hydrocodone and diazapam withdrawal

[mmah]

After being on vicodin and valium for an extended period due to back and knee problems and now being in physical therapy, I have begun reducing the medication I was taking. I believe I am experiencing withdrawal symptoms such as anxiety and diareah. How long will this last will reducing intake of these medications gradually until no more are taken work?

[Seamstress]

You should probably only attempt one w/d at a time.  I would suggest the vicodin first which can be done cold turkey or by tapering.  The valium will help with those w/d symptoms and once you're off that, then the valium which MUST be tapered,usually at the rate of 1 mg. per 4 days - 1 week. All of this is dependent of course on how much you are taking but on the plus side it doesn't sound like you've been taking either very long. An extended period to me suggests months rather than years?

[mmah]

thanks for getting back to me.  been on for over a year.  tough to tell if the butterfies are w/d or "panic withdrawal" i saw on ketta's thread.  

don't want to get another presciption.  if i'm at 5mg of valium now and and 1 vicodin,  you think i should just cold turkey the vicodin and stay with valium.  i'm concerned that i don't have enough valium to use as you suggested....have about 50 mg left (5x10 mg) and your "prescription" calls for more because it's one mg less but stay on that dose for a week.

you think i have to go back and get more, or give it a shot with what i have.

please write back.  Thanks!

[Schlub]

If I were you, I would only attempt a valium detox under a doctor's supervision -- as seizsures have been known to occur while wthdrawaing from that drug.

That doesn't mea Seamstress's taper regimen isn't right. I'm just saying let your doctor know what you're planning and get his advice, too.

Opiate withdrawals won't kill you (although for addictions bigger than yours, people wish they were dead). But Valium and other benzo withdrawals can be dangerous.

[Seamstress]

I have detoxed myself from opiates and benzos.  It's easy to find doctors and clinics for the opiate detoxes but very few docs know what to do with benzo w/d. I would get off the vicodin first.  As I mentioned the valium will actually help with that w/d.  I would get more valium and I would go back to the 10 mgs and taper at 1 mg per 4 days if you want to do it quickly until you get to 5 mgs and then 1 mg per week. That's after you're off the vicodin.  Valium has an extremely long half life - up to 200 hours so you can go a week and then bang! get hit with severe symptoms.  It's nothing to mess with. I've had seizures from attempting cold turkey from benzos. On the plus side, be grateful you're addicted to valium, it's a relatively weak benzo and it's long half life makes it easy to taper from...it leaves your body so gradually you hardly feel the w/d.  Email me if you want:  ***@****.

[mmah]

thanks so much for your help. i really appreciate it.

[radioboy74]

I hate to break a thread but I can never post.  I am highly addicted to medication that is a Nasal spary that is reportdly 10 x's stronger than morphine and it's so easly opbtainabe.  WHAT DO I DO.  Some nights I fear that I won't wake up if I spray to much of this medecine... HELP

[vikequeen]

Is your med called stadol?

[radioboy74]

No why do you ask if it's that one.  Is that one to say away from?

[GOD]

It would be easier for us to help if you gave us the specific name of the medication you are on. There are plenty of people who check this board daily who can help.

[skipper]

radioboy:
i have a question for you. this question is based on some assump-
tions i have that i hope are wrong! most of your postings are question about identifying unknown drugs that you have come across. i myself am a recovering addict who used to read the PDR as if it were a book on the best seller list. from your posts i've gathered that you suffer from migraine head aches. this is a malady i would wish on no one. are you working with a MD whos speciality is headaches? how long have you had this problem? what praticular therapys have you tried?

see radioboy, i don't recall you ever posting anything but inquirys as to what a praticular drug is, what it can do, or if anyone has ever tried it. i've been a drug addict for 35 years. i am willing to share any knowledge i have with you, if it is a legitimate question. i am not willing however to further you chasing down a high.if that is why you post here i have a few things you should know:
1) i wish you goodluck
2) if your going to be an addict, realise that most knowledge you
will need to survive is aquired the "hard way." i can't speak for
anyone else on this forum, but i don't want to take on any ap-
prenticeships.
3)i (or any other forum participant) am very reluctant to share
knowledge with you, that may unintentionly lead you to hurt your-
self. i've got enough blood on my hands already.

i hope to god i'm wrong about all of this. i don't mean to judge
you, as i have been well down the road i think you are getting
started to travel.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[jennyfla]

Listen to Kip, he knows all the horrors that drug use can bring.
Drugs destroy everything you've ever had, worked for, dreamed of, and the worst part is it robs you of your soul!
The sadness and emptiness you are left with after the 'fun time' is over are almost unbearable at times.  To look back and see the damage that was caused along the way if something that you have to face and get passed, but know that a life with drugs is a disaster waiting to happen, no one can escape it's inevitable destruction!!!
Good luck, and like Kip says, keep an angel on your shoulder! :)
Lv Jenny

[OxyDout]

kip I agree as well.  I hope I'm wrong in my assumptions as well, however, I know plenty of people (my brother included) that stole any and all drugs and did the research later.........I hope that isn't the case, either way, we are all here for you.

GWH

[OxyDout]

Is it me or does anyone else see a problem with a "Nasal spray" pain killer.............. ok, no governing body wants or likes drug abuse, so lets make it easier on them so they don't have to crush up any pills......???

[Unwise]

I see that Kip's questions went unanswered thus far, which may bolster his suspiscions.  As someone who has been referred to as a "Walking PDR"--I often know more about the meds than the docs do--I will run the risk of sounding ignorant here by saying I've never heard of a pharmaceutical nasal spray version of morphine (which was the title of radioboy's post) nor of any opiate nasal spray.  There is a nasal spray that was available from overseas that gave you more of a rush of energy, but that doesn't seem to be the drug in question and I am not about to name it.  

To get back on topic, I would like to ask this question again, as my original query apparently went unanswered and was then bumped off the current list of threads.  Sorry to be redundant.

I currently am taking xanax as prescibed, namely .5 mg three times a day.  Occasionally, I take four.  This has been prescribed for severe anxiety and panic attacks.  My biggest problem right now is vicodin, which I am abusing and trying my best to taper off of.  I know that the xanax will help with some of the withdrawal symptons and I am also on prozac now to help with a depression that had led me to become suicidal.  Since vicodin is the biggest problem, I want to attack that first.  Assuming I get off of that, is 1.5 mg of xanax a day something to worry about in terms of tapering down, or will I require doctor's supervision?  It certainly doesn't seem like a lot, I don't take it to get loaded like with vics--which now only make me feel normal instead of high--but it is a concern that I want to start addressing now.

Incidentally, I was also abusing soma, ran out, and did not suffer any noticeable withdrawal other than wishing I had some every now and again.  This has given me a degree of hope regarding the other addiction, although I know vicodin is a much different, more dangerous animal.  Just a thought.  Thanks for listening.

[OxyDout]

I'm not sure how many vics your taking in one day, but I was up to about 160mg of oxy contin a day, and If I could get vikes, I have taken about 20 a day, it gets ugly real quick. I recently started to take valium at night to keep me from buying oxy. But since you have been taking both I don't know what to recommend.  Your taking a minimal amount of xanax so I would think staying with that would be fine.  See, I took methadone to come clean and it worked great, but I don't think methadone (wafer not liquid) with xanax would be a great combination, or maybe it would be ok, I don't know, thats a question for kip.  In any case, Its a tough situation because I"m not the most knowledgeable person, I only speak from experience.  The methadone didn't get me high, but it can still be very addictive for someone like myself because it made me feel "normal" like I did before I popped any pills.  I wish you the best of luck, but my advice is to DO THIS UNDER A DOCTORS SUPERVISION, if you can......... good luck, keep posting

GWH

[kdog]

I can't recommend that anyone "play" with methadone and benzos as my experiences led to repeated ods.  The "lady meth" retarded the benzo action which led to increased dosing and.......wham:  od. Detox, traeatment facility and one day at a time.

[radioboy74]

The post everyone is waiting on.   The only reason I have not listed the medicine, is because I thought I noticed someone in the room I knew and I didn't wanted to be judged, although I know this is not a room to judge.  For the record, I have asked several questions about medication I have been on - an NO I am not seeking advice on Meds to get high on.  As a matter of fact, I've decided to just deal with the pain and stopped cold turkey the day I posted the comment - that's why I've been quiet.  I feel much better now and for the most part with one exception reading back on the post have helped me out.  I thank those of you who truly cared and wished to help.  I'm free of the meds just not the pain - but like the old saying goes " This too shall pass"

[OxyDout]

I'm glad to hear things are going well, however, if the pain is too severe you should take care of it, nobody here wants to see another go through "true" pain.  I say that because I used to use pain that didn't exist as an excuse.  In anycase, I hope all is well, stay in touch, and if you need anything......this entire forum is yours.

GWH

[radioboy74]

Thanks GWH.  The pain is real, I truly don't even like pain medication - it's just not me.  I am currently on something stricltly over the counter and herbal.  I've even discussed the other pain med's with my doctor and warned of what I thought was high potential for abuse.   Thank you, all of you, for your concern and care.

[Unwise]

Good luck with dealing with your pain.  I know it isn't easy.  I don't think any of us here meant to judge you, and if it came off that way, it is because there are those who will use this forum in ways it is not meant to be used.  It was wrong to presuppose that's what you were doing and if I contributed to making you feel that way I would like to offer my apologies.  I wish you only the best and hope that you find relief from your pain soon. I applaud your decision to stay of the narcotics, especially in this time of need.  You serve as an example to us all.

[toomuchpain]

Please help!  I have been on valium (low doses) here and there since the age of 16.  For the last 10 years I have built up to at least 15 mgs. a day.  Suffice it to say that all of this totals over a couple of decades.  A cold turkeyed me from the valium last year in Jan.  I stayed off of it for almost 2 months and pretty much lost it:  hallucinations, voices, all the typical withdrawal stuff, etc.  I wnet back on and went to a detox.  They c/t'd me again.  I became absolutely delusional.  Went back on again.  Did a slow taper of 1 mg. every 2 weeks and sufferred the whole time.  I now have been off for over 4 months and I feel incredibly sick.  I have been delusional to the point of hospitalization.  No other meds. helped.  I seem to remain very screwed up with something that feels like brain deterioration!  

Here's what I need to know!  Could I go back on to stop withdrawal or has the damage been done?  I have tried to take a little piece to see if I could find relief.  I think I do but I am afraid of hurting myself any further.  Please help.  In too much pain!

[Unwise]

Sounds like you need another doc or hospital, because the one that simply cold turkeyed you didn't know what they were doing, and took an enormous risk in doing so.  The whole point of seeing a professional to get off benzos is that it is serious business, as you well know, and for Christ's sake, you could (and did) cold turkey at home.  It's a travesty you had to probably pay good money to be put through the whole ordeal again while allegedly under the care of professionals.

There are others here who probably know a lot more about this than I do, but when I went into rehab, some of the drugs I was addicted to other than vicodon were valium/xanax/ativan, and a lot more than what you were taking a day.  I was given a patch--can't remember the name--and was given a small dose of xanax for a few days before they stopped it altogether.  My own personal experience of withdrawal at that point was painful and depressing, but I did not go into classic withdrawal, not did I suffer hallcinations or any of the other things you are going through.  You should seek out another facility or doctor who will offer you a more empathetic and considerate treatment than simply putting you through something you could do at home on your own.

Like (almost) everyone else here, I am not a doctor, so please take my advice with that in mind and at face value, and listen to what others have to say.  My own personal suggestion at this juncture is that you should either continue taking the valium ONLY UNTIL you can get yourself to a good doctor or facility, or better yet, get your ass to an emergency room RIGHT NOW--that's what they are there for!!!  As you have already experienced, withdrawal from benzos is living hell and could result in seizures which can be life-threatening.  I would rather see you take the medication and live until you can find PROPER treatment, than run the risk of hurting yourself or even dying by going cold turkey again without medical supervision.  Sometimes it's hard to pick up the phone or go through the process of finding the right facility when you are hearing voices or hallucinating.  But if things are as bad as you say they are, then the one you can do right this very moment if you really feel like you are losing it, is to get yourself to an ER without delay.  I doubt that they would simply make you go cold turkey without administering some kind of anti-seizure meds as well as something for the hallucinations and pain.  They may also hook you up with a good shrink, which it sounds like you need.  I know you had a negative experience before which may make you reticent to try it again, but rather than advise you to simply keep taking the drug to stave off insanity, I would rather give you the hope that you can find relief and proper care for your problem by putting yourself in the hands of a hospital or physician.  And that's something you can do right this very minute.

Do you know someone who can drive you to an ER if you can't do so yourself?  If not, and if you cannot drive, then call 911 and get an ambulance.  You need help and you need it now, and as much as we are here for you, you need to seek professional help right away.  If taking your dosage will give you a clear enough head to proceed to get help, then take it--at this point, I don't know what it could hurt--and then go to ER before you hurt yourself further.

None of us like to see anyone in your kind of pain, and I am responding here because no one else has so far--though someone else may be typing there own response as I type this.  Hopefully I have given you good advice.  At the very least, I am worried and want to see you get help.  So please get it, and keep us posted.

Good luck to you...there is a way out of all this.

[mmah]

Ithink unwise is right.  First and foremost make sure you are under medical supervision with a doctor that understands your circumstances and can help and who is qualified.

When I started this thread a week ago or so I really thought I was loosing it myself.  I saw a doctor the following dfay and, interestingly enough, the doctor concurred with much of what the "non-doctors" (such as unwise) were saying.

So, I've increased my dosage of valium to about 12mg a day while I taper off the vicodin.  When I'm done with that towards the end of the month,  then I intend to go through a VERY slow withdrawal off the valium at the rate of 1mg per week.

If, after I'm off the valium, I find that anxiety, sleeplessness and other negative reactions continue,  two doctors than suggested that  I begin looking into treatment for anti-depressents.  I really want to get off all pills,  but, if like you,  I'm in too much pain, than perhaps it isn't the valium and there are other chemical and/or psychological factors at work within you that you may be mistaken for valium w/d.

Good luck and stay calm.  Spring is coming!

mmah

[kstuebin]

I'm a benzo addict.  Sounds like protracted withdrawl which can be brought on by too rapid a detox.  See a doctor.  Try not to go back on the valium even though you're suffering.  It is going to take a while for your brain to adjust - it can take a year to 18 months.  There may be other non benzo meds you can take.  I tried to cold turkey off of xanax and it was pretty much as you described - psychotic.  I switched to valium and tapered off that.  Getting of benzos is rough.  Which brings me to unwise's post:  Unwise, it's very hard to taper from short acting benzos as wd occurs between doses.  Usually, you are switched to long acting benzo like valium and tapered from that. 2 mgs. of xanax would equal about 20 mgs. of valium. It takes awhile but if you do it too fast you can end up like toomuchpain.

[toomuchpain]

Thanks to everyone who responded.  I saw one doctor who said that I should go back on the valium but that I need a psychopharmocologist to monitor me.  If I am having that many problems than why not give me a script?

I called an expert in the field who also said I should go back on.  He is in the Boston area and I live in New Jersey so I can't see him in person.  He gave me the name of a doctor in New York.  

I don't know what to do because I am terrified that I won't respond to the valium because I have been off of it for over 4 months.  Some things have improved a bit but I don't know if it's because I have been slipping in tiny doses of the valium for the last few days.  I don't want to become delusional again which I was after 3+ months off.  Has anyone ever heard of that?  

I would go back on in a heartbeat if I knew if would work for awhile.  Then I would try to come off more slowly.  The doctor I saw said I am in chronic benzo withdrawal w/ delirium.

Please, if any one knows what to do, please tell me.  I don't care if I have to repeat the slower taper.  I need to be sane for awhile.  It's been toooooo long and my brain is a mess.

Hope you are all doing well.

[Seamstress]

Not good that you're "slipping in" doses of valium. That will only escalate.  You have had two doctors tell you should go back on and taper.  Why don't you pick one and let them supervise you?  I have never heard of someone becoming delusional as you are that long off of the drug but I guess it's possible if the doctors have heard of it.  There is protracted withdrawl syndrome...it's actually called something else..I think Littleguy knows... but I was under the impression it was more a rebound thing with heightened anxiety, insomnia and panic attacks.  Delusions are usually associated with acute withdrawl.  I wonder if there could be something else going on. Anyway, you have doctors now who can advise you and supervise a taper and that looks like what they are recommending.

[1fortheroad]

hi - who was the dr. in the boston area...i too am in that area and am desperately looking for a dr. who is experienced in addiction.  can you let me know who he is please???  i'd appreciate it so much.  thanks.

[Seamstress]

Just came across this on a benzo recovery site:

"If you have been off medication for a period of a month or more you will probably not benefit from reinitiating the benzodiazepine medication; in fact many patients become much worse. If your withdrawal is extremely severe at this point it is better to use Tegretol or another anti-seizure medication."

[Nickmbb]

Hi,

About your valium problem:
If you have been taking only 15mgs of valium for over 10 years, why stop! If you are taking it for a medical reason, you should still stay on it. There are no know "long term usage" adverse effects that I have ever seen or heard of (except the alcohol problem, which, by the way, new studies show that even a low dose of valium and alcohol ingest hours later, can potenialy be fatal). It actually is not a bad drug, it just got a bad rep in the 70s and 80s for being over prescribed. Also, at this dose, you most likely have a tolerance to it, and its just maintaining itself, and you are already feeling withdrawl, maybe for a few years now without knowledge that those strange feeling you might of felt over the years are connected to you valium.

But, if you really want to stop, what I was instructed to do with my valium addiction by a supervising MD in the Boston area was to taper it down by only 10% of your dose, and each taper is done for at least 10 days until you get down to 4mg....then each taper should be down for 14 to 20 days and when you get to 1mg, stay there for about 30 days....then 1/2mg for 30 days...etc. Your body can tolerate going down from 15 to 10mg with little effects, but it becomes harder on your body at a lower tapper. The MD told me that alot of people do the mistake of tapering down by measuring the mgs....it should be tapered at percentages. Valium has a long halflife....one 5mg dose can stay with you for up tp 10 days, if you do the math, you can see why valium is so hard to rid of.

I am not a doctor, just relating to you a program I was on to get off the valium. I'm still in the taper stage, and have so far, felt little adverse withdrawl. I am down to 4mg now from a 10mg, 5 year addiction. Ii am taking no other drugs to subvert any withdrawl I may start feeling, but I do have a 24hr hotline to a MD in case I do. I also stopped smoking at the same time, but I had to stop taking wellbutrin because this drug ups your seisure threshold.

Good luck!

[littleguy]

Unfortunately, all I know about it is what I said in another thread.  And that is, if you are trying to research it, you may want to also search for "PAWS" or "post acute withdraw symptoms".  Google did turn up this website:

http://deb.arneson.net/recpaws.html

[dw_69]

I've been on a low dose of Benzos/Valium/rivortril (2-3 mg)per day for @ 3 years. About 6 weeks ago ,I started to taper my dose .5mg every week or so I now only take 1mg once in a while when I feel sick ie: dizziness, anxiety, spacey, muscle pain, headach, nausia. I'm also on zoloft for anxiety. My question is, how long will it last? what should I do? In comparison this is a small problem but it is my problem. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

[lilangel]

hi i have been on vicodin es 2, ( 3 times a day)for chronic pain,, i havent missed a day in 2 years. i want to try to get off this stuff, as i think its giving me mood swings etc,, how should i do it?? cold turkey? or taper off slowly?? im so scared that im addicted by now, can someone please give me some addvice?? thanks. u can also email me at ***@****. i would appreciate any suggestions, thanks