medical advice/contributions

i thought i saw a post from dr. steve in reference to donations.  i was surprised to see his name, since they said he wouldn't be back.  do you think if we all try to give even just a little money, that we could get a dr. back here?  not to bash dr. steve, but he never really gave very in-depth answers, and he mostly said to seek medical attention from your dr. i guess everyone is afraid of liability or something.

i remember running across another medical help forum somewhere in my online travels, and i wish so much that i could think of its name. please, if anyone knows of it could you let me know?  i really feel that although this is a WONDERFUL place, most of us are not drs/nurses, and professional advice would be so helpful (to me).

i would definitely make regular/maybe quarterly donations to a place that had a dr. overseeing it and answering questions more fully...do you think the people who run this board would be willing to look into finding someone if we all pitched in what we could?  it would be too bad if they had to make this board cost something for everyone - some people just pop in and out and i don't think they should have to pay, but many of us (like me) come here every day.  i have no idea what to contribute...does anyone have a number in mind - i'd just like to know what you guys think would be appropriate.

thanks all:)

[angst]

you can count on me for a donation of what i can afford.  i believe others will do the same for some real doctor who monitored our forum and gave us answers to various needs. that is a good idea.

[hippy]

just got home from work, im a union painter, and went back to
work with the union today, six stories in the air hanging off the side of a building on a sky climber. It was right across the street from the betsy ross house at 3rd and arch in philly..there were so many kids ,all screaming and runnig around.
i looked over and saw two doing paddie cakes.

i wonder what kind of questions a doctor could answer, that have not been answered. seems half the people on this fourm are or were nurses. i will donate, but i always have liked the old saying. ONE ADDICT HELPING ANOTHER IS WITHOUT PARALLEL.
i had to touch webster  for that last word. peace

[groovygirl]

i just would like professional advice as well. an addict can probably help more emotionally anyway, but it would be nice to have a dr. give suggestions.  it's dangerous to pretend we know stuff that drs went to school many years to know.  detoxing off different stuff can be not just dangerous but lethal.  we can give our home remedies, but we cannot  know everything.  i for one do not feel comfortable giving medical advice...what if someone followed my advice and something terrible happened.

i mentioned the donation, because it was mentioned to me by the forum administrators.  they are having a lot of trouble making ends meet let alone paying a dr.  i would hope there would be one out there that would do it pro-bono (sp?), but maybe there isn't.

if you're right, and there is a dr. in the house, would he/she please speak up?

[tex3]

I noticed that DrSteve answered a ton of questions -- some back through April 1. His answers are on there dated yesterday. Does he charge the forum for this?

Hippy -- you seem to find the good around you. I'm taking a page from your book and looking, too.

Have a great day!

[Francoise]

Many doctors have not one particle of training in addiction medicine. Or sexual malfunction. Or nutrition. And definitely not bedside manner. Assuming they know all has killed more than one person.

I'd lots rather have the opinion of another addict than that of, say, a urologist, or even a guy with a doctorate in English :)

Francois

[Philip1815]

1-No.. he donates his time to support this forum as he can.
2-He is trained and leads a team specifically in addiction medicine. Dr. Adelman is Chief of Behavioral Health and Addiction Medicine at Harvard Vanguard.

Regards,
Phil
Med Help

[angst]

Thanks for clearing that up for all of us.  I think it would benefit the forum.  Let us talk it over.  I have the information as does groovy about sending donations.

[mrmichael67]

I concur with Francois in that doctors are not very educated in pain management or the use of opioids and addiction.  I do know that now, medical schools are starting to add those type of classes to their curriculum.  That is why so many doctors run the other way when their patients become addicted.  Not all, but a lot do.

[groovygirl]

although "most" drs aren't educated in addition, i assume the dr they would pick for this forum would have some expertise in the area.  i really don't think a dr would choose to help out here if he didn't have an interest.

i didn't say i take everything a dr would tell me as "fact" - and i DIDN'T say the advice of another addict isn't the best.  i merely made a statement saying we are not drs - we cannot give medical advice and it would be nice to have a professionals advice.  i do not know everything there is to know about addiction.  i take WHATEVER info ANYONE can give me, and i pick and choose what i think will work for me.

i also relayed a message about donations that the administrators said would be helpful.  this message was a reply to my asking about what had happened to dr. steve.  

and, whoever posted that dr. steve did answer people's questions and i should look back, didn't understand me when i said that although dr. steve did answer, he did not answer questions very fully.  he mostly gave one-line answers that said people should contact their doctors.

i think donations are important if we want to continue to come here and if we ever hope to have a dr. participate. why does there always have to big arguments from some people?  if you don't like what i'm saying, don't read my posts.

[angst]

I agree that if we want medical advise, we need a doctor who knows addictionology or chronic pain or both.  It puts others on the spot when asked for medical advice.  You try to please others, but not if there is a question in the back of your mind.
That is why I have said to ask you physician on this or that, because I'm not qualified to answer questions that could be life threatening.  
The question is do we want only the support of one another, or do we want advice from a professional who knows what he/she is talking about without a question in the back of their mind?

[mrmichael67]

My post was not pointed at anyone.  I didn't think there was an argument going on.  I do think that Dr. Steve did not offer much with his responses.  Having a doc around is nice, but it wasn't like anything was being gained besides having someone state the obvious.  They have a disclaimer to cover their butts, so I do think he could have offered more in his responses.

[Seamstress]

I haven't posted in a while but I have to agree with Mrmichael. There is a disclaimer and Dr. Steve could be a tad more specific and helpful in his reponses.  Since, according to Phil, he is an expert in this area, it would be nice to get some concrete scientific answers. See your doctor is not exactly what I have in mind. I also agree with francoise that most of us have been forced to educate ourselves re our addictions and probably know as much as any doctor at this point. The help I've received has been from other posters not Dr. Steve.

[groovygirl]

how come everyone is "agreeing" with michael, like this is some sort of competition??  i ALSO said dr. steve's responses were seriously lacking in depth...in fact, i said it many times.  

i will think more thoroughly before i post any suggestions.  all i said was i thought dr. steve stunk, and i'd like to have another more enthusiastic/addiction knowledgable dr. here to answer my questions.  AND, i mentioned donations.  

geesh!  as i said a few weeks ago - maybe this board isn't the right place for me anymore.  i'm trying to help ensure that the board stays open for crying out loud.  why would anyone want or have the time to argue with that?  

screw this....

[hippy]

one thing that has helped me survive as an addict for 30 years of useing has been my experence, it has been my experence
that being critsized  or someone disagreeing with me used to
really hurt me for some reason, i began to realize this and slowly being aware of it , got past it. started realizing most
critisism was about 50% true. and the natuer of most addicts is to sit down, when told to stand up.
Like skipper said the other day we as addicts argue bothe sides of the argumrnt.
i used to argue with my sponser and then i would be argueing his
point later that night to some one else.
doctors hardldy have time for there own mothers, a patient is lucky to get 5 min. these days. i have a  nefew who is a doctor
he went to harvard and mit and 4.0 at both , he told ne most
doctor do not want do deal with addicts,and all the insanity
that goes with them,like ALL THE LIES/ TRYING TO DRUGS/AIDS/
HEPC/LOW LIFES IN THER OFFICE/ GETTING SUED./ ECT

[mrmichael67]

I, in no way, pointed anything I wrote towards you.  I feel I made a true statement about Dr. Steve.  I feel like you have it in for me or something.  I haven't done a damn thing to you.  Please try not to read into everything someone posts.

[skipper]

ok:.
i've been quiet (well had things going on). well anybody want to
know what i think? might be intresting...haven't had my oxy today
and it's almost 1:00 PM!

first of all the good doctor steve.... i feel real sorry for this
guy...imagine him being thrown into the general prision poulation
of Lexinton federal dope farm....is any body smiling??? i am. how
many of you folks ever been "turned out into the cold," by some
wretched excuse for human compassion with a f      MD behind his
name? now the good dr. steve is in between a lawyer and his mal-
practice insurence here. (any body ever lost a good friend while
some piece of work with an MD behind their waited for insurence information, before he would proceede??...i have!)

so as far as i'm concerned 99% of all MD's are good only for their DEA number. i am very fortunate to have a good doctor at this point, something i have not had since i was a little kid. now i come from a family of doctors and a whole assortment of over-educated, mostly useles s people with a whole variety of letterw behind their names! at least A MD has a dea number...

the problem with an MD dispenceing even the most "canned" advice
on this forum is a legal one. now is doctor steve or any other md going to lay the old bank book on the line to speak the truth?
well--don't hold your breath on this one.

there is imense amounts of value in "one addict helping another.
i can speak with complete truth here... no doctor of any kind has
gotten me to where i am today... i (and luck) have. if anyone out
there is waiting for someone and/or the govt. to fix this addict
problem, have a nice sit. i've even invited old asa of the dea to
have a polite discussion with me, perhaps over a cup of tea and
a cigarette....

anyhow, doctor or not, it's the participants of this forum who i
will always remember as helping me. does anyone out there hear
what i'm saying? ok one more time....I NEED EACH AND EVERY ONE
ON THIS FORUM! i just don't know any other way...

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[IrishRose]

I stumbled across this site in the fall of 2000. My life as I had known it was kind of a mess. Skipper had just undergone his first unsuccesful spinal fusion and was on all kinds of ****- Lortabs, etc, none of which seemed to be controlling his pain. I had at that point been clean and sober for a number of years, participating in a 12 step program. Being around chemicals again, even just for pain control was tough for me. I was worried about him and found myself estranged from some of my "friends" in recovery who passed judgement on me for enabling. Apparently tolerating my spouse's use of pain medication following surgery was "enabling". So I felt really alone and went looking for some help. It has been typical of me in my addiction to always go looking for answers outside of myself, always looking for something to fix me, a chemical, a drink, a man, a job, etc. I work in a medical enviornment and have no particular affection for MD's, I have met some good ones, some awful ones and quite a few suffering from the delusion that they were God. But I did I guess find some help here. Liability is the key I guess in Dr Steve's answers. I bear him no ill will, it is Phil and Cindy I am grateful to for keeping this site up and running. As advice columns, situations, etc go, they are all pretty much the same. Read Dear Abby or Ann Landers any old day and after telling you that it would not be a good idea to sleep with your neighbor, son, daughter, boss, etc, she then tells you to seek counseling with your minister, therapist, etc.  I once read somewhere that advice is what you ask for when you know the answer but wish you didn't. That was the case with me I knew things were screwed up and I wanted them fixed! Of course they're not fixed, but I met y'all and that has been priceless! I know some are irritated, logging on here and thinking all right! A Dr's advice, I don't have to pay, I can be anonymous, no sitting in some offcice reading 5 yr old issues of Golf Digest. So I can understand the disappointment of feeling like getting some canned answers are a screw job but I think he probably does the best he can under the circumstances that liability dictates. Like Hippy said and I've heard in NA mtgs, the value of one addict helping another is without parallel.

[Hinkster]

Beautifully said and all very true. Thankyou for an excellent
post.
Tom

[hippy]

IT WAS REALLY NICE TO READ YOUR POST,I HOPE YOU GUYS ARE DOING WELL, SKIP WAS ONE OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS FOURM THAT REACHED OUT
TO ME,AND IM VERY GRATEFULL. SOMETIMES WHEN WE ARE DOWN, A KIND WORD CAN MEAN MORE THAN WORDS CAN SAY.
I ONCE WAS TALKING TO MY FATHERS  SPONSER FROM  AA , HE NOW HAS ABOUT 45 YEARS SOBER, AND I ASKED HIM WHAT HE THOUGHT WAS THE  MOST IMPORTANT WORD IN  THE AA PROGRAM . HIS ANSWER WAS (COURAGE)
IT TOOK ME A FEW YEARS BEFORE I COULD MAKE ANY REAL SENSE OUT OF IT, I JUST COULD NOT RELATE TO COURAGE IN ANY MEANINGFULL WAY.
UNTILL  ONE DAY I CONNICTED IT WITH THE WORD ENCOURAGEMENT, WITCH I COULD RELATE TO.
i MUST SAY THE ENCOURAGEMENT I SEE YOU GUYS GIVE TO ALL OF US ON THIS FOURM IS SO FULL OF HOPE, AND IM SURE IT IS HELPING TO SAVE LIVES AND INSPIRE US ALL TO DO THE SAME.
SO THANKS TO THE TWO OF YOU.
SKIPPER REMINDS ME OF MY OLD SPONSER  ,HIS NAME WAS MAC FROM CLEVLAND,NA, I USED TO FLY OUT AND SPEND A FEW WEEKS WITH HIM
WHEN HE WAS STILL ALIVE. MAC'S MOST IMPORTANT WORD WAS (WE), HE USED TO STRESS YOU CANT RECOVER ALONE.    PEACE

[groovygirl]

BELOW IS MY ORIGINAL POST - NO ONE EVEN ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS AND THEY WERE COMPLETELY INGNORED AND BLOWN OUT OF PROPORTION.  

1 - If you notice -i talked about LIABILITY and WHY dr. steve probably didn't answer questions fully.  

2 - I asked if anyone knew of a forum that had a dr. present.

3 - I (ME) would like some professional feedback.

4 - What do people think is an appropriate donation for people who are here frequently to make?

what i got back was unpleasant to say the least...i never expected it from this place.  i wish certain people would not answer posts just to argue. i don't come here for that.  i have tried to answer/help people as much as possible, but lately there are some people who have come here who seem intent on making their point no matter what the consequences....

i thought i saw a post from dr. steve in reference to donations. i was surprised to see his name, since they said he wouldn't be back. do you think if we all try to give even just a little money, that we could get a dr. back here? not to bash dr. steve, but he never really gave very in-depth answers, and he mostly said to seek medical attention from your dr. i guess everyone is afraid of liability or something.

i remember running across another medical help forum somewhere in my online travels, and i wish so much that i could think of its name. please, if anyone knows of it could you let me know? i really feel that although this is a WONDERFUL place, most of us are not drs/nurses, and professional advice would be so helpful (to me).

i would definitely make regular/maybe quarterly donations to a place that had a dr. overseeing it and answering questions more fully...do you think the people who run this board would be willing to look into finding someone if we all pitched in what we could? it would be too bad if they had to make this board cost something for everyone - some people just pop in and out and i don't think they should have to pay, but many of us (like me) come here every day. i have no idea what to contribute...does anyone have a number in mind - i'd just like to know what you guys think would be appropriate.

thanks all:)

[Hinkster]

I was going to shoot them $50. I don't have a credit card( don't
use them) so it will have to be by snailmail. Thats just a number
I came up with.
Tom

[IrishRose]

I wasn't trying to get on a soapbox or argue with you. I suffer from a rambling train of thought that I verbalize from time to time and thats all I did here. I sure wasn't trying to correct your thinking or put you down in anyway. I guess I just barfed my 2 centavos worth, I certainly didn't mean to ignore your questions as far as answering any of them, I am not too sure about a forum that does indeed have a dr present. I go to a chronic pain one sometimes that supposedly answers questions and also a spinal problem forum whose doc has always answered mine promptly as well. Forgive me if I cant remember if you have chronic pain issues or not, or if it is just addiction only you are concerned about. I can post the above mentioned adresses if you think they would be of any help to you. As far as donations, I have no idea what is appropriate. I plan to send them $25 by snail mail at this point, because thats what I can afford right now after being raped and pillaged by the IRS recently, I would think sending them whatever, whenever is comfortable for you would be welcome.

[groovygirl]

thank you for the feedback irishrose and skip.  that is really ALL i was looking for.  mrmichael67 - i don't have it in for you - i have no idea who you are and what you are about - i just about never post to you and vice versa. you seem to like to argue tho - i don't care to indulge that need...in the future, i'd really appreciate if you would just skip my posts.

[hippy]

HOPE YOU ARE DOING WELL WITH THE BUP. ALSO HOW ARE THINGS GOINGWITH YOU AT HOME AND WORK.
AS FAR AS YOUR QUESTION, I DID LOOK UP FREE DOCTORS ADVICE ON METACRAWLER AND A BUNCH OF SITES POPPED UP , IT LOOKS LIKE THERE WAS PLENTY OF THEM AROUND, ALSO THERE WAS SOME YOU HAD TO PAY FOR WITH A CREDIT CARD.
#2 LIABILTY IS A BIG THING WITH DOCTORS THESE DAYS ,MY SISTER- IN -LAW, IS ALSO A DOCTOR AND SHE IS ALWAYS COMPLAINING ABOUT HER LIABILTY INSURENCE AND HOW IT HAS GONE TROUGH THE ROOF IN RECENT YEARS.
i AM SURE IF DR STEVE RECOMENDED THE RECEIPE TO SOME ADDICT TRYING TO SELF DETOX AND THE ADDICT DIED HE WOULD BE SUED ,BIG TIME.DOCTORS HAVE A SET OF PROFESSIONAL ETHICS THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO FOLLOW.HALF THE ADDICTS I HAVE KNOWN OVER THE YEARS HAVE HAD SOME KIND OF LAW SUIT GOING, AND THIS TYPE ODF ADDICT BEHAVIOUR
SCARES A LOT OF GOOD DOCTORS AWAY FROM US.
AS FAR AS DONATIONS GO 50.00 SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD NUMBER, FOR A BEGINING.
I HAVE BEEN TO A LOT OF DOCTORS OVER THE YEARS,AND I CAN COUNT ON ONE HAND THE ONES THAT WERE OF ANY USE. I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN OF THE THINKING ,TOO TRY AND FIND SOMEONE THAT HAS THE SAME INJURY AS I HAD  , AND TRY TO FIND THEM AND TALK TO THEM, ASK THEM HOW THEY GOT BETTER OR  ASK THEM WHERE THY FOUND RESULTS
aNY TIME I CAN FIND A PERSON THAT IS OR HAS GONE THROUGH WHAT I AM GOING THROUGH AND COME UP WITH ANSWERS AND GOT BETTER, THATS THE PERSON I ALWAYS WANT TO SPEAK WITH.

[hippy]

I LOOKED UP FREE DOCTORS ADVICE AND
(ASK THE DOCTOR)
AND MANY OTHERS , I THINK THE ANSWERS WILL BE SHORT AND SIMILAR TO DR. STEVES, LIKE YOU ARE IN DEEP **** AND NEED TO GET TO A REHAB OR DETOX AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

[groovygirl]

i'm doing ok - except for this...i've just about had it.  when i log off tonight, i'm definitely keeping my mouth shut for awhile. it's not worth the effort...

i reiterate...as i said in my first post...dr. steve probably doesn't answer questions fully because of liability.  i know that.  however, i have personally met drs who are not only knowledeable but sympathetic to addicts.  i was inpatient with a group which included drs.  i am currently been monitored by a very supportive dr.  i have had online conversations with various drs who helped me incredibly. unfortunately i have yet to find a website that has a dr. on board to help.  

when i have legal questions, i ask a lawyer...car problems, a mechanic.  when i have put my body thru the wringer and gone to hell and back, i'd like to ask a dr about it.  fellow addicts have helped me more than any one dr., but i like to get the opinions of experts who know the body and how it works better than me.  

i will continue to look elsewhere for a site with a dr. onboard, and i will continue to talk with people like me.

[hippy]

AND HOW ARE YOU DOING WITH THE WITHDRAWLS, AND STAYING CLEAN.
IHOPE ALL IS WELL ,I WAS THINKING OF YOU. PEACE

[hippy]

IF YOU DO FIND A DOCTOR WHO CARES ENOUGH TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS
I WOULD LOVE TO AKS HIM QUESTION ALS, AND I AM SURE WE WOULD ALL LIKE TO HAVE SUCH INFORMATION .
SO LET ME KNOW. IN THE MEAN TIME I WILL KEEP IT SIMPLE AND REALIZE I NEED TO STAY CLEAN, SINCE I AM IN NO PAIN RIGHT NOW.
BY ME STAYING CLEAN MOST OF MY USING DRUGS PROBLEMS GO AWAY.
WE ALL NEED A PLAN OR A HEALTHY COURSE OF ACTION.
i AM SURE IT IS MUCH HARDER TO DO WHEN WE ARE SEVERLY INJURED AND HAVE TO TAKE PAIN MEDS.
I WAS ALWAYS TOLD WHEN YOU ARE ABUSEING DRUGS AND ALONE
,WE ARE BEHIND ENEMY LINES AND COMPLETLY SUROUNDED.
JUST A BAD SITUATION THAT ONLY GETS WORSE.

I HOPE THINGS JUST KEEP GETTING BETTER FOR YOU,
AS ADDICTS WE ARE A SENSITIVE LOT. SO TAKE IT LIGHT.
PEACE,   HOW IS GWH AND DIVE DOING.

[angst]

If you ever read my post,or considered ME a worthwhile participant in YOUR forum, you would see that I for one supported your cause in full.  Not that it seems to matter.

[groovygirl]

now you're going to give me **** too?  i guess i was caught up in the negativity, and i forgot to thank you for your post.  

i don't even want to know what you mean by "YOUR" forum, but it is yet another dig i feel is unnecessary.  why is it that the people that i leave alone are the ones that feel the need to bash me?  

[angst]

I do not want to bash you at all.  I was only trying to tell you that I agree for the need of a real professional when we have real medical problems.  It is quite okay to leave me alone.  I am not into bashing.  I am just tired, time for me to get off for the night.

[hippy]

LIGHT PUP
I DOUBT ANGST MENT ANYTHING NEGTIVE AT ALL,
AGNST HAS BEEN SUPPORTING OF EVERYONE IN ALL HER POSTING.
i DID NOT READ ANTHING INTO IT.
WE ARE ALL HERE HELPING EACH OTHER.
SOME TIMES WHEN WE ARE GOING THROUGH THIS ROCKY ROAD OF
GETTING OUR LIVES BACK TOGETHER WE NEED TO ALLOW OTHER TO MAKE A MISTAKE OR SAY SOMETHING WRONG, IT 'S NOT A REAL BIG DEAL IN THE BIG PICTURE.
WE NEED TO COME TOGETHER NOT SEPERATE OURSELVES FROM OTHERS.
I REMEMBER IN MY EARLY DAYS INNA THE HEROIN ADDICTS SAT ON ONE SIDE OF THE ROOM, METH(SPEED)JUNKIES ON THE OTHER SIDE, PEOPLE
DID NOT EVEN TALK TO  POT HEADS , IT WAS ALL SEPRATION AND THE REAL PROBLEM WAS NOT WHAT WE USED BUT WHYU WE USED.
WE AS RECOVERING ADDICTS GET BETTER BY HELPING , AND SHARING WITH OTHERS.
MY FATHER HAD BISSNESS CARDS AND ALL THEY SAY ON THEM IS (
KINDNESS KINDNESS KINDNESS.
i AM A BIG BELEIVER IN RECEPROCITY -WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.
iF I TURNED MY BACK ON EVERY PERSON WHO TREATED ME BAD OR DIS AGREED WITH ME,OR CONTRADICTED ME OR LIED TO ME I WOULD BE ALONE.
LIVE AND LEY LIVE. ALLOW OTHER PEOPLE TO JUST BE WRONG, ACCEPT THEM WHERE THEY ARE.

[groovygirl]

"If you ever read my post,or considered ME a worthwhile participant in YOUR forum, you would see that I for one supported your cause in full. Not that it seems to matter."

this was angst's post - this is pure sarcasm and totally unwarranted.  i understand your trying to make peace, hippy, but i'm definitely offended by her post.  i am especially bothered because i don't ever post anything negative to either her or michael whoever.

listen - just NEVERMIND my original questions.  apparently they were fraught with controvery - i don't see how or why, but it's out-of-hand.  i'm tired and feel a bit sick over this whole thing.  those that i leave alone in peace should give me the same courtesy. we can't all like each other...if we don't, doesn't it make sense to stay clear of each other?

g'night.

[hippy]

BLESSED ARE THE FLEXABLE , FOR THEY WILL NOT GET BENT OUT OF SHAPE

[skipper]

hippy:
excelent post above. yeah i know good writing when i see it, cause it always hits me in this envious way.... like i say to myself "gee i wish i would have said/written that...(HEY FOLKS! PAY ATTENTION, I'M SHOWING YOU ALL HOW PETTY AND SUPERFICIAL KIP CAN BE!!)

well hippy your post hit me that way and when i was done letting my ego really act out (all in the safety of my own little drug addict head), your thinking  on one addict seeking out the expierence of someone else, who has had the same malady, injury or illness...that appeals to me. i would have gladly paid for information that was just dropped on the table talking to another addict before  an NA meeting started. (i do try to remember when the hat is passed around, believe me) what is that about "the theraputic value of one addict helping another is without parallel."

well hippy, my hats off for an excelent post, done in a manner of
eloquence, unusal to this forum or everday life anywhere! you know, one day you started posting and the next you started with these astute observations of this disease we all seeem to share.

although i usually don't post back to every post i should, i an-
iously wait for another post to the forum from you

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[hippy]

I READ SOME WHERE RECENTLY ABOUT HEALTHY HOSTILTY'
I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS REALLY SUCH A THING.

I HAVE READ SOME POST VERY FEW THAT I THOUGHT WERE A LITTLE OUT OF BOUNDS. BUT I STILL HAVE RESPECT FOR THOSE PEOPLE.
BUT HE OLD BEATLES SONG COMES TO MIND  FOR THOSE SITUATIONS--------LET IT BE---WORDS OF WISDOM FOR ME.              PEACE

[groovygirl]

i've come to the same conclusion, and i've been feeling that way for awhile...i'm sorry that my post caused so much trouble on the board.  like you said, this board has helped me so much when i needed it.  there's a time and a place for everything, and this is not the time or place for me right now.

good luck you guys...you have helped to literally save my life.

[groovygirl]

since we are all being so "honest" here - what have i done or said to warrant all this.  

someone mentioned angst always going out of her way to help people - haven't i attempted to do that as well?  or have i not contributed?

[GOD]

You have done NOTHING to deserve all the hostility you got Saturday Night.. Those of weaker character and minds needed someone to cut down and tear apart to make themselves seem stronger in the midst of thier own weakness. Give yourself a pat on the back; You've helped some of the weak-minded feel better about themselves if just for a few moments....

[Seamstress]

GG, I don't think you're going to find a doctor on the internet who will give professional advice re addiction.  As has been pointed out, there is a liability involved in dispensing advice to someone you can't properly assess.  Anyone on the internet can say anything they want about their condition.  The information may or may not be true.  Addicts have a propensity to minimize their usage and misrepresent other areas of their life.

You may be better served by trying to find an addiction specialist.  It is not easy.  It took me days and days of phone calls to find a competent psychiatrist, which incidentally is where I would begin the search.  Most are specialists in that field.

Good luck.

[groovygirl]

jesse - thanks so much for saying that.  i've counted on this forum for a long time, and now i feel unwelcome. i was up at 2 a.m. reading my posts and trying to figure out what i have done wrong. altho i keep in touch with some of the old members via email, i miss their posts here so much.  i guess times change, and now i will just try to think about all the good i once found here.

seamstress - thanks - i have been to addiction specialists, etc.  i realize the liability problem, which i mentioned in my first post on this subject.  i just thought someone might know about someone that i didn't.  anyway - thanks for posting to me in a way that didn't make me feel like jumping in front of a bus...hahah.

happy mother's day to all those great mothers out there.  to all those mothers of another variety (mother$%#@s), even tho you made me feel like hell, i still wish you well in your recovery.

[IrishRose]

Groovy- if you like you can e-mail me at ***@****, I could send you a couple of links I know about, one for chronic pain, one to help you find an addcition medicine specialist in your area.

Hippy- I am not sure what you mean by healthy hostility. That was apparently directed at all of us and I found it to be quite hurtful, hey maybe I'm oversensitive, wouldn't be the first time I was found to be that but that remark hurt.

I am appalled at the level of negativity here, so I'll be backing way off for some time now and keeping my thoughts to myself.

IR

[skipper]

hey people:
i guess all the drugs i've taken have clean gone and took away my
ability to even figure what's going on arounf here anymore. what is all this **** from saurday about? maybe all the angry and/or hurt posters should go to their rooms for the day...

i posted late yesterday. it was no outstanding, earthbreaker full
of revelation or anything like that...what it was, was one addict
reaching out to others... so what i get? some crptic message, with undercurrents of dissatisfaction. am i misssing some agenda that everyone else has not. if a newcomer came on this board and saw all of the emotional excesses of yesterday, they would have turned tail and run to the first dope they could find...

i guess i'm outa here for awhile...just don't feel like posting to people who are so unstable that one minute your ok, the next you have said or done god knows what. the worst part of all this is i don't recall anyone doing anything to warrent the kind of trearment that the bunch of you seem to need to dispence to each other!

Jess: how did your trip to Minn. go. i have a good friend who's
ex-wife works on some "some super secret unit in center city
where all "the really bad addicts are sent." i od't mean to run
the place down though. someone like you aunt may do very well in
the kinf of enviroment that hazeldon has to offer. anyhow i've
been praying for her (and you and me and all of us!!)i don't know
if i'm going to the cow town 90 miles north up that interstate
that run along the dirty old river or not today. hope your back
home safe, or on the way

hey everyone, keep an angel on your shoulder
(and remember, we need each other...hell you people are all i've
got!!)

kip

[groovygirl]

thanks for sticking up for me...it means a lot:)

[hippy]

PLEASE FORGIVE MY COMMENT,I AM SORRY .
I CERTAINLY DID NOT MEAN FOR IT TO HURTFULL IN ANY WAY.
I WILL BE MORE CAREFUL FROM NOW ON. i WAS JUST THINKING OUT LOUD
AND I REALLY MENT IT AS A QUESTION,I HAD HEARD A DOCTOR ON A RADIO SHOW MENTION IT (HEALTHY HOSTILITY) , AND THINKING ABOUT I WAS TRUELY WONDERING IF THERE IS SUCH A THING. LOOKING BACK ON WHAT I WROTE , IN YESTERDAY FOURM , IT WAS A MISTAKE, WITH ALL THAT WAS GOING ON.
I CARE ABOUT EVERYONE HERE AND I PRETTY MUCH STAY POSITIVE , SINCE ALL I HAVE RECEIVED I POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT ON THIS FOURM.

HAPPY MOTHERS DAY TO ALL

[angst]

Today is new and beautiful here if not too hot.  I just want to apologize for the negative connotation I put into the original post.  I view the whole of the forum greater than any one person here.  I still agree that an addict helping another addict is trufully the best around.  But if we have those medical problems, asking for help, then maybe we need a professional to help us out.  I will make a donation.  Groovy, we all get tired and frustrated, I apologize for the sarcasm.  The forum is far better having both of us agreeing to disagree.  No malice from me to you.  You 've been here longer than I.  Experience counts for a lot.   Peace, Ava

[angst]

For the Mother's out there or Dad's doing the Mom thing,  Happy Mother's Day.  Let us cherish our children.   With many of my health problems, Isabel is a wonder child.  Good wishes.  Ava

[hippy]

HI ANGST , JUST WANTED TO WISH YOU A HAPPY MOTHERS DAY.
I HOPE YOU ENJOY THIS DAY TO THE FULLEST, AND EVERY OTHER DAY AS WELL.   PEACE. ALWAYS NICE TO SEE YOU POSTING    MICHAEL

[mrmichael67]

Besides one recent time I received a few unwarranted shots in another thread, I know I do not have a track record of arguing with anyone.  I made two statements in this thread that were aimed at noone in a flaming way.  I responded in the one thread because my name was mentioned.  Someone agreed with what I said, so what?  There are a few old timers that still come here from time to time, but I know a lot of people have left because of the negativity that does tend to happen here quite often.  If this is a forum about recovery, the negativity is going to achieve the opposite effect.  And, I feel that me being asked to not respond to certain posts is completely wrong.  And, I was asked that.  What is this, a country club where only certain people can post?  And groovy, you did take a barrage of **** from people other than me.  And you didn't deserve it.  I just stated my opinion on the subject and you took it personally.  It was not directed at you, it was directed at the subject.  I just offered my opinion about the answers that the doc has given in his past posts.  I, or noone else, should have to walk on eggshells afraid to agree with someone or have someone agreee with them.  Also, noone should have to take personal shots.  That was wrong and I feel that Groovy didn't warrant that.  People will have their own take on certain subjects and that is what a message board is all about.

[GOD]

Hey, Skip!

Thanks for asking about Minnesota... It's almost 12:30 on Sunday, and we're getting ready to leave. It's about a 7 hour drive back to where I live... (Oh, You know that..) Anyway, I'll be back sometime after 8:00 or so. She's checked in, and not to thrilled to be there [Hazelden] right now, as she feels like a "Failure." but as my dad told her this morning, better to have a LIVE morphine-addicted sister, than a DEAD, clean one... HAhaha. That put a smile on her face! They allow the occasional vistors, so we'll be visiting her pretty regularly after she's got at least a week behind her. Cheers for now,

Jess

P.S. All you mothers out there:

HAVE A GREAT MOTHER'S DAY! you guys deserve it!

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I don't blame you for feeling the way you do about this forum. I've been staying away for a couple of months myself. Like you've said many times, "it's better to avoid a problem than to deal with it".  This forum is not that significant a part of my life, anyway. It was a big help once upon a time when I was really hurting. I'd like to think that I'm pretty stable these days and wish to stay this way.

I'll check in from time to time whenever I can spare the time.  Hope you do the same!

J.B.

P.S. To the one who writes in capital letters...what's that all about?  Many people don't read posts that are all caps as it makes you look like your words are etched in stone and better than anybody else's.

[hippy]

SORRY

[angst]

Groovy did not deserve my bashing.  I am writing to apologize.  I was only thinking of my feelings.  That was awfully selfish.  I am always preaching the whole of the forum is better than any one person alone.  I was not practicing what I preach.  Please groovy and all, forgive me.  I want to be helpful and be helped by this forum.  I have been in the past.  Tracy, skipper, hippy, meagain, rowanshyne, irishrose and hinkster, and groovy and Mr. Michael have all been good to me.  I had no right to do what I did.  I messed up.  And I'm asking for forgiveness.

[GOD]

Heya, Kip-

I got back late last night... How bout you? Did you go to that "Cowtown" 90 miles north yesterday? I'll be working for the election office today and tomorrow for Tuesday's primary, so I'll be a little scarce until Wednesday.....

Hope all is well for everyone out there!
Jess

[oh please already]

Yesterday was mothers day,and i spent my day watching my just 4 year old play,shes getting so big,sometimes its hard to remember thats she's still a baby-this is a cause of many fights between myself and her father,like all parents fight-he holds her more acountable for her actions then I ,Looking at her you see and hear a small person,smart with her mind,making leaps of logic  which are too cute and sometime quite mature,but then You remember really ,its only been a very short time of her world and self awareness,so shes still testing her world and emoitions.Shes always been a very sweet child,no real terriable twos,so its quite a shock now when she loses control and gets angry.Watching her have her tantrams,you can see a flood of emoitions flow across her face and what always catches me is her fear,Shes mad and upset but then a point comes when she seems to relize that she doesnt know how to turn off begin mad,and she gets frightened,which just makes it harder to regain control. And I know that feeling way too well.Its my greatest fear too.Its easy to love and accept someone when everything is good,controled and predictable-but easy to panic when you see someone else lose it,I worry that If i ever let someone(even those on this forum ) see the real me,they will turn their back,saying I should have better control and its my own responablitiy(Which I know it is)But the trouble is i dont know how to control the highs and lows and fears and unless i can find a safe place to learn,i never will.I hope to teach my child this skill now,but I wasnt taught it so I also am learning at the same time.ANghts is right ,this should be a safe place,begin alike in so many ways,we all have a certain common ground of fears and know what can and will terrify each other.Not begin heard,and judged for our shortcomings(which we are all very self aware of)are hot spots for alot of us and up until recently we would all just self medicate the pain away,but we dont now and were all searching for new ways to cope with some of the most inteance human feelings you can have,of security and acceptance even when we are begin the real us,and its hard ,and very very scary and like a four year old we puff up with false barvado and anger to protect ourselfs.I have read that when you are drunk and wasted you do not experance any emotional growth,and so some of us are quite new at this,these feelings and need some time to learn how to manage and control,but mostly I think and hope that like I do with emily,I can get some understanding,and encouragement and even forgiveness as I grow ,because its hard enough to be 4 or 37 when your just learning how to take those baby steps into a healthy,happy and loving world.No more then any of us would punish or ridicule a child for attempting to learn or grow,should we do the same to each other.I found great peace and comfort here on this forum and i pray that anyone\everyone who is looking for the way will get the comfort Ive gotten>They say you cant pick your family,its just a luck of the draw,in someways people here are more family(We do share the gentic link of addiction )and even though sometime someone here can make me laugh,cry or scream,you have also allowed me to live and feel these feelings which I think is better then begin numb anymore.    laura   today I am a grateful addict

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Well I'm back again...couldn't resist the temptation after I downloaded some family pictures.  It's so easy to get involved here, especially when we are already addictive people!

There should be no shame in this forum...really.  I've apologized many times here to folks I've offended.  I can be an ******* anywhere and so can you! Mostly, I try to be nice like the way my Mommy raised me to be.

I hate the bad days when people can't even look me in the eye because of my attitude.  I relish the times when I've been good and interact civily with all I encounter.  Good days, bad days, but nonetheless..."my days". Thank God I've never lost my conscience and have the ability to try and get better day by day. Patience is truly a virtue, isn't it?

J.B.

[IrishRose]

Well I for one was having an overly sensitive day the other day. Sometimes I think too much. Blessings to all, IR.

[Mace]

I have a question that my doctor could not answer but I think I may find some information here. After 4 years of opiate use for chronic pain I was feeling tired and had little or no energy! Sound familiar to any one? Well after complaining of these symptoms at several visits to my doctor he did a blood work up and found that my testosterone level was very low! He prescribed something called

[OxyDout]

I used the question mark because I wasn't sure if that was your name. Anyway, I'm a little confused. I understand the being tired, your body is used to the opiates and when you detox you can barely move, so that is very much something we have all experienced. What I don't get is why your doctor is prescribing you androgel. Does he know about your drug habit? or did he just suggest the androgel to get you going. Androgel is much like any other Andro supplement you can purchase in GNC and or other supplement/vitamin stores. Its a "legal" testosterone (sp) boost. if you plan on staying on it for a long period of time you should buy an anti-estrogen, something like "M" made by sci-fit. There are plenty of others, either way you should take one because your estrogen level will rise, not a huge issue, but it helps your body along the process. So, I guess my question is why your doctor suggested this? I hope your doing well, it sounds like it.

GWH

[Mace]

First I need to apologize for posting incorrectly. After reviewing this page I believe I should have started another post and not just jump on the bottom of this one. The name is indeed

[groovygirl]

i know what you mean about having to take more and more meds to counteract the effects of the original ones you were taking....it seems to be a vicious circle. i did a little digging around, because i was curious about opiates and low testosterone levels - my friend has been trying conceive, and her husband takes pain meds (he never is "in the mood") - i found a bunch of info indicating that opiates wreak havoc on your drive and testosterone levels.

i tried to copy a link to put here for you but was unable.  i don't know enough about it to go into any detail, so maybe you could look around the net...you would probably be surprised how much info on the subject is out there. good luck:)

[Mace]

The most common test used to detect drugs in urine is an imunoassy technic meaning that the urine is tested for antibodies. The body see the drug as a poison and attempts to filter it using the liver and kidneys. A reagent is added to the urine and these antibodies are detected and counted. If the test is performed correctly it is extremely accurate. Attempting to drink large amounts of fluids to dilute the sample can also be determined by the lab tech. The test will show that you are taking an opiate. The lab tech can then do another test to determine exactly what opiate you have taken over the last 72 hours or so. Hydrocodone (Vicodin) is detectable in the urine after approx. 3 hours and the antibodies will be present for approx. 72 hours. The products like golden seal etc. that are sold on the internet are all bunk. If you read the instructions they say to drink 48 oz. Of water before the test. They are trying dilute the sample, but this works only if you do the test when your urine is diluted in your bladder and if the lab tech neglects to test the specific gravity and creatinie level of the sample.  Sorry but the only way to not show positive is to quit the drug at least 72 hours prior to the test.

[Dr.X]

How wffective ar Urine analysis' for detecting Vicodin?

I used in the am, and 8 hours later I had a UA...Will it show up?
I drank a large quantity of water, will tihs flush it out?
I took about70mgs.
Dr. X

[angst]

it will probably show unless you used a mask.  then you have to take it within hours of your test.  i've used diuretics and it still showed up.  sorry for the bad news.

[rowanshyne]

By now you've read the previous posts.
The Vicodin will show in your UA.  Years, and years, and years ago, when I was being followed by the Board of Nursing, Darvocet would show up in my urine for *a week* after using.
70 mg. is a pretty hefty dose.
I'm so sorry, and I know you're scared to death.  
Have you gotten *any* help, support systems, or were you trying to do it alone?
Come here more often, every day, several times a day.  You don't *have* to do this alone.  You're *not* a horrible, bad, wicked, gutter slime.  You're an addict and so am I, and it SUCKS!!!, but, there you go.  
Please, come here more often, tell us what's going on *before* you have a UA.
Okay?

BB
Wren

[Dr.X]

I have to have another UA today! I have not used now in almost 24 hours...I also can take the test in the PM. I do have support, I have a group I will be meeting with soon, Dr.'s, MD's, pharmacists etc. I will then be calling my case worker and be proactive in telling him. I have not signed any official contract as of today but I will! I did the test because my wife wanted me too...she thought I was done using but I found a stash of stuff and took it.  Thanks for all your love and support.
Dr.X

[Darkside]

Hi, I just popped in here during my withdrawling from oxycontin,100 mgs a day for 5 yrs, also taken roxicondone 5mg 60, I stopped my oxy's down to 2 aday (two 20mg aday) for a period of 5 days , then went to one 20mg a day for with 6 5mg of roxi's with 20 0f oxy's for 3 days then 15 5mg roxicondone's, for 3 days , then 6 5mg, roxi for 2 days , I was given 4 5mg methadone, and took 2 , 5 mg tabs of meth  early morning ,when the Darkside came for me , and did that same dose,the next same darkside momentnext night ,sleeped 3 hrs woke up early feeling good and went to sleep another 2.5 hrs and woke up pretty good alittle flu type feeling, but only after smoking NORTHENLIGHTS ,(good smoke)and hope that my days are coming where I grab my addiction and kick its royal ass out of here, sorry for venting there but NO,NO,NO I will not pay for a DR to Monitor places like this we are more informative than those Idiots who got us addicted, you and me are like there lab rats,who when tell oxycontin are safe and all that bullshit, when I told him no more percocets,(sorry folks).Thats what they want more money from us,they all get kickbacks from the big pharmacutical companys the more they write the more they get . getting thru withdrawl (withdrawal) can be done cold turkey Im doing it , lets get together and sue these DR's who need to be taught a lesson in life, and get them back in control,contact me back @ naval_hawk @msn.com ,we can get off this **** and go on a Fuckin Cruise together, with all who helped us during our worst times and celebrate breaking free on our lawsuit money,Ha,HA,HA, again this helped getting my frustrations out and good luck to all who read Peace ,and God Bless America, and by the way when your cramping up try some minor exercise go for a walk get those endorphins in your brain to recognize things again and you will start feeling better I promise. Im not over yet I took tonight off from work and will try nothing for pills tonight for first time wish me luck!

Peace The Darkside CT

[Aimee1]

Hi there Darkside!

I dont mean to sound so full of myself however, would like to vent a little myself regarding your post.  I want to say that although the docs prescribed the narcotics to us addicts, they surely didnt force us to come back and keep taking them.  We are all the same in some of the things we did to acquire them.  Gee, how I remember clearly how addicts make up so many "unique" and very fake illnesses and ailments to get their drug of choice.  The drug Oxycontin is a very strong drug and should only be prescribed for the patient in extreme pain.  Pain is different for all of us and is treated in different ways of RXing.  I differ with you on your opinion of the doctor being at fault here and simply cannot let my opinion rest.  While doctors do get compensated (not monetarily) for their prescribing of certain drugs, they are also being monitored by the DEA.  We must realize that WE did this to ourselves.  Not the doctor, not the pharmacist and surely not the medication if we TAKE IT AS PRESCRIBED AND STOP WHEN THE PAIN IS GONE.  This medication Oxycontin is a wonderful drug and should be taken as prescribed.  If taken as prescribed, one would not have the high associated with the high one gets while chewing, snorting, shooting, etc.  Please, rethink what you have posted here as most of the addicts here will admit that their taking is solely the responsibility of their own.  This is just my opinion and we all know how that goes...  AIMEE