methadone without a program?

[susanlea]

Is methadone an effective treatment for someone who was addicted to narcotics for about 3 years?  Is it normal to be perscribed 30 to 40 pills every 2 weeks to take home? I was under the impression that in order for it to work, that an addict should be in a 12 step program and have counseling? I didn't think it was legal for a family Dr. to prescribe methadone any time they wanted to, that it was to be supervised. How can it be given to an addict without any supervision? I had a friend who takes as much a day as he wants, isn't he headed for the same kind of addiction, since he couldn't control how many oxy's and perc's he would take. And what does it do to ones personality? Does it make it difficult to produce endorphines, and how does it effect the neurotransmitters?  Thank You

[Brighty]

You're going to get lots of replies on this one. I think what you need to do in figuring this out is to understand that addicts themselves tend to be divided on this issue. That to me is a very key component in deciding who is right, and what the truth is. Common sense will tell us that no matter what the medicine that rarely is it within any medical parameters that a person is taking as much as they want. Methadone is available on the street, in detox units, in long term methadone maintenence programs and by prescription from doctors. My husband's Aunt Dottie is 80.. she is prescribed it for neuropathy in her feet and legs.. basically pain. I have heard addicts say that methadone maintenance ( which is a full 12 step& counseling deal) gave them their life back... I have heard as many, maybe more, say that it prolonged the addiction and when they spent a year or 2 weaning that they were not normal when they got off .. they had depression and a really bad time... much of that occuring not immediately but later. I think you will hear lots of pharmaceutical evidence that it's not more addictive.. again... addiction is a combination of physical and psycological. Another item regarding methadone is that it is not uncommon for opiate ( notably heroin ) addicts to seek methadone in order to "chip"... to get leveled off so to speak so they can use the heroin and begin to get high from it rather than to maintain on it. Basically, whatever your friend is doing does not appear to be in the interest of true recovery... seems more of a misguided attempt to stop using. My take anyway. I am as interested as you are in seeing all the replies on this one. This for me is purely informational :-)) I am not an expert but listen attentively and am most interested in this topic...let's see what we learn. Love, Maria Seraphina

[jennyfla]

Sorry to intrude on this thread, but it brought to mind a question i have about methodone.
My husband is a methodone user and an oxy user.  He's been taking 40 mg of meth each day in the morning, then using oxy's through out the day.  He wants to get off the meths so he doesn't have two habits to keep up with, then eventually get off the oxy's.  He's trying to target the meths first because they are more difficult to get off of, by using the oxy's.  Believe me, i won't believe that he wants off the oxy's until i see it, but the meth, i understand.  Why have two addictions.  He was using the meth originally to get by when he was out of oxys, but it backfired on him, making it a double addiction.
Ok, my question, he stopped taking the meths, and doesn't feel any ill effects from not taking them.  Is this possible.  In the past, i always noticed even if he was using the oxy's, he still needed the methods.  He was on 50 mg at the time.  He got as low as 30 mg before stopped cold turkey with the meths.  
Just curious, i know he's got a long road ahead of him, just trying to make alittle sense out of this.
Thank you!
Jenny

[Brighty]

It seems believable that he would not feel any ill effects of going off methadone if he's still on the oxy's... they are covering the base so to speak. Even when all meds are properly and professionally tapered there tends to be some depression when all opiates are discontinued. This seems to be why relapse is a problem concern and recovery tools are necessary. Those persons not willing to find some source of recovery seem to have the worst time. Thomas is  a great source of information on many things here and has wonderful things to say about using tyrosine to help feel better. Watch all the other replies :-) Love, Maria Seraphina

[Jimenez]

Methadone can be prescibed by any family doctor at any time for pain. Methadone is first and foremost a narcotic pain reliever. It just happens to work as a drug replacement for chronic narcotic abusers as well. That's it. Nothing more or less. It's dispensed in Methadone clinics in small quantities to discourage the addict from taking his whole months supply or so in one day...because many of them will. Methadone as a "take home" pain reliever given to those who can be "trusted" with their medication. It is a good long term (safe), long acting medication. I have been on it for about 2 months...am now up to 30 mgs a day and really can't see how anyone would enjoy the "high" of methadone at all. While I'm adjusting to my dosage, I am noticing that it is a very sedating, "nodding off" kind of drug without the "body" kind of euphoria that lesser narcotics give. I find no euphoria from it at all and don't really care for the side effects of this medication. I couldn't imagine people taking in excess of 80-120 mgs of methadone a day. Before I was placed on methadone, I was taking a lot of Lortab 10's. The side effect euphoria of the Lortab is more enticing than that of methadone. I have no ambition to start taking more and more of the methadone. It just isn't that kind of drug to me. This leads me to believe that methadone, as a pain reliever, is probably a better choice for chronic pain patients and should be used right off the bat for many instead of Vicodin etc. It kills pain and the "fun" of the drug goes away quickly. People really do have the wrong idea about methadone on both sides of the fence. But it is a viable pain medication. One that works without, at least in my case, wanting more and more of it.

[Sharp]

Hello Everyone.  I have been reading the posts on this board for the past 2 1/2 years and they have really helped me quit my hydrocodone addiction at least 10 or so times in the past.  The problem as you can tell is I kept going back to the pills after a few weeks.  I finally found myself taking 30+ Norco a day!  Reality set in and I knew I could not do this myself so after going to my general physician, he reccommended to me a methadone clinic.  I went to the clinic and started on a 21 day detox program which I and most people fail at because the dose decreases too quickly.  Next I started the methadone maintenance program,  I stayed on that for 3 months at 40 mgs and then tapered myself down extremely slowly over several months which resulted in almost no withdrawal symptoms.  It has been several months now and I still do not have the desire to ever take narcotic pain meds again. I want to address some false statements I have been reading, first you do not have to register as a drug addict,  it is confidential physician patient info, nobody will find out unless you release your records.  Secondly , in my opinion it is not more addicting, i had no problem lowering my doses, in fact it is much easier since you can go down in doses 1 mg at a time if you want which results in NO WITHDRAWAL SYMTOMS.  I believe in this program and as you read it has given me my life back,  if you are a long term abuser and really deep down want to stop I fully recommend this program.  Thanks to all for listening and good luck to all, you are all in my prayers.....

[susanlea]

You said the magic sentence " you believe in this program, it has given you back you life, that  if an addict wants to stop"  It all boils down to 2 key words, BELIEVE and WANTS"  This 2 little words are enough to change the world.....Thank you....God Bless you.......Love Susan Lea

[jennyfla]

This is a call for HELP!
I'm sick of feeling sick, and i'm tired of this demon ruling me and robbing me of my inner-most self!
I want myself back, and it's time to STOP.
I have three beautiful children who need me and deserve to have a mom who is there, and who will be there for them for a long long time.
Children are a gift from god, and we are here to guide and take care of them as well as we can, and that doesn't include having a drug addict mom!
I want to stop, and believe that I CAN DO THIS!  I'm no position to be able to go to a rehab, or even attend meetings daily.  I work full-time, and with three young children to take care of, and no family closeby, it's up to me all of the time.
My husband is a drug user too, and he's gonna need a lot more help because he isn't as strong as I am.  I also want to be drugfree so that i can help support him, and be here for him so that he can do all he needs to do to get off of these pills.  He can't do it if i'm a mess too!
What I'm asking from anyone who is willing to help me is to be here for me with all the support that you are able to lend me.  I know this is gonna be tough, and i need a support connection from people who understand this disease, and who have beaten it.  
I know that this is going to be the biggest fight of my life, but it something that has to be done.  
It's time to bring myself home, and bring out the person that i once was.  I know i can be happy without these pills, it's just a matter of getting through the bumpy part.
I am a very determined person with a lot of self-control, so i know this isn't out of my capability to beat this monster.
Oxy's are the monster, and I don't need them to be happy.  If i can get through the sick part (and thank you for all the helpful hints on making it easier), then with god's help, and a lot of support from friends and people who have done this before, i know i can do it.
Can i count on anyone?
This group of people on this board are the most knowledgeable group that i have ever come across, and i would be so thankful if i knew i could come to this board during any upcoming weak moments.  It would mean so much to me knowing that i could get support from people who really understand what this disease is all about, and how it's not so easy to just stop taking them.  There's a lot involved and you really have to come to HATE pills and what they are doing to your life before you can beat them.
Thank you from the bottom of my little addictive heart!!!!!!
Jenny

[jennyfla]

I'd like to say something; you people amaze me!!!!!!
I've been sitting here reading and reading, along with my husband, and i just want to thank you all for sharing your experiences, you are all such an inspiration, i think that i can really do this!!!!
Another wonderful thing, you've gotten through to my husband, and he's even talking about quitting too (could it possibly be true, could such a wonderful, amazing thing really truly happen).  
Screw the lottery, screw everything and anything we have ever wished would happen, just the thought of being drug-free would be such a wonderful prize, who could ever ask for anything else in the world!
We have been together for 20-years and i've lost him, i've lost myself.  
It brings tears to my eyes, just the thought of having our life back together.
I quit everything in one day, back in '99 when i found out i was pregnant with our third child.  Cigarettes, alcohol, and loracets, boom, everything gone in one moment.  I went into a big depression, but concentrated on the new life inside me, growing, and also, on putting our house back together again; we had a fire and we were living in a one-bedroom motel room with our two children for 4-months.  I was excited about moving back home, and getting our lives back together.  But i had a hard time with nothing to dull my pain, and it was hard to watch my husband continue to use.  I went back to my old ways after the baby was born, but i enjoyed being alive during my pregnancy, i knew it would be trouble once i was no longer pregnant!  I was stupid!!!
I did quit briefly this past February.  I was sick with the flu and couldn't drink alcohol, and tested myself by cutting way way back on pain meds.  I went into this sadness that i have never felt in my life, i felt EVERYTHING 100x stronger, i couldn't stop crying about everything.  But i was alive, and hadn't felt that way in a long time.  I know now that my flu symptoms were partially actually withdrawal feelings.  When the flu was almost over, i looked in the mirror and i couldn't believe how great i looked, what a difference.  I started to feel better, hence started up my old ways.  Stupid again!!!!!
But i know that sad feeling, and the constant crying really helped a lot, and when i felt like i couldn't stand it anymore, i grabbed my husband or one of my children, and gave them a big hug and clung onto all the energy i could get out of them.
Children hugs are the best, i can't tell you how much good they can do!  Plus, when you have 3, they eat it up because there's never enough of me to go around, so they love the personal attention!
Anyway, my point is, i'm familiar with the sadness i'm going to feel, but just one glance in the mirror, and the feeling of cleaness (another feeling i had), is a great inspiration to keep going with the plan!
I hope this all makes sense.  I need to get some sleep, i think i'm getting batty!
All i can say is KEEP ON TALKING because you guys are hitting some major nerves (the ones that are still alive!)
I have a drs appointment this thursday to find out what all this pain in my upper left and right sides are all about.  Another big reason to quit because i think my body is tired of all this abuse.  I want to tell him the truth so that i can help him help me.  He's a dr i've never seen before (not my usual pill-pushing drs).  I'm alittle scared because i don't want him to freak out on me because of my addiction.  I hope i can trust that he won't go off and do something stupid, i only want to find the cause of my pains.  It's probably nothing more than more digestion, caused by the pills, and poor eating habits (i'm underweight thanks to no appetite), but i know that if it's nothing more than that now, i'm lucky, and that it soon will be something serious if i don't straighten up my act NOW!!!!!
Thank you all!!!  You guys are the best!!!
Lv Jenny

[Wizard]

You go GIRL! funny how this forum works!
Power & Magick @U
you and your family are in my prayers tonight too!
Power & Magick 2U,
luv,
Wizard

[jennyfla]

Thank you, and i definately believe in the power of prayer!!!
Maybe if enough prayers are heard way up above, god will take pity on my sorry self and help give me the strength i will need to get through this difficult time!
Best of luck to you too!!!!!
Lv Jenny

[Frankinscense]

Rid yourself of the oxycontin and let the methadone do the work that is intended to do! You must get serious about a recovery program. Keeping oxy in your presence is the most idiotic thing that a person could do! Get serious. Find a twelve step meeting(NA meeting) that suits you and attend everday if you have to. Enroll in a good methadone program and utilise what they have to offer. Comply with the programs requirements and let the methadone work for you! You must get oxycontin out of your life! LOSE YOU CONNECTION to this killer, life ruining drug!            Best Wishes,Be Spiritual>>
Dan..

[jennyfla]

I'm so afraid of the feelings i am going to feel once i stop the oxys.  I am afraid of the things i've been supressing inside.  There's a reason i numb myself, and very very good reason, and i'm afraid of what i might see once i am no longer numb!
I'm looking forward to the rewards as a drug-free person, but scared to death of the feelings.
I am in a job where i am very loney a lot of the time.  I've sat her for 4.5 years because it pays too much to leave.  The hours are great, and there's no commute.  I can afford to take care of my 3 children with this pay.  If I leave, i would take a 1/2 pay cut for sure.  This area is pitiful for job opportunities (Florida is for retirees).
I am afraid of what my feelings will be for my husband (who says he will stop too -- but i'll believe that when i see it).  If i stop, and he continues, there will be a big wedge between us.  But maybe it will give him the encouragement he needs to beat this thing himself.  If he sees that i can do it, maybe he will get strong too.
I just don't know, and am so scared to 'feel' again!
Sad and scared!
Lv Jenny

[Deja]

One thing that keeps striking me in the heart about your posts is your concern for your husband and your relationship.  I have to take a hard stand here and say (from someone who has been there) - Right now - as you decide to recover you need to think about YOU.  Do not focus on anyone else, it will only complicate things.  Your husband needs to make the choice on his own. You may become his inspiration to recover - you may not.  BUT - you need to do this for YOU and your children.  

I could talk forever about relationship dynamics during recovery, co-dependancy etc....  and I will be here for you if you need to talk about that.  I think though, right now, as you decide to stop using, I can't stress enough, be there for yourself.  If you need to cry, cry!  Cry hard.  I know I did - I still am.  I too have 3 kids.  I quit my pills last week.  I still have pain but I am getting back my brain! (gads that was corny huh? lol!)  

If I can do it anyone can.  Lonliness!!  That was the first emotion to surface during the first few days in withdrawal.  I allowed myself to feel it. I cried so hard! I think I am almost through with the physical part and the emotional part is starting to burst.

Hug those kids.  I know I am hugging mine and holding on tight.  Those pills were not only robbing me of a life they robbed my kids.  I'm not going to feel guilty-  I am going to move on. (ok- I am saying that in the tone of voice that sounds like I am trying to convince myself!)

Make a point to do one thing just for YOU today.  Doesn't matter what it is - sit and look out the window and watch the shadows, have a cup of tea, take a hot bath... just do one thing for you because today you are going to start loving yourself again.

I know that sounds so corny, sheesh.  I just want you to know that although I am new to posting here - I've been reading this board for years and I'm doing it! And- I am here for you.

Blessings, Prayers and Love,
Deja

[Wizard]

Nothing corny there at all Deja. I think I said a long post ago that NOTHING is more important then the children. I think you put it the perfect words. Jenny, right now you NEED to be selfish and take care of YOU so YOU can be there for the children. That means RE-reading Deja's post and Listen to her EXPERIENCE. You are in my prayers.
Power & Magick 2U all,
Peace & Light on you and your families,
Wizard

[Jimenez]

Just a little testifying here:

Before I got on methadone 2 months ago, I was taking around 25-30 Norco a day...or 20 Lortab 10's a day. When I first got put on Methadone, I was started at 15 mg's a day. about a week into this I ran out of Lortab and had to exist on the Methadone alone until my next refill (the doctor wanted me taking both, lowering the lortab as we increased the methadone) Well, even at the rate of Lortab I was taking, I experienced NO withdrawal symptoms at 15-20 mgs. of Methadone a day. That's impressive. I was taking up to 300 mgs of Hydrocodone a day and 20 mgs of methadone helped with my pain issues and also kept me from withdrawing from the Lortab. I'm now on 30 mgs of methadone a day and haven't been on the Lortab for over a week again. No withdrawals. The side effects from the Methadone at 30 mgs are also so severe (somewhat TOO HIGH of a dose at 30 mgs.) that I not only do NOT want to go any higher than 30, but got a pill cutter today to go down to 25 mgs or so. 30 has me nodding off at work. NOT cool. The reason I'm posting this? PLEASE do NOT go to a methadone clinic or get on methadone for pain relief at dosages higher than what I'm taking at first. Not only are there a HIGH number of first dose OVERDOSES with methadone, but there is NO need for 70 mgs etc for those of us with moderate pill dependencies/use. If you're doing a lot of HEROIN every day, I can see being on 100+ miligrams of methadone. But to hear people getting on 80 mgs. of methadone after having a 15-20 Vicodin habit a day is absurd. (I know all of us are different and react to drugs differently, so this of course is NOT across the board). It seems to me, now, that methadone clinics may be starting people at a high dose somewhat on purpose. I know this is total conspiracy theory, but even in the literature that comes with the methadone - it says for maintanence therapy that 40 mgs is usually more than adequate and that 15-20 mgs during acute withdrawal from other narcotics will alleviate withdrawal symptoms. So why would someone be on 70 mgs of methadone with a 20 Vicodin a day habit? I don't know how these people function at first on 70 mgs of liquid methadone from a clinic let alone stand up. 10 mgs of methadone (on the literature) is equivalent orally to 10 mgs of Morphine in pain control. So do the math - 70 mgs of methadone is like taking 70 mgs of Morphine. That's usually more than the person was taking in equivalent of Hydrocodone. Now, I'm just posting this for people to realize that you can start low, taper off from there and have a shorter go of it. Tapering down from 90 mgs will take a long time and if it's not necessary to begin with - why do it? It seems that the clinics want you to stick around awhile. Now, 350 mgs of Oxycontin etc. definitely warrants higher doses - given. But even at that, start low and go up. (Those of you who swear by methadone and use it at high doses, this is not a put down to you. I'm just sharing my experiences.)

Thanks for the ear.

[jennyfla]

Thank you to you both!
I understand and agree with what you are saying.  Yes, I do need to do this for ME, so i can take care of my beautiful children.  I waited a long time for them, and i have been given one of the most wonderful gifts in the word, my children, and i need to give them all that i am possible of, and i can't achieve that being numb!
Co-dependency is a BIG issue of mine, and has been for a long long time.  I've read the books, i've gone to counseling, but it ingrained from childhood and what i saw while growing up, not so easy to forget.  
Deja, good luck, and you're doing a fantastic job!  Keep being a good role model for me, i know you can do it, i'm very very proud of you, as i know you are of yourself!
Wizard, thank you for being here for me.  Your kind words will help give me the strength needed to take on this challenge.
Stay tuned for the next scene!  :)
Lv Jenny

[cindi]

I have been sitting here reading each one of you posts and I have to agree with Deja,,you never fail to mention your children and your husband...this is not a bad thing...I have 2 beautiful kids and the best husband any woman could ask for...I went into treatment 10 years ago for a demerol addiction,,hell it was an everything addiction..this was before I had kids or a husband...in 93 I got ,married, 6 months later I gave birth to my joy....my heart...and I was positive I would stay clean for her....only lousy, negligent mom's use when they have kids,,  I was clean and that's how I was staying..I would not become one of those mom's,,I wold stay clean for my new husband as well...I was happy, had everything I wanted in life my life was so perfect...so I returned to work when my baby was a few months old,,my husband took care of her...when my baby was only 18 months old I was arrested for theft of narcotics...again..taken away in front of her and my husband...I cic not stay clean...why?  many reasons...I was happy so I quit going to meetings,  I was busy taking care of my new family, too busy to work on my program, to call my sponsor  just to happy and too busy...I was told early on in recovery that kids and husbands do not keep us clean but I did not believe it...now I do...I love my kids and my husband more than my own life..as you do..but this is a selfish program and before you get clean you have to do it for the right reasons...do it for yourself....and stay clean one day at a time...that is like loving someone when you don't love yourself,,,it really does not work like that....this disease is a monster or as wiz calls it a dragon....and it lives inside of us...as along as we are fighting it with our recovery programs it lies in waiting,  the moment we slip, become complacent,,,it gets it's rush, and it surfaces...calling us...It took me a very very long time to come to grips with the fact that I am a drug addict...I was the queen of denial...I was a nurse, then a wife and then a mom all in that order so if I had a great career, wonderful family how can I be an addict...very easily...it does not discriminate...it does not care if you have kids or not, it does not care if you are happy or not, and believe it or not it can and does creep up on us during some of our happiest times because that is when we become complacent.just like I did...Jen, (my duaghter's name is very similar to that)you have to be selfish in order to be ok,  you have to put yourself first,,,when I first heard that statement I was dumbfounded but as time went on I realized how true that was....If you do not put yourself first then your kids may be the ones to suffer...you may not be around them long enough to finish raising them.or break their hearts by dying..and someday if and when you do decide to talk to them about your disease they truly will understand why you had to do this for yourself..Good luck to both you and your husband...My husband is in recovery, he has been clean for about 10 years....it is very difficult when you both are in recovery,,,you want to work his program for him, pick his sponsor etc...you can try alanon or naranon as well as attending your own 12 step meetings...You say you do not have time to go to meetings....I said the exact same thing....think of it this way,  do you have time to run around to Docs to get script?   then go and get them filled etc?  then you can use the time spent at doc offices and pharmacies attending meetings instead,,,where there is a will, hon, there is a way...I don't want to sound rude or anything,,but you sound so much like I did...and at times still do....I am repeating to you what I heard from some very good people with alot of clean time..unfortunately I blew them off....please listen to what everyone is telling you and keep it with you ,,,someday, it will come in very handy.....best wishes and I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers........love to all    cindi

[susanlea]

I posted the question about methadone without a program. Please let me know from a Medical viewpoint what methadone does to the neurotransmitters, and the endorphines. What is too much, and can a person OD on this? My former boyfriend had been addicted to Oxy's and Perc's for 2 1/2 years up  to 360mg oxy's and 10 or so Perc's 650 a day.  Went into a CATS program, detox, 5days, meetings 2xs a week, finished in 6 weeks. No more meetings or sponser, relapsed  after another year he went on methadone 10 weeks ago.  Can this alter the personality like opiates. Thank you     Susan Lea


ps. can a family physician continue to prescribe the methadone long term for migrains? This is the same DR. who would give him the narcotics every 10 days.

[Thomas]

sure, a doctor can prescribe anything he wants for pain. His greatest adversary are "hardcore" pharmacists who might report him for excessive prescribing. Or, the DEA, considering so many of the rx's are triplicates. But the issue wouldn't be methadone versus percodan, etc., but, rather, the quantities and frequency of prescribing. And, yes, long-term use of any opiate reduces your brain's endorphin production capacity, since the brain mistakes the opiates as endorphins and reduces its own production to restore balance (I'm not a doctor, I just read this somewhere). I understand that chronic opiate use depletes other neurotransmitters as well.

But, may I ask, is this guy hurting anyone with his drug use -- I mean, besides himself? You can't make someone want to stop. You can only force them to by incarcerating them -- and we know how beneficial a stay in one of our prisons usually is. You may have to just let him do what he will do. From the sound of it, he's heading for a crises which might resolve things anyway.

[susanlea]

Thank you for your honest reply.  Yes, unfortunately his drug use finally ended our relationship of almost 6 years.  I really don't know how long he had been abusing, I know he's been using some drug or another for over 15 years. He's now 38.  His addiction escalated over the last 3 years. He got oxy's and the rest is history.  At one point, while he was in detox last year, I went through the house to find whatever I could.  I found, no kidding....over 50 empty bottles of oxy's and perc's, quanities of 30 or more.  All perscribed over a period of less than 6 MONTHS.  That's not including the 60 oxy's he got from a friend a  month, and all the pain meds he could steal from me. He became very distant, abusive, angry, withdrawn and very reclusive, he slept in another room for 9 months, wouldn't eat with us, nothing. He almost lost his job.....he left and came back at Christmas, he was gone about 2 weeks.  He got out of control again in Jan. missed all of Feb at work. Said he had the flu for a month. He never left the house except to go to the Dr. for more pills. He rarely took a shower, he was mean to my little kids again and he became abusive again.  I pleaded with him to get help. He said NO, that he was on Methadone now and it was under control.  He got so angry with me, he left mid March. He's been gone almost 3 months, the nurse at the Drs. office said he comes in every 10 days for his script and other pills. She said she and the other  nurses have told the Dr. he had been in detox and was an addict.  I even told the Dr.(he's my Dr. too)that he was an addict and needed help.  The Drs. reply to me was(he only comes in every 2 weeks, he couldn't get addicted to Methadone, and that I must be wrong about the other narcotics, because he only gives him 30 oxy's every 2 weeks for migraines and they are not addicting if you take them for headachs) Am I missing something here, am I crazy and living in a fantasy world, or is this Dr. just not educated about addiction.  So yes besides himself, he has hurt my children and me, and the life we had planned.  He doesn't seem to be around his other 4 children, left their mother for a cocaine addiction 10 years ago after setting his youngest daughter on fire while high. Yes he has hurt alot of people who loved him and tried to help him....Sorry..I don't mean to sound so bitter..it's been bad today,,,,my kids miss him.....I miss the old him..I just can't believe in such a short time our lives went to ruins.  Thanks Thomas.....love Susan Lea

[jennyfla]

Thank you Cindi, you're a very sweet person.
You laid it out just perfect, no offense taken and no rudeness in your kind words of help!
Yes, you are right, i need to do this for ME, and i need to be selfish for once in my life and think about ME first and foremost!
I deserve to be clean, i am too good of a person to have this ugliness hanging over my head.
I do know i can truly be happy without the drugs, i like life enough and i can and will be fine without them.
My husband needs to deal with his own problem, i will be there to support him, but it's really out of my hands.  Plus, i have my own battle to beat right now, and i have to concentrate on ME!  There's NO WAY he would ever be able to raise our kids alone, making it even more important that i stick around to take care of our children.
But, as you said, and others on this board, I need to do this for ME first, then worry about everyone else.  Actually, if i concentrate on ME and getting myself better, the rest will follow, and everyone will benefit!
It's so hard because i know i will be faced with the 'things' in my life that i've been numbing myself in order to avoid.  I'm terrified of the pain.  
I think some of my problems are, first, i moved away from all of my family back in 1983 to be with my husband.  He wanted to move to Florida, and i was only 20 at the time.  I never should have moved so far, and it's been hanging over my head for all these years.  My mom never made it easy making sure that i never forgot the pain i caused her since i left.  I miss them terribly.  We moved about 4 1/2 years ago from the original spot in Florida.  I was so devastated when we moved, although i was looking forward to improving our lives.  This area of Florida has much more opportunity for my husband in his line of work.  I left a very good job (although i had to commute to make decent money, and did that for 6 years -- 90 miles a day), still, the job was stable, an excellent company, and i felt secure.  Here, my job pays very well, and is local, but it isn't anywhere near as stable.  It will be gone one day, probably within the next year or two; this scares the **** out of me.  I have made friends over the past 4.5 years, so that has improved, but i was so so lost at first.  I work alone the majority of the time, so the loniness was unbearable at times, but the money was too good and very hard to come by in this area; therefore, i'm trapped.  My husband started bringing home loracets, and these little blue pills made my sadness and loneliness go away!  It started to get out of hand, then the heroin entered the picture.  Our lives were falling apart very quickly.  It pushed us into bankruptcy, again, another thing i wanted to numb myself over, and it got worse and worse.  Then my husband began getting way way out of hand, and crazy.  I quit using, and stepped in to try to get him to stop too!  Ha, i found out what it's like to try to get someone to stop using when they don't want to.  I put him in an excellent 28-day program, and he did wonderfully while there.  Unfortuately, when we came out, he didn't follow through with the program and soon relasped.  While he was in treatment, i saw the man i once knew, and it hurt so much to see him go away again.  I was doing great, still hadn't used, and was determined that he could beat this thing too.  We had a housefire, caused by his irresponsibleness, and he was injured and was given pain medication for his injuried back.  It was too much for me to bear and set me into a relaspe.  Then i became pregnant with our 3rd child, and quit instantly, everything.  He continued to use.  He got into methadone to try to beat it on his own, but it didn't work out as planned because he just wasn't and still isn't ready.
I began using again after the baby was born, and it's now to the point where I need them just to feel normal.  I got by for so long, just using them to numb, and not feeling any withdrawals effects (slight, but not bad at all) if i didn't take anything.  But, unfortuately, as we all know, it catches up to you sooner or later, and that's where i am now.  I am being ruled by this drug and now need it to function.  I'm having a hard time dealing with a chemical running my life.  I know i am a great mother to my children, and i can only imagine the kind of mother i can be if i where clean.  But i have to be clean, and happy.  
I need to learn to live without feeling the need to numb myself with chemicals.  I need to learn how to deal with the unpleasant things in life, and take joy from the things that bring us happiness.
I need some bigtime counseling on my co-dependency problem.  I believe that this is the 'root' of my addiction.  I think that is very clear to many of you exactly how strong my co-dependency problem really is.  
I have to 'break the cycle' for my children's sake.  Here I go again, but it's true, or else they will end up growing up to be little drug addicts or co-dependents themselves, just like what i learned as a child.  My father, the co-dependent, and my mother, the addict (alcohol).
My husband had two addictive parents.
So talk about my children being genetically handicapped!  
I grew up in this kind of world, i live in it now, i don't want to live it out all throughout my life and watch my children go through it!
That will absoluately break my heart into tiny little pieces, and it's something that I pray will never happen.
I walk around in fear of so many things in my life.  The numbing of myself makes it bearable to deal with things!
But i know i am a strong person, and it will amaze me just how well i will be able to deal with lifes trouble as a straight person.  I'm sick, and have only a fraction of my true strength!
I will amaze myself.
Can you tell i'm really trying to convince myself in this post!
Thank you for putting up with me.  It really helps to talk it through in these posts knowing that there is a person on the other side who understands where i'm coming from.
People that have never been through it are completely clueless about this disease.  Even if they are truly devoted and think that they understand what you are going through, they will never know the real pain of an addict.  It's impossible unless you've been there, that's why i love this board!
Thank you again Cindi, and love and strength to you always!
Lv Jenny

[Blueyed_male]

I have a lot of experience with methadone, both as a MMT client, and as as a staff member working in a methadone clinic. I know some of the guys on this board are not going to like my position on the matter.

Methadone should only be used as a last resort when all other treatment attempts have failed. The simple fact is that its very addictive. To get on methadone you have to prove two different failed detox attempts over a period of 2 years or longer. (If your private pay some clinics will role you over from a 21 day detox, a practice i feel is shameful)

While the withdrawls from methadone are not as severe as herion they last longer. With herion, even the largest habits can be kicked in 7 days, sometimes less. (You wont feel good but you can hold down food and sleep at least a couple of hours) With methadone you will be sick for up to 21 days, sometimes even longer. (depends on dose, how long on program, and how fast you detox)

The half-life of one dose of methadone is like 12 hours. Most opiates its only 4 hours. You know why? Because the liver has a hard time metabolizing methadone. Withdrawls dont really kick in until day 3 of detox because your saturated with the buildup of methadone metabolite. Does this give you any clues as to how toxic it is?

Its the duration of withdrawl that wipes you out. You just get tired of fighting. After a week your beat up pretty bad, after two it gets hard to stand. After the 3rd week you'll swear you'll never do it again. I only made it to 3 weeks once because i was in jail. (Every other time i started shooting herion again with a vengence)

I have been on methadone maintance 4 different times. On 21 day detox more than 20. I also worked at two different methdone clinics. I have kicked pills, herion, and booze so many times its not funny. I started using herion when i was 15 years old. Im 47 now.

I have been drug free since 1988, set free by the power of God.

In my opinion, both in life and observing my caseload of 200 + methadone maintence clients over a 4 year period, is that not many methadone clients make it. After the "honeymoon period" they start poly drug abuse such as herion, pills and mainly booze. Frankly, i got tired of the funerals as i watched one client after another die from liver failure. (Mainly result of booze and methadone)

The only thing i have seen work in my life and in thousands of others is a faith in God. He wants you to be free and is waiting for you right now with open arms. He will help you through. He will never leave you or forsake you.

But i think you know that. You need to step out in faith and trust Him.

I have seen a lot of talk of endorphins and opiate receptors and such. All of those things return to normal after a little while. trust me, i know first hand. It just takes a little time.

A dear friend of mine was on methadone, 120 mgs, for over 20 years at a VA clinic. Today he is drug free and has normal pain threshold just like a regular person. Everything comes back to normal.

Im going to ask everyone i know to pray for you. I pray that God touches you right where you are, sitting in front of the computer. His healing Spirit flowing right through you, healing you, giving you hope, and strength. Restoring your dignity and showing you the beautiful destiny He has for you.

I made it and i'm a big cry baby. You can make it to.

Your partner in prayer,

John

[susanlea]

Thank you for your insight and honestly.  I am not an addict but my ex is.  He went from occassionaly use of narcotics to a full blown addiction to oxy's ana perc's in a matter of 2 years. It was horrible watching someone you love distroy themselves with these drugs, and destroying us.  He detoxed and relapsed. Now he is on Methadone, as much as he wants. He's in no program, counseling just gets the pills from his Dr. I have doubts he'll ever get clean, no 12 step program, no weaning. I have given up all hope. He's been on methadone, and whatever else now for about 10 weeks.  He's not here anymore, I have forgotten what he was like before all this started. He sure gave up on us and everything so easily.  If he's taking methadone, let's say he has an accident at work(he's with a major telecommunications co) and gets drug tested, will the methadone show up? In his co. you are not allowed to climb or operate co. equipment while on perscription narcotics. Probably just a matter of time before something happen. I have heard through al-anon and others that they never get into rehab without hitting rock bottom. What does he have to lose to get straight. He's lost us, his kids, and maybe his job soon. He's living with his parents because he can't seem to get his life together(they don't know he's usine) Sorry for going on and on..........love Susan Lea

[jennyfla]

Thank you for your prayers, i for one, need all i can get.
My little 8-year old daughter just made her 1st communion last month, and i felt a very strong pull towards god while in his home.  I felt a comfort while in church, and during all the times i was near the church for the pre-communion process.
I watched a video as part of my daughters communion preparation, and it really touched my soul.  It talked about how jesus is here for us, and he knows that this is a difficult world, but we need to be strong, and he is there to help us be strong during our difficult times.  I cried during the video (thank goodness the lights were off do no one noticed), but it just hit a nerve and i couldn't help it.  I spent 16 years of my life going to church every single sunday.  The words all brought me back to a happier time in my life also.
On another note, my husband has been using methadone along with oxys.  He just stopped taking the methadone, and this time, seems fine without them.  Of course the oxy's help, but are the oxy's easier to get off of than the methadone.
I'm going to keep talking about getting myself to the point of stopping.  I know talk is cheap, but at least i'm talking.  I am hoping he will follow in my footsteps!
Thank you again for your encouragement and prayers!
Lv Jenny

[Wizard]

Jennyfla, I couldn't help but notice in your post about your daughters 1st communion. I have to assume that you might be Catholic as am I. If you have been following any of my posts for the last 2 weeks, you probably know what I've been through. I'm going to tell you what really WORKED for me. The 1st few days I PRAYED big time! Went back to Mass, communion and have been saying Rosaries daily. First week I cried through all the prayers like a little boy.  Then the fog lifted. I never gave up hope and I did not despair! I truly believed God wouldn't give me more then I could handle. All this and the recipe that Thomas gave me. got me to see the LIGHT and the end of the tunnel! I now am really beaming with positive light and energy. Even though I broke through the first layers darkness, I have continued praying not only for me and my family, but also for you and the rest of my friends on the forum. Faith for me was the key. Faith gave ME the determination.  Maybe it will work for you also. I BELIEVE it can. You have a lot of wonderful little gaurdian angels here! Use us :-) ( All you angels know who you are!) Keep striving for the light!
Power & Magick 2U
May Gods light shine upon you and your children,
Luv,
Wizard

[jennyfla]

Thank you, you're so sweet in sharing your story with me.
Yes, Catholic I am, and I truly believe that my faith in God is a gigantic key for me in helping me beat this addiction!  It may not be the answer for everyone, but i truly believe that through prayers and my faith in god, i have a chance.
Everyone has their own way, and the answer is the find strength in something to help along this difficult journey.
Also, my children will play a strong role whether they realize it or not!  Though them, i know i can find my strength.
By oldest daughter, who is 8, keeps saying that she wants me to live forever, and to please not die.  I don't say anything in front of her, i wonder where all these thoughts are coming from.  I think it's only an 8-year's worries, especially of her mom.  8-year olds are extremely clingy to mom during this time of their lives.  But i can't help but see it as almost an omen, that it is time to STOP before it's too late.
I saw a doctor today about my pains in my sides.  They took a blood test to check my liver and pancreas emzymes; i'll have the results tomorrow.  If the test comes out normal, i'm going to get an ultrasound to check my gallbladder and also my pancreas.  He said i am thin enough, that he believes he will be able to see my pancreas also.
I think I have pancreatitis (spelling?).  I'm a big internet surfer, and i've been surfing away on all the medical sites.
He asked me if i drink alcohol, and i told him that i did.  Not heavy, but still, am an alcoholic; i use it to numb myself and have been for a long time.
I didn't mention the pain meds, but we'll see what the results of the test show.
He's an internal doctor, and i remember last year, i called his office trying to get my husband to get himself checked out because he was sick and jaundice.  He didn't go, and his eyes cleared up over time, he was very very constipated and he was full of toxins.  But anyway, this doctor, i was told by one of the nurses there, helped her boyfriend quit his drinking addiction.  He seems like a doctor i feel i can trust, and I was impressed with the story she told me last year.
I'm taking little baby steps toward something at least.  I'm aware of what this addiction is doing to my body, and i guess i'm just opening the door into reality.  
I pray i am ok, but i know i can't continue this path because it will catch up to me eventually.  I'm not a young spring chick any longer, and the body stops letting you get away with things after a while.  I need a 'wake-up call'!
I deserve to be well again, and to be drug-free; i have too many things yet to do in my life for it to come to an end so soon.
I hope with all this knowledge i have gained by reading this forum, and all the other information i have acquired about addiction over the years, that i can help others who suffer with this horrible disease.  I need to get through it myself, then move on to help others because i really feel that i can make some good out of all this someday.
Again, i'm overjoyed at my husband's fasination with this board, and his need to learn more and more about recovery.  
The internet is a life-saving tool, and brings knowledge to people in so many ways!
You made me smile when i read your line about the guardian angels watching over me on this board!  Thank you, nothing is better than not feeling so alone in this battle.
I go to visit family in NJ in 3-weeks.  I've never used while up there visiting.  I've increased my quantities since the last time i was up there last November, but i'm going to try to get my levels down, then while visiting for the week, gain strength from my family.  Pray that this works and pray that i haven't caused any serious damage to my body!
I'm scared of the test results, but i know that i could no longer continue to ignore what i know i am doing to myself.
Take care of yourself, and thank you again! ~i~ ~i~ (little angels)
Lv Jenny

[Blueyed_male]

Everyone's rock bottom is different. Some people can just get up one day and walk away from their addiction. Others like me, have to go all the way down to the curb.

Most basic drug screen UA's check for methadone but they do vary. Since every additional drug they test for costs more money, some cheap drug screens only check for opiates, speed, and cocaine.

methadone is synthetic and is actually the big brother to darvon.

You know in your heart its only a matter of time before your ex gets caught. We all do sooner or later. Might be the best thing that ever happened to him.

God talks to us. We just spend most of our lives with our hands cupped over our ears. He allows life to slap us around a little to get our attention.

Unfortunately, some us never hear His voice. Ever seen a child put their fingers in their ears and scream at their parents?

I had to go all the way to skid row to hear God's voice. Today I own a internet cafe and espresso bar in southern cali. God took me from the mire and put me in the choir! I even married the choir director and we have a beautiful 6-year-old son.

God want to do more than just restore. He wants to take you to places you never dared to dream.

[susanlea]

Thank you for your compassion.  He doesn't seem to care about losing anything, he said as long as he has a job, a roof over his head, he can do without anything else.  After we broke up he came by about 3 weeks later. I asked him. (Do you really what to be alone the rest of your life?) He said he didn't care, I would have loved him forever......but I don't think he's even capable of loving himself.  If you read some of my posts you know the history.  Left his wife and 3 small children, his ex couldn't take the abuse, drug addiction.  He even set his daughter on fire accidently when he was high. She was 2 at the time and spent several days in the hospital. Got another girl pregnant while still with his ex-wife. He has nothing to do with her, and very rarely, maybe once a year he see's his youngest son. He had 4 kids by the age of 26, started at 19. He has no money, but lots of child support. The only way he has a car, I gave him one of mine. He moved 10 weeks ago. He's living with his parents. He's 38, and so lost. He had everything here. I own a very nice home, I have a good job. I'm no Cindy Crawford, but I'm not bad, and me and my children loved him.  He didn't want it. Now it's methadone.  He didn't even what to have sex, or he couldn't I stayed 2 years like this, taking care of him. Enabling him. He never had to do anything. Maybe he's incapable of having anything good happen to him.  Thank You        Love Susan

[Pillpoppa]

Hi lea,

Chaeck out my postings to niccee about methadone withdrawl.