oxycodone/hydro codone

[skipper]

since 1997 i have been in intractable pain.  i have had 2 surgerys done on my cervical spine. i'm still in terrific pain. i also am a recovering drug addict  (yep,
you guessed it Opiates.)   i currently am taking 40mg. of oxy-contin three times a
day. before i was put on oxy-contin i was taking 20 mg of hydro-codone 5 times
a day. Is there another opiate that would not have the same problem of sedation
oxy and hydro have? My pharmasist   told me of a narcotic that he hasn't seen
used in 15 years that was what  i was after. It was called levro-dromorian i be-
lieve. is a drug like this on the market? does it really offer sedation free pain re-
lief?
thankyou and keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[Francoise]

I've been on 100 mg oxy twice a day for a long time for back problems (lumbar, L4), and it doesn't make me sleepy, high, or anything else. I don't think you're taking enough oxy, tho'.

BTW, come visit us over at http://pub37.ezboard.com/bthenewaddictionmedicineforum

You'll like it.

No verbotten topics.

No threats.

Francois

P.S. - I have very much appreciated this site. I've made some wonderful friends who are serious about getting off opiates. But, in the end, we're Americans; we're not kindly disposed to censorship. Like that practiced here concerning IBOGAINE.

[cindi]

Now that's a drug I have never ever heard much about,,,,and I have been working as a Nurse since 1981 and as an aide since 1976.....on an oncology unit in the  late 70's what about MS contin..have you ever tried that?  maybe Oxycontin tid and then something like oxyIR for breakthrough pain...did u look up the levodromorian in RXlist?  see if they even make the stuff anymore....I know I'm goin got have to do something else myself  my pain level is out of control lately  I have an appt. with a new doc but not until the 26th...there is one other doc i may call tomorrow..everyone wants me to see this doc to get pain pills,,,,I want to see him to get this pain TREATED and under control....not pain pills shoved down my throat (ok well, not exactly shoved)but the reality is how long can i live on pain pills,,,I need treatment etc....anyway try rxlist.com,,,love to all  cin

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

It's name is Levo-Dromoran(levorphanol tartrate), made by Roche. It's a synthetic analgesic comparable to morphine and stronger than Demerol at much lower amounts(2mg).  It is about as effective orally as it is IV. Apparently, it can be used before, during and after surgery due to it's compatability with many anesthetics.  Whether it's generally available at pharmacies, I don't know.  It may be similar to Dilaudid from the sounds of it.

Hope this helps you some!

J.B.

[Shea]

hi there,

i don't know much about it but i am also trying to research it. I remember you mentioned it to me in an earlier email. If and when i get any info i will be sure to let you know.

May you find peace

Shea

[in recovery]

i feel that the drug has been very abused and the goverment should of had more control of the drug known as oxy.i am a recovering addict from oxys.it has almost destoryed my life and has done the same to my love ones!i want to know who is responible? it takes someone who has had this problem to understand what im talking about.and why don't offer treatment    instead of jail time?yes i am very concern and upset! has anyone had this problem from oxys?

[in recovery]

i feel that the drug has been very abused and the goverment should of had more control of the drug known as oxy.i am a recovering addict from oxys.it has almost destoryed my life and has done the same to my love ones!i want to know who is responible? it takes someone who has had this problem to understand what im talking about.and why don't offer treatment    instead of jail time?yes i am very concern and upset! has anyone had this problem from oxys?  thank you

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I agree with some of what you said.  How did you get into Oxy's in the first place?  J.B.

[radioboy74]

Is there a high addiction to Tylenol 3?  I use to take Lortab, Tylox, Percocet - is there any resemblence with Tylenol 3?

[jule1]

YES they are all in the same family although tylenol with codeine is not as strong but the potential for addiction is still there.  Percocet which is oxycodone is supposed to be the strongest but I think that Hydrocodone which is in Lortab and Vicoden is just as strong in the same dosage.  Oxycontin is straight oxycodone without the tylenol in higher doses and timed released.  So please be careful with all narcotic painkillers!!  And also Ultram which technically is not a narcotic however it is what I became addicted to.

[GingerLee]

Jbear- I wish that I lived in your area but I live to the south of you.  Today was just a big blurr. I am going to write to you at your aol address tomorrow. I really do need to run a question or two by you. I also understand the Ultram thing, I danced with that demon too! I have such an incredible tolerance now, I am sure sometimes when I am nodding out that I won't be back, always to wake up and start all over again.
Thank you for your strength, I have none of my own.You do not know how very greatful I am to you and everyone else here.I hope one day that I might be able to comfort you a fration of what I have gotton from you.

[Telby]

I am unable to into treatment although I do have an outpatient counselor and meetings.  I am addicted to oxicotin and snort about 40 - 100mg per day.  I know I will be sick but would appreciate any tips on getting through or what I am in for. Telby

[Telby]

I have been writing but posting down at the bottom.  I guess I don't know my way around this type of forum very well.  My ongoing saga of oxicotin addiction and trying to get stable enough to detox.  Just writing about it is a big help for me as it has been my secret for so long.  I figure also the process of thinking and typing might be good exercise for my poor old drug soaked brain which has been out of practice thinking for a long time.  I have appreciated reading of all of your struggles, victories, and suggestions.  I am now pushing my vitamins and  minerals to hopefully build up my system and am trying to keep my oxicotin use at a minimum of 40mg per day until I can lower my tolerance and then step off.  I have been in and out of addiction most of my life and this last dance with first heroin and now oxicotin has got to be my last.  I want to be normal, feel normal, be able to make plans, be able to trust myself and get out of this mess.  I will continue to check in throughout my days.  Hope this note finds readers well, Telby

[Witchywoman]

Hi Telby,
I'm glad you are reaching out, and that you realized that it is best to post up in earlier threads..many folks (including me) don't check posts way far down.

Narcotics addiction is something many of us here struggle with, and can relate to your desire to get clean.  I'm glad you've gotten some good information from other posts about nutritional supplements etc, and I hope we can keep giving you the support to get clean.  Sometimes just writing about it is enough to help you get through each day, staying on the path to recovery.

Please let us know how you are doing!

love,
WW

[Telby]

So nice of you to respond.  I did mention in a lower posting that I was thinking about taking Naltraxon which is an opiate blocker that causes immediate withdrawl.  Because it is heavy duty stuff (they give it to folks who have gone out with an overdose to bring back) I am lowering my dose of oxy to no more then 40mg per day.  I won't take it until I have at least 24 hours clean but I understand it takes you immediatly through withdrawl physically.  I wondered if you had heard anything about it.  There are places that charge thousands of dollars for this "rapid detox" but my friend has it in pill form.  It's time for my nap but I will check in later.  thanks again for being out there, I am amazed how much it helps to communicate about this.  always, Telby

[Witchywoman]

Hi Telby,
I'd be very careful with taking the Naltrexone without medical supervision. I hear it has some side effects and can be really rough on the body.  Be sure the opiate is completely out of your system if you do decide to take it. I recently heard of someone who had not taken any opiates for 24 hours but there must have still been some in her system, 'cause when she took the naltrexone, BAM~!! she felt extremely ill and had to go to the ER.

The rapid detox treatment centers use very high doses of inravenously injected naltrexone while the patient is under general anasthesia, so they never conciously experience the withdrawals.  Taking Naltrexone in pill form is different. Just really be sure there is no more in your system...honestly I think it takes more than 24 hours, 'cause the meds all have a half life.

Anyway..I'll get off my soap box now, maybe someone with more medical knowledge can give you more info as well.

Take care, and I hope you stay with us!
love,
WW

[jule1]

Hi there how are you doing today.  You should definetely write me at my address ok!!  Just want you to know that I am thinking of you and remember coming here for help is a huge step in itself OK!!  Love Jules

[Telby]

Thanks for the advice.  I am a little nervous about naltraxone as your right it is heavy duty stuff.  I will wait longer then one day for sure and I will take very very little, if I do it at all.  Maybe if I get through two whole days I can hang in there and see it through.  It is not the first time I have had this sickness so I know what to expect but I really want this to be the last time.  I never feel good anymore, with or without meds - just doing simple tasks is painfully difficult and I my days are a waste.  There is nothing fun about this, there is no euphoria, only going from feeling crappy one way to feeling crappy in a different way.  As they say in AA I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired.  Forgive my spelling, my brain is not hitting all gears for sure.  Thanks for the advice and support.  I will continue to write and hope for the best. Telby

[Zazzy]

Hi Everone!  
Do any of you know of someone who has gone DEAF because of hydrocodone?   It's been an awful five years for me.
Two months ago I read in the L.A. Times about a woman gone deaf like me and that research is being done about this.  I contacted the reporter and she e-mailed me back right away.  She also put me in contact with two other e-mail addresses, two more deaf like me. I started out with increasing noise in my head (tinnitus) and within six months was deaf as a post.  The ENT I went to just gave me more Lorcet and added tons of Valium to quiet the "Freight trains in the tunnel" noise but I don't blame him since by then my pursuit of the drug had reached career proportions.
     I had a dreadful withdrawl and de-tox two years eleven months ago and I believe only the surrender to God's Will removed the obsession then after years of trying alone.  I am DEAF still though and with this current research know this is permanent.
   I am SO HAPPY, joyous and FREE since I've been sober the deaf thing, as life changing and bleak as it is, doesn't diminish the Love but it's hard finding others like me.  Y'all are out there I know so let's talk here!          Zazzy

[Witchywoman]

Telby, keep hanging in there...I remember my own days of realizing that the meds were no longer helping my pain or giving me euphoria..they were just making me depressed, helpless and disfunctional. They were a prison, and that is when I finally woke up and decided to stop the cycle.  Please keep us posted on how you are doing, and let us know how we can support you. Sometimes just writing helps!

Zazzy, I'm so sorry to hear that you suffered hearing loss due to the hydro!! I've been very curious about this issue. I've been off hydrocodone for 2 and half months, but I still have ringing in my ear that comes and goes.  I was not on vicodin, I was on vicoprofen, so I wondered if without the tylenol the hearing loss potential would still be an issue for me.  Did you loose your hearing while you were still abusing the hydro, or did you loose it once you had stoped? Was it progressive?  I really would love to hear more about it, as I'm afraid that even though I've stopped, I may have damaged my hearing some with it, and don't know where to turn for information about it.
I'm very impressed with your ability to still extract joy and love out of life now that you are free from your addiction. Your attitude is wonderful!
I look forward to hearing more of what you have to say, and hope you can answer some of my questions.

love,
WW

[jule1]

Zazzy - look in the archives here I remember not too long ago some people posting here about their hearing and taking narcotics.  Congratulations on staying clean we need to hear sucess stories like yours to help us.

WW - I have been taking Vicoprofen that has been my new demon when I was doing my belly dancing lessons I felt so much soreness in my upper abdomen could all the ibuprofen be a cause of this?  Did you ever experience anything like this?  Thanks you are a special friend to me love Jules

[Zazzy]

Thank you Witchy Woman,   I'm glad you're off the stuff.
  If as you say the tinnitus comes and goes I suspect it won't get worse.  If I had known I'd go deaf from Hydro would I have quit?  I don't know.  It was not suspected as the cause at that time but then I didn't consult experts either.(I thought I had buthis adding 30mgs of Valium daily for another eighteen months plus even more Lorcet produced such alarming results the denial was simple.   By the last month I'd gone from 115lbs to 89 lbs wass so oblivious and foggy headed my license was pocketed by a cop that should have sent me to ER or jail but sent me on my way to my "doctor's appointment" instead. A couple weeks later I was in ICU.  The nurse there wrote out "It's the tylenol in the Lorcet...."  causing deafness,   but research now seems to hold the hydro responsible and I am, as they say, profoundly deaf.
    Maybe Dr. Steve or Thomas know of this phenomenon...???

[Witchywoman]

Hi Jules,
I don't think that the ibuprofen would cause muscle soreness in the abdomen.  The warning signs of gastric problems due to excessive ibuprofen (or at least the signs that I know of) are blood in the stool and pain on eating.

My guess is that the work out of the ab muscles in the dance class made you sore, but if it continues, definately get it checked out.

People can take more ibuprofen safely than tylenol. I take 600 to 800 mgs of ibuprofen a day for my back pain, and sometimes it upsets my stomache a bit, but so far no major problems. I do worry about it sometimes though.

Are you going to keep up the bellydance?

love,
WW

[Witchywoman]

I wish we could find out the ultimate truth about whether it is the hydro, the tylenol, or the combinatin, that causes the deafness!

How much hydro were you taking Zazzy, if you don't mind me asking?

I think this is a very serious phenomena, and I really am glad you are willing to talk about your experience with it.

Anything more you can share with us, about how much you were on, and how you eventually got clean, would be great.

thanks so much,
love,
WW

[Zazzy]

Hi again WW and Jules,
      The computer is real new to me!  How do I get to the Archives?        Till later, Zazzy

[butterbean]

Hi, I never heard this until you posted about being deaf from vicodin.  I too have increasing hearing loss, and the more I think about it the more I know it must be the vicodin as I did not notice the hearing loss until about 2 years after beginning taken the drug.  I am now in day one of going through withdrawal again, and do not want to use it anymore, but, how do I deal with the pain without it?  I need your help, all of you.  I am alone and don't want others to know what I have done to myself.  I know many people who are taking narcotics for pain, as they tell me, but they never seem to be going through withdrawal like I am.  I tend to use more than specified.  Also, I do have a lot of pain, and for years doctors gave me motrin, etc , but, none of this helped until I started taking vicodin 6 years ago.  What can I do, go through life with this pain of addiction, or pain in my back that is chronic and keeps me from doing things without the meds.  I am tired of t his cycle of using vicodin and then withdrawal.  I really want to be me again.  also, the hearing thing!  Is this what happened to mine?  Just another reason to stop using narcotics.  I hope to hear from you soon.  Thanks for your help.
Butterbean

[Witchywoman]

Butterbean, I am in a similar situation to you. I have chronic back pain that sometimes flares really badly, but most of the time I can manage to live with it. I still prefer the freedom from the pain of addiction.  But, if I could manage to take medication for my pain as prescribed, or just as needed, without falling into abusing it, I would.  I can't. Or at least, I don't think I can.  I tried many times to take it as prescribed and not abuse it, but I kept on abusing it.

I don't know what the answer is for you. Maybe talk to your Doc about whether there is a form of pain med that you can take that has less abuse potential.   Do you abuse you pain meds, or just take them as prescribed?

For someone to suffer pain when there is help available is inhumane. I don't know what your level of pain is, so I can't really  know what is right for you.  Do you think you can take your meds for pain without abusing them?

So far, with the research I've done, hearing loss from vicodin only happens with people who take very large doses over time.

love,
WW

[butterbean]

Thank you WW for responding.  I don't think I can take them as perscribed.  I used to, but, now, because I don't get that good feeling I take too many.  Especially since going on Paxil, I feel no euphoria at all.  When I took the vicodin all I did was feel sleepy and I had to take more than perscribed to even get that feeling.  I don't know why I continue to want to take them when I can get the perscription filled when they really are doing much of nothing for me now.  I guess it is the addiction and the fact that I am alone.  I am in a long distance relationship, so I have no intimacy really in my life.  I think I could give them up if I did.  I don't want to use them again after going through this withdrawal.  What helps you to keep from using them after so long?  Thanks for your advice.
Butterbean

[Zazzy]

I used and abused Lorcet (Vicodin) in extreme amounts for over two years.  Previous to that time I'd been prescribed Lorcet and/or Vicodin for a herniated disc, L5, and the pain seemed to increase as fast as tolerance to the drugs.  For the last year of using I limped so bad I had to use a cane just to walk back and forth to my mail box.  At first I was convinced I needed more   and more to cope with pain but at the end, (and I was a whisper away from the end) real pain was more desirable to live with than dying.  Actually I gave that decision up to God's Will.
     A week into recovery I threw the cane into the trash dumpster deciding to give "not dwelling " on the pain and a mantra a try.
My own story sometimes reads like I surely made it up I guess butI no longer used a cane or support corsets and took ever increasing baby steps to walk and stand up straight.
     Jbear, Jules, I checked out the Archives.  The only mention of hearing loss is that someone associated with marijuana.I must tell you the research I've spoken of exists and is reported upon out here in the L.A. Times about PROFOUND DEAFNESS associated with hydrocodone.  Tinnitus too i experienced until it worstened and progressed.          Zazzy

[ssfr]

hey telby- i sure can relate to everything you said- having been through the merrygorounds over and over again- (or as yogi said- "its deja vu all over again")-
anyway- i am also from applachia- which unless you are from here- you just couldnt understand the unique problems we face- being from here- you certainly understand what i am talking about- it is just different than being from the big city- here in wva i see what you are talking about everyday- ( i am referring to your post further down in the forum)- it is really sad what addiction has done to so many here- good luck to you and God bless you -

[Telby]

How nice to open up and see so many coments after my last message.  I never heard about hearing loss but I can tell you that my vision has been significantly impaired.  When I was first addicted to heroin I would have blurred vision when I was dope sick and then I noticed that every time it never came back all the way.  Since I had also reached age 40 I figured my perfect eyes were getting old but now again with the oxi addiction that my eye sight is getting worse and worse.  I am amazed at the deafness link and I give my admiration to you for your fantastic attitude at such a serious consequence.  
   This is the first time in all of my drug abuse that I have felt such severe depression and hopelessness.  I failed a drug test at work (after 20 years) and now am on Family Medical Leave to get sober.  I will have to go back and when I do I have to sign a "last chance contract" which means one dirty screen and I'm gone.  I am the main support of my family and I am scared to death.  I am really afraid I'm going to loose everything because I can't seem to get off of the ride.  I feel like I am wasting away and I can't take the steps I need to take.  It has really helped to write to you all and I can't thank you enough for your kind words and stories that sound like my own.  I have always been a big believer in the power of prayer and I haven't even done that lately but tonight I am going to - I really understand the words powerlessness and surrender like I never have in my life.  I am scared to death that I won't be able to recover and that I'll loose who I really am, the real me will disapear.  It'slike a bad dream as I watch all that I love slip away and all I am doing is watching.  I want to shake this demon off of me for good.  I always fought going into treatment for all of the bullshit reasons, my family, money, whatever but I think maybe I better start thinking about getting some real help.  Anyway, I don't want anyone to worry that I'm suicidal because I'm not.  I imagine I sound like I am but I swear I am fighting to stay alive not die.  I want to live, nothing fancy, just live like a regular person.  thanks again for the support, it helps so much to read your words and to know that I am not alone in the world.  God bless you guys, Telby

[butterbean]

WW, Zazzy, thank yu so much for your support and comments.  I know I have said this before, but, I truly am doing it now, I am never taking these narcotics again.  My withdrawal is kind of bad this time, I want to live, and I have to go to work today.  I thought about it a lot last night, as I got no sleep.  I have too much too live for, and I want to be myself again,whether I always like that too shy person or not.  I am not going to put anything in my body again that is poison, I feel like these narcotics have poisened my body.  I am still going to take the Paxil for a few months while I get through this withdrawal good, but, then I want to stop it too. I have been reading on the internet that there is severe withdrawal from paxil.  Is this true.  The doctor gave me a booklet on paxil and it said it is not addictive.  What is the truth?  Please talk to me while I am going through this withdrawal now and I will stay connected to all of you, as I need you.  Like I said, no one in my life knows anything about my being addicted or really even taking this medicine.  I need all of you right now.  Thank you so much.  
Love Butterbean

[Telby]

Well you are an inspiration to me.  I am trying to build up the inner resolve to kick my habit so I give you a lot of credit. Remember this will not kill you but the drugs can. The times in the past that I have actually gone through with total withdrawl I tried to remember that I would not feel this way forever and every day is a day closer to being through it.  There is a lot of good advice about detox in this forum and you'll find someone is always on the other end as you know.  I to think of narcotics as poison and I believe the devil is the dope man, there is nothing I know of that sneaks into every part of my being and takes away all that is good and decent.  The less we think of ourselves the stronger the drug becomes.  I hope you will continue to write about this experience and be easy on yourself.  Someone told me once that for the first few weeks at least when I am drug free I should ignore any thought I may have. Chances are it is the drug talking to me and any idea will be a bad one.  Everyday clean the drug gets weaker.  I hope I can do what your doing.  best of luck, Telby

[Witchywoman]

Butterbean, you asked me what helps me stay clean now that I am off the meds. Well, one of the main things that help when I feel the cravings is the memory of how bad the withdrawals were.  I keep a journal, and during my withdrawal week, I wrote every day. I reread that when I get cravings and it REALLY helps me remember why I decided to stop.  The other thing that helps is looking at how slowly but surely my life is improving. Being out of the constant fog of narcotics, my body feels better overall, I have my natural energy back, I have my sex life back, my relationship with my husband is much better because I am "present" again, rather than off in laa laa land. I just look at the overall positive progression of my life, and compare that to where the narcotics would take me again, and the choice is clear.  The back pain definately is also there, so day by day I have to figure out how to handle that.  It is not easy, and it may not be the right choice for everyone, but for me it is the right thing.

Now with this evidence that opiates can cause hearing loss, along with the constant ringing in my ears, that gives me EVEN MORE incentive to not use.  I'm just praying that any hearing damage I may have gotten from it gets reversed, or at least does not progress...but I've been clean since the end of August and I still have the ringing.

Butterbean, you can do this. So can you Telby. Just take it five minutes at a time if you have to. Get all the support you can.
Take the supplements in Thomas's recipe, they really help. The paxil is good to take right now, as it will keep your seratonin levels normal.  Paxil is not a drug that is abusable, as it doesn't create a high, but it is a med that creates physical dependance and withdrawal does happen if you stop it suddenly. If you slowly taper off it when it is time to go off it, you should have no problem at all. Just don't stop it all at once.

Telby, if you can get into treatment or rehab, I'd really suggest you go that route if it is available to you. You have so much at stake! I know exactly what you mean about feeling like there is a demon slowly taking your true self away. That is how I felt. Like who I REALLY am was slowly fading away. The good news is that you can come back..you can find your path again, and return to your life.

love,
WW

[Wizard]

I just wanted to back up what Witchywoman said. She's right on the money with her advice. Take it a day, hour, or minute at a time and you WILL get through it. When the times get the toughest and you want to reach for the bottle of drugs, reach for the keyboard and log on. You will find that the action of doing so and the anticipation of reading from the forum will sometimes overtake the whispers of the "Dragon". When I was going through it I found that if I started to post the whispers got softer and I got preoccupied even if it was for a few minutes. You see the cravings come in waves also. Replace the waves and it gets better after the first few days. Stay on the path and you will reach that Light of freedom. Remember that the "Dragon" is the one that kills your will and life force, not the withdrawals! I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers. Good luck to you both and you WILL succeed!
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz

[Zazzy]

Good Morning!  
Since this incredible sobriety of mine, deaf, dense,
and finally myself, there isn't a day I don't replay the big crash and burn almost three years ago.  Believe me I'd
de-toxed before but staying clean and sober just wasn't
in the Big Picture for me yet.  Pain may have pushed
me into decisions I knew were stupid, (unhealthy at
best)several years before that but, hey!, I'd started out as a kid smoking dope and consuming jugs of cheap Red Wine!
    Depression!?  ?!!!  Telby it seems you have insurand as the responsible person you are.  It seems too your work is giving you
the chance to spend some time with yourself and to get
the help you need.....you just MUST do it.
     The DEAF thing is just my most noticable damage
from all this;  by six months after de-tox I had full blown
complete CATARACTS too.  Imagine deaf and blind!
I don't have insurance and for twenty years I'm told
"NO WAY lady" if I apply so I found enough stuff to sell
and get my eyes fixed.   I hope you, Telby and Everyone are OK today.           Zazzy

[butterbean]

Thank all of you so much for your continued support.  I am praying everyday that I can do this, and I know I will this time.  I am so proud of yu WW for doing it. Zelby when you get tired of it, you will too, I know you can.  I will continue to post here to let you know how I am doing, and I hope all of you will let me know how you are.  You all give me strength to do this as I cannot do it alone.  Thank goodness for all of you.  
Love Butterbean

[Zazzy]

Hi Dr. Steve,
I'm not real sure we have specialists in addiction here in L.A. that are aware of some damages I have as a result of hydrocodone addiction.  The shrink I see a couple times a year is quoted often in the media as an addiction specialist but those rticles are ordinarily about the practicing addict/alcoholic, not the afteraffects lasting in recovery. (In fact he thought at the time of my Big, unsupervised, cold turkey from hydro and Valium if I'd survived seizures, et al alone I'd probably regain my hearing while I mended under his supervision.)
     It's the Hearing Clinic here that is putting the equation together since they invented the Cochlear Implant.  Now my mission in life is to get a C.I.; it's the $60,000 or more to get one that seems to be a barrier.  Being the Medicare definition of disabled is the direction I'm pursuing.  Do you know of others who've become DEAF from hydrocodone?    Zazzy

[butterbean]

Hi everyone or anyone who can answer this question.  This morning is my second day into withdrawal and recovery!  I woke up feeling nauseous and very shaky. I never had nausea before or these shakes.  How long before this goes away.  I am going to stay clean this time, but, it is so hard to go to work and feel like this without anyone knowing.  I need to hear from anyone who can help and keep me going until I get through withdrawal.  I really am going to stay clean, and for all of you who are in recovery, bless you and keep it up.  I know it must be the best feeling. Have a great day!
Love Butterbean

[Wizard]

Congrats on day two! It sounds like you have made your mind up to do this. Great job! Butterbean, I started shaking and feeling totally yucky like having the worst case of the flu and then some, on the later part of the second day myself. The shaking, chills, nausea and the awful "runs" lasted about three to four days and then started to subside. I think the "runs" and total body aching with the headache lasted a little longer, maybe a week or so but not as severe. From there it got WAY better and I haven't looked back except to just remember that I didn't want to go through it again. I went to work through out the detox and just shrugged it off as the "flu" which kept everybody away from me. I think you are or will be reaching the "hump" today so hang in there and keep us posted. Take it a minute at a time and KNOW that you WILL make it this time. It sounds like you are doing it right with the HOT baths and all. Are you using any of Thomas' recipe? It REALLY helped. I'll keep you in my prayers as always to be sure. May God bless and keep you always.
Power & Light 2 U,
Wiz

[butterbean]

Hi Wiz. Yes, I do have Thomas stuff, but, didn't take it yet, because I am on Paxil and am unsure if I am sure if it is safe.  If you or anyone knows, let me know.  I feel much better now.  I didn't have the diaherra too bad as I took Immodium .  I do have the chills and shakes a little still, but, one thing is that every two weeks or so after I run out of vicodin , I have been going through withdrawal.  I wouldn't do anything to get more than the doc ordered as I am a professional and didn't want trouble. I also was mad for using them in the first place.  Maybe I didn't get the runs too bad this time because I only took for two weeks before detoxing.  But, guess how much i took, which is insane and that is why I know I have to stop now.  I took 120 Percocet and 120 Vicodin in 15 days.  That is 240 pills.  I could have killed myself or never woke up. I took so many because the Paxil somehow made it where I could not feel the euphoria i wanted so I took 4 pills at a time which only made me sleepy.  I am so glad to be alive.  Thank you for all you said today.  I am truly grateful to you and everyone who is praying and there for me!  Telby, how are you??   Hang in there.  We are going to do it!
Love Butterbean

[butterbean]

Hi Ginger, I put Telby in today instead of yu, got mixed up on names.  How are you doing today?  I feel much better and so will you.  WW I did buy some Benadryl and Ihope it helps me sleep better.  I feel alive today, first time in a long time!!! Wiz keep up the good comments, as WW and Ginger and all do.  We need you, and I know you all need us too!  WW, I didn'twant to go to work, but, I had no choice.  I have plenty of comp time, sick time, but, I run an organization.  The boss, so to speak.  Now you can understand!  I did miss some days in the last month, just because I was depressed from using, but, now I am getting better, I know it.  I will do it, I know I can, just like you and Wiz and others.  Thank you all so much, much love to all of you kind folks.
Love Butterbean

[Wizard]

With that attitude you can't lose! If you feel better today then you are on the right path for sure. Each following day will bring something new to you Butterbean. New clarity, new hope  and continued support from us. I'm so excited for you right now as it was like yesterday for me and WW going through the same feelings. Emotions will start to surface that may seem alien to you because they have been so clouded for a long time. Let them come forth no matter what kind they are for your brain is starting to function on it's own again. Keep your resolve and stay on the path. The Light is before you and it is NOT out of reach! I think I'm going to go outside and holler HOORAY for you. It's a great day to be alive for sure. Well, I'm going to get back to work for now but I'm just a keyboard away my friend. Here's some Wiz Dust to sprinkle on your new found self...*****..... :-)
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz

[butterbean]

Thank you so much Wiz.  !!!!!Smile!!!  You are great.  I am so glad that I am feeling better.  And I am going to do this!  Stay clean!  I feel very lucky to have friends like you guys!  Have a great night and evening!
Love butterbean

[Tucky]

Hi!  My Nickname is "Tucky"! I'm able only to key just a few minutues this evening, but just HAVE to key something...I don't know how I found all of you...I guess looking up "fiornal/cod" (i.e.addiction...am I addicted?  Why does my heart tell me I'm taking too many, etc)...and there you were.  You all seem so incredibly HONEST...and I do need help.  I do have pain, real pain, but not enough to compensate for the amount of pain rxs I'm taking...I want to stop.  Stop taking every Rx I have, even blood pressure medication, although I know better than that...guess I just need a "confidential support group"...Self esteem?  Zilcho....(taking Serzone)....married, but feel unloved...etc., etc.  Feel I'm of average intelligence...I love people...love to hear, try to help w/their problems, but talk about my own?  Extremely difficult.  Am I on the path to at least TRY to improve myself?  Everynight I go to bed promising "no pain pills tomorrow"...Every a.m. I awaken to taking "well, just two to start the day w/o pain..."  The most I've taken is 8 (not everyday)...and have gone days w/o any (talk about sick for a day., i.e. withdrawal)...I know they're causing more depression than I have w/o them...I'll be back either later this evening or tomorrow...Any "beginners advice"?
Thank you so much for being who you are!

[Wizard]

Welcome to the forum Tucky. Reading your post brings back many recent memories as it could be any one of us really. From the little that you have written I can see some of the signs that told me ME I had a problem. The "I'll start tommorrow" and then waking to "I'll just take a couple this time". That was definantly me looking in the mirror for sure. I can certainly answer your question: "Am I on the right path?". YES! The fact that you took the first step of "looking" and then followed up with posting tells me you took the right first step on the path to freedom. You will find a safe haven here with us to be completely "Honest" not only with us, but more importantly with yourself. I think collectively between here and the other great forum there is probably several hundred years of Use/Abuse/Recovery experience. We will talk with you, walk with you and cry with you all the time giving you a shoulder to lean on if you need it. So, if you have got the "hankerin" to take the next step we welcome you with open arms and hearts. By the way I am not a Dr. but I wouldn't stop taking your blood pressure meds without a Dr.s advice. I'll be looking forward to hearing from you again.
Power & Magick 2U,
Wizard

[Telby]

Hey Butterbean, so good to hear you had a good day. Good for you!  I on the other hand did not have such a good day, I have not used since yesterday morning and mostly slept today.  Lots of cold chills and hot sweats.  Went through a rampage of looking for a pill in my house that does not exist. Wacko. By the way that type of junkie behavior only pushes the sickness up a notch.  I have no idea what tomorrow will bring, I go from being determined to being desperate.  I'll check in tomorrow but I wanted to let butterbean know how very very cool this is.

[butterbean]

Telby, good to hear from you. I did the same thing everytime I went through withdrawal, looking all over the house for a non-existent pill!  We tell ourselves that just one will help us through the withdrawal, but, it just extends it !  You can do this, just as I, and Gingerlee and anyone who wants their life back.  We will be OK.  We are all different, but, unique individuals and were put on earth to be who we are.  We just need to love ourselves more!  Hang in there today, I will check back in tonight after work.
Love Butterbean

[butterbean]

Hi Tucky.  You have come to the right place.  Everyone here has been so great to me, since I found this forum a couple of months ago.  They are the ones helping me through my withdrawal now and they will help me stay clean.  I too, did all that you are doing now, and when I tried to take less meds I would wind up taking more.  I too, have a lot of pain , but, I do not want to be addicted to pain meds anymore, so I will learn to deal with this pain another way.  Hang in there.  If you want to go off pain pills you can, but, check with your doctor about your blood pressure meds, etc.  Good luck.
Butterbean

[Telby]

I am sneezing four times in a row and feeling pretty shakey. I do not promise what today will bring.  Day two is always the hardest for me to get through.  I did sleep through the night which is a blessing.  I think butterbean sounds like she is going to see this through and I give her much credit and love. I will check in later today.  Telby

[butterbean]

Telby I sneezed a lot too, but, it will stop in a few days.  My eyes also watered a lot and had this tickle in my throat all the time.  I made it through day two and you can  too!  I will check in with you later this evening to see how you are. Just hang in there.LOL
Butterbean

[Wizard]

My friends, see my post to you above! RAinbows and Wiz Dust on you this WONDERFUL DAY!
:-) Wiz

[butterbean]

Hi everyone!  Day 3 is gone almost , and I feel a lot better.  Some diaherra, not much, achy a little, but, I am not going back to that Dragon, Wizard.  I just don't like it!!  All of you hang in there with me, we can do it.  I am  so happy to know I am not alone!  I will check in tomorrow as it is 8pm and I just got in from work.
Love Butterbean

[Telby]

Well I didn't do so good.  I was so nervous because I had to go to my parttime job today and it took all I had to pull it together.  Water hurts my skin so my shower was torture.  I got there and sat in a meeting for two hours feeling like hell and trying to sound sensible.  When I got home a truck pulled up and a fellow trouble maker said "hey remeber the money I owe you? Well here are two 20's to make it up".  So how fast did I race into the house and get those two oxicotins in my system? You win, pretty fast.  I'm sorry butterbean, I was prepared to get through this night but I was not prepared for curb side service. Do I feel great? No I absolutly do not feel even good, this **** is poison and to tell you the truth at least when I felt sick this morning i also felt just the tinies little bit of pride which I do not have now.  You started this before me and you had an excellent attitude which I did not.  I hesitated to tell you what I did but then if I lie on these pages what does that leave me. Butterbean I think about you all of the time and I read every word you write, i have a very good feeling about you and I have one about myself to.  I will get there, I know I can because I see so much success on these pages. Please don't give up on me and do not DO NOT give up on yourself.  For anyone who is new at the opiate addiction nightmare I can tell you that once you experience dopesickness you will continue to have it and the more you use the faster you get sick and the sicker you get.  There is no going back to the beginning and starting over, once your brain registers a requirment for this family of drugs it never ever forgets and it becomes less patient when you stop using.  Oxicotin is the deadliest pharmacutical I have come across, like heroin in many many ways.  Your body develops a tolerance very fast (five to ten days even when not abusing) and withdrawl symptoms will occur.  I get slammed because my first addiction to these type of drugs was heroin so I have a hell of a time kicking.  I have done it before and the next time I will do what I never did before, swear off totally for life.  I always kept it in the back my mind like a lover I fantasized about getting back together with, now I know there is no love in this poison.  It is evil and ugly and robs us of all that is decent and turns the world into a fog of black and grey.  I did not have a successful day but I am not giving up, I will not settle for this life.  Just like the devil, the drug does not want to let me go and I should of anticipated a test catching me off guard.  Next time I will be wiser.  I am going to invest in Thomas's detox and follow his directions, I believe in him so I will believe in it.  Sweet butterbean please write and tell me your alright and that I didn't do the wrong thing telling you about my set back.  You don't let anybody get in the way of your light, you sound so good and so healthy, keep your eye on the prize.  Do as I say not as I do.  love Telby

[butterbean]

Telby I was just heading off to bed and decided to check the forum again.  You did not do anything that we haven't all done before, but, as you say they are poison to you, don't take any tomorrow or the next day, just keep trying.  You will do this.  I know we both can.  The addiction and cravings are so strong, but, my love for my family, children and life are stronger in my mind, and I will not let these demons  overtake me anymore.  I always told myself every since I was told my dad was an alcoholic that I would never abuse anything, and until my doc gave this meds to me, I never did.  I used the excuse that I hurt so much to make me think I could keep using to get that feeling of euphoria.  Legal or not, they destroy you little by little.  I just hope my liver , etc are not too damaged.  I never abused alcohol or any drugs until 7 years ago when my doc first started me on  vicodin.  It was little increases over the last 7 years and I started taking all 3months supply in two weeks that made me feel I had to stop.  Telby, I know you have used longer, but, if you will just hang in there and don't let two oxycontin set your mind back, you can start each day anew, until you know it is the time to really stop.   The more I listen to you, the more I know what a wonderful and kind person you are.  You are still in there with fighting this and that is the first step.  Stay in touch with me.  
Love butterbean

[Wizard]

Telby, you go up and read your last post to Butterbean and all. Read it like Butterbean wrote it to you instead. When you get to the bottom of of it go right back and read it again. Now, think of this...........YOU wrote it because the knowledge was in YOU. Now, take your own words as advice because I couldn't say it any better. Don't look at what you did today as a setback. Look at it as a lesson. We all have done the same thing at one time or another. Some of us have done it WAY MORE times then once. It's okay for the simple reason that instead of lying about it, you wrote it here and by writing it here you were telling YOURSELF the truth. That is a step forward on the path to the Light of Freedom. You've heard it before "Truth will set you free". You haven't sunk a ship, you just prolonged it a simple day. Only one day. NO problem! You did it, You owned it. Now go on forward.
We are still here to lean on. Remember I said we will walk together and talk together, I also said we would cry together. Consider it done and now lets walk again. I think it was a Moody Blues song that said: " Face piles of trials with smiles! It riles them to believe...Keep on thinking free".........Works for me :-)Bless you this evening and may God's Peace and Light shine on you always!
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz

[Wizard]

Gosh Butterbean I couldn't have said it better. I guess you were posting when I was to Telby. Congrats on another day! I gotta run for tonight but you have a peaceful slumber and I'll be praying for you all. Till tomorrow, may you find Rainbows and good Wiz dust in your dreams :-)
Power 7 Magick 2U,
Wiz

[Telby]

How sweet and kind you all are, I keep expecting someone to tell me what a jerk I am and there you all are being wonderful. I think I do know what is important and I do believe every word I said to butterbean - I have always been able to get outside of myself for other people but tend to draw a blank when it comes to me.  I was always the optimistic one, the glass was always half full even in my darkest moments.  These past few months are my first real experiece with despair, I have even found myself thinking my family would do better without me.  No plan, no real staying with that thought but for me that is major!  I'm the one who gives speeches about suicide as an absolute unacceptable act if you have one single soul anywhere who loves you, it shocks me when my mind even touches the subject.  It also tells me that I am at a dark place where I have no buisiness being.  I have this really beautiful daughter who is almost fourteen and she must wonder what is up with me compared to other Moms, she is also on that scary adolescent bridge where she will be making choices about drugs and that terrifies me.  Genetically she is set up for addiction and I can't imagine watching her go down the road I have walked.  So yes, I have plenty to live for and I do know what I must do - you all also understand that making the choice is just the first part, following through is another matter.  There is a comercial on TV about an investment firm that shows a really long dark tunnel and finally there is the light and as it ends you go into the light with the tunnel behind.  Not a novel image I know but it has been impactful for me when I see it, I see myself in my minds eye walking through headed for the opening with the light.  You people have been such a life line for me.  When I give advice I am not following please don't think I am a pain, it helps me to write down what I know to be true to butterbean because I don't want to forget what I know, I don't want to loose myself.  So bare with me and God bless you. Telby

[Wizard]

Goodmorning or afternoon to you depending where you are located. Telby the thought of you being a pain never entered my mind. I think of you as being myself not to very long ago. You see I too knew all the right things in my heart of hearts, but following those things wasn't quite that easy. It took me seeing that I was not alone in this hell we create for ourselves. It took me not blaming everyone else for the situation I was in and then it took me LOVING myself enough to get myself out of the hell so I could love others. Thinking thoughts of ending your life even if it's for a very brief moment is nothing unique to despairing souls when caught up in the "Dragons" lair. I too had thoughts of ending the torment of the "Dragon". I think a lot of us have had the thought more than once. Then I had the thought of eternal darkness without the faces of my girls and wonderful wife. I thought of them left behind wondering why and if they could of done something. I thought of the people I new had been able to walk the path of freedom and escape the claws of the "Dragon" and I thought if they could escape and be free so could I. So can you.......I found this forum just in time my friend. I found that I could write about anything that was crossing my mind and I could come here and cry for help and support without the fear of being judged or condemned. I found that the negative thoughts got less and less prevalent as I got closer to the Light of Freedom. So can you Telby.........Take my cyber hand and step forward again on the path to freedom. If you stumble then take our hands again and we will walk forward again. As long as there is the will to succeed you WILL make it. It is not easy BUT it IS ATTAINABLE. Write what you know as it reinforces your belief in what is right for you. Speak your truth and listen to what it tells you. Trust in Faith, Keep your Hope and above all DO NOT DESPAIR. Despair is the little death that eats away at the core of your will. Let it go....May God bless and Keep you and shed eternal Light upon you always. I shall keep you in my thoughts and prayers today my friend.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz

[butterbean]

Hi Telby, I am glad to hear from you today.  I was worried about you some yesterday, being too hard on yourself.  Just remember addiction is a disease and is never easy to get rid of.  but, when you are really tired of dealing with the disease, you will make the decision to stop.  I feel much better today, although I did have a mixed drink last night, and I swore that I wouldn't drink any alcohol either.  It wasn't much, and I am not angry with myself, because I told myself it is one thing at a time.  I never drank much,but, the pain was bad last night and it was Friday and I was home alone so needed something.  I will stop drinking all together too, once I am totally clean from the narcotics.  One thing that helped me to make this decision and try to stick to it this time is my children.  They are grown, but, I don't want them to know they have a drug addicted mom.  It would hurt them so much.  I have one child who I think drinks too much , but, she is young and thinks its something all young yuppies do.  She knows her grandfather was an alcoholic so I know at times she must be concerned.  Because of my worry about her, I have to stop so I can be threre for her if she needs me.  Do you understand.  What you said about always being there for others and never self, is me too!  I also give presentations on many topics and no one knows I am one of the addicts.  Thank you for hanging in here with me and the others Telby.  Your kindness and your love for others will help you with the help of us and a higher power.  Have a great weekend and don't worry.  You are not a bad person because of the addiction, we are just human.  Take care.
Love Butterbean

[Telby]

I haven't thanked you for your time, attention, and beautiful support.  You are such a loving soul and truely an inspiration for me.  Your right there is hope to be free of this self imposed prison I am in.  Nothing much has changed in fact I recieved notices in the mail of more money I owe thanks to my irresponsible actions but because of this forum I feel better today.  I can tell my feelings are pushing their way up out of the locked box I have kept them in.  I hope that means my tolerance to drugs is going down enough that I can see the bottom where my heart is.  I have managed to clean up my house a little bit and when I start to feel empty I come back to this forum and sure enough someone has come back on in my absence.  You are clearly someone who has seen the dark side and managed to find your way back into the light, believe me your light is coming right through this computer screen and into my heart.  Rather then look at all that is wrong I am trying to find the miracles in front of me and once I look there they are.  I hope the day will come when I can be on the other side and be able to give even a little of the inspiration you have given me.  I read over the postings and I am moved to tears at the genuine kindness and understanding that is so freely given.  The process of not falling into the cess pool of regrets and guilt and staying in the present is major exercise for my brain.  I just realized this is the first day in a long time that I haven't spent the day in and out of bed, major victory not spending a day with the covers pulled over my head.  I will continue to check in and again thank you for everything. love, Telby

[Wizard]

You've put a smile on my grizzled face this afternoon Telby :-)
I've noticed how articulate you are and can see how much you have to offer the world. As each day goes by you will find more and more of your feelings surfacing as your brain fights to regain control. It's a good thing. I found myself during the first couple of weeks, being overcome with emotions that I hadn't felt before. I would be taking a shower or something and they would just flood over me to the point of tears. But you know what? It felt GOOD. I just let it flow out knowing that I was on my way down that path and I wasn't gonna look back till I reached that Light! Now I look back to REMEMBER....keeps me honest really....You just keep coming and posting because when you do, you not only help yourself but you help all of us...You help me remember, you help those in recovery and you even help those thinking about taking the first step. Yes my friend, you have put a smile on my face and my thanks go out to you for that......Stay on the Path. Stay strong and Focused and know we will be with you to the finish line!
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz

[Wizard]

Nice to see you today also my friend. Another day under the belt and that much closer! Your enthusiasim is contagious :-) I'm excited, you excited? LOL It's a great day to be alive for sure. Keep the focus and you got it whipped! I'm always thinking of you my friend, always thinking and always praying! Rainbows and Wiz Dust to you this weekend!
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz

[Telby]

Rough night I'm afraid which has carried into the morning.  I put my poor body through so much with this.  Last night when I was reading Wizards postings I kept getting an Instant Message from a friend I have not seen in over twenty five years.  Anyway, it was funny and I laughed out loud at the screen. It was a good moment with Wizards beautiful words and my friend being silly.  I am not laughing this morning but I will survive and hopefully make it to the finish line soon.  Coffee might help I'll check in through out the day.   love, Telby

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Telby, you are a jerk! Does that make you feel better?  I'm just kidding of course, name calling accomplishes nothing. I'm sorry to be butting in here like this but I haven't been posting for a while and am trying to catch up on things.
  
I'm in some trouble myself today.  Eleven days ago I was taken off of Vicodin and Percoset and was prescribed MS Contin for intractible pain.  I was praying that I wouldn't get into abusing the new medication which is controlled release.  Well, yesterday, curiosity got he better of me and I chewed my morning dose. About three hours later I felt like doing it again and so on throughout the day.  I'm only supposed to take two per day as needed for pain.  I ended up chewing up a three day supply!
Even with 18 years of sobriety and abstinance and AA/NA behind me I find myself just as stupid as I ever was. I feel like a jerk today but hopefully I won't repeat yesterday's binging. We can all learn something from our mistakes. The price I will have to pay will be going without for three days before I can refill my perscription. Plus the shame and guilt I feel from stealing from myself just to get a good buzz.





J.B.

[Telby]

Well from one jerk to another (kidding) I to have had trouble with instuctions on taking meds.  one every four hours turns into four every hour.I loved AA and I do think it saved my life but of course I held on to my love for narcotics like a secret friend.  Every time I have them in my hot little hands it ends up the same way, never a happy ending either.  If I ever get myself out of this jam I hope I remeber that the only way for me is to stay totally away from the nasty stuff.  I am thick headed but I am in more trouble then I have ever been and truely scared I still won't be able to cut the bond between me and the dope. I have nothing to take today and although the day looms in front of me I will sweat my way through it.  JB, best of luck to you and remeber to stay close to this forum for support, it helps me more then I can say.  love, Telby

[Wizard]

Okay you two jerks, (just kidding) I'm a jerk too.I went out last night around midnight to watch the big Leonid meteor shower. It was freezing on my Motorcycle sooooooooo Wiz gets the idea that maybe he should take a side road to the local biker pub for JUST ONE little "horn" to warm his little cheeks.....Well............one led to two, two led to...well you get the picture......Wiz feels like his flying monkeys dropped him from 5000 feet on his head this morning..whew..I feel like ****.......It's all about choices. I made the choice to "FEEEL Nice" Now that choice turned into "Pay the Price". Did I know better? Hell ya I did. Did I do it anyway? DUHHHHHHHHH....The meteor shower is going off in head now.....LOL Well it was spectacular last night. Won't happen again like that they say till 2099. Think I'll be over the rainbow by then.
J.B. my friend it's always nice to see you here. I hope the new meds do help you even if you lost 3 days worth, maybe you can stretch out a couple of days to make up for it? I don't know, I'm always thinking. Anyway I was a hoping you would show up so I'd know you were hanging in there. I think about you a lot. I pray that your Thanksgiving week goes well for you my Brother.
I gotta tell you man, I THANK GOD I didn't know about chewing those Oxy's when I was taken them.I was eating enough for 5 men at a time as it was. If I knew about chewing them it would have killed me for sure. Kips Angels were on my shoulders at that time I know. Well my friend you are always in my prayers.

Telby, you just keep coming back to us like I told you. Whatever it takes, no matter how long it takes, we will get you through this as long as you keep trying. I know all about that "secret love affair" with the "Dragon" It was my secret for years. Even my wife of 27 years didn't know untill this last time when I finally "kicked" it. Even then she only found out because I told here. After the shock went away, she was very supportive. God I love for that. She certainly could have just took the girls and said adios. But she didn't bail on me and we are not going to bail on you. Stay on the path and look for the "stop signs" that will be put in front of you. Listen to them. If I would have listened to mine last night, my head wouldn't be HURTING SO much right now LOL. Remember CHOICES. We all have to make them. Which one we make is the difference between staying on the path with the heart or tripping down the trail "whoop ass". This morning, I'm whooped. LOL You see, I always convinced myself that a "Bloody Mary" was not a drink of booze, but a meal instead like a salad. Thing is, I only fool myself.......the food I got this morning from it is "food for thought". hee hee.
Have a Magickal morning and a better day! I'll be in and out most of the day...going to see HARRY POTTER through bloodshot eyes with my kid. LOL
Power & Magick 2 U All,
Wiz

[butterbean]

Telby, hang in there.  Some days are worse than others. Just like Wizard I drank some this weekend, but, will not do it again for a long time. I didn't drink much, but, none is better for an addict.  My legs hurt real bad today, and it makes me think do I really need that pain medicine, but, I know I have alternatives , so I will choose an alternative to deal with the pain. I will be here reading this forum everyday, so hang in there with me.

Wizard, don't beat yourself up for one night.  I drank this weekend too, not a lot, but, too much for me as I said I wasn't going to do it.  Sounds like you have a great supportive wife and family.  I heard the Harry Potter movie was great!  Thank you all for all you are doing for me and others.  We will continue to help each other.
Butterbean

[Wizard]

Hi there my friend! Not to worry about me beating myself up on last night. Of all the things in my life that I've abused or have been addicted to, Thank God alcohol is not one of them as far as being a BIG problem. Quite frankly I never liked it that much. I've been mostly a once in a while social drinker. Every now and then though like last night, I get to feeling good and toasty and it sneaks up on me and WHAM the next morning I'm hating life! LOL You play, you pay......Sounds like you still got your head in the right frame of mind Butterbean. You keep on the road to success! I'm gonna go back out the door to do my "honeydews" while my wife just left to get the Harry potter tickets, so have a great rest of the day and I'll check in on ya all later!
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz

[skipper]

Wizard:
never trust a man who tells you he is going to a meteor shower. not
unless he is going on a motor cycle. well you certainly shot to the
top of the list of those among us who had a "WILD" weekend! I'm
glad your not the kind of person to beat yourself up over something
already happened. just keep moving forward and the angel will al-
ways be upon your shoulder. my weekend has been nicely dull, until
this morning. i've spent the day on the verge of coming down sick
with something...what a waste.

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[Telby]

I've had worse days but man I've also had better.  I was so cold all day and now of course I'm a furnace.  I had a bunch of anxiety so I took one of my Mom's ativan's which I hope will allow me sleep tonight.  I prayed alot today and managed to somewhat function.  I'm worried about tomorrow, I know I won't be well and there are places I have to be and things I have to take care of.  When I'm dope sick even the simplest tasks are very difficult.  I'm only sneezing twice in a row tonight which I take as a good sign being down from four.  Any little ray of hope I'll take.  Hey Wizard, it sounds like you had a great time to me.  Saw the stars and made it home and able to take your kids to the movies, there have been worse nights I'm sure.  I feel like I am ninty years old sitting here tonight, the drug has sucked the life out of me - hope it will come back.Chills and chills and not many thrills - give a good thought for me. your in my heart, love Telby

[Telby]

With goo in my eyes and snot in my nose I did want to send my love and to tell you my thinking about your leg pain.  I think for awhile (like about 6 months) you and I (God willing) will have numerous pains - our pain and pleasure system is out of order because of the narcotics so when the drugs are gone and our brains figure it out for real, there is pain.  The challange of which I believe you are up to and the jury is still out on me is to tolerate the discomfort and not run back to the medication until you give your body time to get back to working order.  I am not a Doctor but I am a junkie and I know this stuff.  You remember cunning, baffling, and powerful, well add patient and multiply by 100 and you have this special class of the dragon. It will creep into our dreams and into our joints during the day but not forever (right Wiz?) and you will not have such a difficult transition because you are still more healthy then sick with this stuff.  I will be moaning and groaning for some time to come but if I can get that far I will be at peace which will be wonderful..  I just want you to keep doing what your doing and stay strong.  I learned a long time ago after heroin, methadone, percocet, percodone, dilaudid, and now oxicotin - the best pain medication is Advil for me.  The others go to the pain in the soul, Advil and Nuprin actually take my pain away.  This babbling is not to dismiss people with real pain issues - I just know it takes awhile to sort it all out.  For example as I sit here tonight I look and feel crippled and broken but no xrays would find what is wrong with me.  Only you wise souls know what ails me tonight.   Sleep well butterbean, this will be a great week for you.  I think I'll just mosey down to the bathroom on these inspirational notes, yuk but love to ya all - Telby

[Wizard]

Hey Kip, the days about over, you feeling better or did "on the verge" turn into full blown? Hope not for your sake...I hate being sick man.........I went and got my flu shot to ward off any bugs...stood in line for 2 lousy hours to get it too. Better work....I'll send the Wiz Dust your way with some good vibes my friend. I DID have a great weekend too!  Hey every one, if you like Wizards and magickal stories...GO SEE HARRY POTTER! It was way cool! especially if you read the book. For once they really followed it. You have a  good evening Bro!

Telby & Butterbean, the day is over and you get to look forward to taken another step down the path tomorrow. Remember one step at a time. Telby if your sneezing is settling down then I take that as a win! Try not to worry about stuff to far in advance. Just break it down to hours or even minutes if you have to. I remember even when I was "jonesing" if I showered and moved around even though I didn't want to, it DID help me feel a little better once I started. Not only that but it made the time go by quicker. Before you know it, another day is down and gone.
Keep up the hope and the praying. I know that got me through the hardest of times. I'll be keeping all of you in my thoughts and prayers as usual. Have a magickal evening tonight and think good thoughts.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Wiz

[butterbean]

Just wanted to say hi before leaving for work.  I hurt in my legs so bad the last couple of nights.  I kept thinking is there anyway I can take my meds as perscribed.  I really wish I could because dealing with this pain is horrific.  I finally got to sleep about 1am after taking more iburophen.  Anyway, I am trying to hang in there.  Have a good day to all of you.
Butterbean

[Telby]

Well the new day has begun and although I am moving slow I seem to detect an ease in the sickness.  This guy who was my major source of oxi's went into detox last week and called me this morning.  He also feels like **** but we are determined to see it through.  I am going to go all the way this time, I know I won't feel worse then I do right now and I don't want to start over again.  I got my daughter up for school which is not easy nor pleasant and now as Wiz suggested I am going to try and stay up and at it all day.  Sleeping kills time but I always wake up feeling just awful, so I am going to keep moving.  If I can get through my responsibilities today it will be a victory so keep good thoughts for me and keep those prayers floating above. love Telby

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Yes, keep moving ahead! Being inactive not only bores me but makes me do awful things as well. Inactivity is depressing.

I've got degenerative joint disease and peripheral neuropathy and some nerve damage in my spine. I dread nighttime because it seems to get worse(pain)the longer I remain in bed. If I keep moving and doing things, it's almost bearable. Maybe it's a mind over matter thing with me/us?

I haven't chewed any pills for two days and just went on about things as normal and everything seems to be fine. With Thanksgiving coming up in three days there's plenty to do and I don't want to be a Zombie when our guests arrive. I hope all of you are doing okay even though it's a Monday!

Take care,

J.B.

[butterbean]

Telby and J.B. sounds like you are determined like I am.  However, I have tremendous pain right now with my back and legs, and it makes me remember when 6 years ago I started taking pain meds and the relief it brought after almost 15 years in pain before that.  I wish I could take without abusing, but, I don't know if I can.  I am miserable with this pain, but, when I abuse vicodin, I am more miserable with myself.  Should I try to take the meds only when I have this pain, or should I stay clean of all narcotics???  That is a question I really need help with.  I just want some pain relief.  Take care and keep up the good work.  Telby you sound much better, I am proud of you and J.B.  We will see this through.
Love Butterbean

[Telby]

You people with chronic pain are really hero's, It must be very difficult to stay drug free or healthy with drugs when you have something really wrong.  I give you tremendous credit, I walk around crying and all that is wrong with me is that I'm a drug addict who hasn't had any drugs in a couple days.  Living with pain everyday must be so hard and you must have a special reserve of strength.  Yes Thanksgiving is a good reason to keep going in the right direction.  The other night my mother asked me what I planned for Thanksgiving dinner and I looked at her like she was out of her mind, I couldn't imagine even thinking about that let alone doing it.  Now I must be somewhat better because I know I will do the holiday thing and it will be done with out being loaded this year or worse, being so sick I wear my bathrobe all day.  I let Christmas go so badly last year I think that was what got my attention that something was really wrong with me.  I had always been able to pull it together before but not in the past year, this stuff beat me down and I could not function at work or at home.  I will never be Donna Reed but I can do better then I've been doing and if I don't stay away from pills I will do worse.  Today I have to sit in a room with grown ups and do some buisiness, I was so worried about it yesterday because I felt so rough but I think I can pull this off today.  I have a few hours to get myself together which is time I need but I think I can make it today.  It is really important to remind myself about what I am doing and why I am doing it, I have to keep going forward away from the fog and the fear.  I don't want to loose my family, my job, myself and if I don't go all the way I will, I'm too old to bounce back so there is no choice.       Later, love - Telby

[Telby]

I am starting to regress I'm afraid, feeling very shakey and focusing my thoughts more on drugs.  I keep pulling myself out of that mind set but I am getting really anxous.  Some cabin fever for sure, I will be getting out of her in about an hour and I think that is going to help me.  I did manage to wash my hair and will take some time to make myself look presentable but I am coming apart.  I keep trying to remind myself tomorrow will be better if I don't fold up today and use somehow, I have no meds in my house of course but that does not mean I can't hook up.  I like to stay on line because no one can call me and if I can get myself together and get out of here I think the coast will be clearer.  A pill would take this feeling away but I would be right back at the beginning again and I want to see this through so bad.  IT's like a big part of me says that but there is this grinding somewhere else inside of me looking for dope.  I really believe I am hafe way home free I just have to hang tough and stay focused on getting all of the drugs and sickness behind me.  This should not be so hard, but I guess if it wasn't hard there would be no problem.  Whatever that means. Well I have to change my clothes and get ready so I will check in upon my return.  Yeah fun, love, Telby

[Wizard]

Goodmorning people! Congrats on not chewing J.B. I know how hard it is when your pain is chronic and the desire is strong. I'm going to speak only for myself on this subject of chronic pain. It is not a crime or something to be ashamed of if one needs meds for a serious chronic condition. But speaking only for myself, I had reached a point after my last back surgery, where I had to determine where my pain threshold really was.You see I hated being a slave to the opiates and yet if I didn't take them in excess I was in constant pain that SEEMED unbearable to me. I had to make a choice and stick with it to be completely off them to re-evaluate my pain or percieved pain. I found that after a few weeks of being clean that I still had back pain and sciatic pain. But the beauty of it FOR ME was that it wasn't nearly as high a level as it was when I was in a constant state of iterim withdrawel. The choice for me was that my qualitiy of life was much better in a lessor state of chronic pain treated with Viox and/or high dosage of ibupropen than it was when I was chasing the "Dragon". I believe for ME the pain was multiplied ten-fold when I was abusing my meds. Only you yourselves can determine what is tolerable and what is the better choice for quality of daily existance. Pain is Pain! Pain is real. Each of us has our own threshold that we can or cannot live with. We each must do what is right for us. For me what is right is to be Opiate free at this stage in my life. I am a much happier man now then I was when my only thoughts and desires were to chase the "Dragon". I just couldn't know that for sure until I had become completely free of it's claws. Nobody knows what it's like unless they have walked in our shoes down the path of opiate bondage. Telby, you have made a big leap forward just getting up and moving today. Try to keep that goal and focus. It WILL get better as you progress. Butterbean, only you know in your heart of hearts what is the right answer for you. Taking meds as prescribed for the pain is something I have never been able to do. It has always been a mindset with me that if one is good then six is better. I know my limits of restraint. That comes with being totally HONEST with yourself.
J.B. my brother, I told you before and I'll tell you again now, if there was a way for me to take at least some of your pain and carry it for you I would, as I'm in a much better place now then I was not too long ago. I cannot take your physical pain from you, but know in your heart that I willingly would and if I can have at least some of your mental pain then please give it to me and know I am here for you. I offered you my e-mail address if you need it. That still stands....May all of you find Peace today as we get closer to Thanksgiving and our goals of Freedom.
Power & Magick 2 U all,
With much heart felt love,
WIZ

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

It seems like a safe place to be way down here on this board with all the bickering going on up above about Dr. Steve. I offered my opinion about these matters long ago and left it at that.

Wizard, you are a marvelous person and don't be surprised to get my e-mail soon.  I agree with what you say about the pain issue. I've been experiencing this first hand for over a year.  With some reservation, I'll say that right now I'm better off with the pain meds than without them. I'd also like to think that my condition will improve somehow. I'm praying for that miracle to happen! Hang on, Telby and Butterbean, you are in my prayers too!

J.B.

[butterbean]

J.B and Wiz, thanks for the advice.  I am hoping this pain will go away, but, if not I may try taking a med now and then.  I have told myself if I abuse them, they are in the trash and I will try to get doc to find me something that will help with some of the pain.  WW haven't heard from you in while, are you OK?  Ginger where are you?  are you OK?  Everyone just keep knowing you are great people.  It seems some of the warmest, kindest and emotional people are the ones who get addicted to drugs.  Maybe we should do a study on that!  Think we could get a grant???  I want to say that in my job I work with a lot of therapists, counselors, etc, but, the most empathatic people I know right now are the people I have met on this forum.  I feel like I have many friends helping me and surrounding me with love.  Thank all of you so, so , much!
Love Butterbean

[GingerLee]

I am here butterbean, I am listening for now, but I am here. Thank you for asking.

[butterbean]

Ginger, just keep posting, if only one word, one sentence.  I am here for you.  Sometimes I just read too, and feel so drained that I can't post.  Then I do a few things and come back and post, because while I am thinking of you, you are thinking of helping me!  That's what good, kind hearted people are all about.  I know many people in the small agency I work for that are taking the same meds I am and they don't seem to think or act like they are addicted.  Of course, i can tell which ones are.  So see, WE, on this forum are the strong ones, the ones who are admitting we are hurting from this and want help.  We get this help from each other, because we care deeply.  Otherwise we would always read and not post!  Thank you Ginger for coming back to us.  Have a good night. Let me know you are OK.
Love Butterbean

[Wizard]

J.B., first off I respectfully agree it's safer down here :-)
I also believe in miracles my friend. But I also believe they only happen when you do not give up Hope, keep your Faith and do not despair. That's a tall order, but I believe we are a tall bunch! I'll look forward to that e-mail, whenever you feel a "hankerin". :-)
Butterbean, whatever you decide is right for you, know you'll get support for it as long as it comes from your heart. You see we reap what we sow, I have sensed nothing but love and compassion from you from the very first post that I read. You've got a big heart my friend. I know you will do what it tells you to. Listen to the Truth and follow the path to the Light. One more day, one more hour, one more minute closer to Freedom. By the way, it would be interesting if we got a grant to study us addicts LOL. A while back I found that a large majority of us here on the forum had Catholic roots. I mean it was amazing how many of us were or are Catholic. No disrespect is intended, as I'm still a practicing Catholic....maybe it had to do with all the knuckle cracking I got with the rulers in parochial school?????
Telby, you hanging in there? Keep the the focus my friend. Your posts are filled with the right advice and it looks like you putting up a fight like a Warrior! Stay strong and know we are with you like your wingmen! Leave your computer on line if it stops your connection from calling.....anything that works is positive to me! You're in my thoughts and prayers along with with all the "Angels" here. The day is almost over so another one bites the dust!
Power & Magic 2 U,
Wiz

[Wizard]

***@****

[Telby]

Is it almost over?  Is this hard old day just about done with me?  Well I made it another 24 hours drug free and I managed to show my face to the world and pulled that off.  I did allow myself to fall asleep in the late afternoon which was a mistake ( I should of kept moving Wiz) seems my sickness catches me when I sleep in the day.  I felt real real sorry for myself most of tonight and pouted because I wanted drugs but thankfully that drama has also passed for now.  I can actually believe I am going to do it this time, just gotta keep myself safe a while longer until I get stronger.  I stand at the window looking for the dope man saying "don't come over, don't call" but I'm looking - but not very hard.  I still want this really bad and I think way off in the distance I see a light.  Hey - butterbean you have helped me so much, what ever you do it will be the right thing.  You are a very strong person and I know you'll get the answeres you need.  This morning my teeth were killing me, really hurting. I thought, wow Dentist!!!  Pain meds!!! But then I remebered about myself and had to admit that I knew my teeth  would feel better as I got better so I didn't play that hand today.  Now at 10:35pm, my teeth don't hurt and I got through. Thank you all so much for being on the other end of this nightmare with me, I have felt your support and love every step of the way.  I still got miles to go but I feel much better then I have in a long time.  Wizard you are my King and I love you to pieces, thank you for being there.   I will check in tomorrow and if I have trouble sleeping I'll be back tonight. God Bless you - love, Telby

[Witchywoman]

Hi Butterbean,
Yes I'm still here. I just am hardly ever online over the weekend, (I give my weekend time to my husband) and while today is my day off, I spent it going to a Doc apt, running errands, and generally taking care of myself and life.  Thanks for thinking of me though, that makes me feel good.  At times I feel that I spend so much of my energy focusing on trying to help others (that is my fulltime job at work as well) that I forget to let folks know that I am still a vulnerable person, with problems and needs.

I'm very worried about myself, and spent a large portion of the day either crying or fighting back tears.  Though I've been clean 3 months, I started to have hearing problems toward the end of my using, and for the past 2 weeks I've had bad ringing in my ears. I saw my Doc today to discuss it. He is sending me to a specialist, but I am scared that I've cause irreprable, progressive damage to my hearing due to years of hydro abuse.

So, for the moment, I didn't have a lot to give to others today. I'm scared. Angry. Ashamed.
I'm hoping the ringing in my ears is due to something else, or if not..that it doesn't progress to extensive hearing loss.

For anyone out there who wants to get clean and is having a hard time doing it, let this be a motivator for you. We've had one poster (Zazzy) tell us that she did indeed go deaf from hydro abuse.  If you can, use this as a motivator to stop.  Had I known about this a year ago....
Well, if wishes were horses I"d be riding on a sandy Hawaiin beach right about now.

sorry for my down mood...
thanks everyone. I need you all.
love,
WW

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

WW, I was intrigued by your mention of deafness caused by hydrocodone usage. Is it confirmed? I've had tinnitis for maybe two years that comes and goes and my doctor tells me that it's probably caused by high blood sugar. Another doctor told me that hypertension may be to blame. Today the ringing is not there and my blood sugar is 128 and my BP is 137/87. But I've had no hydrocodone for almost two weeks, just the MS Contin(morphine). My ears did ring a lot when I was taking high doses of hydrocodone though, especially when I was in withdrawals. With the controlled release of the med I'm taking now, things seem to be on an even keel compared to the abrupt ups and downs of the shorter acting narcotics like hydrocodone and oxycodone. As I've said time and again, all I want is a state of equilibrium in my life where everything seems to be safe and secure....and pain free! I suppose that's a lot to ask for as a human being? Somebody said above that they went fifteen years in hell before discovering a med that offered some relief. Now that's a hero in my book!

My hat is off to WW, Wizard and all who have been able to stay clean for any length of time through a great deal of effort. I was clean for many years and I know that it takes guts and an almost insane desire to stay clean. As long as you share with us here, you will be rewarded tenfold in life! As for me, life has changed me into what I am today....somewhere out there looking for help and too proud to admit it.  When all is said and done, I'm still an addict. But this is not as depressing as it sounds as there is always hope and life can be rewarding even in it's darkest moments. Despite all of my faults and shortcomings, I'm still lovable and worthwhile...I keep telling myself that as I pray for us all. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

J.B.

[Telby]

No kidding some of the very best people i have ever known were and are drug addicts, maybe that's why we hurt so bad.  I think to the outside world we look self serving but really our hearts are sooooo big we can feel love even when we're on enough dope to put down an elephant.  I have been reading in other posts about this hearing problem, that is very scary.  I am beginning another clean day, keep expecting to wake up feeling great but so far that hasn't happened.  I'm going to stay on track and maybe get out of the darkness for good this time.  Me and those pills are just a deadly combination and that is not about to change.  I hope I never suffer the kind of pain many of you have to endure on a daily basis, I would be in big trouble if there was really a reason for me to get these drugs.  I will be on and off line through out the day so stay tuned.  love, Telby

[Witchywoman]

JB, as far as I can tell, yes, the relationship between hydro abuse and hearing loss is indeed confirmed.  There are small opiate receptors in the inner ear, that when damaged, somehow also create damage to the very fine hairs inside the ear, and once those are damaged they can not be repaired.  

Do a search on hydrocodone and hearing loss, or vicodin and hearing loss to see the articles I pulled up. Doctors haven't made the connection until recently because people hide their hydro abuse.  I saw my Doc yesterday and he has referred me to a specialist who knows more about how to asses it than he does.

Small amounts of hydro over time don't seem to do the damage. Large amounts over time do.  Some people are more susceptible than others, but it the damage can manifest months or even years after the long term abuse has occured. Sometimes, if you stop the meds right away, it is reversible. Sometimes it progresses no matter what you do.
If you take an appropriately presribed ammount for pain, it does not seem to cause the damage.  It seems to be more the hydro than the tylenol that does it.

Very scary.  I hope I'm ok.  I'm so upset about it, I have to just try to put it in a corner of my mind to get through the work day, and pray that I am one of the lucky ones in whom it reverses, or at least does not progress...or that it is unrelated the hydro...but, I did start to have hearing problems while on the hydro, so I'm guessing that is the culprit.

The articles didn't say anything about oxy, so I don't know if that is associated with hearing loss as well.

love,
WW

[GingerLee]

I know this is unrelated, but since you are polling... I am Catholic.

[Telby]

Nice to meet you Ginger Lee.  Actually it was the Wizard who shared with us the Catholic connection butI wish I had thought of it.  I have noticed that it seems there are a number of us who seem to work in jobs that are either human services or something closley connected to helping people.  In the past few years I have seen so called helping professionals who are wonderful with the client walking in the door for help but turn nasty and negative when a co worker or a peer has the nerve to develope a problem such as drug addiction, physical disability, or mental illness.  The extra preasure of worring that you can loose a job or the respect of co workers is really a burden and I don't believe it's just me being paranoid.  I've had two close friends who worked with me commit suicide and it was all the more disturbing because they were both surrounded by professionals in the mental health and addictions field yet they called no one, told no one, asked no one to help them in their darkest hour.  Nor did the people around them see the despair they were in.  I had tried very hard to help one of these people but I admit that I was stunned by the second death, I sure didn't see any indication of a problem.  I have also moved through the halls where master level and above clinicians worked with me while I was strung out on oxicotins and no one ever noticed or if they did they did not come to me - I often felt invisable and alone in a place where I should of felt safe and understood.  More then that I felt fear, I was terrified of these people finding out how sick I was, afraid they would put my job in jeopardy and I was too ill to fight for myself.  I am not blaming anyone, I am a good little actress and went out of my way to keep my secrets a secret.  I just find it interesting how often in these postings people who are suffering make reference to working as, or with, or around therepists.  And as the Wizard pointed out there are quite a few catholics in the group, all the guilt maybe.         I did my Thanksgiving shopping today, spent a fortune on every fruit, vegtable, and you name it that I could find.  I really want to be able to celebrate the holidays this year, I was a wreck last year and it has bothered me all year.  My daughter is 13 now and growing up so fast I want her to have memories to take with her that are warm and sweet.  So I will cook and fuss and thank God for the multitude of blessings in my life.  I did not have a great day but it was fun to tool around Big Bear and fill my cart with so much.  I also splurged and bought a wonderful warm jacket with horses on it that I found on sale, just like a real person.  I also bought the ingrediants for Thomas's Detox Receipe however I could not find deprinyl.  The gal at the health food store never heard of it and I couldn't give her any information because I had never heard of it either.  Maybe someone can point me in the right direction as Thomas thinks it's great and will help with withdrawl.  It was a blast spending my money on legal drugs for a change - I will begin tonight.  My brain definatly needs some assistance as I have screwed up all my poor nero transmittors ( please forgive my spelling through out)  I am for sure not in full operating order in the mental capacity department, hopefully vitamins, minerals, amino acids will give me a jump start.  Another day under my belt-I hope I can sleep tonight as I had a very difficult night last night.  I love you all, Telby

[Wizard]

You are on the right path now my friend.......keep busy, keep focused and thank you...read my post above.
Sleep well my friend.
luv wiz

[enivid]

I've taken one or two vicodin a day for over a year, will I experience withdrawal syptoms (symptoms)?