methadone addiction

[NewDaze]

How long does it take for addiction to begin after taking methadone?  A week, two,three,four weeks???

[iskotaw1]

usually they suggest 5 mg. every few weeks, too quick means that you'll be sick, but it's do-able - speaking from years and years of experience. I kicked 3 methadone habits and they all were like torture. A tip- is that a drug called rapinerole is really helpful with the restless leg. Wish I had known this then... Good luck my friend..

[Sueahside]

I don't know if you are still monitoring this site, but if you are, I would like to address your question.  No, I would not recommend methadone as a means of detoxing.  I have been using prescribed narcotic pain relievers for over 25 years and I will probably be using them for the rest of my life.  After a pain management doctor had me taking 900 mg of morphine a day (yes, I said 900 mg), he discharged me from the treatment program for altering the date on a prescription and I almost died from the withdrawal.  Narcotics withdrawal isn't supposed to be fatal, but at the level I was at death was a very real probability.  I got picked up by another doctor that I met in the hospital who switched me over to methadone, which I took for about two years.  He was an intern and when he completed his internship and moved on, I was transferred to another doctor who switched me to Oxycontin.  Even though I was still taking narcotics, it was no longer methadone and I experienced a HORRIBLE period of almost two months while my body tried  to cope with the absence of the methadone.  Most narcotic pain relievers are natural opiates, but methadone is synthetic and there is something in it's composition that will make you sick when you stop it, even if you replace it with another opiate.  I ached, I was sick to my stomach, had diarrhea, tremors, headaches and mental confusion for several weeks before it finally started to subside.  I will never go back on methadone again and I strongly urge you to avoid it if it isn't already too late.

[milesfromdenial]

Regarding your post, Dated May 14th, 2003:


"After about 7 years of heroin addiction and 1.5 years of meth maintenance-I did kick meth CT from 25mg (not the way to do it) and stayed clean for 7.5 years. I found that the withdrawls were prolonged to say the least. I felt like a walking raw nerve for the first 6 months of no drugs. The next 6 months I gradually felt some improvement but still never felt normal. After 1 year of sobriety, I still did not feel physically or emotionally 'healthy'-I still felt like a big baby. I was left with the remains of years of repressing emotional issues and bandaging physical ailments. There was a lot of work to do. I had mild diarrhea for 1-2 years after kicking all narcotics and my brain felt like diarrhea too! I felt oversensitive about everything because every feeling was  overwhelming. I can say that things improved VERY SLOWLY. By the third year off of meth I did feel strong and capable of dealing with life. The most important thing was coping day to day and getting through it without thinking too far ahead. Overanalysing and dwelling on how I felt was couterproductive and when I had free time-that's what I would do. Try to keep busy ,try to excersize(speeds up natural endorphins kicking in), try to live as normally as possible and know that with time-you will get back to 'normal'. My big failure was probably not dealing with issues that caused my to use in the first place- councilling, therapy, phsyco-analysis...however you have to do it-just address it! Get to the root of the problem and deal with it. Dig out that diseased part and get it out of your body and mind. If you don't, it will fester and take over your life again. All your hard work wil have become undone. Value what you have and don't forget what you did not have. I can say this because after 7.5 years of clean time, I came upon a very stressfull time in my life....I felt  overwhelmed and started fooling around with percocets. A year later. I was up to 20 percocets/day and had utterly lost control. I am now back on methadone (30mg) and do not know if I can go through withdrawls again (especially with 2 small children to care for). I  am seriously contemlating taking out a loan and doing a 'Rapid Opiate Detox'.....anyway, that's another story.
Stay clean and tough it out- It WILL get better (slowly....very slowly). You're right- It IS a new skin you have: take care of it.

Good luck.
Robyn"



Hello-  The post I'm replying to is only 9 years old - but perhaps by some mythical chance you're still using this login and you'll get this message.

I simply want to see how you're "journey" is going. Corny, yes? Do I have any other words for it, not so much. I know it never ends once it begins-the madness of addiction, so "journey" seems to like a good word / fit.

SO, before I go any further, lemme know if you're still around, I would love to you ask you more questions, if you would be open to it, I need all the help I can get-as do we all, right?

I love the way you're realistic, honest, and open, yet not suicidedly depressing about the subject of getting clean. (especially from Methadone) I SO hope that this message finds it's way to you....

[desperategf]

I'm in a relationship with someone who uses methadone. And honestly, I wish I would had known what I was getting myself into before I got with him. It hurts to see him doing it. He's tried to get off, but his withdrawals get so bad after 4 days, that he just goes right back to it.. I've tried talking to him about it, but it doesn't help anymore.. does anyone have any advice on what I should do? Or what I should say? He spends almost 1400 a month on the pills, and its hurting both of us so bad.. I don't want to end the relationship, but I want him to end the relationship with the drug.
Desperategf

[12345966]

I think methadone is the good choice for releiving chronic pain. I use it for sometime and it is not an addition. However, it takes time to start acting on the pain. However, the timeline for each person is different and it is difficult to predict.

[Thomas050]

You continue to completely miss my point. I do not need to be educated, I am not against methadone nor am I against chronic pain treatment.
I am speaking sloely about the person that abuses oipates then gets addicted, then tries to quit and can't, THEN in some cases like my girlfiends, go into a methadone program as a detox program, then after stabilizing on it and then try to wean off, can't because their body is so dependent on it. It has nothing to do with how it is being prescribed, the tapering is doctor regulated, is very gradual, is at the patients discretion, it includes mandatory counseling and can even be accompanied by other doctor administered drugs such as antidepressants and muscle relaxants to help. And the person still has a hard time going off because of the discomfort level of the withdrawal. They want to get off but can't. And they are doing it as clinic/doctor-supervised as possible. There are cases like that. I witnessed it first hand, and I have also read testimonies in forums like this.

In every reply you keep mentioning chronic pain. And I keep stressing am ***totally OK with chronic pain treatment*** (methadone, morphine, whatever works for the person).
I can't make it any clearer than that. But there are people who are not chronic pain patients who want to get off methadone and can't and it's because of the nature of the drug. That is what i am specifically talking about. There really is nothing to debate here, to debate that would be going outside the bounds of logic and reason.
This will be my last post on this as we are dragging this out a bit.

Regards,
Thomas050

[pammy0690]

You have to do what is best for you.  Regaurdless of what that may be.  What good is being in pain and not being able to live your very full and happy life?  It is quite the catch 22 damned if you do damned if you do not.  I am here for you bro with the rest of the "P's"!  Pammy

[bmac]

Thanks and I know I couldn't stop you if I wanted to Skip! You have always been set on that. I am a Christian so I agree. Can we say that 'word' here? One never knows! But thanks guys you all seem to know me well. I ain't foolin no one!
It just hurts and I am here to vent my frustrations once again.

[mrmichael67]

If you would like to become informed, read through the below links.  You will see what is considered accepted, medical practice these days.  There are many more, but I think these will suffice:

http://www.mskcc.org/mskcc/html/425.cfm
http://www.whocancerpain.wisc.edu/eng/11_3/tpda.html
http://www.geisinger.org/services/palliative/pain_mgt.shtml
Notice if you read, this one also is endorsed by the American Society of Addiction Medicine:  http://www3.us.elsevierhealth.com/WOW/pu080.html
http://transrecovery.com/oxycontin.htm
This one even addresses the fear doctors have of addiction:  http://health.discovery.com/centers/pain/medicine/med_addict.html
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2001-08-09-opioids.htm
http://www.eperc.mcw.edu/educate/flash/fastfact/418.htm

[mrmichael67]

You are getting high on your meds 24/7?  That would mean you aren't taking them as prescribed.  If you are, you would be way used to them by now.  Even though my active addiction is at bay for the time being, I am an addict.  I always will be.  I would have to say you are too, Bill.  But, you also need to be medicated for your quality of life.

[MrsRat]

The Thomas050 on this thread is new to MedHelp.  The Thomas you are thinking of, our Thomas of the Thomas Recipe, is the nick Thomas03 in here.

MrMichael still has his same nick with no numbers, so he is easy to know. LOL.

I saw you say you hadn't been in here in awhile, so I see how the nick and number confused you, it did me too when I started reading in here again.  Want I should handcuff Thomas03 down and magic maker his nick on his forehead so he won't change it again and confuse us all? (Just email the the $1 charge, heh.)

Read you are detoxing again, know you will be in my prayers.

[bmac]

I don't know all the medical terms you two use about this subject but I have known you two since my beginning here. I have read and listen to you two very closely since I came. I am a chronic pain patient and I am an addict. I have been to addictionoligist and several so called experts in drug dependence. I was just basically kicked out of a 1800 person study here in Alabama because of testing positive for pot. Anyway that doesn't really mean **** here but I have struggled with the addiction/dependence debate for over 10 years now. I am dependent on morphine, without it I am in severe pain. Without it I go thru withdrawals because my body is dependant on it. I am also an addict. I mean I will get high from it or I will find something else or take more to get the 'normal feeling' we all kid ourselves about. So in reading both your opinions and talking to several Doctors about this issue I say if you are a chronic pain patient yes you are dependant on the drug. If you are like the other opinion and are not in pain just a user you are addicted to the drug. I see a huge difference here between it. Some of you don't . It means the same thing to you. To me it is day and night. But none of this really matters anyway. I am still a drug addict. I use it to remain high 24/7. I also have severe pain and without it my quailty of life sux! So I have a dilemma. Which catagory do I fit in Thomas, MrM? In both of your posts you both make great points. But I am asking for both your opinions on me. You both know me equally well and have been with me since I started the Kadian. I am really interested in you guys opinions. If you would rather do this in private:
***@****, thanks guys and it is good to be back!

[skipper]

BMack:
know this....I'm going to care about you and pray for you and there is not anything you can do about it!

keep an angel on your shoulder...ok
kip

[mrmichael67]

I don't think what transpired was an argument.  It was just a debate that is, unfortunately, common.  Many are uninformed.  The patient who tried to quit and can't is a bad example as I know I never said that.  The person who can't quit is most likely an addict.  Not so hard to agree with that.  Well, if they can't quit because of cravings and the behaviors are in place.  If they can't quit only because they can't stand the sick feeling and they aren't being treated properly by their doc, then that is a damn loose interpretation of addiction.  Actually, it isn't.  All I know is I am glad the medical community agrees to their being a difference between the two.  Thanks to that, pain management has come a long way.  The topic of this debate is one of the main reasons why many still needlessly suffer.

[mrmichael67]

It may be a different wording for you, but even the AMA states that there is a distinct difference between physical dependence and addiction.  Many doctors are concerned about addiction when prescribing opioids.  That is a fact.  What is also a fact is all patients who take opioids chronically will become dependent.  Like I previously stated, it is the nature of the beast.  But, not all will become addicted.....actually less than 1%.  I could do this over and over, but here is another link:  http://www.paincare.org/pain_management/perspectives/patients/reluctance.html

[Thomas050]

>>This is particularily true with chronic pain patients. It is insulting to say that all those in methadone treatment are addicts peiod.<<

Robin, I had stressed I was not talking about chronic pain patients, so there was no insult.
I can concur with most everything else you said.

Some medications are stated by the medical industry as 'may be habit forming' and others are overtly known to be addictive (ie: pain meds, have you never heard of a doctor not refilling pain meds for someone because they don't want the person to become addicted. I have. They are vigilant with medication like that for that very reason). If the person continues using and then at some point they try to quit and can't, personally I would say they are addicted - the very thing the medical industry warns with prolonged use of it. If you want to call it dependency, that's fine. I guess the end result is the same for the person trying to get off it, just a different way to word it. And there are people out there who are not chronic pain patients and are on methadone and wish to get off it and are having a terribly difficult time doing so (there is very evidence of it right here on this board). Wonder drug for some (I agree to that), nightmare for others (I agree to that). And for my girlfriend it was the later, she did not want to be on it, but had to be because of how difficult it is to quit (which basically boils down to the level of withdrawal when you try to stop taking it, even when tapering). Again - addiction, dependency, whatever you want to call it, it sux for that person. If the distinction between those two words was what was causing the argument here, i apologize.

Regards,
Thomas050

[RobynBanks]

Suz-
'It is so clear those who have gained some peace in their lives and those who have not"....I don't think you or anyone else should be the judge of that.

Thomas-
There is... being physically addicted and there is... mental addiction. Most people have both but there ARE people who have a physical addiction to methadone and no mental addiction what so ever. This is particularily true with chronic pain patients. It is insulting to say that all those in methadone treatment are addicts peiod. That is a very closed statement. I understand that your girlfriend may have had a very bad experience  with methadone but she would be the only person that would be able to say so. Your impressions about methadone sound negative for the most part and it is smart to be weary of the drug but do not  make assumptions about a drug you know nothing about from fisrt hand experience. There are people that are addicted to methadone and there are others who use it much like a medication, It is NOT paralell to insulin, heart medication etc...I don't agree with that either. However, It CAN be used as a medication- to improve the quality if your life by using it to block withdrawls and block and attempt to get high. If the proper dose is administered and the patient is in the right frame of mind-the methadone is not abused- it is used.
Like anyother narcotic, it is GENERALLY a good thing to be off of any 'narcotic treatment' as soon as possible.  With methadone there is such a thing as too soon...I would not go in to a meth treatment program with the intent of weaning off of your pill habit slowly. This is not to say it cannot be done but Methadone is better used to stabalize an addict (allowing them to use this stabilization period to address stressors in their life and how to cope without the use of drugs, to get back to a healthy lifestyle of eating properly and excersizing etc...), after the stabilization period (which can be anywhere from a month to 2 years depending on the person), the person can then decide to taper themselves down slowly. It has been statistically proven that patients on methadone for 1-2 years do better than those doing a quick 30 day detox. I would think years and years of methadone maintenance would be a much harder kick than someone on meth for 1-2 years.
How long has your G/F been on meth?....maybe psychologically  she is not ready to taper?....anything over 15mg is do-able without great discomfort IF you are in the right frame of mind. I would not blame it all on the meth- it would probably be the same scenerio if it were pills. heroin ...whatever...I'm sorry she waked into the program with so little knowledge abot how it should and should not be used.
All the Best, Robyn.

[RobynBanks]

After about 7 years of heroin addiction and 1.5 years of meth maintenance-I did kick meth CT from 25mg (not the way to do it) and stayed clean for 7.5 years. I found that the withdrawls were prolonged to say the least. I felt like a walking raw nerve for the first 6 months of no drugs. The next 6 months I gradually felt some improvement but still never felt normal. After 1 year of sobriety, I still did not feel physically or emotionally 'healthy'-I still felt like a big baby. I was left with the remains of years of repressing emotional issues and bandaging physical ailments. There was a lot of work to do. I had mild diarrhea for 1-2 years after kicking all narcotics and my brain felt like diarrhea too! I felt oversensitive about everything because every feeling was  overwhelming. I can say that things improved VERY SLOWLY. By the third year off of meth I did feel strong and capable of dealing with life. The most important thing was coping day to day and getting through it without thinking too far ahead. Overanalysing and dwelling on how I felt was couterproductive and when I had free time-that's what I would do. Try to keep busy ,try to excersize(speeds up natural endorphins kicking in), try to live as normally as possible and know that with time-you will get back to 'normal'. My big failure was probably not dealing with issues that caused my to use in the first place- councilling, therapy, phsyco-analysis...however you have to do it-just address it! Get to the root of the problem and deal with it. Dig out that diseased part and get it out of your body and mind. If you don't, it will fester and take over your life again. All your hard work wil have become undone. Value what you have and don't forget what you did not have. I can say this because after 7.5 years of clean time, I came upon a very stressfull time in my life....I felt  overwhelmed and started fooling around with percocets. A year later. I was up to 20 percocets/day and had utterly lost control. I am now back on methadone (30mg) and do not know if I can go through withdrawls again (especially with 2 small children to care for). I  am seriously contemlating taking out a loan and doing a 'Rapid Opiate Detox'.....anyway, that's another story.
Stay clean and tough it out- It WILL get better (slowly....very slowly). You're right- It IS a new skin you have: take care of it.
Good luck.
Robyn

[mrmichael67]

I don't see how a healthy debate about a very relevant topic has anything to do with one not having peace in their life.  Can't say I see any correlation.

One thing I would like to add after a discussion with my mom this morning, who is a nurse (RN).  She was taking prednisone a few years back and when she stopped taking it, she had nasty withdrawals.  Is she a prednisone addict?

[RobynBanks]

teehee...that's funny.

[suzneedshelp]

Hey!  I am impressed with your knowledge about addiction.  Gained from long hard gut wrenching experience i am sure.  I am now on day 75 and really doin well today for the first time.  I am experiencing some real glimpses of experiencing serenity for the first time.  My pain is manageable and my cravings have been nuts...but... now i believe i am finally gaining the tools i need to beat em one day at a time.  Whatever works for anyone is worth seeking.  For me it is NA.  I am blessed to have an awesome sponsor and some great friends in Na and AA to help me to see the light from my temporary dark places.
Anyway...e-mail me if ya like:  anyone feel free to...
***@****
Peace to you search for life...
Suzie

[suzneedshelp]

It is so clear the people who have gained some peace in their life and those who have not.  Yes, i am not one there yet by any means.. but i am struggling to grow and learn and would never think i have all the answers about ANYTHING!  The program of recovery is by necessity, a time of breakthru growth in our lives or it ends in jail, institutions or death.
My dear Hippee is an example of one who is definitely attaining higher energy spiritual heights.  I use him as an example from which to learn.
May we all be more patient and helpful to each other.
Peace and love to ALL of you...
Suzie

[mrmichael67]

I forgot to mention that hypothetical person in the first sentence of my last post never took one extra pill and NEVER deviated from his treatment plan.  He took the pills when needed and when they weren't, he got rid of them.  Sorry, but you can't sell me on the fact that person is an addict.  You just can't because he's not an addict.  If you take them for long enough, you will become physically dependent on them.  That is just the nature of the beast.  They don't differentiate.  And mrs rat, it was your lack of funds that did that to you, not the methadone.  If you were able to afford treatment and come off of it right, that wouldn't have happened to you.  Being able to sustain treatment is a must for being on any opioid, not just methadone.

[mrmichael67]

So, if a person gets hurt, goes on pain meds, gets better, gets off the meds and then now, two years later, are med free, are they still an addict?  Hey, once an addict, always an addict, right?  And, I do believe that once one, always one.  Once the withdrawals disappear, you are still one.  EVERY chronic pain patient on chronic opioid therapy is an addict?  That is exactly what you are saying.