hurting but hanging on

[polly08]

this is the 7th day of my choice to get off of a fentynal patch Ive been on for 7 years. I am still on 10- 15 mg percocet 4-5xs aday (also for 7 yrs) and plan to reduce that once my first withdraw has stabilized (which seems close).  Ive been lurking and reading and am so grateful for all the support and good ideas, the L-Tyrosene is definately helpful, thank you.

My biggest fear is the very real pain I have. I suffered a severe horse accident 8 years ago, (rupturing a couple of discs) but honestly that seems the tip of the iceburg. Ive since been diognosed with fibro. Which most doctors seem to treat as a mental issue and few act as if they believe it is physical in nature. Ive also suffered from chronic stomach pain since childhood, something no doctor has ever been ever to treat sucessfully. I suffer from severe insominia (I know the opiods make worse) and migraines.
The day I was put on percocet and eventually the fentynal patch, I discovered true relief from all the physical ailements but more importantly, for the first time in my adult lif (which is 45 yrs long now) i found realief from the real mental anquish that all the antidipressants I had tried up to that point had failed to treat.

As I said my biggest fear is how I will cope witht the pain. I really dont find myself pining away for the high (no judgement folks, I enjoy a good buzz as much as the next person) but I have kept my drug dosage constant for 2 plus years now, keeping my pain bearable and not wishing to increase my tolerance any further.

The pain center I get  my meds from are pushing me on rehab, saying that percocet is not a real answer. When I ask what the alternatives are they list off psych meds, many of which have horrific long term side effects and others that Ive already tried and found useless. I dont have a good relationship with this doc but now that Ive started myself down this path I feel physically nd mentally unable to even contmplate searching out another doc. I hate the way so many docs treat you as a idiot as opposed to a partner in your own health care.
Something this doc uses to treat recovery is suboxen.

3 questions. How do I believe that this pain wont drive me to relapse. Any home remidies for chronic pain? Has anyone had sucess with or heard of this suboxen therapy?
Thank you all for your honesty and patience.

[Savas]

Yeah, I figured that (caffeine in pills). Ah well. I'm not used to caffeine anymore so I think a mega dose would be a bad thing...unless I become a trucker?:)
I had a bouncing baby ulcer when I was 20, so I've been wary of doing anything to hostile to my stomach. Caffeine had A LOT to do with it (8-10 cups of coffee a day, plus espresso...never eating until late in the day, etc...as if I decided "I think I'll give myself an ulcer!"

Insomnia is a harsh thing to deal with, and coming off drugs will set it right in. I'd rather get up and do "stuff" than lay in bed trying to sleep (which is just depressing in itself). When I'm in the mind-racing set I get up and go put on a movie or read a book. Anything to get myself distracted. It's VERY hard to stop your mind racing by plain effort.

[polly08]

Thank you for your concern I hope you find some relief soon.  Have you tried hot baths. Ive never been a bath person, rather take mine standing up, but since Ive been trying to detox from the meds I love a hot bath. Really soothes aching mucles and if you throw in some epson salts even better.
I am also an anti seizure med. If I stop taking it the pain in my neck starts to hurt so badly I end up in a dark quiet bedroom till it passes or vomiting. Sounds like classic migraine, and I do find the Neurontin is keeping under control for now.
The doc I am seeing is a huge jerk and will only keep me as a patient if I go on suboxen. I cant cope with that kind of inflexibility. I am not ready to take suboxen (I may end up there, but not now).
I would say I am not the kind to take my meds to get high, BUT I know that at times of real emotional stress, I am not so quick to tell the difference in my emotional versus my physical pain. I never run out of pills before the end of the month and I am careful to cut back when I think my dose may rise. I have been on the same dose for 2-3 yrs. I dont know how I have managed, I just dont want to increase my consumption of pills.

My heart goes out to you. I know what it is like to feel unwell all the time. I hurt most of the time. The pain pills mostly treat your head, they stop you from feeling or caring that you hurt. If thats the best I could do it was good enough for me. But I am so sick of being treated like a criminal, crazy, a liar, drug seeker, you name Ive heard it. I have fought back till I am SICK of doctors. If I dont use their drugs I wont have to deal with the c**p!

Any excercise, even walking may help. It will hurt for a week or so but eventually youll get stronger. Just be careful and go slow. Put your headphones on to some good tunes and enjoy the sunshine. I usually hurt the first few walks (afterwards) but it gets better.

This site is very helpful and there are lots of resources here, so keep in touch!
wishing you all the best
polly08

[Firefaery1023]

I was just diagnosed with fibromyalgia and am off the pain medications.  I have been in a lot of pain lately and been using heating pads all day long.  I don't seem to get muh relief.  I just started seeing a new pain management doctor who wants to try a bunch of procedures to help me with the pain.  I don't know if it will help but I hope it does because I am on an antidepressant and an antiepileptic drug already (which these use to treat fibro).  And I have no relief.  Stick with it, but you might have to stay on a low dose of pain meds, it may be your only option.  If you can keep yourself from getting high off of the drugs that would be a good idea.

[polly08]

Hey Savas, thanks for the encouragment about negative thoughts. I am at the point where they dont seem so prevelant. Thats the good news. The situation I found myself in last night is my mind racing with ideas (business, family etc..) lots of them seem to be constructive, but they dont stop coming and its 3am.

I have struggled with sleep for years. I think e sleep disorder led to the fibro.They usually go togeather but docs seem to not have any idea which comes first.

As to your question on green tea extract, yes many if not all of them contain the caffeine as well as the anti oxidants. Check the side of the box, by law they have to list how many mgs caffeine.
I wish I could tell you differntly. If your sesitive or trying to avoid caffeine, the pills arent the way.

Have you or others had stomach issues to deal with after prolonged use of pain pills?

I am still on my pills and hoping to wean off over the next 7-10 days. I have always had stomach pain (no ulcer yet) and the only time it ever stopped was while on pain meds. My stomach pain is harder to bear than my back pain. I understand that these pills can worsen my stomach condition but as long as I could treat the pain I could function, have a life, move forward. Now that Im off my patch the pain is starting up and its really bad.

Any home remedies would be appreciated. I will go to my gp as well and see what they have to say but I think natural methods usually heal rather than mask.

As to health and tea, try red. I have a nice blend that has fruit and herbs in it. If you drink plain red, it has a slighly methol aftertaste, not unpleasant, just different. The blending of herbs mellows it out. Throw some chamomile in with it if you want to mellow it a bit. But it is one of the healthiest drinks on the planet and no caffeine.

It dont know if it has the polyphenols that green has, but it is haigher in antiodants and has signifigant quantities of minerals in it.
The following is an article I wrote for a newsletter Im involved in, about green tea. It may be stuff you already know.


"Green tea, oolong tea, and black tea, are categorized according to their oxidation levels (called the fermentation process). Green tea is steamed, baked, or pan heated to prevent oxidation and thus the leaves remain green. Unlike green tea, oolong tea is partially fermented, and black tea is fully fermented.  

So why is green tea getting all the attention in the science world? It's mainly because of the antioxidant epigallocatedhin-3 gallate (EGCG), the main component considered good for one's health which is preserved in green tea but lost in oolong and black varieties when fermented. Antioxidants are thought to prevent free radicals.

Oxidized free radicals are believed to cause tissue damage at the cellular level, causing damage to our DNA and have often been referred to as one of the causes attributed to aging, cancer, heart disease, and other human ailments harmful to one's health.

Research has indicated that one of the main antioxidants found in green tea has been found to be much more powerful that both Vitamins C and E.  Compared to to other known antioxidants, EGCG was found to be 100 times more effective than vitamin C, 25 times more effective than vitamin E and twice as powerful as reserveratrol at neutralizing free radicals. "

for more info read this great yahoo article;
7 Reasons to Drink Green Tea

[Savas]

That's just great! i never knew that. Maybe you can answer a question I've been trying to figure out and gotten "maybe answers" only.

I was thinking of trying a green or white tea herbal extract concentrate. Do they process the caffeine out at all? The idea of taking concentrated green tea (1 dose equal 10 cups) makes me wary, since if not that would be a ton of caffeine (which I don't really drink).

I tell folks trying to detox this; try to remember that those negative mood swings are mainly a purely physical reaction. If your like me (most), when you detox taper, one side effect is your mind will start un/consciously circling around and picking out negative, unhappy thoughts.
So...try reminding yourself of that, especially if you catch yourself doing it. It will help make you more bearable to be around (especially if your alone and you've only got yourself for company!) :)

[polly08]

Thanks guys,
poetrygirl I may end up there, (on suboxen) but I feel nervous about taking something else that may be as hard to get off of as the percocet. Im glad to hear it is working for you and I am a fim believer in doing what you need to do for yourself and what works for you, no matter what others say.

Savas,  I have say this because it is my profession actually (the tea business). You can read alot of funny stuff out there so be careful.
Black tea is a third the caffeine of coffee, green tea is a third the caffiene of black tea and white tea is third of green. I am actually drinking alot of red tea as well which you make a good point, that any caffiene may cause jitters.
But another secret I can let you in on, is with any loose or whole leaf tea product, you can re-steep the same serving at least 2-3 times, and after the first steep, 90% of the caffiene is gone.
Im trying to be realistic about how many things I can withdraw  from at once. Cutting, sugar  out can be very painful by itself but I know that is a must. I take my first green in the morning, (instead of my usual black) and then re-steep the same strainer through out the day. But honestly Red Tea is King. Its full of minerals and actually has more antioxidents than green and is naturally caffiene free.
Thanks for the reminder though to watch how caffiene is affecting me, God knows I need all the suggestions I can get. Just thought I might be able to make my own contribution with something I am a little familar with. Tea I know a bit about, drug withdrawls Im learning.
I am struggling so much to stay warm right now, but the temps in my area are suppose to be 60's by mid week so Im planning to take a moderate walk, (at least around the parking lot:) on Wednesday. Im dying for a change of scenery. Thanks for the encouragement.I may have to try tuesday, Im not sure I can wait till wednesday. But I am nevrvous about getting out and not having the strength to get back. It wont stop me, just how I really feel.

[Savas]

Well, it is sort of like a controlled detox. The problem with the patch is you can't moderate the amount, it is what it is. So I'd try to cut that out first. Otherwise you'll have to do some juggling with the pills to find a safer balance if it's too much at once.

I'd watch out for the green tea. From what I understand (looked into this) it's high in caffeine content and that's the last thing you probably want when your in withdrawals of any sort. :)

[poetrygirl1960]

You mentioned suboxone, what I like about it is it does give me pain relief, and you know the fatigue you mentioned is very common for anyone coming off of opiates and it relieved fatigue and anxiety for me.  Also I take folic acid and B vitamins they are both really good for nerve repair and building back your strength.  Weaning is great for a lot of people, and I am so happy for them to be able to quit this way, however I had tried that time and time again and it didn't work for me.  

[polly08]

Thanks everyone for the helpful comments. Sorry to be off the site, but you probably know better than I do where my head is right now. The last two days have been at times overwhelming, incapacitating, scarry.....but each day I feel like the hope of being really free of dependence to pain meds grows a bit more.

Am I kidding myself to try getting off one of these meds at a time? I went cold off the patch, but I didnt feel strong enough to go off both the patch and the pills at once. Yet even though Im determined to be completely clean of narcotic pain meds Im dreading this second round of withdraw,  wish it was over. Im feeling some sucess,I think, my tolerance is decreasing. I am down from 20 mg per 4 hours to 10. I cant take the same dose, it zonks me. I know that numb floaty feeling and as tempting as it is Ive set my foot to this path and I really dont want to look back. I just really dont like talking to this doc. He keeps telling me without the suboxen I will relapse.

I know I will need support. I intend to go to meetings as soon as I feel strong enough to leave the house.
How long does this horrible fatigue last? It wears me out to digest my dinner.

I am taking the L-Tyrosene, omega 3, C, kombucha, and lots of green tea. Im doing my best to keep a clean diet, lots of veggies, fruit, lean meats. Cooking has been tough but a friend shopped for me and my daughter cooked up a bit so I could just pick out what I need.
I feel very lucky to be able to stay home. I work for my self and I have a bout a month I can play hooky.  
What about this incapacitating fatigue? When will I feel some relief?  Thanks all.

[allaboutmary]

My sister Magi and I are both on Suboxone. Magi seems to get a little more pain relief from it than I do, but she is also on a higher dose.  So yes It does help with pain and might be a good option for you.  Just remember it is addictive also. You should go to the Suboxone web site and check it out.  

[Savas]

Ah, forgot that. Suboxone. It could very well help...How it affects your pain management...I couldn't say, from what I've found out, it seems to vary from individual. But if your looking to use it for a detox, it's  a useful alternative.  I'd suggest doing a short term usage if you want total sobriety though (under three weeks). I never thought to ask anyone how it helped with long term pain management, so I can't really say anything on that subject.

[worried878]

Some who have experience with suboxone will answer soon...I think it does provide a certain amount of pain relief but check with someone who has or is on it...flmagi will post soon

[confused456]

Hello!! I am happy that you are wanting to stop all the meds. Great for you!! I am not sure about suboxone, there are mixed reactions about it. Do your research. There are other ways to deal with pain. Try to talk to your Dr. again and if he wont help, I would look for another Dr.

[Savas]

I would say your best bet is to totally reorganize your life as much as possible for the few weeks after you stop.

I won't lie to you, when you have a pain issue and you come off an addictive drug, it's going to make you more sensitive to the pain...and not just physical, emotional as well.

I'd avoid anything strenuous until you've lost that brittle/fragile feeling...I would try getting up and doing some thereputic walking as soon as you can manage.

You could try some herbal remedies to help you through (St. John's Wort used carefully is a marvel!). Just be sure it's a reliable supplier, as there's a lot of drek out there (poor grade herb...no pun intended!)