need some help

[emwave]

has anyone ever been addicted to diphenoxylate?  I know I am and am wondering if anyoone knows how long it takes before my  doctor can can put me on bup (low dose, short time).  Am in wd right now -- sorry if I'm not being clear enough.  thx

[TrayCee]

So sorry youre in wd's but... your addicted to Lomotil?  That is definitely a new one for me.  Its such a l o w dose opiate I didnt realize it was addictive.  How many and how long have you been on them?
Are you sure Bupe is the right way to go?  It seem like going from the frying pan to the fire.

[theeagle]

Are you taking it as Lomotil?  All of the opiates slow down GI motility.....thats why they are in diarrhea medications. And, even though its low strength, the diphenoxylate  carries a warning of dependence....  I would personally not want to use sub to stop taking the diphenoxylate I dont believe........... sub also has withdrawals.....  its very hard to avoid all of the discomfort.....  But if you are in active withdrawals your doc should be able to dose you ..............

[emwave]

oh -- i figured out a way to remove the atropine (don't try this at home, plz).  So I take the equivalent of 50 - 100 tabs at a time.  Should have explained that.  I don't even like bringing this up because I'm afraid someone will OD thinking they can do what I've been doing -- highly unlikely and very dangerous.

I should add that I had a mild hydro habit -- 4-5 a day, but couldn't shake it.  Went to a done clinic, told them i just wanted to detox.  knew nothing about done.  They put me right upto 150mgs.  I had no idea what the methadone to hydro ratio should be back then.  Finally figured it out and dropped to 60 mgs in 4 weeks with now side effects at all.  And I was only using diphen. once in a while.  Then just kept lowering thr done -- no fun but got it down to 6 mgs.  Felt horrible for months at 6 mgs and made them up it to 20mg so I can function  and come up with a new plan.  Actually ahven't used any diphen for a couple weeks.  But I am in wd -- no doubt.  20mgs of 'done does nothing  -- just makes me functional for 2-3 hours.  I have a feeling that the high doses of 'done they had me on really screwed me up...  but I know that the equiv of 50 lomotil would make me functional for close to a day.  help!!

[emwave]

The Sub idea is to use it for only a month or so.  I've read enough horror sories here to know that using longer than that is just going to make me more addicted -- like the methadone did.

I need to change something now -- I'm not hapy that I went up to 20mgs of methadone (about 6 wks ago), but I needed a couple of hours a day to be able to function.  Sub doctor told me on the phone that I only have to go 48 hours without methadone before using Sub.  Does that sound right?

Am also looking into a 2 week (approx) detox in FL -- where they dose you every 4 hours and taper.  Have heard realy good things about it, but am waiting to hear how long I'd need to stay at 20mgs of methadone.  No one seems to know anything a diphen, as it is difficult to properly remove the atropine and only certain brands will work (at removing the atropine safely).  thx again all

[theeagle]

You must be able to hold your own in a chemistry lab.......Your situation is becoming way too common - - philosophy of many methadone clinics is to saturate the individual with methadone to extinguish their previous drug seeking behavior.....and then deal with the methadone addiction.  Most SubDocs want you at 30mg or less of methadone......and two days into withdrawal does sound right.......  I would advise a shorter term use of the sub, though.....

[emwave]

thx.  My lawyer wants me to sue the 'done clinic (yes, I was smart enough to get counselors with NO knowledge to copy my intake reports, etc. for me).  OF course, I'd never do anything like that -- but whenI'm clean they will have to change their ways -- or I will go after them.  They are a maintenence clinic, not a detox clinic as they advertise.

I have siblings and many friends who are MD and they are all horrified at the level of 'done I was put on.  But I wuld never drag any of them into the actual withdrawal -- it's just not right. They will all discuss options, but they care about me and dragging them into the real hell isn't fair to them.  So please don't suggest I use my MD family and friends for meds --- I'd never do it -- too much respect and love for these people.

I'm thankful for any info I can get -- I can't find any info on the diphen situation.  And yes, am good a chemistry.  Actually an electrical engineer, but started took classes for chem eng, also.  Lot's of chem phd's in the family, too.  

thank  you all for just being here

[emwave]

Btw, will sub take away the depression and dysphoria?  Maybe I could use it for a few days so I have enough strength to get to a regular "10 day detox" sort of thing (I know mine would probabaly be longer than 10 days, due to the 'done).  I'd really prefer to detox on short acting meds.  

thx

[theeagle]

Most people indicate that by the time they leave the Docs office for induction the depression is lifting and the dysphoria is turning into euphoria.  Sub is a strange pharmaceutical animal....sort of the "less is more" kind of thing. And that especially holds true at the lower doses.....And most addictionologists indicate that the longer acting narcs are the easier to taper from......the absence of as many peaks and valleys in serum levels seems to account for this.......

[gnarly_1]

Hi thanks for your post....I to suffer with methadone addiction ive been coming off 150mg
also been dooing it for 8&1/2 mo now im down to 2 mg as of this morning, its been a
grind to do ...20mg for me was shear he!! took 6 weeks to get past major withdrawals
but they do subside eventually its like you just get stuck at a certain dose sometimes
it happen to me at 60 ,30 20 and 10 and below 10 has been a ruff ride.....my body
bucks every time i go down,...usually last for 4or5 days then I sorta can handle
the withdrawals beter...but only to go down a mg and have to do it all over again
if your at 20mg methadone the withdrawals your feeling are probably comming
from the methadone just hang in there and let your body adjust ...then step down
1mg at a time...I was doing it every 3 to 4 days but now im going at 7days because
the withdrawal is alot more noticeable good luck to you and dont loose hope it will get better .....Gnarly  

[emwave]

i'm not looking to be high.  i know now that i made huge mistake going onto methadone.  the fact that iwas on 6mgs ffor months before i made them push me up saya it all -- i was at 6mgs for at least 3 months.  Was nice -- no sleep, worst wd i ever knew.  again, i blame myself for niot researching the 'done -- but i thought someone out there is supposed to do that!!.  So i pay the guy to give mwe a month's woth of sub, but only tale it for 2-3 days and go into inpatient detox.  Forming a plan here -- after what the methadone clinic did to me i am irritated and i don't trust any bup doc.

[emwave]

thx, btw -- wishi knew more than I do....  peace.

[emwave]

someone plz help -- anything -- a puzzle, whatever.  i really can't be alone

[Weney3777]

I just posted about my friend who was recently prescribed Suboxone. Maybe you have some advice for that?

[emwave]

god, i wish.  but i will check it out.  thnk for at leaswt replyint -- i brought up a subject that i should no have.

[worried878]

ur addiction is a concern..but in reality it was a mild narctoic..unlike imodium (immodium)...lomotil crosses the brain barrier so dependence is a possibility

going on methadone for a narcotic dose of that type...high dose but weak narcotic///is a bit extreme..did u try and quit ct or tapering first?  did u try any aftercare?

What is ur goal as far as switching to maintenence narcotics like sub and methadone?  is it wds u fear?  fear can paralyze u and u seem to be taking stronger narcotics to get off a weak narcotic in the spectrum of narcotics as far a strength goes

methadone at 20 mgs is not much..but it is not covering u cos u were at a much higher dose and tapering slowly off methadone/as is sub/is the only way to go

Chances r u will go to a sub dr and get put on a huge dose of sub/probably 2-3 x the amount u really need...and u will be right back where u r now

what is ur long term goal? u r actually getting urself in deeper doo doo trying to get thru this without wd?  or do u feel u need narcotic maintenence for life?  In the end all narcs are gonna have a wd...sub wds suk..so do methadone wd....w a goal and a plan is important...i know u feel bad tapering off methaodne/but the same thing is gonna happen when u taper off sub/which is really stronger than methadone/different but is really a powerhouse in comparison mg per mg...take a look at what u r doing..if ur goal is to get clean and free of maintenence natrcs..then perhaps stabilizing at this dose of methadone then tapering down slower..or even maybe raise ur dose by 5 mgs a day then taper very slowly...switching to sub at this point just does not seem feasible unless u ned sumpin long term....sub is not better/tho advertised as a super drug/than methadone....it is a strong narcotic that people get stuck on....think things thru...and be safe

[emwave]

I tried everything to get off of the diphen.  And it really isn't a mild opiate -- it's just given in such small doses and mixed with atropine (which will kill you if not removed properly) that no one thinks of it as being potent.  I don't know the exact eqivalent, but can tell you from experience that the amount I was taking was was enough to keep me high all day-   it was like taking 10-15 percs, maybe more, but staying high.  I believe the half-life is about 8 hours for diphen -- about 4x that of many strong opiates.   I think that the lon half-life is what makes the w/d so nasty.  I never took it with methadone when I was at a high dose, but once I dropped the methadone dose below 60, I'd use it once in a while.  I went all the way down to 6mgs of 'done, but after feeling horrible for months, I went back up to 20mgs to be able to "function" and decide what the heck I was going to do next.  So that is where I am at now.  It's been over a week (probably closer to 2) since I've had any diphen.  I'll never be able to get off of methadone as I really need to be dosed twice a day, even their doctor agreed with me.  So I thought maybe sub, for less than a month from what I read here.  What a mess I've gotten myself into....

[worried878]

But it is not a mess u can not get out of..stay positive...that is the only way to go   90% of this is upstairs...u can do this..,.u just gotta make a plan..keep us posted

[emwave]

I know I can get out of it -- not getting out of it isn't an option any longer.  Simply
put, I want my life back.  I don't trust the sub doctor because of what the
methadone clinic has done to me.  I don't know who to trust these days.  I now
know that the methadone clinic completely ignore the fact that I told them I was
there to detox, not for maintenance.  I also know that the fact that I had plenty of $$
made me a very attractive client.  
So I'm leaning towards going in-patient to get all shot acting drugs out of my system
and put a good dent in the 20mgs of methadone I take.  After that, I'm thinking
maybe sub for a few weeks??
I've also started the amino acid/ supplement protocol thinking that it can't hurt and will probably help out in a few weeks.  Has anyone tried that and do you have any advice?
I don't feel good at 20mgs of methadone, but refuse to go higher since I was down
a 6mgs for a few months (of course the clinic would love to have me on a higher
dose) and before that I was at 13mgs for at least 6 months.  Actually, after being at
20mgs for a week or so, I realized it wasn't going to make me functional.  So I
usually take about 50mgs and then don't take anything until I get more "take
homes".  I need to have a couple of days each week where I can get things done
and get some sleep.  
Thanks for being out there

[GottaQuit]

JUST came across your postings here today ... you reached out to me regarding my addiction to Fioricet w/Codeine a week ago.

Did you ever use MOTOFEN?  I used to be addicted to THAT until taken off the  market at which point I was switched to LOMOTIL or Difenoxylate and Atropine.

Motofen contained Difenoxin ... which has same properties as DEMEROL ... and Difenoxylate is similar, tho not quite as potent as Difenoxin.  Also I think Motofen had less ATROPINE per dose.

Used to get a huge rush and euphoria from it -- built up a tolerance to the Atropine but still dealt with it's nasty side affects if I took too much.  (Used to take up to 12 pills/day)

I keep checking with Valeant, the manufacturer of Motofen so see when it'll be back on the market -- they're currently saying December ... but with my current situation, I hope it NEVER comes back.

Believe it or not, I currently use Difenoxylate w/ Atropine FOR the ATROPINE side affects -- which in MY bizarre situation helps me.  I have a Parotid (salivary gland) tumor pressing on my Trigeminal Nerve causing unrelentless pain unresponsive to opiates!  So the Atropine helps slow down production of saliva, which in my case shrinks the gland where the tumor is enough to give me SOME relief --- CRAZY right??

Anyway, wanted to let you and everyone know that Difenoxylate DOES have same opiate characteristics of Demerol, thus it's potential for abuse.

Please keep posting here -- or pm me as to what is or isn't working for you.  I'm thinking of checking into Suboxone for all my addictions... Thoughts?