its about living clean not substitution

i keep seeing 1 person in particular  here reccomending to others here this drug and that drug to make 'getting clean' easier?

im not mentioning names but for pitys sake will you stop telling vulnerable people who want to quit drugs to try new drugs. if you want to post here try to help people get clean, not switch addictions.

:)

[beachtowel]

Amen

[lunachick]

some people have no choice, especially if they can't take time off to lay in bed and suffer or go to detox. For some it's a life saver, and there are a few people on here who have successfully quit using these certain types of drugs. I myself have always gone cold turkey, but i understand why these drugs can be so helpful, especially when one has a family to take care of or work to go to. Money doesn't grow on trees....

[Calzy]

Most ppl who recommend a drug 9 times of of 10 say to check with a doctor first before taking.

[marcatj]

dude... if someone doesn't have a prob with benzo's i have no problems recommending it thru w/d.

also Clonidine keeps people out of he**,

in theory, I hear you.  but it's not a perfect world....

when it comes to some of the harder stuff, i tend to agree with you... but hey, that's just me.

[tzt2lady]

many have used meds for wds.   It doesnt always mean they are switching addictions.   Some folks have used sub successfully.   Some have used ultram.  This allowed some of us to get off the drug of choice while still working and supporting ourselves/family.   Its not your way or the highway.   There isn't just one way to get clean.   Staying clean is a different story but people here definitely helped me get off the opiates.

I think you will realize this once you have some more experience with the process of addiction/recovery.   Maybe not.   But I think that saying people who are helping others here are promoting other addictions is very harsh.

[lunachick]

you rock

[marcatj]

... and she knows her sh**, too... :-)

[lunachick]

it's about time someone does...:)

[Zillialee]

Clonidine is a non addictive, BP medication used to help people for a couple of weeks or so to get through withdrawal on many levels.  The only side effects are pretty much dry mouth or maybe constipation. There is no “mood altering involved” It can help someone make it through so that they don’t relapse.  As far as other drugs like benzos, I promote staying farther away from them than narcotics, talk about bad withdrawals.  Anyways, if you got on here to ***** about what I had to say to people in need of help………………………

[marcatj]

... i personally just got on here this morning  to b**** because i have horrendous PMS.

TRY THE CHICKEN FOLKS - I'M HERE ALL WEEEEEEEEEEEEK.....

:)

[Shattered]

LOL! You are too funny...

[marcatj]

:-)  !!!

[NautyOne]

I agree thats why I never recommend the Thomas Recipe.  It's just plain Wrong!

[beachtowel]

The Thomas recipe is advertized here like its the greatest thing since canned beer..........

[GA Guy]

You know, I'll tell you why the Thomas Recipe helped me. And, this is why I post it from time to time. When I was one, two, three days into my withdrawals...the one thing that scared me the most was the fact that I was losing hope. Hope isn't spoken much of in terms of recovery, but it is vital during the early stages of withdrawals. So, here's this guy that told me "Hey, I've been through this...here's some things that may help you during this time." Beyond that, it allowed me to use what he suggested to formulate a plan. Who really cares if the aminos work or not, really. It gives a plan for getting off these thing, and it gives hope. No, I didn't use the Thomas Recipe verbatim, but I did use lots of his suggestions. So, as long as it helps just one person like it helped me, then I'm gonna keep posting it, you all can keep complaining, and maybe someone will come out the back side of this hell like I have. If they do, it's worth every single cut and paste.

[bettie1976]

I need to be on antidepressants right now at this stage of my recovery (not forever) b/c the anxiety I felt after detoxing made me go to benzos. IMO, antidepressants are better than benzos. They work for me.

[justlikeyou]

some good points made, i will remain open minded to all possibilities.

and hope that those seeking a way out of drug dependancy find it.

[beachtowel]

Its not that people are complaing GG it is the point of using meds to get off meds.....it is the cycle that has to stop in the addicts mind........

Benzos are highly addictive.......There are a lot of people who are in serious trouble with Valium abuse..........

I just don't think the Thomas recipe should be glorified like the magic cure all.........

If it helped you that is outstanding.......

[bettie1976]

$hit. i got 30 5 mg valiums on monday and i still have half the bottle in my purse. I got em for me (just in case) and my bf cuz he was really needing em and if youd read my post about his kaiser docs putting him on two AD'd that take 4 weeks to work and not giving him benzos, youll understand why. So far he's been real good. Hes been days without the valium even tho we have em but sometimes he needs em. 14 years of alcohol abuse is definitely gonna cause some major anxiety!

[Savas]

Well, people's addictions vary, and this is a medical help forum for addiction, not an AA forum, although I understand that AA/NA discussion/posting is equally welcome here.

Try to understand that withdrawals can kill, and while being abstinent is the goal, using other medications to achieve that goal is understandable. There's what's ideal, and what's reality. Telling a person who wants to be clean, but they have three kids in the household;
"No, you have to surmount the withdrawals, cook, clean, get the kids off to school, take care of the baby, etc...just suck it up!"
Isn't realistic or practical. Recovery is about getting better, not self destructing for some ideal you can't physically obtain due to your own health restrictions.

Perhaps your withdrawal is different from others...? For me, withdrawal (cold turkey) means being admitted to the hospital and G.I. tubed for 48 hours due to intestinal bleeding from excessive vomiting.
I don't see ANY reason to go through something that traumatic, when taking medications for a week or two will keep you healthy and sane enough to get through the worst of the withdrawals, so you can concentrate on a healthy recovery.

[bettie1976]

well said savas

[marcatj]

Exactly Savas.  

And no one said The Thomas Receipe was a cure-all.  (Clonidine - maybe...)  Everyone says it HELPS going through he**... but you're still going to go through he**.

As for trading one med for another, yeah, if you stay on the "new" med for ... years.  If you use something for a couple days or a couple weeks to save the rest of your life.... puullease.  It's a no-brainer.

[IBKleen]

Censor..Censor..why bother typing it! I am in a mood and if I hear one more GD newbie come in her and be attcked..I am going to go off. Stop!

Aren't we all here for the same reason? Am I at a circus or a forum?

PLEASE. I have enough problems. Geez..I swore I would never do this again..I am done!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why don't we just  get together and USE????? How is that?????????? **** it.

My recovery is my life! I have another run in me..for sure..I DO NOT have another recovery in me.

I depended on this place becuase I have trouble leaving the house.

I AM DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bettie1976]

sorry yer in a mood but your comment "Why don't we just  get together and USE????? How is that?????????? **** it. " cracked me up. sorry to laugh when youre upset but it was funny to me this morning.

just TRY and ignore the BS.  (I know its hard)

[dng]

why are all you people complaining.....if the f.....g thomas receipe helps one person then so be it....i have been clean for almost 3 weeks it helped me....i still take 1/2 of a 5mg vallium to sleep....and all the vitamins except for the lytrosine......please people relax...what works for some may not be for all...good luck!!!!!!!

[bettie1976]

no $hit.

[dng]

really hope your not being sarcastic......but good luck to you too!!!!!! hey were all in the same mess....no one put the vicodin in my mouth or any one else...we did.....no matter what it is...it's all the same we made the choice...now it's time to make the choice to stay clean....again good luck....dee

[liscamdave]

Come on...

Well said dng. It is a shame that everyone knows that w/d is different for everyone, yet they will still argue. And the best part is people that need the help and advice are getting mixed info from people. There is no right/exact way to detox. If there were then everyone would be doing it????? Let's focus on staying positive with each other as we are all in this "Boat" together.....

Gosh, lets agree to disagree.....let it go people............

[dng]

thank you..hey  if running down the street naked balancing a ball on my head worked i would do it....like i said do whatever works for you to stay clean......for me thank god i have to work every day if i stayed home i would use....maybe for someone else staying home is what they need....do any thing as long as we stay clean....god bless

[bettie1976]

nope. wasnt being sarcastic at all. sorry you took it that way.

[liscamdave]

LOLOLOLOL....that is too funny. Hey, I would probably do that too.....lolol......That is the funniest thing I have heard in ages, I needed that laugh and I thank you my friend...And I agree. I tried to detox so many times with and without other meds help. And went almost 3 months one time using help and relapsed a million times before using the same help. This time I am going c/t, and have the most positive state of mind I have EVER had. So to each his own.

Luck and love to you.

Lisa

[marcatj]

was anyone arguing?? I read it all as a healthy debate!

i wish EVERYONE here nothing but a clean life and happiness.  even if you ARE wrong and i'm right.  LOL - KIDDING!

xoxox to all....
mj

[bettie1976]

we girls are ALWAYS right. and we know it too. :)

[marcatj]

eggzackery.... X-P
(jeez... I am a dork.)

[bettie1976]

dorks are rad. im a HUGE dork so I KNOW Im rad.

[dng]

GLAD TO HEAR IT!!!!! HEY WERE WOMEN WERE STRONG HOPE YOU HAVE FAMILY AND FRIENDS IN YOUR LIFE TO HELP....THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT....KEEP ME POSTED AND GOOD LUCK AGAIN....HEY I FAILED THE FIRST TIME AFTER GOING 5 DAYS.....JUST GOT BACK UP AND TRIED AGAIN...NO ONE KNOWS WHAT IS GONG TO HAPPEN...HEY I COULD CRASH AND BURN AGAIN....WHO KNOWS...BUT I WILL KEEP TRYING TILL I GET IT RIGHT....DEE

[Savas]

I guess this flu and nic withdrawal is making me slow, but I reread my post and don't quite see it as an attack, but if someone was offended, I'm sorry you feel that way. I was just stating what's a basic fact. Different people have different withdrawal symptoms based on type of drug, usage, length of time, and their physical makeup.

An alcoholic going through serious D.T.'s would be given librium or pheno. An opiate addict...well, it depends on their symptoms, situation (and income/funds! :)  )

It varies, is all I said. I'm not sure how stating that sick people in dire circumstances need medical help is an attack, but...well...there ya go!

I hope y'all feel better and have a better day tomorrow. Mine's been fairly bad, but hey, if we didn't have the bad ones, we wouldn't appreciate the good ones as much, right?

[Savas]

I was contemplating what we were saying in e-mail...on what you said here.

(I'm feeling fairly badly (physically) so let me give this a shot before I go to bed)

I was thinking that your initial reaction to what I said was caused by a greater problem, a core split in our addiction community, our very society.

There's been a split in the community that's reflected strongly on this board, between the various AA group philosophy, and the medical community,

We have a medical community that preaches "addiction is incurable, medicate them for life".
And NA/AA that preaches abstinence is the only way. Now, in the past, AA has been aware of the medical facts of addiction, and while not necessarily stating outright, they turned a blind eye towards the medical needs of addiction.

But with the changes in medical views on pain management, addiction, and the resultant social hostility towards addicts, AA seems to have taken to preaching a harsher view on addiction treatment as a whole.
It's a dilemma. They have specific rules against outside/political involvement, and refuse to get involved as a result. But this problem is tearing our society apart. They sit back and watch the addiction rate soar (it's up 900% from a year ago) and feel they're failing in their message, in reaching everyone.
     I'm not saying if your (IBKleen) reaction was driven by this, but I've seen it happen time and again. And I think this is at the core of the problem. It's a frustration at a problem that has recently changed and grown. And where the medical community used to back NA, they've suddenly pulled out their support.
It's creating a schism in the addiction community. I hear more and more addicts saying "I'm not comfortable with NA and their philosophy", and I think this is at the core root of the problem.

Ugh...I think I'm rambling, I know I've forgotten or missed something. I shouldn't try thinking when I'm not feeling well. If anyone's still interested, I'll try again tomorrow. :)

[wait2long]

You have hit the nail on the head with this one...PLEASE CONTINUE!!!!   (when you are better of course)  and the views of bupe/sub treatment?.....i TRULY beleive addiction IS a disease...and i think that is missed ALOT here...i am not sure i have EVER heard it mentioned..other than by myself...could be wrong...

[marcatj]

... the flipside is, from what I understand, AA has the highest "success" rate of any method keeping people sober.

while it's not MY way, I cannot discount that.

many means to an end.... at least a few anyway.

just like many paths to the Master.  two sides to the coin.  shades of grey.  does the Pope sh** in the woods...(oops - scratch the last one...)

:-P

[NautyOne]

im gonna go get a basket of fruit and walk down the street a few times.  I'll let you know how it goes.  If it goes well then I'll ask ga guy to add it to his post.  wish me luck.

Nauty..............

[wait2long]

????????WHAT????????

[hillary5]

wow ... that was something ... i have personally recomended suboxone on here because it has worked for me ... but i also noticed that when someone new came on here w/questions about suboxone and what to take and how much that they were being told to take half of what the doctor recommends.  Personally I wouldn't have done it or do it ... I know what i was recommeded to take by the doctor, did NOT work.  I actually had to be upped another dose.  I think anyone w/questions on what to take and how much, ck w/YOUR doctor.  Not on here ... everyone is different as stated above.  What works for one, may not work for another.  Personally i would rather be on suboxone for a couple of months, a year or for the rest of my life if need be to keep me from getting back on the pills and destroying my family's life or killing myself.  It's a life long disease that will constantly need to be fought, just like anyother disease, cancer or whatever ... anyways, i just wanted to add my thoughts to the above comments ... it is distracting to come on here and see everyone going back and forth like this ... especially for someone new ...  anyways, all have a great day and great weekend!!!!! peace!!!!

[liscamdave]

You are too funny. And also very correct. To each his/her own, and whatever works for you.....Love to ya babe...always....

xoxo, Lisa

[NASTO]

Im with you on this one ;)

[slideshow]

I see you.   Been getting your mails....I'm here....All is well, except that I am staying t o o  t i r e d.  B Y E .....Be back when I can type...... Later, be cool like you r.

[wait2long]

you have just said just what i have been wanting to say for over a month now, just didnt feel like being the only one to have to deal with the negative posts that may come from it...i have had to do it too much and frankly i'm sick of it, thank you for having the guts...thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!  the information i have read over the past month or so has made me feel so much better about what i am doing, and the time it actually takes your brain to heal from the damage of addiction is astounding...i am now sure that i am not going to be in the 70% failure rate of being on the sub for too short of time (for me)...

[bettie1976]

70% failure rate? please explain to me....

[wait2long]

can i e-mail you with the info i have found later, my husband just got home from work?

[wait2long]

get some rest hun, e-mail you later...

[Marce4]

Everyone makes GREAT points....one thing that really bothers me is those who don't have ANY tolerance for others' opinions!  There is soo much good information here. I think we can pick and choose what works for us, but insinuating that people don't know "their $hit" and throwing rude and mean insults at people is just wrong and counterproductive.  Maybe your "$hit" is a different method from someone else's but that doesn't make it any less valid! You don't agree, Ignore!

[lunachick]

you are fabulous. I have been saying the same thing for a long time, and have heard others say the same thing...of course they got banned pretty soon after...and thats all I will say about that before I get myself in trouble. But you made an excellent point.

[TimH2]

Nothing really changes

[OhioVicoguy]

I agree with Marcatj...having been through the w'd's on several occasions, I utilized several drugs that were not DOC.....things like clonidine, and especially benzos, for maybe up to 2 weeks and thats it....made a world of difference! You can safely do valium, ativan, or xanax..as needed for anxiety and sleep, for up to 2 weeks without ill effects. Just monitor your usage.....no alcohol, and no excessive use.....it'll work! Sleep and relaxation....but use the other stuff too....water...vitamins....food..

[Savas]

Huh...well, I see what a bit of a fever can do. Okay, I Think I see where I was going with this...  :)

I think...what I was getting at was AA/NA are beginning to suffer a "crisis of belief". They're between two premises, (dilemma), likened to being caught between the horns of a charging bull.

The first horn is their refusal to allow any political controversy to infect the group. The second horn is the sudden shift or change in addiction philosophy in the medical community (government supported).
NA/AA doesn't get involved in politics, and this has always been a fine philosophy, and worked well for them. But with the change in views on addiction, that it's an incurable disease, to be government medicated and regulated, they've literally had the rug pulled out from under them. I don't know of a statistic, but I've tried to work this statistic out, (keep in mind it's VERY roughly gotten) and if you take the number of addicts total today, and the number enrolling 'successfully'  (a term I use loosely here) in NA, compared to ten years ago, there's a HUGE disparity. I got to roughly a 75% difference.

In other words, NA is reaching (roughly) 75% less addicts successfully with there message today than ten years ago (This DOESN'T reflect their internal success rate, by the way. It IS very high. This reflects people hearing NA's message and BELIEVING ADDICTION ISN'T 'MANAGABLE').

Which is terrible. And I think it's caused by this dilemma. NA can't fight this shift in belief in the medical community because of it's policy on "no politics". But this very policy is causing them to lose the ability to have their message recieved.
But if they get involved in the politics of the situation, they weaken the core strength of their group, fighting addiction, which is what NA is about. It pollutes their message and work, thus weakening them as an effective group to fight this situation.

Hence, the dilemma. If they don't get involved, their message gets buried by the "New addiction belief of addicts need to be maintained".

If they DO get involved, they weaken NA as a group through breaking the covenant of "no political involvement", which compromises their message and thus their ability to fight.

Either way, the same result. And I think this is what's causing a great deal of hostility, and a split, in the Addiction community. The inability to deal with this problem.

[Savas]

Oh, I didn't forget. Suboxone is another example of a medication that's being gradually regulated towards the "lifelong maintenance" group, like methadone. It suffered a brief period about 5 years ago where it's usage was almost blocked (When it was considered a short term treatment).

But once they 're tailored' it, and turned it into a 'long term detox (which to doctors equals life long maintenance), it became accepted by the medical community. The idea seems to be that suboxone is the "ultimate reward for good lifer's".
In other words, if you can behave, and taper down on methadone, thus showing restraint, then they'll give you the opportunity to go on the 'special lifer med', which you only have to pick up once a month, earning you more freedom.

After all, how many suboxone users who've been on it for many months probably decide to stay on it, considering how 'unobtrusive' it is towards their lives? Rather than suffering through withdrawals? I'd be curious to know, but I'd be willing to bet it's a growing statistic.

I think they're hoping it will work out well. Then they can take some of the negative attention and press away from the methadone clinics.  While they love the money they get off of methadone patients, insurance companies aren't very happy with it. Suboxone would be a happy medium for both insurance, medical community, and government. It would cost less insurance wise, still give government control of addicts, and generate less negative attention socially.

However, because of all this, it has an insidious end result. Public opposition to "lifer's" on addiction treatment would diminish, causing us to become a nation of government controlled addicts that much more quickly.

So don't give up and give in, luv! Keep up the good work! :)

[marcatj]

you mean, the part about the Pope?


..some folks can't take anything, and i get that.  i guess we should consider ourselves lucky that we can, and put it down...

[marcatj]

... luv your guts, punkin.... hope you're feelin' good.

:)
mj

[lunachick]

I love what you said about N/A and not getting involved in politics. You are a smart man. I am not 100 percent fanatical about meetings, but i do recommend them and they have helped me out when I've needed support and to be around other addicts, but still many things don't always sit well with me. I don't think I'll ever be one of those people who are so gung-ho about NA simply cause it contradicts itself on so many levels, but i hope that one day it works all it's kinks out so it can be even more effective, because it is a wonderful option for so many people and has helped so many people.....but still. I love what you said..

[FLaddict]

Almost this entire post ticks me off... some people cannot tolerate others opinions or experiences. Or waste their breaths trying to convince others that they are doing the right things, when in actuality they are trying to convince themselves..

[bettie1976]

dont sweat it hun. you do a LOT of good here. dont let one person pi s s you off.

[marcatj]

ya know, trade the word "addiction" here for "religion" and it could be the same debate.

to each his own.  whatever works.  if it doesn't - try another way.  but keep trying til something does.

and listen to the folks who've been clean awhile. you don't have to necessarily DO it there way, but in my lil lil humble opinion, it's definitely worth a listen.   i mean, ya don't ask a fat person how to lose weight... nor can you call a Priest a good man just because he believes in Christ (if you're a Christian), but on the side he's molesting kids (NOT all preists - i'm not saying that before anyone freaks out...)

i've heard people discount AA because they've met a few bad eggs... come on, there's bad eggs everywhere!  have ya ever read the Big Book?  it's beautiful and makes a sh**load of sense!  again.. not my way, but I can see why it works for many... actually, it IS my way in alot of ways, just not necessarily for addressing addiction.  for ME.  but I see why it does work for alot of folks...

aaaaaaanyway - enough about my hair.  i'm jumpin' off my soapbax now... :-P

[bettie1976]

great points there!

[marcatj]

AND i'm cute!  LOL!!!! :-P

(ok - sometimes sh**s just funny in my head...)

[Savas]

Oh, sorry...I'm not expressing a problem with NA, I think it's a fine organization. I'm expressing a worry about our country and where it's going in terms of health care, pain management, and addiction treatment.
     The worry I express is that NA/AA is the strongest (and possibly only) group out there that speaks FOR clean living, and the possibility of a life of abstinence. No other group of any power is out there fighting what's going on. I was actually expressing sympathy for a problem, and wondering out loud what the solution could be. The only other strong (political) addiction group out there I've seen is A.T. Watchdog type groups, who are fairly mobilized and are political and do preach a philosophy of "Addiction is incurable and must be maintained". They're busy earning points towards "Methadone rights" and "recognize methadone treatment as a valid solution to addiction".

It's not a good message. It's a TERRIBLE message. They misquote statistics and slant studies to support their views. It wouldn't matter but they've got serious backing.

This is actually a world wide problem, by the way. Not just in the states. Scotland (why Scotland?!?!) is the only country seriously seeking other solutions to maintenance.

It's funny. I've discussed this with other NA advocates and they do get insulted, and I never quite understood why. I wondered if it was frustration at the problem itself, or perhaps I'm just expressing it poorly. Frankly, I'd like to at least get them discussing it, even if they decide it's not their fight. It may not be. It probably isn't. It wasn't what they were made for. I suppose I thought the one group that genuinely cares about addicts might want to discuss some way to handle a growing problem, to see if it's possible to do it without compromising their beliefs...we don't want our children brought up, after all, thinking that methadone maintenance is acceptable, do we?

Actually, you could help me out here, fladdict. What specifically about this is it that is so upsetting to NA advocates? Is it that they believe I'm wrong in my view of the situation? Is there a wording that attacks NA or it's philosophy? I'm serious, it would help if you'd say. I keep feeling as if I'm failing to make a point and I'm not sure if the inadequacy is in myself or the argument or the view.

[FLaddict]

I wasn't upset about opinions on NA... dont worry nothing you said ticked me off..  There were some specific things that upset me but its all cleared up now... don't worry hun.. XOXO

[wait2long]

you have not failed in making your point...but like you said NA/AA advocates wont discuss it...its their way or the highway...i would love to see whats in store say 10 or even 20 years down the road for addicts...it is an incurable disease, and this is a fact, and this is what my recovery is based on...facts....just think ahead say30 years...wouldnt it be just awesome if they could come up with a vaccine for addiction...LOL!   now thats interesting...you are such a brilliant man...i simply love reading your posts...and always learn something from you, because i am always listening with an open mind...

[slideshow]

Hey my friend...Running down the street naked balancing a ball on my hdead worked for me.......LOL...That is one of the funniest responses I have read yet and I love it.  I am not being a smart ***.  What I mean is EXCELLENT answer.....Very good answer...I am not being sarcastic...Different things work for different people. I came off pain meds in 2001 and could not sleep for weeks,....Finally the doc relented and gave me some valium which helped me...It did not substitute for anything....30 10s and they were gone, but by that time, I had slept for 7-8 nights, perhaps saving my life......

[slideshow]

Somebody made a good point up in the thread here.  Sometimes we come here with out own hyrt and anger and we manifest it on others.  I know I did that the other day, with Dee34 and I was WRONG..I let me anger about Coke make me say some really stupid things...I could apologize a hundred times and I'd still feel bad.   I guess my point is everyones opinion is important...Everyone has a different opinion and each different opinion is valuable.....Readers take what you can learn from each post, churn it around in your head, let it sizzzle from one nueron to the other within the brain.......The the synapes flow.....I do have a question.  Though...Do you think insanity is in in the brain matter betwen the neurons where the thoughts jump from one neuron to the other, or is it in the electriclike zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt jumping from neuron to neuron manifesting as "thought"?  This sounds like a Savas question......Savas, where rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr u?

[slideshow]

Oh, I am having a WONDERFUL DAY.  I wish you all well and success in your indivitual endeavors today.....

[Savas]

Heh heh, I'm glad for you slideshow, good to hear :) It looks like everyone's perking up.

Fladdict Ah, I should have thought that there are other people in the world you might actually be talking to! :)

...well, this is ALL just theory. I could, after all, be totally wrong. According to my wife it happens often!

Oh, I think I know why I'm still feeling crappy...I'm trying to cut my dose from 5 to 2.5, and I suppose it could be causing the havoc with my system. It's never been like this before...but if that's the problem, then at least knowing helps. It will be over eventually

[wait2long]

on my way to the hospital for my kidney scan...wish me luck guys....

[Savas]

Good luck, and don't worry, like I said, it's probably manageable. Just don't forget your whacking stick for when the doctor says something stupid!!!

[slideshow]

Good luck my dear.....Good luck.....Don't let the doc say anything that makes you give up on anything......

[slideshow]

Aaaaaaaay, the girls are always right.....