what a loser i am, uggg i just hate being such a weak minded women. So today is day 10 on a taper program, and of course i failed, i battled the cravings of getting high for 10 days and today i caved. So now, tomorrow back on track. I have like 60 percs at home that i wanted to give to the doc when i go next week but really think i need to just flush them. I am currently taking 100mg tramadol ER once a day and 4mg of diluid 3 times a day. Starting tomorrow i will take my one tramadol, and take diluid 4mg in the am and afternoon with the pm dose of just 2mg. I know you cant discuss a taper but does that sound good? I forgot to tell you how i cheated today, i took 3 and half percs....UGG. I want to be done with this crap so bad these dam pills are demons, and the craving of wanted to get high is just continually, does that ever END?? Please help me get through this, i am on all the mentioned meds that are prescribed by my doc and recovering from surgery, so pain is now minimally and really for pain control all i need is the tramadol. So the goal for now is to be off of diluid and just stick with the tramadol. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated...Dane
I think you want to reconsider this plan - tramadol is an opiate - and an anti-depressant. And the withdrawal from that was worse than I EVER had from your standard opiates. I mean, the WORST of the worst.
I know how hard this is - I'm sorry as I remember those days all too well. So decide today what you're going to do differently this time - have you though about some kind of counseling, or na/aa? This whole process is just so dam* hard and even harder without some real one on one support. What do you think? :)
I agree with ImDONENoMore..... Tramodol WAS THE WORST I have EVER had to W/D from! If I could go back I would have NEVER touched that devil pill a day in my life! I would Totally reconsider this plan!!!!
I wish you the best.... You will find TONS of amazing, wonderful people here =)
You are NOT A LOSER!!! I cheated on my third day of tapering - you made it to 10! You did that! No one can take that success away from you - don't take it away from yourself. You now know you can do it! You slipped...you got up right? Now start taking those baby steps and pretty soon you'll be running with it :)
I am not a doctor and I am the first to admit I have no right to advise, but I can say, if I were in your shoes, I'd trash all that other stuff and do a slow and steady taper with the percs. My MD said to cut 1/2 pill every 3- 4 days. Talk to your doctor, decide on a rehab plan and stick with it. I wish you all the best. I know you can succeed - 10 days is a good milestone!!
It's great that you're tapering but I think you're using too many drugs to do it! Think about unloading the Tramadol (horrible drug) and the Dilaudid(very bad,too). Just use the Percocet to taper off with. You're really not getting anywhere this way,dear...
Also,you need help with this. Who knows about the pills? Your doctor? If not, I think you need to bring the doctor in on this and get some good taper info and medical support. Also, how about going to AA or some therapy? This will never work if you want to get high. It just won't!!
Tramadol is like an opiate but not, so i thought. Yall are scaring me with this Tram crap. I am under the impression that its a mild pain reliever, it does help me with the pain and fools my brain that its getting an opiate but not. Anyway, i never abused tramadol, i dont get any high or good feeling from it, so how can it be so bad, if i never abused it and for that matter i wont abuse it? After my screw up yesterday, i am ready again to tackle on day 11. With that said, my plan is to continue the once a day tramadol, and just take 4mg twice today and tonight take 2 mg. Maybe, i will be able to not even take anything at night and drop down to twice a day. Vicki, i am under the guidance of a pain management doc, but to be honest, he doesn't know that i did abuse them. But he told me to just taper off the Diluid, since i have 4mg and 2 mg. And to rid the percs. The goal from the doc is to get off the Diluid first, and then once i am healed from surgery/rehab than off the tramadol. I have a question for you all that say Tramdol is awful...Did you abuse it? Im so confused, and now what about the percs, i go to the doc next week?
Okay...going to Pain Management and not telling them of any abuse history is like shooting yourself in the foot. I'm sorry but that's why you're in this situation now. Also,if you're going to take pills for any reason you best know what you're taking.
Tramadol is a synthetic OPIATE. Period. It's addicting. Period. I don't know how to be more clear. Dialaudid is highly abused in and of itself and you take it with two other opiates. This is not good. Your PM doc is advising you based on what he knows to be true and not THE TRUTH. So,if you want to get out of this mess you're in,you need to tell him the truth! We can't be a substitute for your PM doc. We just can't.
Also,re: Tramadol: It also contains an SSRI similar to Effexor( an antidepressant). You may not be addicted to it,I don't know,but try not taking it and see how you feel....
Good luck to you...I know you're confused...I hope this helped a little...
Well all I can tell you is what I know from my own personal experience - I also started out with regular opiates to help treat my OA and then my Dr. switched me to tramadol. And t first, it didn't make me feel the same as the standard opiates so I thought it wasn't a big deal either. That is until some time passed and I realized I needed more and more of the tram to get the same effects. And then BAM! - HUGE addiction. I'm sharing this only to warn you that you're perspective of this drug and how your body reacts to it can change in a second. So be really careful okay? Knowledge is power right? :)
And please, continue to talk with your Dr. as I think vicki is right - you are on a lot of meds, so I'm sure the Dr. knows best how to wean you off (or stop) each of them as you move forward. Good luck to you!
WOW vicki, tough love!!!!!! I want to start by telling you that before surgery i was on percs and yes i did abuse them only orally though, and after surgery they put me on Diluid like they have in the past with my other surgeries. I was taking 12 mg of diluid at one time so really 4 mg is nothing (so i thought). I cant and will not tell my PM doc that i abused them, but he does know that i want off and that i am addicted to them. Since my appointment is not until next friday, now i dont know what to do. I thought i was doing so good and now yall are telling me different. i cant just stop the tram for 2 reasons, one its ER so it really does help with pain throughout the day and 2 it really helps with the withdrawal process. So do i stop the diluid and just take a perc? and how much perc? Uggg im so confused. Vicki, i am serious about getting off all this crap i have done it many times before and the reason im back is because of yet another surgery not because i went out in the street to seek these demons.
What do i do for pain, im taking Aleve on top of all this, and thought/think the tram is really helping throughout the day. And once im off all the Opiates then it becomes time to taper off tram, i think that once the opiates are out of my system, then the taper starts for the tram. As for telling the doc, i just cant do it. I have had many many surgeries and i go to him on and off throughout my surgery process and he is the one that gets the pain managed when i needed it and also most importantly has gotten me off the pills as welll. He knows that my body is addicted.
You haven't even seen (or read) my tough love yet!! LOL
I understand where you're at...believe me...I'm just trying to give you information. Like Sara
has said: Knowledge is power!
I'm really not sure WHAT in the hell you should do at this point. I guess,if this were me,and knowing what I know now, I'd have to choose the least troublesome drug and I would choose percocet. I don't know what dose. I guess as it's ordered ...If you want to deal with the w/d of tramadol then just switch to that but,again,my fear is that you'll never get off of it or it will be very difficult. I wouldn't do it....
Why do you think Tramadol helps with w/d?? (because it's an opiate and percocet will do the same thing). But,seriously,what I'd really do is tell the doctor. That's me...I've had to do that and no one shot me!!
We said all of this before when you first came on the forum. Nothings changed...I'm not yelling at you at all..I'm trying to help you...at some point you'll see the distinction between "tough love" and guidance. I hope for your sake it's very soon. I just see trouble here for you...
well if this is not your tough love than i am scared to see it!!!!! LOL I do really appreciate all the help from you and everyone else on here, and i am so dam confused as to what is the right thing to do. like you said tram is a synthetic opiate, so it fools the brain. i believe that i got down to a much lower dose of Diluid because of the tram. So you think i should take just percs and stop tram and diluid? Today so far i only took 4mg of diluid at 8am and 2 Aleve at 10am. So now what? I am open hear and want to keep posting my day to day journey as today is day 11 but i did as you know screw up yesterday, but the good news was it made me feel like crap and nausea kicked in so i am so thankful it sucked.... Should i take one perc today and one before bed and no tram? Then tomorrow just take one perc 3times a day and decrease from there?
I'm not sure what else to say to you about the tramadol - you seem convinced it's "saving" you right now and I can assure you, since you became addicted to the other opiates, that the addiction to tramadol is right around the corner. I hope this doesn't sound harsh I'm just trying to spare you the pain of getting off that drug. I agree with sara and vicki - getting honest with your Dr. is the first thing you should do. This secret is going to keep you sick (thanks gnarly). Please listen to us - you have to start somewhere right?
Do you really believe tram withdrawal is worse than perc? I really cant see how this is possible. The doctors are all acting like this is the next best thing to opiates and they are prescribing allot. I want to really believe you even though you don't have MD after your name ...(LOL) because i know you have first hand experience with this and doc just know what they read and dont take them. I just need to know what to do, becsue when i go to PM doc next week he will pitch trams for sure and i want to have a master plan before that visit and tell him what the taper is.....
Yes I totally understand that frustration you're having with your Dr. and his perspective on this drug. That seems to be part of the huge problem right now happening with tramadol. Some Dr.'s now realize it's addictive, but sadly, a lot of the Dr.'s still don't. And they are prescribing it as some magical alternative to the other pain meds.
I think you should tell your Dr. what you've read here and ask that he do his own research on the med before he comes back at you to say it's a safe alternative. And I can tell you that it is now considered a controlled substance in a few states so changes are happening, just not fast enough if you asked me. And I think the sooner you get off the tram, the easier the withdrawal might be for you. I was stuck on that awful drug for over 6 years so I'm just trying to save you from making the same stupid mistakes I made. Seriously, tell the doc what you researched and ask him to provide research telling you it's NOT an opiate or addictive drug - I'll bet he can't. And I can not even tell you how ANGRY I was when I found out that it wasn't just an opiate, but also an anti-depressant. No WONDER the withdrawal was so freaking awful. But did a Dr. tell me there was an AD in this drug? Nope. Not one. So please, just tell the Dr. what you've learned here okay? And not sure if you've done this yet, but if you google "tramadol" there are a ton of links that will give you the info you need. :)
Ok that's what ill do, i will discuss with the doc all the horror stories i heard about tram. So today i didn't take it and i wont! So bye bye tram and i guess bye bye diluid and just taper from percs?
Yes,Sweetie,if this were me...I'd taper with the percs. Now this is based on what I know and what I've read and what I've seen happen. I am not an opiate addict/abuser. Barbiturates were my DOLL OF CHOICE and that's a whole other thing...
When you see the doctor,tell him you've been researching Tramadol. Show him the info.
It's being prescribed everywhere!! The ortho guys are heavy prescribers...Where my Mom lives,the whole neighborhood is on Tramadol!! They "borrow" from eachother. My Mom doesn't but...I'm just waiting for someones' house to get broken into for Tramadol!! Yikes!!
I don't like that my Mom takes this but the good outweighs the alternative for her and she never goes above 4 per day if that. So,she's okay right now...
So,try just the percs alone for a few days and see how you are...
Thanks! So far so good, no wd yet thank god and i am going to be firm here and just allow myself 3 percs a day, i will keep yall posted especially tonight and tomorrow. hopefully today will be just fine, ill keep posting. Thanks again
hey guys, ok so today no tram and just the 1 4 mg of diluid at 8am, i took the 1 perc about an hour ago and i have the wd symptoms , probably from tram and diluid, i did just stop them both today. So now what? I have like 5 clondine left and i have some xanax. i am managing considering but i just hate to feel so awful. my goal was to just take 3 percs a day, do you think thats possible? I am sure its possible but i mean i dont want to live in hell either. Since yall scared the crap out of me with the tram i WONT take that!
vicki, sorry to keep on bothering yall but i am DETERMINED now to be DONE!!! And i really do need your help because i am in a wonderful 15 year marriage 2 kids by the way my kids both know about my addiction with the pills and know i have beaten this before and will again. They are 10 and 13 and i like to keep them in the loop as well. My husband does no but not to the fullest extent, he enables me and is not strong enough, i sat him down 2 nights ago and confessed that when i get vulnerable or weak i just say **** it and take 3-4 percs and all he says is "hon you cant do that'. He doesnt understand addiction and that i wanted to get high he just sees that im in pain so take pills. I did tell him the pain is under control but he cant help me, and personally i dont believe anybody can help but yall because yall been there done that. I have a full week before the PM doc, but he is such a tram believer i dread going in there telling him what i now no thanks to you and IMdonenomore!!! But i want to go in there and just say im OFF TRAM AND DILUID!! And only down to 3 percs, if i need it i will cave to 4 percs but thats it!!
THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART!!!!!!
Yes...that's a good plan for now...we just want to help you here. Other than that,there's nothing in it for us!!
You're lucky in that your husband knows,even if he can't really help you,he can support you. I'd go easy with giving the kids any more info. They're still pretty young and until they can understand completely the nature of addiction it's just better to leave it alone for now. Just my opinion...
Of the two drugs,I think Tramadol is harder to get away from. That's why we want you to dump it as long as you have something to taper with. It's unbelievable how quickly folks build up a tolerance to it!!
Just wanted to keep ya posted and me liable that I am doing well, i never did take the 4th percocet and i took a clondine before bed, woke up this AM and took 1 perc and anther one at 2:30 this afternoon so i am right on target to just take 1 perc 3x a day!!!!! WOO HOOO and with NO TRAM.....thank you IMDONE NO MORE AND VICKI!!!! So what next, should i try to go to twice a day or keep 3x a day and cut the perc in half for the night dose?
Maybe do the three times a day for another day or so and then step down to twice a day. It's not a race ya know? The more thoughtful you are about stepping down, the better you're going to feel. For what it's worth I am SO freaking proud of you!!! You cut out the tram and are going towards cutting down on the perc's. This is a really big step dane so feel VERY proud of that okay? The better you feel about these changes the more inspired you'll be to make more. It's all good. :)
thank you again for everything thus far! You are correct it's not a race because if i go down to fast and WD is to much than i fail and give in , and that is the last thing i want to happen. i think i am going to wait to see how my body adjusts and just listen to it without going over my 3 a day. Hopefully soon it will get easier and before i know it i have skipped a dose!! It' not easy thats for sure i just can't wait for the day to dispose all OPIATES and be DONE, that is my goal and without your guidance, i would for sure still be on tram...... PM doc next week cant wait to give him all the diluid i have not to mention the tram, curious to hear what his response will be....ill keep ya posted
And I'll keep looking for you. I have a good feeling about you dane and you're going to do it you'll see. Listen to your body and like you said, don't go over the 3 a day for the next couple of days. Baby steps okay? Just no going backwards. :)
OMG!!!! What is going on here i was doing OK on 3x 1 perc for 2 days and yesterday was day 3 and it was something AWEFUL!!!! I woke up at 5;00 am miserable from WD so i took just 1. Made it to 12:30pm took 1 and then took 1 at 8;30, it was an awful day of the physical wd and i was very busy at my kids track meet all day, came home went straight to bed around 11;30, at 1:30 am i woke up again just something awful, i was shaking, sweats, cold, the typical misery of opiate wd, so i did take another one at 1;30am. Well, there goes my 3x a day:(((( As for this AM i already took 1 @8:00AM. Please note this is not the mental anguish it's all physical this time around thus far, but if it continues to get like this what am i suppose to do? How is it i am going backwards? This is just a let down and now i fee like i failed cause i had to take 4 percs yesterday.....UGGGG
I'm sure that's why vicki recommended doing 1/2 a pill at a time tapering. Try to do 3 1/2 for the next few days then drop a 1/2 - see how that goes. You're not failing - these are just the bumps along the way to getting off of them so look at it that way. You're still heading in the right direction so keep going. You can't let these little bumps deter you - just move forward and NO looking back allowed okay? It's self-defeating. :)
As soon as you think you are doing pretty well, BAM!!!! That's what happened yesterday. I can't for the life of me understand why? Well, i have a perc in me now so far 2 hours and feel just normal, just tired since i didnt sleep, i am going to try my hardest to just stick with the 3, but if not than like you said half. What happens is if you wait to long and the WD is so bad what's half going to do? I dont have that answer since i never tried that approach yet. I am so sorry that i keep pestering you and Vicki but truly you too are my savior..... I tried to post question to you and vicki but it doesn't let me so i just pick between the 2 of ya..LOL Again, thank you so very much for all your insight:))) Today is going to be a new day and forget yesterday:))) THANK YOU
The weaning off process takes some discipline and a lot of patience so hang in there - and bottom line only you know what you can handle as far as lowering your dose so try to listen to your body moreso than your head - it will be more honest with you!! lol
Well, im still hanging on here, still on 3 percs a day, this battle really *****. Physically and mentally this is so hard, but the physical is now under control with the 3 a day but i still do get wd, and i am not sleeping. How much longer to this physcail crap ends, or is this going to continue until i am completely off percs? I cant believe that my body reminds me that i need a pill, i mean it wakes me up from a deep sleep!!!! The mental anguish is something fierce, i cant believe all day long i mean all day i look for an excuse to abuse, does this get better??? Please say YES, i cant be battling with my brain everyday if i should or should not abuse these demons. I keep telling myself i made it this far with just 3 a day and hopefully down to 2 and half and the end of this is near........
should i cut my night dose tonight to half? I want to cut soon not sure when or what time of day so i thought i could take half a dose followed by clondine since i cant take clondine during the day because it makes me more tired than i already am.
Well I think you should do this slowly and give it a week for each drop you make - I can't give you specific advice as far as how much for each drop (no tapering advice allowed here plus I have no personal experience with tapering :) - but see how that goes. That will probably be easier on you physically.
And the cravings will diminish significantly after you're off them for good and have some time behind that too. And that's why aftercare is a MUST - you have to find a way to deal with those cravings and the things that trigger them. AA or NA, support groups, therapy, all of those are good places to start.
thank you again..... i feel really good right now so i am going to cut tonight and just take half. i never considered a support group, i can never do that, that's why im on here. Im to ashamed . cravings were not bad today but i hate that i think abut it often, i really want this to end. Once i go to the doc on fri i am giving him all the tram and diluid, and then i will show him how mmany percs i have left. So once i am done with the percs im done for good, so thats my reasoning for not needing after care.
Oh NO NO NO!!!!! Aftercare is a must dane - we all wish we could "will" ourselves to stay off the pills for good but sadly that rarely happens. Until you figure out why you want them and why you aren't able to cope with those feelings of wanting to abuse the meds, you'll keep making the same mistakes - believe me I KNOW - I've made more mistakes that I can count. PLEASE find something that will work for you. It doesn't have to be a support group - you can find someone to talk to privately (therapist, couselor, addictionologist). Not dealing with your life after the pills are gone will only lead you back to them. You need to think about that again.
i wont be able to get the pills anymore and since the cravings will eventually go away, it will/should be fine. I hate shrinks had them growing up as a kid. My life is going great, happily married with 2 kids , i dont need to go sit in some office and cry myself a river. Im so against shrinks. i find you and vicki and many others on here therapy for me and i am so thankful and blessed that i have found this place...
Well all I can tell you is if you think I'm good enough for therapy you will be in REAL trouble. Cause I'm not. But I guess you know best not much more I can say. I wish you the best (I really do). Good luck to you!
i know why i want the pills, cause the high is great. And why i would want to abuse the meds is because of the high. But since the cravings eventually goes away, and i will not have easy access to get them, then it's over. The hardest part is getting through the physical part, because when i feel normal i dont think about abusing.
Day 6 without getting high, and all i think about is using!!!! I try to keep busy, but my mind just says 'JUST ONE MORE TIME"!!!! When will this end? I tried to cut the pm dose to half last night and that was not successful, so i took the other half. But still just on 3 percs a day. It's obvious im not ready to drop yet and since the mental anguish is with me practically all day, it's only going to set me up for failure. Does this crap get easier? I really dont understand how our minds are so powerful:(((((
YES!! Our brains are very,very powerful!! Believe it!! And I'll tell you something else: We could never be YOUR therapy unless we got some ourselves!! I mean it! I didn't become a sage overnight and neither did Sara or ImDONE!
There is all kinds of therapy other than a shrink. There are MD's who are addictionologists,there are groups through most hospitals,there's AA,clergy,Smart Recovery,etc... getting involved with any one of these will help you to learn how to accept life on it's own terms. It's the nature of addiction to keep you addicted. Your whole thought process needs to change and only then will you have the tools to deal with cravings. You are in love with this drug but it's not romantic at all!!
It does get better as time goes by. You will feel MUCH better in 90 days than you do now.
But,you need to do the work. You aren't really letting yourself be well. You keep thinking about the lovely pills. You need to learn how to stop that and it is possible and so simple.: Don't think!! Once withdrawal is over the craving just isn't! That's a mental thing and much more difficult to stop but you can do it! Every day you spend clean is one more day you don't think about it. You need to replace those thoughts with something else every time!!
Stay at the 3 per day until you adjust to it. You're fine and you're worth all of this!!
let me start by telling you and im done THANK YOU!!!! i truly need you guys and i m so confused and frustrated and scared and just miserable. I cant talk to anyone about this because when i try to mention it just a little bit, there reaction is "your a strong women you can do it" YEAH right if they only knew that im a freakin crack head...... AA? I dont abuse alochol and for that matter i never even tried drugs other than pot back in my college years. Are any of these groups your talking about doable over the phone or chat? I cant do it face to face i am so ashamed and cant do it, sorry. As for accepting life i do, my life is amazing and i am so lucky to have all that i have, i have been through surgeries all my life since a kid and still after 37 years the docs were able to save my leg. Thats my only pitfall in life. You are 100% right i am in love with the drug, but what tools? If the cravings are gone and the supply is gone and then im done. I assume you think the same as IMDONe that thats not realistic. As for 90 DAYS OMG thta's insane, how in the world can i make it, if i crave it all day? Im so sorry guys to keep bothering you but i do value your opinion, i think i have proved that so far, since i rid the tram and diliud. blessings to all
Keep reading what I wrote to you until it sinks in....
The cravings aren't gone. They'll be there for a very long time. To learn the tools you need to do the work...do you understand? Working at being better,different,clean,and sober,will lead you to the tools you need to stay away. Maybe that's vague to you but we're all different. My tools may be different than yours. You need to find a way to cope and deal without pills. "The way" is whatever tools you use to do that!
You can go to AA...they'll take a pill addict and embrace you! They know all about it!!
Dane - you keep saying "I can't do this" "I'm sorry" "I'm too ashamed to go to AA, NA, etc." - but aren't you more ashamed now than you've ever been in your life? I mean, I know I was - and only until I tried something NEW did I find out I had no FREAKING idea what I was doing before that. Just try dane - something, ANYTHING - NEW. What have you got to lose? Now get OVER yourself (something else I had to do) and do something DIFFERENT - you're here right? And that's a start - and now it's time for the next step.
i dont understand? Do work? Whats that mean? I thought i am doing lots of work , im trying my hardest here and really not getting anywhere. AA, i just cant do it! I think the only option would be if i could go the addiction MD, if i could find one, but my husband wouldn't go for that. I told him about this site even read some of the comments for you but he just says " your not like them, you are on pills for the pain and its just your body craving it" Do you see my frustration level, im convinced that NOBODY knows what its like to feel like a slave to pills unless you have been there done that. Dont get me wrong my husband is a wonderful man but he just doesn't get it....I have told him that when i get frustrated like i did 7 days ago i popped 4 percs and all he says is "hon dont do that again".
And that's why these aftercare options would work for you - you just said you that "nobody understands what it's like to be a slave to the pills unless you've been there and done that". Well - who do you think you're going to meet at those meetings? Ghandi? Nelson Mandela? I mean come on dane listen to what you're saying - you aren't listening to yourself and that's why vicki and I are coming down so hard on you. We can HEAR you and we just want you to hear yourself.
And please, I know I'm coming across as harsh but I feel like we're both looking at the sun and I keep telling you it's YELLOW but you keep insisting to me that it's GREEN!
Have to go to bed now - so just think about what we're saying okay?
i am ASHAMED, and it is miserable!!!! To be honest i think the tram wd is really kicking in lately because all i want to do is sleep, cry, im avoiding people phone calls, etc......NEW???? What can i do new? Please dont say AA, thats for alcohol, not opiates. Next step? Let me guess AA?? I dont mean to be sarcastic but truly i would have an anxiety attack going to that! Isn't there a next step that a "baby step"? What about something over the phone counseling?
AA is not just for alcohol. It's for addiction. Alcohol is a drug. There's a commonality there
so don't pretend you know what it's all about until you've been there!!
And let me tell you something that you can share with your husband: The majority of the people on this forum took pills for pain;not because it was party time. They (we) became addicted and the horror began. That's who you are. You took pills for pain and got caught in the love affair. You should probably tell your husband that you took a lot of those pills because you liked them. You still like them. And THAT is why you need some recovery care. You need to find out how to learn not to like them!
I hope I'm wrong but your reluctance to seek out something as friendly as AA tells me a lot. I'm thinking you don't quite put yourself in the group of "I'm an addict" and need help.
I'm thinking you think you're just a bit better than that,ergo having an anxiety attack going to an AA meeting. That's okay...sooner or later you'll come around.
I'm not an addict and never have been. I am trying to help my partner who is addicted to pills. But reading all your posts, I feel really really really bad for what you are going through, physically. and mentally. I'm so sorry. I wish I could help you but I can't even help my partner.
What does me NOT wanting AA tell you? I know for a fact that i am addicted, but AA is not for me. Ok, so due to the fact that i dont want AA i guess im back to square one. i did say i am willing to try baby steps but i guess your giving up on me.
I have never given up on anyone in my entire life. Where did you read that I said that??
If you don't want to go to AA that's okay...but find something for recovery. I promise you,if you don't you WILL be right back to square one. I think it's important for YOU especially because your husband doesn't completely understand addiction. It's not a faucet that can be turned on and off. You and I know that. He doesn't!
Baby steps: to me "baby steps" are tapering down and admitting a problem. The giant leaps come after months of sobriety and learning how to live happily without pills. I know you can do this and be happy at the same time!
But,right now,you need to be away from the pills. Then you can work on staying without them!
Dane, Listen to Vicki she knows what she is talking about. As far as the statement from your husband " your not like them, you are on pills for the pain and its just your body craving it" You are exactly like us as most of us started the same way as you. I started taking oxys when I had a serious spinal injury. I started 20 mg 2X/day then when that didn't work anymore my PM up it to 40 mg 2X/day then 3X/day with 10 mg percs for breakthrough pain then up it to 80 mg 3X/day......Do you see a trend here? I was on those evil pills for seven (7) years living in a drug haze. I was taking them for pain but my body started to create more pain to get more oxys. Through a great support system, counseling and this forum I have now been clean for almost 1 year. So you need to take a minute (or hours) and re-access. I hope you can get off the merry-go-round as it's not much of a life. I will pray for you. God Bless---Rick
WOW, thanks to you and Vicki i just cried my eyes out!!!!! Thank God my husband is away on business. I haven't cried like that in a long time, i guess it's a real eye opener. i feel like i lived your life, i have been on a "merry go round" on and off since a child. I recall now how i felt as a kid withdrawing, but back then never knew it was going on with me. FLASH BACK! So thank you very much, but this is just to much information for me to process at the moment so i best go to bed. This is way to emotional for me. i pray i can stay strong and beat this....
hi vicki, i didn't mean to come across that you "givin up on me" but i am just an emotional roller coaster at this point and don't know how to handle any of this. Your tough love probably is justing hitting home just like quitinoxys(Rick) did. LAst night all i did was cry and pray for strength. I am still against AA and i truly hope that doest mean you and anyone else on here just throws in the towel on me. i am open to something i guess, i just don't know what that is yet. After what "Rick" said i just broke down and it just so happened that my husband called in the middle of it all, I DO listen at times Vicki, and i read him verbatim what our conversations were, and he said how sorry he is and would be there for what ever i decide. I think he is in SHOCK now that the REAL truth is out. I still have not "cheated", but i do think about it hourly:(( i was hoping this would calm down a bit by now. Tomorrow i visit the PM doc, that ought to be interesting, since i know he is going to push meds on me, (methodone, tram) something, so i pray im strong enough to tell him what i do know now about tram thanks to y'all. He is the type that he is the doc and i am the dumb one who is an addict, so this is not going to be easy. My plan is to tell him all i know about tram, refuse methodone and bring him my FULL bottle of diluid and tram. PLEASE know that i do respect you, just doesn't mean i have to always agree with you:)
Oh my dear girl...you're just emotional and that will continue to happen. It's a very good thing!! You didn't hurt my feelings at all. I don't really have any affinity to any type of aftercare...anything is good!! I do like AA because there are plenty of meetings,usually great people,no cost,etc...but I'm not pushing that on you at all. It's just an example. I do believe just about every addict needs help to recover. Yes,we can help you here but you need a bit more than that. We all do.
A huge problem for you will be cravings. I see that. So,your job is to replace thoughts of pills with other thoughts not pill related. It sounds simplistic but it's not exactly easy to do. It's work!! Here's an example: I knew I needed a lot of support after I tapered off the pills. But,it took me 5 1/2 months and a relapse to realize it!! Then I got an army! My doctor has helped me enormously and continues to be part of my support system. I have an addictionologist. I have a life coach(always wanted one anyway!) I swim. I go to yoga. I meditate! Now,I'm not an aging hippy or new age guru but I'll tell you: yoga and meditation has probably been the most effective therapy for ME. I didn't go to AA at first. I have gone as an adjuvant to everything else. I didn't know what or who I needed and I was an addict for years and pretty much thought it was just hopeless. I sought these things out because I was only going to do it once and I didn't want to fail. I'm a nurse so I'm sure you can imagine exactly how ashamed I was...
So,that's where I'm coming from and I just want you to benefit from my experiences, as I'm sure Rick,ImDONE,and everyone else. Think really hard about what you can do to make the time go by without thinking of pills. Something that will distract you...
Don't you worry about the appt. tomorrow. I hate when people worry about their doctors! It only tells me just how dependant they are on that ONE person: the giver of pills. He's not the only game in town and you're paying him. Remember that. If he doesn't want to support you...just find someone who will. Be very firm!! It will be fine!
I echo Vicki's sentiments, I didn't want to make you cry or more emotional I just wanted to make you think. All of us here are here to help so PLEASE don't take things we say in a negitive way as we only say them to help you try and get through all of this. I was where you are right now about a year ago and I know how confusing and emotional things are right now, but believe me they WILL get better. I will pray for you God Bless---Rick.
vicki, here flow the water works again..LOL I dont even know you but i love you all at the same time, it's no surprise to me that your a nurse, it's in your nature to help people. Do you think the tram is making me such an emotional mess? I am not a girl who cries and really ever since last night the flow just keeps on going. Ok, i will do my research on addictionologist, is it like a shrink? Does insurance cover it? Going on to google now to look into it, i told ya, baby steps....You truly are my saving grace...
Rick, not positive on what exactly you said but a couple of trigger points set me off in a crying tizzy, "merry go round" and "drug haze" I was on and off these dam pills all my life due to surgeries and when i read what you wrote it was my life to a tee!!! I guess thts what set me off, no sense trying to figure out why when i have bigger fish to fry. But thank you so very much for all your input.
We get very emotional during a taper and detox;feelings come flooding back with such force that a linebacker would be brought to his knees!! Yes,it's the Tramadol and dilaudid. It's a combination of everything. Mostly it's a good sign that you're not half unconscious any longer!
Most addictionologists are MD's, in my experience. But,mostly they know this addiction business and a lot of times they know from experience! Depending on your insurance it may be covered up to a certain amount of visits. Check into it. My insurance doesn't cover because it's an individual policy...
You really are all worth all of this,you know...and you need to do this!! Oh and google Smart Recovery...I think you might like what they're all about.
what can i say??? i am a complete and utter failure, and i am so ashamed to even type these words, but YES i used last night and i am sick about it. Please dont hate me vicki,quitinoxys, and Imdonenomore, i am so sorry i let y'all down and myself. I know you all worked so hard to help me stay on track and i failed you. i dont even no what else to say, other than i am so sorry and i understand if you want to give up on me. My mind was playing tricks on me and i was weak and i caved and the dam opiates WON.
On a good note if there is anything good after what i did, i saw the PM doc today. I gave him ALL the oxys, diluid, and tram, (there was 97 diluid's left) I told him how i felt about tram, he just nodded and disagreed about being an anti depressant, but who cares im off them now, thanks to IMdonenomore. I didn't tell him what i did last night , i i am being honest here folks. So now back to square one day one of taper, he told me to continue with the 3 percs and to take clondine 2x a day. After a week then drop to 2 and half. He also gave me klonopin to take before bed, whats your thought process on klonopin? Never took that before, i made it very clear to him that my objective here is to be pill free and that i dont want to replace one drug for another, and i told him that my day is consumed with thinking of pills(that's a huge step for me).Again, i am sorry and understand if you dont want to help me.
moving on? I never said my life is perfect, how can it be when i am like this? Serious addiction, i dont think its serious, but i do know i have a problem. I am telling the truth, for the most part. I now know i need more help than just on here, not to sure where to start. Benzo? Klonopin, i assume u are not a fan of this drug? I have the script, never filled it because i wanted ur input on it. Please explain "movin on" that sounds scary....
dane - I don't know what to say to you either. Until you admit you have a serious problem, there's nothing else I, or anyone else for that matter, can say to you except good luck. You're going to need it. I have never seen a member here in such HUGE denial. Sorry if that's harsh, but I tried to talk to you and you become defiant every time. You think you know better and until you realize you don't, things will never change.
I did admit it!!!! Your saying im in huge denial, how is that possible since i mentioned many times i have a problem, i gave the doc all those pills, and i have a plan in action. Never thought i was being defiant in any way shape or form. i value what you and the others have to say, i may not always agree or like it , doesn't mean i dont value it. Harsh YES, i assume i frustrate you, sorry, this is not EASY!!! I am thinking im making progress here and ur saying the opposite. I NO i have a problem, i no i am addicted, and i no i need help! I went to the doc and told him im addicted to all of this, (he doesnt seem to give a dam, for that matter i could have walked out with more meds) I think thats progress.
i went back and read all the threads of our conversations and i can see your point about me being defiant. But really its more like questioning, i actually listened to almost everything you said, im off tram and diluid thanks to you scaring the mess out of me. and im so grateful for that. I dont think i know better than you at all, i promise, for sure i dont and the reason being, your CLEAN and im not!
I really thought I've posted here. I've read it all before, maybe it just never went through or something. Anyway. Read it all again. You gotta keep your head up. You CAN do this and you WILL. Don't like your mind trick you into taking them!! When you feel the need get on here and post!!! Read all the stories where everyone made it!!! Yes, you messed up, so what, get over it and move on! How have you been doing today??? I hope well :) Like I said keep your head up...and always smile :) Even when you feel the world hates you :) It doesn't....you're amazing!!!
Your addiction and thought process is serious. Vicki and Imdone have tried their best along with others but you only hear what you want to hear. I hope you get real honest with yourself. Addiction is serious, its a dead end road~~~~~sara
tgtiffany, thank you so much for your kind words. Sara, thanks for your bluntness. Ok, so hear goes, went to doc, he wanted me on trams i said NO, then he gave me a script for Klonopin(not sure about that, never filled the script yet, wanted yall advice on that one). HUGE step, Sara give me some credit(LOL) i admitted ALL to hubby and he mentioned addictionoloigst, i assume he did some research, but i did agree! I also gave him ALL my percs and told him im allowed 3x a day on my taper plan and hopefully down to 2 and half.....Next step, finding the doc and actually making the appointment. OH and i did admit to a dear friend but that's it, cant confess to anyone else as of now, im NOT tking baby steps now, am I??? My emotions are running WILD i cry ever time this topic is brought up:( I dont talk about with hubby much, i guess cause he really doesnt ask, not sure maybe he is still in denial about me, we are both THICK HEADED if u havent noticed that about me yet. I am very sorry that i have disappointed you and not come to my senses sooner, but guys as you know all to well, this is not easy,and the hardest step so far for me, is this....PLEASE dont give up on me, i truly need your help through this all, and i do listen very much actuallly, i just question everything and everyone, the TRUTH hurts. OH i pray i make it through this and i do need HELP..Thank you all, Dane
Hun, i have read this entire thread and may I offer my thoughts -
First, yes you have admitted you have an addiction and you have taken steps forward (no tramadol etc) and you are doing your best with you taper and you are here seeking support. So good on you for all of that, no one is taking that away from you. I also understand that you are scared, that you are ashamed and that pride and ego are in the way (that is what shame is, thinking that somehow "I am different or special, and its fine for others to be addicted, but if I am addicted, then that is something to be ashamed of" - I totally get it, been there, done that, but it is dangerous so I am being blunt here). And I also get that letting go of our drugs is a process, and often very difficult and emotional. We all understand this.
However - there is a difference between admitting addiction and ACCEPTING addiction, and imho you are not yet accepting the full extent of what addiction is - and I think although you are willing to take the advice offered here that you are comfortable with or willing to do (eg stopping trams) you are being selective about other stuff - Now, there is nothing wrong with being discerning and evaluating advice and selecting what is best for you, but I think you are saying no before having checked stuff out, which is that old thing called contempt prior to investigation. And that is where the problem lies.
Tapering in my opinion is harder than CT simply because the continued intake, even in decreasing amounts, makes cravings so much more - therefore even more than CT a person who is tapering needs extensive support. Your shame is understandable but it is a false shame - addiction is a beast stronger than the strongest person, that is simply the physiological reality of the brain's reward circuits. You would gain the biggest relief if you could just accept that like millions of others, your pain problem led you into addiciton, and now that you are in the land of addiction, you will need to be openminded and willing to try anything and everythign that others suggest until you find your own winning recipe.
All of the above is said with love - I spent ten years few trying to stop using my way - bit by bit doing more of what ppl suggested to me, but never doing the entirety of what was suggested and therefore staying stuck. Wasting so many years of the only life i will ever have. It took me being humble and really, truly, deeply owning that even with my intelligence and other capabilities I could not fix myself, before I said "OK, i don't want to do much of what you guys are suggesting, becuase I should be able to do it my way, but its not working and I am dying here, so I will do EXACTLY what you say, even if i hate every moment of it". And i did that and today I am clean and well and happy.
Good luck to you.
If you are resistant to AA because its about alcohol, try NA - its all about narcotics. Just a thought.
Thank you so much for all of that, and i completely AGREE with you! But, to my defense, i did listen just not that instant. I stopped the other drugs, and rid them, gave the percs to husband and admitted to him (thats huge), told a dear friend, agreed to an additionologist, and actually called today and left a message and sent an email. Thats what everyone has told me all along, i just didn't do it immediately. So im getting it and admitting it, and now, slowly but surely "accepting it". So now this is where i am at, my husband gives me my 3 percs a day, its only day 3 since my last slip up(and last) , and i take clondine 2x a day as prescribed. my goal is after 7 days drop down to 2 to and half etc...., found and called the addiction doc and dealing with the awful urges of wanting to use, wd, crying,etc.....
Again thank you very much for your post and honesty i really do appreciate it and need and want all the help i can get:)
There you go dane - that's a start. Keep the open mind as you continue to move forward and just learn from others who have succeeded before you. I too thought I had all the answers but was quickly humbled after learning that I did not (obviously since NO ONE has all the answers). And no one is being cold - just brutally honest. Just trying to save your life, that's all anyone is doing.
Hang tough and keep going - you'll get there and you'll LEARN along the way. I did too but I also know that I will always be a work in progress. And I couldn't be happier about that. Acceptance is KEY to recovery. :)
I have clonidne from my doc, i am allowed 3 a day, 1mg, can i take 2 ? I am miserable with WD symptoms now and on day 3 of a taper. I mean taper or cold turkey, whats the less of the 2 evils? I say taper, since it's doable, I cant imagine my wd getting worse than this? I am not a drinker i assume cause the pills was my high, but how do you feel about drinking a glass or 2, will that help relax you?
Alcohol usually doesn't help very much. No,take the clonidine as he prescribed it. You don't want to be dropping your B/P too low. Sometimes I think cold turkey is better because it gets it done as opposed to dragging it out. It's a personal choice, though.
Have you tried hot baths and drinking plenty of liquids? That will help you!
Hot showers were great for the anxiety - some nights I took as many as four showers they helped that much. Definitely worth a shot! And I also tried the glass of wine after I quit and it ended up making me feel worse - almost exaggerated the withdrawal symptoms and made me super irritable.
And a cup of hot tea might be a good idea - that can be really soothing as well.
thanks, i really don't even enjoy wine, it makes me sleepy, and i am so freakin tired but cant sleep, went out to lunch and said i was going to order a drink and i just didn't, and got water. No, i have not drank enough water thats for sure, im a camel. does that help for taper too? since i already took my dose of clondine, im hopping in the shower followed by a cup of tea..Does addictionlogist prescribe meds? I dont mean opiates, i mean like clonodine, and other natural remedies.
ALso, thank god i did give ALL the meds to hubby, cause i am awful now, and he said to me, "can i help" i said sure ill take 4 percs please". So, he is making the tea, and im going to take a shower. thanks guys, ill be back tomorrow im sure
Sorry for the late post but my personal advice...tapering ***** and is just postponing the inevitable. It just dragsssss out the process and I never felt it was "easier". I would just be done with it and get ready to start your new life. Tapering just keeps those "cravings" alive longer than cold turkey..IMO. Good luck with whatever you choose!
Alcohol is also a depressant and you surely don't want that now.
For me tapering never worked. I was either cheating somehow or I couldn't stand the never-ending withdrawal. But that is MY choice. You chose the taper so stick to it and get it done.
Only a Psychiatrist (MD) can prescribe medications. An Addictionlogist can be a Psychologist but not usually, they are usually Psychologists. Ask when you go or call before you go so you can make arrangements. I think it is great that you found an Addictionlogist. There are few in my area and I would need to travel pretty darn far to find one.
I wish you the best and hope you get through this!!! Hang in there.
I think you need to treat yourself as though this was cold turkey because you're so symptomatic. So,tons of liquids!!! Dehydration accounts for a lot of the symptoms. The clonidine will help too. Drink apple juice,eat a banana acouple times a day,take multi vits for the minerals. An addictionologist is often an MD. If so then yes,they can prescribe. But you won't need the clonidine for very long. This part will end and then the real work begins: Living life pill free!! It's all worth it,believe me!!
It sounds like you are doing well! Sorry I haven't posted sooner, life is crazy when you're sober too! haha. Drink drink drink WATER!! And juices if you can. You need all the fluids to not dehydrate, it will also help flush out your body of everything. What all symptoms are you having?
Hi guys thanks for all the info, i am actually doing better today thus far, compared to last night. My RLS is annoying and i have really bad cotton mouth. Is that from clonodine? I am trying to push the water, but i do need to get better at that. I looked into the addiction doc, he is a doc and does prescribe suboxoe, but i am not going to do that, dont worry. I will call the office first thing in the AM so i can get an appointment hopefully this week. I only have one other doc but he is more like a clinic where there is a bunch of docs that specializes in all addictions, the guy i like is just him in his practice. So i have my fingers crossed on that. These docs are far and few between, considering how big of a problem opiate's are, you would think there would be ample addiction docs. Thanks for all the support, yall are so helpful.
Good job :) Yeah, don't do the sub thing, I've only ever heard bad things about it. Hope you can get in to the doc soon as that will help you a lot I'm sure :) And yes, clonidine can cause dry mouth. Try sucking on a hard candy, that might help keep your mouth not so dry -- just an idea, no idea if it will work or not seems like it would though! :)
Have faith and belief., walk with pride for the day will come when the Monkey on your back, no longer needs a lift.
It is a hard journey BUT made easier with the friendships abound here from like minded people who are walking through their addictions, or have made it, or are beginning their journey, either way all are brave and strong to face their addiction head on and then rid themselves of it.
But when you do/they do the sun shines the birds sings and you are free from all that, that seeks to control and bring you down...
You are in control NOT the addiction.
I hope I prayer.. NO.. I know I will see you on the other side.
Well, finally i got an appointment with the addiction doc!!! Not until tuesday, but i got one. Wow, it's kinda scary, i really dont know what to expect, does anyone have any insight on this? Whats it going to be like? I told him im on a taper now, and he just asked a few basic questions but that's it for now. I will tell him about this place for sure, and how yall told me how important after care is,and how you all helped me through this thus far. Today is day 6 on my 3 percs a day, last night was awful, i took my last pill at 10pm and woke up at 4am and i only waited until 5 to take my first dose. I kept myself very busy today with the kids so i am managing through my day. The mental cravings come and go, i just keep telling myself thank God my husband has the pills. Now what, tomorrow is a week and i should cut to 2 and half? If so which dose, AM noon or night? Or do i wait until tuesday when i have my first visit? Please tell me this is not going to be like an old guy sitting in a chair with a note pad saying "So Dane tell me your problems...." Thanks guys
Hey Dane- If this were me,I'd drop down the noon dose.
As far as the doctor goes, I just don't know...it's impossible to predict. Just stick to your plan,be honest,and tell him you want to do this taper. I doubt he'll ask you about your problems unless it's related to pain med.
"So Dane, how does that make you feel?"... lol I know what you mean about the old guy in the chair lol. I can't give you any insight there though, I hope it's not the old guy...maybe a young one ? ;) haha j/k We can't tell you how to taper, it's in the rules of the forum :( But it's really up to you. If you think you can do it, go ahead, if not, wait for the doc. Are you feeling okay with what you are on now??
thanks all. Tiffany, no, i am not feeling Ok, but i will wait and see what tomorrow brings, it seems to be the worst at night, so if im feeling strong i will do as Vicki advised and drop the afternoon dose. I dont want to get to far ahead of myself either, becasue the longest i went was 7 days and then i caved in and screwed up and it was not good by any means. Now that cant happen now because i dont have the pills but still. My husband travels and that's when i am going to freak because then what? But i will cross that bridge when the time comes. FOr now i am wrapping up day 6 and ready to tackle day 7. How do y'all feel about ambien? My husband takes it when he travels becasue of the different time zones, but i seriously need a good night sleep..... Thank you again
I would wait a while longer then. But see how you feel tomorrow. Is there anyone else who can help you while your husband is gone?? i don't like things like Ambien too much because your brain needs to learn how to make all the chemicals that you need and drugs like Ambien can make you dependent on them as well. But sometimes it's a must when you can't really get any sleep at all.
hey guys, im still hanging in there, and the mental cravings are so much better!!!YIPPIE, and i cut the afternoon dose to half today (day 10) . I wanted to do it on day 7 but i felt i was not ready. I have the addiction doc on tues, and thinking i dont need to go. The cravings mentally are gone, and husband has access to all the pills, and now finally i am down to only 2 and half percs a day. Do you really think i nned to go to this visit? I feel like an idiot because im down to such a lose dose now and i am just about done with the taper, not so sure what this doc can do for me at this point.