I am on methadone for chronic pain. My neurologist, dr. Virginia Pact, MD has sold her practice and she really knows very little about how to withdraw someone from methadone anyway. I use to be on 15 mg daily and I took myself down very slowly from that dose to about 7 1/2 daily about a year ago. I was afraid to go all the way down in case my pain became severe again. I got the withdrawal information from the local methadone clinic at that time. (My doctor thought I should just stop taking the dose...very bad idea.)
I am now attempting to get completely off methadone but have no idea how to titrate down without experiencing severe symptoms. Since this dose is so low, what I am doing is shaving (pills are very tiny) about what I think is 1mg from my daily dose. I started this on Thursday and as of this writing I have diarrhea, headache, back pain has increased with muscle pain and general malaise. My plan was to go down by 1mg daily until I was finished, but I am not certain this is a good idea. I am employed full time and do not want to miss work as a result of this so it is important to keep my symptoms to a minimum. What would you suggest? I hope to hear form you very soon. Thank you very much.
I'm glad you're getting some relief from the usual narco withdrawal routine, but I feel obligated to mention this:
I have included a link to a web site dedicated to L-Tyrosine that recommends L-Tyrosine be avoided if you're taking a serotonin re-uptake inhibitor (SSRI). I believe Zoloft is an SSRI. I will give you the link and leave it up to you what to do since it seems to be working so well for you anyway ...
You are doing better than me. I am on MMT. I started out at 80mgs. I have been dosing down until now I am at 20mgs. I am going to go to 10mgs Monday. According to my clinic you are doing it right. They recommend 1mg a week. That still may be to much for you. If you can, you may want to do 1mg every two weeks or even longer. I tried to do this 2 months ago and had to go back up to 40-30 mgs after I had got down to 5 mgs because of the withdrawl symptoms. This time around so far has been much better. I pray to God that it will continue so. The only thing I am doing different is I started taking the supplements that Thomas and a guy named pillpoppa recommend. To be honest and not disrespectful I thought they were nuts, but had nothing to lose. Guess what I was the nutty one. I have had a very minimmum of withdraw so far. This was the only thing I did different. I take a multi vitamin, zinc, magnesium, L-tyrosine, B-complex vitamin (you can just take the B-6, but B-complex has vitamin C in it.)
Thomas has also recommended some others, but I am having trouble finding some of them. I think they are copper, phosphorus and vitamin C. I also take an antidepressant Zoloft, but was taking that before also. I hope this helps. Look through the post to get the exact amounts. I don't remember them exactly. Please keep posting and let us know how you are doing.
To Thomas and Pillpappa. I want to thank you again. I truly believe this has made all the difference. THANK YOU SO MUCH.
I will second the information that the supplements make withdrawal a whole lot easier.
I started first with Thomas's recommendation, the L-Tyrosine and the B-6. I noticed less psychological craving for the meds.
When I added the large ammounts of zinc and magnesium, I noticed that I no longer got withdrawals 7 hours after my last dose of hydrocodone. I will say though, it takes a huge ammount of zinc for me. I am taking 120 mgs of zinc four times a day, the capsules I take have zinc, magnesium, calcium and manganese. I take a seperate zinc tab with them, since the capsule itself only has 22mgs zinc, I add a 100mg zinc tablet with it. I took this for a week before I noticed any difference.
According to Thomas, the L-Tyrosine helps your body start to be able to make its own dopamine again. And Pillpoppa said that the opiates create a zinc deficiency, and that supplementing with zinc and maganese and magnesium can let you go off with no withdrawals at all. I am not sure if this is true, as I am still taking my meds for pain, so don't know what would happen physically if I stopped completely, but I can attest to the fact that I can go a long time in between doses with no withdrawals, whereas before the zinc and L-Tyrosine, I would get withdrawals (sweating, chills, anxiety) after 6 to 7 hours.
Last week I went from 3pm to 9 am between doses, no sweating, no chills, no craving..but I did have a little bit of diarhea. You might want to try brand name Immodium for the diarhea.
Here's my re-print for the inth time of my cold turkey recipe for coping with narco withdrawal. You may benefit from just getting some brand name Immodium and stopping the runs. The runs leads to dehydration very quickly, which could be conributing to your general malaise. Check out the L-Tyrosine and B6, too. That stuff works on non-junkies as well! Good luck.
Here's my tried-and-true do-it-yourself "cold turkey" detox protocol.
Supplies you'll need first:
As many Valium, Xanax, Librium or Klonopin as you can get your hands on.
--- first day off the opiate, use enough Valium or whatever, to, if possible, sleep through most of the first couple days. Then start decreasing the dose until you're down to nothing in about 5 or 6 days. You'll have to do the math. The Valium or one of its sister drugs will help tremendously with the anxiety and, somewhat, with the body aches. Valium may make you eat like a pig and, when withdrawing from narcotics, one usually craves sweets, so I'd be ready to indulge myself, along with some good escapist movies. That always worked for me.
Around-the-clock access to either hot baths or a Jacuzzi.
--speaking of those goddamn mostly thigh cramps that seem to love to show up in the middle of the night, have that hot bath or Jacuzzi at the ready. Don't hesitate to spend the majority of the week in that hot water if that's what it takes to get you through it. You may be wrinkled, but you'll have your sanity. Don't underestimate what the hot baths can do to relieve the withdrawal discomfort. They really work. Heating pads between the thighs can help with those cramps, too, but not as much as the hot baths.
Brand-name-only Imodium (over the counter at the supermarket)
-- if you're a normal hydro addict, you'll be getting the runs by no later than the second or third day off the lorcet. In my experience, it's an especially unpleasant variety. At the first impulse, take two or three and respond to returning urges with two tabs. It's important that you do it immediately.
L-Tyrosine (qty 50 of the 500mg caps) - an amino acid available at the health food store.
chronic use of narcotics depletes the brain of several critical neurotransmitters responsible for well-being and mental performance and attitude.
Bottle of 100 mg B6 caps
My experience detoxing with this stuff says take 4000 (four thousand) mg. (8x500mg caps of L-Tyrosine) with two 100mg B6 caps every day for your "detox week" to provide your brain with the raw material it needs to replenish its stores of these neurotransmitters. Many feel the difference on the very first dose. ***Take it on an empty stomach, either first thing in the morning or at bedtime. You can continue this regimen after the first week if it continues to make you feel good. I continue to use it every other day with very few exceptions. After a few weeks, I cut down on the dosage, though, as it can cause the runs at high doses.
Multi-vitamins (most junkies don't eat too well, so this one's just for good sense).
Take a look at this link. According to this doc, you also need to add copper, phosphorus and Vitamin C to complete the dopamine, norepinephrine. You might have to do some hunting at the health food store to find the right vitamin or vitamins to supply all this stuff. I got a pretty good result from just the L-Tyrosine and B6, however.
I also understand from another contributor that zinc and magnesium help replenish and restore vital substances depleted by narcotics use.
Here's a link dedicated to L-Tyrosine ...
WARNING: This same site says to avoid L-Tyrosine if you're on an SSRI (serotonin reuptake inhibitor) such as Prozac, etc.
Thanks so much for caring and sharing. I talked to my docotr about taking the supplements and he said it was okay. So I am going to continue on because it has been a miracle for me. I am still shocked at how much a difference it made. Thanks again.
I'm taking oxycontin (100 mg/2x) for chronic pain. Have been doing for - well - in November, it will be three years. I hear what you're saying about methadone and in fact will print out your post and show it to my pain management doctor.
If I do indeed switch to methadone from the oxycontin dose noted above, how much methadone will I need? And what kind of side effects will I experience? I'm most sensitive to depression, and would rather stay on the oxy than get into a depressive state.
Something else stays on my mind and that is: my pain management guy is most cooperative. I've never had a problem of any kind with this guy. But I'm 56 years old and since there is much longevity in my family, I might be around until I'm well into my 80s or beyond. My father, for instance, is 82 and still mows the grass and other stuff. I'm concerned about what might happen if or when my pain guy moves to a different city, dies, etc. I don't think it's a given that I'm going to find another like him. And I don't know if this is the voice of reason, or the voice of paranoia. I'm tempted to go the Ibogaine route.
I say that because I don't have any way of accessing my current level of real pain. I know something is still there since when I get up in the morning and its time to dose, I can feel considerable pain in my back and sometimes during the day if I turn my body just right I get an impressive amount of pain shooting down my leg (wedge fracture L4 vertebra, open book fracture of pelvis with dislocation - the pelvis had to be reattached to my spine with a 4" titanium bolt).
Oxycontin most definitely gives me a life, but with side-effects that perfectly mimic exhaustion and all the rest.
Each time I begin to think like this, I remember Christopher Reeve and think how he fell six feet; I fell 25 feet and I can walk.
A guy on this site, Thomas, a great guy, has a good formula for getting off opiates, but I don't know if I'm ready for that battle viz. pain.
Would appreciate having your thoughts. You can post direct at ***@****.
CHINESE HERBS and ACCUPUNCTURE seem to be two of the best ways to treat withdrawal syndrome, and the long-term "post accute withdrawal syndrome" (or "abstinance syndrome"). Methadone has a long-term post accute withdrawal period - sometimes it NEVER goes away. I've heard of people getting off of methdone for a few years, and after being miserable the whole time they get back on methadone - why be miserable when a medication allows you to feel "normal" again? When I read about people putting themselves through torture to get off methadone (or other opioids), I wonder why they are doing it. Methadone in smaller split doses has no bad side effects, but when I have to dose once daily at a clinic I need considerably more methadone to "hold" me for 24hrs. until my next dose (back at the clinic EVERY DAY), and then I suffer from constipation, depression, no libido, etc. That is what "they" are doing to me if I have to go back to a methdone clinic again. If I do need methadone the rest of my life I'm not too concerned - unless I have to go to a methadone clinic again! The only thing that makes being on methadone so bad is the "stigma" against it which is based on ignorance, and the fact that methadone is a very difficult to obtain medication which is only available at HORRIBLE methadone clinics (and a few pain clinics). I respect "Dr. Steve's" advice, but sometimes other "addiction specialists" are completely ignorant about addiction treatment - especially when they are attached to methadone clinics! The doctors at the methadone clinics I went to were dangerously ignorant, and many people died because of it. I went to methadone clinics for about five years, and they all made my life hell - the "staff" there who forcibly detoxed me (or summarily dicharged me) were not trained medical professionals, yet they told the doctor what my dose would be and the doctor would sign-off on anything they told him. Unfortunately for me, they were sadistic control freaks, so I ended-up without my life-sustaining methadone again and again (I had to use heroin a few times). I could never even think about getting off methadone while dosing just once daily at a clinic, but after my doctor began prescribing the methadone pills for me a year ago I was able to titrate my dose down to just one 10mg. tablet twice a day - I went from 60mg. a day last year when I got summarily discharged from a methadone clinic (yet again), to just 20mg. daily now. Unfortunately, my doctor has been threatened for prescribing methadone since he isn't a pain specialist, so he switched us methadone taking patients to oxycontin (I made it clear to him that he was treating me for chronic PAIN and not ADDICTION, because I know that isn't legal). Now my only hope is a pain treatment clinic, and if they won't prescribe methadone for me there, then I'll have to detox off of oxycontin from my doctor (he is allowed to give me oxycontin or hydromorphone etc., but not methadone!). Going to a methadone clinic again would mean being a "prisoner-client" forced to take a huge dose of methadone to hold me 24hours. Another problem for me at a methadone clinic is that they are discharging people mearly for using marijuana, and I'm a medical marijuana patient. I'm also using marijuana to help me get off of methadone, but they won't allow me to continue using pot if I'm dosing at a clinic. I think kicking people off a methadone program for using pot is completely irrational, and when they are a medical marijuana patient it's even more irrational, but they are doing it anyway! Re: oxycontin - I find that taking them as prescribed keeps me fairly stable, but the side-effects seem much worse than methadone so far...I'm probably suffering a bit from methadone withdrawal since I suddenly switched medications (methadone to oxycontin), but fortunatly I still have a few methadone tablets left to ease the transfer - I'm alternating methadone with the oxycontin to try and stabilize myself (oxy is hard to sleep on, so I take methadone in the evening). I find that the oxycontin works OK if I take them as prescribed, but I much prefer methadone. Methadone is much cheaper, but it's also a far surperior chronic pain medication, in my opinion. Everybody is different, but I believe that for MOST people methadone is a better choice for treating long-term chronic pain and/or addiction. As far as "tablets vs liquid": I much prefer the methadone tablets, because they seem to absorb slower and last longer. It's quite easy to titrate down using pills - the "Methadose" brand tablets are larger than the other kind of methadone tablets I got (I haven't tried the "Dolophine" brand yet), so it's a little easier to break them into smaller doses, but even the smaller talbets can easily be broken down into even small doses. A 5mg. tablet can easily be broken in halves (2-1/2mg. pieces), and those can easily be broken in half (1-1/4mg. pieces), and those can be broken in half yet again if needed. I think it's much easier to titrate down when you have complete control over your own dosing schedule. Sometimes we all need a bit more methadone for various reasons (increased pain, stress, strenuous phsical activity, urine pH, etc.), and clinics won't let you adjust your dose very often - they insist you stay at what THEY consider a "stable" dose, even though they don't know how you feel. Women often need more methadone during their menstral cycle each month, and that's when the women on methadone at clinics sometimes use heroin since the clinic won't give them extra methadone to compensate for their increased need during their period. Only you know how you feel, so only you should have control over your dosing schedule - unless you're an addict who absolutely can't control your own intake, but that's rarely a problem with methadone. If anyone reading this is suffering from addiction to oxycontin (or other short-acting opioids), please do yourself a favor and switch to methadone ASAP!!!
Hello, i am on a meathadone maintence corse in Ireland and there is a new drug that has come out in Ireland over the last 1 year or so, it called Lefexodean or britlefex (spelling wrong) my brother and a few other people i know have been put on this when detoxing over here and they thought it was very very good nearly taking all the sickness away, the drug was not made for this i dont think, it was made for bringing down blood preasure, if you get on to this drug you might have to go into hospital unless you can get someone to check your blood preasure every day, anyway when my brother was put on it he went in to hospital for about 10 days first you have to be brought down to a low dose on meathadone say about 5mls then you start on the tablets, they start you on 1 aday and when bringing you up on the tablets they bring you off the meathadone after 3 or 4 day you are totaly of the meathdone and put you up to a maximum of 12 tablets a day and then you brought off the tablets over the next week, there are side affects but they are not bad you might feel tired and sleepy but not much more then that and you can not be addicted to this drug, i had another freind who dident go into hospital his mother is a nurse and she took his blood preasure, now i dont know if you can get them in the USA but if you can get them in Iraland i dont see why you couldent get them in America,
I hope this might be some help to you,
I am now detoxing off methadone and I am at 18mgs. I have been decreasing a couple of mgs a week from 40 mgs. The withdrawals are really starting to effect me now but I am under pressure to continue to go down 2 mgs a week since I am relocating in a few monthe to an area with no methadone clinics. I have been reading the posts and I am on my way out to but L-tyrosine, B6, and Multivitamins and zinc. I have been reading about how wonderful these supplements have been working and am looking forward to trying them. Does anyone know how much zinc you would need to take daily??? I tried to search the archive but they only give the original questions and Dr. Steves answers but no members responses. I recall reading several months ago from Pillpappa a posted schedule showing estimated amounts to take. If anyone has this info I would appreciate it. Thank you.
I've definately noticed a reduction in withdrawal symptoms with the L-Tyrosine, B-6 and Zinc supplements. Here is the post from Pillppa with his zinc recommendation. I don't agree with him that the zinc deficiency is the reason for the addiction symptoms, I'd like to see solid research to back up his claims....but I have to admit, the supplementation has helped me a lot. I couldn't find tablets with his recommended ammounts, so I take a good multi mineral, and add extra zinc tablets to it.
Good luck, and let us know how you are doing.
Here is his post:
Hi Moses - you will not come right until you replace all the zinc/mag you have leached out of your body over the past few years - this is what 'hanging out' really is - it's your body craving zinc/mag (zinc stops cravings/magnesium stops depression). If you don't do this it will take up to 2 years to return to normal as the only other source your body has for zinc/mag is food and then it is in such tiny amounts it takes years to build up again. If you get a blood test done you will find your levels of both are way down on what they should be.
Grading your habit on a scale of 1-10 (1 being occasional use and 10 being long term methadone at 100 plus mg's a day) you should take the following amount for a period of one month then slowly reduce to a daily amount of 2-3 per day.
Habit scale/size - Number of tablets per day for a month
You will notice that I recommend you never go below 2 per day. This is because zinc/mag depletion was your original problem so you should give yourself an ongoing supplement to make sure it does not happen again. I now take 2-3 per day to maintain my health. I have had no failures with this treatment (everyone OK after less than a month) and have treated addictions (including my own) as varied as methadone and cigarettes. The cigarrete smoker reduced from 2 packs per day to just 5 cigarettes per day in a week without any discomfort. If you suffer any kind of 'hang out' just increase the zinc/mag dosage and give it a liitle longer to take effect (a week or so).
The drugs themselves are not actually addictive but they do leach all the zinc/mag out of your body by increasing the metabolism of them creating a shortage that gets worse the longer you use unless you replace them while you are using in which case you don't hang out when you stop - you just come straight - this is true beleive me I have tried it as have a few other people I know and none of us sufferred any hang out when we stopped.
Thank you for your help, I went out and purchased all the necessary supplements yesterday. I plan on a 3mg drop at the end of this week, i will let you know how it works for me
, hopefully I will have less w/d symptoms.
Just wanted to give you an update on how I'm doing. My pain level went way up again, so there is no way I can taper off at this point.
I have to tell the truth about how my addiction is working though. At the same time that I'm trying to figure out what is the healthy way to approach taking the meds, my addict self is still sneaking around planning ways to get high. ::sigh
I found myself not eating for a while, waiting till my stomache was very empty before taking my schedule pain med dose, thinking that if it was not mixed with food it would affect me more.
It is embarrassing to reveal this, but I know that I have to tell you guys the real truth, as I've learned that telling the truth is the path toward recovery. Now that I've revealed this, I have more motivation to not do this anymore, and to remain on track with taking the meds for the pain, without abusing them.
Thanks for being here, and seeing all of who I am, rather than condeming me for having an addiction.
Thank you for your well wishes, and i hope i don't let myself and everyone down, but i don't think i will! :)
I will say a prayer for your daughter that she will come to the realization that she is an addict, and that she needs help!
Hopefully, one day, it will all make sense to her, and she will begin her fight to get off of drugs and alcohol for good!!!
i haven't been doing well with tapering at all, it's very embarrassing, but it's my truth! :(
My husband will be home next week, and he tells me they will be completely gone, and that i can do this... he will help!
i'm probably going to end up doing it cold turkey, but he will be back to help me get through it (with the kids and all). I plan to take a few days off from work, attached to the weekend, and beat this thing!!!
I need to do this, and i will do this even if i have to suffer to get through it... tapering just isn't happening for me. When he returns, i will have a few lorcets left to take if it gets real bad, but that's all i will allow myself, only enough to get through it if it's really really tough. I think my usage is still low enough to get through it like this... i been pretty good about not abusing it even further like i easily could have, i've had plenty to just go crazy with, and haven't, so i thank god for that...
my husband calls me crying on the phone, feeling my pain... i want to do this for my family, but most of all for me... there's no reason to continue this kind of life, it must stop now!!!
You will see me posting with a success story soon, i promise that, but it will be very hard getting through the mental pull of these pills. I plan to attend meetings, and get counseling if i need to, but the meetings will be a must, and it will help me tremendously!!!
Just having my husband back, fully, will help a lot. I will gain strength through his new sobriety, and i know that we can do this together, there is so much life yet to live, there's no time to waste, too much has been lost!!!
I'm as ready as i ever will be, and have a lot to fight for, i know i can do this!!!
Your prayers are helping, and i thank all of you with all my heart!!!
I'll keep you posted!!
You are all in my prayers too! :)
Jennyfla,I want you to know I have faith in you. Even more , I have faith in God . I want you to know I'm praying for you. I spoke with my daughter tonight and her speech was very slured. I know she relapsed. I know she can kick this thing if she tries. She was a terrible alcoholic 4 years ago. She was using pills too. I feared for her life. But you are trying to do this without making excuses. She is still in denial even though she's trying to get off the pills,she says she isn't an addict. Trust God to help you and all your friends here are praying for you. You will make it. I can hear in your words how important your family is and how badly you want this. You have many wise people here. Keep talking and never give up. Go to the support meetings and everyone is always going to be here for you. As long as your trying,your not failing. The only failure is to not try. God Bless you.
Yes, I have been taking the zinc supplements, and yes, I have definately found it to be helpful. I'm still on the meds, but I don't seem to get withdrawals 6 or 7 hours after the last dose, like I used to. Last week I went from 3pm to 9am with no meds, and woke up with no withdrawals.
If you scroll up to my repost of the zinc plan, you'll see what the recomended dose is. It is based on how strong a narcotic habit you have. I have been taking about 7 multimineral tabs a day, they are huge pills, not easy to swallow. I added a seperate zinc tablet, that I also take around 7 times a day.
Also, I did not notice any difference until I have been taking it for about a week.
I'm not sure I believe that zinc complety removes all withdrawals. I did get some diarhea the night I went all night with no meds. I also am not convinced that this is the cure all for addiction withdrawal. But, when combined with Thomas's suggested supplements of L-Tyrosine and B6, I think that it does indeed help the body handle what we've done to it with the drugs.
Good luck, and I"d be interested to hear whether this has been helpful to you.
I can feel your pain!! I know this is very hard to be going through. I would recomend that you do not do cold turkey. The reason is because you will feel like **** and want to take the pills not to get high but just to relieve the withdrawl. They have outpatient detox centers that will administer Buprenorphine, which is what I am going through now...check out my other post to find out what other meds I am taking. Buprenorphine makes withdrawl very comfortable and erases cravings, at least for me it did. I tried doing the withdrawl with darvocet but I still felt crappy. Intensive outpatient detox programs are usually inexpensive. It cost me $160 for the first visit and $40 for follow up. Thats not bad considering other places charge alot more. Please get proffesionally detoxed!!! You will be doing yourself a favor. Good luck, and hang in there!! :)
....... Sounds like you have a wonderful husband. You two must really love each other. I think your gonna beat this thing. I feel for you, I really do. I didn't really know what "that feeling" was like, untill I started on the Oxycontin. I too may be posting about tapering and withdrawals if this medicine is limited to terminal pain only. That could be a possibility in the future. Its not that unlikely to happen.
Keep us posted, and keep that attitude. You know the days are just around the bend..... its only a matter of time. I know you'll do it.
Dang LADY, when have you never been there for me? Did I just dream all that support that I THOUGHT I was getting from some woman named Cin/Dorothy ?????Geezeee, I could of sworn I had an "angel" by the name of Cin who has let me lean on her a whole lotta times.............this must be post opiate withdrawal "Naked Lunch" dreams I have about this wonderful, caring, compassionant, loving, caregiving ruby red slippered, click your heels 3 times, Florence Nightingalekinda lady that I SWEAR has e-mailed me at my darkest hours.............hmmmmmmmm, must have been my imagination...........hmmmmmmm......does anybody else have these kinda dreams??????????? hmmmmmmmmm.....
Cin, we love you girl.....and Jenny is right......you don't have to do nothing but be YOU! God Bless you and keep you darling.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light on us all,
Wiz that Wuz because he Duz :-)
thank you for your encouragement!
I can't do outpatient though tyler, i have 3 young children with no one to help my husband care for them, it just wouldn't work.
if things get real though, i'll take a few loracets if i need them, 1/2 at a time, and i'll be ok... but when i'm out of pills, i'm out!
I went through 3 pregnancies/childbirths, i know i can do this!!!
My husband keeps telling me it's easier than i'm imagining. If he could beat his habit in 5 incredible days, then i can beat my dwaft of a habit compared to his gigantic one!
Anyway, it will be a challenge and worth the fight. When i start to feel like ****, i will take it as a sign that each minute, i'm getting better and better getting more and more out of my system. My main worry is caring for the kids while i feel like i'm dieing. They are very demanding, and i'm afraid of not being able to handle their needs. My husband will help, but most of the time, it's ME they want! Sigh!
Wish me luck!
best of luck in your upcoming struggle with the "beast!" some
people have to do things the hard way and i fear that you are
one of them. You soon will be walking a path that is well worn
and stained by the trudging, pain, bewilderment, & tears of many
who have passed before you. please don't walk this path alone,
as you have the vast resouces of everyone on this forum to defer
to. I'm sure that many among us would gladly take your place,
to spare your suffering-- but you know we can not do this for you. you just gotta get up and walk it yourself, you wiil not be
alone. i can promise you whats ahead will be tough, but not the
way you think it will be.
"oh walk thru the walls if you must-
my sleepers will arise to find a new amerika.
one more thing. the novel "Naked Lunch," by William S Burroughs,
was based on the detailed notes he took during a withdrawal from
a prolonged drug addiction. although he used many narcotics, the
last oil burning habit before he wrote "Naked Lunch," was a drug
invented in Germany called Eukodal (spelling?). this drug was
put up in 20 mg. doses. This drugs generic name is OXYCODONE!!
see there is nothing really new in addiction- except the life that awaits you afterwards
Thank you so much for your post, you put your whole heart into it!!!! :)
I am more afraid right now than i have ever been in my entire life!
I am afraid for so many reasons; I am afraid that i won't be strong enough to beat this addiction, afraid of loosing my husband, my husband's disappointment if i'm unable to succeed, when i do get underway, afraid that i will loose control and not be able to think clearly. I am used to carrying the full load, keeping the entire family going (including my husband). I need to turn the helm over to him for a short while while i get myself better, and forget about the little messes the kids make, let the kids take care of themselves more like i know they can, trust my husband's judgment and let him make some decision for a change, and basically, just trust and let go for a while, and know that everything will be better soon.
Then learn to walk side by side with my husband instead of being controlling, and thinking that i have to handle every single thing. It's time for him to learn who he really is, and time for me to do the same. Then we can learn to love eachother without feeling the need to control one-another!
I know the withdrawals are the easier part, it's hard imagining my life without drugs and alcohol now. It feels like it will be so empty, but i know i must be wrong.
Thank you for your kind words! :)
I hope you are doing well, you sound real good! :)
Hi guys, I have not been online too much lately the weather has been so damn hot and humid and when that happens i am in the pool plus I needed time to get my head on again..i get so messed up and overwhelmed with moving and our financiak situation etc. Other than the LOVE I have for all of my friends here I feel that i have nothing to contribute when i get so overhwlemed....I am feeling better today a bit tired but better and I have missed you guys....so,,,,,,,,,,,here I am so CHAD MY DEAR CHAD BEHAVE I"M BAACKKKKK LOL and thanks guys for the e-mails.....I love you all cin
Hi Folks, This is the second time on and I think I posted my first few in the wrong place becouse I can't find them to see if there were any comments. Anyway I am trying to hely a friend out who is kicking oxycontin with mentadone. He has finished the meth and is doing ok because he is now doing 50mgs of vistaril which keeps him sleeping constantly. Is that a good thing to do. I was under the assumption that after he weaned off the meth everything would start to get better. He is worse because he is in this state of drowseyness. All he does is sleep. He didn't tell me the truth about the vistaril. I found a capsuel and he said it was for his allergies. I looked it up on the RX site and found out it was a 50mg vistaril. Now my question is should I confront him on it or is it something he has to do for the meth withdrawal? If so why didn't he just tell me the truth. Thanks. I hope everyone has a decent weekend.
My dear Jenny,,soon to be my not so distant neighbor you alays know what to say to me to help me feel better...can I be hinest for a minute or maybe a few?...i have always been the type of person that "thrives" on helping other people..at 15 I worked waiting n peole in a theater and i really enjoyed being ith people..just bullshittin with them...i enjoyed the public...then i went to a vocational school in highschool and took health classes to work as a nurse aide whcih of course led to nursing school..and the rest is history...I have spent many hours sitting with patients, neighbors, old folks, young folks etc, just talking and helping and giving advice if warranted.. i used to take baskets of stuff to the nursing homes when i was young...and christmas caroling when I was young,,,(can't do it now cuz I'd scare them to death LOL) I also learned at a very young age that some people don't want advice they just want someone to listen and wipe away their tears....and when I worked the oncology unit sometimes I would stay over at the hosptial if I knew someone would not make it through the night and sit with them so they would not die alone,,,if no family was there...this is why the guilt over not being with my mom..Believe me i am not patting myself on the back, all of this can be a serious downfall of mine a character defect....the proverbial "caretaker" but this is why I feel bad that I sometimes don't have the answers for people, or can't be there for chad and deb, or WW or Skipper and wiz and kerrie and you and Angellica and everyone else,,no I am not the great fixer upper but i have this need to help....am I crazy or what? yesterday in walmart a young man had a seizure and i felt the nurse in me just kick in and suddenly I missed nursing..but then I go to work and my toddlers yell Mrs. cindi and i am smothered with kisses and hugs..anyway,,,,there is no point to this post other than to tell you I love yo and everyone else and my love and caring for you is real..genuine...it's there..I am not a country bumpkin at all but I do love faith hilland the dixie chick,,,I am listening to Lee ann Womack that sond I hope you dance the words are awesome......God bless you all love cin
I'm pulling for you, too, Jenny! Sorry I haven't written or been on the forum much lately -- but I've kept you in my thoughts & prayers! You're strong & can do this! Remember -- "a happy ending." -- Milo
You are one of the most kind-hearted souls i've ever met, and i feel very fortunate to have met you!!!!
You are always here for us, and you never ever need to question that, like i said before, and as wiz has said.
I love that song by Faith Hill, and when i was visiting my family back in June, my mom told me to listen to the words of that song because they are so very true!!!
My husband was falling apart when i was away on vacation, and i was very sensitive because i had tapered down real low, so i was feeling for a change.
I felt the need to confide in them about my husband, not me though, they still don't know about me. My mom told me to listen to that song and it gave me strength!
I love music too, and look forward to enjoying it fully when i break free of my addiction. My husband too, he used to play guitar and he looks forward to playing again!!! :)
In life, you need to be guided by your heart, it never steers you wrong, and those toddlers are some lucky little kiddies to have you as their Mrs Cindi. I wish you worked at the daycare i will be bringing my little Kayla to next month! It's gonna break my heart to not have her with me at work anymore, but it's time - according to my boss :(
I know you must put many mommies and daddies at ease knowing that you are their with their little ones while they have to be at work.
Just keep being YOU, never ever change because we love you just the way you are!!!!
Well i have all my ammonition! I picked up some more L-Tyrosine, and i have B6, and Zinc and Mag (will take as directed and with food in my tummy).
I will start on Wednesday, i pick up my husband on Tuesday.
I'm taking thur and fri off for sure, and sat and sun aren't workdays so that gives me at least 4 full days.
I also have plenty of benzos to knock me out if i need it, and my husband will take care of the kiddies!
All i ask of him is to give me hugs!!!
He told me today to get my running shoes ready and to listen to him and take his advice, and he will help me pull through this. He's gonna make me move instead of laying around i just know it. I think this is going to be very helpful for him, because he has always felt somewhat responsible for my addiction (not true, but hard to get it out of his stubborn head). Helping me will be an excellent part of his recovery i believe. It will finalize his own plan in a way. We've been together for over 20-years now, and we are a part of eachother, and that's just the way it is. Call us both co-dependent, but it's hard not to be when two people have been together so long, and been through so much. I am hoping for much much happier days in the future, and hoping to strengthen our love even more, and mend the tears and scratches in our hearts, and have a healthy, happy rest of our lives together as one! But we need to learn many things, to give eachother space, and to not be controlling, and most of all trust!!!!
Thank you everyone for being here with me, i'll keep you posted!
Lv Jenny :)
CINDI, I'M YELLING SO YOU CAN HEAR ME !!!!!! You don't think you've been a help to me ? Who has stayed in contact with me with e-mails and prayers and on this forum? You helped me when I was going through so much with all these tests. You prayed as did so many others and God answered . You being a nurse knew what others didn't know. You knew my disease could of meant I was terminal and you talked me through all the waiting. You are always here with just the right words to say to give me hope about my daughter. Time after time I read testimonials of how you have given people strength to fight this demon called addiction. But, real heros, never know they are. Thank you my friend.
Wizard , you are like Cindi, full of kindness. You too have helped so many. You are an asset to this forum. I come to this forum for strength from friends that let me spill my heart and help me through the difficult times. My daughter truly tests my every fiber. But I keep praying for her to get clean. Thank you again for lifting me up .
Jenyfla, sounds like your ready. Remember, have faith in yourself and in God. He won't let you down.
God Bless, Kerrie
Thanks guys!!!! :)
I do have to tell you, i am scared out of my mind today!
As 'the day' approaches, i am getting more and more nervous!
The things i am most frightened of are; a part of me is sad to see the alcohol and drugs gone forever, although i know i couldn't continue this life forever either and expect all to be well in life, etc. etc. I am also frightened of my husband returning, i am afraid of a relaspe (i know i know, think positive)! I'm afraid that i will loose my mind getting through the withdrawals, afraid of not being able to cope!
I am a bundle of nerves right now, and with all i have to do everyday, taking care of the kids, it's just been so difficult getting these thoughts out of my mind... I had a load of anxiety earlier, i'm ok now.
My husband called earlier, complaining of his back and knee hurting, he just wants to come home so badly. He has a job interview set up for Friday. Hearing him complain about his aches and pains brought back some bad memories. I've really enjoyed this time while he's been gone only because it's been such a relief to be able to breath for a change. When he returns, i know he will be a different person, and things will be much better, but i still have fears... it was so awfully awfully BAD before, and during this time apart from all the caos that used to be my daily life, i just can't go back to that life again. My husband will have to be responsible for himself from now on, because i am out of steam completely. I don't even know if i have the strength to get through what i need to do for myself... i just can't do this anymore!!!
I do know this, when i pull myself out of my own mess, i won't go back to the way we used to live. If my husband chooses to start using again, i'm out of here before i get pulled down with him. I'm sorry to be thinking so negative, but it's hard not too. I've been through this before, and it was hell! It all happened quickly after his rehab last time, and then skyrocketed when our house caught fire... and i went down too. Then pregnancy, which saved me in my body for a while, but not my mind, it was always there... i couldn't wait for labor so i could request SOME DRUGS!!!! I was advised to get counseling while pregnant, but i chose not to. I watched my husband get worse and worse... and you know what was first on his mind while i was in labor... he had to drive my kids to a friend's house while i was in labor, and he made sure to cop and get as high as a kite before returning to the hospital. He was so high while i was in labor, he was sitting in the chair nodding off! I didn't care too much, i was kind of busy at the time, plus i was in stadol la la land! I had to trust him with the atm card while in the hospital for only tops, 24-hours, and he went and had himself a good old time with that card let me say that!!! I was too much in the bliss of motherhood to get very mad, and allowed him to get away with it.
Sorry, i got off track somehow.
Anyway, my point is, once i am better, i can't get pulled down into hell again, i won't. If i make it through this nightmare, then i vowed never to return to it... If i do, i know my world will end, because it will come back with a vengence. I feel i am on the verge of making another step downward, and i can't even trust my willpower anymore. I used to be able to 'handle it', so i thought, but it quickly took over, and i have been going downhill rapidly, and that has scared the **** out of me.
If i go back once i get through this, it's going to be real bad, REAL BAD!!! I can feel it!
Anyway, my point is, i hope that he is serious about staying clean because i will leave with the kids and start a brand new life somewhere else.
On the bright side, i do feel that he is better than he was last time around... he has suffered a lot during these past 2 1/2 years, and i hope that he remembers the suffering, and he has the strength to beat it this time.
I'm just very scared tonight, and i hate pointing my finger at my husband when i sit here still not even straight myself, but these fears are so strong.
I feel i will have the willpower once i get past the nightmare of withdrawals because i have the kids to focus on, he seems to get angry at life too easily, and the kids get on his nerves instead of trying to do things with them, fun stuff.
I feel like deleting this entire post because i must sound like a negative idiot! But these are my fears, and i will try to keep them to myself, and let my husband have the opportunity to prove that my fears are all just silly nonsense!!
I'm such a hyrocite!!!
Thanks for listening!
Ok Jenny,,,I'm right up there with Milo,,,,you are entriely normal and have every right to be afraid, terrified, excited and everything else you are feeling.....always remember this YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR FEELINGS NO MATTER WHAT THEY ARE,,THEY ARE YOURS AND YOURS ALONE. but lke Milo, I would be worried if you were as calm as a cucumber (why do they say that anyway? LOL)or is it as cool as a cucumber anyway,,I'd be worried..keep the faith,,,Worry is interest paid on trouble before it is due...that doesn't hlep much cuz if you're anything like me you re going to worry but it sounded good LOL......(pat pat) even through the toghest times in my life I try to heep humor somewhere in there.....i can always find something a little funny in the worst times even in my mom's death my sister and i made a little joke...Off subject for a minute,,,but when mommy was mad she would tap her big toe....and my sister and I took her toe in the casket and started tapping it one last time...and sandy made some wisecrack about her being pissed if she knew we were tapping her toe....anyway,,,someday day you and yours will look back and it will seem like a whole different life...I went to a wedding last night the most beautiful wedding i have ever been to....the groom who is my neighbor (so is the bride) is in a band they do all their own music and he wrote a song and sang it for her..it was so cool and the words reminded us what marriage and the committment is all about...we have to keep this in mind..keep the faith,,,one day on minute and ine second at a time.....Milo.....you my friend....know how I care for you....you are a wonderful asset to this forum and a good friend..so kind, caring and genuinely concerned for people......your words are only too kind and my dear Kerrie,,,what can I say you are just another of God's angel's you have been one of my guiding lights through all of my turmoil despite your own...may God bless you all have a great sunday Love you cin
Jenny -- Take it from someone who's had every strange, bizarre, off-the-wall fear, phobia, paranoia, worry, etc. possible...your fears right now are 100% *Normal*. I'm not discounting them in any way, because I know how terrible anxiety feels, & I'm sure right now you feel completely overwhelmed by it almost to the breaking point. If you didn't feel this way, I'd be worried...you're at a crucial point in your life, and it's a tense time. Just remember how far you & your husband have come to get to this point, and be aware of the strength you've shown in just the past few weeks. I couldn't have done what you have -- hang in there!
Cindi -- My first "angel" when I came in panic looking for help. A special "bless your heart" for all the kind & wise words.
Kerri -- It's been a while, but I've kept you in my thoughts & prayers as well. Remember I'm still here for you all, even if I'm a little quiet now & then! -- Milo
Thank you thank you, i need that so badly tonight!!!
I'm stilled scared to death.
I waw my hubby tonight, and he felt so good to hug, and he smelled like my honey too!!! No more yucky withdrawal smell. I told him i can't wait to sleep next to him in bed again, and i apologized in advance for him having to sleep next to my sweaty yucky withdrawaling self (sorry i'm so gross).
He asked how many mgs i was doing, and i lied, i said 40, it's gone way up since he's been gone. It's like the closer i get, the more i do. He should understand, he was a maniac there at the end. I have a $2,200 deficite in the checking account right now. we have overdraft protection, so it's a line-of-credit, so i won't bounce checks.
This is so incredibly scarey. A friend just told me not to go cold turkey because anything over 70mg i could slip into a coma. I don't think that's true, i thought opiates were safe to do cold turkey. I'm in great health, and young enough to withstand this, i'm sure i will be ok, just sick as hell, but ok. I can make it, i know i can do this, i must do this!!!!!
My husband's going to walk me to death, so i better be ready to get up and move around, no lying in the bed waiting it out!!!
I start wed and i have my kids' orientation to meet their teachers on friday. My hub will stay home with the baby, but i have to go, i want to go. I will use the 'have a flu' excuse if i look like death!
I'm going to be ok, then i will be wonderful!
How long do the withdrawals last? I'm so scared!
My daughter looked at me strangly tonight. I was high out of my head, the way i've been over the past week or so, and my eyes are dialated and look strange. She looked at my eyes hard, and i was taken aback. I look forward to looking at her face-to-face knowing that her mommy is clean and sober, i'm ashamed to be like this.
I love them with all my heart, and i know i'm a good mom to them, can't get much better except to be straight and healthy!
They love me with all they've got too, they show it with hugs and kisses and sweet things that they do everyday, i am so very lucky to have them!! So it's time to give them back what they give to me, complete love from a totally clear head and accepting heart! I can't wait to give them a 100% mommy!
listen to skipper,,,,when you don't take the tramadol you feel so bad because you are in withdrawals.,,this may cause you to become very ill....maybe even have seizures..listen my serbian is not very good but why would you be banished? ok if terrible things happen when you are banished??? try taking less of the medicine every day.....until you are down to not taking anything....is it illegal to become addicted to drugs even if you didn't know they are addicting............? go to your hospital...doc or clinic and tell them the truth I didn't know Serbia was that extreme....but under these circunstances this is the best skip and I can do cin
....listen i`m not that god with english so i want bug u much,
i`ve strted takin` tramadol year a go?
.....750mg(15 pills)every two days iz my "must take"....
....without them i feel week,i`m shakin` all tha time,when i think of stopin` i feel like cr.p!
My town iz too small,so if i ask for help,i`ll be banished out!!!
.....can anyone,anyone tell me the "less pain" way to get off,
cause i`m not in control of my life any more,and i can`t stop
I understand that methadon iz heroin get off,so i dont think that name of a medicine change much?
Hi friends. I'm glad to hear from you Milo. You like so many others have been with me through the storm and I do so appreciate it. How are you feeling these days? My pain today has been rough but I made it to both church services today and even did a solo tonight called "Through The Fire". It's a song I truly believe.
My daughter has been off the drugs for about a month now. She hit me up for a pain pill today and I stood strong and told her no. I begged her to come to the forum and talk to everyone. She said she could take one for pain without going into a relapse. She got mad because I wouldn't give in. She called later to say she was sorry. I still think she had some the other day but she would never admit it to me. But I told her to keep praying and keep trying. I have to stay strong.
Cindi , you sound good tonight. I didn't mention you make me laugh girlfriend. You have a good sense of humor. I wanted to ask you about your back. How is is feeling these days? Disk disease is painful . I don't want anymore back surgery but I fear more nerve damage. How is your pain now. Is your medication helping. I know I need to be on something stronger but I just hate to do it. But I'm having more bad days than good and I don't think I can hold out much longer.
Jennyfla, remember , when we are weak He is strong. Your in my prayers dear. Your going to make it !!!!!!
God Bless, Kerrie
Well, I've been a silent lurker for so long on this list but thought I would come forward this afternoon for some reason. I didn't realize I had such a big problem until my meds were switched around. I have been on misc. Narcotics for 5 years. I have such a tolerance now doctors will not exceed a certain dosage and will not titrate upward anymore. So my last doc decided the best thing was to throw me on Methadone from Oxycontin. I was on 80MG oxy but he started me on 30mg Methadone, then upped it to 60, then 90. It does make the withdrawls go away but I find that Methadone does absolutely NOTHING for pain. So, I decide, OK, thats it, if I'm taking medication that does nothing for the pain, I'm getting off. I have never met a medication that I couldn't taper off without some pain and suffering but methadone is a new evil. I dropped from 90mg to 20mg in 2 1/2 weeks. I let that dose ride for a week and then tried to drop to 10mg, but after the first day of this I was a wreck. It seems that the lowest I can go is 15mg (1 full tab morning and 1/2 tab night) without going into seriously deep withdrawls. With the advice of the gurus on the list, I have a shopping list for tonight to get the L-Tyrosine, and other stuff to see if maybe I can get over the hump. I will keep you updated. Things that work for most usually have a reversed effect on me, we shall see.
I must say, you guys are a great source of information and support. I have read some of the bashing comments in the past but they in no way would ever post that if they had every gone through what we have gone through. Some of your posts have been the only thing thats kept me strong over the years when I thought I had nothing left or was going crazy! Peace to all of you.
welcome to this forum, there is always room for one more addict, so come in out of the cold! try posting closer to the top of the forum as it's real easy to be unseen down in the basement here!
i've been using drugs on and off since i was 14. i'm 50 as of last sring. i had 17 years of being clean from drugs until spring of 1997 when an old neck injury from 1970 put me in severe pain. 2 surgerys later i take 40 mg of oxy-c 3 times a day. i'm not 100% pain free, but i can do anything i really want to.
getting off methadone is a real *****, no 2 ways about it. the last 5 mg. are the most difficult. did you investigate getting a new pain doc? 80 mg of oxy-c twice a day is about mid-point in the range of intractable pain control.
please keep posting. you will find many individuals that are or
have been where your at. this forum has been a real life saver for me since my last surgery in may of this year. i too was a "spook" lurking for a real long time. the difference between lurking and actively posting is tremendious! so.. i certainly
hope to be hearing from you!
This is too tough. Or am I? Off of methadone since 8-02-07 and suffering. I thought coming down from 60 to 20 to 10 to 5 to 2.5 mg would be manageable. Still losing weight rapidly, immodium doesn't seem to be doing anything, although maybe I just can't imagine it any worse. Heroin withdrawal has nothing on this, in my experience. The thing is, I had almost 4 years clean and serene(or something?) and went back to it for a couple of years. This time i'm in a different life of my own creation, something more sustainable than the old city and heartbreak. So I'm motivated, but I just need to know the suffering will wane. Every time I think it might have gotten ever so slightly better, I eat a cracker and run to the bathroom to dry heave and the rest. The only solace I have is my bathtub. Even that is the enemy when I can't decide if I'm freezing or about to have a heat stroke. No insurance, I left my doctor in the old town and now can't get my script if I wanted to, unless I go back and start this whole mess again? I've always been weaker than most, kept in detox longer than the average and come out looking like death. I'm super fair, and even my eyebrows are light blond. I think the anemia and loss of vitamin health take such a toll, but the thought of putting a vitamin in my stomach, just the thought, makes me want to puke. Enough poor me, just sitting home alone in a new town getting through this. Looked up a meeting, but I just can't. Anything to take that won't affect my weak stomach? Bless you all for trying, this isn't easy.
you have posted to a very old thread, these posts are from 2001 hun, try to repost your question. that is a very rapid taper...from what i have read and heard you are only supposed to taper like 1mg a month...and also methadone withdrawals are THE WORST i think, methadone stays in your system for sooo long that the withdrawals can last for over a month, i even read somewhere of someone still suffering on their 56th day, but it also depends on your dose and 60 mg is a little high, i was only on 20 mg and still suffered for about 5 days then started suboxone which does work, do some research on suboxone (for short term use) it does help with withdrawals and cravings and you have had no methadone since aug., 2 then you could start suboxone right now...or you can tough it out, you are almost there.... have you tried to double your dose of immodium? also how about tums, i lived on them, you are almost there though, you have been clean now for 22 days, that is quite an accomplishment, you should be proud...i bet you will start to feel better within 7 days or so. your doing so good, therapy would help, but i know what its like having WD's and no ambition or care, just hang in there it will pass and you will see the other side soon and you will be proud and happy that you stuck with it, 22 days clean for you, THATS GREAT!!!! post to a new thread though youwill get more help with a new post. take care and get some vitamins also , if you are anemic, maybe taking iron will help you with not only anemia but also your bowels (iron always constipates me) LOL! keep posting!
I have a post here "Methadone detox: What works, what doesn't". There's some stuff that may be helpful to you. Fladdict has a post called "amino acids" that can help you out to, There's a few other treatments I can mention that are good, but I can't put them here, this board doesn't allow tthem to be posted here.If you're interested, let me know.
I am trying to gather info about coming off of methadone (110mg), I am going to come off the methadone 10mgs a week or I thinking about just stopping treatment altogether. But I was wondering what you meant by, "I took these for a week before I noticed any difference" ?
You asked about withdrawals and depression from switching to methadone from oxy's and I think that you will not experience any. See when you switch from methadone to oxy's you experience withdrawals b/c of the way methadone interacts with your receptors. Methadone is a long acting drug, and one of the reasons it's used for opiate addictions is b/c it blocks the effects of other opiates on your brain, meaning you don't get high. When I switched from oxy's and morphine to methadone I didn't have any withdrawals in the least and it never bothered me. Methadone acts like an opiate in the brain so you won't get depressed, the methadone will still provide the dopamine and serotonin to your brain.
I have currently been on Methadone, at my doctor's suggestion as a replacement for Norco, for well over 4 years. My dosage is 30 mgs every 6 hours, or 120 mgs a day. I have a condition that is inoperable, that leaves me in a twisted spasm of acute chronic pain without medical intervention, but after seeing the long term potential for worse things from the meds, I want to get off and try to deal with the pain using every strength I can draw from my being naturally. Reading the effects of withdrawal from methadone scares me to death, but I am going to proceed. Right now, I have been able to ween down to 20 mgs every 6 hours, and so far, 2 months now, I have not had any side effects yet. Do you think that some people have different ways that their physiology works in withdrawal, and maybe some of us are lucky enough not to have as bad symptoms as some of the folks in this forum have? If anyone out there has had more positive results in getting completely off, please share them with us all, as I need to have hope and get off of this and the other,( soma and norco for breakthrough), drugs all the way.
Please share any successes, as will I and what it was that helped with all of us.
Trying in Texas
I have a 27 year old daughter on medicade, who is detoxing at home from 85mg of methadone cold turkey. She got tied up with a clinic for about a year and a half. We, my wife and I, tried to help her come down from 150mgs but we only had ten weeks of withdrawal to give her. Now it's cold turkey. This is the 3rd day, and now she is really hurting. Is there any help for her. The Centers here in Marion Cnty Florida said there are no beds available after they told us to bring her there and we waited 2hrs.
The next step is to take her to the hospital again, I guess.
Does anyone know of anything else and what else to expect from my daughter?
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