how to wean off oxycontin without a clinic or another drug?

[itsmie]

My husband is trying to wean off of oxycontin. The problem is he can't sleep and just feels bad. Is there any advice you can give me to help him.  He is very determined but gets very frustrated due to the effects of not sleeping.  He is trying cold turkey. Do you think he should use a slow process rather than nothing at all or what is your advice? He doesn't want to see a Doctor and definately not a clinic, I think that is just as bad. Please help anyway you can with some advice. I need to find a way to help him.  He is probably taking about 80mg. a day and is crushing it not just swallowing it.  He really does want some help.

[happytoday]

There is hope!I was about 90-130 MGs a day, but even more in the end. Today, I am 44 days free! It has taken just about this long to feel normal.

However, What is wrong with the help of a Dr or a clinic. I was detoxed in three days using meds which made me totally comfortable.  Now, days 4 thru 20 were no picnic either, but they were bearable with the support of NA and my family.Expect chills, sleeplesness, high anxiety, leg soreness, short-temperedness, etc. But the good news is that it does pass!!!!!

I feel so lucky to have the burden that Oxys can bring on removed from me today!

Good Luck!

[itsmie]

The problem with the clinics around here is they want to just drug you up on methadone so then he will get addicted to that, I've seen it happen to several of our friends.  That is why I said no clinic.  I don't know where to go that won't get him on methadone. That is why I was asking for advice. and the reason I am asking for him is because he doesn't use the computer, I am his wife searching for him to help him. If anyone knows a weaning process, please give me some ideas. Just trying to keep him from getting sick by going cold turkey.

[rodewc]

Clondopine (sp) patch? What is that? Does it help? (and w/ what?) How/why is one perscribed this patch? (if helpful for opiate WD/pain) Is it easy to obtain? Perscription? Expensive? Anyone w/ details, I wld appreciate. Sry to butt in thread, but have read many times @ this patch, but can't piece together details.~~

[vettezr1]

Ok, here goes, I was on IV morphine 3-4 times day, a lot.
I stopped that CT, it sucked. I did take Vic to taper but it was not effective. I did 8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 thats how many a day until off. To be honest I don't know about Oxy but I had Morph WD and then Vic WD, so I am not a big fan of the taper method, maybe he can taper with the Oxy, someone here should be able to help
but to be honest if your looking for a no pain solution I do not know if thats possible.
I take hot showers and Exedrin PM to sleep, he is very lucky to have you to support him, that will be a huge help.

[helpmymom]

My mom has been addicted to pain pills for about 20 years. She has several medical problems, including migraines. But she is determined to get off of them now. She sees what she is doing to our family. My question is...can anyone give us some advice about doing this on her own? If you have reasonable information please e-mail me at ***@****. Thank you

[Hope2beewise]

Can someone PLEASE email me the Thompson Recipe or the recipe that everyone is swearing by.  I am quitting cold turkey and tonight and need all the help I can get tomorrow.  My email address is ***@****.

Thanks In Advance.

David

[jon13]

Does anybody no the diffence between Vicoden ES and Vicoden WD?

[oxic]

Hope: here is the recipe, copied and pasted direct from Thomas:Thomas Detox Recipe

PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas

This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (immodium) (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium (immodium) aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you.
GOOD LUCK WITH THE DETOX, and keep us posted!!



Rodewc :  If you were asking about the  Clonidine Patch, i believe they are called Catapres.  It is a blood pressure medication, and can be a wonderful masking agent against those oh so nasty w/d's(from many substances).  You have to carefully monitor your BP, while on the patch(or clonidine tabs)......making sure you DON'T bottom out your blood pressure.  I'm pretty certain it is obtained by prescription only(but not 100% on that one.....they use clonidine at most of the detox facilities i've seen)  My mother in law, that fairly recently detoxed off vikes/ coke/xanax/booze, said  clonidine was her life line......really took the edge off.  It was free at the detox facility here....so i don't know the real cost.

Hope that helps a lit'l!!

percs

[rodewc]

Yes, that helps. Would it be for hi or low BP?

(I take Atacan.16 and ATenlol.50 , one tab/ea/day) Thx~

[oxic]

For high blood pressure.

In fact, when at the detox place, my MIL would have her BP taken prior to any doseage; if it wasn't high enough, she wouldn't get the dose.  To make sure she got one however, she'd go outside and smoke a cig with record speed......just to help her BP up a lit'l/lot.

[kilo]

First I would like to apologize for some of the excesive drama or hurtful comments that you may have come across on these boards. All of us here are going through some stage of addiction or recovery, and at times things get said that should stay off the keyboard. With that said, I will try to address some of your concerns.

Itsmie - It's nearly impossible, without medical intervention to go through opiate withdrawal without discomfort. The severity of withdrawal is dependent on many factors...length of habit, severity or dosage of habit, drug of choice (long acting -vs- short acting agents), etc. Even with medical intervention there will be some degree of discomfort involved. Various medications can be prescribed to lessen the symptoms associated with withdrawal. The physical portion of withdrawal is usually intense and short-lived. By short-lived it usually subsides within 5-7 days, depending on drug of choice. Opiate withdrawal is not life-threatening, but underlying severe medical problems can complicate the process. Many describe the withdrawal process as a super flu...body aches, restless legs, insomnia, runny nose, the runs, yawning, sneezing, depression, etc. Believe me quitting is easy, staying sober is the hard part. You have already helped your husband immensely by standing by him and being supportive. For many, the mental part is the real challenge. Intense cravings, dreams of using, and irrational thought after the physical withdrawal has passed can lead one back to picking up again. Most research has shown that these symptoms are real intense in the first 30 -60 days after physical withdrawal. Everyday it becomes a little easier. Usually after 6 months, thoughts of using are rare 2-3 minute intense periods per day. Of course, everyone is different so this is just a rough guideline. Be aware that the process of getting clean is usually not a single event. Many, including me have tried several times before success. I don't write that as an excuse, but as a warning that picking up again can happen. Best advice is to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get back on that horse. There are many on these boards who can help you and your husband through this. Although I have little experience with AA or NA or even some non-12 step methods, many swear by them in staying clean. Good luck and post here often.  

Helpmymom - It would be helpful to know what drug and dosage your mom is taken. There are several variables that can effect withdrawal. A little more info would be helpful. There's a wealth of information that can be obtained from those who post here. Hope to hear from you soon.

Jon13- Vicodin ES (extra-strength) is 7.5mg of hydrocodone, usually with 500mg of Tylenol. Vicodin WD or W/D, stands for vicodin withdrawal. It's just usually easier to type w/d, instead of withdrawal. Hope that helps.
Peace

Kilo

[earlygrayce]

kilo and john - i just wanted to say that in my experience with vicodin es, and i have had quite a bit as well, it has always been 7.5mg of hydrocodone with 750mg of tylenol. lortab 7.5 was always the pill with 7.5mg of hydrocodone and only 500mg of tylenol. just wanted to put my 2 cents in even though i may be wrong. hope everyone is doing well and some of the tempers have cooled off.

[mrmichael67]

Vicoden ES is 7.5/750.

[itsmie]

Thanks to those who have given their support and ideas. As a matter of fact he did try before to quit and did go back but is determined again to quit.  Hopefully he will be able to beat this addiction this time. I am determined to help him as much as possible. hopefully my support will help him.

[mrmichael67]

A good thing for your husband to do would be to get in touch with an addiction doctor.  An addiction doctor is about the only way besides a 21 or 60 day methadone detox that will make it the most bearable.  The suggestions all listed here are excellent if he were to choose to do it at home cold turkey.  That is doable.  An addiction doc would most likely put him on buprenorphine and bring him down with that.  Those are basically your options.  Even though it is never without discomfort, it is much, much less when done medically.  It just takes a little while longer.

[momdotcom]

I'm seeing a lot of characteristics of my husband here.  He has been addicted to hydrocodone for a long, long time.  Years.  His dr. does not know it because he plays the "Dr. Game" and the "Pharmacy Game" , paying for the pills out of pocket so as not to call attention via insurance claims.  He switched to Oxycontin about a year ago and since then things have been worse than ever.  Where I hated the way hydro. made him act (cocky, arrogant, insatiable sex drive), oxy makes him moody and he's actually raged on me for the first time in our 9 years of marriage.  He goes through a month of script in 10 days, and then becomes physically sick (diarreah, lethargic, flu-like) and ALWAYS says it's the flu or food poisoning even though I call him on it constantly!  I can see the pattern as if it were written in front of my face:  runs out of oxy, goes to other doc for hydro, then runs out of that and goes on ultram for a few days, but on ultram he barely gets by until he completely runs out, then sick, sick, sick.  He's sick right now, and says it's not the pills (he claims he's still got some left but he won't ever let me see where he keeps them).  He says he has a bladder infection that's making him sick. I am fed up, our family is totally run by this addiction.  What should I do?  Should I turn him in to our doc?  He says if I do that it's the ultimate betrayal, and he does have legitimate pain.  HELP!

[kris441]

I uderstand all the concerns of taking methodone to get off of oxycotin,but I must admit if it weren't for starting at a methodone clinic there isn't any way I would have been able to get off of them.I was on oxycotin for about 3 years staight and done tylox & hydrocodone before being introduced to oxy's.I wanted off of them so bad but as soon as that familiar feeling started taking control I couldn't handle it I have 2 children & feeling that bad makes you so iritable you really can't stand yourself let alone anyone else.I had laid in the floor under a ton of covers in front of the fireplace freezing but then I would burn up,not to mention vomiting till it felt like it was going to rip out your throat,diarea (diarrhea) so bad you would almost have to stay in the bathroom,no possible way you could even sleep,you couldn't stand to lie still for even 1 minute,shaking hurting,ect.we all know the agony.I just thank god i found out about the methodone clinic it was realy the best stap I ever made in my life.the only thing alot of people don't concider is how hard it is to be around friends that still do drugs.I have stayed away from all the people i used to accotiate with because they have kept offering me drugs & most of them laugh & make fun of anyone going to the clinic,but they "ALL" have came around eventially asking if I would hook them up with some methodone.The first thing I told them is yeah and gave them the phone # to the clinic,nowwho's laughing.Eveeyone is different,some may do fine cold turkey or weaning off,but I know the torcure of all of it and  i went for the methodone and I haven't done drugs for almost 2 years.it all depends on the person and how serious they are,if they really want to quit they can,they just have to do what is right for them

[theGolden1]

I think if you guys hooked up with a kool doctor, he could really help your husband. There are addictionologists that will make a plan with your husband based on his goals, and his expectations. And I do believe a new aproach to your husband,s problem is the thing to do. The pain management doctor. It busy to try to find out what all thses things are about. Good Luck
                                             Let us know
                                           how it goes ...      
                                              Love and Joy
                                                                                                       ***@****

[justmaggie]

My friend is weaning off of oxycontin with some clinical help but we are doing this at home.
we are wondering just how long the process takes, what are the withdrawal expectatioins and affects.

what will he go through as far as body process ie... sweats, cold and flue type affects, muscle cramps, stomache problems and so on.

he has now been off for 51 hours and how long will it take till he is drug free and not feel the withdrawal affects?  he was taking 10 mlg twice a day or one 10 mlg with an Oxy IR in the evening.

any information as to expectations would help greatly

[justmaggie]

HELP.....  my friend is weaning off of OXY and we don't know what to expect..... or what is normal.  he is not 51 hours without and we have no idea what to expect here.....


he is on cloidine patch and diazepan to help but what should he expect as withdrawal effects.

[justmaggie]

Kilo
have read a lot of your post and you seem to know quite a lot about this all....  my friend is coming off oxy by his choice and reduced himself down to 20 mg a day from 320 mg a day almost a year ago.....  however he does have RSD and there must stay on his nueronton.... will this affect his side effects fromt he withdrawal?  

what is the normal time frame for the physical withdrawals signs to disapate?  he is on clondine and diazophan to help with the withdrawal but is experiences the runs and a bad headache.....

can he take asprin and imodine safely?
thanks for any help you can give us.....

[kilo]

Hey maggie - I will try to spell out the physical withdrawal (w/d) symptoms for you, as best I can.
First and foremost - Opiate w/d by itself is not life-threatening, although it can complicate any underlying serious medical conditions a person may have (Severe uncontrolled hypertension, anxiety/panic disorders, etc).
So it won't kill you, but you'll feel like you wanna die.
Physical withdrawal is usually self-limited and runs it course in approx. 5-7 days.
Many describe it as a "super flu"...body aches, restless legs, cramps, the runs, nasal drainage, sneezing, yawning, perceived temperature changes (hot as hell, then the chills), depression, anxiety, etc... :<(
You feel completely drained, absolutely no energy. This typically lasts for several days or weeks, but gets a little better everyday.
Withdrawal symptoms usually start about 6-12 hours after last dose for short-acting opiates, and approx. 12-24 hours for long-acting opiates (oxycontin). If your friend crushes or snorts Oxycontin it becomes a short-acting opiate. Keep in mind that these are ballpark figures and much depends on length of habit, severity of habit and type of opiate used.
Quitting is the easy part...staying that way is the tough battle. The mental or neurological aspects of opiate addiction are very complex, but that's a whole different subject.
There are many well informed, caring individuals on this forum who can help you and your friend throughout this battle.

A word of advice...next time you post, pick the top post and ask for some advice from up there. Don't worry about posting under a subject or question that doesn't pertain to your situation, a lot of folks don't read the responses this far down the forum. Sorry if I missed anything, and I hope this helps. Take care.  Peace

Kilo

[Sandus]

Hey there all. I am a 37 year old male and have been on the upswing of pain meds for about 6 years or so. At current I am on an OC dose of 80mg every 8 hours, oxyfast dose of 20mg twice every 12 hours(for breakthrough pain), and 1 mg xanax nightly(to help me sleep). I will admit I have gone over the given dose a few times as I just had a new injury. I have ran out early and can't get back to Dr. for another week(when I was supposed to get refilled). I hope someone here can help with the withdrawl I am going though as it is getting unbearable. The constant leg twitches, inability to get comfortable, and not being able to sleep is about to drive me mad! As if that weren't enough, I have called in sick to work the last 2 days. Any advice from someone who has experienced this problem would be greatly appreciated. Thanks,
-Sandus-

[vettezr1]

No real experiance with Oxy but I think all this **** is pretty much the same. Think of it as the flu on steriods.
The real problem I had when I stopped was the chronic pain that made me take this **** in the first place came back with a vengance. It did and has lasted for weeks now, the chronic pain not the WD symtoms, the first week I was pretty weak and sick mega flu symtems. but then I got a lot better, I can eat work out last a whole day and can tell you I honestly even with the pain feel a lot better, the durgs just stopped working anyway and I was just taking them to not get sick. If I was forced to stop like you and had to go through WD's I would not go back on this stuff. I know about the pain but if you can find a way to deal with it you will be better off. The pain meds will eventually stop working anyway. And the higher you go the worst it gets.

Good luck.

[Sandus]

Thanks for the input. I don't know that I have the ability to stop all together as the chronic pain I have has been going for about 6 years now and without the meds I am unable to walk or even get out of bed. As for the "sickness", I'm sure that plays a part in my mind as to why I don't just give them up also. My wife doesn't seem to understand the pain factor, just that she sees me "hooked" on a drug and seems to think I should be able to stop them any time I wish. I'm on about day 5 now so if you know what the detox cold turkey time frame is please let me know. I let her read your post and she didn't believe me when I said the wd was like the flu times 1000. After she read what you said I think she knows I'm not just making this mess up. Anyway, I'll check back in to see if you or anyone else has any tips as to how to deal with the wd or the pain issues here. Thanks again. ttyl.
-Sandus-

[vettezr1]

Dude, think about it 5 days, you are over the hump the worst is behind you, everyday will get better from here.
Pain sucks I know, I have broken my back 3 times, leg pain ass pain foot pain you name it. But I can tell you those first 5 days really sucked from the WD. You really should start feeling better, you did not say what type of pain. I am trying Vioxx but it really does not do **** after morphine. But hey it wont turn me inside out when I stop it. Yea tell the wife the WD's were like being run over by a truck every 2 minutes, but I did live.
One thing you should keep in the back of your mind, The Narcs will loose there effectivenes, they will stop working and you will have pain and be sick as ****. Like the old saying if I knew then what I know now I would never have gone down the pain killer path. I use exedrin PM to sleep a bit and take lots of vits, I always have. But can't do much to stop the pain.
I work out and stretch, but it really does not help. You just have to decide what type of pain you want to live with, it sucks but what are the options, sick from the meds sick from the pain.
Decison time. Good luck.

[Sandus]

Hey there again. Sad to say I didn't make it. I got some oxycontin and feel like an idiot for not following your advice. I don't know what I would have felt like today if I had stayed off of the **** but it wasn't looking good. I posted another question today about tapering myself off. Thanks for the replies and if you have any input to my new idea, please let me know.
-Sandus-

[Stone-B]

Hey guys. I'm on hour 30 of detoxing off of oxycontin. It's hell but just look at the alternatives you can live day-2-day looking for the next pill or try to grab what's left of your life back. I'm doing it cold turkey all i have is aspirin and benadryl and vitamins. My best advice is to drink as much fluids as possible so as to start flushing out the system. Also physical activities are a plus so as to sweat out the toxins and it will help with the restlessness and insomnia that comes at night especially. Besides that u have to settle in and ride it out and do not succomb to the craving of picking up one more pill cause your on your way just finish it!! Good Luck Guys.

            Sincerely Bryan

[Melissa Matchett]

Ive been suffering an oxy addiction for a couple of years now and Ive quit on my own but ive also been to detox 4 times in the past year and everytime for the oxys...but what kept bringin me back to them was who i hung around with and personal matters in my life...but the first time i went i was 100% clean until i hit the 6 month wall..dealin wit my problems was wit the o's. I would 100% recommend detox tho for someone comin off of the oxys through my personal experiences doin it on my own and goin to detox... detox was for sure the way to go...they give u medication u need only when u need it so yes u r in some pain but its NOTHIN like doin it on ur own..  detox also educates u on not only opiates but other substances as well... i know i sound like a hypocrite but detox is the best way to go...I would also recommend an addictions counsellor as well... i go to one and it does help

[wantlifeback]

this is an old thread from 2003 so you need to go back the first page and post your questions and there are really wonderful people here that will answer you and help you. I did the same thing when i first started on this site.  if you have trouble let me know.  thanks

[girlscout]

I'm so glad I found this forum.  I had no idea what I was getting into when I went on the oxys, contin and codone.  I want very badly to get off and started 10 days ago.  The nausea is wicked, I'm wearing the nausea wristbands which seem to help a lot.

I'm now on 10 mgs. in the a.m. and 10mgs. in the p.m. 2 days away from stopping the p.m. dose.  I'm afraid to do it, seeing how awful this is.  Like you say, super-flu!!
I'm still taking the percocet 4 times a day.  That is labeled 5/325, no mgs. listed, so I don't know how much that is.

I'm planning to stop taking the percocet after I see my pain management doc for a Facet block next week.  To heck with the pain, this oxy stuff is horrible....never again.  Anyone asks me if they should use it for pain I'll probably start screaming and run away!!

I still don't know what's right for me yet.  After reading all the posts here, at least I feel better mentally, knowing I'm not going to die or such.  Will ask the pain doc about it though.

Thank you everybody for asking questions and those with the answers.  So good of you to come forward and help those of us who desperately need it.  Now I'm addicted to this forum!!

[flmagi]

Welcome to the forum, but your posting on a very old thread and won't get as many reponses to your post. If you go to the top and click "post a question", then retype your story (or copy and paste), more people will read and respond.  Hang in there and you've found a great place for support and information.

[sandee1818]

This is what worked for someone in your sit,
Since he was chewing them, Have him give you the pills and give him 1 every 10-12 hrs and make sure he swallows whole. Do this fo 3 days then start making the pill last 18 hours and this is for 2 days then make the pill last all day so he should be at 1 pill per day by now and then every other day and keep decrasing the pills every three days so by months end he should be pretty well tapered off. then keep weaning him off by streatching the days in between until its comfortable to stop. This takes about two mths but well worth it as the wd will be tolerable. My friend wastaking a ver large dose daily and got down to none w/o much discomfort.

[monkey231]

OK,  I need advice from someone.  My boyfriend and I are both addicted to percs/OCs/Dilodid(however its spelled) and it ruining our lives.  We have to stop and we cant.  I dont know what to do.  We both hate being addicted to this stuff.  I feel like a junky, he feels like a junky, but we cant stop.  I hate it.  Whenever we try to stop we feel like ****.  My legs ache, I get real sweaty, but Im freezing cold, I cant get comfortable, I cant sleep, I cant breath, I get irritable, and I cant function like a normal person.  I just want to be normal again, I want my life back.  I have a son, and I cant be a good mom when Im addicted to pills, and my boyfriend cant be a good dad either.  We're broke because we spend all our money on pills.  Both of us really really really want to stop this.  Someone please help me.  If anyone knows any way to get off of this stuff without feeling like Im going to die, please help me.  This is ruining my life.  I want to be a happy family agian, and we both try so hard.  If we dont stop we're gonna lose our house, our son, and everything else.  My family is the most important thing to me.  I feel like I should be able to just stop for my family, but I cant, and its making me feel like a horrible person, and I dont want to feel like this any more.  Please help me.

[bmc1976]

You should post your own thread. Doing that will dedicate that post just to you. At the top of the page just click on "post a question". You will get so much support from everyone on here.

[hooniered]

Could someone tell me how long it takes for norco to be out of your system, so that it would not show up on a urine test for drugs?

Hooniered

[kat858]

I am starting my detox tonight and need all the support I can get. I have 3 kids and they are pretty much up there when it comes to priorities in my life. I know I have a problem when I think OK what comes first my kids or an OC. I am starting to feel the anxiety of stopping and hope that I will be able to function while coming down. I need all the support i can get. this forum helps a lot.


thanks
k

[broknbck]

I can relate to him not wanting to go to a doctor. I would like to never see another one in my life time.

For the sleep problem. I have taken Benadryl over the counter. It is for allergies but it will knock you right out. Bad thing about it is you usually feel pretty groogy the next day. Not sure if it is addicting but then it's probably not a good idea to use anything every nite because you want to eventually do it on your own right.

Melatonin is a herb that works for some too. I had to take 12 mg to put me to sleep.

[marylou00]

Its nice to see, Im not alone. Im a 38 year old mother that had my neck fractured twice a year apart back in 94 and 95 didnt get started on the vicodin until about 2002 as the pain kicked in and graduated to the oxys about 4 years ago. Now Im taking 2 80mg oxy's a day and 2 vicodin 1000mg a day for breakthrough pain. And I want off so bad. But I cant afford to take the amount of time off of work to go through the detox phase and am afraid I will loose my job if someone finds out. Im embarrased to have to take this amount of presciptions for the pain. But this is what it has come too. I too, from time to time have taken more than prescribed a day becasue of the pain and have ran out and ended up sitting in an emergency room to get a few vicodin until my next dr. appt to get my refill. Im tired of living this way. There are days when my pain is so bad all I can do is cry and thats being on the meds. And then there are other days that I wonder if I wouldnt have any pain at all being off oxy and even needed the meds. But I cant stop taking them becasue I go through the with drawals and it gets too miserable to want to stop. And what if I do quit and I do still have that horrible amount of pain and cant do without taking the meds. Then what? I will be out of my meds in 2 days and dont get my script until 7 days. I want to take this time now to try and quit. I have read your advice and want to talk to my dr. about one of the detox meds klondine or seboxin that I read someone talk about on another site. Can anyone here give me any advice on the seboxin meds? Im not sure if thats how its spelled. Any advice would be appreciated. I want help and want off..........

[sadinmichigan]

Hi there ..welcome to the forum...There is a ton of support here..I just wanted to let you know that this is a very old thread..the best thing you can do is post a new question(go to top where it says Post a question...you will get lost in this old thread...
clonodine does help with w/d symptoms a bit..
Suboxone is a drug you should use only for a very short time if you want to detox off the pain meds..have you ever tried to go cold turkey??

[marylou00]

I have only tried Cold Turkey when I have been out, not by choice. The flu-like symptoms and all the, sickness that ocurred and having to call out sick from work, was enough to scare the **** out of me, so as soon as I got my script refilled I was back on them again. Right now, it looks like Im going to be faced with going cold turkey again, I am going to try and get in to see my family physian on Monday to see if he can help me with getting a detox script to start the process of getting off these meds. He is the dr. that referred me to this pain management that started me on all these meds to begin with. I assume I am going to have to call in to work and tell them something, but am scared to death to tell them the truth, all though I feel innocent, and feel like this was not my fault. I cant help that I got on the meds due to my pain, and didnt know  that I would end up hooked on them for this long. I really want to try now and get off. Im even planning to talk to my parents today to ask there advice and advise them my situation they have no idea, but Im hoping they will help me in going in the right direction and then with them knowing, I will have them helping me through this. And wont have a choice but to go through with this. I am just scared of loosing my job. I am in management at my company and have been for almost 10 years. Im scared this could damage my career. My company does offer programs for this, but do I really want them to know. Will they look at me like I am a drug addict that took these pills just to get high? I dont get high from them, they do help with my pain, but Im tired of living on them and having to depend on them to get through every day as soon as I wake up. Thank you for responding to me, I didnt expect anyone too, so Im glad you did. You helped someone today more than you know.  

[sadinmichigan]

I know that cold turkey *****..I did it myself off of hydros and off methadone..if you could get a week off to deal with this you would probably be able to go back to work..how much are you taking a day? Many here have went cold off of oxys and hydros..some of them up to 20+ a day..You can do this..
I would think if you really tell your employer what has happened..they should understand..this is an epidemic..and many people have gotten trapped by the pain meds because of legit pain and surgeries..
How long have you gone without before?? i can give you some idea of how you'll feel..and it is like a real bad flu..There are vitamins/supplements that you can take as well..there is the Thomas recipe which is in the health pages here...also my journal has something similar..although I direceted it towards those dealing with methadone...it applys to all..feel free to pm (private message) anytime..i would be happy to help ou in anyway I can..I will be here for the weekend....I definitley know what your going through..You will get through this girl!! just hang on and get it over with...Lisa

[marylou00]

I have only went 3 days in the past a few months ago, Im currently taking 2 oxys a day 80mg and 2 vicodins a day, 1000mg. I know I can do this, I have always been a strong person and am determined to be now. And I know you understand thats why I appreciate your help. I only have a few pills left as I mentioned and I get so angry, I just want to flush them and try to do it, Im just dreading the pain. I do want to wait and try and get the help of some type of detox med. Anything that will help me get through the w/d's to see if I can manage the pain on my own. I did in the past. I didnt take any pain meds until 7 years after my accient occurred. so I know I can do it. Yes, the pain has increased since then, that was the reason for increasing teh pain meds. But I also thnk the increase had to do with the strength just not working anymore due to becoming addicted. This is horrible isnt it? It makes you just want to scream out to the world not to ever take one of these pain meds and to try and get through the pain through other options. But I appreciate your advice and will be heading to the drug store later today to stock up on some vitamins and ask the pharmacists for some advice on what types to try maybe. I carry such a guilt feeling going through this, I try and raise my kids with all the rights and wrongs and feel like I got trapped in something that I am trying to teach them to run away from if it was ever around them. Well again, thank you Lisa and i will read up on the Thomas recipe, go figure thats one of my boys names. Maybe thats a sign some good is coming out of this. Ive gotta get ready to head out to take my kids to their grand mothers for the holiday but will check back in later. And im not much of a computer geek, but Ill try and figure out how to reach ya pm later. Again, thank you so much.

[sadinmichigan]

I am glad you are doing this...You sound like you have the desire and that is key to all of this,..as far as writing me..or anyone else..if you hover over my name it will give you an option to send me a not..message..or add as a friend....or you can click on my name and at the top right of my page will say the same things...have a great day and i look forward to talking to you...

[shady55]

My suggestion to "ween off oxy" is the method that I used. First of all, yeah having "5-7 days of nothing to do" is great and all, but I guess for me that is the worst case scenario. I would rather be outside doing something, taking my mind off the pain of withdrawls. That way the day passes by a lot faster and you are extremely tired from doing things all day. So, workout, go running, play catch, go hike, bikeride, anything you can think of to get yourself going. Plus , they release edorphins which makes you feel great and get "high" naturally. Its great. But for 80mg a day of oxy, my advice is to wake up, and be active. And pick a time that you know you need to take it by, say to yourself... Ok... Im going to try and not take anything until at least Noon, and when noon hits, snort a bump and maybe take a whole 40, or half a 40 crushed. Then throughout the rest of the the take a bump or two snorted. This way, you taper off gradually. There is a whole routine about this, but it works. Figure it out yourself, if you can pick a time to hold out until, do it. And try snorting little amounts every hour or so. Instead of just taking 40 in the morning and 40 at night. It is much easier this way. Keep active, eat right, stay healthy, ween off correctly. Works for me!

[Jay3478]

I have been through all of the opiates and the withdrawals from each as well.  Currently, I take< I promise this to be the truth, 30-40 40mg Oxycontin everyday.  Mostly, I shoot them so the effect will be instantaneous.  When I wake up, I'm soaked with sweat, sneeze violently and uncontrollably, get the runs, throw up, and almost want to scream from the pain.  My chest will start to feel sharp pains and I can hardly move because of the stomach cramping.  I have tried the methadone clinics and the soboxone, but neither tyhe clinic nor the doctor believed how much I took and, therefore, was not given a high enough dose.  I can go through, with ease, 50 dilaudis in a day, injecting 8-10 at a time.  Obviously, I have a ridiculously high tolerance, and it is impossible for me to make it through even one day of withdrawal.  I have tried valium, as well, and it failed miserably.  I have finally found some methadone pills and plan on strarting a regimen tomorrow morning to quit.  The only advice I can give for those going through the withdrawals or the family members of those going through them, is to stay strong.  Families need to be supportive and understand that the first four days are almost inhumanly tolerable so be supportive, but leave them be.  For those going through the withdrawals, you need to understand that nothing is going to feel good for the first weak.  Calling it a "superflu" is a ridiculous understatement.  I describe it to people by telling them to remember the last time your foot fell asleep.  When it starts to wake up, you have pins and needles that literally paralize your leg for a few seconds.  Picture your entire body feeling those same pins and needles but twenty four hours a day, for five days.  Add in the sweats, the chills, vomiting, diahrea, sneezing, runny nose, muscle aches, sleeplessness, electric-like shocks, cramping.  Plus, for those who think you cannot die from opiate withdrawals, you are mistaken.  Your body can go into something that is very similar to cardiac arrest and you can very easily die from it.  This is no laughing matter and if you can make it through, don't ever take another pain killer as long as you live.  It is not worth going through all of this again is it?  Oh...and no, you can't control it!!  I was highly addicted to pills a few years back and, at the height of my addiction, was shooting six eighty mg oxy's four or five times a day, plus ten dilaudids, at least seven times a day.  I ended up getting arrested and had to detox, cold turkey, in jail.  When I got out, I tore my quadricep playing softball and was prescribed Lortab tens.  Then...I broke my elbow in four places and was in the hospital on morphine.  Since I was hurt, I justified my use of the painkillers and....guess what?  I'm right back where I was a few years back.  Before I realized it, I was addicted to opiates, using 30-40 40mg oxy's everyday.  There is no reason in the world to take opiate painkillers if you have a problem with addiction.  It will destroy your life, just like mine.  I am now spending over four hundred dollars a day, just to feel normal.  Don't be like me...It's not cool!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tryinghard204]

I found out I was pregnant a week ago I went from 60-90mg a day to 30mg of oc a day. I want to get off of it completely before its too late. I'm about 6wks. pregnant. Every day i have been trying to go down 5mg. I was just wondering If you knew anything about tapering and pregnancy?

[badidea]

I want to wean myself off of oxycontin> I am taking 80 mil a day time release..2 40mils in morning 2 at night.... per my *** of a doctors orders..Had no idea what I was taking. I cannot afford to call out sick to do this!!  Any help would be appreciated. I wish I knew then what I know now!!!!!!!! Also has anyone expierienced hair loss on this **** I had a full head of hair now looks like I am getting a bald spot wtf!!!!! will it grow back???

please help

[badidea]

I have been on the med for 7 months

[ykcim]

on the 26 may 07 my father passeed away in my arms offf a massive heart atack, 3 days later i was driving home from arranging his funeral when a guy suffering bi polar disorder crashed in the back of my car at 130 kph trying to kill himself i was left massive injuries, broken back, smashesd pelvis, and a million other things, i missed my dads funeral and that hurts so so much. anyway they put me on oxycontin 80mg 2x a day and oxynorm for break thru pain. i want to get off this S@#t can any one please help. it takes away the pain off loosing my dad aswell as my pain. please some one help....michael

[headache32]

I am in the process of weaning off Oxycontin at home under the supervision of my neurologist.  I have a condition called Occipital Neuralgia that causes constant, chronic, debilatating headaches.  I have been on full disability leave from my job since the end of May.  I had nerve decompression surgery 2 wks 2 days ago (aug 12).  Before surgery and after surgery, I was taking 40 mg 3x per day.  About one week after surgery, which the doctor removed a bunch of scar tissue and nerve impingement connective tissue.  My occipital nerve also has extra branches for some unknown reason, genetics maybe.  But I feel better after the surgery.  I do NOT look forward to weaning off the Oxycontin.  One week after surgery, I saw the neuro.  She cut me back from 40 mg 3x per day to 30 mg 3x per day.  After 2 weeks, I am supposed to cut back to 30 mg 2x per day.  Then I go back to see her.  I'll probably get cut down to about 10 mg tabs, not sure how many times  a day, but slow enough to wean.  

Today I had a bad incident.  Last night I took my evening dosage of Oxycontin 30 mg, Klonopin 2 mg, and Zanaflex 8 mg at about 8 - 8:30 pm.   This morning when I woke about at about 8:15 am, for some odd reason, I did not take my morning meds.  As the morning wore on, I started to get sicker and sicker.  By 1:30 pm, I was having the shakes, cold and hot sweats, diarreah, nausea, muscle cramps, aches, crying/teary, stuffy nose, flu x 100.  I thought food poisoning or something.  I wanted to die.  I usually take my 2nd daily dose at 2 pm.  I was late today, so I took it at 3.  But much to my shock, when I looked at my pill dispenser/seperator thing, I saw that I missed the am dose.  Then I immediate knew I was drug sick.  I wanted to die!  I took one 30 mg Oxycontin and a 4 mg Zanaflex, an Aleve and my thyroid med.  I waited in bed for one hour, praying to God to make this pain stop.  I was so scared.  The 30 mg wasn't working.  So I took the other 30 mg dosage that was due at 3pm, at 4pm.  Once the drugs finally sunk into my system, I felt WAY better.  I will never make that mistake again.

I sure hope I can wean off at home with the supervision of my doc.  I read about the cold turkey method.  I have a scrip for Klonopin (and Xanax), so I can chill in bed for a few days after the last of the Oxycontin is discontinued.  I know I will be at least a little bit sick even with a low dosage,

I am so grateful to read all of the information available on this message board.  I wish everyone well.  

Thank you.
j

[joann1975]

Welcome to the forum...this is a great place for support and info. However, you have posted on an old thread and this is very likely to get over looked...if you will click back to forum and the click on post a question and repost this starting your own thread you will get all kinds of support and information there. (if you want to save time cut & paste your original question)

Thanks,
JoAnn

[peep99]

Hello people -- Wow, im happy to have found this site. I'm looking for support and or just someone to share my shameful secret, that im dependent on oxycontin.  I am a health care worker too, which makes me more ashamed. I too am in the process of weaning myself off oxycontin. I’ve been on them about 3 years, (for chronic neck pain) and I am just sick of feeling like **** every day. Last week, I started weaning. (I had been taking up to 100 mg per day of oxycontin (5 - 20 mg tabs) I’m on day 6 of the weaning - and I am already down to 2 – 20 mg tabs per day and + approx 30 mg oxycodone)  This is very difficult. Today day I feel exhausted and increased neck pain too.

Does anyone know of anything nutritionally that would help me feel better, or any other pain pills (non opiate) that would be helpful?  I've heard tramadol may be a good one to use instead...

I found this site, and it’s been helpful reading other peoples experiences. I see that some people use methadone and or saboxone.  I thought I would try this myself first, and if I go back to my old ways, I then would try to get help using other things to get off the oxys.

I’m nervous about the withdrawals, but it’s been a week, that I’ve been able to cut back. I am afraid that I may not make it. Like I might decide to increase my dose, because I can.
I have found that writing down the times and the mg I take while weaning helps me.

Any feed back is appreciated.

Thank you.

Peep

[Cupp78]

Hey Peep...maybe you should start a new thread.  You will probably get better responses.  But, here is some good news.  You CAN beat this and feel good again...feel like your old self.  I was a 350+ mg a day user and I quit cold turkey 39 days ago.  I feel great today.  I still think about using sometimes, but I don't.  I also have chronic pain.  I have had a 3 level spinal fusion and could use that as an excuse to keep ruining my life and killing myself.  But I have a family I love and a dad who ruined his life and lost his family because of his addiction.  The cycle will stop with me.  I used the amino acid protocol ( down on the right side of the page), prayed a lot, and went to NA meetings.  I tried to quit many times before...but until I got totally sick and tired of being sick and tired, and found NA, it didn't work.  You CAN do this.  Let go of the guilt and focus on the positives...you are going to change you life for the better.  Feel free to message me if you have any questions or just want to talk.

[AquaDub]

I see this thread is kind of old but, and I do see that the "without another drug" was mentioned, but I  figured id put in my two cents nonetheless.

I've worked in pharmacy for a couple years and have seen a variety of medications prescribed for helping people wean off of opiates. Obviously, methadone is a common one, though like someone had mentioned earlier, you're basically just replacing one opiate with another. Another option I see on occasion is a drug called Suboxone.

Suboxone IS a controlled substance, so there is still a risk of dependance and abuse with it, but it isnt as addictive as methadone itself or whatever opiate you're trying to wean off of.
http://www.suboxone.com/

       A third option I see on occasion, and which I may use here shortly (I had a Intramedullary rod surgically implanted in my right humerus due to a severe break recently and have been on oxycodone for a while now) is Clonidine. Clonidine is a cheap generic drug (Brand name Catapres) typically used for hypertension, though it also blocks certain receptors in the brain that deal with both alcohol and opiate withdrawl. Clonidine is non-narcotic and there is no risk of abuse or dependance; so if you're looking for a route to take other than going cold turkey or just switching to a weaker opiate, this would definately be the one to ask about. Also you would probably deal with zero hassel from the Doc if you're honest about why you need it.

[littla]

I just started to read all your comments and want to say Thank-you to every one for careing enought about others to communicat with members that can use you for support. Your words are helping me throught some personal stuff. Thanks again.

[littla]

I have a wounderful husband, and two great boys. I have been on hydrocodone for over a year (started getin from people that had it after i was in a bike crash). I all ways have it. If i don't i find it.My family don't know but my husband says i'm sort tempered all the time and i know it from the hydro.Can some one tell me the best way to get clean from them with out a doctor? I still need the energy to take care of my family. That is the only reason i like them for the energy. How long will w/d last I take about 4 a day on average.Please help i want to be free of this mess without my family wondering what is wrong with me as i'm going through w/d.

[theLbizzie]

I have read the majority of the posts on this thread. the detox recipe being by far the most helpful. I take about 60 to 90 mg of oxy per day and have been doing so for about 4 months. there have been two major reasons why Ive been unsuccessfull In quiting cold turkey. one being the obvious psycological effects, but mostly the fact that early into day 3 my legs begin to jump uncontrolably and are so painfully uncomfortable that I cannot sleep or even get comfortable in any position. my question is. Is the a supplement or vitamin that I cann take to help me cope with this problem long enough to get clean?  Thanx for any help...

[free980]

i have been thru this 3 x, now, and i have the ane systems as you do...take, if ur not yet clean,...which i hope u are, things that help....

vitamins..
calcium magnesium and zinc,   calcium at bedtime.
when ur legs jump..get up and walk around the house in the dark and then go back to bed.  ( i do the 2 pool lap minimum.

a hot bath before the walking. with lavender oil for relaxation
calms.. can get in the fry's gricery store....take all day,, all natural
natural sleep aid,,,nighty nite or sominex, and drink a sleep organic tea cammomile.
lots of water
stretch out leg muscles...when all else fails...lay in ur bed and rock fetal postion to get ur  mind off it
mind power...dont succumb to it...tell urself...NO quit it.

i have an oxy arsenal...vitamins water. benadryl immodiom, calms, nighty nite. sleep ted and hot lavendar baths with a walk around my pool,. it works its still hard tho.

i wish u well my freind, as i am into day 3 again. and finally.

[Bcc34]

I made the decision to get off oxycontin 80mgs 3 X's a day and telling you it wasn't easy, I had two seizures, couldn't sleep, chills, sweats, but it is possible. My doctor prescribed suboxone 8mgs. After a few days it started helping. It took the edge off. I highly recommend it. Then my pain got bad again due to a car accident and I went back on oxycontin. I found out I was pregnant and decided to start weaning. I'm now down to 5 mgs twice a day and it is probably the hardest part now. The weaning process really wasn't that bad. Now I'm trying to only take 5mgs once a day. It's not too bad the thing that bothers me the most is the chills due to the cold sweats. I really recommend weaning down. Cold turkey is hell. But after about 5 days you will feel conciderably better. Talk to your prescribing doctor don't be afraid to be honest, they can and will help you.

[genevive333]

I've been on oxyc, for 6 years, got out of control. Believe me: Codein, will get you of oxycontin, is way easier to control codein intake, if you also want to stop codein, is very easy, just taper of, slowly, until you take a normal amount. I've tried to get of oxyc. many times, like everybody else, it was the worse thing i've been through, always got back to oxyc. Now I took the last oxy (taper down, start introduce codein), 5 days ago, taking codein, I feel sore still, but I'm not having wd, as sson my eyes start to water, I take codein. Is a lot cheaper too.

[oxysux]

I have not missed a day of oxycontin for two years, I was smoking about 160 mg a day, and it finnally became time to stop. The only method I found possible is using tylenol pm at night time and being as active as possible during the day. Go to work, go to the gym , and just try to stay busy, by the time the day is over , you will be estatic to go to sleep.  just plain sweating and fighting through the withdrawal is always gonna be better then sitting at home miserable watching the clock.

[Jjrbn]

I have been dealing with painkiller/opiod addiction for years, on and off. It started as injury medication, then occassional recreation, then just taking to avoid with draw. THERE IS HOPE! aNd there is a medication you can buy with out a prescription that is a GODSEND to taper off and avoid WD! IT IS CALLED TRAMADOL AND IT WILL HELP BETTER THAN ANYTHING ELSE! HERE'S WHY: TRAMADOL( brand name is ultracet/ultram) is a SYNTHETIC opiod (narcotic) that is legal to buy and posses in the USA. You can only purchase it online, you can get a prescription online at the same site you purchase from. PLEASE UNDERSTAND it is not like the sites that say you can buy vicodin or oxy etc. W/O a prior RX that is BS and you will lose your money and possibly be arrested. Anyway, tramadol is relatively cheap and has similiar affects as vicodin just not as strong. This medication will help you avoid wd almost entirely AND has a VERY LOW possibility of addiction. It is a pain killer so no achey (achy) muscles, it takes the edge off considerably, helps you sleep, and elevates your mood and likeliness to quit. It is safer than methadone and the patch and the best part is you can buy enough to help you SLOWLY quit entirely. It is very easy to acquire and most websites will only do next day shipping so you get it fast! Good luck

[brd08]

My boyfriend is going trying to get off of OC also.  He was doing about 80 mg a day and has tried to quit several times.  Everytime he does, he gets unbearable and is in a lot of pain and gets sick.  This usually lasts for about 4 days and then he goes back to the drug.  He doesnt know what else to try besides going to a doctor or clinic.  We are limited on money, does anyone know how much it would cost for the medication to get him off of the drug.

[bigcity204]

I am trying to get off oxys its a very very bad road i swear if i dont stop ill die i take 12 80mgs oxys in the morning an 12 at night and i snort them it really really ***** however i am trying to get into a methadone clinic but its a three month waiting list to get in where im from i really wish i cud just suffer through w.ds but its probably not possible with how much i take its a very un realistic amount but i am telling the truth




goood luck with W/Ds

[SpringMO]

Oxy addiction *****.  I did it for 4 years straight and had to quit my job and pretty much remove my self from the world for a month or so.  It was horrible but it worked.  I still don't feel perfect but you have to realize each day is a step forward not backward.  I didn't think it was possible but keep in mind there are many success stories worse than yours; you just have to want it.  Good luck

[sikkntired211]

I just turned 18,my family has no iddea i have been on drugs for the past 3 years. it started wit weed..then to perks n vics..then coke..now oxy cottin is the only drug i am hooked on and i want off so badly.. i dont want to hurt my family.. i want to make them proud.. i use to smoke about 7 oxy 80's a day.. now i only do bout 2 a day.. i want to stop cold turkey because i am about to start a new job and dont wanna waste my money on this anymore and i dont want to feel so bad and cry everyday because i feel as i am juss a disappointment...  wish i could take the past 3 years back i wish i wudda not went off wit friends n stayed wit my mommy n grandpartents more... i have just recently found my faith n god. i know wit out him nothing is possible. so anyone please help me out.. any advice? i want to ween myself off slowly..i actually wanna juss quit cold tukrey but i get so depressed.. i dont wanna go to treatment or see a doctor because obviously i dont want my family to know..please any advice is appreciated

[mr.lucky66]

you can't ween yourself off if you smoke or snort them. That mode of injestion has to stop as soon as you get serious about stopping. You can taper by swallowing them or fractions of them. This usually only works if the pills are doled out by a responsible fried and family member. It's better to go into a detox program if possible. The withdrawals from high dose oxy are way more serious than the usual vicodin that we see here. all the best

[leeisgettingclean]

old tread you might wanna start a new one, go to top of page and  click"ask a question" just advise, i think you might get morre responce that way

[ChrisGull]

FYI for those currently on high doses of Oxycontin who want to get off of it yourself. If you have been on it for a long time you risk severe medical problems if you do. You can even go into convulsions and die. You really should try to see if you can find a local person who can dispense you Suboxone or Subutex (if your reason for being on the opiates is due to a past medical condition, you don't experience withdrawal symptoms like you would on Suboxone). Many pain management doctors are getting involved and becoming Suboxone certified you can't get it from just any doctor.