help depressed

[bigdrawz]

I am a 40 year old male that needs an answer to a question.   after taking hydrocodone for about 2 years heavily I decided to quit cold turkey.I didnt have any physical withdrawl symptoms but man I have been severly depressed going on 8 months now.I havent had any kind of pain pill whatsoever. I cry all the time over nothing .I used to not be emotional at all, now its like I turned in to a woman.Im scared of the dark,Ihave to sleep with some kind of light on.Shouldnt I be over this addiction by now or is this long term damage of my abuse.this emotional rollercoaster is tearing me apart! any information would be helpful I need to know if the drug did this to me, or am I going thru somthing else. THANKS TRACY

[G'Kar]

bigdrawz:

I have been through he withdrawal a few times.  I have been using Tylenol & Codeine #3s for about 4 ½ years.  My personnel experience is that when I quit, which by the way was always cold turkey, I got the physical withdrawal symptoms.  I also felt just like you described.  I was moping around the house, had zero motivation, and would cry for no apparent reason at all.  It was unnerving to me, I felt like a different person.  Everything was more emotionally intense to me.  Watching depressing movies would cause me to ball!!  I know there are the physical / chemical reasons such as endorphin levels and other brain chemistry, but simply put, I think this poison that we all use here dulls the senses.  Once it is removed, everything comes back, seemingly more intense.  I am concerned that this has been happening to you for so long.  Though I have not been totally successful in quitting, I did feel a leveling off of these emotional symptoms after about a week.  8 months seems a bit long.  You might want to check with your doctor and ask him about options that could include selective seratonin reuptake inhibitors like Paxil or maybe Prozac.  My wife takes Paxil and swears by it.  Did you have any tendencies for this type of emotional behavior prior to your addiction?  Keep in mind - the most important thing is that you did it – you quit!!  Be proud of that.

On a side note:  I have been trying to post here for a while.  It is difficulty to post a question.  I don't want to step on bigdrawz post but I have gotten a lot of inspiration from this forum in the past.  I posted a while back and got a lot of support from those here.  At my last post I was at about 60 hours into my first attempt at quitting.  Much to my surprise, I was feeling better and I BLEW IT!!  

I went right back to it as if I never stopped.  I take between 10 and 14 Tylenol and Codeine #3s once a day.  I can’t believe I screwed this up; I am soooo disappointed in myself.  Now on top of that, I have the potential for an even bigger problem (At least from what I read here).  I acquired some Oxycontins.  I finished off quite a few 40mg tablets, about 4 to 5 a day.  What’s even worse is that now my wife is starting to play with this ****.  I am responsible for bringing this stuff into the house, so I am responsible for getting it out.  I will not let this take hold of her!!  I am such a fool, I should have known better.  She has stopped and felt the withdrawal; I am starting to feel it now.  She will be abler to stay quit.  I hope I can be as strong.  I will be working out extra at the gym, and maybe even trying that amino acid mix mentioned here.  I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who posts here.  It helps me, and I’m sure everyone else, to know that we are not alone.  Keep those here in your prayers.  And good luck to you bigdrawz.


G’Kar

[jule1]

Tracy, I would venture to say that about 95% of us on this forum have experienced depression.  PLEASE read into the archives I know there is a lot in there to help with your depression.  You may need some help with a SSRI such as Prozac or Zoloft.  Congratulations on your 8 months that is amazing and also amazing that you did not have the traditional withdrawls.

WW - Are you a mind reader over the computer or do you have a physic connection to me?  The things you wrote to me were exactly what I needed to hear I was hoping I had helped someone here but really wondering if I had I was feeling very sorry for myself and very down on myself and what you wrote really helped.
Thank you so much and your stories are so refreshing.  Please remember how much you have helped so many people and if you helped while you were on  hydro's well so be it, it happened, you did your job and hurt no one.  I am amazed that you were able to do your job well while you were hooked!!! But then again you are an amazing goddess!! Love to you from me!!!

Cindi - I wish I had more to say to you.  I know a little how you feel because we lost my father in law very suddenly 2 years ago and my husband still picks up the phone to call him.  I just wanted you to know that you were the one who really helped me whenI came to this forum.  You wre the one who gave me the strength to post the first time and I always knew I could get a laugh from you.  I just feel like crying knowing how much pain you are in.  I know you are a very special person and hopefully your friends here including me will be able to help you some how in some way without any judgement.  BIG HUGS, Jules

[Francoise]

I've been depressed a few times in my life, and my heart hurts for you. However, there may be good news coming:

First - I was on a maintenance dose of oxycontin, 100 milligrams twice a day. However, I also took an unprescribed extra 20 mg or so for breakthrough pain (legal prescription for real pain. Fell 25 feet from a tree and broke LOTS of things). I was depressed just as you describe for just about 8 months. Then one day my body began to burn all over; cramps were killing me; sweating like a goat. It was awful. Next morning I got up, took my regular dose and all has been fine ever since. And I DON'T take any extra for any reason. If there's breakthrough pain, then damnit, I'll just have to hurt. Anyway, you may be near the end of the depression.

Second - Find Thomas recipe for detox. Look at all his posts. Look at mine, too, since I repeated it several times for others. One caveat. You MUST get supplements you can trust to have the correct amount of stuff. I just went to a shrink and he said that some of these things contain just ten per cent of the amount of stuff they're supposed to have.

Third - Go to a psychiatrist (NOT a psychologist). See if you can get some Effexor and some Klonopin. The one mg klonopin is best. in fact, get a prescription for the generic form, something like clonazepam it's way cheaper. One milligram of this is like ten of valium. But be careful taking benzodiazapenes. And don't take any Xanax. Stuff is dangerous. Sudden cessation of these things can cause seizures of the potentially fatal sort.

Hope this helps. If you have to pay for the psych yourself, do it. Find a way. There is an end to the depression you're suffering. I was crying everyday for eight months and then one day it was gone. I'll never force myself through that again. I know it won't do you any good, but my thoughts and feelings and heart are all with you. And I'll think about you every day until you write again and say you're out of the woods.

Francois

[cindi]

JBear,,,,thank you so much for your kind words,,,,We all have hard days and even harder nights...when it is quiet and everyone is asleep is when my thoughts stray.....I hate thinking,  I hate feeling depressed, and I hate this heartwrenching ache I have,,,,,to be honest with you ,,,,,I have been so down that I have not been even wanting to come here and share my feelings with anyone....and then today and yesterday i was finally able to just start typing,,and I had forgotten how good it felt to go to a place where everyone is so kind, caring and supportive..Thomas, JB, Angelica, Brighty and spook helped me get through my darkest hour almost 9  months ago, and for that I will be forever grateful,,,,and along the way I have found the rest of you guys that just seem to pull me out of the **** I can easily get myself into.....so to my old friends and my new friends.....I love and adore you all,,,,and I'm glad you feel I was of some help to you....it makes me feel good when i can extend a hand......here is a big hug to all of u....
((((((HUG)))))))       love to all   cin

[Shea]

First I am sorry for story on serotonin. I was going to just direst you to this site but it is hard to get into. And I know you all want to kick my ass for it being so long. I'm sorry. But I was hoping Thomas and WW and anyone could take a look at this and let me now what you think. I have been using Thomas Recipe and it has been wonderful. I wish there was a way i could express my thanks to him and all of you.  Would you give me some feedback on this PLEASE.

Shea

SEROTONIN - THE KEY TO THE PSYCHADELIC EXPERIENCE:

The brain chemical these drugs increase, serotonin, is the same brain chemical that LSD, PCP and other psychedelic drugs mimic in order to produce their hallucinogenic effects ". . . psychedelic agents mimic the effects of serotonin." And remember that psychedelic agents are "a class of compounds with no demonstrated therapeutic use, a history of extensive abuse, and the ability to provoke psychosis. Yet many brain researchers value the psychedelic agents above any of the other psychoactive drugs" because "the research into psychedelic drugs has already enriched our understanding of how the brain regulates behavior." (Dr. Solomon Snyder, DRUGS AND THE BRAIN) Just how much will these brain researchers learn from our experience with these drugs designed to specifically increase serotonin, the same brain chemical the psychedelic agents mimic to produce their effects?

We know that these drugs interfere with serotonin metabolism (demonstrated by levels of the serotonin metabolite 5HIAA). It is not serotonin that is low in these disorders, it is this by product 5HIAA, which indicates the level of serotonin metabolism, that is low in depression, suicide, etc. Yet as serotonin (5HT) goes up serotonin metabolism (5HIAA) generally comes down. We already have studies demonstrating at what percentage each of these drugs increase 5HT and decrease 5HIAA. Now learn the results first of elevated levels of serotonin (5HT) and secondly the results of decreased levels of serotonin metabolism (5HIAA):

Elevated 5HT (serotonin) levels:
#1 schizophrenia, psychosis, mania, etc.
#2 mood disorders (depression, anxiety, etc.)
#3 organic brain disease - especially mental retardation at a greater incident rate in children
#4 autism (a self-centered or self-focused mental state with no basis in reality)
#5 Alzheimer's disease
#6 old age
#7 anorexia
#8 constriction of the blood vessels
#9 blood clotting
#10 constriction of bronchials and other physical effects

Lower 5HIAA (serotonin metabolism) levels:
#1 suicide (especially violent suicide)
#2 arson
#3 violent crime
#4 insomnia
#5 depression
#6 alcohol abuse
#7 impulsive acts with no concern for punishment
#8 reckless driving
#9 dependence upon various substances
#10 bulimia
#11 multiple suicide attempts
#12 hostility and more contact with police
#13 exhibitionism
#14 arguments with spouses, friends and relatives
#15 obsessive compulsive behavior
#16 impaired employment due to hostility, etc.

All are exactly what patients and their families have continued to report to be their experience on these drugs since Prozac was introduced! These individuals are frantically searching for answers while this research sits right under our noses. Although this is a totally different picture than pharmaceutical marketing departments would have us believe, marketing claims and reality rarely have much in common.

Researchers tell us that five, ten or twenty years later it is not uncommon to find we have another thalidomide on our hands. Raising 5HT (serotonin) and lowering 5HIAA (serotonin metabolism) in such a high number of people can produce very serious, extensive and long term problems for all of society. Even more frightening for the future of our society is the rapidly rising widespread accepted practice of prescribing these drugs to small children and adolescents. This crucial medical research must be addressed openly, without delay, rather than remain buried in seldom read medical research documents as has been the case in the past with other mind-altering medications, once thought to be safe, which were subsequently prohibited by law.

Some information included in the book (424 pgs):
...serious long-term adverse physical and psychiatric side effects produced by elevated levels of serotonin ...reported after effects: withdrawal, memory loss, sleep disorders, panic and anxiety attacks (adrenalin rushes), impaired concentration, bi-polar, diabetes, MS symptoms, mania, chronic fatigue, severe rebound depression, symptoms of Cushings Syndrome - moon face, looking or feeling pregnant, inability to handle stress, mood swings, etc.
...learn the cause of depression, manic-depression, panic, anxiety, OCD, psychosis, schizophrenia, etc.- understand mental illness as never before. ...why False Memory Syndrome is so often being induced by these drugs and breaking up relationships ...reports of compulsions for alcohol, sweets, NutraSweet sweetened drinks, spending and sex

[Witchywoman]

Hi Shea,
That was quite an article about seratonin!
Ever since the ssri's came out, there has been some negative press about it, with some alarming stories.  It is critical to check the sources that the alarmist stories come from, as most of the ones that I've seen have come from substandard research at best.

I've been working around the ssri's (prozac etc) in Psychiatry clinics for 15 years. I have never seen these meds, when taken appropriately for a carefully diagnosed condition, do any harm. I have seen them save lives, and help. I have taken them myself and they've helped.  There are definate exclusions that any prescribing Psychiatrist knows about. You don't usually want to give an ssri to someone with bipolar disorder, as the elevated seratonin can trigger a manic episode.

As far as elevated seratonin mimicing an acid trip...well, I've done a lot of acid in my time, and there is no similarity at all, from my personal experience.

I think that for people who have messed up brain chemistry due to long term narcotic use do need some help getting it regulated to normal again, whether that be meds, supplements, or nutrition and excercise.  

Just my two cents..

WW

[mickytim]

Bigdrawz, welcome, I hope that today your feeling better.  I, along with all our friends here experiance depression, each on different levels, but the results are what we are here talking to each other for SUPPORT.

You have come through a tough road going cold turkey, You should be proud of yourself, look at the strength you had to do that, we are proud of ya!!  You might want to see a Doc just to understand about how your body reacted to the meds and how it affected you and then try some depression meds, you will find that you will feel better.  It may take a while to adjust to the meds but you already have the drive to beat this thing, a positive attitude is the most important thing right now and it sounds like you have one, go get um dude!

G'Kar, Welcome to you to! Please feel free to read some of past posts. You will learn that you are not alone but truly among people who live with this shame daily. I am one of them! As I said to bigdrawz you have already gone through the hard part, that's the decision to change and you started to change, we'll your body also is changing.  

We are here to try and make it easier for you and everyone else to understand you are not alone, not even one minute of one day, and you can always, always find someone here who can share there stories, and there feelings with you. Don't be afraid to let it out, we will understand and have done the same, asked for help!

strength and power to all

peace
mickytim

[jule1]

Cindi, I have been thinking about you all day.  One thing that really seemed to make sense when my FIL died was someone told us that you have a right to be mad, you have a right to be depressed it is NOT fair that she should be taken away from you and your life will never be the same.  I hate when people say time will heal it does not heal it just opens your mind a little more to the good things in your life.  I hope you are not feeling guilty about being mad.  I am sure you are mad at god, your mom for leaving and other things that contributed to her death.  I truly hope your children and husband are of comfort to you along with all your friends here.  It is amazing how this forum comes along at the right time in so many peoples lives.  And for what it is worth again I think you are a truly special person who has helped many.  Hope you are having a day with happiness!!  Love, Jules

[cindi]

Thank you for your kindness..my family is my support and yes I am angry   and no I don't feel guilty about being angry   i have a ton of feelings.....again  thank you for understanding where I'm at....love cin

[skipper]

intresting stuff about serotonin etc. as far as putting the new
anti-depresents...the jury is still out on them. Before i leap on
any kind of band waggon, chemical or other wise, i think it is
important to understand how they work. the beter living thru chem-
estry approach of the pharm. industry is at least in part to blame
for our societys attitude & problems with drugs....

ya want to here about something for junkys?
a tested and proven method used in Great Britan from the late 50s
and early 60s. this method is used for detoxing narcotics addicts. the only practitioner to use this method was a Dr. Dent. it involves mixxing equal parts of morphine and a little known drug called apamorphine. as the morphine is reduced, the apamorphine is increased. at the end of detox the addict is being injected with pure apamorphine. the only clinical use of apamorphine in the US is to induce vomitting. this is done with a huge dose of apamorphine. in smaller doses apamorphine acts like a metabolic reseter. the action of apamorphine occurs mostly in the hypothalimus (spelling), the metabolic big daddy that is the oldest region of a mammals brain, Intresting stuff, if a person is intrested, they can consult the british journal of addiction.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[mickytim]

Shea outstanding research, between you and WW ( HI WW )I think you have both continually give us the bad and the good about supplaments, and thier effects , so that we can make informed decsions if we chose to take them.  Excellant job the both of you!

WW, I am an experiment from the 70's starting with sinaqon/dioxapen ( spelling is horrible I know ) and all the other crazy anti-depressants, including lithium etc, etc, and now taking prozac for over 10 years ( thank God!!). Prozac is the only thing that works well for me, but everyone has their fav's, my sister zoloft, friend Paxil, other friend amitriptoline, We are walking drug cabinets.

Stay strong WW and everyone, I'm with ya!

strength an power to you all

peace mickytim

[Thomas]

thanks for the serotonin info. I think I'll try that 5HTP before they ban it and check out the serotonin expereince.

Thomas

[Witchywoman]

I credit the 5 HTP for the fact that I am not in a post withdrawal depression. I'm actually pretty happy these days. I've been on the 5 HTP for a week and a half now, and I was in a deep depression before I took it. I know my seratonin levels must have been way off.

I trust the 5 HTP more than the ssri's, because it doesn't mess with brain receptor sights. My understanding is that many of the side effects of the ssri drugs have to do with the blocking of the seratonin receptor sites, not just the increased seratonin level. I've not had any of the side effects that I had when I was on prozac. I take 100mgs once a day. The research was done on doses as high as 300mgs a day, split into three doses.

Thomas, fortunately 5 HTP can't be patented (they tried that when it was first discovered) and so far no one in the FDA can find anything about it that is remotely harmful, so it won't get banned in the very near future...but, since the drug companies don't want the competition, I'm sure an effort to ban or regulate it will increase.

The best source I've found for it is :
http://www.antiaging-systems.com/home1.htm  
They sell the enteric coated pills and are very high quality.
This site also has excellent original research articles about it, as well as many other supplements.

WW

[katie r]

Well folks. I couldn't do it. I just can't stand myself when I'm not high. I'm edgy, I'm pissed off, I feel like **** and I look like ****. So.....after 7 days clean....I found someone who gave me 6 vicadin. I usually take lortab 10mg...this was vicadin 5 mg. But I felt like I struck gold. For the first time in years I actually used in moderation. I took 2 at 7:00 pm. It's now 1:37 am and I still have 4. I'm very tempted to take those last 4...but I won't. I'm saving 2 till the morning. Now here is my question. Aside from kava kava, valerian root, melatonin, benydrel, tylenol PM and anthing like xanax...what the heck can I do to get some sleep? This is the third night of no sleep...other than about 1/2 hour at 5:00am this morning. My eyes burn from lack of sleep but I can't get to sleep. Surely I'm not the only one that has this problem???? Thomas? WW? Anybody? IS ANYBODY AWAKE OUT THERE?????

[Witchywoman]

Hi Katie,
I've been clean for a few weeks now, and my sleep is *still* not back to normal. About five days ago, the melatonin started to work, but I still can't sleep without it.

Katie, it is a win that you were able to use in moderation, and I'm glad you posted..I've been thinking about you.

For once I am stumped for words though, I'm lying here wathing CNN and crying.

Who on the forum lives in NY or DC? Family members?
I pray that you and your loved ones are all ok.

love,
WW

[mickytim]

WW, after all the interviews and researching the schools for my daughter in NYC, luckly the school we chose for my kid is on the east side on 8th street, My wife works on 23rd and Madison for an investment bank, and watched the building that we visted and had lunch in while visting my brother in-law, just last week crumble to the ground.

I never thought in my lifetime, especailly after the last bombing, that, that building or the one next to it would come down, but it did. Luckly my brother in-law, who survived the last bombing with alot of cuts and brusies, was not in the building this time. But many of hie coworkers were.

I am so stunned right now, the loss of lifes and just the thought of me watching as a plane crashes into the WTC and then it falls and then the other one, NYC will never be the same, NEVER, Pray for all those who lost their lifes and the rescue workers who tried in vain to help, only to lose their lifes. I'm so stunned, after watching the space shuttle blow up years ago I thought I saw everything, after seeing the building in Oklahoma blow up I thought I saw everything, Man was I wrong,

Once again this is what makes me want to make my life worth something other than being in pain and being a addict. Things like this, seeing others in adverse situations, Make me realize that I'm breathing and walking ( even in pain ) and many more people have worse problems than I do, that keeps me pushing to not go back but forward.

I hope all of you get the same feeling and use your strength to overcome your situations!!

All the strength and power of the day!!

peace
mickytim            

[Witchywoman]

Mickytim, I'm glad you are ok.
I completely share your feelings. This tragedy is so beyond the scope of anything I've ever encountered that I can barely grasp the horror of it.

Not just NYC, the entire country will never be the same.

My prayers are with all those who are working to rescue any they can, and with all of the people who have lost their loved ones or their own lives in this tragedy.  It does make me grateful to be alive, breathing, and relatively well...and does reinforce my desire to heal from addiction.

WW

[jule1]

I am sitting here watching stunned as I am sure you all are.  My hubby workds in midtown but is constantly giong to meetings in the world trade.  I am still waitin to hear about one friend of ours he has a new baby and works on the 70th floor.  I keep hearing stories of people who work there but their alarm did not go off or they missed the train and one of my friends husband stayed home with her because she was sick and he was going to go in late after the babysitter came.  So I guess we can be grateful that some lives were saved.  I couldn't get my husband on the phone for a couple of hours but got him on e-mail and he is on his way home.  This whole thing seems sureal sorry I am shaking I just had to write.  I am with you Micky I want my life to be more than searching for drugs.

[katie r]

I am so blown away by what has happened. I'm in California....can't even comprehend what those with loved ones in New York are feeling.
WW...thanks for keeping me in mind. I guess the melatonin takes time to work? I'll keep taking it and hope for the best. Kinda seems like a mute point now with everything else that has happened. Guess I'll check back here later and see how everyone is doing.

[Thomas]

it does make drugs seem trivial, doesn't it?

I pray that all the victims that lost their lives are in a much better place now. It has to be better than here, for today is surely hell on earth.

A little late, but the new millennium has, I think, arrived.


Thomas

[katie r]

AHHH! Thomas! So glad to hear from you! Your posts always make me feel better...
Today does make a drug addiction seem small...but yet still so big. As I watched the news this morning I was in tears and thought how much harder it is to hear this stuff with a clear head. I seem to always want to numb myself. I fear that is something I'll never get past.

[susanlea]

I live about 20 minutes from the Pentagon, right of  I-95.. This has been a day that will stay with me forever.  I was just getting ready to leave at 9:00 this morning when the news  came on about the WTC.  I just sat there stunned and crying.  Then of course the Pentagon.  I know several people who work there.  I have a niece stationed in the Navy Yard across the 14th street bridge. There is no way to get in touch with anyone.  The phones are jammed and on quick busy.  I went to get my kids from school and the grocery store.  Because by tonight there will be no bread or milk etc.  They closed the schools eary today.  I don't know about tomorrow.  My boys are too young to really understand the impact this will have on this Nation.  I feel soo sad.  It is so beautiful here and then just a very short drive.  We must all pray for the victims and their families.  We must pray to God that who ever did this is punished in Hell.  I agree, Hell on Earth today.  It makes me realize how small and trivial my problems are.  God be with us all....Susan

[mickytim]

Thanks for all your thoughts, jbear hope hubby is ok.

Of All the times I feel my daughters pain, she just called me in tears, I mean tears, I really feel her pain now, and everyone elses, I hope we bomb the **** out of them!

peace and strength
mickytim

[Thomas]

Pink Floyd said it best in comfortably numb ...

[Thomas]

for sleep, there's a great sleeping pill called Sonata (rx, of course). It puts you into the sleep cycle then apparently leaves your body in 1 or 2 hours, so no hangover.

other than that and the ones you named,

how bout 5 HTP? If it's some form of L-tryptophan, than it might put you down for the count after a warm bath. That or a good bong hit (which would be my sleep aid of choice).


Thomas

[RorschachTested]

Hi
I just want to add testimony to the benefits of 5-HTP. It's real inexpensive. Available at health food stores. It also helps with sleep. Don't take too-too much because it will nauseate you.
I think it's a wonderful drug for withdrawal of ANY addictive substance or behavior.
I was addicted to valium, about 30-50 mgs/day. Currently, I'm taking oxy-contin for chronic back pain. I'm a construction worker and have a bad back. The oxy-contin is PURE HELL. It's great when I'm on it but emotional and physical pain is magnified by at least 10 about 30 hours after I take my last dose. I stopped oxy a few times and it's ALWAYS 30 hours when severe agony kicks in. I suggest taking the 5-HTP about one or two weeks before stopping oxy (or any opiate).The problem with opiates is the severe depression and lack of sleep. (IMO) 5-HTP will help in these areas. Also Clonadine(spelling, NOT the diazepam type!!) helps in regards to the leg spasms.
My trip off valium was pure hell. An emotional roller-coaster. I really feel for you that are trying to kick these drugs. It's very hard to stop. You have to be prepared mentally to tough it out. I might also add that vitamin b-12 and bananas help. I think people reading this forum are likely using or recovered because if you're going through withdrawal, you don't have it in you to sit at a computer. I've got to stop oxy soon. I sure would appreciate some encouragement.
Take care.