nasal spray addiction

[stephanie]

it appears that i have been addicted to the neosyneferin nasal spray for two years now..it all began when i became ill with a siunus infection and i needed something to open my nasal passages..i started on the neosynefrin and could never get off it after that..i also suffer from time to time with what the doctor refered to as medicine nose, which is what i am going through again at the moment..my nose is continually blocked with constant discharge..i need to spray almost every half hour or so and sometimes more frequently..i'm nervous and panicky, irritable, can only sleep at one hour intervals and feel like i'm suffocating...i dread going to another specialist and being told that the only way out is going off the spray cold turkey which is unimaginable or having an operation..please tell me that in this day and age there is another possible route out of this madness..

desperate for your reply,
stephanie

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I have never heard of anyone being addicted to nasal spray.  I suppose that you could be addicted to the antihistamine in it.  Maybe there is an oral med that would allow you to taper off the spray?  The hard part of addiction is in dealing with the mental stuff associated with abstinance/withdrawals.  You may want to consult an addiction specialist for this problem.  J.B.

[FlowerChild11601]

I don't believe you are actually addicted to the ingredients in the nasal spray as much as you are addicted to what it does.  You see, when you use a nasal spray regularly, it causes your nasal passages to open, then a "rebound" effect afterwards.  Meaning that the passages close up as soon as it wears off (usually tighter than before).  This causes a vicious cycle because you need to keep using it to open them which continually causes the rebound effect.  The same thing happens with asthma inhalers and the lungs.  Your doc was right about going cold turkey.  You have become dependent on them to breathe and you must "train" your nasal passages to open on their own.  Unfortunately this means being completely stuffed up until this happens.  I don't know how long this will take.  I am sorry to hear you are going through this and I hope the info I gave you helps.  I am a nurse and often counsel my patients on the dangers of overusing nasal sprays and inhalers.  Good luck and God Bless, Maryanne

[chad]

Have any of you guys ever had CONTUGESIC (Codicontin?)  If so what are they similar too here in the USA?  (Percocet, Lortab, Oxycontin???)

[BDP_1971]

Steph, I FEEL YOU!!  I just happened to stumble onto this site after looking for information about something else and saw your post.  I too have an addiction to nasal spray and, to be perfectly honest, can't remember the last time I went a day that I didn't use it!  I'm 29 and having probably been squirting for at least the past six years.  I have similar problems to yours and know exactly how you feel.  I have been hooked on one spray (Vick's Ultra-Fine Mist 12hr spray) and it's the only one that works.  I've tried various other brands including prescribed brands from my doctor and nothing else can clear me up.  I say this to possibly support the notion that you could be addicted to the ingredients.  I am currently entertaining the possibility of deviated septum surgery.  You may want to look into this.  I know some people who have done it and they say it worked well for them.  But for now, I've added Claritin D (12 hr) to my daily pill-poppin regimen and it seems to have lessened my squirts.  Of course now, this will be a new addiction!  I know exactly what you mean about going cold turkey too!  Anxiety sets in when I don't get my "fix."  This of course makes breathing that much harder to bear.  Going cold turkey would be extremely difficult but to anyone that's ever done it, I'd love to hear story.  Good luck to ya!

[mindysan]

This is for Stephanie:  I have been addicted to nasal spray many times.  I usually get on it when I have a very bad cold.  The way to withdraw is one nostril at a time.  Don't be in a hurry.  Make sure the first nostril is nice and clear and then withdraw the second one.  There is no yearning for the spray once you have put it aside.  It is not like alcohol or morphine; it does not alter one's psyche so you don't yearn for it once the head is cleared up again.  Also, after you start withdrawing the first nostril it sometimes helps to use 'Breathe Right' at night.  This is a product which looks a bit like a bandaid which you put over the bridge of your nose to help open, physically, the nasal space.  I have been addicted to just about everything and clean for thirty years with the exception of nasal spray.  Good luck, kid.

[Tara]

Hi Stephanie,

I was addicted to otrivin 3 years ago for about 1 year.  I went to many specialists.  What I've been told is that nasal spray can be as addictive as morphine.  I had it everywhere, a bottle in every jacket and every drawer.  One time I went out of town for the weekend with my at the time boyfriend and in the middle of the night realized I had no spray, only one bottle and it was empty.  I had a panic attack, I thought I was dying and we were in unfamiliar surroundings so we had no idea where a 24 hour drugstore was.  After that I knew I had to quit.

I was also told that I had to go cold turkey.  What happens is your nostrils will swell up if it doesnt have the nasal spray to take down the swelling.  What I did is I took my regular dosage but only put it in one nostril at a time.  This way I could still breath (not perfectly of course), then I would cut the daily dosages in half.  I was completely off of it after 2 weeks.  

I have never used a nasal spray since and I never will.  If I get a cold I will use basic cold med's so that I do not feel that immediate relief and rely on it again.  Just thinking about it, I can remember the suffocated feeling I had everytime I thought the otrivin was wearing off.  It was a very scary feeling.

Try this, hopefully it will help.  I know exactly what you're going through.

Take care,

Tara

[Tara]

One more thing,

I would also use Vics vaporub and a humidifier.  It made the air seem more clear and it was easier to breath out of one nostril or just from my mouth. It won't make that much of a difference, but with all three in place, alot easier.

Tara

[mindysan]

Those are good words from Tara.  She mentions some things that I probably should have.  It may take a couple of weeks.  Be patient.  It is difficult but very reasonable and doable.

[Gloria]

Percocet is Oxycodone and Acetaminophen.  Lortab is Hydrocodone and Acetaminophen.  Oxycontin is Oxycodone in a sustained-release form.  Oxycontin is not a true contin, in that it is a short-acting medication that has been placed in a sustained-release form.  When you take Oxycontin, you get an immediate (in about 45 minutes) release of the medicine, followed by a timed release.  With MS Contin, it is a true contin, in that it gives a sustained release of the medication over an 8-12 hour period--no quick bursts of medicine followed by a timed release.  Chad, I do not have any drug books with me, so I am uncertain of the composition of Contugesic (Codicontin).  Maybe the above info will be of some help.  Maria.

[The Dude]

Maria,
    Yeah I know about all those drugs, I am addicted to most of them.  I was just unsure of what Codcontin is.  It is a drug offered on an overseas website.  I didn't want to order anything with codiene in it, codiene sucks.
Thanks anyway
Chad

[Thomas02]

I looked up your nasal spray on rxlist.com and found that it contains a drug called PHENYLEPHRINE HCL, a sort of a "poor mans's" speed, similar to drugs like sudaphed (a precursor to amphetamine). PHENYLEPHRINE HCL falls under the same classification of drugs as real speed, namely "SYMPATHOMIMETIC (ADRENERGIC) AGENTS." You've developed an addiction to what amounts to a very mild, amphetamine-like substance. If used in sufficient doses, I imagine it gives you a very mild lift in the same way a couple of sudaphed decongestant pills would. Just be thankful you're not hooked on a true amphetamine. You've simply gotten used to that very mild mood lift that the PHENYLEPHRINE HCL provides you. PHENYLEPHRINE HCL is one of those ersatz speed-like drugs these guys in the back of men's magazine like to sell in black capsules claiming they're legal "black beauties." You've got what amounts to becoming addicted to coffee for its caffeine. PHENYLEPHRINE HCL is so mild (that's why it's over the counter) that, with a little will power, mild exercise and, say, a good strong cup of coffee to give you that lift you'll miss, you should be able to get off the spray pretty easily. The drug is so mild, your addiction is mostly psychological. Stop using it, take regular walks for a few days, and drink a cup of strong coffee if you feel you need a little lift. That should get you past this addiction to PHENYLEPHRINE HCL. Like I said, be thankful it isn't real speed you're trying to get off of. Give what I say a try. I think you'll find that, after just a few days, you won't miss the spray at all. Count yourself lucky it's such a mild drug you're trying to quit. Perservere for just a few days and everything will be alright, I promise. Good luck. Let us know how you do. tom

[FlowerChild11601]

Hello!  Those were good words of advice you gave to Stephanie.  I forgot that a lot of models overuse (extremely overuse) certain nasal sprays for the speed like quality they can have.  The models use them to supress their appetite and therefore loose weight.  One model in particular - Nikki Taylor's sister- Chrissy Taylor, died a few years ago because she had a rare congenital heart defect and was overspraying for this effect. Her heart raced out of control and she collapsed.  Because no one was home with her to revive her, she was found dead hours later.  I am just repeating this story to let everyone know there are hidden dangers in the nasal sprays.  I also thought that weaning one nostril at a time was good advice.  Too bad we can't wean half our brain at a time from the opiates! ha ha  Take care, Maryanne

[Thomas02]

Hi Steph,
Hope you're well. Did you ever read any of the beat novels like Jack Keaurac's On the Road? He talks about buying up every Benzedrex nasal inhaler in sight, breaking them open and eating the blotter paper from each of them soaked in benzedrine (yeah, real benzedrine!). Imagine how popular Benzedrex inhalers would be today if they still contained real benzedrine! I guess the beat 50's were, in some ways, more innocent times than today. I remember using a Benzedrex inhaler as a 12-year old inthe early 60's and feeling all kinds of good. They still sell Benzedrex inhalers, but, obviously, not with real benzedrine in them. I think they contain the same stuff stephanie is hooked on. I like the idea of stopping one nostril at a time. Not being a user, I never would have thought of that.
Actually, if you check the ingrediants of Vicks nasal inhalers, you'll find they contain the CNS-inactive mirror molecule to honest to god speed, called in its rx form Desoxyn. I'm no chemist, but I understand that there are mirror image molecules called L-desoxyn and D-desoxyn. One of them, I think it's the D-desoxyn, is the big, bad Black Beauty speed which is obviously rx only. The CNS-inactive molecule is L-desoxyn, which clears up your nose without imparting any of the CNS stimulation speed is infamous for. Useless info, I know, but interesting nonetheless.

How are you these days, my dear?

[Thomas02]

speaking of nasal sprays, what's the story with this stadol nasal spray? I've heard that's extremely addictive, used, for the most part, to treat sudden-onset pain like migraines and cluster headaches. Is Stadol an opioid of some kind?

[Frankinscense]

Patrick:
Did I miss something? Is this the patrick that said he was using the forum for a working program. I do not understand. Enlighten me sir. I enyoy coming to this sight on occassion because I see good things happen here. But all the denial and false pretenses that happen here the majority of the time. I am sorry I do not mean to single out anybody but, give me a break! Man! All the talk and no action?   Well I quess maybe I missed something. I have not been here for a few weeks. How is your recovery coming my friend. How are your meetings coming along? Do you need a sponsor? Well I quess I'll dive and see where I come up...

[Thomas02]

if you must know, I've been working a 16-hour per day contract job within my profession in order to support my family (something you apparently don't have), so I have had little time to do much else. I am assuming you don't have wife or child since you never mention them. Must be nice to spend 24 hours a day thinking about your own needs. For your information, I have begun attending a weekly AA meeting in my area, not that I owe you that information, and plan to expand my involvement when my contract job permits. Frankly, I don't appreciate your tone and I'd prefer you stay out of my business and restrict your comments to other posters. Keep your self-righteous comments to those who want to read them. I don't need or want to hear from you. Got it?

[The Dude]

Pat,
   I don't think he was being an ass, he is just curious.  Every one of us on here has, or had a problem.  That's why we're here in the first place.  Anyway there is my 2 pennies.

[dee dee]

To Patrick Here's my 2 penny's worth.You just keep up all the good work your doing, and the informative posts. There are alot of people that appreciate you. DeeDee

[Beth]

Hello, all. I have been trying to post a thread here for weeks- literally, weeks, and every time I do, it says the limit for new questions is reached. So I'll just say right now, I am seeing a doctor and do not need any advice from a physician on here, therefore I do not mind that the staff cannot answer me.

The said- I have read every post on this board. I feel as though I have come to know some of you through your stories, and that is why I just couldn't wait any longer to tell you mine...I really, really wanted your feedback.

I will start at the beginning...I remember having my first migraine headache when I was three years old. I am now twenty. When I was a toddler, I would articulate the pain by screaming and beating my own head, trying to make it stop. They treated me with baby aspirin, which did nothing.

When I was seven or so, I really started to miss a lot of school and they had me on daily tylenol. They did nerological work, MRI's, etc, in an effort to try and find out the cause of these migraines. When I have one, I have such a horrible, constant pain that tears stream down my face for the better part of twelve hours...my vision is so obstructed by light spots ("Aura", to fellow migraine sufferers), the pain goes from my scalp to my neck and is concentrated in my eyes, and I am very nauseous. By the time I was a teenager, missing at least one day of school per week was the norm. I was still going to doctor after doctor, and still being treated with NSAIDS.

Now at age 20, I still experience almost daily migraines. I can't see, work, or function when I have them. The difference now is- the doctors blindly gave me so many NSAIDS...tylenol, ibuprofen, toradol, anaprox, advil, and in such large amounts that my liver and kidneys are ruined. I will most likely need a transplant for both by the time I am 30, all because so many doctors would rather people suffer than get over their fear and perscribe opiod treatments.

Last month I went to a pain management clinic for the first time. Upon looking at my medical records, they offered me Oxycontin, but I have no insurance and could not afford it. My wonderful new doctor then gave me Norco, as well as an anti-depressant and Methadone.

The moral of the story? I *hate* being dependant on anything, especially at my young age. But these opiate drugs have given me a LIFE. I have done things this past month that I have NEVER done before, mostly because I couldn't function. I looked into the face of the man I love and it was unobstructed...no light spots, no dark 'holes'...just bright colors and beauty, things I have never been able to see before because pain literally blinded me. I went to a MOVIE! Something I hadn't done since I was a toddler! And I *loved* it!

I sincerely hope and pray for each of you struggling with addiction. I wish you success and victory in your battle. But for those who live with chronic, intractable pain, I hope that you can use opiates in moderation if nothing else works for you. I have found a new life and new strength with Norco.

***Steps off soapbox!***

Thanks for letting me share! On the technical side, I <i>hated</i> the methadone</i>. It made my feet swell up like you wouldn't believe, and made me sleep all the time. I had a horrid experience with it. I know others have great pain relief and easier detox with it, but I feel like flushing my whole bottle. I'd be interested to know if anyone else had such adverse side effects.

[spook]

They are Dihydrocodeine,I find 180mg provides a medium quality high better than 300mg codeine,but not as good as dihydrocodeinone(hydrocodone)25mg.unlike codeine,dihydrocodeine can be used IV and is more sedative than codeine.In Australia it is available OTC in 7.5mg Dihydrocodeine/300mg aspirin tablets.
180mg is approx equal to 300mg of Codeine,except also qualitatively better Euphoria and analgesia.A box of 24 tablets provides 180 mg Dihydrocodeine and cost around $5(US $2.50).

[spook]

I cannot understand why the doctors did not prescribe antimigraine medication instead of all the NSAID`s,and why they gave you as an infant aspirin,when it is containdicated in under 2 year olds,as far as the methadone goes,to rapid an increase in dosage will cause oedema(swelling)and I slept for 18 hrs per day when I took it.The norco is Hydrocodone and you did not say what the antidepressant was,but it sounds like you are on the right mix now,although,I am slightly confused about the use of an Opioid to prevent Migraine,however if you feel good then so do I,lets keep it up.

[spook]

Name Butorphanol Tartrate (Stadol)
Class Opioid agonist-antagonist analgesic
Description Butorphanol is a synthetic analgesic that has effects similar to those of morphine (2mg of butorphanol is equivalent to 10 mg of morphine or 80 mg of meperidine). It has both narcotic agonist and antagonist properties, and should be used with caution in patients who are narcotic dependent. At present butorphanol is not restricted under the Controlled Substances Act.
Onset 10 min IM, 1-5 min IV
Duration 3-4 hours
Indications Relief of moderate to severe pain.
Pre-operative or pre-anesthetic medication

Used to relieve pre-partum pain

Contraindications Hypersensitivity
Head injury

Use with caution in patients with respiratory depression

Adverse Reactions Sedation, headache, vertigo, hallucinations, palpitations
Increase or decrease in BP

Respiratory depression (naloxone should be available)

Patient may experience symptoms of withdrawl.

Drug Interactions Phenothiazines, droperidol, tranquilizers and barbiturates may potentiat the actions of butorphanol.
Supplied 1mg/ml in 1 ml vials
2mg/ml in 1,2,10 ml vials

Dose/Administration Adult: IM: 2 mg every 3-4 hours as needed (range 1-4 mg)
IV: 1 mg every 3-4 hours (range 0.5 – 2mg)

Pediatric: Safety and efficacy unknown under 18.

Special Consideration Pregnancy Safety: Unknown
May increase cardiac workload in patients with CHF, MI, ventricular dysfunction or coronary insufficiency.

Use with caution in patients with end-stage liver disease

Has potential for abuse

[Beth]

Hi Spook, I don't know why I was given NSAIDS for so long either. At one point when I was 14 (1995) I was taking 2 bottles of ibuprofen a week. I wish I'd have known the damaging effects.

I also tried Imitrex, Amerge, Amatriptiline, (sp?) Propranalol (TONS of this stuff), and many, many blood pressure meds before the opiates and after the NSAIDS. None of the, worked, obviously.
The anti-depressant I am on is Zoloft. I was not diagnosed with depression and would have called myself depressed but it has made me look at most things in a more positive light. He also has me on Topamax which is an anti-seziure medicine. Sicne the nerves in the brain act similarly in a seizure as in a migraine, he wanted to try it. It has not decreased the frequency or intensity of my migraines, but now my hands don't tremble when I start to get one.

As for the Norco, I asked for it by name after I couldn't afford the oxycontin and was too scared to take that daily anyway. I had a friend who also had horrible migraines and norco worked for her, which is why I asked for it.

The methadone did make my feet and ankles swell something awful. I only took a 10 mg puill 2x a day which I undestand to be a relatively small dose, so I thought maybe I was allergic to it.

Anyway, yeah, now I feel GREAT!!!! God bless my <a href="http://www.paincare.org" target="_new">doctor</a>. I was even able to start my own <a href="http://www.eliteautoimage.com" target="_new">web design company</a> like I had dreamed of for years, thanks to these medicines! :-)

[spook]

I had A look at the link        http://www.paincare.org/                                      and noticed that they use the antidepressant fluoxetine(prozac) for migraine,You may ask your DR if maybe you should take it instead of zoloft.
How did you put a link on this page I thought that HTML was disabled?

[spook]

I had A look at the link        http://www.paincare.org/                                      and noticed that they use the antidepressant fluoxetine(prozac) for migraine,You may ask your DR if maybe you should take it instead of zoloft.
How did you put a link on this page I thought that HTML was disabled?

[Brighty]

Blessings to you young lady that you have your life back... you are courageous and inspirational !!

Spook is correct about the prozac. My friend of many years went on it several years ago for depression when her marriage was suffering and her teens were making her crazy. The interesting thing is that she suffered migranes all her life and had poor school performance due to them and also was plagued with eye and perceptual problems.... to this day she has trouble reading more than a couple of pages. Anyway, she had been on fiouranal (sp??) and other pain meds for years. She used to go to the headache clinic and get shots to administer to herself when she began to see the patterns that told her the migranes were coming.  When she went on the Prozac the migranes literally went away !! This was an unexpected side effect for her. About 18 mos. later she tried to wean off the Prozac and was unable... the migranes came back... she tried again close to another year later and was finally successful. And the best part is that the migranes are gone. She says she does get small minor headaches once in awhile and is able to get relief with the Excedrin for Migranes. As far as the Prozac for her depression... it was worthless ....she said she felt flat and not motivated... she was just covering her problems and too flat to even care to make changes. The only good thing was the nearly permanent relief from the migranes. Hope this story is of some interest to you. Love, Brighty

[Beth]

<font face="arial, helvetica, verdana">re Prozac- yes, I have heard it can help migraines...but I will not try it because <i>everyone</i> I have spoken to about it (at least a dozen people) say that it does take away your negative emotions, but it also takes away your positive ones. I have heard numerous times... "It's like I couldn't feel <b>anything</b>."

So I do not want to try it...nor do I want to try paxil because I hear the withdrawals can be SO hard on you. I know that both of these meds work for many people and I'm glad, but I don't want to use them. The zoloft makes me a little drowsy, but I am learning to combat that.

Spook- I never heard one way or another about HTML being disabled. I use ti in my messages and it seems to work fine.

Brighty...thank you <i>so</i> much for your encouragement! I am praying pain-free days for you...

[Brighty]

This is off topic but how did you get your post in that very different font than everyone elses ?? And how did you get those sites to open the browser ?? I don't know much about computers and when I want to offer someone a web site to read I have to type it in .... I don't know how to make it come up in another color and open when clicked on ???? ( Am I the only one here wondering about this ??????????????) Love, Brighty

[Thomas02]

chad,
I've known a million "doc dan's" and none of them is "just curious." They're zealots that post on sites like these to taunt and belittle. It's what gets them off. An ******* addict on methadone is just an *******. There are aspects of a man's character he can try to blame on drug addiction. But time (and the totality of his posts) tells me that doc dan is no friend of yours or mine. His position at the meth clinic has finally put him in a position where he has real power over other people. This is a man with a lot of unresolved anger and resentment who uses his new position at the meth clinic (and on this forum) to take his life out on those unfortunate enough to, one way or another, cross his path. Don't ever be so naive as to assume doc dan is "just curious" when he sends me a post like that last one. I did announce my retirement from the forum until I had entered a full-fledged program but several forum members asked me to reconsider. They said I was, in my own way, doing good by participating, so I decided to continue posting. However, I still post as "pat for tom" because I will not post again simply as tom until I make good on my pledge to enter appropriate treatment.

Chad,
You sound like a perceptive man. Re-read the bulk of doc dan's posts and then ask yourself, "Is this a man who comes to this forum to provide genuine comfort, advice or solace? Or does he come here to try to rub our hypocrisy, real, imagined or implied, right back in our faces and then sit back and have himself a big laugh at our expense?" Unfortunately, the practice of drug addiction virtually always includes an element of hypocrisy. And every last one of us, including doc dan, is guilty of its practice.

Doc dan's post to me was for the sole purpose of branding me a hypocrite and a self-serving fraud. Remember, Doc dan "lives" in a meth treatment center. His brains swims in its rhetoric 24 hours a day, seven days a week. The idea that we can't all just drop all our family responsibilities and go running off to a 90-day in-house rehab has never occurred to this Johnny-one-note.

I'd love nothing better than to be able to check out of life and into a rehab so an army of rehab specialists could "work on me." Unfortunately, I am working as a 1099 contractor these days because of the downturn in the IT industry, so I have neither the time nor the medical benefits to go near a rehab. So I do the best that I can do: try my best not to sink deeper into addiction while simultaneously performing as the sole support of my family, which, by the way, includes paying my son's college tuition.

I've got a full plate, as one might say, and I don't need to be the brunt of doc dan's animus and the subject of his taunting posts. He'd love nothing better than to hear that I died from an overdose in some alley, so he could pound out some long, self-aggrandizing post on this forum. He no friend of mine and I'm no friend of his. The less I hear from him the better. If you're reading this "doc" dan, please take my last post seriously when I told you never to address another of my posts ever again.

So, chad, I know you meant well with your comments regarding dan's motivation. However, I can't agree with your conclusions. His motivations run deep and dark and have little or nothing to do with a desire to provide guidance or comfort. The simple fact is he has a heart of stone and he has chosen to make our collective misery his stock and trade.

[Beth]

<table border="2" bgcolor="#D4D4F2" bordercolor="#6B69C9" cellpadding="20" cellspacing="0"><tr><td><font face="verdana, helvetica, arial" size="2" color="#6B69C9">
Hi Brighty...

I used [font face=verdana size=2 color=#6B69C9] on this message, only I used < > instead of [ ].

As for links opening in a new window...say I was typing a link to DrSteve's site I would type [a href="http://www.headdocs.com" target="_new"] only again I would replace the [ ] with < >

I hope this helps! If you have any more questions feel free to <a href="mailto:***@****">E-Mail</a> me! Don't feel bad if it takes you a few tries to get things right...it took me a long time to learn HTML the way I wanted to. Try praticing on some of the much older messages first. :)

</tr></td></table>

[Brighty]

Thank you !!!!! ( ?????????????? ) Honestly, I am clueless !! LOL !!! I don't know a thing about html... and to really confound me, it appears that Patrick posted just above you and suddenly HIS font looks like yours also. Is that a coincidence ????? I am really impressed with the lovely blue box your message is in !! It really adds a nice dimension to our hum drum board !!! :-))) Love, Brighty ( who is now wondering about computers as well as addiction !! )

[Beth]

<table border="2" background="http://www.tatmar.net/ljbg.gif" bgcolor="#31394A" bordercolor="#D6DCF0"
cellpadding="20" cellspacing="0"><tr><td><font face="verdana, helvetica,
arial" size="2" color="#D6DCF0">
Brighty- the other messages show up in that font also because I never closed the font tag. I love HTML and it's a great hobby to get into! I make good money designing webpages and there is always something new to learn. I try and stay focused on learning and working, rather than my pain or meds. If I am tempted to take more than three Norco in a day, I sit on this computer and <i>do</i> something until the 'must have' feeling passes.

There are a million places where you can get a free webpage to experiment with HTML. It is a great form of self expression and a wonderful way to keep your mind off certain things.
<P><center>
[<a href="mailto:***@****">E-Mail Me</a>]</center>
</tr></td></table>

[Gloria]

Beth, I am as clueless as Brighty in the HTML department, but
also LOVE what you have done to the facade of this forum.  Thanks!
I was very touched by your story, which once again reinforced my belief that, "pain is the thief of the human spirit."  I am glad that you have found a combination of medication that is beneficial to you.  SSRI's (Prozac, Zoloft, etc.) help migraine sufferers not because the individuals are depressed (even though some might be), but because serotonin is involved in the beginnings of a migraine.  Imitrex works because it imitates the effects of serotonin on blood vessels and raises the brain levels of serotonin by as much as 80%, when given at the onset of a migraine.  If Zoloft works for you, why switch?  If you want to explore a natural alternative for your migraines, you might want to check into 5-HTP.  Spook recommended a super site to Brighty regarding 5-HTP.  Best wishes.  Maria

[The Dude]

Hey Pat,
  I guess I was wrong.  Sorry.  Maybe you're right, I'm just not the type to argue or even disagree with someone, I've always liked to look at both sides of the story before I say anything you know?  Anyway take care
ChadB

[Thomas02]

no reason to revise your comments chad, this has been doc dan's MO since he showed up here one charmed day. By all means take advantage of what he knows -- just don't expect him to put an arm around your shoulder when you're hurting and lost and affraid and just need some unconditional companionship to get through the night.

[FlowerChild11601]

Hey!  Good to hear from you always!  I am SO glad you have not retired from the forum and as always am here to offer support in fighting this disease.  To anyone reading this that may agree with "Doc Dan" - WE ARE ALL ENTITLED TO CHANGE OUR MINDS.
Take care everyone!  Maryanne

[Thomas02]

yeah, I'm still around and ready to talk. How are you?

[spook]

Most of the symtoms you mention are the same as those that would result from an overdose of the active ingredient,just a thought?

[spook]

If you select edit on the top of your browsers tool bar you will be able to view the HTML directly to see how the page was composed.
<a href="http://www.paincare.org" target="_new">Spook at Paincare</a>.

[spook]

<a href="http://www.tatmar.net/ljbg.gif" target="_new">Click to See Black Square</a>.

[cindi]

Ok, Now I am really confused regarding HTML..I thought I was computer literate simply because I was able to turn the thing on and shut it down.  It's pretty cool to see what can be done....Like Spook's black square...Guess I'm bored today.  Anyway, Many years ago (now we are going back 15 or 20 years) I suffered from Migraines and they put me on Inderal and Elavil..I suppose the idea is the same.  I must be misinformed but I thought that Opiates were contraindicated in Migraines because they have a tendency to increase Intercranial pressure thus causing a more severe headache?  Well, at any rate it doesn't matter if it helps.  Patrick,  Your input is so greatly valued in this forum I hope You never decide to leave, I hope Dan doesn't hurt your feelings either.  I really cannot stand for one person to put another down, and it really irks me when someone purposely hurts another.  Have a great day everybody  Love to all cindi

[Brighty]

I went to the edit but there was nothing about HTML... just "select all, paste, find on this page" .... oh well !!! I am not too interested in this .

I do have a couple of questions... can you tell me your take on Ibogaine ?? Have you tried it ?? Is it safe and how does it work on addiction?  I am fully aware that it is very illegal in the US and Belgium... but not anywhere else. Would you recommend that a suffering addict try it for either detox or other positive side effects ?? I am intrigued but the information available is difficult to verify at best.

Thanks very much. Brighty

[cindi]

Hi Spook, Talk to me about Ritalin.   Alot of Hype here about people abusing it.  snorting it ect.  I think this may be happening to my friends' son.  Since it is not "made to be snorted"  this can be even more dangerous.....Thanks a bunch   Cindi

[spook]

I mean the edit icon on your browser along the same horizontal line as your back and forward icons,their should also be history,stop,refresh,full screen etc as well,you are looking at the edit text above this icon tool bar I am talking about,the one you mention is a drop down menu with the items you mention just above the one I want you to see..

[spook]

Hi Cindi,In australia Ritalin is a schedule 8,that makes it a schedule 2 in USA,and it is only used for ADHD(and possibly refractive Narcolepsy),the abuse potential of Ritalin is slightly less than Dexedrine(D-Amphetamine)and therefore it is under strict control by the Health Dept,from what I have heard Ritalin is prescibed for Depression in America and to quote somebody "handed out like candy",this I find very curious?.First pass Metabolism by the Liver results in approx 30% Bioavailability,meaning that snorting or injecting will increase effects threefold,as well as change Pharmacodynamic properties to the extent that a sudden increase in blood Plasma levels will occur,this illicits profound euphoria of the usual CNS stimulant type(similar to amphetamine high),as Ritalin through poorly understood mechanisms stimulates the RAS(reticular activating system )and Cortex.Plasma half life is around 2-3 hours.
treatment of overdose is supportive measures aimed at reducing Hypertension and gastric lavage,IV diazepam (Valium)or Haloperidol for Agitation,Hypertension controlled by the usual alpha-adrenergic blocking agents.
Intensive care for maintaining circulation and respiration will be required in extreme OD along with external cooling.
So it is not really any diffent to treating somebody for Amphetamine or cocaine overdose (or any Psychomotor Stimulant)
You would need a big nose and a lot of tabs to shut down circ and resp.So I think it is in my humble opinion no more toxic than dexedrine or Phenylephrine,ie just do not OD and know that it is Addictive,No Neurotoxicity had been demonstrated.
Best to just have a nice strong coffee,I think.....then again I would try it,maybe once or twice.

[spook]

<b>You got all that yet Brighty</b>

Just showing off how to do bold writing.......

[spook]

Hello,no I have not tried it(yet) and do not think it is illegal here(I have to check my schedule 8-list,same as schedule 1 and 2 in USA)actually they stuffed up our regulations here,nobody has noticed yet but hydromorphone(Dilaudid)is not classified or scheduled ,I have just spent a while studying it(see link below),and apparently nobody has any idea how it works or exactly how well it works,much more research needs to be done,on top of that it is undoubtably a Hallucinogen and possible euphorigen/the natives who chewed the root claimed aphrodisiac effects and CNS stimulation.
I think Clonidine is the best thing to take to alleviate acute Opioid withdrawal symptoms.Ibogaine is claiming to prevent reward from Opioids occuring,and help alleviate withdrawal symptoms,prevent addiction,and or relapse,they claim it is not rewarding or addictive ,but the US GOVT rapidly made it an Schedule1 drug.I think it is a very complex molecule that acts synergistically through very many Neuro-systems.
=================================================================
<a href="http://www.ibogaine.org/alkaloids.html" target="_new">Everything One would ever need to know about Ibogaine</a>.
=================================================================

[spook]

<b>Sounds Good to Me!</b>

Human Studies.
    Numerous psychotropic actions of ibogaine have been reported. These actions seem to depend on both dose and setting. In addition, the psychoactive effects of iboga extracts (which are likely to contain additional alkaloids and are usually taken in a ritualistic setting) may be different from those of ibogaine. Thus, users of the crude extract of Tabernanthe iboga taken in sufficiently high doses have reported fantastic visions, feelings of excitement, drunkenness, mental confusion and hallucinations when (101). The total extract of iboga shrub is certainly a central stimulant, and in higher doses may lead to convulsions, paralysis and finally respiratory arrest. The psychotropic actions of the plant extract include visual sensations; objects are seen to be surrounded by specters or rainbows. In high doses it may produce auditory, olfactory and taste synesthesias. The state of mind has been reported to vary from profound fear to frank euphoria (141).
    When given orally, both ibogaine and the total iboga extract elicits subjective reactions that last for approximately 6 hours. Fifty percent of subjects are reported to experience dizziness, incoordination, nausea, and vomiting (7,33,142). Typically, the drug produced a state of drowsiness in which subjects did not want to move, open their eyes, or attend to the environment. Many subjects were light-sensitive, and covered their eyes or asked that the lights be turned off. Sounds or noises were disturbing. Ibogalin (0.1-1.2 mg/kg, p.o.), an alkaloid closely related to ibogaine and a constituent of the total iboga extract, did not produce psychotomimetic effects in humans (143). Ibogalin also differs from ibogaine in pharmacokinetics and tremorigenic activity (90).
    The psychoactive properties of ibogaine and related compounds were studied by Naranjo (33,142) who reported that patients described the psychic state produced by ibogaine (~ 300 mg) as similar to a dream state without loss of consciousness. Ibogaine-induced fantasies [often described as a "movie run at high speed" or "slide show" (7)] were reported as rich in archetypal contents, involving animals and/or the subject with or without other individuals. These fantasies were easy to manipulate by both the subjects and the psychotherapist (33,142). At higher doses, ibogaine appears to produce visual and other hallucinations associated with severe anxiety and apprehension (101,144,145).

[Brighty]

Thank you.. I am familiar with the material you posted on Ibogaine. I am most interested in understanding it's powerful and unmistakable ability to interrupt addiction, to also bring a person through a withdrawl unscathed and without discomfort and it's effect on the neurotransmitter system to relieve cravings... almost totally in many people. Of course the US scheduled it... maybe because it works. Also seems to be in keeping with our other archaic drug laws that make criminals out of wounded people. It is not addictive and has a nearly zero abuse potential. I was wondering if you had personal experience to share. No problem... I am grateful for all the other information you have provided here. Love, Brighty

[Brighty]

Ok... I am not seeing what you say I should .

Top tool bar: file, edit,view, favorites, tools, help

the 'edit' there is a pop down with:cut, copy,paste, select all, find(on this page)

Lower tool bar: back, forward, stop, refresh,home, seaarch, favorites, history, print, real.com

Below that is just the address window,go, links

See... I don't have another 'edit' ..... now what ???
Love, Brighty

[spook]

Now you have found the tool bar I am talking about you will have to add EDIT to it if it is not their as you say.
1.right click on this tool bar
2.left click "customize"
3.from the "available tool bar options"left plane-box find EDIT
4.left click to highlight
5.now click "ADD"
6.and finally close.
note- while you are their you may want to get rid of the silly,invasive real.com icon and select"small icons'see at bottom of same dialog box.That way your browser window frame will be bigger and tool bar smaller.If you want to make it all nice and neat put separators between each item(Icon).

Now when all this is done whenever you are viewing a web page and they are all HTML(Hyper text markup language)you can select "EDIT" and view the page in notepad,thus see how the page is constructed in HTML,as when viewed through your Browser it removes Markup Aspect of the language,from this observation you can learn how to add links ,colours,BOLD text,and many other things,until finally the Web site Administrator gets upset and tells you to stop playing around.Like with some sites I can embed Applications,VBS script,java applets,etc even a nasty little virus if somebody annoyed me.Restrictions depend on the security permissions of the Web page and the System Administrators Incompetence.
I hope you do not expect this all to be easy as I have been studying computing(all aspects now for about 14 months)and it is only in the last couple that I have been able to see how ridiculously easy every thing I told you above is and how LITTLE I know.And I have averaged about 6 hours study per day,If you copy and paste the below into a new text file(*.txt)and and then save then rename to Key.reg and then double click it,you will see how powerful and simple "Visual Basic Scripting"(VBS)is.It is a very simple program I wrote to find missing product key numbers needed to reinstall or install Windows.  


  Set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
Set fso = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
pk = WshShell.RegRead("HKLM\software\microsoft\windows\currentversion\productkey")
pkf = fso.GetSpecialFolder(2) & "\pk.txt"
Set f = fso.CreateTextFile(pkf,True)
f.WriteLine(pk)
f.Close
OK=MsgBox ("Product Key is " & pk & vbcrlf & close ,1,"Lukes Windows 9X Product key Finder" )
If close = 1 then WshShell.Run
fso.DeleteFile(pkf)

[spook]

<b>Sorry correction,rename to Key.vbs-see below</b>
Now you have found the tool bar I am talking about you will have to add EDIT to it if it is not their as you say.
1.right click on this tool bar
2.left click "customize"
3.from the "available tool bar options"left plane-box find EDIT
4.left click to highlight
5.now click "ADD"
6.and finally close.
note- while you are their you may want to get rid of the silly,invasive real.com icon and select"small icons'see at bottom of same dialog box.That way your browser window frame will be bigger and tool bar smaller.If you want to make it all nice and neat put separators between each item(Icon).

Now when all this is done whenever you are viewing a web page and they are all HTML(Hyper text markup language)you can select "EDIT" and view the page in notepad,thus see how the page is constructed in HTML,as when viewed through your Browser it removes Markup Aspect of the language,from this observation you can learn how to add links ,colours,BOLD text,and many other things,until finally the Web site Administrator gets upset and tells you to stop playing around.Like with some sites I can embed Applications,VBS script,java applets,etc even a nasty little virus if somebody annoyed me.Restrictions depend on the security permissions of the Web page and the System Administrators Incompetence.
I hope you do not expect this all to be easy as I have been studying computing(all aspects now for about 14 months)and it is only in the last couple that I have been able to see how ridiculously easy every thing I told you above is and how LITTLE I know.And I have averaged about 6 hours study per day,If you copy and paste the below into a new text file(*.txt)and and then save then rename to Key.vbs and then double click it,you will see how powerful and simple "Visual Basic Scripting"(VBS)is.It is a very simple program I wrote to find missing product key numbers needed to reinstall or install Windows.  


  Set WshShell = WScript.CreateObject("WScript.Shell")
Set fso = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")
pk = WshShell.RegRead("HKLM\software\microsoft\windows\currentversion\productkey")
pkf = fso.GetSpecialFolder(2) & "\pk.txt"
Set f = fso.CreateTextFile(pkf,True)
f.WriteLine(pk)
f.Close
OK=MsgBox ("Product Key is " & pk & vbcrlf & close ,1,"Lukes Windows 9X Product key Finder" )
If close = 1 then WshShell.Run
fso.DeleteFile(pkf)

[Brighty]

WOW.... i have just added the edit and deleted the real.com.... I am going to print out your complete response and then do some playing !!! I don't think we are to use this board for computer class :-)) so I am printing everything... they have been really nice not to delete this yet !!! You have a very good way of presenting what you know... have you considered teaching ???

Thanks so much... I will now have a little more in my cranium than I awakened with today. :-))

Love, Brighty

[spook]

If it was not for my `mild`-panick disorder induced aversion to being in public places(I have always been very very shy) and my long term cannabis use induced amotivational syndrome and poor short term memory,I would LOVE to teach,however money is not my reward and I just taught you something and feel good now,because of that.Maybe with Gods will ,I will reach out and help more people.Now going back to the point you suggested I could be a teacher,that is good because I know how to teach,I Know how to make people remember and add interest to otherwise boring subjects,and entertain them in the process,I have always lusted after a career where I can help and entertain at the same time.I will push on and maybe get there.Thank you for the compliment.Also I cannot help but thinking (please without putting my own mother down)if she had,had the empathy and intelligence and compassion of you I would be a teacher now,but because of her,she has taught me how to be independent and strong willed and emotionally self sufficient and I would not trade that for anything,even though it almost KILLED me in accepting my predicament.Sometimes I feel like talking to you more about your Daughter and how she got so far off the PATH with a KIND mother like you.

[cindi]

Spook!! you absolutely amaze me on a daily basis.  You shy?  I would have never guess. Ahem...especially the penis talk in the other thread  LOL.  All kidding aside....You are right about you teaching,  Just by reading your posts I have learned something new everyday.  You are a very good teacher and very interesting I might add.  As far as Brighty's daugher and her path, I to had a very good mom, compassionate, caring and very very protective. I was brought up well, my dad was a police officer and kept tight reins on us.  I veered off of my path when i discovered that any "mood altering chemical" would make me feel less pain and make me happy all the time.  When I was around 29 I started heavily into the opiates rather than dabbling. The reason?  a terrible relationship that caused me alot of pain, mostly emotional.  the relationship for me was very traumatic. the man was 14 years older than me and it was just a mess. The drugs were there and my pain was not gone but covered up by everything and anything.  My point is:  We can raise our children, instill good morals and values in them, guide them and support them but when they are all grown up they are responsible for the choices they make.  I believe I was doomed as far as being an addict from the beginning.  I have always had the typical personality I think I have mentioned in other posts.  Insecure, low self esteem etc. and for no good reason other than that was just   me.    Well anyway, I'm sorry to once again stick my nose in a post but my mom used to always ask me "what did she do to make me become an addict"  finally I think she understood it was not her fault at least she died with that peace.   Have a good weekend   Love to all cindi

[spook]

Just letting you know I read the above and appreciate it.I am 37 years old and single,never married and do not have children and both my parents are alive and well,my Mother works as a Solicitor and owns her own Firm and my Father is semi-retired(has an antique business)But was a Doctor of Zoology at our Main University.So as you can see,I am possibly just still a little baby really,anyway,I think I have soiled my social nappy enough for now,seeya soon.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I really like you, Spook.  I'd like to sit down and enjoy a good bottle of beer with you some day!  J.B.

[Brighty]

I'll cook all day for everyone if I can join you.... wouldn't want to miss this for the world !!
Love, Brighty

[cindi]

Hey guys, don't leave me out,  I'll help Brighty do the cooking and I'll leave the kids at home,   This would be an historical event......love to all cindi

[PS >>>>Annie]

I'll cook something too.  Yall wouldn't believe what I can cook, but if I told you, then everyone would know who I am and where I'm from.  Darn!  
It's very yummy.....lol
Love you guys!
Annie  (:

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I worked with several Aussies back in the seventies at Chevron and enjoyed these people immensely!  It was one big party after the next.  The jokes and antics never ended after hours and way into the evening.  I'd like to think that all of us here could stop taking ourselves so seriously for a while and just enjoy life for a moment.  Don't we deserve it?  J.B.

[cindi]

Yall?   kinda gives me a hint......LOL   Love to yall   cindi

[cindi]

You are so right, We all deserve to enjoy everything around us,  I have had such a horrible year, and you and Marty, you certainly deserve it. Really though, wouldn't it be too cool if we could all be together sometime?  I feel as though all of you are my family anyway and I can always relate to what everyone has to say here.  Love to all and Marty    PS  Do ya think Annie may have dropped a hint or two with her Yall?  I think that is so cute....I get this funny feeling she can make some mean Southern Fried Chicken and Okra.     PSS has anybody heard from Maria?   Hope all is well with her...

[PS >>>>Annie]

.......Your very close.  Smarty.....lmao!!!  Just a little further down .......and you will get ....Yall! lol

[cindi]

my sister moved to NC and within a matter of a few months she was saying yall.   sounds funny coming from a yankee...Northerners are yankees arent' we?  LOL   question?  Do you make a mean gumbo?  do you like cajun cuisine?   Just trying to figure out the mystery   LOL   how are you feeling,  It's just a matter of time and you will be good as new    Love ya   cindi

[PS >>>>Annie]

........Very well done my dear Watson.  Gumbo it is!  Need I say more?? lol.......

Yes...I'm doing much better.....and I just had the staples removed.  OUCH!!!  They bite. lol I will have to practice bending at the knee, or off to physical therapy or should I say physical terror-py I go.......ANd guess what ....I got my refills on my lil 5mg tablets, buy they are better than nothing......and I just came right out and told him that I needed refills.....He didn't argue.....lol  

You seem to be in better spirits lately......if so.....I'm glad!
Keep up the good work.

Love Ya

Annie

[cindi]

I am glad you are feeling better.....so cajun huh?  I like playing detective especially when YALL give such good clues  LOL  Yes My spirits are improving on a day to day basis, that is all i can do. When I am bored is when I get to thinking.  I try and stay busy.  I'm glad you got a refill, Just remember don't overdo anything, strenuous exercise etc.  If ya need to talk or anything you can always e-mail me.   Love ya  cindi

[Misty777]

Stephanie. I understand where your coming from. I too have been addicted to nasal sprays for over 10 years.
There is a product that you can purchase to help you slowly reduce the amount you use till completely withdarwn from it.
Go to www.rhinostat.com    they offer a kit that dilutes your spray and by a month your done ......you have no withdrawl effects nothing..your gradualy diluting the drug and your passages need less to return to normal.........Good luck! it works

[PS >>>>Annie]

I just read your above post in response to Brighty's suggestion.
I think she is right.  Hey...we do have something in common, and that is teaching.  That was my major in college>> Elementary Education.  Now I want a law degree.....lol  And we both know why?? lol  I also have issues w/ shyness.  My parents had put me in positions at a very young age to be in "the public eye," and I couldnt handle being in front of people.  Music is in my genes also, but there we go again w/ the public.  
I hope you can rise above it and find something that fills you, and that will be rewarding.  I feel really bad sometimes, because I am not getting younger, and could have done more with my life, but "hey" don't we all wish that????

Annie I

[SmokinPaws]

I read above about the young lady killing her liver and kidneys with APAP(acetaminophen) and ibuprofen. She has now switched to Norco. Like all good Pharmacists, i feel the need to tell her she's now taking more acetominophen than over the counter offers in one dose. I really hope that you are okay, and that your liver enzymes are being monitored. Just trying to help, SmokinPaws.
P.S. You can get Oxycodone and Codiene in many stregths without the tylenol in them. Good luck to everyone

[cindi]

Thank you for the info...maybe you could stick around and give us alot of advice..which is always welcome here    love to all cin

[arni0202]

I've been having a similar struggle with Nasal Spray but mine goes a little beyond the recovery.  I've been off of the nasal spray for over a year now, but ever since I've had at least one nasal passage full of mucus.  Not only that, but the back of my throat where my nasal passages connect to my throat, there's always a funky taste or smell coming from there.  Gross I know, if I swallow I can feel something.  Ugh it's hard to explain.  but after I told my doctor he sent me to an ear nose and throat doc and he just put me on two weeks of nasal steroids that did nothing.  any suggestions?  could it be a lingering infection of some kind?  The E,N,T Dr. didn't see anything alarming apparently.  I hate the feeling of one nostril always being blocked and full of mucus :(  somebody help!  

[Adam07]

Probably not the case, but I often get Tonsilloliths. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonsilloliths
They taste and smell horrible.

Just wanted to say that I quit cold turkey many years ago and I am very happy I did.

Kind of a distant memory in my mind, but I remember being addicted for 4 or so years.
My mom bought Otrivin for me when I was 8 years old because she was tired of me complaining about a stuffy nose.

I started off just using them when I had a cold and couldn't breathe properly.
But then I couldn't get over how easily I could breathe when on a nasal spray.
Even when I was healthy, the nasal spray would allow me to take in incredibly deep and unrestricted breaths of air.

I began to take the Otrivin out of the medicine cabinet and spray it in my nostrils everyday. One gets so used to it, that later on you increase the concentration to meet your needs.

Over the years I always had an Otrivin bottle stashed somewhere. When I went to a friends house for a sleep over I made sure I had one in my pocket.
Missing a night made me miserable. Something my mom couldn't take, so she kept on buying me refills.
Some nights when the container was running low, I would cut the container open and make use of all last drops that I could get out of the bottle.

It was a great feeling -- being able to breathe so well. I despised breathing through my mouth, and at this point, if I ever missed a day, my nasal passages would totally close up -- not being able to breath through my nose at all.

Well, I think it was when I was 12, my mom said enough is enough. She no longer bought Otrivin for me and for the next couple of weeks (forget how long it took), I was forced to breath through my mouth.
It was tough for me. I felt like I couldn't get enough air in and was going to suffocate.
The skin in my nostrils also seemed to get inflamed/easily irritated.

Now I am in my 20's and believe that I can breathe as well as I used to without the nasal sprays.

Again, I am very happy that I stopped and suggest to anyone that is currently addicted to find the courage and stop cold turkey ASAP.

[bridgefreak]

I too used to be addicted to nasal sprays! Mostly dristan.The Only way I got off was with oral steriods to bring down the inflamation (inflammation)!! First they gave me an injection to BOOST the efffect! That worked wonders for me!!! Forget cold turkey! It don't work! Also long term nasal spray use can affect your sense of smell,as it sure did me!! It took 4yrs to get my smell back! I ONLY USE COLD PILLS NOW!!!!! My Dr will give me a rx for sudaophedreine if it is severe.In MN you can't get it without a rx due to heavy meth use here. Sure hope this helps you

[j78]

I have a bad addiction to nasal spray an cold turkey will not work I just panic like crazy because I cannot breathe through my nose and it is a horrible feeling. My doc gave me a steroid shot and some nasonex it has been 2 days and the stuff seems to be helping. I also have quit nasal spray in my right nostril for 4 days and in my left I took a bottle of saline solution and added 1cc of nasal spray. Now I am sraying one nostril 5 or 6 times a day but with mostly saline solution with just a little bit of the nasal spray added to the bottle. I believe this is the best way to ween yourself off. I am also taking oral decongestant but I think this may be drying me out. I hope that this helps someone. If you are having trouble try this method. Also Breathe right strips do work well at night along w/ a warm air vaporizor with medicated solution going in the room while you are sleeping. Most Vaporizors will last for 10-12 hrs make sure to add salt to the water for maximum steem. Good luck people I'm know I'm gonna make it now and it feels great. U can too good luck.

[Savas]

This is a very old thread (2001) so don't be surprised if these people don't respond back. :)

I will say that OTC nasal sprays are VERY physically addictive short term. The rebound effect is monstrous!
I had a singing audition once and had a cold, and used Dristan the whole day up to the audition. The next day I thought my head was going to explode. It took a few days before I got back to normal. I'd never use one again unless it wa a like emergency.

[j78]

It's me again just wanted to report that is has just been a couple days now it has been almost 27hrs since i have sprayed anything except saline solution and I feel great. This method will work there is help just remeber. First get off one nostril then take steriod shot from your doc or vice versa whichever is easier 4 u. I think getting off one nostril first will make it easier but that's just me. Mucinex decongestant oral works great get this at pharmacy from behind the couter. Then mix down your nasal spray try 1 cc with bottle of saline or mix half an half if this does not work. Gradually reduce at your own pace using breathe right strips at night and when needed. Good luck I know it seems hard now but it not 2 bad trust me I have been where u are.

P.S. Vick's vapo rub and a warm air vaporizor or 2 can't hurt and a friend of mine who did this COLD TURKEY said she kept a Halls Menthlyptus drop in her mouth the whole time almost. YOU CAN DO IT. GET ON IT

[autobodywizard]

I was addicted to Afrin for 18 years.
I used my own method that beats all of these. I am not looking to make money off this. Just willing to help. I have been off of it since 1996. I did it with no withdrawl symptoms. I already helped a few people get off of it. Feel free to email me at ***@****
Dan

[GoingToMakeIt]

emails are not allowed on the forum, and you are posting on an older post

[Bu300]

I just realized i do have an addiction. i didnt believe myself when i started waking up each night going through he medicine cabinet to find otrivin. i was at the door once going out and found myself runing back in to get otrivin and then i realized there is something wrong here, i think i might have an addiction, it doesnt make sence to me, but now after reading all this i realized that it does happen, i will start trying out the one nostril at a time thing and see how that works, i just cant breath from my mouth!! Thanks for having such a topic discussed.

[Gleniver]

I was addicted to otrivine nasal spray for many years. I didn't realise it was a problem until one day when it registered that I'd only bought a bottle of the stuff two weeks before - I thought 'how many of these bottles am I getting through?' I tried going cold turkey a couple of times but just ended up back on the otrivine again - it was too difficult I felt like I was suffocating. I went to the doctor for help who gave me a beconase spray which didn't even begin to touch the congestion or 'rebound congestion' as by now I realised this was what it was. Then I came to this site and read that someone had tried going cold turkey one side at a time. I thought this really made sense so I used otrivine on the left side and the beconase spray prescribed by the doctor on the right as well as inhaling eaucalyptus oil and dabbing a little under my nose before bed. It wasn't easy to start with and I had disturbed sleep at night f or a while but when the right side was nice and clear I then tackled the left side. Three months on I am completely free from the misery caused by rebound congestion and now if I am bunged up I inhale eucalyptus oil-just a few drops in steaming hot water. I also bought a product called SINOL from an internet website which is homeopathic and is not addictive, the peper in it is meant to clear sinuses and congestion - if I have a cold and am feeling  very bunged up I have a few puffs of that but generally do not need anything now. I hope this may help someone - I was so desperate 3 months ago I thought I'd just have to keep taking Otrivine. I took great pleasure in binning the seven or more bottles I had dotted around the house - one in my makeup bag, one in the bathroom cabinet etc etc crazy. Good luck to anyone attempting to free themself from the misery nasal spray addiction causes - YOU CAN DO IT!

[Reese911]

Rhinostat is a joke and it does not work. It's a waste of money, I've tried it. You're better off going cold turkey, the first day is the worst. If you can make it through a whole week you'll be fine. Just don't use it. Don't believe the hype, there is nothing to aid or ween you off. In fact, "weening" will most-likely just lead to full-on use again. Trust me, just put it down and suffer for a week or two and you'll be fine.

[Hex510]

Rhinostat isn't all it's cracked up to be, no - but the idea of weaning yourself off of the compulsion to use the sprays by a dilution method is the only one that worked for me. I was stuck using the sprays for 8 years because I couldn't sleep at night, and the feeling of breathing through your mouth for the 'cold turkey week' was just such pure hell I couldn't manage it. THIS is what works.

I tried Rhinostat. I figured, the only reason you get the rebound congestion in the first place is the result of continued exposure to the vasoconstricting drugs, yes? Lower the exposure slowly, and eventually the rebound effects will lower as well. So I bought a kit. It didn't work because the information with Rhinostat suggests using it in both nostrils at the same time, and the solution becomes too weak too quickly if you use it in the concentration an 'addict' is used to. Then you get rebound effects, run out of diluent, and have to start over again. BUT! Here's how I got off it completely in about a month, with minimal suffering. I still had the rhinostat kit, so I decided to wean myself off the stuff using the diluent method; threw away the stuff they gave me, cleaned out the bottles thoroughly. I bought one bottle of Otrivine drops for the left nostril only (the worst affected one) and used the rhinostat method on the right nostril first with another bottle of Otrivine, and diluting every day what went into that nostril. IN ADDITION, I made up a solution of ordinary table salt and water in the rhinostat diluent bottle and used it frequently on both nostrils in between applications of the nasal drops. In a week I was 50% off the Otrivine in the right nostril, and still on the full amount of Otrivine in the left. The key is using the salt solution I made, because it acts like a weaker version of the drug, drawing water from the swelling of the nasal tissues out of the tissues (instead of constricting the blood vessels), but there is no side effects from ordinary salt water. Using it frequently, it lubricates the nose, keeps the swelling down, and isn't unpleasant in any way. Also, each day I topped up the diluting bottle with more of the same salt water. By three weeks, the right nostril was practically free, and for some reason, once I started on the left, it only took three days of that and using salt solution for it to calm down and not need the Otrivine. Wonderful! I barely noticed the process, and I think it's all down to regular use of the salt water. Yogis use it daily as a cleansing practice, and it's in no way harmful. I am still using it whenever my nose dries out because after 8 years I'm sure the lining of my nose has some healing to do, and it still dries out frequently, or whenever I'm near someone who is smoking. But - I'm free of the drugs, and it feels wonderful not to have to reach for that little bottle every few hours, or have to go and buy it weekly, and of course my nose doesn't swell up when it isn't getting it anymore... just whenever it feels a bit dry the salt sorts it out.

So there it is folks - Rhinostat didn't work, but the bottles they sent me I used in a dilution method I cooked up worked for me, so why not try it with any small sterilised dropper bottles and some home-made saline? Yes, I still use the saline, but my nose lining probably needs a while for the cilia to grow back so it can operate like a normal nose lining again, and saline is safe, extremely cheap to make, and has no rebound effects.

[Hex510]

Oh, and P.S - never try to wean off BOTH nostrils at once - you'll notice the discomfort too much! Keep your worst (most easily blocked) nostril on the full amount of nasal spray while you free up the better one with weaning it off the spray. Administer saline to both nostrils, but only wean one from the drug at a time. Once the better one is free, start on the other, and the process might (through force of habit or some psychosomatic aspect perhaps) be a lot quicker and easier than the first, like mine was!

Good luck, but it really is just a matter of simple chemistry and sticking to the plan!

[Gleniver]

Well done you did really well, I'm glad you are well on the road to recovery. Like you I was addicted to otrivine for many years and as a result the lining of my nose becomes dry frequently - I guess like you say it could take time for things to settle down. Your idea of using a saline solution whilst you were trying to wean yourself off the otrivine was  a very good one and I wish I'd thought of that. I have more recently discovered a product in Boots the chemist called Sterimar which probably does exactly what you described - it's brilliant and would recommend that to anyone desperate for a little relief whilst trying to tackle rebound congestion or post addiction dryness (it's an all natural salt water spray with easy to use nozzle - really great for young children with colds too it is safe for anyone to use with no side affect - ÂŁ6-7.00 pounds from Boots in UK). I also find now that if I get the slightest cold I am prone to suffering from very blocked sinuses, I have found an all natural product called Sinol helps me with this though it is a bit pricey and I don't know if it would suit everyone.The sterimar salt water solution also helps with this sinus problem I now have from time to time. Good luck to you all.

[vlcreations]

I can't believe how uninformed people are. The ingredient in the nasal sprays that causes the rebound effect is benzalkonium chloride. It is used as a preservative in most steroid nasal sprays and the OTC nasal sprays like Afrin and Dristan and it is also in those so called "natural" nasal sprays like Sinol. I used Sinol for a week and got a nasty rebound congestion from it. Luckily I have Rhinocort(no benzalkonium chloride) so I am using that to help combat it while my nose gets back to normal. If you are using "all natural" sinol look up the preservative benzalkonium chloride and see what just exactly you are squirting up your nose-that ingredient is far from being "natural" as they claim.

[marcatj]

hey buddy, you posted this on a very old thread, and may very easily get overlooked.

hope you will repost on a new thread...

warm wishes,
mj