heroin addiction

[vicki01]

why why why after almost two years , when the relationship got tough , did he resort back to the use of heroin? and when not using heroin, he thinks uppers are ok? why cant he understand he needs some other positive legal kind of help? why the drug? what could I have done?

[Francoise]

It wasn't, isn't you.

It's him.

It's him and his problem. And if you stay in this, it's gonna be your problem, and it's gonna be a BIG problem and it's gonna be a BIG problem that's likely to last a LONG time. And grind you up into a fine dust in the process.

How can I say all this? Statistics. Likelihood. Probabalities. Experience.

Do yourself a favor. Get out. Get out now.

Francois

[The Dude]

I think Francoise's statement is a little overboard.   How much do you love this person?  Try and get him help, be there for him for a little while.   DO ANYTHING YOU CAN TO GET HIM OFF HEROINE.  I went through it with my brother, and I'm glad I stuck with it, he's been off for three years now.  Francoise is correct to a point when she said, "It will become your problem."  Not if you let it.  

You think leaving him would make him better?  Nope, it would probably make him go out and O.D.

Good Luck, start making phone calls to Re-Habs, Doctors and anybody else that will help you out.  Somebody needs to take control of his life, it's sure as hell not going to be him.

[CASEY]

Tell me how you helped your brother get off heroin. I have gone to NA meetings, researched rehab, checked out detox options and shared all of the above with my 20 year old son but he '"doesn't have a problem". He is just depressed so don't expect him to hold a job or function like everyone else. I assure him I know he needs help before anyone, even himself, has expectations but he hides behind his depression, denying that heroin could possibly have anything to do with it. I love him. I will never give up on him but I feel like I am stuck half way up the escalator. Any ideas? thanks, Gina

[Telby]

No one makes anyone "go out and OD" - heroin addicts don't let anyone have nearly that much power over them, if they did they'd allow others to help them.  There are times when all one can do is let go and go on with their life.  It makes no sense for those who love the addict to jump into the same pit the addict is falling into.  It's possible to love someone and not let them destroy your life, in fact when the loved ones really let go and move on that often causes a miraculous change.  The addict has good radar and when significant others aren't walking the floors at night worried sick, they pick there heads up and notice even if its hundreds of miles away.  There is always the chance that a heroin addict will die, a good chance. Worrying will not keep them alive, but there is no such thing as a hopeless person and often just when everyone has thrown in the towel and drawn the line in the sand the addict will finally make some changes - it's scary to realize that others who love you have gone on with their lives and now it's really only you and the drug.       Hey Gina, we are both having trouble sleeping tonight - if I could make it happen for anyone it would be your son - not just for him - but for you.  love, Telby

[CASEY]

I always look for your posts. You are so sincere and insightful. I am so hungry to get what you have to give that I forget that  you are fighting your own battles. Please be as kind to yourself as you  are to all of us. Take care, Gina

[irishmom]

Hi Gina!  Sorry I haven't posted this week.  It has been very
busy going to doctors, therapy, the clinic (he tested negative
for HIV, thank God, more testing in 6 months), many conversations, a couple of arguments, lots of tears & hugs.
I don't think any of this would be possible without Dan wanting
to go thru detox, no matter what we would of said, done or hoped for.  He's clean for right now, this minute.  He will have to
deal with this addiction for the rest of his life.  
We started out at the doctor who specializes in addiction.  The
kindness in this man's eyes grabbed us as soon as we walked in.
He's retired from his family practice & had a friend who died of an alcohol overdose and decided to devote the rest of his life
learning and treating addiction.  My husband & I met with him for
about an hour giving him background on Dan. It was a very emotional meeting. He explained that he would need to treat Dan's
emotional, physical, spiritual & intellectual being.  He also discussed getting neurological testing (6-8 hours long). We left
knowing that if Dan wants help, this man is the one to give it.
Dan met with him the next day for about an hour & half.  He has lots of homework to do.  Take 20 minute walks everyday no matter what, he has 6 drawings to do for the next visit, he was given a prescription for riviea (sp?) to help with cravings, he has to attend 6 different meetings in the city to decide which will be best for him, he had to call & setup an appt for a physical & for the neurological testing, he also has to take a lot of time
to think about his relationship with his girlfriend and stay
away from her for the time being (he is), he's to continue the B-1, 1mg. of folic acid, and the multi-vitamin with phosphorus, magnesium & potassium & he also has to make sure he eats decently  
at least 3 times a day and drink lots of water & gatorade. (sorry
tried to remember everything but know I'm missing something)
The last 12 days have been  ???  I don't have the words.  His arms have scars but his eyes have lost the haunted look. I know
this is very hard for him and also know that he's giving it his best effort for which I am so thankful.  We don't know what tonight or tomorrow holds but for right now he's clean and trying
and that's all we can hope for.
Gina, please don't be so hard on yourself.  Your son knows you
are there for him.  He needs to be there for himself.  That's the only sure thing I learned in the last week.  No matter what or how, I can't do this for Dan.  He has to do this for himself.
I know from reading your posts that he knows that you will do
anything for him to help him help himself. That's what he needs to do.
What's that saying, 2 steps forward, 3 steps back.  I'm preparing
myself.  This is one nasty disease and it is a disease, not anyone's fault.  
I hope this helps and you don't take this post wrong.  
Keep the Faith!  
Kate

[Telby]

Things sound so good for Dan and as I read your post I was fascinated by what sounds like excellent treatment planning by the Doctor.  I wonder if you would mind emailing me with whatever specific assignments (homework) and daily routines that he has to participate in.  As you know I am trying very hard to detox and begin my recovery from oxycontin addiction.  For many reasons I am not able to work with a professional so I must develop a plan for myself and follow through with it.  I feel bad asking you for this favor and certainly I will understand if you have much to much going on to spend time on this. Kate I mean it - the last thing I want is to be another addict pulling from you so don't give it one single second of a thought if it's not possible.  But if you are able I would appreciate knowing what tasks Dan is assigned and/or any information you could share- including the vitamins/supplements.  Your posting was already very helpful and got the juices flowing in terms of creating my own plan of action.  I am a huge fan of both you and Gina and appreciate the kindness you have always shown me and others on the boards.  Gina's post to me brought tears to my eyes as she with few words melted my armor and touched my heart.   I remember before my addiction took hold being in contact with a crack addict who really had become someone that was hateful, dishonest, and just very difficult to even be around because the drug had just destroyed any apparant goodness or redeeming qualities. In a word he was awful in every way.  But he had a mom - he had stolen from her, humiliated her, physically and emotionally abused her and lied with every word that came out of his mouth. This woman was almost dead from the years and years of heartbreak, it was unbelievable. But when ever she spoke of him or saw him her eyes would light up and although she was clear about the disease that had caused them both so much pain - she loved this guy with every fiber of her soul. She sat through court cases, traveled hundreds of miles to visit him in prison the whole bit. She never gave up and she never ever let him stand alone.  Seeing them together one day it dawned on me that she was proof there was a God.  No one but her could love this person, there was nothing left to love - no one but her and God. I thought this is proof there is a devine Being which was the essence of love and the enormity of her love was just a speck of Gods love for all of us.  I'm afraid I'm not saying this very well but when I hear you and Gina it reminds me of the power of love and that by giving total love to anyone is our conection with the source of love. Gods love for us is so huge and awesome we only get a glimmer of it when we see it in action like that mom and her son.     Don't mean to lay a heavy God trip out on this board, it's just a specific thought and message that Gina and Kate brought to mind. Don't let it make anyone uncomfortable I don't usually talk about this stuff.It's just a story, not meant to intrude on anyones beliefs or non-beliefs.    Anyway - Kate if you can send me some stuff my email address is ***@**** (Gina of course your welcome to write also).  much love, Telby

[IrishRose]

Kate- I am so heartend to hear Dan is seeking recovery! You and Gina are in my thoughts. Sounds like you are in for the long haul but Dan is fortunate to have a loving and supportive family just as you are blessed with your lovely child! Gina, your son too is blessed to have a rock of a mom there for him! Take care. IrishRose.

[CASEY]

You all carry me  through. My son told me today that he has a $300 to $400 dollar a day speedball habit. It is becoming easier and easier for me to do what I need to do to save myself and him. Lines in the sand are really hard for me but I can't wait for an epiphany on his part. I felt like I didn't even recognize this person sitting next to me saying he feels he has no hope of ever getting clean. Telby, what you said about addicts sensing when people quit participating in the game helped me detach in a healthy way. Rather than feeling like I am abandoning him, I felt like maybe I was contributing to his health by stepping back a bit. I used to have to get angry to do that. Now I can do it calmly. No matter how old we get, we all need someone to  give us unconditional love. I hope there is someone in your corner, You all give so much. I am still stuck on the comment that Patricia said about her father calling her a *****. How can you give birth to someone and abandon them like that? Your kids are lucky to have you all. Take care, Gina

[irishmom]

Hi Telby!  Sorry I haven't checked in for a few days. I will
email you today after attending another doctors appointment.
My thoughts and prayers are with you.  Hang in there and keep
the faith in yourself. Kate

[irishmom]

Dear Gina,  It was so hard for me to recognize that Dan had
a problem.  I noticed the weight loss, the lack of eating,
the physical condition of both his girlfriend & him, his lack of any moods with the exception of anger (when he needed the drugs).  
I have been recovering from numerous surgeries and colon cancer and knew he was stealing my pain meds but still didn't want to see it for what it was.  I wanted to believe that he took the meds for his girlfriend.  I didn't want to see the selfishness
of his actions. Now I wouldn't hesitate to call the police and report the theft.
Why did I not act sooner?  That's the guilt that I have been
trying to work through.  All doctors involved have explained
to me that I should let go of any guilt I have.  Dan has made
certain choices and now lives with the consequences.  I can
help, support and be here for him but it's up to him period.
If love was the answer, no one would have this problem.  It
is a disease just like my colon cancer and has to be treated so.
Like my colon cancer, I had to go to get medical treatment.
I will continue to pray that our sons will seek the medical
treatment that they need.
Please Keep the Faith!
Kate

[irishmom]

Thanks so much for posting that Dan is a lovely child.
I missed seeing the light in his eyes, his humor, intelligence,
his laughter and sharing.  So many things...
All I want is to see him healthy again.  To know that he loves himself.  
I will be here to support, love and try to guide him as long
as I live and hopefully these things will live in his heart
forever. I'm the same mom I've always been but I think he
realizes that I'm here no matter what.
He's been 16 days clean and we are all so very proud of him.
We hope and pray that he continues searching for himself drug
free.
My best to you and all on this board.  You have all helped
us with your stories, strength and sharing.  Thank you!

[tce37]

i am writing to tell anyone who needs to talk or needs help
  in there drug detox that i am a professinal detox helper
  i have been doing this for over 20 years and have basicaaly
  seen it all so if you need help please email me or post a note thank you   email address is  tce37 @attbi.com

[sadness]

i was reading your stories, and thought it might help to hear from someone on the other side, i am currently a heroin addict, i have been doing it daily for about a year, but i slowly became addicted over 4 years of occasional use. most addicts don't care about anything but drugs, i have lost contact with freinds, spent all my savings and owe money, and all i think about is how i'm going to get the next fix.  fortunately i know i have a problem, and have managed to keep a full time job and retain some kind of life, but i can see how easy it would be to let go and give up on the rest of my life. I refuse to let myself become what some of my friends have become - thieves, liars and lowlifes. Addicts will lie to get what they want, and it's sad, because you still see the old person inside and you think that if you could say or do the right thing they'll snap out of it. I was the last in my group of friends to become an addict, and for a long time i belived what they told me "you won't get addicted if you only do it once and a while" "i can quit whenever i want" etc.. Only after i had become addicted, did i find out that my friend did it on purpose so he would have someone with money (since i had savings and he was in huge debt) to pick up and share drugs with him. This guy was my best friend for 10 years, and he used me, lied to me and dragged me down with him. There is NOTHING you can do to make someone quit, they have to decide for themselves, and even then it's not easy. I have quit 3 times, and the longest i made it was 5 days. the physical suffering is nothing compared to the mental aspect. I had gone through the pain and was feeling normal again, but all i thought about was getting a piece and doing some hits, and i made excuses to myself to make it seem rational. I would never wish this on anyone, and unlike my friend, i tell anyone who asks "don't even try it once!!" because it does make you feel good, and it is enjoyable(hence the high addiction rate!)and you will lie to yourself until it's to late to stop. I try to help people understand what it's like to be an addict, so if anyone wants to ask questions, feel free, i'll answer anything.  I am currently trying to quit again, this time i went to the doctor and got some prescriptions to help, but not methadone.  Methadone is a joke, it's like saying "your an alcoholic, so to cure yourself, drink beer instead or whiskey". I have 3 friends who are not herion/methadone addicts! I wouldn't go on methadone if it was the only choice i had, i'd rather suffer and quit cold turkey. Well, i've been pretty long winded, so i'll end this. If you want to know anything, just ask, or if you have any tips to help me quit, i'd love to hear it!

[CASEY]

TCE, what would you tell my 20 year old son about overcoming  his heroin addiction?  He has the chance to detox inpatient but he keeps putting it off. Following that, he can go into a 20 day inpatient. He is so convinced that he won't be able to stay clean that he doesn't see the point. Do you know of any success stories I can pass on to him? How can he avoid relapse? Any tips for detoxing? He is stuck in his addiction and forgets that life can be better. He is so depressed and lethargic that he doesn't dare hope. Help! Gina

[tce37]

dear gina,
sorry if i didnt reply real fast been out all day sorry.
first off trying to make someone quit is tough gig.
although talking to him instead of fighting with will work better
just dont give up on him. if he wont detox in a hospital maybe try slowly detox at home?
if you have pictures of drug addicts that o.d. that might get his attention?
but you will have to not fight with him about quitting he is 20 years old so he will have to make this decision if he really wants to quit.
as far as staying clean thats the million dollar question!!!~
if a person really wants to quit and stay clean then they will
have to use all the will power they can find.
staying clean is the hardest part. detoxing will end after a few days or so but staying clean thats the trick. will power,willpower. and the real feeling that the person wants to quit!succes stories are out there althought he needs his own succes story because one persons deal is probally someone elses
nightmare.so hang in there i will mull this over and try something to better help you and your son.so be watching.
by 200 on sunday i will post a message.
                  

                       stay clean
                         tce

[IrishRose]

Sadness- thank you for sharing your story, please keep posting, you are welcome here. There is a way through. IR.

[abusa]

I can somehow relate to your son except i get my drugs legally. I am nineteen , a girl, and very hopeless. I used to get 200 mlg to 240 of oxys which are heroin in a pill. Now this sounds terrible but i had a friends brother who quit heroin after doing or shooting it for 6 yrs non stop by going to jail. your son loves you more than anything and you need to put him in a program that detoxes him using methadone, i used that, and it was hard but now i'm off. And if he objects to that then threaten that you'll call the police. in his mind, heroin is the only way to get through the day. soon enough he'll need your help and deny it unless he gets help from professionals  I have incredible chronic pain  Fibromylgia (fibromyalgia) degenerative disk disease constant infections around my privates which is not fun.

[CASEY]

Telby, your note to David was right on the money. I copied it and will put it on his hospital table when he goes into detox. He has been trying to avoid goind all weekend so I have quit pursuing him. The post where you said that addicts know when you quit making them the center of your universe has guided me many times  lately. I actually feel like I am doing a good thing when I am not so tightly focused on him.That used to make me feel guilty. All of you, thanks for you personal stories and suggestions. You are all an inspiration.  Today is my birthday. I have decided I am not going to spend one hour of my 54th year contributing to the addiction of my son. There, I have said it. My energies are only available to contributing t his health. Love, Gina

[tce37]

hey telby!
          hi, how are you? i hope you are doing fine. how's life been since the last time we've talked? i would really like to hear from you to see how you are doing, and hear what is going on. may god bless you, take care ,

                                  your on line friend
                                          t.c.e.
      p.s. email me if you wish!

[tce37]

Hey Gina,

     How are you and your son doing?  Sorry I didn't get back to you when I said I would. I have worked two doubles in the last three days. Anyways, have you had any success with your son?  May the lord be watching over both of you.
     If you would like to give me a update my e-mail address is ***@****. Hoping to hear from you soon.

                             On Line Friend,
                                T.C.E.

[CASEY]

He finally went to the hospital to detox at 10:00 last night. It took me all weekend to get him there. Once he realized that he could have no visitors or family support, he freaked. He said he wasn't ready for it, heroin was the only thing that gave him relief from depression and he doesn't want to give it up. I let go and said the help is there when he wants it. I am exhausted. Had to get up at 5:30 am after getting home at 2:00 am from the hospital. I don't know what to do now. Sometimes the best thing to do is nothing. I just want to collapse. He was afraid I was mad at him. I was just sad. Sorry you are working so much. Take care! Gina

[IrishRose]

Whew! He finally went? My prayers are with the both of you as always. This I hope will be a beginning for him. You are right, sometimes the best thing to do is not a thing, just rest and take care of yourself now. Keep us posted on how you both are doing. Take care. IR.

[CASEY]

He went but he only stayed 1/2 hour. He panicked and checked out AMA. I am afraid we are back to square one. Gina

[tce37]

hey gina,
sorry to hear about your son splitting the hospital.
well maybe things will change in the long run?
i know this may sound personal but are you finding anytime for
yourself or your husband?
maybe you need a break from this?
i know it may be hard but you have to find time for yourself!!!
just show love and support at this point might be all you can
do.until hes ready to kick or get tough and find his dealer
and confront him.as they say do what ever you have to to get in between your kids and the drugs? just a though?


                        take care

                         tce

        p.s. keep in touch

[tce37]

hey gina,
sorry to hear about your son splitting the hospital.
well maybe things will change in the long run?
i know this may sound personal but are you finding anytime for
yourself or your husband?
maybe you need a break from this?
i know it may be hard but you have to find time for yourself!!!
just show love and support at this point might be all you can
do.until hes ready to kick or get tough and find his dealer
and confront him.as they say do what ever you have to to get in between your kids and the drugs? just a though?


                        take care

                         tce

        p.s. keep in touch

[IrishRose]

Damn. Well, it was progress though, for him to be willing to go. It sounds like he is really scared. There are a lot of fits and starts on this road, I know that is of little comfort to you now. Gina, I'll keep on praying, maybe light a candle and even petition a saint or two, whatever it takes! Take care of yourself. IR.

[CASEY]

You are exactly right about distancing myself from this. He had me on the run for about a week with his good intentions but I wanted it too badly. I let go of it yesterday, went to bed at 7:30, exhausted from the night before. He called me at 11:00pm, saying he was reconsidering.(Don't addicts ever sleep?!) After we talked for a while, I realized that he was still ambivalent so I told him to go to bed and call me when he really could commit to it. I then unplugged the phone and went to sleep. Lobbing the ball into his court was such a relief. I can't handle another false start so he has to intitiate it and follow through. I am hopeful but not holding my breath. Yes, please keep those candles burning. Thanks so much. Gina

[jennyfla]

Hi Gina,
I've followed your story for a long time now, and the pain a mother must feel watching their child go through the horrible day-to-day dealings with addiction must be horrible!
He did go, although he panicked, it as a step.
If he is not fully ready, it won't work, he needs to make up is mind to do this for no other reason than to want to be clean.
Unplugging your phone was a good for both of you, although it's painful i know.
Continue to support and love, but put yourself first on the list of love, don't destroy yourself, you won't do him or yourself any good like that.  Focus on you, hopefully he will follow your lead and start focusing on himself and getting help for HIM!
I know you've suffered a great deal, I'm a mother of three, although they are still young, it is always in the back of my mind wondering if genetically they will follow in their parents' footsteps (god save them!!)
((HUGS)) to you and prayers for your son.  May he find his way to health and happiness soon!!!
Lv Jenny

[sadness]

I've been reading your stories about your son. Even though he went to the hospital, it's still not enough. It's so easy to talk about quitting when your not hurting, i do it all the time, i have the greatest intentions of quitting and i say to myself "this is it!".....then i start to feel the withdrawls kicking in and i start to make excuses and reasons why i should put off quitting for another day. Freaking out because he found out he would be totally cut off(although i don't know how he wouldn't have known that beforehand, we all know when your in detox you don't see ANYBODY!) was a perfect excuse for him, and one that he feels you would accept. Keep your distance, don't belive anything until he DOES IT. It's not easy, but it's ALL YOU CAN DO!!! I know it's kind of blunt of me to say, but remember, I know what it's like thinking like an addict.

[CASEY]

Sadness, your bluntness is appreciated. It wasn't that he had to talk me into "letting" him out. I knew I had nothing to say about it. It has to be his deal. I had pushed the envelope getting him there by threatening to not support him in anyway. He made it clear he wasn't interested in getting clean but he was trying to please me and his girlfriend. I was reminded of a good lesson. I have really backed off and  am not putting myself in the position where he can bargain. If he goes, he goes but it is his deal not mine. I am trying to keep busy so I don't focus on him all the time. I know too much about his habit so I get the visuals in my head all the time. Not a pretty picture for a mom to imagine. Keep me posted about you , too. take care, Gina

[CASEY]

Telby, I wrote to you last night on the other board and the board has disappeared! Too wierd. Bottom line, I hope you can break through the darkness. Sometimes, it's a matter of taking a very tiny step. For me, it is doing something concrete like taking a walk, hanging up the pile of clothes that has been mounting on my chair, washing my hair. A little accomplishment rather than "what's the use?" Hope the job thing turned out best for you. You are so much more important than any job. Unfortunately , they are a necessary evil but they are not our identity. Jenny, I marvel that you take the time out of your struggles to offer me hope. You too, Telby. Both of you, love yourselves. Here's a major global prayer for all of us and ours.
Sadness, how would you like your loved ones to treat you? What would be most helpful? I am not unaware of my son's shortcomings but bringing them to his attention doesn't motivate him to  change.  He already has enough shame for all of us. Take care, Gina

[jennyfla]

If there wasn't enough time in this world for others who try so hard for those they love, then we might as well forget it all!
I so respect your strength and loyality towards you son, i just feel you are one tough lady, and you have a beautiful soul!!!
As a mother, I feel connected to you because like yourself, my children are the most important things in my life.  I would give my life for them!  
Keep the faith, but don't loose yourself through all this.  Without you, your son would have nothing!!!  Remember, the key is to help yourself and don't get lost, and hopefully he will follow your lead!  (((HUGS)))
Lv Jenny

[littleguy]

Gina,

This may not be important information at the moment, but I wanted you to know that detox is available in what I found to be a more supportive atmosphere.  There is a place in Cooper City, Florida, that is not "lock down" and family members can visit every nite as long as they are willing to attend meetings with the addict.  It is a relatively comfortable opiate detox with a tapering methadone / valium schedule.  If I could ever do an in rehab detox again, it would be there.  They do take most insurance plans and also provide for transportation to and from the airport, for the addict.  

littleguy

[CASEY]

While I cannot afford a trip to Florida from Seattle right now, it is reassuring to hear that such a thing exists.  Maybe the trend will spread.  My son is making noises about wanting to detox. His life is getting really difficult and he is worn out. I asked him not to get my hopes up until he is actually ready to do it. I can't take anymore false starts. I will remember your info, though, and will probably be posting sometime to ask for the specifics. Guess I will go out and buy a lottery ticket, now. It is time for my luck to change, isn't it? I truly appreciate you thinking of us. Prayers?, love, Gina

[cleanandsober]

I am a non-using heroin addict.  I have been clean for 5 years after 15 years of abuse.  I can tell you that for most of us, short term solutions don't work very well.  I have been through 14 programs and been on methadone many times.  There are places that can help.  One such place is a Long Term Treatment Program called Habilitat.  It's in Hawaii.  It saved my life.  They help people get to the root of the problem, teaching a change of lifestyle and many other skills.  I think they have a web site by the same name. The main thing that has to happen is the addict MUST WANT TO CHANGE HIS/HER LIFE. In short...we have to have had enough...From my experience...the family of the addict MUST cut the addict off until help is sought....to give in and enable only prolongs the cycle.  From a recovering addict's view..lay down the law...seek help or get out...don't give an inch....if you mean anything to the person....they will seek help.

[CASEY]

I will check out their website. Update: my son called me yesterday to go into detox. I told him I would only help if he were serious. We went to er to get admitted. While there, his fever spiked. He has endiocarditis. He is in the hosptal but not detox ward. He is detoxing but also getting treatment for his infection. I was disappionted that the illness derailed the detox opportunity but at least he's a captive audience to the iv. He is restless and thinks he is invincible so i fear he wil check out against medical advice. Let go let God, I guess. Pray for us. It is great hearing from someone who made it out of the heroin hell. Do you go to NA or AA? thanks, Gina

[cleanandsober]

Another thought... Legal problems can lead to a final solution.  Most addicts get busted for something...If you can get him arrested you might can get him senteced to a program.  I'm crazy you say!  Not so....Prison vrs. treatment...if an addict has only those options, they will opt for treatment almost always.  If he gets busted....DON'T GET HIM OUT...If he is alive in jail...he's alive...If he dies from an OD or contracts AIDs...he will be dead....I don't want to be a jerk but I speak from my own past...MY MOM KEPT BAILING ME OUT...WHEN SHE STOPPED...I GOT HELP...I'M CLEAN 5 YEARS & I'VE HAD ENOUGH. Mom's mean well but often only contribute by trying to fix the problem...most addicts need long term help...I found the site I mentioned earlier...just look on the web.  it's on an island...a real long swim from where you are...

[IrishRose]

Hi Gina,
     Endocarditis, jeez, he's lucky he got to ER soon. That has been the demise of many a junkie. Did it scare him? I know I thought I was invincible at that age too, I can't believe I am 41 yrs old and lived to tell. Of course I am still praying for you, I think I'll sick my mom's prayer circle on him too, they are a group of women who meet every Monday and pray for anyone who is in trouble. She and I are praying all the time for my son, T. who is 23. He moved back home with us and is allegedly looking for a job and tapering off Paxil. Sigh. Take care. IR.

[CASEY]

You would think it would scare him but he had a similar scare last May and survived it. Today is day 2 of detox and already he is talking about when he can get out of the hospital! He just doesn't get it. He might have to have surgery on his heart and he is asking to go home. He doesn't have a clue that he might have to be in for 2 more weeks to be medicated for the infection. You are right. He does think he is invincible. I don't know what I will do if he checks himself out AMA which he has done in the past. Yes, please include him in your prayers and I will do the same for your son. Careful of the taper on Paxil. Take it really slowly.

Clean and sober, I totally agree that an arrest might get him there. I would totally love it if his dealer would get arrested while my son is in the hospital. Love to see his source dried up. Thanks for thinking of us. I think your insight and experience  is invaluable. sincerely, Gina

[cleanandsober]

Supply is not the answer...My mom always wanted my dealers busted...alas, even if one went to jail..there were 4 or five back ups....the lure of fast money makes the drug trade a favorite with people with warped values and morals...Forget about the supply..there will ALWAYS be someone with drugs for sale...put me on any street corner USA and by nightfall I'll be high...I will be very honest...I still love heroin...I just realize that there is a great price I must pay if I use the stuff...Jail, Hep C, no friends, no money, no family..etc...It took me 15 years to get that through my thick scull...I nearly died from MRSA..staph infection from dirty neddles...I have Hep C which might kill me...and so on....Addicts need to be taught how to live a little different...I have seen it done...I have done it myself...It is possible but the family MUST make it the only option....it sounds to me that you guys think that a little stay in the hospital with make everything OK...hard core addicts need Hard core treatment...We need to be out of thye old lifestyle for several years...and be brainwashed into be responsible, accountable, loving, dependable..etc...Another honest point...3rd party payment has turned America's treatment programs into a big joke...It's all about insurance...when it runs out, the addict is told to go to a meeting and work the steps....Now I don't knock AA or NA..in fact I still go for support...But I never would have gotten a guy like me, Hard Core Heroin Addict, clean for any length of time...I tried for 15 years...No..the hard core addict needs a long term solution...check out a TC...pheonix house, daytop, habilitat, these are centers who are run by former addicts who have been there...not some doctor who read about addiction.  They use a diiferent method...it's worth checking out...You son needs to be cut off from you with an ultimatum...seek help from a long term treatment program or get lost...no money, no bailouts, no talking, nothing...most families are not willing to take this route...and they all regret it when they are standing at the funeral...It is obvious that your son has no value to his life...you care more about him then he cares about himself...par for the course with people like us...From a guy whos been there...he has to get long term help...if your attitude towards this doesn't change...don't expect his to change...I don't profess to be a DR. but I can tell you what I've learned...Praying is great for your soul but don't expect devine intervention...He helps those who help themselves...You can help yourself by choosing NOT to go on like this...Ultimatum...seek help or get lost...

[cleanandsober]

Check out this book ...Journey From Hell...Let me know if you can't find it and I might can get you a copy...!

[Seedling]

Hi, this is the first time I have really needed help to understand how my boyfriend has kicked the herion habit about 2 years ago........but takes 200 tylenol #1 with codeine every 1 1/2 weeks??  I have spoken to him many times and I myself being clean from uppers and cocaine for 12 years now, I know it is not good to badger him.  I have let him know that I am sincerely here for him to talk to.  We have an excellent relationship besides me not having any trust about his codeine use.  This is a barrier between us and the topic just gets him bothered and angry.  He keeps telling me that codeine does nothing for him.  I say that if he takes that many about 15 per day or more, than he must get high somehow.  I've even asked him if it is the physical part of just putting it in his mouth and swallowing.  He is really in denial and hides a bottle with 100 in it to go to work.  The other bottle is in the bathroom at my reach.  He constantly fills some up in the bathroom bottle from his bottle for work and makes it look as though not many are being used.  Then if I check the one he takes to work it is usually another brand, and he denies that he bought another one.  In fact I save the small bags from the pharmacy for little things, and I found a bill in it with the purchase of a 200 cap bottle for #1's.  He was quite angry (thank god not drunk) and he asked why I would be in his work bag.  I honestly told him I needed the bag to use and the bill was inside.  
I myself played the game of every excuse in the book just to hide my habit.  I am very much in love with this man and I am more worried about what affects it will have on his insides.  He experiences nose bleeds and money seems to disappear quickly and he always has an "excuse".  He keeps telling me codeine can not be an addiction.  Today I spoke with a friend that has been clean for 7 years and has just started taking tylenol #1 to get high.  I am helping her and she is starting a programme at the hospital.  I mentioned it to him and he was pretty silent.  She has only taken 6 at a time to get high, in one day.  He has an enourmous amount in his body compared to her.  She said this can hurt his liver, is that true?  We both attend a 12 step program that has kept me clean and with him he thinks as long as he doesn't use herion he is clean.  Please HELP ME UNDERSTAND AND WHAT CAN I DO FOR HIM.   He is in perfect health except he says he takes #1's for a back pain.  It seems and is true he uses more on the weekends and this is when it is not so nice to be around him as his personality changes and he verbally abuses me that he would never do not drinking.  He drank when i first met him and he was fine.  It is the #1"s and he will not talk to me about it,  thanks for any help that is available

[IrishRose]

Hi seedling,
     Well sometimes I guess advice is what we ask for when we know the answer but wish we didn't. It certainly sounds as if your man has a problem with tylenol and with being honest with himself and you about this. Yes it can be toxic to your liver, the acetaminophin, he could indeed be harming himself physically as well. An excellent relationship usually doesn't have a lot of buts and if onlys in it. You are involved in a 12 step program as well? Then you might find some help for yourself there, since it sounds like he is unwilling or unable to do anything for himself at this point except protect his affliction. Alanon and Naranon are two programs for friends and families of addicts that you may find some help and support at. You can't change him but you can find some support and help for yourself for  the effects it has on your life. I am quite familiar with what is happening to you as I have been on both sides of that fence, the addict myself and in love with an addict. I have at various points in my life allowed other peoples addictions to make me entirely miserable and spent a great deal of time waiting to be happy if only they would quit, etc etc. It does tear your heart out to see someone you love hurt themselves in this way not to mention the wall dishonesty throws up in your relationship. Lying is pretty inherent in the territory of addiction. It sounds like in your gut you really suspect what is going on but talking with him about it has lead nowhere which is not in the least bit suprising. As far as helping him, unless he is willing and ready that will likely be a dead end too as he apparently doesn't perceive his tylenol use, lying to you and verbal abuse as problems. It sounds like you have tried to keep the lines of communication open and are aware that hounding him about it is useless. Usually consequences and unpleasant ones at that are what it takes for someone to be willing to change. I guess Dear Abby's advice "are you better off with him or without him" comes to mind. All you can really do is take care of yourself and don't put happiness on hold while you are waiting for him to shape up because it may never happen. Take care, hope I don't sound like to much of a hardass, seedling, please keep posting and let us know how you are doing.

[sadness]

I agree with your advice about cutting off the son until he actually gets help. I am currently trying to clean myself up, and i know that as long as i had money, and support, i had no intentions of quitting. It's only when you hit rock bottom that you can start to pull yourself back up.  It's the hardest thing i've ever done, and i am struggling. But my family doesn't know, i would never burden them with that little bit of information, because i know that it would upset them terribly, and they won't be able to help me, i have to help myself. That's why i feel really bad for the mother of the drug addict son. I know how my mom would feel if she knew my situation, that's why i would never tell her, even if i hadn't a penny and was sick and in pain, i wouldn't tell her. But until he's better, and decides he wants a better life for himself, it's better to distance yourself so your not getting hurt (although i'm sure he'd still be on your mind)by seeing a loved one ruin their life.  All you can do is be there when they do recover, and support them and be proud that they quit.

[Seedling]

Hey, thanks so much for responding.  Yes I appreciate your help and no, you are not being hardassed.  I would rather "shoot from the hip" and hear the truth from someone else. I do understand what you mean by both sides of the fence.  I am recovered now from using cocaine from the age of 15 to seven years ago, now 38.  I had 2 abusinve relationships and then chose to be a single parent for the last ten and I am so grateful for being clean.  I used about 4 times a year for the 5 years before I came totally clean.  I am very much wanting to be supportive and helpful to my boyfriend, as he is a good man and someday hopefully he will come to admit he has a habit.  I know about the avoiding of family members and hiding a drug habit and I myself did not resort to the lying, cheating or stealing to get what I wanted.  Thanks for the reminder of getting on with my life and not wait for happiness as that is what I have always done in the past, and looked at each day as a new beginning.  I now go to 12 step for co-dependancy!!  I get **** from my boyfriend for rescuing or giving too much time to others.  I believe it helps and I love to give help and understanding to others.  It is rather hard when it is a family member...........thanks a bunch.  I am going to check out the alanon and Naranon.  So far he has pourchased one bottle of 200 tabs instead of 2.  That may be a sign he is trying and I've checked his hiding spots and none there.  But then again.....he may have new ones.  It is not my mission to find them, just to help him when he is ready to come to me.  In the meantime I will stay on track with myself, not being selfish, but it is what I must do.  Thanks, Irishrose

[MandyX]

Hi, My X boyfriend whom I love dearly still is addited to heroin. I moved away from JHB to CT because of the way he was treating me before he used to drink excessively and emotionally abuse me to the point where I could not take it anymore. So  I moved. He claims that he then started using heroin because he cannot live without me and he wants me back he does not want to stop unless he can be with me again. He keeps on lying about using the drug and steels from his family and who knows where else to support his habbit. His dad made a case against him and had him locked up for the past week waiting trail in the attempt to get him dried out. He cannot go to one of the state rehabs cause he has to be convicted for that and then he has to go to be evaluated and assessed and he does not believe he needs it. He does not want to go there volentatry. His dad now asked me whether I will come there this Friday when he is due to get released and take him with me back here away from the area and maybe try get him into a rehab around here. But now I dont know what to do he is still the person I ran away from because of the problems we had then now it is even worse coz he has this problem on top of it. I stay in a fully furnished rented flat and all the appliances is not mine what if he starts steeling from me I am already in so much debt because of the damage he caused me when I was with him. I am not strong enough emotionally he caused me alot of pain. I still love him and I hate what is happening to him. His family is looking at me as to say that I am his last hope. I dont know what to do. He is very possessive and jealous as well and I work during the day and then I waitress at night I know he will not be happy with this and also he will want to use my car and since he smashed my last car with a car jack to the extend of R9000 damage I dont trust him with my belongings. I feel trapped do I let him come here take the gamble with my own life try and safe his will I even be able to help him I hate to think that I am his last hope and then turn my back. I am just so scared cause he has lied to me so many times and if he doesn't believe he has a problem then How am I going to fix him. help me please

[CASEY]

Please do not rescue him. I have put my son's girlfriend in the same position out of desperation and now I regret it. It only prolonged the disease. Take care of yourself and keep your distance. Other solutions will show themselves. He knows your vulerability and will use it. STAY AWAY! My son is a heroin addict also. I love him more than life itself and I wish someone else will magically rescue him but that is too much to ask. Go to alanon and save yourself. God will take care of him. Gina

[IrishRose]

Mandy, You can't fix him or save him. This would be like giving up your life for his. Don't be a heroin martyr. You were a smart and lucky girl to get out alive. Stay there. This is a helluva a burden for his family to lay on your shoulders but they are hurting and desparate. Nonetheless, stay away. All you can do is pray for him at this point. If there is an Alanon, Naranon or open NA meeting in your area go and arm yourself with information. Take care. IR.

[MandyX]

Thank you for your comment. I do understand what you saying. I really appreciate your time to help me I just wish there was an easier way. I pray for you and hope that your burden will be lifted soon. Mandy

[Mamsters]

Yesterday morning my son told me he has been doing herion for few months. I knew he was doing something and you think you are prepared but nothing can prepare you for this.....he said he wants to quit....he knows he is worth more then this.....and he is ...all of our sons, daughters, moms, dads, loved ones are....we all are ...as I research this today trying to find a place for us to go the nightmare is slowly unfolding of the days ahead....your strength is amazing to me.....and thank you for being here with your experiences and hardcore truth!

My son says he wants to stop and detox, he called his boss and told him straight out I am an addict and I can't work there anymore because almost everyone there is an addict and I have to get away from them and stop or I will be dead.

I read what everyone is saying about the rehab places and in our town the places they have replace one drug with the other......he said he does not want to this ....we are going to try a detox at home.....I know this not the preferred method and i know it will be hell on earth for him and our family and in the end he may still have to go somewhere else ........the behavior pattern has to change ......he will need long term counsiling... but at the moment this is what he says he will try....what do you think? my prayers are with you all and yours...please pray for my son Zachary......and my daughter who is caught in the middle of this nightmare....i understand that i must be strong and try to recognize the difference between tough love and enabling.....totally lost right now.....and it's just beginning isn't it....

[FLaddict]

Alot of changes have happened here at the site... Could you please repost this as a new question... due to the old date of the post I am afraid it will get over looked.. I want you to be able to get the support you came here for.. They just added the "new response jumps to the top" option on the site... so old posts are coming up and people are getting confused..

Thanks

[Member of the Tribe]

  Vicki, alot of addicts relapse, but that doesn't mean he can't change.  At some point either he has to bottom out, or have ultimatums given to him through support and love from you and the people around him.
  Many addicts who still relapse after going into rehab, find the methadone clinic as an alternitive. It allows them to not crave more opiates, and also blocks the effects of opiates.  Many of these folks live much more normal productive lives, but not all.
  I don't know if any of this helps, but he is in need of a hand to pull him out of the abyss, but he has to want it first....really want it.....some folks get so damn low from the heroin that they don't believe they can change....he has to see he can, and that he can find happiness through staying clean.
I hope you both find your way through this terrible darkness, and find true contentment.  Good Luck Vicki