how did evryone deal with the 1st 5 days , off the pill's.

this question is for everyone, how do people
deal with  the dreaded  1st week clean and what did
you do  to get through it.
this post is for people struggling to get past the
wall of fear we build in our minds, in regards to
stopping the vike's ,hydro,percs,.
i know i made it into a monster the thought of being with out pills scared me to death, but finally the pain of useing became so great , that a change had to come about.
when i found this fourm and read about the receipe , i found hope.
i was up to 15 vikes a day and i was scard to death all the time.
anyway i started on the receipe and went cold turkey, to my amaze ment
it was not nearly as bad as i had made it out to be in my mind,  i could not sleep well and i  was awake everyday at 5 am, my legs hurt
i felt like **** , but i felt like **** on the pills to.
5 or six days went by and i started to have feelings agian,
i was brought to tears rather quickly. after having no feelings
for 4 years. and then i was feeling happiness and joy it
was like a birth.
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Witchywoman]

Hi Hipee,
Thank you for bringing up this very good topic. You really hit the nail on the head with a lot of what you said.  I had built up a lot of fear about what withdrawals would be like, and the truth was that it was not nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be.

Once I through the worst of the physical withdrawals, I was so overwhelmed with feelings of joy that I did it, that I didn't focus on missing the drugs. It looked at it as an adventure and as a new chapter in life.

For me, my strong spiritual beliefs were a tremendous help as well. We all have different beliefs and experiences in this department, and I don't believe that it is necesary to have spriritual beliefs in order to get, but I believe that it does help.

So anyway, the first 5 to 7 days off the pill were something that I was so proud of that I could barely contain myself I loved it. The cravings to use again started about 2 weeks after withdrawals were over and I dealth with those (and still do) by reaching ou to toehers and trusting them. My forum family got me through it.

This is off subject, but I want to tell y'all something that is very important to me.

My mother got sober in AA 28 years ago. The woman who was her sponsor literally saved my mothers life and was very kind to me. She lead a sad, hard life on her own though.  She had plenty of money, a luxurious home on the ocean, horses, all the 'stuff' that we thnk will mak us happy.  I loved her very much.

She died yesterday.

I am stunned, and spent a large part of the night crying and refecing on my gratitude for all she did. If there is a heaven, the angels welcomed her with open arms.

I found out from listening to the phone message my mom left me, but I haven't talked to my mom yet. There is a strong possibility that I'll be flying to Massachusetts today or tomorrow to support my mother in her time of grief and honor this wonderful woman's life.

Life is precious. She touched lifes that she doesn't even know she touched.
I hope I told her often enough how special and important she was to so many. I truly loved her.

Thank you for listening.

love,
Tara aka WW

[peaz]

Hi Tara--I've never posted to you before, but now is an obvious time to try to comfort you.  I'm sure this woman knew what she meant to you simply because I see the compassionate and caring way you deal w/ everyone on this forum, no matter if they are newbies or veterans.  You will be a God send to your mother, who, no doubt, is as impacted by this death even more than you.  It sounds as if you two will have wonderful memories to share of this  giving woman.  So go and be w/ your mom, have a safe trip, and talk to us when you get back.       Love, Peaz


  P.S.  Is that an angel I see there on your shoulder?

[Allburnedout]

I, too, am new to the forum. First off, I want to thank everyone for the wonderful information provided. I'm 35 years of age and a Vice President of a marketing company. I have been taking between 20 and 25 opiates (any that I could get my hand on) for a little over 2 years. My addiction actually started out with oral surgery and I got hooked. My life is out of control. I stopped using 5 days ago and started outpatient last night, which is 2 meetings per week. I stopped cold-turkey and it took 4 days to detox. Today, I feel better than I have in a long time. My head is still fuzzy, but the alternative is not even a choice. Opiates made me numb. I shut out my family, friends and co-workers. I'm aware that it's an up-hill battle, but I'm determined to have my life back. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. The lies, deception, hiding pills, etc. is over for me. The should put a red pitch fork on pill bottles!! Again, thank you all.

[gia]

To everyone,
I have been doing alot of research on opiate addiction, however I am not a doctor, only a pre-med student, but i heard about this recipe that has worked for many and I am in the process of obtaining all of the ingredients for myself. I have estimated the cost of everything to be a little under $200.00. I know this can be expensive for some, but when it came to obtaining drugs we spared no expense. Well here it is, and yes this was formulated by a doctor who recently died at the ripe old age of 106. I will try to find the website I obtained this from and post it as well.

1.Vitamin B-5 500mg to 1 gram per day - vitamin B-5 is the vitamin that is needed to metabolize and breakdown substances in the brain. In other words you need enough vitamin B-5 for the brain to work optimally. According to Dr. Bob, usually vitamin B-5 in brain metabolism needs about a 1-3 ratio to other brain substances such as choline, L-phenylalanine, and others to properly effect the necessary chemical reactions in the brain. This is why Dr. Bob recommended one-half to one gram per day.

2. L-phenylalanine 250mg per day

[CATUF]

I'm sorry you lost such a good friend.  I'll be thinking about you.

CATUF
@38

[LizzyM]

Is hard depression part of the withdrawals??  I feel like crying ALL the time..am tired but only finally slept last night after taking 3 5mg Ambien.  I feel REAL irratated and still shaking with an upset stomach.  I am on day 14 of being clean.  I have NO desire to go back to the Hydro's, I just want to be the happy wife and mom again.  I think my husband is losing his patience.  I feel like such a *****,,this is not like me.  I am not suicidal nor do I want to hurt others..just want to crawl under my blankets in bed and stay there?  I have my twins who are 10 mos sitting here playing and smiling at me...this breaks my heart.  I am also on Zoloft for a year due to Post Partum, but I was doing great until I started taking the Hydro's again.  Anyone have advice??  I am desperate.  I am going to the doc today.  I think he wants to switch my Zoloft to Paxil, but, I am scared to death to change cause I know Zoloft has worked for me before this ****.  I just want to be HAPPY again....HELP..will I feel this way forever?  I feel like running away..but, I love my kids and husband so much.  I am so confused and desperate.

[athena]

Hi Lizzy.I just wanted to give you a little encouragement about your depression.It is very common to feel depressed after getting off opiates.your doc may be right about changing your antidepressent.sometimes the medicine we take will not work as well after being on it for a while.I was also on zoloft and recently switched to effexor after going through hydro w/d and getting more depressed than I already was.i think it's going to help.have you tried the recipe?It may give you a little more energy.I really hope you start feeling better.Sometimes it just takes time but keep your doc informed on how you are feeling.Good luck.i'll keep you in my prayers.

pixi

[LizzyM]

I tried the recipe and vomited for 2 days??  I have a sensitive stomach.  I can deal with the no energy, it's the depression and crying that is getting me.  I am hot all the time and sweating and very shaky.  My hands shake all the time. I am also very edgy, being a *****.  I think it's anxiety but the doc won't listen to me.  I am going to see the SOB today..he doesn't even look at me when I am talking.  I went off on his nurse yesterday and told her that I was going to report him to his superiors if he did not return my call and help me medically.  After I left his Detox, he acts like I never existed.  Not very good medical practice.   I guess they want your money and then don't want to help once you go home?  Anyway, thanks for the advice.  I'll let you know what the doc says.

[trout]

Hello,
Great topic.  I stopped using 24 days ago.  My usage had escalated to 30 10/500 hydrocodone per day.  I didn't taper.  The first 24 hrs is uncomfortable but not unbearable.  I felt depressed, nervous, uncomfortable, just bad.  Hell broke loose the 2nd 24 hrs.  Vomiting, bile diareah, aches, just plain despair.  I was able to minimize these horrific effects through the use of Loperamide Hydrochloride (Imodium (immodium) AD).  I exceeded the dosage until I felt less uncomfortable and believe me, it works.  I was able to go back to work on day 3 and I ran a 20 mile, 24hr relay race (Providian Relay) on day 6.  It almost killed me due to the fact that the natural chemistry in my brain (endorphins)had yet to kick in.

What is worse (in my opinion) than the 1st 5 days, is the post-acute withdrawal symptoms for which I still feel the effects.  It seems like I will never feel better again and this is very distressing.  I am back to running close to 50 miles a week and still only get periodic periods of relief.  My concentration is still unfocused and for at least 6 hours a day I go into that horrible, achey (achy) withdrawal where my pupils dilate and lethargy sets in big time.  I attribute the these lasting effects on my high usage (300mg per day) and quitting CT.  I think if you have a lesser habit, you may feel better A LOT quicker.  Please remember that as long as you are ONLY addicted to opioids, the withdrawal in healthy adults is ONLY very uncomfortable and NOT life threatening.  If you are alcoholic and or on Benzos or Barbituates, you need to detox in a hospital as WD from these ARE life threatening.  If anyone listened, thanks!  Trout

[hippy]

hey tara, sorry hear the news about your moms freind.
my father is in aa 37 years sober and his sponser is 44 years sober. my father  is youny 77 and his sponser is 79 and not doing good, he is forgeting people. i went to a alnon meeting
last month my brothers daughter was speaking at a alonon/alateen
anaversey.
she is 13  and her father passed away a few years ago due to od.
so any  way they also had a alanon speaker and a aa speaker,
i have
not been to a aa or alnon meeting for over 15 years, i go
to na, anyway the girl from aa starts to speak and she young and smart and very good , then she mentions that her grand father is in aa and has 44 years,  there are no chance meetings, it was all meant be,
then my neice spoke and i just had tears in my eyes.
well im rambling

, tho i must say that my fathers sponser
changed the world.he was great
peace, and i hope all goes well
michael from philly

[DIRTBAG]

Hey little sick girl, sorry your feeling so bad and please don't think that I am taking your situation to heart, Not only are you strung out you are at the worst possible part of parenting, I think you said you have three kid and I know you said you have twins, it is so hard, I have three kids and 2 of them are 12 months 6 days apart, I was pregnant with a 3 month old, however luckily I was clean for my first ten years of motherhood but let me tell you, I was crazy and tired and ran a business and my huslband was always mad, never got compliments, I totally understand all the bullshit, I've been married 20 years, my kids are 21,16 and 15, its easy now they take care of me. They don't know much about my continued addictions though. Here comes the point being stuck in the day to day makes it hard to kick, I've been trying since August, to taper do anything to quit, Now I'm on day 6 of cold turkey and it really felt like the flu but when I'm home it feels like I'm dying. Maybe you can just let the kids hang in there pjs and live on cereal for a week, **** the old man he's mad anyway and get it done.  Just remember staying home with little kids blows your mind anyway, when you look back on it you won't believe you lived through it, but you do. Take care and keep up the good work, your gonna make it.

[DIRTBAG]

Hey ww its me dirtbag/peagravel and now longhauler you probably read all about my name changes just want to be up front. I'm sorry about your friend and I hope you have a safe trip and keep in your mind what this women did to help your family when the stress starts to get bad for you and your mom. I'm in Chicago with 6 days clean and I go home to California and now the real test will start for me. I hope your fine and come back soon. Peace to you and your mom

[DIRTBAG]

Hippee another great question, here I am on day 6 and the truth is it felt like I had the flu but today I really wanted to look up a doctor I could of had about 2 hours alone time and that for me is plenty of time to score and when I'm out of state I can usually do well all the doctors want you to feel okay when your visiting you know but instead of staying alone I ran back to the hotel and hung out with my mom, I'm not ready to give up yet but if it was right in front of me I'm not sure.  All this hard work would I give it up for a pill.  Crazy how my mind is working right now, I've got to keep fighting

[athena]

Hi again lizzy,don't let that s.o.b Dr. intimidate you.most medical docs either don't want to or don't know how to deal with depression.It is a serious medical problem and needs serious attention!Sometimes PP depression can stay with you for a very long time.Even if you felt better for a while,the return to hydro use probably masked it and quitting hydro again probably just unmasked the depression that was already there.I hope things get better for you soon.

pixi

[Wardman]

Yes...days 1 through 5 are awful for me. Especially day 1 when I wake up in a compete panic realizing that i am quitting and I am out of meds.  However, I am lucky in the sense that it DOES get better.  Around day 30 it is so nice to be able to go out and not have to worry about the drugs.  I feel human again.  I hate taking these pills, I have become a slave to them and it has made me antisocial and given me panic attacks.  I am off for 8 days next week and hopefully I am gonna quit again. It can be done and I feel so much better when I am off pills.  Life DOES get better.

[taeme]

I'm afraid to feel that's what makes me feel like ****.  That's why all this stuff started.  I'm afraid of being fat, I afraid of being average, I'm afraid of failure, I 'm just afraid to not be perfect.  And I'm afraid of this because I don't think people will like me if I'm not smart, pretty etc... Cause you know why cause I'm not so perfect and I'm not always very social.  And I don't like to be alone. I'm afraid I don't like the real me either.  I've thought about this, maybe start working on the inside.  I tried that before I started with this.  It might have worked but I got introduced to coke and then everything was a spiral from there.  Who would have know, my husband who gave it to me to try surely didn't.  I have never been addicted to anything before at least medication wise.  I just don't believe that there's some way that I'm going to be happy, that everyday isn't going to be a struggle and then whats the point, thats no way to live.  Can you give some feedback.

[Witchywoman]

Hi friends,
Thanks for the support over the death of my mom's sponsor.
She was a wonderful woman. I remember when my mom met her. I was 12 years old, and used to go hang out with this woman's kids when she and my mom would meet to work on my mother's recovery.She was the kindest, most compassionate person I've ever known, and she saved my mother's life.  I remember loving her for helping my mother stop drinking, and thanking her with my child's bluntness for "giving me my mom back".

Last night, when I heard the news, I went outside and sat on the grass and looked up at the stars. I felt that heaven recieved an angel back into its gates, and that the earth was blessed by this woman's life.  Sadly she and her own daughter were estranged. Her own daughter never forgave her for the her drinking, and never got to see what a wonderful woman her mother was.  I hope that I haven't made that mistake with my mother, and if I have, it's high time I corrected it.

love,
WW

[Nod]

Your story sounds very close to mine.  Without getting into all that, just wanted to say congrats on making the "turn."  You admitted much by stopping and getting involved with a detox program.  Your secret is out - not to everyone, just the poeple who care and can help you.  Secrets are the thing that kill us addicts.  We are great at keeping them deep inside and with our actions.  We perfect keeping secrets by hiding them under lies and whatever else it takes.  

5 days is one heck of an accomplishment, thats the physical part mostly.  Now comes the harder test, dealing with the cravings and depression that can come with "losing your friend."  For me the depression was worse than the physical feelings, but they will pass, just stay focused on the end result - getting you back.  If the depression gets bad, maybe see your doctor about getting on an SSRI.  After many failed attempts to come clean, going on an SSRI (Paxil) helped with the depression and got me thru.

Nice meeting you.  Keep up the fight.  Let me know how your doing. I usually check posts 1x a day.

Take care - Nod

[taeme]

I appreciate all the supportive advice given by all. I'm just wondering if anyone has experienced this: when you try to open up its to much for people they get tired of it or really don't want to hear it.  In addition that have no way to truly understand what your saying.  They figure well you got yourself here, your to blame, why don't you just stop.  Like its take easy.  If it was there wouldn't be so many of us.  It's hard to truly open up because I feel like I'm dumping on those that I love the most.  I don't think they really want to hear it because they don't know what to do.  I've got as far as telling them what I need, like therapy, hospitalization and they still don't do anything, because I told them I don't know if I can do it on my own.  I did start to see the local mental health clinic, where they prescribed me SSRI's.  You know the best feeling was to know that hey I'm not just imagining things I truly have a problem that other people recognize and want and can help.  I don't are they in denial?  Or is it just they have no real experience with this?

[cheermom]

i'm not sure what to tell you about other people and the way they deal with it.  my husband or i should say ex-husband wallowed in his own denial that i had a problem with pills for about 1 1/2 yrs and then when he finally decided to face it he screamed at me constantly, went to his parents who gave him the money for a good divorce lawyer, threatened to take my kids away, etc...  he definitely did not offer any kind of support.  the ironic thing is when i met him he was a coke addict and went to rehab about 6 months later because i told him i wouldnt stay with him.  i completely supported him and had faith he would not relapse.  its ashame he couldnt do the same for me.  so basically i was on my own and i did it cold turkey trying to take care of 3 kids and it was awful.  but now i'm 6 months clean, me and the kids are living in our new place and though i'm sorry my marriage ended over pills i am definitely a lot happier then i was when i was on them.  i guess what i'm saying is you have to find that place inside yourself that knows you are a worthwhile, good human being who deserves to be happy.  whoever you get support from is great, whoever you dont just isnt worth your time.  it does get better and you will feel better you just have to do it for yourself and a lot of the time you will feel like you are all alone but this is a great forum and the people here are really supportive and full of great info.  do what you have to do to get through it and you wont be sorry!  hope this helped even just a little bit.

[LizzyM]

Went to the Doc today.  He said like Piki said...I had a relapse of the PP Depression from the withdrawals but not too severe.  He wants me to continue taking Ambien 10mg for another week and put me back on a med called Trazadone 150mg for Anxiety.  The doc took me off this Trazadone 2 weeks ago thinking I really didn't need it (it was a mistake on his part and he feels bad) and that is why I probably had a relapse. My blood pressure was REAL low too??  He told me to take it easy for the next 2 weeks. I still have to take Zoloft, but I was glad to hear that this WASN"T all in my mind.  My husband is REAL good to me..I just worry about him losing patience with me.  My kids make me smile; they are such good happy kids.  They are what keeps me going and fighting these horrible symtoms (symptoms).  My head hurts and my back feels on fire??  I guess that is part of this?  Thanks so much Piki and Longhauler for listening and giving advice.  It really HELPS ME SO MUCH!  Please don't stop talking to me!  I really appreciate it.  I'm hanging in there..I keep telling myself I'll get through this...going to take a real HOT bath now..good night and thanks agian everyone.

[lisabet]

Hippee - thank you for the question posed in the opening thread. I am still tapering and terrified of going off the pills for good. It reassures me to hear that sometimes the dread of going off the pills are sometimes worse than the actual deed.

WW - please accept my sympathy in the loss of your friend. She sounds like she was an exceptional person, and you have paid a wonderful tribute to her.

gia - thanks for this "recipe" - Have you used this yet, and has it helped?  I'm doing the Thomas recipe, and it seems like it has taken a lot of the cravings away. This one has a lot of ingredients I've never heard of - can you get them at a health food store, such as GNC?

Pixi - just want to say hi, and always enjoy your posts---you're a sweetie!

Lisabet

[taeme]

How many of you guys have kids, spouse, significant others? How many don't?  How are your support systems? Do you support systems outside your families other than this wonderful message board?  Thanks for the help.  

As far as my husband goes, he tries.  I just can't stand all the suspicion? What are you doing? What did you buy? What are you looking at on the internet etc.... Does anyone experience this? Or has experienced this in the past? Does it get better?

[suzieneedshelp]

WEll, my drug use is only known to my x.  He hated to see me on the puter.  But I was not on this site yet.  So..its a big secret that i'm an addict from my family!  The shame is very powerful. I just cannot see telling them  any time soon.  Are you still on now, its about 1 a.m. est. in fl?? If ya ever want to e-mail me its ***@****.  My yahoo is suzanne32308 if ya wanna chat.
Take care!
Suzie

[gia]

Taeme,
Definitely do not let this lack of compassion from others get in the way of your recovery. I had to deal with this issue myself and I actually left my boyfriend bcause he did not understand and was in denial of the fact that I actully have a problem. He made it seem like it was no big deal and that I was just getting high and that there was no urgency in getting clean. This made me feel so alone because he is the only person that I have here in Atlanta and is the only one that knows my problem. It used to really bother me, but I made up mind that it does not matter what he thinks and that he is not worth jepordizing my health an future. I learned to just ignore his imput and stay focus on what I need to do. Eventually I did invite him to this family education class at this outpatient program I was in and it opened his eyes a lot, so it might help to let your husband read some of the posts or get some literature or go to an NA meeting together. But I will tell you I had the hardest time opening up to anyone but once I did, like writing on this forum,I felt so good. I even go to NA meetings. The point is you are not alone. People do care and will help. Hell I don't even know you but I care about you now ! Just stay focused and keep posting and remember this is real problem, a disease like any other disease, one that can be survived. Althogh I am not out of the woods yet, I have a lot of hope and am excited about the new life that is waiting for me around the corner. I know this is a long post but i felt so compelled to write after reading your post. Just remember nobody can understand an addict better than another addict, so don't be too upset with others because they will never truly understand unless they have walked in our shoes.
By the way my email adress is ***@**** if you need to talk.
Take care

[gia]

I have not tried this recipe yet, actually I was suppose to get the ingredients today but realized I dont have the money I  thought I did. I just left my boyfriend and I sruggling between college, this withdrawal ****, and trying to survive on my own. Everytime I think aboout how broke I am it make me want to get high or die. i am sorry for the rambling I am just so depressed. Anyhow most of the stuff you can get at GNC, but you can purchase everything from this website that the recipe is posted on as well. http://www.restoreunity.org/brain_regeneration_in_heroin_addiction.htm
This is a recipe for heroin/opiate abuse. The last two ingred. are pharmacuetical but I dont think you need a prescription online. I heard from quite a few that it helps a lot, even  if you dont get the prescipt. ingred. It will help you get back to normal quicker and reduce cravings. let me know how it works cuz it will probably be a while before I get started.

[peaz]

      You're welcome.

[hippy]

hi there,
the only people who really listen are people who hhave been
there other addicts,most people in our society frown on addicts.
if you told them your problem was booze they would problep be
more receptive.
it is very wise to find a support group, i have found that i can not do this alone, so i go to na meetings, they can be difficult at first , but as time go's on they are most rewarding.
there is a few ways a person can share they can complaine,
they can dump all there problems, they cantell a war story about all the drugs they used, or they can talk about recovery and
what they are doing to get another day and how they help others.
some meetings are dumping grounds and not always fun to be at.
we need to take an active part in the structure of the meetingsd
when we get involved, this luanches us into a truely wonderful
recovery.
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DIRTBAG]

Honey have I got a secret! I told my family a couple of years ago I had a meth habit for about a year then and my kids supported me and my husband was surprised he had no clue. That really pissed me off. How can you live with someone on speed and not know it, he lives in a glass house, well they thought just stopping using would be it and so did I but I went right back to the precriptions and thats been 3 years in January and now I've kicked for the second time and nobody knows a thing except me and everybody here. I get the questions everyday and I feel like I live in a prison my husband and I both work at home together and live together.  I think I want a new job so that I won't feel so  smothered this time.  I'm on day 7 and have been trying to kick since August when I started posting.  Good luck with your life today and husbands are husbands and once you tell my experience is little support, mine just doesn't know me or I'm gotten so good at maintaining and covering my tracks, I've been pretty successful at being an addict but I'm on to something new

[DIRTBAG]

Honey have I got a secret! I told my family a couple of years ago I had a meth habit for about a year then and my kids supported me and my husband was surprised he had no clue. That really pissed me off. How can you live with someone on speed and not know it, he lives in a glass house, well they thought just stopping using would be it and so did I but I went right back to the precriptions and thats been 3 years in January and now I've kicked for the second time and nobody knows a thing except me and everybody here. I get the questions everyday and I feel like I live in a prison my husband and I both work at home together and live together.  I think I want a new job so that I won't feel so  smothered this time.  I'm on day 7 and have been trying to kick since August when I started posting.  Good luck with your life today and husbands are husbands and once you tell my experience is little support, mine just doesn't know me or I'm gotten so good at maintaining and covering my tracks, I've been pretty successful at being an addict but I'm on to something new

[hippy]

DBAG/PGRAVEL
hey there , good morning , great to hear the news
7 days , that is really nice to hear.
one of the things i had to do was shut off my cell phone.
or i would have got a call for pills and just said how much.
i a have always been weak in early recovery.
so you are in chi town . talk to ya later
peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hippy

[taeme]

Just wanted to know if anyone had experienced this with an online pharmacy, everythings find, delivery sent, pill bottle and instructions in package, no meds.  My mom asked me about this but I have no experience with these things.  Also she said it was from prescriptiononline anyone know these guys?

[Starraven]

Your mom had better contact prescriptionsonline to see what happened to the pills that were supposed to be filled.  Prescriptionsonline only fill prescriptions with a valid prescription so there isn't an issue of out of country meds that could have been seized by customs.  Did her package look like it was tampered with?  could someone have stolen the medication?
How in the world can a pharmacist be so incompetent as to put an empty pill bottle in a bag and ship it.
Let us know how it went..really strange
Hugs
Suze

[groovygirl]

Many of these online pharmacies are under such scrutiny, that they they should be paying more attention to things like this.  Was it a narcotic med that was being shipped?  And, did she get the prescription from an online dr. connected with the pharmacy...like via an online consult?

So many of them are being shut down, however, more still keep popping up.  In only about six months, even being a brand new business, these pharms rake in a TON of money...the docs don't do too badly either.

[taeme]

It was a narcotic, the package what tampered with but she didn't notice it until later. The fed ex people refuse to take the package back and refuse to give her her money order back.  I guess thats illegal.  Anyway she did contact prescriptiononline and they can do anything because the package arrived and was signed for.  So it between her and fed ex now.  Also she did use an online Dr. who said he needs a police report in order to give her another 1 time prescription or early refill.  She filled the report with the police, she can't get in trouble though can she? Cause the whole things legal, valid script, online consult, med records, physical by physician locally(well sort of). I think it was stollen too, either by fed ex personel or maybe the airport people.  I don't know I just don't want to see her get ripped off.

[taeme]

So you have or have not heard of prescriptiononline?

[groovygirl]

Yes, I have heard of them.  I don't want to ask this...but...are you sure your mother is telling the truth about the missing meds?  I'm asking because it is the worlds biggest lie/excuse that addicts tell their docs/pharms,etc that they lost their pills, they got stolen, fell in the toilet, etc...I'm not saying she's an addict or ANYTHING, I'm just asking the question.  Most docs will not take any excuses of any kind anymore.

If that isn't the case, then she has to take file a report stating that she thinks fedex took her meds.  They will have to have the pharm involved with them stating they shipped a full bottle.  She better not have more than one online pharm going at the same time tho...I say this because that is where trouble starts for people, and most people who use these places have more than one consult going at a time.  Once the police are involved, they will look into this - if she's not on the up and up, this situation will quickly turn around on her.  Also, because of all the media attention to these pharms, the police could very well refer this to the DEA or whomever.

I would say because of the paranoia surrounding Lortab ( that is what she ordered right), she will not get another script from this pharm anytime soon.  There are plenty others out there that she can just give her credit card, and have more meds the next day...

[Sundown]

While I haven't heard of that particular online firm, in all likelihood they simply beat her for the money. If it is in a tamper resistant package, fedex employees can't get in without a telltale sign. Ordering nay narcotic online leaves you open to any scam artist out there. After all, who knows who the online doc who did a consult is (even if they are really doctors), the same goes for the "pharmacist". It's awfully easy to create a web site, take advantage of people, and run off. By the way, if she had a legitimate rx, why get it online? While legitimate pharmacies like drugstore.com or even cvs.com exist, they will typically not sell controlled substances because of the difficulties in legitimately complying with feeral and state regulations, so those online pharms that do are working a real "grey" zone.

By the way, got back from my trip this afternoon. Good to see so many new folks starting out here. Today is day 31 for me, and the trip didn't create the "triggers" I was expecting. I used to travel on business and find myself in the hotel room in the evenings "relaxing" with my hydros. This time, I tried to stay busy, and really just used the room to sleep, shower, and dress. So now I feel there is one less obstacle to my continuing my life without drugs, and I can function without having to rely on those "old friends".

Glad to see everyone supporting all the new folks so well. To all those who are new, you have found a place filled with supportive, loving, special people.

Sundown

[taeme]

I can't say for sure, I know thought she filled a police report, she says she only has one online pharmacy and this is the first time she's ordered but that they have been helpful and phoned and emailed also the online doc but I don't know about whether or not she'll get a refill cause I don't think she'll pay the online consult fee again this was supposed to last her for a while.  It was a fed ex plastic envelop whomever cut along the edge on the other side of the opening just bit enough for the pills.  I think if she did have a drug problem she wouldn't have filled a police report, also she would be leary about it if she had more than one pharmacy.

[groovygirl]

Even when I was scamming meds from everywhere, I would still make up crazy excuses for missing meds...I chose to do crazy things to indulge my addiction, even tho I knew the consequences might be really bad.

I doubt she'll get a new script, but one can hope.  If fedex is now ripping open packages to steal drugs, I guess I'll find a new delivery service.

[groovygirl]

Hi Trout...What you said about still feeling like **** after that many days REALLY freaks me out.  How bad exactly do you still feel...you are running, so it can't be all that bad...can it?  

Witchy - I'm SO sorry about your loss...I can see why she was so important to you.  I pictured a little girl looking up to this woman and thanking her for giving her mom back...made me want to cry.  Except that I do not cry anymore...while on bup or any other narcotic, I seem to have no emotions at all.  I've become antisocial and unemotional - completely opposite of the "real" me.

Anyhow, I'm very sorry...I hope your faith can help get you through.  I am looking into covens in my area...been studying a lot.  Take care.

[Witchywoman]

Hi folks,
Is it just me, or does discussion about online pharmacies on this forum seem out of line to anyone else?  

Don't get me wrong. I'm not against online pharmacies.  I am even a member of a board that lists various online pharmacies both domestic and overseas. I moderate the recovery forum on that board. I have ordered buprenorphine from online pharmacies. But I don't discuss that here because that is not what this board is about. I don't want anyone to think I'm a hypocrite.

However, this particular forum, right here, is for people who are trying to deal with recovery from drug addiction.  There a *hundreds* of forums and boards on the internet where this question could be asked. Why bring it here, to a board where people are exploring recovery from drug abuse when you could post it on one of those other boards where it wouldn't potentially be a carrot dangling in front of a newly recovering person dealing with cravings etc?

Most of you guys know me pretty well. I've been hanging out here for two years. I do my best to live and let live.  Maybe it's my grief about the death of my dear friend that is making me feel pissy and less tolerant today. I don't know.  But I really feel that it's potentially harmful to newly recovering people to have this topic go on here. Usually I just shut my trap and let this kind of thing roll of my back.  It's not up to me to make the rules over what is ok or not ok to talk about on this board. That job belongs to Cindy and Phil.  

But still, for whatever reason, PMS, grief over the death of the woman that helped my mother recover from severe alcoholism, and a strong desire to make this a space where people will not be exposed to temptation.......I can't keep my mouth shut about it today.

In my humble opinion, if someone has a question about online pharmacies, it is better to post it on a board that focuses on that topic, not on a board where people are trying to get into recovery.

I am sorry if I"ve offended anyone. That's not my intention. And if I"m the only one with this opinion, I'll keep it to myself from this point on.

Thanks for listening.

I love you all no matter what, and hope you love me even in my pissy state of mind.

WW

[percsnomas]

I just read your first sentence, and it made me think about my freshly out of detox mother-in-law; who said she was really looking forward to this forum....and she went on to say, that was she ever glad she knew nothing about online pharm's(last night after her AA meeting).
Kind of scared me, that she can "have that carrot dangling" so to speak. I definately wouldn't want her to have that "discovery" here, especially in these early vulnerable days.

Tara, i was saddened to read of your recent loss....just know that my arms just reached thru the cmpt and gave you a huge loving hug.

[groovygirl]

Hi - my comments have always leaned very negatively toward online pharmacies, and I feel that they have in this case as well.  I feel so strongly against them that I have written articles that have helped to put some of them out of business.  I'm sorry if my posts bugged you, but I wasn't agreeing with the use of them.

[1st24]

I've been on vicodins for 7 years, starting at only 2-4 a day.  But in the past year and 1/2, since knee replacement surgery, I,m taking 80mg oxycontin, plus 4-8 1omg hydrocodone per day.  I'm just starting withdrawal, have just told my husband the extent of my addiction.  I am very afraid, not only of the withdrawals, but if I'll ever be able to be my former high energy outgoing person again.  I feel a million miles away from that right now.  And feel completely isolated.  I bought most of the ingredients in the recipe.  But is it Vitamin B-6 or B-5?  I bought B-5.  Also, couldn't find L-pyroglutamate.  Help!!

[misd]

Hi I just read your post and it really hits home but I am lucky my husband is helping me. This makes the second time that I have had to detox but this time i am makeing it work, today makes day 6 for me and I feel so much better, actually I started feeling better after day 3. I am so glad to hear that you have a better life now. I know one thing I refuse to let my marriage end over pill's, your husband shouldhave wanted to help you. He hisself should know addiction is an illness and we need to get well . You have made me feel alot better about my situation and I know I can get through this.
take care and god bless you and your family.
Mis

[Witchywoman]

hi 1st24 and welcome to the forum. You've taken some strong first steps and I just want to reassure you that you don't have to go through it alone. Even though we are strangers to each other right now, we know the depths of addiction 'cause we've all been there, so on some level we are connected.

Do you still have chronic pain related to your knee surgery?

If pain is no longer an issue, I can pretty much say that getting clean will indeed give you back your energy. I was so surprised at how much energy I had once I was through detox. I had forgotten what my normal natural energy was like! It is so much better than that false euphoria.  It takes a while to get through this. The worst is over by day 5, and then expect a few weeks of low energy and lethargy. Take the supplements and excercise to help your body make its own endorphins again, and expect to have to deal with insomnia and maybe some depression for a while. But once you are through it, you will have your life back! You can be free.


To everyone: I want to apologize for the pissy tone of my post about online pharmacies. I still have my opinion about them being discussed here, but after I re read my post, I realized that my tone did not contribute to the safe, supportive, and loving environment that I always say this place is supposed to be about. I'm ashamed at myself for the tone that I used and for perhaps creating an emotionally unsafe space by posting in that tone.
Please accept my apology for the way I expressed my feelings. I'm just not myself today, and I should not take it out on you guys. You guys are my bedrock, my core, my friends, and I should have treated you better even if my opinion differed.

thank you.
love,
WW

[smalltown]

I just finished reading today's entire forum.  I'm sure we are all writing from all over the U.S., but it feels like we are the same person.  I have read over and over about the Thomas recipe, but have not received the recipe.  Could someone please post it?  I'm going to try to stay clean this weekend.  I feel so bad when I don't take anything.  I take about 4-5 darvon/day and am running low, so I need to not take any this weekend, so I can get through next week at work.  I much rather feel like hell at home, then at work.  

thanks to all of you who have shared your thoughts with me.  I found this forum last weekend, and find it extremely helpful.  Knowing you're not alone is very comforting.  I am more ready to quit taking drugs than I ever have been, but I am so freaked about the concept of waking up and knowing I have nothing.  It's a state of mind that I've tried before, and eventually cave.  I wrote earlier today and stated that the 1st thing that makes me not want to quit is getting through the holidays.  Can I keep putting this off though, after the holidays, what other excuse will I find.  

Peace to all of you, and please someone post the recipe.  I'll do whatever it takes.  And I forget who wrote about the 1st couple of days, if you lose your appetite.  DEFINETLY!  I have tried to quit a few times, and after 5 days I actually feel good, but then I begin to use the drugs to feel good.  It's a cycle that I've got to break.

have a good night everyone.  Tomorrow is Friday, and that's always good....right?

[taeme]

What the difference between bob's and tom's recipe?

[taeme]

Excuse me but I meant what's the difference between Bob's and Thomas's recipe.

[1st24]

I found the Bob's recipe, and instead of B-6 it said B-5, or panothenic acid. Which one is the right one?  Also, I thought the tyrosine was for bedtime, not morning.  Anyway, I'm in my 40th hour of ct wd's, after 7 years of not missing a day taking some pain-killer.  But lately, I'd gotten up to 160 mg/day, and was always depressed, scared, tired, guilty, and so on.  Even though I'm still going through withdrawal symptoms, I already feel better about myself just trying to do this.  I have the wonderful support of my husband and my little dog, so I feel very fortunate.  I also feel as though I couldn't have made it if I hadn't found this forum.  Thanks to all of you for sharing and responding.  Where do I find L-pyroglutamate?

[Thomas02]

don't now what the L-pro-whatever even is ... and upon rising (empty stomach) you take the L-Tyrosine with 100 mg of B6. Wait 1 hour before having breakfast. The B6 maximizes absorption. You could probably do without the B6, but you need it to get the most out of the L-Tyrosine.

Thomas

[1st24]

Thank you!  I found the L-pyroglutamate in Bob's recipe via Gia in this forum.  Have you (or anyone here) tried St. John's Wort for the depression?  Did it work?  I haven't yet.  I'm actually not doing too badly, just starting day 3 in a couple of hours.  Mostly just sleeping or laying around, or coming here to share and learn.  Thank you again.

[Witchywoman]

Chatahan, bless you and thank you.

I was so embarassed by the tone of my post that I've been afraid to post all day.

I could have said what my opinion was in a less judgemental way, and I hope I did not alienate anyone who needs this site.

I guess I'm allowed to be human and lose my cool now and then, huh?

love,
WW

[gia]

Br Bob's recipe has some of the same ingred. as Thomas's, but includes Deprynal and some other drugs. It is for heroin and severe opiate withdrawel. I found another web site where it is posted and you can also order the ingredients from it as well http://www.restoreunity.org/brain_regeneration_in_heroin_addiction.htm

[hippy]

L-tyrosine 500mg 8 a day week 1 , 4 a day weeks after
b-6 100 mg 2 a day
a strong muli vitamine.
vitamines A  C  AND E
Calsium-magnisum
zinc
manganese
copper
phosphorus
imodium (immodium) for the runs week 1.


lotys of bannas for restless leg
gatoraid for lost electrolites.

[misd]

Morning all, I just wanted to ask a question, I have a bottle of a good multi vitamin here but it is out of date . Would it still be good?  I think if I take the vitamin and drink plenty of orange juice and eat some bananna's it will help, this is day 6 for me and I am still a little low of energy but I feel ok otherwise. The diareha has stopped so I am ready to get my energy back to normal instead of taking over the counter energy meds. any advice will be great.
thanks,
mis

[Sundown]

Vitamins can quickly lose their potency. If it's out of date, and you want to use a multi, I would suggest replacing them with a fresh bottle.

Congrats on Day 6. It's uphill from there!

Sundown

[hippy]

congrats on the clean time , now you have to deal
with the depression, it can be severe, the L-tyrosine and b-6
helps greatly with this problem, also 5htp is a goog supplement
for the depression.
i had a lot of problems in the past with the depression untill
i used these supplements.
peace  and keep posting

[Starraven]

Hippee..I know you posted the recipe already,  and when I was new here I saw your post of the Thomas recipe, but I wasn't sure of how much to use of what ect.  So I hope you aren't upset with me for posting the indepth Thomas Recipe that he provided.  This is just for the newbies that probably haven't found the recipe in the other thread that I posted.  Also, Gia had done some research on withdrawal and had a good recipe as well.

Thomas Detox Recipe

PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas

This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (immodium) (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store & 5http from the health store as an antidepressant/relaxant.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium (immodium) aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you. "
End

P.S..I myself used Melatonin for sleep and Kava kava root also helped me with the skin crawling I had.  Both of these are available at GNC or any other health food store.
GOOD LUCK!
Suze

[misd]

Hi guys thanks for the advice on the vitamin's, I think you are absolutly right about the depression, I need to take something,I have screwed my life up so bad with drug's that we are so behind on our bill's it is pitiful. My husband didn't do anything to deserve this, I did this all on my own, and I have to someway get us out of this mess. He had no idea I wasnt paying the bill's until I got caught and if I hadn't of gotten caught I would still be using. I am so thankful I got caught. I have been keeping myself busy to try to keep from thinking about everything and so far it work's through the day until it is late in the evening and I have nothing else to do but sit and think and cry. I hate that I have done this to myself. Drugs are so evil. I just wish I had of done this sooner. My husband is so good to me, I never had to want for anything. I just have to keep the faith that I can get through this and like you said it is all uphill from here. I know I can do this. I will continue to come to the site and post on my recovery process you all are such inspirations to me. This site has been a god send. Thanks to you all.
love and god bless you all,
mis

[puma]

WW,

I don't think we ever posted to each other in the past. I just wanted to say, I don't think you were too pissy, only firm in helping those in early recovery.

I agree with you that mentioning those pharmacies is a temptation for those seeking or hearing the whispers.

I also wanted to give my sympathies for your loss of your good friend. Your posts are always so upbeat, so you need to vent too once in a while. Don't feel bad about it. You were helping many with your comments on that issue. Take care.

Chatahan........wildcat

[Thomas02]

I'm not eating anything called "wort." I don't care what it does.

Thomas

[Thomas02]

I didn't read your post but I must say that I'm profoundly offended anyway. You could always make it up to me with another bellydancing photo (still remember the last one -- hard to forget). Just the idea of a sexy, bellydancing psychotherapist makes all the neurons in my brain fire all at once.

Thomas

[Witchywoman]

LOL  Thanks for putting a smile on my face.

How's it going with you these days?

WW

[GOD]

"Wort" means "Plant" in most Northeastern European Dialects...

Translated, it is simply "Saint John's Plant"

By the way... I took some really high doses of that drug a few years ago, and while it DOES help with depression, It ALSO gives you some vampire-like afflictions. The worst one being an Inability to be in direct sunshine for more than about 5 minutes. YES, that's right... Go into the sunshine, and you will break out in horrible rashes. AND, It will dialate your pupils as well.

As for Witchy being a belly-dancing psychotherapist, I thought that all psychotherapists engaged in some form of exhibitionism! A few years back, I met a psychotherapist who happened to be an exotic dancer. (By the way, I met her at the strip club, not at her office!)

Have a great time today, Kiddos!

~~~~Jess~~~~

[Thomas02]

All the neurons in my brain are firing contantly. Stimulating, but it's hard to get any sleep.

[puma]

NO-MO,

Congraduations on 26 days clean. That's almost past the 30 day cutoff where the cravings are usually greatly reduced so long as you stay away from your triggers. I am sure your meetings will discuss those as probably the rehab did.

Good luck and take care.

Chatahan.............wildcat

[puma]

Thomas,

So, your brain is pushing the amperage as they call it here?
Good luck.

Chatahan......wildcat

[druggienomo]

This is my first day here. I sure wish I would have read from this site a few weeks ago. I used for 5 years. I was using 15 7.5 Lortabs,and wearing a 100mg Duragesic patch 24/7. The duragesic patch delivers Fentanyl to you via your skin. Sure I got started with a doctor,who was treating my severe headaches, but I loved the High. as you know it takes more and more to get that feeling again,and for the last year, I used just to feel "Normal". I tried to kick 3 times,and never made it past day 2. I was finally confronted by my wife and my faamily,and my office friends. I agreed to go to rehab.
I had no idea it would be that bad. For me it was the Fentanyl that made it so painfull. Fentanyl withdrawl (withdrawal) is the same as using Smack.
I strongly recomend going to a rehab clinic,and not do it yourself. This will help you in case you have convulsions .
Day 3-4 was the worst for me. Day 8/9/10,I was able to take smal walks. I am now clean 26 days,and feel great. Different, but great. It takes a while to get adjusted to life without opiates.
Oh yea, also I see a shrink,and go to outpatient,as well as meetings. If you feel depressed,see a shrink. it really works.
later,
druggie no mo.

[Witchywoman]

Whoa...you actually met a stripper who was also a therapist? A bona fide licensed therapist? Well if that don't take the cake! LOL

Bellydance has been my biggest hobby and source of fitness for over ten years, but I've never considered it a form of exihitionism. I'll have to think about that one!  We in the bellydance community tend to get a bit sensitive about being compared with strippers.  I haven't got a problem with strippers, I just don't happen to be one nor do I have any interest in being one.

Well actually, I do have one complaint about strippers. Most of them can't actually dance very well and they get paid waaaaay more than middle eastern dancers. lol   I've had a few come to my belly dance classes to learn some techniques and quit after a few classes because they said they didn't realize how hard bellydancing is.  It really is physically very demanding. But, I love it. It keeps me in shape and keeps me sane. The worst part of my back pain has been having to cut down on the amount of dance I am able to do.  I still teach and  do dance some but I pay a high price pain wise.

Ok, now that I've made my off topic post for the day I'll retreat again. lol

take it easy,
WW

[Thomas02]

This only hapens when I concentrate on Tara, one of the truly great woman of the world ... I'll probably never meet her, but that doesn't stop me from conjuring a paradise where all women such as WW share and share alike with their male partners, enobling and gentling them without emasculaton or shame.

Of course my offer still stands, WW: If one chilly night you're bothered with cold feet, my toes, feets, legs and thighs are ready to comfort and warm you up.

Your one man caseload,

Thomas