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paws or depression
I have 90+ days clean from a two year vicodin addiction. End usage was 15-20 aday of norco. Im a little confused in regards to differentiating PAWS from depression. I still feel like im not feeling as good as I should be. Im in my mid forties which might have something to do with it. Anyone?
Yes, it' very true, *some* people can have life time damage...or simply were born that way. But the statistics on this are grossly misstated and miscalculated. Medico's and drug manufacturers would like you to believe that the statistics are at least 1000x higher than they probably are...the fact is, we JUST DON'T KNOW.
So let me ask you, which person are you going to be;
The one who takes a positive approach, assumes that this is a temporary state, and fight to get their mind and health back through clean living?
The one who says "I'll always be like this, it's permanent", and lives a miserable existence, choking on the bile of their pain, always bitter about how they're "damaged", and in essence, creating their reality and making it true?
Or the one who says; "Oh well, I'm damaged, always will be. So I NEED to take this methadone/vics/percs, it's like with a diabetic, right? You wouldn't deprive a diabetic of insulin, would you?" (stupid argument, by the way, if taken at face value).
TRUTH is relative. It's a slippery slope. I've NEVER met a truth that couldn't be disproved. Did you know that math, algebra, considered a "real truth", isn't? That another mathematical structure that explains the EXACT same principles of algebra while showing what we know as algebra is incorrect exists, has existed for centuries?
Our algebra was chosen over the other...probably because the guy who wrote it was more popular at tea parties. Or perhaps he did his first.
Be careful of stating hard truths, or wearing them like a shield against possibilities. They'll strait jacket you into a mind set, a way of being. It's one of the number one "gumption traps" that block achieving quality in life.
So let me ask you, which person are you going to be;
The one who takes a positive approach, assumes that this is a temporary state, and fight to get their mind and health back through clean living?
The one who says "I'll always be like this, it's permanent", and lives a miserable existence, choking on the bile of their pain, always bitter about how they're "damaged", and in essence, creating their reality and making it true?
Or the one who says; "Oh well, I'm damaged, always will be. So I NEED to take this methadone/vics/percs, it's like with a diabetic, right? You wouldn't deprive a diabetic of insulin, would you?" (stupid argument, by the way, if taken at face value).
TRUTH is relative. It's a slippery slope. I've NEVER met a truth that couldn't be disproved. Did you know that math, algebra, considered a "real truth", isn't? That another mathematical structure that explains the EXACT same principles of algebra while showing what we know as algebra is incorrect exists, has existed for centuries?
Our algebra was chosen over the other...probably because the guy who wrote it was more popular at tea parties. Or perhaps he did his first.
Be careful of stating hard truths, or wearing them like a shield against possibilities. They'll strait jacket you into a mind set, a way of being. It's one of the number one "gumption traps" that block achieving quality in life.
Ugh sorry link did not come out right...and I can't copy and paste cuz it's a PDF file. ANyway it says you can have many problems for a while and it takes they body up to 1 year to recover but brain functions and emotions can take up to 2 years. Long term opiate users, benzo, coke, amphetimines users etc can have effects up to ten years :(
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0oGkjvmRCdHA3oBkchXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE4bW5oaHBqBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNQRjb2xvA3NrMQR2dGlkA0NTMDFfNzkEbANXUzE-/SIG=13brf5g34/EXP=1193842278/**http%3a//medicalcenter.osu.edu/pdfs/PatientEd/Materials/PDFDocs/dis-cond/general/paws.pdf
And I want to thank you very much for one thing that you just made very clear to my thick skull...people here get mad because I come with the truth about addiction.......
Some here just want it to go away like a bad dream, and act like it never happened.......
Another how much clean time do you have? Is it ok to ask you that...?
Some here just want it to go away like a bad dream, and act like it never happened.......
Another how much clean time do you have? Is it ok to ask you that...?
I did a paper on PAWS at school and I don't want to scare anybody but if you do have paws after you stop using what ever you get back between 6-18 months is all your getting back.....
so sleeping, memory, many difficulties with cognitive processes.
I opened up saying "in most cases" and the healing process is 6-18 months after you stop using.
After that "in most cases" your stuck with it......
If the truth scares people well if you walk out in the street and get his by a bus guess what thats going to hurt......should our parents never tell us that when were young.......? because it scares us..?
so sleeping, memory, many difficulties with cognitive processes.
I opened up saying "in most cases" and the healing process is 6-18 months after you stop using.
After that "in most cases" your stuck with it......
If the truth scares people well if you walk out in the street and get his by a bus guess what thats going to hurt......should our parents never tell us that when were young.......? because it scares us..?
I m talking about anti depressants that have an immediate result, within a few days. They don't get their hooks into your system as much.
Anti depressants were originally designed as a short term thing, to help a person cope during a rough patch. These new types that take a month to take effect are counter productive to that. They change the chemical balance of the brain to such a severe extent that there's a severe withdrawal side effect if you stop them that leaves you an emotional wreck. Part of the reason for their existence is drugs are cheap, but therapy is expensive. Most insurances won't cover serious therapy.
If I learned one thing from my very short psych. residency it was the above.
You're at the point where you have to start working to get yourself back to normal. As painful as it sounds, you should be trying to do exercise, taking amino acid supplements, being careful with your nutrition, etc...
The LDN is an option if it's just not getting better. It's supposed to jump start certain chemical functions so your brain starts producing in a balanced way. I've never done it, mind you, but I've seen research on it that's very promising, and talked to a handful of people who had great success with it. All were 3-6 months into their PAWS when they did it.
Anti depressants were originally designed as a short term thing, to help a person cope during a rough patch. These new types that take a month to take effect are counter productive to that. They change the chemical balance of the brain to such a severe extent that there's a severe withdrawal side effect if you stop them that leaves you an emotional wreck. Part of the reason for their existence is drugs are cheap, but therapy is expensive. Most insurances won't cover serious therapy.
If I learned one thing from my very short psych. residency it was the above.
You're at the point where you have to start working to get yourself back to normal. As painful as it sounds, you should be trying to do exercise, taking amino acid supplements, being careful with your nutrition, etc...
The LDN is an option if it's just not getting better. It's supposed to jump start certain chemical functions so your brain starts producing in a balanced way. I've never done it, mind you, but I've seen research on it that's very promising, and talked to a handful of people who had great success with it. All were 3-6 months into their PAWS when they did it.
dont use and it will get better.........................slowly,
we took very strong drugs for a long time, we wont get over that quickly.
but in time we will heal, and then we get to live free.
its a fair trade.but not free.
we took very strong drugs for a long time, we wont get over that quickly.
but in time we will heal, and then we get to live free.
its a fair trade.but not free.
I thought most antidepressants were longer acting by nature. When you speak of shorter acting ones, which do you mean? Just curious..
Yes, he could have scared me but my usage period was shorter than he mentioned plus I have read quite a bit on it. Im just looking for the typical "dont use and it will get better" reassurence.
PAWS can happen to anyone who has developed and addiction and/or physical dependency. The severity and duration of it may depend upon the time and amount used, but it is not limited to only those with "severe" habits. It is not necessarily "permanent distortions" of the brain that "in most cases never heal". It is a syndrome or, constellation of symptoms that are experienced as the body transitions into functioning without the drug and its effects, and almost always resolves with time. Geez beach, you're gonna scare the hell out these people!
So are you saying that after the initial withdrawal period there are no residual effects for the non-hardcore addict?
You could try LDN therapy. It's been used for years with cancer patients an the like when they're taken off their pain meds. It's only recently been used for addiction treatment. PAWS is a tricky thing, everyone's different. I'm skeptical of the concept that the damage is life long, since there aren't any studies involving long term PAWS sufferers who went through it year after year. Most give up by the end of the first year and go back on their DOC.
Don't be surprised if you still have a few more months, but it will get better. You can try a short term anti depressant if you get desperate, but avoid any long acting, types that take "Weeks" before they start working. Those create a whole different addiction that's a nightmare of its own.
Don't be surprised if you still have a few more months, but it will get better. You can try a short term anti depressant if you get desperate, but avoid any long acting, types that take "Weeks" before they start working. Those create a whole different addiction that's a nightmare of its own.
PAWS in most cases only happens to servere users, addicts who get high for decades........
It can happen in less time but not usually.....
A few different drug Therapists have told me usually long time 30 yr Heroin users....is the most
common addict to suffer from PAWS, it is permanent distortions of the brain the in most cases never heal......and you suffer the W/D symtoms for life.......
It can happen in less time but not usually.....
A few different drug Therapists have told me usually long time 30 yr Heroin users....is the most
common addict to suffer from PAWS, it is permanent distortions of the brain the in most cases never heal......and you suffer the W/D symtoms for life.......
im in a similar place,43 years old, 6 months clean and still down a lot, im getting better but its slow, healthy eating and excersise help me, my guess is its just going to take more time for my brain chemistry / function to return to normal? ive read many people write that the body will heal if given an oppertunity,
hang in there, its better than the alternative
hang in there, its better than the alternative
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