hydro and benzos for tapering

I have been clean from a 2 year hydro habit for about 6 months and i tapered and used ambien for rls. that's it. but lately i have read about dr.'s prescribing benzo's, sometimes tremendous amounts (like xanax, valium, and klonopin), to help taper off the narcotics for some patients. i realize there are some people out there with incredible habits including drugs like oxy, morphine, demerol and the like, but where does all this end? from what i understand, benzo's are just as difficult to get off of as narcotics and many times more dangerous. if you need something to ease the pain of withdrawals and the proper usage of benzos help, then i can undersatnd (although because of xanax's half-life and tremendous addictiveness, it is my opinion (and i am not a dr.) but prescribing that drug to an addict is not only completely irresponsible but has a gret chance of just leading to another addiction), but my questions are two-fold. one, is this form of help with tapering the best solution (i don't know, i am truly wondering)? and second when taking both meds at the same time, and understanding that benzos chemically work somewhat like alcohol (or maybe i'm wrong), wouldn't that make the combining of the two even that more toxic to your liver? i know hellbent has some experience with this and i would appreciate anyone else's opinion on the subject. it has just been something i have been thinking about recently, due to all the posts on help with withdrawals. drug addiction is a horrible and sometimes seemingly helpless thing, but getting off these drugs can not be completely painless.

[groovygirl]

i think that benzos increase the strength of the opiates you are taking...in my experience anyway.  i have used benzos on occasion while trying to detox, and they have been very helpful in getting sleep and getting rid of that feeling like you are climbing the walls.  i don't have the same type of love for benzos, and i never became addicted to them.  i wouldn't take large amounts of benzos, and my dr. never prescribed large amounts, so i'm not sure what the answer is.

you said you have been clean for 6 months?  congratualations!!  are you just asking out of curiousity, or are you feeling like a relapse is coming?

[Chezz]

I had a very shitty night last night. MY wife thank god was there to help. It isn't all bad.
I found out I am not going to get any type of help with my withdrawls this time. This means no valium. That saved my life last time. I didn't get the climbing the wall feelings and stuff.
I also had to get rid of all of my puffing stuff. I was risking big time by just having it. For my wife I got rid of it. I don't want to go into it anymore.

Those both saved me through the withdrawls last time. Now I am going cold turkey and all I have is some vitamins, and flexeril. The ortho doc put in Ultram for me. Should I take it. Will it help me with the w/ds.

Bottom line - my reg. doc was not in. New doc wanted to be a **** and said no meds. Go cold turkey and deal with it. I asked if there were any non-narcotic meds to take (clonidine ect.), he said nope.

Anybody have any Idea's. I need them. My wife understands how bad this is going to suck for me now. She is going to be there, which will help.
Chezz

[groovygirl]

i have heard ultram has helped some people, but it could be trading one bad habit for another...supposedly it is very addicting.  you could stock up with some stuff from thomas' recipe...you don't need a dr. for those things, and maybe trying the natural route for awhile would be a good thing.  good luck.

[pon]

Good morning and good luck!  will write more later...I am with you today in spirit

pon

[Chezz]

I am so posadfhii0hqwoihgrwklsvcklsadf/

I wish I Fuacskljq349

[Chezz]

I have all of the stuff from the Thomas Recipe.

It is THE CLIMBING UP THE WALLS FEELING that I am scared shitless about. And the no sleep thing.
Without the 2 things I have a had time sleeping as it is. Now add w/d's onto it. I won't be sleeping for the next 3-4 days, with that "feeling" we get.
I am pissed, I am scared. I wish I would have continued on when I had the help.

Fu$@#...............

This is not what I had in mind. Now I am F$##$.
Chezz

[Goldenbear]

I just read your thread and truly feel for you. We are on the same path at the same time. Only one thing differs from your WD... I was fortunate enough to get the neccesary klonipin (klonopin) and sleep aid to help with the ebee jeebies. A nutritionist friend of mine told me about a natural legal suppliment called GABA that is simular to Valium. Just a suggestion to look at if you are really feeling bad. I had my last 25mg of Lorcet last night. No WD yet. You are probrobly 12-15 ahead of me in cleaning up. You can do it. Stick it out and keep posting. I'm off to see my 5 year old get his green belt in Tae Kwon Do.... Hopefully I won't start WD until he has finished getting his promotion. I will check in later. Remember about hot baths and showers.
Goldenbear

[ocgirl]

Sorry you are having such a horrible time and that you med supply is gone.  If if helps I am feeling pretty crappy myself so I can honestly say I know what you are going through.  Last night my best friend that has been there for me through this got pissed at me and now I am alone at my mom's house detoxing.  Mom thinks I am sick with some sort of virus and isn't taking care of me at all but I figure I got myself into this so I can get myself out.  Mind over matter along with the recipe and a klonopin but I do get those filled on the 2nd so I am glad.  I am still sick which I thought would be gone even though it is only my 3rd day off of the oxy's maybe I shouldn't be taking the lorcet to try to ease the pain because I can't even feel them anyway, who knows?  I am determined to beat this and I think if I can do it then anyone can because I consider myself to be a weak individual.  Well, good luck and I will keep you posted.  Thank God it is Saturday instead of Sunday because I don't even know if I can go to work Monday especiall feeling like this.

[AlanW]

Sorry to hear about what you have to go through.  Have you ever tried using Benedryl?  It might help in putting you to sleep at night.  Also, try taking six advils for any cramps or pain in the legs.

Be positive :)
Alan

[Chezz]

I am going to do this. It was just the immediate feeling that I got. I lost 2 things that personally helped extremely well with the w/ds. Also, when I called my doc, I didn't expect to get someone else. And then for them to tell you to take a hike is just unreal. He acted like I deserved this. My reg. doc was working with me and didn't really want me to stop taking them yet.

Anyways, enough of the bullshit. You guys know I am not one to give up. I will have to deal with this and move on. I took my last 2 this morning.
Hopefully I won't get the heebee's too much. That is really what bothers me. I am also going to look into that supplement(Gama or whatever).

Even my wife was surprised I was so bumbed. She said "You have done this before without help, whats the big deal?" She understands but doesn't. She is right though. I usually just bite the bullet and do it.

Well, today is day 1. I will be fine until tomorrow. Tomorrow night being the worst.
Keep positive,
Chezz

[Chezz]

What is GABA?

Gamma-Aminobutryic Acid (GABA) is an amino acid discovered in Berlin in 1883. It is classified as a neurotransmitter; that is, a natural substance that help the nerve impulses cross synapses and communicate with one another.

What does GABA do?

In addition to it's positive effect on the nervous system, medical studies have also proven GABA to have many other important positive effects on the body following supplementation. First, GABA naturally stimulates the anterior pituitary gland to secrete higher levels of Human Growth Hormone (HGH). Second, studies have shown GABA to improve sleep cycles leading to more restful sleeping and more interesting, vivid dreaming. Third, GABA has shown powerful stabilizing effects on blood pressure. Finally, research has demonstrated GABA to be a very effective analgesic, eliminating pain from chronic conditions such as arthritis and lower back pain.

GABA most startling effect is in body fat loss. How does it work?

Modern advances in medical research have uncovered a number of previously unknown facts concerning fat storage and energy utilization by the body. Recent studies have found that higher level of circulating Human Growth Hormone (HGH) was associated with less body fat and a better lean tissue/stored fat ratio. Additionally, stimulating naturally the levels of Human Growth Hormone led to a marked decrease in fat storage and greater feelings of energy and vigor. HGH is a hormone that is widely known for its powerful anabolic (muscle building) effects as well as its lipotropic (breakdown and utilization of body fat) effects. The overall result of these effects is an increase in lean tissue mass and a decrease in body fat.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH) is produced, stored and secreted by the pituitary gland located at the base of the brain. As you advance in age, HGH is able to continue to be made and stored by the brain, however, it's level of secretion (release into the bloodstream) falls way off. This lack of circulating HGH is the factor that scientists now believe is responsible for the tendency of older individuals to have increased difficulty losing body fat. GABA signals the pituitary to naturally release HGH. Studies have shown that 90 minutes following GABA supplementation, HGH levels increase over five times the previous levels.

What is an effective dose of GABA?

Scientific research demonstrates that at least 2 grams of GABA should be taken per dose. Additionally, it has been found that 5 grams is more effective than 2 grams and that effectiveness tops out at 18 grams.

Are there any negative side effects to GABA?

There are no negative side effects possible with the use of GABA, however, some beginning users report mild tingling about the face and neck as well as a brief but noticeable change in heart rates or breathing patterns.

Are all GABA products similar?

Unfortunately, no. When considering the merits of GABA products, two important properties should be recognized. First, many GABA powders are not 100% pure. In fact, they may be "cut" as much as 9-1 with simple corn starch. Secondly, GABA should be a Hydrochloride (GABA HCL) if it is to be completely effective as an oral compound. This allows it to pass through digestion and to reach the brain fully intact where it plays it's physiologic role.

When should GABA be taken?

HGH is best release within two hours of falling asleep so if GABA is being used for fat loss it should be taken on an empty stomach, immediately before bed. If GABA is being used for pain or any of it's other positive benefits it may be taken anytime throughout the day or night.


Sounds good to me.
Chezz

[deva]

hey thanks for that info,im going to check it out.im thinking about you because im sitting here sweating and feeling a little crappy even though i have meds.im conciously cutting them down to a minimum today.i will then try to get off again by next weekend.i always feel awful,sleepless,leg cramps,WEAK,etc...when i come off.well ill be here today,if there is anything i can do to ease the pain let me know.what a ***** that doc. was.thats the the prob. with some of these doctors,they think you deserve the pain.we'll be rootin for you.love deva

[Chezz]

So where are you at with the meds? Waiting and prolonging sometimes just makes it worse. Look at my situation. I would have been out of the woods by now, and I wasn't even having to deal with the w'd since the meds helped. Now I have no meds and still have to deal with it. Plus, I can't puff either and that really helped to keep me calm and my mind off it at night so I could sleep. I had to get rid of that too. I am very happy that I did because of the circumstances. Actually I am quite proud I did and didn't think about myself at all.
Anyways, enough rambling. Let me know where you are at. You might be better off doing it sooner. The cramping, tired, ect can be helped with the Recipe.
Just a thought. I don't like draggin stuff out. especially when you are still taking them and feeling like ****. Sounds like a lose-lose. You can make it a win-win though.
My wife and I are off to GNC. I am going to see what I can pick up to help. Maybe the GABA.
Keep positive,
Chezz

[bmac]

Hey thanks for the bass thing.I love my instrument.As I stated earlier in a post I went to New Orleans and while there I had
a '62 P Bass tatoo'd on my arm.That's a 1962 P Bass,if anyone is wondering what the hell a p'62 p bass is,I have been playing since I was 12 and I'm 44 now.I've had people say why do you
have the word 'bass' on your arm,are you a fisherman.I just have to laugh.Yea,large mouth.I also run sound for bands here in town
and I have been behind the board running 16 Crown 5000 watt
amps before.8 double 18 JBL subs,now that's thumpin'.I love music and I really love live music.It fills the soul with that
warm fuzzy feeling.Like it's bouncing off concrete,that feeling.
I owe alot to Stevie Ray Vaughan,He taught me long ago that you
can be straight and enjoy playing music.He was a real influence
on my music life.He was a druggie that finally discovered that
drugs were killing him.He got straight then his helicopter
hit a mountain and he died.That was a sad day for music.
He had just accepted Christ into his life and I know he's in heaven now.God's got a really good band backing him up now.
As for the lose/lose thing.I realize that I have great doctors here.They all want me to be better.They also realize that knee replacement is a painful thing.I will do what they say.Believe me I can't take pain that most would deal with.My dad had a hip replacement and only took tylenol for pain.He never took but one
lortab and told the doctor he didn't ever want to feel that way again.Man,you talk about balls!
Well thanks for the comment,I need all I can get.Like Chezz I am
struggling with my addiction and I will deal with it.
                 Rock on!
                 bmac

[deva]

im at 40 mgs oxy3 times aday. ihavnt been taking any irs.and i used to take 80mgs.3 times a day last week so all in all this place has very much kept me focused.its hard,because i still have the actual back pain seeping through,so its a reminder of whats to come.im trying.mental jousting.so the recipe works for some but has it helped all or most of those whove tried?anyway,ill keep up with you and your experience,maybe it will encourage me to try c-t,but i doubt it.lots of love and light to all,love deva(by the way thats pronounced 'dayva' its hindu for angel,but im not indian,its actally my rotties name,shes the best;)

[Chezz]

I thought you might be on a lower dosage. Then it might help to go CT.

I just got back from lunch and GNC. I bought the GABA. It was $17. If it works great. It sounds like it will. It helps with panic attacks ect.

I also looked into the Chem. composition and it is the most important inhibitory neurotransmitter in the CNS.

Flumazenil is a benzodiazepine which binds to the GABA receptor at the benzodiazepine site without deforming it so as to enhance GABA binding. It is thus a competitive antagonist to the benzodiazepine sedatives.

This means don't take it with benzo's. I am not a rocket scientist, but so far the chem. compound sounds like it is a good alternative to "calming" meds.

I am going to do some more research on this.
Regards,
Chezz

[deva]

i thought the link was attatched to my last post,but for reason it didnt transfer so i wrote it out.there is a line under the whole link,but i dont know if thats part of the adress.so here it is,i hope you enjoy it.luv deva
<http://168.143.173.209/IWGnet.swf>
good luck,hope it works:)

[Chezz]

15 hours behind? I took my last 2 this morning. Although I concider this my 1st day clean.  I took them at about 7am.

So far I don't really care if I have the worst withdrawls ever.

That which can hurt you only makes you stronger. I have done this before, probably will have to do it again sometime in my life. I am young, with a bad back. Not a good combination.

I hope your meds ease the jqwf89h2qrhadslkfj.
Chezz

[Chezz]

I don't know you all like I know myself. So I am going to write something that is going to help me through this and has helped throughout my life.

Everyone out there can beat this. Everyone can move on with their lives, or make a brand new path.

Addiction did not start or stop here. For some the battle will now turn to alchohol/pot/dif.drugs. For some the cycle will never end.

I am scared of drinking. I too have pondered the thoughts of alchoholism (alcoholism). I don't remember the last time I drank. To be honest, I don't really want to. It is a memory, I hope to keep it that way.

People have to realize that your life is made up of what YOU make it. Some never spent the time. They just live moment to moment.

I thought moving to another country was the end of the world. I thought there is no way I am going to get settled back in the States very easily. But of course I know better. I had a temp. appt. set up the second night I got off the plane. In an area I have no idea about. Yet I did it. I made it through.

Dwelling, worrying, obsesssing will get you no where. I remember I had a fuzzy head one day. Then I took a perc, I thought...is it the perc or my fuzzy head that I am feeling? The point is why even worry about it. I "wanted" to feel it.

Most people including myself worry so much about the w/ds we get sick from it. You FEEL like **** because you BELIEVE it. You BELIEVE that you don't FEEL RIGHT because you haven't "taken" anything yet to FEEL okay.

Until an addict can get to the point were they don't have to "take" anything to "feel" better, their journey will never end.

What are you going to do after you are clean? Take something else. Lay around and wish you could party.

You have to fill that "void". Be that the Gym, riding horses, writing, walking, drawing, painting.......
Getting clean is fine. Staying that was is another story for some people. Some have to move to another city, change jobs. They do whatever it takes to keep them that way.

Personally, I am scared. I don't want to quit this and move back to drinking. I can feel it, I know it. Its that feeling inside. I am going to find ways to make a BETTER LIFE for myself and my family.
We all have issues, deeper than these will ever be, yet we never deal with them. There is never a good time.

Well Today is my good time. I am making this change. You can too. This is nothing to beat. I have dealt with issues far worse than this and made it through. I am sure you have too.

To Pon - 15 years of sobriety. CONGRATULATIONS.

this is more than pain meds. This is LIFE. When you finish with this problem, are you going to go make another one for yourself.

I am hoping I don't, and I am going to use the strength I have inside, and the strength I have gained from all of you.....
Chezz

[Goldenbear]

I am in agreement with your last post. I have used drugs (pain meds, pot, never alchohol) to calm me from deeper issues. I recognize once I beat the vics there will be new problems that surface. I have a great job and a family that supports my current addicted state of being. My family has waited for me to gain the strength to get off the vics. Noone has pushed me or judged me for becoming addicted to the meds. I have gained a great deal of support from all of you. Even the angry threads have taught me more about myself and the anger and resentment I feel towards ME. There is no reason for me to dwell in my own misery when my life is basically very good. I cannot even remember the road I have taken to get to the point of being so dependent on Pain Killers. (Killers they are)

Everyone I really feel like shi- right now. Two hot tub visits, Two baths, one shower, a klonopin, my vitamins since 3pm and still I feel like I have the flu. Not pretty, but I guess it will get worse before it gets better.

We are moving in the right direction though....

Keep up the fight Chezz and I hope you get some rest tonight.
Goldenbear

[Chezz]

Just a little disclaimer. My posts are just that... my posts. Alot of the time I just sit here and write and feel and cry. Sometimes it takes 10min, sometimes 2hours.

The point is, I don't want to offend anyone. I write what comes. If you don't agree, cool, you shouldn't everytime. Otherwise it would be pretty boring.

During these times it helps me. I hope that it helps you too. I just don't want someone taking offense. Or bitching about that frekking nuthead that writes all these crazy posts.

I write. It helps. This is so much more than a simple addiction to a medicine to me. These are times for introspection. To take a step back and evalute my life and how I got to this point. Furthermore, how I am going to get back out and on top.

We have only one life...how we live it is our CHOICE.

I want to be able to look back on this 15 years down the road and feel like I made the right choice and most importantly the right changes.


CHezz  
on a ramblin roll


I hope I get some sleep too. My wife just woke up from her nap, asked what I had been doing. I was watching the usa movie channel, wishing I could nap too. But I want to sleep all night tonight, I hope I can. Tomorrow will be worse though.

BTW = I wish I had a hot tub at our house. Plus our bath tub is even uncomfortable. The back part where you would lay your head/back is completely vertical. So you either sit straight up which sucks, or lay down all the way with your head on the bottom of the tub. it sucks to say the least. I would iive in there otherwise.

[deva]

YOU GUYS ROCK!!!!!!!!
im so proud of you both,your so strong and courageous.ive done this b-4 and am working on goin' there again real soon,so i hope youll be around to help me to .
GB- what do you think of the recipe?have you dteed b-4 without it?whats the difference?can you remind me of what and how much of you were taking b-4 taking the leap??
chezz,im with you too,thankyou for sharing with all of us,keep it up

for you both,especially right now im leaving a link to check out which inspires me..maybe youll find it does you too.and for anyone else that would like some inspiration...heres the link... love to all,deva
<http://168.143.173.209/IWGnet.swf>

[Chezz]

The difference between detoxing with and without the Recipe is night and day for me.

The L-Tyrosine and B6 are proven winners. The Mag/Zinc I agree with, but you have to buy the right kind.

Another thing. Some people may have leg cramps, you may not. Some may climb the walls, you might wanna play pocket pool.

If you worry, they will come. If you keep positive and roll with the punches and try and GET OUT OF THE HOUSE you will survive.

That is why I never knew these were symptoms of withdrawl (withdrawal). When I got the restless legs before I said Fu#$ this is weird, then went out for a 10 mile bike ride. They still weren't "tired" but I sure did show them. Not only did I feel better cause the bike ride, but also because I got out and didn't let it debilitate me. This was when I was taking ms-contin and just decided one day I didn't want to take it anymore. The next week at my doc. appt. I told her. She was like, WHAT. She had a big ol' weaning plan, the whole 9yards. The more you lay around, the shittier you feel. This is even you are healthy.

Same with eating. Gotta eat. I get so bad sometimes I won't wanna eat for days. But I force myself too. And I do feel better.

You have gotta want it. Keep positive,
Chezz

[Goldenbear]

I was taking up to 100mg a day of Lorcet over 6 months for herniated discs in my back. Up until yesterday I had tapered to 60mg daily. My problems with my back were ok after 2 months. I played possum with my Doctors for the last 4 months to get more Lorcet. I have had a never ending supply from my Docs. I only admitted to my primary Doctor that I was addicted 3 weeks ago. He told me he knew, but was afraid to pull me off the pain killers while I was still hurt. He has helped me a lot, but the forum members actually know more about WD than he does. WE have experienced the WD and actually understand the mental traumas that are part of giving up our friends the meds. I have a feeling that this will be one of the hardest fights in my life.

This is my first WD rodeo. I hope Thomas' recipe helps. I am following it to the last word. I will post threads over the next week to let you know if it works for me.

Read and gain confidence in yourself. When you are ready the forum will help you with a lot of what you are having trouble with... I'm hitting the hot water again.

Goldenbear

[Goldenbear]

Good to see you gaining your strength and will to beat this back.
As I said in my earlier thread I'm about 15 hours behind you in WD. The ebee jeebies have hit big time...big, big time... Never felt butterflies and shi--y like this before. I'm going to the hot tub and my bottle of klonopin. Hopefully it will help my state of being. Let me know if the gaba helps. By the way did you all know that Milk Thistle cleanses the liver and promotes healthier liver tissue.

My son did get his promotion to green belt in Tae Kwon Do earlier. He is such inspiration for me. Talk about being an emotional basket case. This is really going to suck for the next few days isnt it?

Was my usage of 60mg-100mg of Lorcet a day a lot? What can I expect in the next 72 hours. I am 15 hours behind you Chezz.

Goldenbear

[earlygrayce]

thanks for responding to my post starting this thread. no i am not thinking of relapsing, just a little wierded out by all the people trying to replace pills(opiates)w/pills(benzos) just so they don't feel the effects of what they've been doing to their body. i can't really feel sorry, and i was/am an addict myself, people who ***** and moan about being out of pills and having to actually feel some sort of withdrawal. i understand things can get hard, and other med help is sometimes necessary (ambien helped with my rls for a few months), but several people on this board seem to think that they are entitled to a free and clean escape from both the withdrawals and their habit. some have posted in this very thread. but thanks for your concern and i was just curious about those couple things, that's all. take care of yourself.

by the way, isn't it funny how a thread is started on one topic and seems to completely ignore that question/topic about three posts in?

[Chezz]

I have to agree with you on the benzo deal. I am actually pretty happy that I am doing this naturally.

I did notice the last time, when I did have the Valium and a couple puffs. I would be sluggish and didn't want to do much.

Doing it "naturally" feels better to me. That means I am free of all narcotics.

And to your comment on changing the thread. BUMBER. Guess what.. we all can't start a new one. They only allow a couple a day.

I am glad to hear that you are 6 months clean.
Chezz

[earlygrayce]

Bumber? allright. its no big deal. i know the page only allows so many threads a day. i was just hoping for a few more responses to my questions. take care and keep the faith.

[Chezz]

I agree. I wish more people would have got involved in that discussion. It could HELP someone by giving them the knowledge, so they don't cross-addict.

Even if it is only one person that it helps...
Chezz

[earlygrayce]

And just to  follow up, I'm not really sure I agree with a "natural" detox from opiates either. Especially considering what kind and how much you are using. You can't be expected to taper off of 300mg of oxy a day with the occasional speedball thrown in. That just won't happen. A doctor's help as needed is other meds perhaps like benzos(just not xanax-please no xanax you idiots). But I had a subsantial to low hydro-oxycodone(perc) habit of 15-20 pills a day max. I tapered with ambien for sleep and a dr who knew the truth along with counseling. And THAT is what is missing - either 12 step or one on one drug counseling to supplemant your withdrawal. To be quite honest some herbal vitamin recipe is not going to do it. It might help a little, but for LONG TERM success - you need a program or psychotherapist. And people don't like to hear that because they think "just give me another pill and I'll make it through!" Addiction is just way too strong.

But most of these hydro habits I read on this board (15-25 pills, 75-175mg a day), I believe can be tapered from successfully. But here is the thing.... you will feel like **** for a week. You won't die, you won't be gasping for air... you'll just think life sucks. and it will. I guess considering that level of addiction which i experienced, I am sick of some of the crying. It is something we all have to get through and it SUCKS, but it will make us stronger and better for it.

Bottom line, and this is just my opinion, but if you abuse drugs you are going to have to pay for it in some way. And a week of hell withdrawal and 12 step is the easiest way out. The only reason I object to benzo or other drug use to get off opiates is you are exchanging a drug for drug and that, in the end, will NEVER work.

Take care Chezz and everyone.

[Chezz]

BTW - I have never taken oxy or anything else except percocet. I also have never taken more than 15 in one day. I was taking 2-4x a day then 1 at night. I also only have 1 doctor. He knows the whole rollercoaster.

He agree's with my ortho doc that I shouldn't put myself through this. He feels you should treat physical addiction as well as pain.

I am still sticking this out.
Chezz

P.s. He put in for epidural steroid shots ASAP. Last time he saw me, I was on the meds and took extra since I knew he would be doing all the tests on me. Well today he got a load of what I am like with no meds, PAIN.

Still no w/d's

[peaz]

Good post! I agree w/ everything you said.  This is bound to be uncomfortable, but it isn't deadly.  As a matter of fact, if we addicts had to go through withdrawl (withdrawal) symptoms (hypothetically) before we got to the high of our DOC, we'd go through it in a minute, everytime. LOL.  I am a firm believer in some kind of program for aftercare, for when the motivation wanes and our addictive voices get louder and louder...I'm doing a drug counselor and group therapy (excellent--like this forum only in person) and AA and I need every bit of it, and will for a long time.  Be tough, everyone and keep posting.  Peaz

[earlygrayce]

thanks peaz. i'm clean 6 months and rolling. got on an antidepressant (serzone), and ambien for my horrible rls which has disappeared over time. keep your programs going and if you have not try exercising. i lift wieghts and do cardio on a regular basis and sometimes i feel the high walking out of the gym after a good workout is better than any high i've ever felt.

chezz... i didn't know you were in pain. i am one of those jackasses who was in temp. pain then got into being high because the vikes for my tooth felt good. if you are in real honest to goodness pain, what i have said about getting of the meds, doesn't hold much water because i don't know where your addiction starts and your pain ends. i do know that all of us abuse these meds and are perfectly healthy physically, should quit whining about much of the withdrawal symptoms. again, if you were doing several hundred mg of oxy a day and you are otherwise fine, you will need some dr. help to get off. but if your habit is 15 - 20 pills of hydro a day, don't expect it to be a cakewalk. the ambien saved me due to my rls, but some of these recreational addicts (low on the amounts they are taking daily and who are also physically fine) just nee to suck it up, taper if possible (taper-taper-taper-taper-taper...... that is so important) and for god sakes get into a program or some counseling. otherwise this **** will happen over and over and over again.

chezz i know most of this probably doesn't apply to you, but i feel the need to keep saying it for everyone else.
i hope you stay healthy and know that everyone here supports your efforts. our prayers are with you.

[Chezz]

It applies to everyone in my opinion. I have taken them when I wasn't in pain also. Not very often though. I have also taken more to be "pain free".

I haven't any withdrawls from this time around, except for the pain and a little lazy.
The pain has just come on in the last 12 hours. It is getting stronger in intensity the longer I deal with it.

We all have our battles. Your advise is always good. I just wanted to clearify my usage.

Also, regarding the pain. This is one place I can be honest with it and myself. To be very honest, it has scared me since the pain has gone down to my foot. I am hoping it is just temp. due to stopping the meds.
All I know is this is 10x harder dealing with the pain, than the w/d have ever been.
Good luck to all, thanks.
CHezz