meth vs sub

Buprenorphine, marketed under the brand name Suboxone, was developed as a safer alternative for treating people addicted to heroin and painkillers compared to methadone. It was also designed to be resistant to abuse, but it hasn't turned out that way.

In spite of all the safeguards built into the drug when it was developed by the National Institute on Drug Abuse and pharmaceutical firm Reckitt Benckiser, addicts are diverting the drug from its original use by crushing the pills, injecting them and even selling them on the street.

"The issue of diversion has been out there since 2004," said Dr. H. Westley Clark, director of the Center for Substance Abuse Treatment. "We've been concerned about that, and we will continue to be concerned about that.

There have been a lot of threads putting meth against sub. My posts were never supposed to be about one or the other. They were about what worked well for me and several people. I am not trying to put down sub but I am trying to show their are different routes for everyone. I beat Oxys the way I did with Methadone which I use for five days and this only was because my only goal was to get through the physical withdrawals of opiates. using methadone for five days allowed me to do so because 5 days was not long enough for my body to become physically dependent on methadone but was long enough for me to skip over the oxy withdrawals without having to experience them. Once again I am not advising anyone to use methadone or to not use sub. I would just like some people to understand that everyone has different goals when it comes to getting off of pills and what may not work for one person may work for another and vise versa. My only goal was to not have physical withdrawals and to not miss work.
I am not trying to get into arguments with the people on this forum. I am not trying to advise anyone to use methadone or to not use sub however if someone asks me how I got off pills without withdrawls I do not see what is wrong in telling them how when they asked. That is what I see everyone else doing. I feel I have researched both Sub and Meth far more then most people in the forums and I have warned people who have asked about the negative and positive effects of each. I don't see the SUB Pushers doing that. Girly posted a very good comment about Sub doctors which I will copy and repost in a minute. Both Meth and Sub have saved some peoples lives and ruined others. People choosing to get off one drug by using another should be aware of all the positives and negatives of their choices. And once again I see nothing wrong with sharing my experiences when asked. Even if  I'm not asked. And again I do not advise anyone to follow what I i but to review and research all they can on their own, Listen to everyones experience and make their own choice. Meth, Sub, cold turkey Rehab detox or whatever.
I am glad that I am off of pills and wish the best of luck to everyone trying to get off.

[wait2long]

but your research is wrong about suboxone...it cannot be abused...subutex can.
you are purposely confusing the 2 drugs...subutex is straight buprenorphine...
suboxone is buprenorphin with naloxone...
again...do you know what naloxone is?

ANYONE who crushes and injects suboxone will be deathly sick, immediate withdrawals.  no buzz involved in that at all. its a fact.
have you ever done suboxone or subutex???  because in all honesty its kind of hard to claim you know about it so well when you actually havent been there....
and the same hold true for advising first time users to take high doses of methadone for their first time ever...
methadone death stories will be in my journal...

[catchiec]

About Suboxne
You can go to opiatedetox DOT com and read stories and suggestions from people coming off Suboxone and Subutex.
If you are on this stuff for more than 21 days or so the acute withdrawal lasts about 2 weeks (the physical stuff) but the lethargy and PAWS last a lot longer then that from pain meds.  It's a very powerful drug and the doctors don't realize how hard it is to get off so they prescribe it wihtout warning their patients.  Honestly, it's not the miracle drug it's made out to be.  Theyh are finding out more and more about it.  
Bottom line is no one is getting off easy with this.  It's a crappy ride at the amusement park of addiction but you CAn eventually get off and start a new ride, the ride of life.

I don not understand how a lot of you can not reliaze that doctors often keep people on drugs much longer and at higher doses then need be. Pescription pills are a goldmine. And that is how a lot of people became addicted to pills in the first place, because of doctors who don't mind keeping their patients on them year after year as long as they have insurance which is one of the underlying  reasons why prolonged sub use or MMT is suggested in the first place. Doctors are often the real pushers.  

Anyone choosing to do sub should reliaze their doctor is going to often try to keep them on it for as long as possible. If you choose to stay on sub for a while even as short as a few months you are in for very bad withdrawals which will be worse then the few days of cold turkey you would go through otherwise. Anyone choosing to go on sub should apt for a short term detox if possible for their situation. Some people will need to stay on it much longer just be aware of what your in for when you finally end up withdrawing.

[cathy5841]

you may be saying now that you are not telling ppl to use methadone but you have told them too use it.  i read your post.  and anybody can still read those post and it was/is responsible.  no one here has told some one else to detox with sub bought off the street.. ihave read your post stating you bought metodone off the street took it for 5 days yada yada  and stated do what i did.  so yes your are pushing methadone.

[confused456]

my 2 cents, you have to detox off either, or, so why not just go thru the w/d from pills? That makes no sense to me????

[catchiec]

Confused. I think your right and that would be the best way to go if you can afford to miss work or if you can take time off from work. Wait to long I am not getting my information wrong! And sub which was used in europe before the united states has a lot of abusers. The longer sub is out and the more avaliable is the more it is being abused. It is sold where I live for 15 - 20 dollars a pill and a lot of kids are taking them and crushing, injecting or snorting them for fun and that is why it is causing more and more deaths from improper use. the longer it is out the more deaths it will cause the same as methadone. If used the right way both are helpful

[sadinmichigan]

omg!!! i'm gonna have a heart attack...I personally know alot about methadone...i didn't take sub..however..i haven't talked to a single person who got off sub with out w/ds of some kind and in my own opinion...the person on pills...just needs to deal with those w/ds..not the worst of the others..and w/ds aren't a picnic no matter what the hell your taking..but i am permanently scarred from methadone..i don't think i can give an objective opinion...all i know personally of sub is..nobody that i saw taking it got off it like the clinic made sound so frickin easy...f--k this upsets me..i'm sorry

[sadinmichigan]

Ok i don't care who gets mad at me...NOBODY should take either to get off pills!!! i have taken a whole he!! of alot of pills..and the w/ds i just had was nothing to what i KNOW about methadone and what I've seen others go through trying to get off sub...the fact is..NOBODY WANTS TO SUFFER W/DS

[jamielee55]

I was on methadone for a year and now I am on suboxone. I had a lot of terrible side effects from methadone. Weight gain, terrible damage on my teeth, ect... and I have only been on suboxone for about 4 months. My docor tells me that if you wean down slow enough, there should be little to no withdrawals. I haven't experienced it myself yet. But I know for me, suboxone saved my life. There are no miracle cures for addiction, everything has side effects. My opinion is that suboxone is safer. You can't get high on suboxone, I was able to get high on methadone, but this is only my opinion, I am not a doctor.

[cathy5841]

w/ds are our bodies gettin back at us for abusing it for so long.  lol  and i think if ppl suffer the w/ds did like i did c/t they will maybe be a little less apt to get back on the pills.  i know my w/ds are permenantly engraved in my brain.  it was hell

[confused456]

Well, I know someone personally who DID get high off it. She will be here in the morning and give her thoughts I am sure of it!

[confused456]

I have to rewrite what I wrote due to lack of specifying what this friend got high from. I can't remember for sure it was one of the sub's but I am pm'ing her to chime in, no friction for wait2long. That is why I wanna correct myself. Truly sorry! I need all the facts first, but I think meth is bad, bad, bad $h**!!

[wait2long]

suboxone cannot be abused...naloxone...look it up.
subutex can

[confused456]

wait: please read up to my last comment, I rephrased it, I am sorry.

[wait2long]

i saw it hun...no worries...ok? i dont even know what your apologizing for hun?   LOL!
watch for a PM...

[confused456]

OK, thanks!

[usarmymedic1]

naloxone trade name Narcan is a opiate antagonists

the drug binds with the dopimine receptors and blocking the opiate from attaching to it naloxone has a stronger bond with the receptors in the brain. it also binds with the red blood sells and the same atachment location than an opiate would so in turn no opiate get to were it goes to get you high it also will kick off any opiate that is already attached to the dopine receptors

primary use is to control opiate over dose primary route given is IV

so if someone is trying to get high off of suboxone they can't but that does not mean they don't try and keep abuseing the drug to try in turns would cause an over dose of the narcotic

so it seems you are both right about the abuse it is not going to get you  the high and that is why people trying to use it for the high overdoses on it

medic

[usarmymedic1]

I to did a quick taper of methadone 8 days starting at 30mg it worked for me would I advise it being used no but I also did it through a OPT detox center were I was monitored everyday by the dr and the nurse along with the social workers that I had to see. It is great that every one has a defferent means of getting off the pills it gives new members alot of info to talk to there medical proffesional about. there is no one way but there is a wrong way and that is not to try every means out there to stop. I myself was sceptical about useing methadone to get off of hydro's but I was at the point of I would try almost anything and since the detox center I went had not gotten the clearance for suboxone yet they used methadone. nothing should ever be baught off the street cause who knows what it has been through to get there..
medic

[catchiec]

That was what worked for me. Methadone saved my life. A five day detox and I was off both pills with no withdrawals. And that was my only goal. To get offf oxys without having to go through withdrawls or miss work. I also always tell people if u take methadone for to long you will become dependent on it and have horrible withdrawals. Same as with Sub

[flmagi]

Ok so we all agree, most all drugs can be abused, misused, and taken incorrectly. Everyone should be aware of all options and make an informed decision etc etc.
Can we now stop beating a dead horse? Its getting really monotomous.

[usarmymedic1]

Buprenorphine is a derivative of thebaine, an extract of opium. The drug is an opioid (synthetic opiate) partial agonist and thus can produce the euphoria, analgesia, and sedation associated with opiates; however, while it stimulates the same brain receptors as full opiate agonists such as heroin and morphine, buprenorphine produces a lesser degree of sedation and respiratory depression than those drugs and causes no significant impairment of cognitive or motor skills. Like methadone, buprenorphine reduces cravings for heroin and other opiates and reduces withdrawal symptoms, thus helping addicted individuals to stop abusing opiates. Also like methadone, buprenorphine blocks the effects of heroin by binding to the same opiate receptors as heroin; consequently, opiate addicts who use buprenorphine are not able to get a high from heroin.

Buprenorphine also has a "ceiling effect" whereby increased doses of the drug do not produce increased effects after a certain point, or ceiling. In fact, high doses of the drug can actually precipitate withdrawal symptoms in opiate addicted individuals. Because of this ceiling effect, buprenorphine is less susceptible to abuse than other opiates; however, because high doses of the drug can cause withdrawal symptoms, buprenorphine is not as effective as methadone in treating severely opiate-addicted individuals who require larger doses of opiates in order to maintain treatment therapy. SAMHSA advises that the best candidates for buprenorphine therapy are those patients receiving 30 milligrams or less of methadone. Buprenorphine is estimated to be effective for approximately one-half to two-thirds of the opiate abuser population.

A New Form of Buprenorphine Administration

A new, extended-release formulation of buprenorphine, called a depot formulation, currently is being developed. This depot formulation is an injectable solution that contains tiny biodegradable capsules of buprenorphine. As the capsules disintegrate, they slowly release the drug over several weeks. This new formulation of buprenorphine is designed for administration in a physician's office once every 4 to 6 weeks and could further safeguard against diversion by eliminating the need for patients to possess buprenorphine in tablet form.

A new, extended-release formulation of buprenorphine, called a depot formulation, currently is being developed. This depot formulation is an injectable solution that contains tiny biodegradable capsules of buprenorphine. As the capsules disintegrate, they slowly release the drug over several weeks. This new formulation of buprenorphine is designed for administration in a physician's office once every 4 to 6 weeks and could further safeguard against diversion by eliminating the need for patients to possess buprenorphine in tablet form.

Suboxone also can be diverted and abused; however, it is more likely to be abused by individuals who are addicted to low doses of opiates since it can precipitate withdrawal symptoms in high doses. The naloxone in Suboxone guards against abuse by causing withdrawal symptoms in abusers who crush and either inject or snort the drug; however, law enforcement and pharmacist reporting indicates that Suboxone is being abused successfully when snorted.

[wait2long]

tell me about it....UGH!
its old news, everyone knows how dangerous methadone is...get over it already.

suoxone cant be abused...you shoot it into your veins just once and you will never do it again..naloxone prevents overdoses, this is what they give you in the hospital when you come in with a methadone overdose or heroin...no overdoses have ever happened with suboxone....
subutex is a different story...people LIKE to confuse the 2 ...

good night magi...talk to you tomorrow...xxoo

[sadinmichigan]

thankyou!!!! You are right...beating a really dead horse

[wait2long]

its not just dead...its now suffering from decomposition...

[usarmymedic1]

Mar 05, 2008 – In a February 12th 2008 article from the Baltimore Sun, it was revealed that SAMHSA (Substance Abuse and Mental Health Administration) withheld information on reported abuses of Suboxone. It is reported that over 2 years ago, SAMHSA learned that people were misusing and abusing this drug by injecting it to get a high. Despite knowing that this drug is being abused and sold on the streets, SAMHSA failed to inform the Congress and the FDA, who subsequently passed The Office of National Drug Control Policy Reauthorization Act of 2006 (P.L. 109-469 ONDCPRA). This act increased the limit of people that can be treated in private physician offices from 30 to 100. HARMD Inc. (Helping America Reduce Methadone Deaths) questions whether Congress would have approved increasing the patient limit had they known the truth about this drug.

The deaths from Methadone started rising in 2001 when SAMHSA obtained oversight of Methadone for treatment of opioid dependence from the FDA. Even though the deaths started increasing around 2001, SAMHSA waited to convene a meeting on Methadone Mortality until 2004. When the deaths continued to rise without interventions from the government agencies responsible for oversight and regulation, another meeting was convened in 2007 to address the epidemic of Methadone related death, which has now become the #1 killer of prescription opioids and the #2 killer of legal and illegal scheduled drugs according to the CDC. In 2005, Methadone was implicated in over 4,600 deaths, up from the 1,456 in 2001. Thousands of lives may have been saved if the agencies involved had not waited until the death toll rose to epidemic proportions before seriously addressing the issue. How many more lives could still be saved if these same agencies made this epidemic issue a priority?

In 2006, the FDA issued a black box warning entitled “Methadone Use for Pain Control May Result in Death and Life-Threatening Changes in Breathing and Heart Beat”. In 2008, researchers from Oregon Health & Science University released a study in the American Journal of Medicine that stated “Methadone is a possible cause of sudden cardiac death even when it isn’t overdosed, but is taken at therapeutic levels primarily for relief of chronic pain or drug addiction withdrawal.” This is a medication that our government and physicians have assured patients for the past 40 years is safe when taken as prescribed. Many HARMD Inc. families know for a fact this is not true after burying their loved ones who took Methadone exactly as prescribed. This 40 year hoax must end and the truth must be revealed.

[sadinmichigan]

sorry that was funny!!! You are right..I have been readin all this and...i have a headache..do you??? i am never going to be able to sleep now for sure...lol

[flmagi]

ALERT  ALERT    I've just discovered a new sleep aid, guarranteed to put anyone to sleep.  Read all the ongoing BS about Suboxone and methadone.
Snoring right now.
Good night all.

[sadinmichigan]

lol no kidding..and this isn't even the only one...nighty night

[wait2long]

ZZZZZZ,ZZZZZZZ, ZZZZZZZ,ZZZZZ, zzz, zz,z,,,,,goodnight!

[johnnykelly]

I Enjoy reading your well thoughtout method of getting off your DOC. ITs a shame that people bring their biasis to the table.Leave your bias,and bring the evidence. The Medic makes the most intellectual and anadotal. In my opinion its not a competition of Methadone vesus suboxone. The last point i would like to make is not all people can go off of pain-meds. Thats why they call then pain pills,NOT EURPHORIA BOOSTERS,BRAIN BUBBLERS. YOUR a GOOD MAN U>S> MEDIC yours truly john