esgic, maybe even with codeine, then gave you more and more, and BANG - you got hooked.  You know, you can get hooked on Butalbital (the barbituate in these drugs) after just several doses, or after just a week of taking it?

Most docs know how to prescribe this stuff, but they don't warn you of the danger, and they don't know how to help if you do get hooked.  And they will not help you.  They just cut you off and force you to find another doctor, or more than one.  They all ought to be sued!

I have been taking Fioricet, etc. for about 25 years!  Some with codeine, some plain.  An orthopedic surgeon got me hooked on these years ago, kept prescribing for about 7 years, then cut me off.  Of course I found other docs.  Up until about 4 months ago, I was taking about 18 to 20 pills per day (7 of them with codeine).  I got into some legal trouble (yep, wrote some of my own scripts and got caught) and cut back from the 20 a day to about 12 over 6 weeks.

Meanwhile, I found a great new doctor - a neurologist who specializes in headaches and in addiction/drug overuse.  She put me on an outpatient "program" to taper down the rest of the way, by about 1 pill every two weeks or so.  She also put me on Neurontin (works great for me - calms the jitters without making you feel dopey and helps dull the h/ache pain), and I also have Amerge - kind of like Imitrex for real migraines.  This doc is great - she promised to never leave me hanging, so long as I followed her program, and that I only saw her.  I should be totally off this stuff by March or sooner.

Guys/Gals: I have learned a lot over the years about this stuff, and especially over the past few months.  I am no doctor, but I'll bet that I know more about this stuff than 99% of doctors.  I am a business professional with a real high stress job, I have a wife and 2 children.  None of my friends or business associates know about my addiction.  My family didn't until I told them a few months ago.

Please know this about Fioricet, etc........

- It causes more of your headaches than it "fixes"
- Butalbital stays in your bloodstream for 30 to 60 days.  In most cases, 10 or even 28 days in detox doesn't work.  They put you thru hell and let you out but you are still not even physically detoxed!  There are exceptions, as with Connie51.
- The best way to get off this stuff is a slow taper, cutting down by one pill every week or two.  You may need something else to help, depending on how much you have been taking,and for how long.
- You should have a good neurologist/addiction specialist helping you.  They are hard to find, but they are out there
- You WILL have a nasty headache while tapering.  The headache you get when tapering is a REBOUND HEADACHE, not a migraine.  It is a constant headaches that starts when you wake up and stays with you until you finally go to bed and get to sleep.  It IS an awful headaches, but it does taper off after a few weeks, and eventually stops.
- The worst thing you can do for a rebound headache is take a Foricet - it may help some, but then the rebound comes back even worse.  That's how this damned stuff gets you hooked!

Anyone reading this forum should STOP beating themselves up, and should not feel guilty about your dirty little secret.  The fact that you are here shows that you want help.  Remember, some "medical professional" got you hooked.  And if they are like most, they weren't there to help you once you were hooked.  They are all too worried about their medical licenses to be concerned about you.

Please, stay with this forum and let us know how you are doing.  Find a good doc, be honest with him/her, and start weaning off this stuff. WE CAN DO IT!!!!!

Good health and happy thought to all,

JR

[RobynBanks]

What about taking a 15mg codeine for the rebound headaches?? I have a 1 yr old and a 2 yr old to care for and i'm having trouble coping with this continuous h/a. Do you think it would make it worse?..It doesn't have the caffeine or the barbituate. Its been almost a week.Thanks for all your help.

[LinnieSue]

Hi, I'm still here doing pretty much the same. Thanks Connie for the kind words. I think sometimes I want an overnight cure to this addition and then put it all behind me. I know that's not going to happen.
Happy to here from you FioricetJR.......Sorry you were sick. But I'm glad your okay now. Your steady progress is very encouraging.
I will post again soon.

                                 Linnie

[FiorinalJR]

Robyn, taking the codeine is really only a bandaid, and may not help in the long run.  A side effect of codeine is headacehs!  My doc had me try Advil Migraine (2 pills) for the rebound headache.  It help a lot.  Some people get relief from Excedrin Migraine.

If you take anything that is a narcotic or barbiturate, it may seem like it helps, but that is an illusion.  You will still get a rebound headache.  The only way off od this stuff is to try and deal with the rebound h/aches with over the counter meds.  They won't totally elinminate the h/aches, but they will help.

Good luck to all!

[RobynBanks]

OK JR, i get it now-thank you .I will try the Advil Migraine. How long does the rebound h/a  last though?...i mean after you stop everything snd just take Advil??? THANKS!

[The Golden Slipper]

Hello to everyone and I especially want to welcome all the new people who have posted this past week.  I have been away in London all last week so haven't been online.

I had a nice vacation but was haunted by cravings off and on for fioricet. I expected it because it was my first time traveling without them. One thing I did notice though is that I was much more alert and really noticed everything I saw.  In the past I was always in such a fog from the drug.  The funny thing is you don't realize what a fog you were in until you stop taking the stuff.

To the new people who posted last week I want to say welcome and you can beat this thing!!  Linnie, I am sorry to hear that you are having such a tough time.  Have you had any luck finding a local addictionologist???

JR - Sorry to hear you have been sick and hope you are on the mend.  Connie - You really sound like you are doing well I'm sure you must be very busy right now with Christmas and your shops.

Well, I am at work so have to go but please newcomers keep posting.  There is alot of support here.


Take Care
Golden Slipper

[FiorinalJR]

Golden Slipper, glad you had a good time in London.  Sounds like you're doing well.  Are you completely OFF Fioricet now?

RobynBanks - No, I was not suggesting totally stopping F/cet unless you slready have.  The best and safest way isa slow taper off of it.

But, for the rebound headaches, Advil Migraine or Excedrin work pretty well.  You will still have the rebound headaches for a while.  I have been tapering for two months, and still wake up with rebound h/aches and have them almost all day.  The Advil helps, but does not totally eliminate them.

We just have to bear with them until they go away.  Remember, the reason we get hooked on Fioricet is really the rebound headaches!  When we try to stop taking the drug, we get bad headaches.  They seem like migraines so we take more Fioricet, it helps for a while, but then the headache comes back.  It becomes a vicious cycle.

The only way the break the cycle is to taper off and handle the rebounds with over the counter meds.

Good luck to all and keep posting!

[FiorinalJR]

Well hey, Golden Slipper, Connie 51, Linnie - is anybody around?  Just wondering how everyone is doing.  I guess with the holiday season everyone is busy.  Please do a short post when you have a chance, and just say "Hi".!!!!

Looking forward to hearing from you.

[LinnieSue]

Hi, I'm at work so just a quick hi.............I am pretty much the same. My appt. is Feb.11 so I will go on vacation and deal with getting off the pills when I return. I'm leaving Jan8th and will be back Feb2.

                      Happy Holidays
                              Linnie

[The Golden Slipper]

I am still around and doing ok.  I am not feeling that great today.  I think I may have a touch of some kind of stomach flu.  Alot of people I work with have had it and my husband has also been sick.

I am still having cravings for fioricet.  They seem to come and go with the worst time being first thing in the morning. I try to tell myself just deal with today - just get one more day under your belt.

I think this is a tough time of year people associate it with partying and feeling good.  For me feeling good means being high on fioricet.

I have to remember that "this too shall pass" and before you know it we will be into the New Year.

Linne, I am so glad you appt. is coming up.  It will be here before you know it.  Please e-mail me if you get a chance.

JR - Glad to hear you are still doing well.

Happy Holidays to everyone

Golden Slipper

[Connie51]

Happy Holidays Everyone

Glad you had a great trip to London Golden Slipper! Yes, it does take a long long time for those cravings to pass. Fiorinal Jr. knows waht he is talking about!
Hello to you Fiorinal Jr.
Linnie, it looks like you have a plan. That is great. Enjoy your vacation and try to put it out of your mind. You will make it. It is hard work, but if you are prepared you will make it. Think of it as something to look forward to actually and then prepare to go for it.

Yes it is hard over the holidays isn't it G.S.? My problem is that extra boost. It did not last long but at least it was there for a few moments.
Eventually all of our bodies will return to normal. What ever that is....I do not remember. The boost...the feeling of well being....the body will produce these feelings on it's own. It has forgotten because the drug has done it for so long!

Here's to wishing us all Good Luck and a very Merry Christmas!
Love to you all
Connie51

[FiorinalJR]

Happy Holidays - great to hear from you all!  Sounds like everyone is doing okay, even with some difficulty.  GS, I found a great pick me up for that awful feeling when you wake up in the morning.  Take two Alka Seltzers (the regular kind with aspirin in it).  The fizz makes the aspirin get into your system really fast, and it doesn't upset your stomach.

Try it - it works great for me, and it is not addictive and does not cause rebound headaches.

I hope eveyone has a great holiday and some time off.  We can make it thru without needing extra Fioricet - really!  We will feel better, and we'll feel better about ourselves.

Keep that CAN DO attitude - we'll beat this together!

Best,   JR

[Kat49]

Hi to everyone on this forum!  I am new to all of you, but have been reading everything since Sept.  I have been addicted to fiorinal since 1985 - actually taking it responsibly, but becoming addicted since 1995.  I'm 49 and a mother of two grown boys who have no idea and neither does my wonderful husband.  I can hardly tell my very best girlfriend because she has taken fiorinal/fioricet for 10 yrs. responsibly and can't fathom how you'd take it just to get a "buzz".  I have gone cold turkey 3 times.  I have to say, the first time was going through the gates of hell!  I had hallucinations that I suppose you have if you do LSD!  I vomited so severely that I broke a blood vessel in my eye!  Shook for days until I couldn't stand it anymore and took "just one" to help me.  Everyone thought I had a bad stomach flu that hit our area.  Anyway, that was coming off of an 8 - 10 pill/day habit.  Then, 4 mon. later I really tried to stop by tapering and still violently vomited and couldn't sleep for days - but that only lasted less than a week.  I went back to work (high stress) and tried over the counter stuff to no avail and just caved in again.  This time (1 yr. later) I literally couldn't get anymore and HAD to quit, plus I was emotionally ready.  I got some suppositories for vomiting and they helped tremendously and the nervousness stopped after a few uneventful days.  I was clean and NO HEADACHES for over 3 weeks and just last Wed. I had a horrendous day with knots in my neck and down my back.  I have a friend at work with some and asked her for 2 and took them 4hrs. apart and the pain melted away and never went into migraine (which ALWAYS happens).  I take Imitrex and Amerge for that.  My insurance company dictates how many migraines I can have per month so they only cover 9 pills!  That's why the fiorinal came into play!  THey usually abort one if taken early.  I haven't taken any since Wed., but I never say never if you know what I mean.  The reason I'm joining this forum is because I'm so incredibly IMPRESSED how intelligent and compassionate all of you are!!!!! I could become friends with any one of you.  Compared to the narcotics addicts - they bicker and fight and it's pretty intense in that forum!  I also feel that I have alot in common with several of you - almost 50, female,kids, great husband, etc.  Plus, the endless doctors and pharmacies I've gone through and the humiliation when a pharmacist "lies" and says your insurance won't cover it now or "we're out of it until next week" and you know someone who just got a script filled!  My doctor would have personally gone in there and ringed his neck since HE wrote the damned script!  But, I've never fessed up to him - he's my next door neighbor and the neurologist/addictionologist lives across the street!  I live in a close-knit community in PA outside of Phila. and the nurses talk, etc.  Well, enough of my backround.  I'll be watching and talking to you.  Happy Holidays to all of you great enlightening people!

[Hinkster]

Kat...you will have to post this at the top or no one will see
it down here. I just happened to scroll down or I would have missed it myself. Don't be afraid of hyjacking a thread it's
done all the time.
Tom

[FiorinalJR]

Kat, glad that after reading this forum for a while, you decided to post.  You're right - there are a lot of people just like you.  I'm male, almost 50, been using Fioricet for about 20 or so years, etc.  I have been happily maried for 30 years and have two children - both out of college now.  I have a good job, although it's high stress, and have my own home in an executive neighborhood, etc.

I thought I was taking Fioricet (and Fiorinal #3) responsibly too.  Even though I was going to multiple docs and taking 18 to 20 pills per day (and functioning just fine somhow), I told myself that I "just needed" that many to control my headaches.

Nobody knew about my problem, not my wife or kids or brothers, sisters, boss, co-workers - nobody.  I finally had to stop, so I told my primary care doc, my wife and immediate family.  My doc hooked me up with a great addictionologist/neurologist - and that doc started weaning me down by 1 pill every 2 weeks.  That started in August.  Now I'm down to 7 per day, and about to go to 6.

Although I have god-awful rebound/withdrawal headaches - all day, every day, overall I feel better than I have in years.  The doc has me taking Neurontin, which prevents most migraines and also helps with the withdrawal; I also have Amerge for when a migraine does break through.

I know this is my last hope.  The doc is working with me and understands that I might still have a bad day or two - but with my going to one doc who only prescribes 10 days worth at a time, I find that I am successfully tapering off this stuff.  I know that I have a 10 day supply, and if I take "extras" on any given day, I will be short later on - so I can't cheat.

Like you, I don't understand anyone taking this stuff for kicks.  I have never gotten high on Fioricet, no matter how many I took.  It just made/makes me feel normal.  I took it for headaches, but never realized that the more you take the more you need, because it actualy CAUSES the rebound headaches!  That's how it gets you hooked.

I honestly believe that anyone who takes Fioricet more than a couple of days per month is to some extent, hooked.  That may be hard to believe, but this stuf is realy evil.  The thing is, that for tension or migraine headaches, it works SO well.  It was designed to work on these headaches - there is Tylenol for the pain, caffeine to enhance the effect, and Butalbital to relax the muscles in your head and neck.  The perfect relief.  The problem is the rebound headache that comes later, which many think is a migraine, so they take more - and the cycle starts.  I wish I had never taken my first one.

Anyway, Kat and everyone - sorry to be so wordy.  But please be careful - don't use the holidays as an excuse to take more.  Try to relax, close your eyes and breathe deeply for a few minutes.  If you take this stuff daily, try to cut down by one a day if you can.  You will feel bettter about yourself.  If you can't do it, don't beat yourself up.  Get some help from a good addictionologist.  Good luck to all.  You are NOT alone!

Best,  JR

Happy holidays to all.

[The Golden Slipper]

Hello and welcome to our little site for fioricet/fiorinal addicts. Your story sounds very similar to mine.  I was prescribed this drug for migraines back in 1985 before they came out with all of the new migraine drugs they have today.

I am currently off the drug and have been for a few weeks.  I am also, like JR, taking neurontin and find it has helped with the intense anxiety I feel when trying to get off this stuff.  It also helps with the horrible insomnia.

I am still suffering with rebound headaches and do take Imitrex for my actual migraines which I suffer from a few times a month.I take excedrin and OTC medications to try to help with the rebounds.

I'm sure you have already read my earlier posts which tell my story.  Just wanted to welcome you and to encourage you to keep posting.  

Happy Holidays!!

Golden Slipper

[Kat49]

I've really been reading your "story" and yes, we do sound an awful like we're in the same boat.  When I was originally prescribed this drug, I had been nearly bedridden with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and a severe case of TMJ (it's a jaw problem that causes severe headaches) for over 6 weeks!  Plus, I had a 3yr. old boy and a 7 yr. old boy to take care of!  My dentist (the TMJ doctor) actually gave me injections of muscle relaxer in the muscles of my neck and shoulders and sent me to physical therapy 4 days a week with deep muscle heat treatments, etc.  NOTHING WORKED!  Then my family doc prescribed Fiorinal and MY GOD the pain subsided and I took another one in 2 hrs. and it was gone!  I can remember vividly that hot July day because I felt I finally had myself back.  I took them as needed for years then I don't know how I started to abuse them, but I believe it was when I went back to work parttime and I did feel tension building up in my neck and was terrified I'd end up like before: on the bed/couch crying and writhing in severe pain.  I had the TMJ surgically fixed and the Chronic Fatigue beaten within 1 yr. The one thing that I got scared about was my legs started showing little bruises everywhere and I didn't recall even bumping anything.  I read in a doctor's PDR that butalbital ABUSE will screw your blood platelets up to such a dangerous situation that your veins literally "leak" and so the bruises appear!  Plus, a pharmacist told me something goes fatally wrong with your kidneys.  I don't know the term - it's something really rare and complicated-sounding.  I would like to know more about this neurontin that's mentioned throughout this thread.  I don't take the fiorinal anymore although I have 100 in my drawer.  I don't have too much anxiety other than the normal **** this time of year and the economy and our business.  But, as far as "craving" this drug, no I don't.  I think sometimes the only way to quit is cold turkey when the script runs out and you can't possibly obtain more.  I never had a seizure, but I think you have to be taking a truckload of it constantly to be at risk.  But, everyone's different so who knows?  Hope everybody has a safe holiday and thanks for listening.  Kat

[LinnieSue]

Hi Kat........I was reading your post and was thinking maybe the bruising you mentioned could be the asprin in fiorinol. It has happen to me many times. That's why I take fioricet. But I can't always get fioricet so I alternate.
I am Fifty and been taking these pills for close to twenty years.
I have tried to stop many times. I was in detox and rehab in 1986
and detox again just last year. It's been very hard. I do have an appt. with a Dr. in Feb. I try to taper but it's like a seesaw. I have nerurontin 100mg I got last year from the detox I was at. Well, I never took them but I will see what the Dr. has to say. I want to do this right this time.
I am so happy for you GS.......I can't believe it's only been a few weeks. I know it can't be easy....God I know. But you even made it through vacation. I think that's great.
Connie and FiorinalJR are doing good as well. I'm so happy for all of you.
                              Linnie

[Kat49]

Yeah, I thought it was the aspirin, too, but a surgeon told me that it is the butalbital that causes abnormally low blood platelet counts to the point of "bleeding out".  That's if you abuse it like me.  Every day.  Everytime I've quit cold turkey, the bruise-like spots started to immediately disappear!  And the reason I know for a fact it was fiorinal is because it happened on fioricet, too.  That's when I took about 8/day and on stressful workdays maybe 10 but no more because I used to get nauseated.  Fioricet actually makes me sick.  So does Excedrin.  I take pure Bayer aspirin many times a day (no bruising) and there's another analgesic that is FANTASTIC!  It's called PainAid.  It's only obtained through OSHA at our company and everyone (and I mean everyone) cleans out the medicine cabinet of that stuff by Friday.  You can't buy it anywhere, but it has aspirin, tylenol, caffeine and 152mg. of salicylamide.  It works but doesn't take the tightness away like good ole Fiorinal!  There are more and more people at work getting scripts for fiorinal since I've given them some of mine when they are really suffering and I can't stand to see people suffer needlessly.  That's probably why my son is in medschool at UCLA to become a neuropsychiatrist.  If I told him of my problem, he'd faint!  His best friend's mom was hooked on fiorinal (her husband is a famous cardiologist) and he was disgusted with her beyond words. And so was her son.  The husband looked the other way, but brought home bags of fiorinal to get rid of her migraines.  Sad situation.  There are alot of us, believe me.  Glad to have talked to you.  Hope things improve for you.  We'll talk again.  Happy Holidays to all - Kat