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opiate equivalents
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opiate equivalents

Does anyone know how to compare diphenoxylate to hydrocodone?  How would 20 .025mg tabs (.5mg) of diphenoxylate compare to say, 5 mg of hydrocodone?  I was put on a high dose of the diphenoxylate, and seem to experience WD symptoms similiar to any other opiate when I just stopped.  Of course, I've been taking other opiates (prescription, but recreational) also, but I don't know how to factor in the diphenoxylate -- hence "tapering down" from a combination of opiates is difficult to figure out.  Thanks in advance.
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Correction

My error, the amount of diphenoxylate I'm asking about is 2.5mg tab -- 20 tabs being 50mg (I know you guys can multiply....).  So how would 50 mg of diphenoxylate compare with 5 mg of hydrocodone?  Thanks -- sorry for the error.
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Diphenoxylate is found in the RX drug Lomotil that is an antidiarria med. It is derived from narcotics, but it has no pain relieving qualitys or any addiction risks. That is all I know about it. So, it must not compare to hydro, and I would tapper with something else. I hope that helps a little.... Good luck!
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Actually, it is a narcotic (synthetic, I believe)-- and it can be addicting, but is low risk.  Thanks for answering -- I appreciate the "good luck" -- I need it!
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Not that is was really any of my business but I find pharmaceutical very intersting...(even though I can't spell it right)
I went to rxlist.com and they show diphenoxylate as a anti-diarrheal medication.
Pepsi4, I wondered if maybe you are in a different country than the USA and it is something else there...
There was someone from Canada and another from Australia and they have different names and different drugs....
My2cents(whatever it's worth)
Tammy
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thank you so much--your words of encouragement couldn't have come at a better time--My story such that it is--I have taking between 10-15 hydro 10 per day for approx 2 years--on Dec 16,2002
I had had enough--enough of the lies, the shame, the wondering where I would get my next rx-So on Dec 16,2002 I went cold turkey and with the help of this forum and the Thomas recipe i made 36 days!--Then it happened I got an Rx filled for 100 zydone plus I had access to some oxycodone--needless to say I have been off to the races for approx 4 weeks abusing whatever I could get my hands on!--I'm worried that the withdrawals will be worse than before (and they were pretty bad)--I do have a few Valium which I think my keep me from losing my mind--I dread the cold/chills/no sleeping for about a week and I think the depression will be worse--I know these thing are only temporary but I can't remember being this afraid--This forum is the only support I have--I have a wonderful husband that just doesn't understand this disease and guess what he's a physician! Just knowing you replied to my plea for help has allowed a sense of calm come over me--All of you are a Godsend--thank you so much!!
Prayers to everyone having to deal with this horrid disease.

thank you all--God Bless you
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Hi--According to my reference, A Certified Pharmacy Technician,Lomotil is  classified as Schedule V because of its potential for dependence or abuse.  Atropine is combined w/ diphenoxylate to discourage abuse of the narcotic agent.  So, I question the use of this drug to taper down.  IMHO. Peaz
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I am begging for everyone's help1--I relapsed after 36 beautiful clean days and now I'm facing another horrible withdrawal--for some reason my anxiety level is off the charts--I took my last hydro at 6:00 a.m.--I could just sit and cry my eyes out--I feel so ashamed and totally defeated-This forum got me through ladt time and I am hoping against hope that all the wonderful people here will offer some encouraging words--rex-Peaz-vicqueen-susie-and all the others I feel like a train wreck right now.
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I am on a relapse from 36 days clean also....I am taking 1-2 a day and have for the past almost week. Pain of IBS got the better of me...
How much were you taking and how long did you relapse and pardon my ignorance, I'm sure you said before but what meds are/were you taking???
I don't have much left and I really, really have no other way to get more so I will be doing what you are now very soon. I think, I am not taking very many but I may go into w/d again.
I have read over and over about how many people relapse and get right back to quiting and learn from the last time and soon one day it will truely be the last one. Don't be too hard on yourself. We are human, we are addicts.....
Did you run out, do you have more, do you have access to more, which demon are you fighting, the one of fear that you have NO MORE LEFT, the one that you have some left and feel guilty that you used and think you will continue to use...or is it the physical w/d that are getting you???
Talk to us, thats why we are here.....
You did good by coming back...alot of people are too embarassed or ashamed or whatever...we have all been there and some of us are still there(me)...
Peace to you...
Tammy
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NOL--- Try not to beat yourself up because you relapsed. That's really what recovery is made up of--relapses and successes, and we just hope in the end that we have more luck w/ the latter.  We are addicts and it will be a continual fight. But look at you!! You're here, posting, reaching out, and trying to help youself. You've got more guts and determination than you realize right now!!
    I liked Tammy's question about trying to find out which demon you're fighting at this moment...But hell--my guess is, it's all of them....Feeling guilty will drag you down so that you have nothing left to fight the rest of them.. So please PLEASE forgive yourself and jump back up in the saddle.  You WILL make it, but not if you give up. We're all here to help and I am so glad you posted today!! Stay in touch--don't close us out--and you'll get through this. Hang in there, babe!!  Love, Peaz
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yes, it is an anti-diarrheal -- but stil a narcotic (schedule IV).  It's just that I've taken a lot of them for a long time, in addition to other things.  I was wondering how they fit in to the whole equation.  Thanks for responding.
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First off a note to Phil and Cindy.  I'm posting for Suzneedshelp.  She did some changes in her computer and it lost her password she had saved so she could post on MedHelp.  She asked me if I would let you both know this and ask you if you could possibly email her and inform her what her password is. Her email address is: ***@**** She really wants to post in here but can only read until she can hear from one of you and receive her password again. She doesn't have an email address for either of you or she would have sent one asking for her password. Thank you both for helping her.

NEW ORLEANS LADY, Suz read your post and asked me to reply to you for her. Since she can only read in here at the moment and she saw you mention her name in your post, she asked me to pass on a request that you email her. Then she can talk to you that way until she can post in here again. Please use the email address I gave above to reach her. :)

I agree with the posts above this one N.O. LADY.  Please do NOT beat yourself up over this.  You can beat this I know.  I have read your past posts and have seen how strong you are. I know you are gonna be just fine.

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Dear Lady, I understand perfectly how frightened you are. I'm still impressed by the fact that you went cold turkey and stayed clean for 36 days. Don't let this relaspe take anything away from that. Although I've tapered drasically and generally holding it down to 4 pills a day, I've NEVER had enough courage to go totally cold turkey.  Knowing that you did it before will help you find the strength to do it again. I admire your willingness to come on the forum and share the details of your setback. It will comfort others who are going through the same thing.  Please keep posting and talking; there's so many great people here that can help you through this. You're not alone. Love, Lisabet
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I just wanted to let you know I did e-mail suzieneedshelp but I sort of a novice at this computer so I'm not sure she got it.  Thanks for your help!
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Put the past behind you immediately.  Focus on the success of your sobriety.  Dwelling in failure will bring you nothing but unhappiness.  True addicts are in for life. We must learn to put our successes and our failures into prospective. Focus on the totality of your life instead of the small part that is addiction. God alway brings blessings even in the midst of difficult challenges. Our gratitude for those blessings will bring us wisdom and happiness.
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Hey dear lady - how are you doing tonite?  Thinking about you - remember - you're stronger than you think!   (Remember----36 days?).....  You can do it again!  Hang in there, baby. Love, Lisabet
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thank you for your kind words of support--this is all just so exhausting--i think I really am leaning the meaning of surrender--I cannot fight this by myself--I do believe in a force greater than myself (higher power) but it seems when the cravings get do overwhelming my higher power abandons me--(i really don't beleive that but sometimes it seems that way)--I just feel like a train wreck right now and its nothing short of a miracle that i have managed to stay at work today--lovr and peace to all of the wonderful people on this forum--Hopefully I'll post my withdrawal progress--thanks again i don't know what I would do without this forum!
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gratitude is the purist wisdom

peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hippy
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you have been one of my hero's--your wisdom seems to put this crazy disease into perspective--right now i need all the help i can get and i really think tonight i need to have a talk with my higher power
thank s again hippi/bodymechnic/vicqueennomore/peaz/and everyone tha thas offered support--it means so much that there are so many people ready to help a stranger--peace and prayers
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encouragement is one of they very important things
we can offer each other ,and it is free.
A word of support, a kind response.
a complament goes a long way inhelping another.
Staying positive is so very important for us all.
i know a wealthy realtor friend who has has cancer for ten years
and he has expressed his understanding of the value of staying positive, and how it has kept him alive and also helped with
his pain, he said when he is negitive his pain is increaces
10 fold. While when he is positive his pain is minamil.
This coming from a man who lost his wife to the same rare
form of cancer that he suffers from.
He is a smart man he teaches realator courses at the local collage, and he know the importance of hypeing youself up
to make the sale and all that kind of og mandingo stuff.

peace!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hippy
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Yes, it is schedule V.  I don't want to use it to taper down.  It's just that I've been on high doses of it for a long time and experience wd symptoms when stopping completely.  This, coupled with other opiates that I've been using, is making stopping all opiates difficult.  I was wondering if anyone knew how strong or weak diphenoxylate is compared to hydrocodone.  For instance are 20 diphenoxylate tabs equal to 3 5mg hydrocodone tabs?  I see I've managed to confuse everyone -- I think I'll just cut down on everything at the same time -- thanks for answering and wish me luck!
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Hi--Just wondering how you're comin' along....Is your head in a better place and are you slowly getting your motivation back?  The beginning is always such a *****, but somehow you have to think beyound that, knowing it will get better.  And IT WILL.  I'd love to hear from you today, so I hope you see this. Tell me  what symptoms you're having and generally what you're dealing w/.  See you later !! Peaz
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Hi all, well after having like 3 weeks clean, I went to get my epideral and the doc gave me hydro with three refils...that had never happened before, I was sooo happy. I thought I could be conservative but no. I ran out three days shy of three weeks after getting them. Total 90 hydro 10's but I had paid hubby back like 14 of them. I called the pain clinic ( like an idiot) and asked for more, and they were real cold and nasty. I told them the epideral didnt work (which it didnt) and I was still in pain and out of meds. I had told the doc I was taking like 30 a week. He said thewre was nothing alarming about that. But when I called to get more they were appaulled. I dont get it, so then I made another appointment for monday, but I cancelled it because I feel better and I really dont want to be "taken care of  by a doctor that would treat me like that after acting like it wasnt that big of a deal. Anyway. I have not had anything for like a week. Been fine really no signs of withdrawl (withdrawal) except the crawling feeling and irritable and a little depressed. But now a week into it I am more desperate then ever. I am trying to figure out how to get some...thinking do I go to the ER..order some online ( dont trust ay websites to do that)...or try calling in my own script ( too scared for that). WHY is it always so much harder the farther I get away from my last? Thanks for listening. Lady..Hope your doing well...so were you getting scrips through hubby? It is a good thing my husband isnt a doctor!! LOL
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HI All,
    I am on methadone 120 mg. daily for chronic pain and was given a website to help me calculate opiate doses on other opiates.There is a great web site where you can do opiate calculations easily. The URL is : www.stat.washington.edu/TALARIA/calculatorjava.html
Hope this helps.
                         God Bless & Peace Out...Tim G
"Always walk with pride, but watch where you step"
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I have been out of town this past weekend and thats why I haven't been able to post--My only salvation was the fact that i got my hands on some fiorocet and it seemed to stay off full blown withdrawals over the weekend--although i still feel like dog doo doo--I know I'm only postponing the inevitable but I have an obligation to get to work this week and then with our "SUPER PARTY" Mardi Gras coming up I have scheduled 6 days off and I plan to go through the brunt of it then!  I've heard that fiorocet is a ***** to withdraw from although it really has done nothing for me but take the edge off--thank you all for asking about me and caring I can't tell you how much it means because one of the wortst parts of this is the fear of going through it alone!-all my love to everyone-prayers and with the grace of God I'll be drug free once again in the near future because to be quite honest I'm not sure how much more of this roller coaster ride I can stand. Thanks again--I've never known such wonderful caring people.  n.o. lady
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Although my husband is aware of my orthopedic problems-cervical fuson,arthritic hip ect, and is aware that I have been taking hydrocodone from a reputable orthopedic surgeon--he absolutely has no idea how much I take--and now this is where the shame part comes in--He keeps samples of all types of medicine in his study and when I saw this withdrawal situaton come up I decided to pilfer a few without his knowledge--more guilt more shame that I'll eventually have to face--I'm so miserable right now I could scream! Thank God for this forum and people that understand
love and peace--N.O. lady
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Dear N.O. lady~ I really really feel for you. I just went thru Ativan withdrawl (withdrawal) as of today it was going on day 4 & i thought I was going to die. I WANTED to die. It was Ativan & opiate withdrawl (withdrawal). I'm sure most of us are too familiar with the symptoms. My heart goes out to you. Luckily my friend who is a nurse (one who has no patience or tolerance for addicts of any kind) smooth talked my MHMR people to call in to approve my Ativan script since all they would tell me is"Im sorry but we cant get you in for an appt until mid March!!!" I kept telling them what bad shape I was in & they'd tell me to leave a voice mail with the nurse & they never called me back!! I felt so abandoned & tortured! I mean THEY are the ones that put me on the meds in the first place & they KNOW the withdrawl (withdrawal) risks but dont seem to give a damn!! It's such a horrid feeling-to be sufferring THAT much & no one will even lift a finger to help! Anyway-I got the Ativan & thank you GODDESS & friend I'm steady again-no more 24hr nausea, body aches & spasms & feeling like you're being under attack by demons-to say the least!! AND then an acquaintance calls to see if I still need some meds for my pain! Of course I jumped on it! I was also VERY shocked to hear my nurse friend say,"Ya know-if I were in your shoes-I'd ask a doc to put me on Methadone-since you seem to crave opiates & valium type drugs & STAY on it for life!!" It was comforting to know he himself would take that necessary action & obviously wouldnt lose respect for me if I did it. I have a 3 yr old daughter to raise & Im thinking if methadone is what it takes to stop this "Where can I get my next Rx -and actually praying for a toothache or injury so I will have a reason for the meds -other than my chronic back pain (which doctor's are so leary of when the xrays show nothing) then that's what I may have to do to raise my child & stop wishing for death! Anyway- If you like
I have a chronic pain forum I joined & if you want to email me-***@****. I can tell you more about it & give you some information you might want as far as SAFE pharmacies available on the web.  Many blessings of inner peace to you & everyone-Cheshe
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I have just started Revia after throwing in the towel by trying to do it myself, on will power alone.  

I believe it to be the silliest and stupidest thing to NOT do after an Ultra Rapid Opiate Detox.  Only now, since I started Revia TODAY, have I learned what it in fact is and the chemical effects and counter-effects on the brain after long-term opiate use.  I underwent Ultra Rapid Opiate Detox on 4/20/02, but began to struggle with relapse approximately 6-7 months later.  Prior to detox, I was at approximately 600 mg/day of Oxycontin, prescribed by my Doctor and paid for by Workers Compensation Insurance.  My spine had some minor injuries that were horrifically magnified because I began to self-administer Opium by smoking it to reduce my pain levels.  At the age of 25, my ignorance prevented me from seeing the slippery slope I had just embarked on, and the cost was not an obstacle. (Ironically, the cost was not a problem because I had been working so hard, which is why my spine was injured...The Irony of Life)

The chemical manipulation ones brain undergoes while under heavy opiate use is quite significant.  For Revia to be able to rapidly return the brain to its original "pre-addicted" stage is VERY important for the individual that has no physical craving for the drug at all to KNOW.  In this case, it is purely physiological.  

To throw the term "psychological" around without really thinking about the manipulation ones brain undergoes after being administered 400-600 mg/day of Oxycontin as a substitute for the self-administer of Opiate analgesia resulting from trauma to the spine, creates a sense of naivety about the treatment course and education required for those that are physically dependant due to injury, and not psychologically dependant due to drug abuse.  There is an important distinction to make, if only because the former may believe himself to have a strong will and believes, ignorantly, that they can prevent a relapse on their own.  

Until the chemistry in the brain is changed back to the way it was, the physically dependant will struggle with possible relapse as does the psychological addict, but they are not one and the same in structure, but surely both are just as important.  Unfortunately, the psychological addict will have a longer struggle.  

But it is the duty of the medical profession to make this distinction and educate their patients when appropriate, for this tiny bit of logical education about the effects naltrexone has on reducing the number of opiate receptors in the brain, can be the difference between life and death for many.

I Thank God for granting me the wisdom to see the ignorance in my ways, and allowing me to return to my true path in life.  Not just once, but whenever I have asked.  


PH
28

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I had never seen a forum like this before until tonight. I was browsing the internet to educate myself about the hydrocodone withdrawal I am enduring over and over (after the need for several surgeries over the last few years, I have been in an ongoing battle.) It's good to hear that Ativan is very addictive as well because another doctor prescribed me that for my insomnia, which he didn't know was due to my on again off again hydrocodone use...so i will make sure to stay away from the Ativan, I have about 50 left.) I read through every single one of your writings and it is powerfully comforting to hear such honesty. Until tonight I have been living in a lonely nightmare. Everyones stories and symptoms are exactly what I've been enduring. In my experience, becoming a temporary alchoholic on and off is my reaction to withdrawal. I'd force myself to quit the pills and then use a paced "self prescribed dose" of alchohol...moreso at night...just to sleep and cut through all the nasty bone aches irritability chills sleeplessness etc. This ofcourse is tough when you're on a 9 to 5 schedule, but a six pack of beer before bed, one upon arising...or a beer every couple hours... or a paced bottle of wine or two per 24 hours seemed the only way I could tolerate the first several days of withdrawal...its so sad trying to do normal things with other family members when they have no idea how much your body is hurting inside..like your chest and guts are crawling with bugs...mentally, physically and emotionally the living dead. I'm terrified because i'm about to get another surgery which requires more pain meds. My body is too tolerant/used to them so they won't cut through the pain as well anymore, my doc is really conservative with me at this point on how many pills he gives me...and after the severe pain of the surgery, I'm going to withdraw ugly AGAIN from pain meds. And drinking heavily a couple weeks after surgery is a really really bad idea. My poor body. I could just cry. I'm scared. And I have a 4 year old to be a good mommy for. The one thing going for me, the Godsend... is that over Christmas when we were having to make all these relative appearances, I finally did breakdown and cry as I admitted what is going on to my husband (who is vehemently against drugs and addicts.) I thought he would be disgusted. Maybe he is, but he loves me enough to have taken the calm understanding approach. He said it is our secret, and he will help. He will take more parenting responsibility while I have to withdraw again. He finally understands now why I suddenly started boozing it randomly on and off. I feel relieved that he is on my side. It gives me some more hope. Thankyou so much for listening and for sharing!
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