open forum

[Waking up]

This is the first time i can actually post a question, and i really don't have anything to ask pertaining to addiction, so i thought we could just have an open forum like further down. I do have  a question if anyone can help me. I went in for my monthly pain clinic appt. afterwards i went to fill my script and i got methadose instead of methadone. Is there any difference etween tha two or are they the same medicine?

[message of love]

Good morning!  You know what?  Call the pharmacist.  I've had a terrrible response in the past when I was given simply a higher dose of the medication I was supposed to get.  Also, I made a mistake last night and posted my first comments under a previous discussion that took place a while ago.  It's under "Addictions" or "Withdrawl" or something like that.  Also, I was wondering, IS there a doctor who EVER responds to this forum???  I thought the support of everyone was wonderful; I just was under the impression that this is also supposed to be a medically supported forum where we can get questions answered by doctors, too!!!

[Tessa]

sorry, don't know anything about your meds!!  but, my advise would be the same...to call the pharmacist--especially before you use it!!
As for the Dr that's supposed to be answering our questions, I believe someone said he won't be back....Something about not enough time or something??? Not sure, anyway, I find I get the best advise from fellow addicts. Nothing better!  The Dr.s response was always so vague....not of any benefit, to me anyway.

GWH----WHERE ARE YOU!!!!!!

[message of love]

Tessa, Thank you for the info about the DR..  As for help from fellow addicts, like I said before, I was SO impressed by the support I read from everyone to everyone and anyone.  I am NOT an addict at all.  Never tried a thing.  As I said in my original posting from last night(way down below under "Addictions"), I was looking for info to help my brother who is addicted to crack.  I learned a lot of helpful info, but also gained some tremendous insight into the struggles, desperation, and efforts you all are going through. I have my own types of addictions, burt none of them are related to drugs or alcohol or anything like that.  I do feel like I can understand some of your struggles through my own similar difficulties, although I don't go through withdrawl of any sort.  Will power and faith can be a toughy at times though, can't it?!  Still, I was so touched by all I read and REALLY hoped that I could contribute something back to each of you.  Would you please scroll WAY down the list of previous discussions and read my original post under "Addictions"?  Also, in case it helps any of you even for one time...I was told by a VERY good doctor one time to try playing Solitaire when my own problems reared their beautiful heads.  It takes focus, is a good distraction, and helps me get through my own struggles at times; not always, but sometimes. He had also suggested getting a soothing stone, aka a worry stone, to rub.  As he told me, he quit smoking cigarettes - another cheical dependency - by using one. He said he thought it was a ridiculous idea at first and thought he'd be rubbing the stone into dust in no time, but learned that the actual urge itself only lasted for a couple of minutes and that the rubbing acted a soothing technique until the urge passed.  He said that at first, he woud maybe get the urge a couple of times in maybe 10 minutes, but that it passed and in time the urge became less and less frequent.  Within a month, he didn't need the stone with him everywhere he went.  Don't know if this would be applicable to urges/withdrawls from drugs, but thought I'd suggest it.  I was concerned about the advice I read about tapering though.  I think of alcoholism, and I don't know how you can learn to kick it - or drug use - that way.  I'd think if someone is able to limit their intake, maybe that says more to do with their own power than it does about the drug.  That's not to negate ANYTHING about withdrawl, I just happen to think there's more to each of us than we are aware.  The power of choice DOES play a part in getting over this, too, i'm sure.  One of my favorite sayings ever is, "The same mind that turns on a coffee pot every morning also sent a man to the moon."  What do I choose to see in myself, and what do I choose to overlook?  Again, please read the posting down below.  I can't type, and my hands are about to fall off.  Otherwise, I'd retype it.  ;)

[CASEY]

My son will get his peak and trough results today or tomorrow for his methadone dose. Please tell me if the results are definitive or subject to opinion. Might the doctor arbitrarily underdose him? Should I be looking for specific numbers in the results? Should I ask for a second opinion if she holds him at 120mgs? Help! Gina

[Hinkster]

I got the same thing the last time I got my script  methadose.
The pharmasist said it was the exact same thing just a different brand. The pills a a little bigger and have a slit across the
back.
Tom

[Hinkster]

I got the same thing the last time I got my script  methadose.
The pharmasist said it was the exact same thing just a different brand. The pills a a little bigger and have a slit across the
back.
Tom

[mrmichael67]

They are the same thing.  They are made by an Australian company and are methadone.  Personally, I think that the one's made by Roxane Labs are stronger.

[mrmichael67]

I am not sure what the exact numbers would be, but if four hours pass by and the level of methadone is way down, then he is metabolizing it way too fast.  Ask them if they could give you a copy of the results.

[roro]

Anyone heard from Mrbari lately, just wondering how he was doing....  Mrbari if you are out there please let us know how you and your wife are.......

[OxyDout]

I think the "methadose" is much better, it seems to be more effective without giving me that tired dreary feeling.........

So how has everyone been, I haven't posted since last thursday, and I have been 150% sober, its now been 19 days!! and I'm still tired as all hell when I wake up in the morning, I started taking my fat burners again, I take 1 in the morning and 1 before I work out, they are made with Norephedrine so they don't get my heart racing but give me a tiny boost........ How is everyone else doing?  I keep getting delayed with picking up my car, but I did buy it!!!!!! I will pick it up tonight or tomorrow night.!! Groovy, how was your birthday?

GWH

[OxyDout]

Just to let everyone know, and I say this because WE, LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN "WE" can be deceiptful people.  I have truly been sober this entire time, with the exception of the first 4 days when I took 3mg a day of methadone............ I want to take the time to tell you all that THIS REALLY IS DOABLE, no joke, it is.  And to quote someone who I know offended a bunch of people but did help me out and was a good guy,...... " after the first couple of weeks, it will all seem like a bad dream" ..Dive    

He told me that and he was right, It feels like a really bad dream.  I'm now very organized, I have money, clean laundry and I SHOWER EVERYDAY!! I know that sounds weird but i would always wake up late and I could never shower before work.

The point is, take that step, you all can do this, I promise you, that includes you Groovy, I know you can do this if you want to. Keep up the good work

GWH

[CASEY]

Your comment about showering, having laundry and being organized is not crazy and very significant. Way to go! When my addict son reaches that point, the world will spin off it's axis. He is on 120mg of methadone for heroin addiction and still is not stabilized. Showering? Well, maybe next month. What is this no showering phenomena? bigger fish to fry? I quit nagging a while ago. Glad to know there is hope. Hang in there! Gina

[OxyDout]

I love that name, its my sisters name, my family is extremely italian, especially with names like Gina, Filippo (Filipp) and Riccardo (GWH)............ anyway, I have read your posts, and god bless you, I have never been addicted to Heroin, I could never do the needle thing, but then again, about 6 years ago I "couldn't do the drug thing" well look at that, I'm "doing the drug thing" I was up to 200mg of oxycontin a day and I dabbled with other drugs as well. I am now 19 days sober and am loving life.. The "shower phenomenon" kind of funny, but it happens because of withdrawal.  You wake up in the morning and your anxious and or worried about when you will get the next fix, but thats not why we don't shower, its how we feel. I would open my eyes and feel like I was burning in hell.  You have the sweats, your in so much pain, your SO WEAK, you can hardly keep your eyes open, let alone stand up, so all you want is your next fix.......... and if you absolutely have to get up then you will, but not any earlier then the time you need to get out the door, hence, you skip the shower.  Its the worst feeling in the world, but its a good reality check..........

Your doing a great job with your son, keep up the good work, and keep your head held high.  You will both make it out of this. Good luck and keep posting.

GWH

[alexandra_r]

Hi -- 15 days ago, I started tapering off a 30 mg (6 pills/5mg) vicodin prescribed by 1 doc after a serious back injury 14 months ago.  Originally, I was on the 7.5 mg, about 8 per day (as they were prescribed (2 every six hours).  I had her drop me to the regular instead of ES 6 months ago because I didn't really think that they were helping the actual pain that much since my tolerance was so high.  I have continued to have back pain, but it has improved with therapy and yoga and I wanted to stop the vicoding altogether.  So, 15 days ago, I started a slow taper--lowering 1/2 pill at a time and staying at that dose for a couple of days and then lowering again.  This has kept me from going crazy w/the heebie jeebies, but the last few days my back has been excruciating.  Will this pain level lower once I am free of the vicodin and get used to being off of it or am I going to have to deal with this pain w/nothing?  Or, of course, keep taking the vicodin.  I know I get an opiate "lift" from them, but I don't really like them that much.  Ten years ago, after heroin and methadone, I don't want to have Act 2 of the same destructive addictive scene I played before.  Has anyone dealt with terrible pain while withdrawing and managed to stay clean?  Did your pain get better?  What did you do to try to alleviate the pain.  p.s.  My disc is still herniated, but I thought it was much better than it feels right now.

[OxyDout]

I never had a back injury but boy did it feel awful during withdrawal, it was my back and thighs.......... Its definitely due to the withdrawal of the drugs. If your serious about stopping, please wait it out a week or so after your detox, things will get better, and if they don't then you should figure out what to do. but I do think the higher pain level is due to the withdrawal.  Keep on fighting.

GWH

[alexandra_r]

Thanks for your encouraging words.  My legs and head also hurt, but not like my back.  It is spasming also, which makes where the disc is injured hurt more.  However, I am going to hang on--I am even tempted to stop the taper because it is just slower w/d I think--perhaps it is best to just go off the low dose I am on now instead of prolonging the agony.

BTW--you are doing really great--I can tell you are loved on this forum and everyone (including me, although I just got here) are inspired to see you get off the coaster.  Keep on smiling-

Alex

[skipper]

alexandra:
your back pain may get beter once your off opiates...it may not.
you are in a wait and see situation. i am a rcovering 35 year
opiate abuser. after two surgerys on my cervical spine, the sur-
geon threw in the towel...no more cutting on kip, at least not
on his neck. well i'm left in intractable pain to wich end i'm
up to 155 mg oxy a day. 140mg is oxycontin. i don't wat to be on
oxy the rest of my life if i don't have to be, so i periodically
detox for 7-10 days. so far it looks like i'll be doing this for
the rest of my life....but i'm not ready to give up just yet. my
pain doc says i can move oer to methadone anytime i want. i don't
want to do this as i doubt i could detox from methadone with the
ease i do from oxy.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[OxyDout]

skipper you kill me, you have the strength of 10 men, god bless you.

Groovy how are you doing?

[AlexisInTx]

We do have many things in common.  I just read the other post (re: exercise) and you have the same type of back problems as I do.

I've been going through some pretty bad back pain (which had only exacerbated the withdrawal or vice versa) since I've stopped taking Norco as well, and I'm finding it hard to distinguish between where my real back pain starts and withdrawal begins, although it has improved a lot since the actual physical w/d symptoms are gone.  I am finding that with stretches, a heating pad and Yoga (like you) that it does help a lot.  I'm also looking into getting a Magnetic Back wrap, I'm wondering how those work (?)

I can totally understand what you're going through, it gets really hard to treat pain and deal with the addiction too.  We all respond so differently to what works during w/d's -- slow tapering worked well for me, but in retrospect, I think that cold turkey would have allowed me to not have the cravings that I have had lately (not so bad today, but all day yesterday was killer).

Anyhow, I hope you start feeling a little better -- keep up the Yoga, those exercises sure strengthen the back muscles.  Also, hot baths and heating pads seem to help quite a bit, along with Advil (works best for me as far as OTC pain relievers go).  Take care.

Alexis

[Cristi]

I have some info. about back pain and withdrawls that I hope can help you out. Just for reference I am a recovering hydrocodone addict. My M.D. told me that the hydro actually gets in to your bone marrow. My addictions counselor and info I have read have informed me that back pain is very common during withdrawls - even for someone who doesn't have a back condition. Also, remember that when you are taking opiates for a while your brain stops producing endorphines because the drug is supplying them. Endorphines are your body's natural pain killers and when we stop taking the drug there are none in us - thus the horrible pain. In a few weeks (varies for everyone) your brain will realize that it is going to have to start producing them again and that should alleviate a lot of the pain. That has been my experience anyway. I hope this helps. Hang in there! -Cristi

[alexandra_r]

I have never heard that hydro gets into your bone marrow--I have heard that this happens with methadone.  I think it's unlikely that hydro does, though, because it is a short-acting opiate with a short half life.  I heard the reason meth does is because it _is_ so long acting (with a long 1/2 life).  Thanks for the encouragement on the pain--I have been through w/d before and know the usual aches and pains (sometimes severe) that comes with the territory.  I am committed to at least trying to get off the pills so I can honestly assess how severe the pain is in my lower back and decide then what to do.  I have a burning pain in my lower back that is accompanied by pains shooting (electric) down my right leg.  I have experienced this before while doing the vikes for pain, but I really thought that the regimen I had been doing with physical therapy, home traction, yoga and would suffice with motrin for alleviating the pain.  I'm not so sure now, but I am down to only 2 vikes per day, cut in 1/2.  I am 39 y.o. and feel like I'm 80--crippled is how I feel.

[1fortheroad]

hi - i'm doing ok...you?  i won't be here much anymore - at least for the time being.  i just don't have the time right now or the energy...it's draining.  i think i need a break from it.  take care...i hope you are successful in your efforts.

[OxyDout]

I agree with all that you said, and will most likely fade away myself................. good luck to you.

" give today everything youve got, you will never have this moment again"

[mrmichael67]

Everything you eat gets into your bone marrow.  The methadone thing is a myth.  It gets into your bones no more than anything else would.  It was thought that it got into the bones because during withdrawal, the bones ache.  That is a common withdrawal symptom for all opiates.  Luckily, not everyone gets that symptom.  I do.  The only thing that should make people think twice about going on methadone is the length of withdrawal if one goes off of it.  Go to your favorite search engine and type in 'methadone myths' and see what you get.  From there you can read all about them.

[Hotstepper]

Quesion here since it is an open forum:

should an alcoholic be concerned with putting products on their skin that have alcohol in them? For instance shaving cream, scal medicine that has alcohol, or bug repellent. CAn the alcohol in these products induce withdrawal symtoms? Or is the amount too little to do this?

thank you

[mrmichael67]

Generally, an alcoholic should stay away from anything that has alcohol in them.  There should be other alternatives.  I would have to imagine that withdrawal wouldn't happen, but would the alcohol somehow trigger a relapse?

[tex3]

Alexandra, your post reminded me of something I'd forgotten. When I detoxed last time, I actually had godawful back pain. Lower back and middle. I would lay on my stomach to alleviate it, then have to flip. Felt like someone had hit me with a 2x4. As Michael said, I think it's at least partially the WD, as one symptom is deep bone pain. However, the detox "cocktail" I mentioned helped tremendously. I really preferred going cold to tapering (of course, I wasn't able to taper anyway) because I wanted it all out of my system as quick as possible. I bet it won't be too bad on you if you do quit, since you're down to such a low dose. Best of luck either way, and I hope you feel better.

Alexis, what part of the state do you live in? I just moved from Central to South.
tracy