My father is nearing 78 and had knee replacement suregery three months ago. Prior to the surgery, he was taking hydrocodone for about a year...four or five a week at start and as many as four or five a day right before his surgery to relieve knee pain. Post operative, they placed him on 20mg oxycontin twice daily (w/ Darvon for breakthrough pain).
Sixteen days post operative he began to feel sick...
nausea, trembling, depression, palpitations of heart, sleeplessness. He was miserable but still took his meds as directed. On learning of his sickness, his General told him to discontinue oxy (cold) and use the Darvon for pain. He remained sick and, because his knee was still in pain, his general kept switching pain meds to try and find one that would ease knee pain but wouldn't make him sick. Finally, seven weeks after surgery, my dad decided to stop taking everything and see if his sickness would get better.
Six weeks after that, my dad is constantly ill...nausea, trembling, heart racing, and sleeplessness. He hasn't had a pain med in six weeks! Everyone he sees tells him (obviously) that it couldn't be withdrawal cause everything's been out of his system so long. But why is he sick with symptoms that so closely resemble withdrawal?
At this point, we're thinking all the drugs combined with his age, etc, have blown some sort of fuse in his neurological system. Is this possible?
Has anyone heard of a situation like this before? We're looking for some clues to get him out of his misery...he's at his wit's end.
Sorry for the long post! Thanks!
13th June off everything because he was
get off all the drugs.
Six weeks of the same symptons
I've had similar problems days after going off of pain meds(usually oxycodone). Suddenly, I'll go into severe trembling, nausea, headache and racing pulse. It's scary, especially after being clean for ten or more days. I'd like to know why this happens, too. Dr. Steve seems to think it's anxiety related. All I know is that the only way I can get it to stop is by taking a dose of oxycodone or hydrocodone. Doing this is better than having a heart attack or stroke. Hopefully, someone here can educate us on this phenomenon. J.B.
Besides "acute withdrawal syndrome" there is "post acute withdrawal" or "abstinance syndrome", which can last for a LONG time. Usually it goes away within a month or two, but it can last up to a year or more, especially if you've had the metabolic disorder of opioid addiction (or "dependence" if you prefer). Generally it lasts longer the longer you've been "dependant" on opioid pain meds, and depending on which med you're using - methadone is longer acting, so it has a longer abstinance syndrome. I have a lot of sympathy for anyone suffering in that way, because it's the most hideous kind of misery imaginable. I've been an addict most of my life and have suffered from withdrawal syndrome many times. I was doing well on methadone for many years, but my doctor recently switched me to oxycontin after he was threatened for prescribing methadone since he isn't a pain specialist. After only a few days on oxycontin I'm already feeling horrible, so I'm getting back on methadone ASAP even if I have to go to a methadone clinic again (I'm hoping the pain treatment clinic will prescribe it for me). Everybody is different, and it could be that your father is very sensitive to opioids, and that even a relatively short-term use of opioids has triggered the metabolic disorder of addiction in him. Methadone would make him well again if there is a way for him to get it. I know this is a forum for pain patients, but addiction is so closely related that I think it's very illogical to seperate it from pain treatment. Addiction is a metabolic disorder, and society should stop looking at it as a character flaw which requires addicts be treated like they are "junkies" who can't EVER be trusted. Methadone is a wonderful drug, but they make it so darn hard to get. Methadone is very inexpensive and oxycontin is VERY expensive, and I believe that has a lot to do with why oxycontin is so easily available while methadone is the hardest drug of all to get. I'm furious that my doctor had to switch me from methdone to oxycontin, because now I'm becoming very ill. In my opinion, oxycontin is NOT a good chronic pain medication for most people - methadone is the opioid that should be used for treating long-term chronic pain patients. I'm not a doctor, but I have a lifetime of experience (I'm 45) and have become very knowledgable. I know that oxycontin is working well for some people, and those people should be able to continue using it if it works for them, but most people are better off on methadone. I hope that this whole oxycontin disaster will cause the "authorities" to realise methadone needs to be made available from regular doctors for treating pain and addiction. I wish your father luck, and my advice is to get him on methadone.
Cannibis Dave seems to know more about withdrawal syndromes than I do, but in my thirty years of hydrocodone experience, withdrawal ALWAYS set in at the latest the day after running out. Most opioids, except for the time-release stuff and exceptionally long-half life drugs like methadone, are metabolized and out of your system in four or five hours. It's not that I'm surprized at your dad having some kind of delayed abstinence syndrome, I'm just surprised and skeptical about him not suffering narcotic withdrawal directly after he stopped. I have never heard of that one! I hope your dad feels better soon. Wish I had the answer for him.
I know this is probably an unpopular comment but I don't see the point in suing Purdue Pharma for making oxycontin. We can't blame a pharmaceutical company for our addiction. Pain medication has had a profound impact on the medical community. People with chronic pain can now live a more productive life with oxycontin. Purdue Pharma gives seminars on drug addiction and proper prescribing procedures. There is a definate need for oxycontin in this world. Why blame Purdu Pharma? The doctors are the one's who monitor and prescribe the medication. Why don't we go after the doctors who prescribe Oxy like crazy. They are the dangerous ones. I'm not going to blame anyone but myself for my addiction. No one forced the pills into my mouth. If we start suing pharmaceutical companys for making addictive medication then we should start suing Mcdonald's for making fattening foods. Eating fatty foods can lead to a heartattach, diabetes, obesity, etc. If someone has a heart attach should they sue restraunts they they were visiting that lead them to their poor health. NO! Take responsibility. Oxy is a controlled II substance. There is strict monitoring that goes along with getting these pills. From what a doctor told me, if you go doctor shopping to get scripts you will eventually get caught. Either by the doctors, the pharmasist, or the insurance company. I'm sure handfulls of people have horror stories about getting caught at the pharmacy for getting several different scripts filled. My dad is a doctor and one day he got a call from the pharmacist telling him that this was the third time this patient has been in filling a narcotic prescription from three different doctors. My dad told the pharmacist to void the prescription and he told the pharmacist to tell the patient he could come back and see him to talk about it. My dad interested in helping this man...but of course he never saw him again. Drug-seekers are smart, no doubt about it, I knew to go to different pharmacies. I know some supermarkets systems are hooked up so you can go to different locations. I know epic and neighborcare computers are not hooked up so there is no way for them to tell if you went to the pharmacy down the street. I know not to go to CVS or RiteAid because they can what other CVS or RiteAids you have been to.
I am an addict. I hold no one responsible for it but myself. I don't blame my parents for giving me the genes for addiction (even though they are not addicts but there is a history of addiction further down my family). I don't blame my work for stressing me out and then me wanting to take the percocets. If we stop pointing fingers we can accept the disease and treat it. I talked to doctors that are afraid to prescribe narcotics because they are aftaid of getting in trouble by the DEA. Patients have been kown to sue doctors because they got addicted to pain medicine. This is where it gets tricky, if a doctor does not prescribe adequate enough pain medicine to someone who legitametly needs the pills they risk being sued for not caring for the patient. There has been numerous studies that report that patients who are in extreme pain and require narcotics don't end up getting hooked when they are feeling better.
Thank you Tyler, I really agree with your perspective on this. I tried to say what you said, but you said it so eloquently!
I am both a chronic pain patient, and an addict. I am working my butt off trying to find how to be in recovery, ie, how to take the meds that I need to treat my pain without abusing the meds to get high. It is very, very hard! But, regardless, I am grateful that the meds for pain exist, and I don't blame anyone but myself for how I handled the meds.
The last thing that I'd want to see is a med as helpful as oxycontin get taken off the market because people like me with addcitions abused it. Instead, I'd rather see the money that would be spent on the lawsuit spent on increasing funding for the treatment and prevention of addiction.
I am truly sorry to interrupt this thread but obviously it's not to easy to start a new one.
I read an article today in the Philadelphia daily news today about a group of people in Kentucky sueing Perdue Pharma. The lawsuit was over the fact that Perdue failed to properly inform the public over the fact that even if Oxycontin is taken properly you will become addicted. The article goes further in depth than I am willing to type but you get the general idea. I was considering contacting an attorney to see if I could possibly enter in a case. You never know? Hey, maybee we could all get togther and sue the hell out of theese bastards for getting us hooked on their product. After all, think about it. What if you woke up in the morning and threw your guts up if you didn't use a certain kind of toothpaste. Isn't it basicly the same idea? I would be interested in your oponion's........CHad
We had that other national story in our local paper yesterday too. It says that doctors wrote 6.9 MILLION prescriptions for oxycontin from May 2000 to May 2001, producing $1.27 BILLION dollars sales. Oxycontin accounted for 83% of Purdue's sales this year - that IS a bit outrageous, and it makes them look like "pushers". I don't mind severe pain patients having it, but to promote it the way they did was VERY irresponsible, and now we are seeing the result in this epidemic of addiction. All they did was take pure oxycodone and put a thin coating around it so it absorbs slowly, and now they are making a fortune by charging so much for it. OF COURSE it ended up being abused by addicts - that was something anyone should have seen coming. I do hope this disaster will help methadone become more available. I'm looking forward to getting back on methadone again, because I can't think or sleep very well on oxycontin/oxycodone, and I'm very weak. I was getting by on just two 10mg. methadone tablets a day before, and now I'm already taking 4 20mg. oxycontin tablets after - I'm terrified of running out of medication. Oxycontin just doesn't work as well for chronic pain for me, and it seems to have worse negative side-effects than methadone. It seems to make more sense to use methadone for chronic pain, and use oxycodone or hydromorphone (my preferance) for breakthrough medication.
Well..I'll give my two cents here...
Isn't it pretty widely known that any opiate based drug taken over a certain amount of time is physically addicting? I am wary of suing a drug company for making an addicting medication that is so helpful to chronic pain patients who truly need it and benefit from it.
Oxycontin was a wonderful medication for me. It stopped my back pain after my surgery beautifully, and because it was long acting, it did not produce the euphoria that the vicoprofen did, so I did not try to chase a high with it. My Doc switiched me back to vicoprofen after the most acute phase of my pain was over, and I am sorry that he did..because I am FAR more likely to abuse vicoprofen than the oxycontin, since it gets me high, and the oxy never did. Granted, I did not know that people chew and crush the oxy's to get high.. and I'm glad I didn't know that! lol
I worry that law suits of the makers of oxycontin will endager the availability of this medication to those who truly need it.
I, too, am fearful that lawsuits like this may do harm to our ability to get the pain relief we need. However, my doctor told me that if even the worst happened with oxycontin that there were alternatives. He named the duragesic patch, methadone, and some other stuff.
The worst thing about the oxy seems to be that I'm so damn tired all the time. I will be sitting at my desk at work and fall asleep. I've done that in meetings, too.
As for the duragesic, I'm wondering how they titrate it so that you don't have the severe depression after being on oxy for so long? Anyone have any insight on that?
I have to add my two cents worth in here. I think people especially [addicts in denial] will love to use any excuse to make money to support their habit and even get credit for it.
Meanwhile, those that really need pain relief suffer and other less effective pain relievers will then be put under scruteny as well and all of us chronic pain people will suffer for those greedy addicts who will always look for that free dollar or high without working for it.
I went off the Codeine because I was taking it too much and for the high effect. My doc refused Oxycontin because of the stink being made. I am allergic to acetimetiphen so I am limited on most of the stronger opiods. So he is trying me on Demerol of all things. I thought that was only for post surgery. So far it has worked better than the Codiene and does not produce a euphoric or high which is why I kept abusing the Codiene. The only bad thing is the demerol takes over an hour or two to take effective pain relief so I still have to take two Ultram with it for faster relief. Sometimes two Demerol will work a little better.
[Thomas] I have never asked you anything before because I read all the posts but what do you think about Demerol for chronic pain control?
I took alot of Ultram while off the Codiene so it really did't solve anything. I hit the pavement [shakedown/breakdown] after doing my yard work this past weekend and was glad I had that strong Demerol because after the 20-30 minute shaker I was in severe pain. I was already in pain from the work due to the Lupus but I pushed myself as my doc warned me not to, much to my own demise.
Oh well, Another day in paradise, at least I have my job and my little house in my garden of Guahan with my cats and dogs. That's all that matters.
I have seizures every four days or so anyway so I was due, although I wasn't expecting this one to be so long and painful, more so than usual.
I am really babbling and had better stop. I just wanted to say hi to everyone, too many to mention all.
I was wondering...since we all agree that for chronic pain Oxycontin is a great drug. Why can't the pharmaceutical company turn the pill into a patch? You can't crush up and chew on a patch (at least I'm pretty sure). I know there is a Fentanyl patch like people were talking about but from what I understand a lot of patients can't tolerate the side effects. I think they use fentanyl with anasthesia when someone goes into surgery. I have never had surgery so I'm not sure...just what I heard. I heard of this surgeon in Maryland (where I live) was taking the Fentanyl for himself and not administering it to the patient when they had surgery. From what I understand the patient would look knocked out but could feel every incision and cut being made (I think he was taking more than just the fentanyl). Needless to say the surgeon is in alot of trouble. Has anyone else heard about the story? I'm not sure if it has been made public yet.
Anyway, does anyone know if they can turn the oxycontin pill into a patch? I wan't sure if the molecular structure would allow it to be a transdermal patch. Oh well...just a thought.
Just me, with my latest update... Saw my hubby today, and does he ever look great!!!! He's nice and tan and healthy looking, and he looks rested, and most of all, at peace with himself. He tells me that he is very happy, and content with himself. What a change from the talk of suicide just 1-month ago. I am so happy that he was finally able to get the help he so very much deserved and needed. He says he had forgotten how it felt to be 'alive', and how wonderful it is...
I fessed up to him today when he asked again, how i was doing. I answered with "scared and nervous". He told me that he would help me when he got back, devote the first weekend to helping me clean up. I will try to do as much as i can before he comes home, but i need help... i can't do this while working and taking care of three children, alone. They are so very very demanding. My 8-year old must have asked me 1,000 questions this weekend alone, and my 5-year old gets so frusterated so easily, it's not funny! When i'm in withdrawal, i have no patiene, and just can't handle the world. I need some support and some help through this, i can't do it like this. I cried tonight, and feel like i am so unhealthy in every way imaginable. My mind, my spirit, body and soul! Most of all, i feel i'm a failure to myself, to my husband, my kids, and to all of your guys! You all have given me such wonderful support, i can't tell you how much it has touched my sick heart!!!
I was at K-mart to pick up a few things for my husband, and a couple things for the kids today. The line was backed up, i had to get to west palm to visit my husband mby 1:30, my 1 year old was grabbing at everything within her reach while on line (why the hell do they have to put so much 'stuff' in those dam checkout lanes for kids to grap. Then she went for my face and my hair, just grabbing and grabbing and pulling. She grabbed an item, and i grabbed it from her and threw it! I had a tandrum, a full blown immature tamtrum!!!! I finally got up to the register, and told the girl that i'm sure she didn't want to be there anymore than i did, and she went on to tell me how she was sick with a horrible cold, and was just about to call in, but they needed her too much today, and she had a 10-hour shift to work. I told her how bad i felt for her, and hoped she felt better... i was so embarrassed and ashamed at my lack of control. The kids have been so much on me lately, i'm just having a hard time handling all this myself.
When i saw my husband, he was looking so healthy and happier right down to his spirit, something i haven't seen in so long. I am so happy for him, and am so proud of him. I feel like i'm not worthy of him anymore, like a reject!!! My self-esteem in down in the dirt right now (major pity-party, i apologize).
I'm just so sad right now, and feel like the fight just isn't in me anymore. He insists he will be able to help me, but i am so afraid of how he will feel once he gets home, last time around was horrible. He says he knows more now, and will be able to handle it. I trust him, but it's hard, especially knowing that my sick self will be home waiting for him. There won't be any drugs are alcohol here, so no temptations waiting for him, i don't what to blow his recovery. I only wish that i was as well as he is! He just looks so good, and i just look like ****!!!
I spent all weekend school shopping for the kids so that they can look there best for their new school year. Spent money i shouldn't have, but they are gonna looking dam good returning to school this year... It was very important to my daughter, the cloths thing is such a big deal to an 8-year old girl. We found some fantastic sales, so we really made out! Now all they need is a healthy mommy, and their world will be full!
Why can't i give that to them, why can't i give that to myself!!! Anyone who i ever see that gets started in this **** will get a hugh warning from me, you can be sure of that!!!
I want to do the cold turkey thing, i will start with a taper, and once my husband returns, they are history, and i will just lay in bed all weekend if i have to, and grin and bear the pain knowing that it is only temporary, and it is for a very very good reason, to get my life back!!! I will look at it like i have the flu, and be totally selfish (not like me), and just think about ME, and what i have to do for ME!!!
I see that my husband truly loves himself again, and knows what he must do for himself to bring happiness!!! He was too sick to realize what was even going on for the longest time, just getting deeper and deeper into self-destruction, and totally forgetting about what he wanted and needed to be happy. He may appear selfish, but that's what he needs to do, the family will follow after he makes himself happy, it will pay off in the long run, i really think he has the right idea. I know i will loose him if i don't straighten up, i can see he won't tolerate it! What a switch this all is, who would have ever imagined it would have turned around like this... but this is a good thing, and is just the kind of wake up that i need! I need to understand that everything and anything that was ever important to me will be gone if i don't straighten out. I want to seek some help, i feel like i can't do this alone, i need the tools and the knowledge. I'm lost in a world of my own right now, and all my doors are shut, not letting anyone in. I need to open up and allow others to help me, i know i can't do this alone, it just doesn't work, i'm not strong enough!
Pray for me!!! I can't give much more to anyone right now, i'm too lost to even offer much advice. Know that you all are in my throught, prayers and especially my heart. What you all have done for me over the past couple months is absoluately beyond words!!! I thank you all, and i will keep you upated!
To Francois and tylerburen. I have been on the duragesic patch for over 5 months now. I used to take oxy's, dilauded, percocets. My former boyfriend is an addict and would steal just about everything I had. I chose to go off all oral meds. I never had any withdrawals from the oxy's. I took as perscribed, swallowed not chewed. My pain Dr. started me on 25mg patch. For about the first 5 days I still had alot of pain, on or about the 5th mornging I woke, and hardly had any pain. It used to take me 1 20mg of oxy, and 2 vicoprohens, wait about 2 hours before I could get up and function. Now I change it every 2 days, still the 25mg dose. If I wait for the 3rd day, the pain starts coming back. I have a script for 150 vicoprohens a month. I'm allowed 5 aday. I rarely take more than 5 a week now. I never got high off pain meds, so I don't know if this is why I'm able not to take too much. I stronly recommend that any one with chronic pain try the patch. The only side effect I had was some nausea the first 2 days. I haven't, no kidding, even had a headache. This is the lowest dose, it's considered a starter dose. But for me it still works, I can increase if need be.
Jenny, I am so sorry I haven't called you. I have so much going on....like you. I will try Monday before I go to Al-anon. My ex has been cut off of methadone, the dr. got a nasty letter from the insurance co. Since he's only a family dr. and it's been over 6 months, they will not approve it. Also he can't perscribe oxycontin anymore to him because of the new law, and since my ex has no chronic pain, and the dr. knows he's an addict....oh well. The nurse told me the other day. She said he must be getting his drugs somewhere else since he's not getting them there anymore, and they haven't heard from him. I haven't talked with him for about 5 days. He didn't call and bring me the money he said he would. Somethings up, probably the withdrawals are bad, or maybe now it's heroin. I knew there was a reason he was calling. But he knows I've moved on and am dating a wonderful man. A man who doesn't drink, or take drugs, nice and average. No offense to anyone else. My ex was just so abusive, lied, and called me and my kids every name in the book. I promise to call you. If you need me to come to Fla. I will.....Love Susan
Wow! Sounds like you got alot going on right now. I'm glad to hear that your husband is doing well. I know you were excited that he was getting help. Now its your turn. I can only imagine trying to straighten up while caring for young children. My godchild (7mos. old) and cousin (2 yrs. old) came over for three hours the other day and I thought I was going out of my mind...I can only imagine taking care of them 24/7 like you do. I know it must be tough for you. I thank God that I am only 23 with very few responsibilities. I hope you can get the strength to get through this. Remember you are never alone!
I know you are thinking about quitting cold turkey. I can understand that, but talk to your doctor about a drug called Clonodine. It is not a narcotic and is not addictive. It is a hypersensativity drug that treats high blood pressure and will also take the edge off the withdrawl. It gets rid of that skin crawling feeling. also it will help you feel comfortable during your withdrawl period. It won't help with the naseua. For the naseua I would recomend a drug called Vistiril (generic: Hydroxyzine PAM). Vistiril is an antihystamine that is used to treat anxiety and allergic reactions. It also settles the stomach and will help a lot with the naseua. The vistaril will relax you and help you sleep. If you try to quit cold turkey you might get too tempted to use again just so you can stop feeling so crappy. Good luck with quitting. Tomorrow is the day for me. I am so nervous!!! I will be takin Darvocet in place of the percocet. I only will be taking this for three days and then after that I will use the clonodine and vistaril.
I've been wanting to do this for a while. My problem with the percocet is that it make me very hungry so I eat alot. I have gained like 40 pounds since taking the drug. This is unusual since most people report losing weight and getting very thin. Last summer when I wasn't using I weighed 220 with about 7% body fat. I was lifting alot and I looked and felt great. I want to get back to that body. I use to be an athlete and now I just sit around and get high. I'm tired of being lazy. I think I'm going to take up ju jitsu and boxing to occupy my time. I noticed before when I quit i usually went back to it because I was bored and/or stressed out. I believe that if you occupy your time with things you like you will be less likely to go back. I believe you can quit. Do not lose hope. Let me share with you a qoute that may help you during your time of need:
"A man who wants to do something will find a way; a man who doesn't will find an excuse."
-Stephen Dolley, Jr.
I hope what I said helps you. Only you can decide that you are sick of being a prisoner to drugs. Once you break free you might find a worl out there you never knew existed...at least thats what I am hoping to find!
Thank you so much for your kind words, i know you can do this, i just feel it in your words!
My husband has an old script for klonodin, so maybe i'll take some. I have a bunch of valium, xanax and stuff like that, so sleeping shouldn't be a problem, i hope. I promise not to get addicted to those too, i absoluately won't. I only have a script of each, with no more available, so enough to get through this mess!
Sounds like you have the right attitude and i wish you a world full of luck!!!!
GO FOR IT, NO TIME LIKE THE PRESENT TO TRY!!!!
You're in my prayers and in my heart (sick place to be right now, lol, but you're in in -- poor thing! lol!)
Seriously, good luck!!!!
BTW, you're so very young, and you have the world out there yet to give you so much!!!!! It will be worth it!
Susan, sweet susan, always thinking of others!!!
Thank you sweetie, you're amazing, you'd come all the way to Florida if i needed you, you're such a sweetheart!!!!
I'm very happy that you found a 'good' man, one that you so very much deserve!
Be careful though, i feel the presents of your ex still very much in your heart, so whatever you do, don't ever let him dig his way back into it, you have some wounds still exposed, and you are still vulnerable, so just in knowing that, half the battle is won!
I'm sure he is very sick now, and herion is a strong possibility, making him even more dangerous!!! Don't accept any money from him, phone calls, NOTHING!!! He will only use excuses in order to make is way back in, trust me!!!!
Call me anytime, i'd love to talk to you!
Boy, this is dumb. No doubt, a lawyer saw an "in" here and got some people to jump on board. ANYONE and I mean ANYONE who puts a drug into their mouths without knowing what and how it works is an idiot. Whether it's Flintstones vitamins or Dilaudid. This is just another case of lazy ass Americans saying "I can't take care of myself and/or be responsible for the medications I'm taking - it's up to the government to make the decisions and look out for me." Pathetic. Many of the same people who feel this way vote Republican and crave "smaller government" - yet they promote big government by being stupid and irresponsible. (sorry, had to get that in there!:) It's the above situation taking place and also the almighty dollar - "Hey, maybe after chewing Oxycontins up for 2 years knowing full well they're addicting - I can make some money on a lawsuit! I'm gettin' me sum Money boy!" If this case goes over - i.e. the stupid ass people who are suing Purdue win - it WILL set a precedent. Watson, Roxane etc. can all get sued for putting "addicting" medications out there - like Vicodin/Vicoprofen/Darvocet/Percodan etc. If Purdue loses - all of us who rely on pain medications for quality of life will potentially lose. And hell - let's get the doctors TOO! They KNEW WELL that said drugs were/are addicting and besides - THEY'RE the ones who gave it to you directly right? NOT Purdue? So, let's scare the **** out of all drug making companies and doctors so no one can get pain medication (this INCLUDES Methadone - a case like this will only HINDER it's wider spread use, NOT help it. To the layman, juror an addicting opiate is an addicting opiate regardless of it's neat little name. Methadone has a rap that it may never live down.) Anyway, I felt like I had to vent. This is pathetic. It's what America has turned into.
As an aside, I was on Methadone and couldn't tolerate it. I've been switched to Oxycontin - guess what? LESS side effects for me than with the Methadone and my use of it is more stable than my use of the Methadone was. Another REAL aside - I was reading a quick passage in the book "Three Dog Nightmare", a book by the Junky who was in 3 Dog Night. His addiction was DEEP deep deep. Anyway, his wife and him had a child while strung out. His comment on this was - (paraphrased) - "It was so sad to see that poor baby suffer through withdrawal. The heroin was bad, but the methadone withdrawal is the worst! Heroin is rough, but you can get through it. Methadone gets down in your bones".......Once I read that, I was glad to be off the Methadone. I have heard this echoed time and again by people - Methadone is a ***** to get off. (not that Oxycontin et al aren't, but Methadone has a rep for this too.) Even after switching to the Oxycontin, I noticed withdrawals from the Methadone. In my opinion, it's a tough drug, one that is almost a life long one. I was on it for 3 months and had a weird time getting off of it.
So, let's try not to bunch Oxycontin etc. into groups. Each drug works differently for different people. And lawsuits etc. shouldn't even THREATEN to take away drugs that increase the quality of life for people. Anyone involved in something like that is beneath contempt in my book.
I am new to this forum and I have come here for some help and advice ! I was prescribed vicodin for severe neck pain due to a chronic herniation and I took it every day for almost 2 months. Now I am off of it. I had spinal fusion surgery at c5,c6, and c7 about two weeks ago and Now I am virtually pain free. I took my last vicodin about 3 days ago and now I am suffering ! I ache all over and I feel vaguely nauseous. I can't sleep, and I don't know what to do.
Hello, this is just a quick note to say hi, I'm still among the living & doing OK. Thanks to all of you who expressed kind & sincere thoughts about my friend's recent death. Today I found out that the small hospital where she was initially treated did not do a very good job of caring for her, & by the time she was transferred to a major hospital, it was too late. I take comfort knowing she is with God and is probably putting in a good word for me! Seriously, your expressions of sympathy helped me a great deal. I plan now to do something to memorialize her and another person who died under similar circumstances. I want to make a lasting reminder of the special lives they led & the good they did during their all-too-brief time here on earth. I'm coming back to the forum , so look out for me! Bless you all for being there for me. I just hope I can return the favor in any way possible. -- Your friend Milo
This isn't a political site, but every once in a while politics squeezes itself in, as in this statement, attributed to people who "vote republican" - "it's up to the government to make the decisions and look out for me."
Sorry Charlie. That is a leftist sentiment pure and simple. It is characteristic of the same folks in the US House and Senate who clamor for tax cuts for people who aren't paying any tax in the first place. It's pure hypocrisy. And I'm afraid, Jimenez, if you think this is the sentiment of a conservative then you don't really understand the issues, nor the difference between liberal and conservative thinking.
It's a funny position to be in, because it's conservatives who are my worst enemy - insofar as pain medication is concerned.
Having disagreed with your political musings, however, I must say that I DO appreciate your comments on methadone. I've been on oxy for going on three years for chronic pain resulting from some very serious osteo- type injuries/pain and was thinking about switching to methadone. Your post makes me come to a halt in that thinking until I discover more about it.
The vast majority of posts here dealing with methadone make fairly glowing statements about it. Yours is very different. Can you say anything more about your experiences and about methadone in general?
Sorry about the trivial/uncalled for digression on my part into the realm of politics. I did put a smily face in there to kind of show I had some of my tongue in my cheek. So, enough of that.
Did I take it for a long enough time to have a valid opinion? Yes.
Did it work well as a pain reliever for me? Yes. Very Well.
Did it have side effects - including being VERY drowsy and kinda "noddy"? Yes. In my case, moreso than other patients on the same dose...everyone's different (the prime reason I was taken off of it was the drowsiness.)
Do I think people are placed on WAY too high of a dose of Methadone for Pain management AND addiction maintanence? YES! Very much so. When I read of a 20 Vicodin a day user getting placed on 70 Mgs. of Methadone, I am appalled. Way too much. And at that rate, they will NEVER get off that drug at a mg. a month or so decrease.
Do I think that the last 10 mgs. or so of Methadone is almost impossible to get off? In my opinion - Yes. Like I said, I switched from Methadone to Oxycontin and STILL encountered a type of withdrawal. It was a deeeeeper withdrawal than I had ever experienced.(I don't know HOW bad it would have been cold turkey - but it would have been the worst I have encountered - that much I could tell) It was strange to say the least. When I first was placed on Methadone, I was taking Lortab 10 and/or Norco in very high doses 15-30 a day, minimum. MS Contin made me dopey like the Methadone did. I fell asleep (nodded out) at work - NOT cool. So, I got put on Methadone (which later proved to knock me out unexpectedly during the day...not cool either.) 10 mgs.3x a day of the Methadone. Well even though I was having up to 300 mg. days of Hydrocodone - I got WAY high on my initial dose of Methadone.(of course, I took a higher dose than prescribed, thinking 10mgs. was laughable...I thought it was laughable because of the doses I read people taking on this forum. Still, it was only 30 mgs. that made me VERY high) I came to this forum and posted about it. "Spook" I believe went on to tell me that Methadone reached other opiate receptors that the Hydrocodone hadn't reached - thus making me high. The "high" quickly went away and couldn't really be reached again even if/when I wanted to. Very elusive after first titration - like the MS Contin - hence it's great use for pain with less "chance of addiction". Now, here is where I have a problem with that - it IS MUCH less addicting (the MSContin and the Methadone that is) than say - Norco or Oxycontin. The high, if you want one, is just not the same or available as readily. BUT and it's a big BUT - this does not mean that your body isn't JUST as dependent on the drug (MS/Meth) than say - Oxycontin. The desire to use it to get "high" is just less. So, like I said - Spook tells me that "new" opiate receptors have been awoken with my newfound drug - Methadone. In my book - I didn't need ANY more opiate receptors that needed to be fed like small birds everyday. I had plenty letting me know when they were hungry. This is where I think the HARDER Methadone withdrawal "syndrome" comes in...I truly believe that it DOES reach deeper than the other narcotics and gets "down into your bones". So much so that when I switched to Oxycontin - I HAD WITHDRAWALS! This says to me - that even Oxycontin couldn't reach as "deep" as Methadone could. Not very cool in my book...But to each his own. Now, with the Oxycontin, I don't get anywhere near as drowsy. I've given my wife my supply so it's under control as far as abuse goes. Because of my bowel surgeries I have what is termed "rapid transit time" so I think that that contributes to me wanting to get an early dose all the time because it does seem to wear off after about 8 hours for me...
In the end Francois, I think Methadone is an awesome pain reliever that does it's job very well...but almost TOO well for my tastes. It wraps it's claws around you without you even knowing. When I've abused my meds before, I've known from the high or the lack thereof (because of tolerance) where I was in my dilemna...sort of "where I stood with it." You know what I mean? With Methadone I never felt that way. Had someone told me I needed MMT to get off pain meds and dosed me first day with liquid Methadone - 75 mgs. or so - I would have been laid out high on the floor. No joke. Even with my big time use of Hydrocodone. Weird. Why are people getting into such high doses of Methadone?
Do I think that the "government" wants people/money for the longest the can? Yes. But that's my conspiracy theory mind at work again.
This is probably WAY more than you wanted/needed to know...but hey, I'm out of my box today and thought I'd give you the whole story. My opinion of Methadone is based mostly on my experience with it - that experience is then augmented a bit by what I've read, seen and heard about it - true and false. I've read how hard it was to get off - and then felt it firsthand. I also remember someone saying here that the reason Methadone has such a long half-life is because it's very hard for your liver to metabolize. This makes sense because Methadone is NOT a true "Contin" It can be broken up etc. without effecting it's half-life. Now, the reason I wanted off drugs like Norco etc. and the reason my doctor wanted me off them - was to protect my liver AND afford me pain relief. Now, if Methadone is still hard on my liver - what's the point? A lot of little things like that have effected my opinion of Methadone also...So, take it for what it's worth.
This day has been hell. I have not had percocet in one and a half days. My last dose of percocet was yesterday morning at 8:00am. Yesterday wasn't too bad but I woke up at 4:30 in the morning in a cold sweat. My bones where aching. It felt like I had to itch but scratching was not relief. It seemed like my bones where itching, now that I think about. I took a Darvocet when I woke up which helped out a great deal. I also took a vistaril for the sickness. I fell back to sleep around 8:00am and woke up around 12:30pm. I took another vistaril and this chewable naseua medication I bought OTC at the pharmacy. I did get some relief from the chewable medication so I would recomend it to anyone in my situation. It's called Nauzene Chewables. Overall I have been feeling really crappy but I just took a bath so now I am relatively comfortable. I just don't wan't to feel the way I felt this morning. The clonodine, which usually helps, didn't help as much as I though it would. I keep thinking, "if I just take a percocet I can end my suffering." Fortunately for me I don't have any and I don't feel well enough to go out and visist a doctor to get the pills. A couple weeks ago I felt like I was on top of the world, I had 60 percocet 10mg tablets and 30 percocet 7.5mg tablets. I didn't think I would ever run out. When I did run out I got 30 percocet 5mg tablets and 36 percocets 7.5mg tablets. Again I ran out. Now here I am...going through withdrawl. I am very mad at myself. I am also ashamed of myself. 5 years ago when I was a senior in high school I had my life planned out. I was going to the 7th best college on the east coast and felt great. It's funny because then I never planned to budget time in my life for addiction. If you would of told me then that I would be an addict now I would of laughed at you. I never even drank...actually, I hated drinking. When I dated I wouldn't date girls who drank. To me I thought it was unattractive. I have lightened up on that opinion. My last girlfriend drank alot...she wasn't an alcoholic just a weekend drinker...typical college senior. I never thought that addiction would grab me. I though to myself last night, "I could either be a really great success story or I could be a statistic in the morgue." I know if I don't stop it will kill me. I figure I have about another day and a half of feeling really crappy and then I should start feeling better. Does anyone know if I will go through withdrawl again after I stop the darvocet (I only plan to take it for the remainder of my detox). I know there are tons of people out there who know what I am going through. I feel crappy right now but this is actually the easy part. Staying off the drug is the hard part. I keep thinking to myself, "what if I get hurt or break a bone and need pain medicine in the future?" I know I can't take the pain medicine responsibly. Oh well, one step at a time. I placed a call to get into an outpatient program. I went to this place before but I had a problem. It seemed like some people were not interesting in getting better. They were just interested networking and finding drugs. I know because I was approached several times. Everything from percocet to steroids people asked me about. I use to take steroids when I was playing sports and working out last year so people knew i was knowledgeable on the topic. Well I do hope to get back in the program and ignore the people who are not taking it seriously. I also hope I start to feel better. I want to kick this thing!! I can't wait to be free from drugs!
hey there good people:
i'm back somewhat-
yes - i hope to post more
no - i didn't resolve (completely) what's been bothering me.
damm - i know a good thing for me when i stumble into it & regular
posting just may be that!
enough about me for now.
wildcat: i've been thinking about your posting last sunday. i'm the kind of person who usually doesn't lack for oppinion. i also tendtoward letting anyone and everyone know how i feel. enough said.in my oppinion demerol (meperidine hcl.) is some pretty bad news stuff. my own expierence led me to this oppinion. Injecting this stuff IV seemed to always lead to a needle abcess (i always was real carefull to use clean works, plenty of alchohol, etc.). i also noticed after several weeks of using demerol my hands would develope tremors and shaking. when i used heroin,dilaudid, oxymorphone, morphine sulfate, etc. my hands were rock steady. large doses of demerol would tounge tie me (this is not an uncommon side effect). smaller doses of demerol also made me stutter.all in all my expierence with demerol solved the mystery of why so many of the older junkies called it "dummy oil!" please be on the watch for any of these side effects even when taking it as perscribed!
Wizard, Milo, JB, jennyfla,witchywoman, Thomas, cindi, & anyone
else i've overlooked, i may not be the smatest junky ever, but
actively posting on this forum made me feel like i was somewhere
i really belonged. i guess your stuck with me for a while longer!!
Hey there and Shazam LOL I'm glad you didn't stay away for too long as well as myself,,between the mail from you and Wizard I realized that someone does care and yes even my husband cares even more than I ever gave him credit for..took gramma to her lung specialist today and he was the last doc to take care of my mom when she died..never cared for him..total ego but whatever!! i am used to the egos many docs have tried the egos on me and got nowhere because that **** about being a physician, social status, ferarris (spelling), mega bucks etc. just never impressd me at all..anyway back to the point... he recognized me from my mom and started in on how I should be proud of her how she struggled yada yada yada,,and a big fat YODA..anyway gram should be ok just trying to convince her of that is gonna kill me LOL I am doing alot of soul searching,,,lookin dee within me....please, kip would ya tell Irishrose that I am looking forward to talking more with hr,,,and I'm glad we (you and I) are both back come to think of it Skipper could never ever get rid of Gilligan coudl he..and sarg carter could never get rid of Pyle eithr Goooooooooollly imamgine that...and wiz,,,looks like you are takin old dorothy right to kansas with you but yiu have to do it on your scoot,,,never much one for hot air balloons have known too many of them in my life love to all cin
Hi...I did notice you hadn't posted in a while and missed you! I am sorry to hear that things exploded on the marriage front. I sure know how that feels..my marriage gets pretty rocky from time to time too, we're currently in one of those rocky phases as well.
Marriage counseling helped us a lot, here's hoping that it helps you two as well.
I wondered where you've been! LOL I need my Wizardly guidance
I hope you are doing well..your words and encouragement help me every single day. Today I'm doing well. I've eaten normally, rather than scheduling when I eat around wanting an empty tummy at medication time. The pain is still high, 8 or so, but I'm still hoping that in a few more months it flutters down to at most 6, so I can keep that taper going in the DOWNWARD direction.
I would hardly call it 'stuck', you silly guy; we all need you as much as you need us, remember that!!!! :)
As sick as i am right now, and going through a tough time, you are all in my heart, and i have plenty of prayers left over after all the prays i've been saying for myself!!! :)
Stay strong, and you will resolve your problem, it's only a minor setback, i'm confident that you will get through it. You're one tough guy, and it's gonna take a lot more than this addiction to take you down!!!!
Stay here with us, and through our group's strength and energy, may we all find the strength that we need to beat this horrible demon of addiction!!!
Glad to see you back, stay safe!!!! :)
Man, I've been indisposed w/ some little "rugrat" relatives(2 toddlers) for a few days.....and thought...i've gotta get to the forum...or I'll be lost again. LOL Seems it's been sorta quiet over here. Didn't miss much.......and didn't get missed much either....lmao JJ
Well, wiz/cin....We had one of our big blowouts again. Just when ya think things are better...... Almost made a B-line for the attorney's ofc. this afternoon. Got a committment to see a marriage counselor.....so any steps in the legal direction will be on hold till "action speaks louder than words!"
Sorry, I haven't gotten back to you w/ that email yet.... as you can see, its been real hell here........I'll be needing some of those rainbows again......LOL
Hope your doing ok...cin???
Hang in there Tyler..I"m very impressed that you are doing this, and want to give you all the support I can. I wish I knew the answers to all your questions. I think that if you are careful to taper the darvocet, you may be able to avoid withdrawals from it, but I am not sure.
Have you read Thoma's post on how to detox? He reposted it on one the threads above this one..it's really good, though I haven't gone through it yet, lots of people here swear by it.
Keep us posted on how you are doing, and I'll be rooting for you and keeping you in my prayers.
It sounds like you are having withdrawals from the vicodin. I am no expert, but I think that the worst is over in 3 or 4 days, so you should start feeling better pretty soon.
Look on the other threads in the forum for Thomas's suggested supplements for detox. He recommends taking l-tyrosine and b6, and suggests taking hot baths to help with the muscle aches. Supplementing with zinc, magnesium, and manganese also helps.
Good luck to you, and I'm really happy to hear that the surgery seems to have helped your pain. May you stay pain free and addiction free!
Hi all, sorry I haven't been around but my server is down and I haven't been able to get on the forum or to my e-mail.I just have a few minutes on this line and wanted to check in. Angelica, I'm so sorry to hear about the home scene for you. As soon as I can get t my mail I'll send you some "Rainbows" dear. Cin, I don't know what's up with you at the moment as I can't connect but you are in my thoughts and prayers. Hang in there girl.
Jenny, you too darling, If you cold turkey it just know that you CAN do it and with your husband there it will be easier than trying now on your own. I'm here for you too. (sooner or later anyway)LOl
Kerrie, I don't know if you got my mail it seemed to go down right after I tried to send but I just wanted to say thank you for all your prayers and support.
W.W. Same goes for you lady. I miss all of you and I'llcatch up as soon as I get my link back.
Everyone, you are in my thoughts, Heart, Mind and prayers, so till later,
Power & Magick 2 U ALL,
Peace & Light & Rainbows on us,
.......To the rescue as usual. Thank you also!......Hope your doing ok, and maybe when I get back from my little trip next week(leaving friday for one week)....We'll pick up where we left off RE: the bios....lol
Hope all is well on your end......Take Care!
Could you tell me alittle more about Methadone. My ex told me he only takes Methadone now and then, when he needs it. He had a full blown addiction to oxy's and perc's. He was put on 70mg of methadone aday back the first week of March. In May he told me he was down to 5mg's aday. He's always lied to me. Long story. Is he for real about only now and then? Or is he lying again? I know nothing about methadone, he told me it is non addicting. I did find out that his dr. can no longer perscribe methadone or oxycontin to him, (insurance I think) So I'm wondering is he clean, lying, or getting it elsewhere? Or someother drug?. Thanks for any reply, I just need to be careful since this is why he's gone. Thank You Susan
Okay, since it sounds like there's a lot of water under the bridge between you and your guy - I'll try to just answer the one question that I think you're asking:
Is it possible to just "dabble" once in awhile with Methadone?
First of all - Methadone IS addicting. It IS a narcotic and you will have withdrawal symptoms if you stop it cold turkey. So don't let him confuse you on that topic. Methadone is and always has been addicting.
Now, with that being said, in MY experience after the initial "high" that I got from STUPIDLY taking more than was prescribed the first day I got Methadone - the "high" wasn't easily achieved after that. It's kind of like how Thomas described his Ultram experience. For a SHORT while, it feels great...and then nothing really. Now, if your old man is TRULY only taking Methadone say - every other week, it would be possible for him to take it, get high (if that's what he was after) OR possibly satisfy his cravings for OTHER drugs - Oxycodone etc. I guess in some rare cases, someone COULD use Methadone sparingly...But, I would say that most people who "use it sparingly", end up getting back on their drug of choice. It's like getting drunk on Gin. You've always preferred Whiskey, but you're trying to quit drinking so you only drink Gin once in awhile. The fact that you're still putting alcohol in your system aside, you will, in a moment of weakness or drunkeness, reach out for your old standby - Whiskey.
...But I'm not sure what's going on with you two. Maybe he REALLY is only taking the Methadone "once in awhile"...Possibly when he's run out of the other drugs? Drug addicts think that way - "Well, I'm not really lying to her - I really only take the Methadone now and then..." Conveniently leaving out that the "now and then" is when the other drugs have run out and he needs something to get him through...Now, I'm not saying that's what is happening...I don't know ANYTHING about your circumstances. But I do know about addiction. You said that he was placed on 70 mgs. of Methadone back in March. That's only 5 months ago. Going from 70 mgs. down to 5 mgs. would be very impressive indeed if that is truly what he has accomplished.(And it would have been a bumpy ride for him - one that you probably would have noticed.) There are others here that can tell you about stepping down with Methadone better than I can. But for someone with a very BAD habit (which I think you have implied that he has/had) this would seem a little far fetched to me. Now, if the guy has really changed...and he's a NEW MAN - physically, emotionally etc. - then maybe he's telling the truth. But if he hasn't had some really hard times the last couple of months (Since March) I would say he's still using. Coming down that quickly from Methadone - or anything that you've been on for years - will take it's toll on you. I would have expected to see him really "toughing it out" if he has really kicked. Were you living with him these last few months? If you were maybe you could tell me how he was acting. If he was only "maintaining" and then rapidly decreasing his Methadone intake (70 mgs. down to 5mgs), he would have been irritable some days...maybe restless at night time. But if he did all this with a smile on his face and a gleam right in his eye - I would say he never stopped using. I guess I shouldn't be saying anything not really knowing the details...I'm trying to help though. Maybe you could give me some more details that are in that "long story" of yours?
Bottom line: If he was a HARDCORE addict...one who was lying to you, one who was using anything he could get his hands on - ONLY 5 MONTHS AGO - Chances are he's still somewhat wrapped up in that scene. If he isn't, and is truly down to an occasional 5 mgs. of Methadone, I am in awe of him and would glady eat every word I've said in this post. He would be the strongest man I know.
Anyway, if this helped or didn't help - let me know. If you'd like, let me know how he's been acting...since March, before March and the Methadone, and how he's acting now. Not meaning to pry, but if I'm going to try and help, I need to know a little more :)
Maybe someone with more Methadone experience could pipe in too?
Thank you everyone who responeded to my post about withdrawl. I spoke to my doctor and she said that it was too dangerous to do on my own and I should get profesionally detox. So yesterday I found a detox center that use buprenorphine. I was given this before and didn't like it at all. But suprisingly it worked wonders. It relxed me and relieved all my withdrawl symptoms. I strongly recomend it to anyone detoxing. I feel great today! I went and got my bupenorphine this morning and I need to go back tonight. They usually give a 4mg dose but I told them I think I only need a 2mg dose and it has been working just fine. I am proud of myself for taking a smaller dose...it means I'm almost through detox!!! What hell I went through when I was trying to do it myself with the darvocet. My bones ached, I felt extremely sick, and it felt like I had flex all or icy hot running through my veins! I'm glad thats behind me. I think they are trying to give bupenorphine like methodone. It god rid of my cravings. Also it is alot safer than methadone. Methadone, from what I've heard, is HELL to get off of. Another thing about the Bupenorphine is that it is non-addictive. It is called and opiate agonist-antagonist. So when you are taking the bupenorphine and you take other opiates you will not feel the effects of the other opiates. I can't say enough good things about this drug, which is ironic because a couple days ago I though it was a bad way to detox. This place gave me several medications to take at home:
Doxepin: antidepressant that they gave me to take to sleep. Much better than trazadone!!! It relaxes you and gets rid of your anxiety, fear, etc. I would suggest anyone to take this, its a wonderful drug. Ask your doctors about it.
Donnatal: Antispasmodic used to treat stomch cramps. I did not take this drug because I did not have cramps. It has phenobarbital in it which will relax you.
Flexeril: Muscle relaxer, I didn't even need it.
Also they gave me Motrin, Clonodine, and phenregan (this is really good for naseua. It took mine away fast).
This has been the best treatment I have ever recieved. I would recomend this program to anyone. I finall got great night sleep, 11 hours to be exact!! I feel great that I'm off the percocets. I hope I will be feeling this good months from now. Thanks alot jennyfla, witchwomen, and others for helping me get through this. I will be here for anyone who wants to get off the drugs. I will remain posting to let everyone know how I am doing. If anyone needs any help, I will be there for you guys 100%.
my name is kip. I've been watching the post and have seen several of yours. my heart goes out to you as you remind me very much of a
good friend in my past.
1) always remember this forum no matter how good or how bad things
maybe going for you. see- we need each other. i can't do alone,
what i've done with the forum and all of it's posters. carry us in
your heart (not your head), and know that someone else will have you in theirs.
2) a while back, in one of your posts you asked a very impresive
question: what will i do now (that i'm an addict) if i ever need
a pain killer? In the 20 some years of shooting any opiate i could
get my hands on, I never once gave consideration to this question.
what will kip do if he ever actully needs GOM (Gods Own Medicine)
for real pain? I had the beter part of 20 years of recovery when
an injury from something really pointless and stupid i did back in
1970 came back in the form of 2 herniated cervical disks, to put me back on the "hell bound train!" i wish there was an answer that
could be packaged up as clen and neat as those oxycodone tablets
you got at the drug-store! i have pondered this many nights as i
stood up to the wall with my neck and back as flush to it as i could get them. you see tyler, i'm in constant pain. i'm also an oil burner of a junky that has done everything to get drugs. i guess you know as well as the rest of us-- there aint no santa clause on the midnight train. but still it isn't so bad- i've got a beautiful wife, this forum, and whole lot of things i never used to have the sense to appreciate!
3) my first sponcer in a 12 step program told me three things to
never forget:(1) i'm going to love and car about you, and there's
not a damm thing you can do about it,(2)) not every one afflicted
with the illnes of substance abuse will live thru it, (3) even if
it hasn"t killed you, you may never find recovery. concentrate on the first for now, but don't ever foget the other 2.
Keep us informed, it's the strength that you share when your growing that gives all of us what we need most of all. also-
talk from your heart and your guts--save the head stuff for your
return to college.
Kip, what outstanding advice to Tyler. First off I want to say how happy I am that you are on the forum. Listening to the voice of the "BEEN THERES" has always been better recieved than the "outta the bookies". Tyler, you take this gold mine of experience to heart dude. You can't buy this type of knowledge. When the "Dragon" whispers to you "JUST THIS ONE MORE TIME,THAT'S ALL" you kick it right between its scaly legs and run like hell! This forum and the angels on it have saved my life and I'll be forever grateful. Kip, "know" I'm with you man, anytime you need.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light on us all,
......Thanks so much for the "I miss you post!"......You have know idea what an uplift that is. Esp. when you feel so unable to control your personal conflicts, and just feel unworthy of change in any direction.
I am also glad to hear that marriage counseling has worked for you and your husband. This is actually a last resort. We do have love for one another...I just think we need someone w/ an unbiased opinion to point us in the right direction, because, obviously we cant do it on our own. I really hope your feeling OK these days, and have come to terms w/ some sort of a decision where your pain/addiction is concerned. No matter how tied up I am on this end, please don't hesitate to lean on me for advice, support, or whatever. Take Care, W.W.
Well, I *did* miss you, and I'm glad my post gave you an uplift...I hope that I can return something to you, and the others here who have already given me so much.
Marriage counseling can be way uncomfortable, but if both are willing to take responsibility for their part of the problem and if the therapist is good , it can work. Me and my hub went for almost two years, every monday morning at 8am..no time to build up our defenses for the day LOL.
I'm doing ok..but have no illusions that I'm "in recovery" yet. I know that I need the meds for pain, at least for now, so I am working on not taking more than I am supposed to, which is very hard. Yesterday I did great, and today so far I'm also doing great.
Thank you very much for your kind words. I really treasured your post. I will NEVER forget what I have been through and never forget everyone in this forum. Everyone in this forum has helped me through this difficult time. I thank God that I found this forum because you guys helped give me the motivation to quit. I had the motivation myself, but it's so much better when other people care and support you. I figured I would stop doing drugs one way or the the other...I can stop on my own...or die. I believe that what I have done took alot of stength and courage. But I also know that getting off the drugs physically is easier than getting of them psychologically. The real test will be what I do with the cravings in the future. I look at addiction like someone on a diet. At first you get really motivated to lose weight (or quit drugs). So you will do whatever it takes to lose weight (or stop using). But soon you will get craving to eat the bad food (or drugs). If you are truly dedicated you will be determined not to give in to eating the junk food (or taking the drugs). If you are not dedicated you will give in and binge on whatever junk food you can get your hands on (or drugs). I want to remain sober. I know this is going to be tough. But I also know you and others will be there for me when I need you most. My mom told me, "these people in your support group will be like a second family to you." How true it is. I would also like to give you and others some advice that has helped me. "A man who truly wants something will find a way. A man who doesn't will find an excuse." I hope this helps. I can't wait to hear other people post a similar message like I posted today. I am pulling for each and every one of you guys. The time needs to be right for you to quit. If you don't quit now, you are not a bad person, you just need to find the right time when you truly know in your heart you want to stop using. Thanks again and good luck to you.
Is it my imagination going wild again or did I just hallucinate another of them Caring, helping, wonderful lady to the rescue posts from that Cindy, who thinks she has nothing to offer?
Nahhhhhhhhhhh, couldn't be............
Hey Dorothy ;-* MUAHHHHHHHHH!
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light on YOU 2,
luv Cheeze Wiz
I have not been posting much but I have been reading when I get a chance....What can I say to you after wizard and Skip..you have found the right place to come to...the key to all of this is the willingness...and most part here have the willingness...we have the willingness, we have the desire and most importantly we have each other......there is nothing better than one addict helping another please remember to always be honest. especially with yourself..keep an open mind..you not always like what we have to tell you and get angry at us but EVERYTHING that is said to you is said because we care..i came here 7 months ago ( i can't beieve it has been that long)since my mom passed away on Christmas morning..my world fellapart and these people here have been there for me everystep of the way and Heaven has a special spot for each of them as my heart also does,,,my manners are terrible..please, forgive me for not welcoming yo the proper ladylike way LOL welcome to our little piece of serenity love to all cindi
From your post, it sounds like you are doing fantastic.
What a wonderful gift you will be someday to all the people you will doctor in the future!!!
We need more 'doctors' in the world, ones that understand addiction!!!
There's no better way to learn something other than experiencing it firsthand!!
Did you know that doctors are only required to study (forget the hours or percentage that my husband told me), but it was pathetically low!!!
They are basically completely uneducated in addiction unless they take it upon themselves to learn more about it!
I hope all that you've been through will someday help others during your medical profession. I'm so impressed with the way you words things, and all the feelings you have that come straight from your heart! Your a beautiful person, and i just know that you are going to help so many in your future!
You are a person that really has it together, i can see that so clearly!
Never mind the slip with addiction, it's amazing, after being honest with people lately, how many have suffered from addictions of all kinds!
You are far from alone, and the stereo-type addicts are changing rapidly, it can hit anyone, anywhere, from the bum in the gutter, to the president of the US (not true, but you know what i mean).
As i've said on this forum a while back, addicts are truly special people. We are ones who feel strongly about things which gets us in trouble sometimes. We are sensitive people who just need alittle help getting through this difficult world, and fall in the wrong direction sometimes. Addicts are the true 'real people' of the world. It's the people who seem to slide through life with no addictive problems that really miss out on things. Some simply don't know how to really feel and love, and they are the ones who really miss out on life, not the ones who have climbed out of the addiction world.
Hope this makes sense. I'm extremely tired, and it didn't come out exactly like i've said it in the past, but i hope you get my point!
Anyway, we are all very proud of you, keep being strong, and continue being YOU, very special!
Hello my forum family. I was reading the thread and just wanted to say hello. My pain has been better the last few days. Hope it stays that way. I wanted to encourage the newcomers to continue to come here. I came looking for help for my 23 year old daughter and received much needed help for myself. The people here really do care and never judge you for any mistakes. They only want to help you as they help others. Please come back and talk. I am a chronic pain sufferer (is that right?) and they have helped me through some rough times. My daughter is still fighting the demon. She's really trying but she won't seek help and is not doing well. I have begged her to come here and talk but she is angry that I come here and even mention her. I will keep you all in my prayers.
Wizard, I got your e-mail but nothing was there,just who it was from. Try and write again. It was great to almost hear from you.
Cindi, thanks for all the prayers and I loved the woman day thing. I hope your feeling better. Write when you can.I want to hear how your doing .
Jennyfla and Angelica,hold on girls. I know your both troubled right now for different reasons but Gods there and we're here. Stay strong.Brighter days are just ahead. I think I read somewhere you were being sent rainbows. Just remember the rainbow always follow the storms. God bless you both.
I'm so glad your pain is better, bless your heart!!!
Maybe someday soon, your daughter will begin to open up her heart and seek the help she so strongly needs.
Keep encouraging her to come to the board. I hope to have my husband join in when he returns, i think it will do him so much good to know he isn't alone.
It will be hard for your daughter because it's a step facing the fact that she is an addict, a difficult step, but it will come in time... Keep being the wonderful, supportive mom that you are, and know that her life lyes in her own hands, you suffer so terribly for her.
I hope to god that my children never go through the pain of addiction. It must be heartwrenching to see your own child go through this, i can only imagine!!!
I feel for you, and i pray for your daughter's heart to be able to open up and receive the help she so deeply needs!
You are both in my prayers!
BTW, i'm glad to see i'm not the only nightowl around here, i feel not so alone tonight!
Good God! How naive can I be. I haven't been around the forum much lately...too much going on. I was wrong. My ex is no longer on Methadone.....what I found out yesterday from his dr. (who is mine) is that he can nolonger perscribe it to him. The Law.. So he now give's him 60 40mg's of Oxycontin every two weeks. Boy am I stupid! This Dr. is crazy, he knows he's an addict and he's giving all this to him! His nurse told me it's all for the money, he does this with most of his patients. I can't figure why this dr. who's a family dr. is not getting into trouble especially since this law passed last week. My ex doesn't have cancer, chronic pain, nothing that would warrent even a percocet.....Show's you what the world's coming too. I've been down about this for a few days, knowing he lied to me again....over and over he lies and lies.......things never change....Thank You Tylerburben for the infor.....I think I will go to a meeting tonight....Love you guys, and I will be in touch with all of you that I have your e-mails.....Love you all, Susan
Lea, I'm so glad to see your post and that your seeing someone else. But I still detect an overwhelming concern for your ex. I know you have a lot of time together but try to erase him from your life hon. You see how sick he is. It is still a real threat as long as he has this power over you even if you think you have controll of your feelings. He sounds like my brother made over. My brother nearly desrtoyed his first wife. She put miles between them and divorced him but he still had a spell on her. You keep working on being happy. You deserve it. Your in my prayers.Did you move like you had planned ?
Jennyfla, I wish I could do something to help your insecurity. You aren't a failure Hon. Would you try something please. For the next few days, everytime you think how bad a person you are,stop and WRITE DOWN something good about yourself. You are going through a lot right now and going cold turkey would be hard , I'm sure, on someone with an easy life. You have a full plate.Your husband sounds like an understanding man. He knows how hard it is for you. Keep trying but please quit thuinking so bad of yourself. I only wish my daughter had the same compassion for her children that you do. You will make it Jen. You want it with all your heart and that's why you'll succeed. I'll keep you in my prayers. I'm proud of you for wanting to be a better person. But I think your pretty great now. Just ask your kids. Hey, that's the first thing I want you to put on your list,GREAT MOM,CARING WIFE,CHILD OF GOD,CARING FRIEND. The only time you need to put that head down hon is in prayer. God's here for you and so is everyone here. God Bless you.
Thank you sweetie for your encouragement.
I am a good mom, and no one will ever take that away from me, i know this in my heart.
I'm feeling weak today as my day of quitting comes closer.
My husband said NO TAPERING! I'm doing it cold turkey, i've been given enough time.
I'm just so very very scared!
I'm sure if things get real bad, a little 1/2 of a loracet will be allowed to ease the pain, i hope!
I have my kids' orientation next friday, smack in the middle of detox, and i have to meet their teachers. I will do my best, and make sure that i make it through that, i have too!
What a mess!!! I'm disappointed that i didn't do what i was supposed to while my hub was in treatment! This addiction is one heck of a beast!!!
Thank you for the phone call today, you're a sweetie for thinking of me, especially with all that's going on in your life.
I enjoyed talking with you, and please stay strong, and don't let your ex manipulate you!
LEA, LEA LEA !!!! My dear One, why would you be so upset to learn this new tidbit of info about your ex? and please believe me, I m not belittleing you.."scolding" you or anything else.but hon,,,He has lied to you over and over and over again and I don't forsee a change in him anytime soon...do not be surprised by ANYTHING you have learned about him.....ANYTHING>>>even if you found out he has 20 wives all over the world and 40 children don't be surprised......please, give yourself a break,,,,Kerrie is right I also, detect this overwhelming concern for him....Listen to me,,you my dear will never be happy in life or in any other relationship or even with your self until you severe everything with this man.. I have been this route...when you go to the dr...Why do you even ask about him? and legally they should not be telling you anything about him....they are breaking confidentiality laws......If they volunteer any info about him politely tell them that you are not interested in anything he is doing this is his problem it is not yours....Lea,,,Please do not be upset with me for saying this to you.......I have been where you are....so entirely into someone and what was going on with him....consumed, obsessed, whatevr u want to call it......i almost lost my mind over it......actually, i almost lost everything over it.....please,,lea,,,,I care about you severe everything with him do not ask anybody anything....and no, you are not niave,,you are emeshed in this whole web of this man.....a very hard cycle to break,,,,,again please don't be upset by this post....you should know by now I only care..perhaps a bit too much at times but I do care.....God be with you Love to all cin
Oh guys! I could never be upset with any of you. I love you all dearly. I got obsessed again with him I know. It was a bad day, and my exhusband called me to talk like he always does. Then he proceeds to tell me my ex was at his house last night to have a long talk. They are on good terms with each other. But my former husband tells me I need to go back with my ex, and stop dumping the men that love me. My exhusband knows nothing about my ex's drug habit. If he does I would be surprised. My exhusband is former DEA. So that is why I got upset and the girls in the Drs office are so clueless when they tell me about him. I think they want me to do something and that's why they tell me everything. I think I will get a new Dr., I've lost all respect for him now. My ex has called about giving me money but no show. I told him I was ok, I don't want him connected to me. He's left everything here to get at his convience. Somethings I will keep the others I will give away. He has not said anything about getting his stuff, so it's been about 5 months. Possession is 9/10ths of the law. It's mostly junk anyway. I see him more as he is. I believed he was clean, I believed him that he would get better, his life better when he left. I believed for awhile it was me. But now I know the only life that got better was mine. I can't believe a grown man is living with his parents. It's such a convience for him, someone told me he's just staying there until I beg him to come back home to me. To except him, believe him, and not ask any questions. I will not and have not. He's got 4 kids, and he seems to be such a loser! I don't believe it ALL has to do with the drugs. He's always been on the Oxy's, I know that now. He lies and lies. I'm sure my exhusband told him I'm seeing someone else. My exhusband wants me with my ex because it makes him feel like such a winner, and that I went down in life. Which I did. This new man is so different. He will have maybe 3 or 4 beers in one week. He works top security clearence, so he's never done any drugs. Just normal and so nice, so far. It makes me want to escape my past. I can't believe I gave my unconditional love to a man who took what he could from me and never gave back! I know I am still vunerable but I do see that a 38 year old man, should not be in his situation, living at home, 4 kids, and the worst thing is he looks terrible. His hair is sooo long, down to his waist now. He looks very unkept. I was so worried he would find someone else. When he was on the Oxy's he had no interest in sex or anything, plus he couldn't if he wanted to, so I don't believe anythings changed there. I will be ok, my life is definately getting better. I love all of you for being there for me, listening all these months to my tears and fears. He can't fool me anymore, and I think he knows it. He knows I see him for what he is, and that he's diminished in my eyes. When I spoke to him the other day, he was so on guard with me, I kept it brief and said goodbye. I believe he's lost the best thing in his life, me. He is going nowhere but downhill.........So it wasn't me, he told me he is surviving. I will keep you posted, and Jenny I will try to call you tonight...Love you guys.....Susan
Stay strong Susan, and cindi is absoluately right with all she said... listen to her, she is an extremely smart person, and has one of the most loving hearts i've ever seen in a person...
Please try to detach from your ex completely. No more asking about him or listening to anything about him, detach completely, it's the only way!!
Good luck sweetie, and again, i'm sorry i had to jump off the phone so quickly, i look forward to talking to you again soon.
(this thing suddenly posted for no reason. I tink it's trying to tell me to shut up !)
As I was saying, not for the high but for how desperately I need relief from this pain at times. But it's a blessing I can't take very much without ill effects. I come from a long line of alcoholics and drug addicts. So I thank God for that. Your going to do it !!!!!
God Bless, Kerrie
Hi Hon. I was so taken by your dertermination to register your son yourself with being in the middle of your detox. You see. Thats why your going to make it because your a strong and caring person. It's not just addicts that have problems with depression hon. There are days I could stay in the bed and not speak to anyone. Everyone here knows what your going through with the detox. I don't know about it personally except for what I've learned here. But Angelica and I and other chronic pain sufferers, know how addiction happens. We know it doesn't mean your a failure or anything of the sort. It eans your human. I know if it wasn't for the fact I've always gotten throwing up sick by much pain med, that I too would of crossed that line and took more than I should. Not for
He called 4 times today, saw it on my caller ID. No message. The 5th time I answered. I swear I don't know what he wanted he preceded to give me a hard time, that the reason he hasn't seen or called my boys is he thought I would want him to stay away. Excuses, excuses. And I told him this, I am not afraid of him, he got really angry, defensive, because he just could not get a reaction from me. Somethings changed, he can't get me to fight back. But stupid me, had to put a dig in there. Told him that the girls at the Drs office said he was back on oxy's, just voluntered it. I know he will not say anything to them for fear of being cut off from the dr. Anyway he blew up, and then HUNG UP! I'm sure he waited for me to call back....but I just started laughing....he is losing his control over me.......So I took my kids out for dinner. How juvenile to hang up on someone who was not yelling or acusing. People who lie, can't take being found out.....see ya guys, Love Susan
I just took a peek before I leave for work here....WOW, you chase storms? What an exciting job.......I think Cin(Dorothy) explained our humor above so I won't be redundant and explain it again.....If you have followed me at all, I like most here do not have a mean bone in my body, so, any joking is strictly amongst friends here. Poking fun at anyone is not my nature. Nice to see you back posting! I've gotta run so I'll catch up later!
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light on U 2,
Sorry I have not written sooner, I have been so busy with other things and was sick all last week. I just now started scrolling the board today. Thanks for the advice about the Demeral. You were absolutely right. Two major seizures and a week of feeling like kah-kah were all I got out of it. I am back on the Codiene for the time being, only my doc upped the dose so I am not as tempted to abuse it. Good luck skip, you have the knowledge and experience. You could write a good book!
Wiz, hello, I missed your funny humor. Some of it is over my head or in between my times on the board. Which is the Cindy(Dorothy). I remember seeing that name when I first started back up on the board several months ago and she mentioned chasing tornadoes. Is that why cindi refers to her as Dorothy and Kansas and hot air? or is that supposed to be a joke on me because I chase typhoons? It's over my head! Be up front, I can take it!LOL!
cindi, what do you mean? If that is referring to me, be up front about it don't play mind-jive. Let's help everyone know their faults, weaknesses, strengths, good things or bad things they do or talk about. This is supposed to help everyone, not be a puzzle or guessing game. Either that or I really need to cut down on the Codiene so I can figure these things out!!!!LOL.
Anyway whatever ya-all mean, I hope ya-all are doing okay.
J.B.- I am sorry to hear about your ordeal. I already addressed that way up top. This thread is too far down, I almost didn't bother to scroll all this way but I wanted to see if I missed anything.
To be honest I forgot you are a storm chaser,,,the Dorothy thing started long before you came to the forum,,,,the WIZARD OF OZ is my my favrite movied and I often would refer to wiz as the wonderful wiz of a wiz he is,,becuz of the wonderful things he duz....and he started calling me dorothy...and we would joke about the flying monkeys and not being in kansas anymore..it was truly a joke between wiz and myself, I a sorry if you took it any other way...please remember that the Wiz, and myself and other other people that come to this forum would ever poke fun at another person here....unless it is just that good fun like i call qiz the cheese qiz cuz he is the boss at work or the "big cheese" or maybe cause he cuts the cheese to much LOL anyway sorry if you took this the wrong way.....love to all cin
so glad your off the dummy-oil. most of the siezures i've ever had were when i was using large amounts of demoral! back in the early 1970 (statute of limittations let talk about this) i did a B&Eof a "Head Ache Clinic." would you believe all i got was dummy-oil, mergan (demoral+ phenergan)and caforgot. The caforgot is some ergotimine derivitive not to be messed with ever, even if
a MD trys to give it to you ( it messes with the blood pressure
in the head). Well i spent the better part of a humid Mpls
summer shooting crank and then trying to crash with dummy oil.
I wound up trading the rest of the demoral and mepergan for guess
what? Yup injectable codiene. cna't iv, but sub-q it really did
the trick. so much for the *good old days*. i don't know how or
why i lived thru them.
hope to hear more from you!
Hi, I re-read your as it was really very early this morning when i read first tme.....I think I summed everything up in my reply to you re: mine and Wizards humor..however, I would like to make one thing clear that did in fact upset me just a bit I do not nor have ever played any kind of "mind Jive" games...whatever I have to say to anyone comes out just the wau I mean it...i have this sort of quirk,,,i say what i feel,,and If you ask e ho I feek about smess,and I do not ever recall a conversation that I had with wizard involving you....anyway,,,,,that's about all just keep in mind I judge no one as I expect not to be judged LOVE TO ALL CINDI
hey there yous:
what a day. work is strangling me.my neck pain---
It would seem i've really made up some mess with our friend from
Belgrade. I talked to the wife of the Serbian Orthodox Church
Priest. -now you have at least got to see the humor in me calling
out of the blind, sayin "hi I'm a recovering drug addict that needs
a Serbian translator to talk with a junky in Belgrade!"- she was
quite calm, polite, even curious. she didn't say no-she didn't say
yes. Well anyway my running off at the mouth, PA thinks i'm a doc
and he is psyco sematic junk ****!!! honest to god i couldn't think
myself into a bigger mess. the consequence of my running off at the
mouth might actually hurt this guy! **** **** ****-- what have i done and how and will be able to set matters square. honest guys
this one got me on my blind side (it's still my fault).
hey you gotta get to bed my eyes are crossed but you are great wonderful human,,,,gd put you here cuz e need you look how you go out of your way to help..this poor fella freom serbia..you are going to the end of earth -to help him you have earned your spot in heaven you you
hey you gotta get to bed my eyes are crossed but you are great wonderful human,,,,gd put you here cuz e need you look how you go out of your way to help..this poor fella freom serbia..you are going to the end of earth -to help him you have earned your spot in heaven you you
I have been on Percoset for well over a year now. What started out as only taking a few here and there became an everyday habit for me. I really don't want to take them anymore. I'm now taking up to 4 a day and to some that's not a lot but for me its more then a lot. I am 22 years old, married and a mother of a 2 year old girl. I am also depressed, It runs in my family and sometimes I stay up until 4 am and sleep late or wake up really early and not get enough sleep. I take the percocest because they numb my pain. I know that is a poor excuse but it is the truth. I don't know what to do and how to get clean. I don't want to take them anymore, but I also Can't go through a withdrawal. I need to be stable to take care of my little one. What can I do? I need help, Anyone have ANY advice? PLEASE HELP ME!
you can also email me at ***@**** Thanks
I saw jennys entry and decided to comment to help her get through this terrible feeling or opiate withdrawl.
I have chronic back pain and a pinched nerve in my back , and I do not need oxys, just vicoden or perks, but I had spent my last penny on buying oxys from friends. I was up to doing 5-8 30mg oxys (roxys) per day, and Finally after attempting many times I stopped and I am proud to say I am twards the end of my fourth day off them. And I hopefully will be getting perscribed something soon for my back and leg which goes numb and has shooting pains.
I would not have been able to stop If it wasnot for suboxine, that stuff is a godsend. I strongly recommend having ur doctor perscribe them to u if you already get perscribed other opiates. I was able to work and function semi normally, I still had some cold sweats and creepy crawling skin and some loose bowls, but Im hoping that will go away in the next few days, at least thats what I tell myself to get by (BTW winter is not at all a withdrawling season - it ***** too cold!) - I have been able to claw my way to the end of day 4. And IN NO WAY IS IT EASY.I constantly find myself having to think about otherthings instead of the pills just to get through the day, And I have to constantly avoid people that do them and tell them I am done with them - basically making it as hard as possible to get them as I can.
Also - I wanted to add - that suboxine is a bit of a crutch - so If you are not really ready to quit , you will relapse. The best way is to go through some withdrawls then do some suboxine which will sprt of take them away so you can function. then as the days progress slightly decrease ur sub dose so you are feeling some withdrawls so you done have it too easy otherwise you will start again.
I wish you all the best of luck in these hard times. It either takes a really strong will , or to hit rock bottom before you get off these things., For me , it is a bit of both. Best of luck - feel free to email me at ***@****
I understand that the suboxone has helped you , but you must be informed that suboxone is a mixed and total agonist/antagonist therefore getting off this Subutex that you so like will also be hard. As it is mixed in it's agonist antagonist actions it is hard. i.e. oxycodone is a complete agonist and naloxone is an antagonist so lets do some play here, mix one part mixed antago/agonist with an complet antagonist you will get played. henceforth ... your free for all is over.
I am 21 and having been using percs, vics, and oxy's for 7 months i have tapered down to 1/4th an oxy 80 a day and maybe a perc 15 if i have it and i take xanex to sleep with benadryl how can i stop completly im a college baseball player and i need to get clean for the season and for the rest of my life i want to make my family proud and im ruining my life how hard is it going to be for me i went one day without it and went back cause of the pain i had what should i do someone please help me
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