percoset and/or alcohol

[Julie]

I have just discovered the fact that my 17 yr old teen recently tried percoset.  I know it is his intention to take the drug again and in conjunction w/ alcohol.  He is not aware that I know.  How long does the drug stay in one's system?  Can we, as parents, buy a drug test to randomly give him?  How dangerous is this drug?  How can we tell if he is under the influence?

[Frankinscense]

Percoset is simply put, morphine in a pill form. It is derived from the opium alkaloid thebaine. Also contains 300 mgm's tylenol. Known generically as oxycodone. Mixed with alcohol,death may occur due to your breathing stopping. It is fairly safe if used for a short time and for moderate to moderately severe pain. It is a schedule II narcotic.  Its abilty to create addiction is high. Hope that this gives you an idea what percoset is compared to other oral pain killers. Others I am sure, will give very good advice concerning this drug.
Dan..

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Yes, call the pharmacy and ask about a home drug test, they are available.  
One way to tell if he's high on percoset, look at his pupils(eyes).  They will be pinpointed.  He may also be very manic, mouthy, and slurring depending on how much is in his system.  He may have spells of vomiting if drinking alcohol with them- I sure do.  Nodding out in the middle of a conversation is a really bad sign as well.  You better get this boy under control quick before the law gets a hold of him.

[to BJF from Oxy Tom]

Hi Julie
Sorry to hear about your son, but the good news is he has a Mother who cares enough to notice and seek information about the drug he is taking.

Percocet is a combination of acetominophen (sp?) or tylenol, and Oxycodone.  It is a pretty strong narcotic pain reliever - not nearly as strong as Morphine, Demerol, Fentanyl, Dilaudid, etc. - but a big jump from Darvon/Darvocet, or Codiene; and a little stronger than Hydrocodone (as in Vicodin).  It is typically prescribed for pretty high levels of pain - such as the relief of pain after breaking a bone or bones, or after surgery or maybe child birth - and not usually more than one time/prescription, and usually 12-30 pills in the scrip, because it is highly addictive and pretty strong for someone with no tolerance for narcotics.

It is considered more dangerous by the law too - as an example, it is classified Schedule II, the highest group of 'legal' drugs, based on potential for addiction and abuse, with Morphine, Demerol, Diluadid, etc.  Only Heroin, Cocaine, and Crack (Schedule I) carry more severe penalties for possession.  (Penalties for possession of Schedule III and IV drugs such as Valium, Vicodin, Codiene, Darvocet, etc., are not nearly as severe.)

It's effect on people can vary - for most people it gives a warm, happy feeling all over, energy, and a pretty decent feeling in general.   It comes on strong, usually in 30-45 minutes, and the good feeling to new users can last anywhere from 2 to 6 hours or even 8.  

Alcohol i combo can intensify the feeling, but often makes a person sick too.  I dont have much experience here - maybe someone else does??

The narcotic in Percocet comes in many forms.  Pecocets themselves come in different strengths (2.5 mg Oxycodone, 5mg, etc.).  There's also Percodan - which is the same thing except it has aspirin instead of tylenol combined with the Oxycodone.  There's generics for both.  All are usually a little bigger than a straight tylenol, and can be white, blue, yellow - maybe other colors too that I haven't seen,  Name Brand says Percocet and the strength, but generics do not.  Cost of typically $5-10 each pill on "the street".

If he likes the Percocet, watch for Oxycontin - which is Oxycodone in a time release version (chewed up,it hits right away).  Oxycontin comes in strengths of up to 160mg of Oxycodone in a single pill (80mg or 160mg can kill someone without a high tolerance!).  They are tiny round pills, and say "OC" on one side, and the strength onnthe other.  10mgs are white, 20mg pink, 40mg yellow, 80mg blue.green, and 160mg is blue and oblong.  Cost is really high on these.  Hope he never tries them, because they are tought to get away from once started.

The downside is, the feeling is pretty good - but over time, it takes more and more of the drug to get the same feeling again.  Some say the good feeling you get the first time is never able to be duplicated - but I disagree....it just takes a lot more to get there...  It's definately an addictive drug, relatively expensive, and regular users become dependent on it pretty quickly.  Stopping taking it after regular use for even 3-4 weeks can lead to withdrawal, which can be like having the worst flu ever, for days or even weeks.  People dependent on Oxycodone may go to extremes to avoid this, and do things they never would consider otherwise to get the drug.  

Technically, the drug is out of your system in 72 hours - that's about how long a drug test will show it.  You might be suspicious if he is unusually happy and talkative.  When the drug wears off, he may sweat - even in Winter when it's cold.  These are some signs to look for, but not always present and not always the result of Percocet.  Like Dan said, pupils do get diolated - that's the only real givaway.

Deendence on this drug is a scarey thing.  Even though out of the system in 72 hours, for a regular user the mental addiction can still make you sick for a long time more.  



Even if your son doesnt become addicted, and only uses it a few times, it's STILL nothing to mess around with.  Look up the State Code for where you live on the Internet and read him the laws and penalties.  It;s scary, and Percocet is a drug the law focuses on.  Where your son may get away with a few Vicodin or Codeine, Percocet will get the attention of the law if he gets caught!

As an example, in my state if you possess (without a legit prescription) more than 25 times the daily dose (or 100 pills total), there is a MANDATORY MINIMUM 2 year prison term with no parole. 5 times to 24 times (25-99 pills) carries "assumed prison time".  As little as a few pills can still be a felony.

I hope I included enough about this to help you deal with your son and head off this before it becomes a problem.  Trust me, he doesnt want the problems that come along with the drug!!

Please write back and let us know how he is doing.  I'll say a prayer for you and him.  

Tom

[3-D to Julie]

Narcotics such as Percocet make the user itch a lot.  Watch him to see if he scratches his face a lot, specifically his nose.  Gives 'em away everytime.
    The trouble with the Narcotics is this: I was watching Loveline (a show on MTV that deals with sex issues) and on there they have an Addiction Medicine Specialist called Dr. Drew.  A caller told Dr. Drew that he had discovered a new aphrodisiac that made him last for 2-3 hours in bed.  As soon as he told Drew that it was a Percocet combined with a couple of beers, Drew got onto him and explained it better than I've ever heard it explained.  He said that it starts out with "Oh, I take a Percocet and I feel great and can last longer in bed" or "I can take a Percocet, feel great, and clean the whole house" and eventually the user gets to where he depends on the Percocet to do just about everything and wants to feel great all the time.  The same can be said with most narcotics.  As anyone on here will tell you it is a vicious cycle and it is NOT to be taken lightly.  If he has "discovered" Percocet it is just a matter of time before Oxycontin comes into the picture.  Tom put it very well in his post.  Just please please please, Julie, try to find a way to nip this in the bud before it goes any farther.  Be careful and keep hope alive.  3-D

[To sick and scared from Neena]

I personally have not done Percoset, but did the Vicoden ES in large amounts for approx 8 mos - year.  I also drank on them.  At first there is relief of pain and a feeling of general well-being.  You talk alot, and even clean house or decorate the house for Christmas, etc...soon it takes more than only one pill to get that feeling and down you go.  The withdrawals are Hell.  You will know if he suffers withdrawals, ie. FLU LIKE SYMPTOMS, but much worse, shaking, fever, vomiting, gagging, depression, loss of appetite.  Try to nip it in the bud now.  This drug is a demon and will take you down day by day while others sit and watch helplessly.  I have to go in for a liver test to see if my addiction did any damage to my liver.  Confront him, if he wants to know where he's going....tell him to ask us.   God Bless, Neena

[Julie]

Thank you so much all of you for the information and your kind words, many of which brought tears to my eyes!!  My son is an Nat'l Honor Society, soon to be Eagle Scout student, who is applying to some top notch colleges.  He has always been a Type A personality...very high risk.  I have lost count of the times we have gone to the emergency room/doctor for some injury incurred while he was pushing the limit.  He thrives on it.  I am sure he doesn't understand the possible, very serious consequences this "experiment" could have and like all teens, he thinks the rules do not apply to him.  Addiction, getting caught, etc. happen to others...not him.  At least now, with the info you all have supplied, we will be able to assess if he is "under the influence" for I know he will assure us that this will not happen again.  Thanks again.  

[To sick and scared from Neena]

As some of you may know, I went through detox at home about a month ago.  Detox off of Vicoden ES and lots of it.  Recently I have had female/ob/gyn surgery and was prescribed 10 Vics ES.  I am terrified.  Will I become addicted again on these 10?  I have no refills.  Can I take two a day and be ok and not go through HEll again?  I am scared, please someone, give me words of wisdom and courage...should I flush them????? I was so proud of myself...Where has my confidence gone?  Neena

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I can really relate to your predicament but am at a loss as to what to tell you.  Personally, I wouldn't flush them just yet because if you do end up in a lot of pain you'll need them as prescribed(that's the key).  If I could, I would hand them over to a non-addict friend that you can trust your life with.  In my case that would be my wife.  Just the fact that you would have to talk to that person to get your meds may keep you from abusing them.  I don't know if this makes any sense to you but I know that I can't trust myself with pain meds.  It's one of my few character defects, ha! ha!

[Jo NYC]

Neena, I'm going to tell you what you probably already know in your heart.  FLUSH THEM AND WAVE GOODBYE PROUDLY!!  You've come so far, and have been through too much to fall now.  Take Advil for the pain, or tell your surgeon your history and ask for a non-narcotic pain killer.  Ten pills will go quick once you get that "taste" again.  If you're thinking of taking them again, think of the suffering you recently went through to get off.  REMEMBER how horrible it was.  The pain from the surgery will subside, the other road will be much more difficult to travel.  I've been clean for a little over two months now, and the pain for which I started taking the Vicodin is back.  I could easily get them again, legitimately, but I take the Advil, and function clear headed and very conscious of the hell it was to withdraw and detox....every day I remind myself.  That suffering alone is enough to remind you, besides remembering how they rule your life when your addicted.  Be strong, resist it, you CAN do it.  Post a million times what you're going through if that helps, we all "listen" and are with you.

Good luck and best wishes.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

I sure wish yall could all come over to my house.  I have done well with the pills.  I have noticed that after I take them, I become depressed.  I want to cry, as I read my posts during and after my detox...I wanted to die and my husband just lost his brother to cancer on Thanksgiving day.  Our house is very sad right now, it's all I can do to get up.  I am only taking 2 a day for now, so I should be out soon.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

I sure wish you all could come over to my house.  It's odd, when I take the pill, I become depressed.  I have only gotten a high off of one dosage and the guilt and depression runs high. Our house is sad right now, as my husband just lost his brother to cancer on Thanksgiving day.  If I take two a day, they should be gone soon or I can flush them and be done with it.  My heart hurts for my hubby right now.  I cannot even worry about myself, I am just trying to keep him happy.  Watching my brother in law die before my eyes, was a real eye opener.  How could I waste my life worried about ten stupid pills?  I will keep yall updated on what I do.  I just took one and a half.  When I look in my daughters' eyes, I become depressed.  How can I NOT flush them when I read my previous posts during and after my detox.  I was so proud of myself.  PRAY FOR MY STRENGTH AS EACH MINUTE GOES BY, PLEASE.  And, thanks so much for caring for a stranger.  I'll let you know when I flush em'.  Neena  ps. Does anyone want to trade email address's?  For more personal communication?  It might help me at this very moment.  Neena

[cheri]

To Neena, I would be glad to be an email pen pal and hopefully
give you some support and encouragement!!! You have been
through a lot, don't be too hard on yourself! Holidays are a
really hard time to lose someone.  my email is ***@**** if you would like to write! God bless you and hang in there! cheri

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Hang in there girl, we are all pulling for you!  I think you are going to be just fine.  When you get off the track and confused, just do another post here and someone will give you what you need to hear.  We addicts can get on some wild rollercoaster rides from day to day, especially at this time of year.  All week long I have been trying to keep my wife from going nuts with all the Christmas worries. Decisions-decisions!

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Thanks for the support.  I've stopped taking the sleeping pills the doc prescribed for me, so I haven't been sleeping well.  This morning after I fed the babe, I took a Vic ES and finally got some peace...not sleep, just peace.  I only have about 5 left, and I am not panicking.  My hookup told me that, that would be it for a while and I told her, that, that was it for me and she said ok for now.  So, I am not panicking as much, knowing there is no way for me to get my hands on any of the little demons.  It's best this way.  Since I am not craving or freaking out about them, maybe I have SOME control...but why can't I flush them?  I have some Xanax if I do incur some withdrawals, but I don't forsee any with this small amount.  God Bless you two for picking me up off the floor and allowing me to forgive myself.  I know that HE is testing me.  Thanks for the Cheer. Neena

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

It sounds to me like you've done a good job of weaning yourself off of these meds!  If you are down to one at a time, that's really good.  Some people will tell you otherwise, but I think you have a handle on things so far.  If you have trouble sleeping, try some OTC benadryl(sp).  I've also used Dramamine.  They are over the counter antihystamines that happen to promote sleep.  If you are in pain, try Aleve or just plain aspirin if your stomache can handle it.  I'm not a doctor but these are things that I fall back on at times.  Try to drink a lot of water!

[Frankinscense]

You said hook up? I thought you got them from your doctor for some surgical procedure. If i am wrong forgive me> If you are scoring these pills on the street get rid of your connection. If you are serious about quitting these pills get rid of the source. Also,never think a hook up is a friend they are your worst nightmare and enemy. If they were your friend they would not have furnished pills to you after you detoxed. Get your story right Neena. Thats one of the first thing you check is an addicts story and excuses for relapse. Best of Luck Neena. It sounds like you are on your way to relapse. I hope that you are not. After a detox your mind will play tricks and will try every excuse to get you to relapse again. Opiate addiction is a disease that is best treated with a little reality.  Flush the pills get rid of the hook up. I am not being unkind just realistic.
Dan...

[To sick and scared from Neena]

You are correct about the hookup and the friendship thing.  She offered more when she found out about my surgery.  But it would not be for two weeks or so.  I have no interest.  But, she is very poor and I am at fault here, not her.  Not always money was involved...sometimes canned goods, clothing for children, etc.  I know that does not make it any more logical, nor is it an excuse.  If I want to blame someone other than myself, I would have to blame my first gyn/ob who performed cervical surgery 15 years ago, but never found the endometriosis or the pelvic adhesions, yet continued to give codiene monthly.  I cannot blame him.  Only myself.  You are not being unkind as I appreciate your opinion and concern.  Degenerative Disk Disease does not help.  Neena

[Gene to Neena]

I have to agree with Dan, Neena.  It sounds to me from reading your posts that you are dangerously close to relapsing!  The addictive mind plays amazing tricks on the person who lives in that body!

I took some perc's for bad headaches after I detoxed in July and I am now up to two 80mg Oxycontins a day.  I thought I could control my opiate usage.  What a joke!  Opiates control me and will always do.  I'm not saying that some painkiller addicts with chronic pain cannot control their opiate intake.  It is possible to do but it is  the exception to the rule.

I know this is your first experience with opiates since your detox but you need to be aware of the fact that you are playing with fire.  If you took them to prove to yourself that you could take them responsibly, then consider the test a success.  Now finish off or flush the rest of them before it's too late!!

I have been going to AA/NA meetings for 4 & 1/2 months now and I read various addiction forums every single day.  I have learned a lot of valuable information from others.  I really feel that you are in a dangerous position.  If you don't want to lose the fragile state of sobriety that you worked so hard for (I have followed your posting for quite a time), then get as far away as you can from opiates.

Good luck to you Neena.

Gene

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Please forgive me, I didn't know what a "hookup" was.  But I think I do now.  I had thought that it was a significant other like boyfriend, girlfriend, etc.  I had no idea it was another term for dope dealer!  Take care and be well.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

I only have 3 pills left and no options for more.  I am taking one or two/day and am having no cravings, nor am I worrying about what happens when I run out.  I firmly remember my detox and everything that happened.  I remember the humiliation and the depression that I felt.  I still have people asking about me...somehow the story leaked out in this small town.  I feel much better, although, I am worried about my husband.  I fear his depression over losing his brother to cancer on Thanksgiving is gaining on him, thus on our relatinship.  His work has him buried alive and that leaves me and a 22 month old with nothing to do.  I can't get her into school until Feb, so we just try to keep busy and out of trouble.  I understand your concern for me.   I too, am worried, but on a much larger scale.  I have much "baggage" ie.  bulemia,etc...In general self destruction, so once I decided that I wanted to live MY LIFE again, not my mothers' or anyone else's, that's when I came clean.  There is lot's more going on here than just a few pills.  I am not worried about them, as I REFUSE TO WALK THROUGH HELL AGAIN.  I am a much stronger person than I was a month ago, thanks to you guys and my family.  Sorry to lay all of this on you, but I don't want you to think of me just sitting around here waiting for my next pill...I am just trying to keep from going crazy.   Neena

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I still think you are on the right track.  Staying busy will keep you out of trouble and really boosts self esteem.  To me, the opposite of depression is activity.  I'm trying to keep my wife's head above water right now and it can get me down in the dumps at times-- if I let it.  When I get really bad off mentally, I go to the cemetary and visit with my daughter and clean up around her grave or plant flowers.  This may sound strange but it snaps me out of whatever anguish I'm experiencing and I feel like going on with life. No pill that I know of has this effect on me.  Thanks for listening!

[To sick and scared from Neena]

I am sorry to hear about your daughter.  My best friend was murdered in 1995 and still no person brought to justice.  I visit her grave when feeling sorry for myself also.  Really brings things into perspective.  She would come down from Heaven and beat me senseless, if I continued my pill abuse. :)  Thanks for sharing.  Neena

[Cindy]

neena, I don't know you as well as others on this board, but here is my humble opinion:  1)  you are not panicking because you are not going through withdrawals, YET.  2)  I believe once the body is addicted to narcotics, it remembers.  My husband was addicted to heroin in vietnam, and will take a vicodin every once in a while (maybe once a month.)  He gets withdrawals for three days, just from that one pill. 3) You can't flush them because, I am so sorry to say this baby, but you haven't hit bottom yet.  You are in relapse and denial.  Our lives are not easy and this does not mean you have failed.  Throw the pills away, call your doctor and tell him you need a non-narcotic pain reliever.  Go and get a shot of torodol if it is very bad.  They will help.  Narcotics do not always really work on the pain itself.  They just take our MINDS off the pain. If this shows posted twice, I accidently hit the button.  Again Neena, Please think about why you are not throwing away these pills.  Also the fact that you stated you couldn't get any from your "hook up" in two weeks means you can get some from your "hook-up" in two weeks.  You shouldn't be even entertaining those ideas.  You are my hero.  You have actually gone through detoxing yourself and are on the way to being clean.  Please don't **** up my hope for myself.  Thanks.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

I tried to post yesterday, but my laptop locked up on me.  I appreciate your comments.  I have no pills now.  I am ok though.  Are you looking to me for inspiration?  Gosh, well my detox was rather harsh and humiliating to say the least, but as you know, it's all up to each individual.  I still remember those 5 days of Hell. Absolute Hell.  There is no other way to describe it.  My therapist says there are people out there who are taking 50-60 of these things a day.  Unimanageable to me, but true.  I guess at my worst...I was taking 2 or 3 at a time randomly.  Sometimes more, sometimes less, until I guess I almost OD'd and threw up all over my bathroom.  For the next two weeks, I crawled and shook and gagged my way through life.  Lost 15lbs. in 3 days.  All the while, taking care of a 20 month old baby.  I have no excuses for my actions and I am the only one who has to answer to those actions.   I have gotten alot of looks from people, but mostly pats on the back and comments on how strong I was to do this alone and at home.  I think people actually admire me now.  Hope your husband is doing ok.  Neena

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Julie,
Good luck with your son.  He has so many accomplishments!  I can imagine how proud of him you must be.  It is so tough to be a kid his age.  I am sure it was just yesterday it seems when he was taking his first steps.  Julie, I hope I can be the wonderful, level-headed mom that you are being right now.  My time will come eventually I know.  This is why this site is so good.  People will just come an offer you their best advice.  I was just wondering Julie, you said that he was always in the emergency room alot for always pushing the envelope.  Is there any way that through medicines given to him at all those ER visits could have got him on the curiosity bandwagon?  I was just thinking that if he has been in the ER so much could he have gotten the taste for them there.  I am probably way off.  I just feel for you and your situation.  Like I said you are a WonderWoman of a mom.  I want to know how this all turns out.  We are all behind you Julie!
Sincerely,
Shelly

[To Shelly from Julie]

Shelly,

Thanks.  You're right, his dad and I are VERY proud of him.  He IS a wonderful person, just chooses to make some stupid decisions.  And, it IS tough to be teen, almost as tough as it is to be a conscientious parent.  As is always the case, when confronted, the blame is turned on us.  If we weren't such nosey parents we wouldn't know this stuff and there'd be no problem.  Also, "I'm co-VP of Nat'l Honor Society, treasurer of A.C.T.I.O.N., doing winter track, captain of the tennis team, have a 94 average, have finished my Eagle project, hold down a job, and that isn't good enough for you!"  He can't figure out that all those accomplishments would be for naught with one arrest for a minor in possession of an illegal substance, be it alcohol or drugs.  Right now, he is very angry with us.  We are a close, affectionate family, and it hurts that the past couple of days we have not received our good-bye and good-night hugs and kisses as it is our custom....none of us ever leave the house w/o kissing the others good-bye and saying, "I love you."  Same goes for bedtime.  How much easier it would be just to feign ignorance....

Since our son refused to tell us which "friend" supplied him with the percoset, we called the parents of all his immediate friends to inform them of our discovery and give them a "heads up."  Chances are, our child was not the only one.  It is amazing how naive some of these people choose to be.  In spite of broad hints in the past, hints that would have had me asking some serious questions, some of these people more or less look the other way with a "boys will be boys" attitude.  Even yesterday when I called them all, several indicated that they were sorry for me and my troubles, but their child would never...when I know for fact that their child drinks a couple of times a month and has also smoked marijauana.  I did not come right out and tell them so....I was waiting for them to ask, but it seems that they do not want to know.  And here I must thank you for your kind words regarding being a level headed, Wonder Woman mom as the reception I got from some of these folks gave me the impression that they thought I was quite insane.

However, I am more at ease now, for this knowlege has been praying on my conscious for quite some time.  I probably should have spoken up long ago, but as you will find Shelly, it is difficult to do things that will have a negative impact on your child.  At least now, if something should happen to any of these boys, I will not feel as though it is on my shoulders....  

You posed an interesting question, The only time he has received any "drugs" was last month for a deep cut near his mouth (when he had blood poisoning, the lancing of the wound was performed sans any type of meds and with his broken bones, all he ever got was OTC pain relievers)...that is if novocaine is a drug??  The doctor needed to irrigate the wound before stitching it closed, so numbed him up with novocaine as she really had to open up the cut.  I must admit, he went on and on about how "cool" it was that his face was all numb and how neat it felt.  It could be that when he found out his "friend" had percoset, he wanted to see how it compared....  

Again, thank you for your kind words and support which are helping to make this difficult time a little easier.

[To Shelly from Julie]

Neena,

I was just scanning through the most recent postings and your comment regarding the fact that you can't get your 22 month old daughter into school until February caught my eye.  Why would you want to put a child that young in school?!?  She belongs home with you.  I gather that you have had many problems, but it's time to stop thinking about yourself...your number one priority should be your child.  Enjoy these toddler years.  In a blink, she will be grown up and you will weep over how fast the years flew by.  

[To sick and scared from Neena]

This is why I am leaving this site.  By school.....I simply mean a half day, one or two days a week, church school.  I have spent every waking moment with my daughter.  By the way, I enjoy every minute with her.  At 22 mos. she needs to be enjoying the company of other children, not just me or other adults.  She is afraid of her own shadow.  I can't imagine why.  I do not like being attacked regarding my child or my pets.  These are the two most important things in my life, except my sobriety. Goodbye

[Dee]

I come to this board twice a day, I don't say much but I read all posts..I can not speak for Julie...I have a feeling that she did not mean to sound as harsh as you took it..not that I wouldn't have taken it the same way..we mother's are very defencive of are children and are mothering skills..I'm speaking as a mother of 4 children from 24 yrs down to 14 yrs..please if this board is helping you, do not leave..almost every mother will put their child before themselfs (it hurts to say almost all)by it seems sometimes that is the case.we will starve to feed our children, we will freeze to keep them warm,we will do anything to keep them safe, and God forbid anyone should try to hurt them!you must love yourself completely first before we can love anyone else completely,every mother needs time to rejuvenate themselfs, wheather it is 6hrs a week or more..you are very vunerable right now and I think that putting your child in a church school for 2 days a week for a couple of hours is great for you and your child, it will give you the time and strength it takes to be a wonderful mother..what you do with that time is what is important, if it's shopping that needs to be done or if you just want to go back home and take a bubble bath by yourself, it doesn't matter...you will feel good when you pick her up after those few hours...years ago I ran a day care,I saw all kinds of mothers, had their children all day,I will tell you my heart broke for some of them, for when they left every morning some had tears in their eyes, but who was going to feed them, cloth them, give them the material things in life that they needed to survive, no one but themselfs, they had to work,I also had the parttimers who just needed a few hours to themself to pick up the strength and give to themself the much needed break they needed to be the best moms that they could..no one is judging you Neena, at least Iam not and I just wanted to tell you that,keep strong, the road ahead is sometimes very very bumpy....take care....
PS
ok who going to jump me for my spelling..lol

[To sick and scared from Neena]

I understand and thanks for replying.  You seem to understand that I need a couple of hours to myself for my own sanity.  I know that when I drop her off that first day, I will fall to pieces, but she needs the company of other children and run and play.  We run errands and play in the house, but she needs other children as her siblings are teenagers.  My sobriety depends on my becoming an indvidual again somewhat.  I have found another addiction forum that runs faster and is much more organized and just more fun.  I will come here too, though, as during my darkest hours, I came here.  Thanks again for your hearfelt posting.  God has given me my life back with my daughter and lets hope a trained german shepherd pup and I intend on living it.  Neena

[From John B. to all]

Your posts have ment so much to me. You may be helping more people than you think. Take some time to read some of my posts. I am sitting her with a full bottle of 75 percs. I know I will take all of them. I always do. I have been fighting this battle for 20 years. Reading about you incrideble strangth have given me hope that I too can do the same. I feel so proud of myself when I go 1 or 2 weeks without them. Eaven though it is only because I have run out, but I let that happen on purpose. So in a way I did do it. I hope the day will come when I could be sitting here with this bottle of pills right in front of me and I can just get up and walk in the bathroom AND FLUSH THEM. We abopted a little girl right out of the hospital about 6 years ago. I look at her and the will to fight this thing really gets strong. I have raised 3 other kids (my wifes kids from a preveous marige)an they all know I take pain meds but have no idea what this drug thing is all about.  

Please keep posting I am going to keep fighting this thing and I hope I to can gain the strength you have found.


  SUCCESS TO YOU ALL:John B.

[From John B. to all]

I hope you will keep posting you are one of the best on this site. You have shown us that we can do it, and that love of family is a strong power, stonger that drugs. I have just taken some perks so I must go. I don't want the pills to start talking for me. This is from my heart, the real one.

         John B.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Thanks so much for your personal posting and your sharing.  I had no idea that anyone was really reading or paying attention to me.  I am not perfect and have not been totally clean since my detox.  When I have used, I have used responsibly and sent the rest down the drain or to a friend for safe keeping.  The fact that you actually were paying attention makes me want to continue even further and become really sqeaky clean.  A full bottle of Percs....hhhhuuummmm.  I could easily say, "flush em", but I know that is very difficult.  For me, it took bottoming out and vomiting all over my bathroom and humiliating myself in front of my family and friends.  Although, it ended so horribly, I was trying to slow down on my own, but did not know how.  Tapering down is the key.  And, if you have enough, to cut them in half or quarters, then that's the way to go.  Space them out fifteen minutes longer each time.   I found that I liked to drink beer while taking them.  So, I stopped drinking beer, and some of my cravings went away.  I still drink beer though.  John B. you are an inspiration to me, just because I am a inspriation to YOU.  I am starting to cut back again.  I was taking 2 and 3 at a time all of the time, before.  Nearly killed myself, all the while taking antidepressants and Xanax and Ambien.  As we say down here..."Houston, we have a problem!"  Thank you for your post.  Please use the percs wisely.  Use them to taper without withdrawals.  When I lost my 12 year old german shepherd in June, I wanted to die and I was well on my way.  But, my daughter was a main force and faith in some God that got me through the detox.  I wanted to die, but I talked to myself, rocked, shook, gagged...but kept going, changing diapers, feeding and asking God for strength for my daughters sake, not mine.  I also, lost a best friend to murder, so I found myself looking at excuses for my self-destruction, only excuses.  Both my dog and my friend would kick my ass, if they could come down from Heaven.  Take a walk, hot showers and most of all...forgive yourself, as the drug has altered your brain...it is not your fault.  God has already forgiven you, now you have choices.  Gotta run put a little one to bed. :)  Praying for you, Neena

[to Neena from John B.]

Thank you for your post. I really wish I had your strength. I have never flushed a pill in my 20 years I have been on this pain med. I have also never hade to deal with physical withdrawal. I have stayed one step away from that for all my time of using. My problem is am mentally addicted. When I don't take one for a week or so I just get very deppressed. I feel I can't do anything without them. That is why I have a full bottle of percs now and another script waiting to be filled tomarrow (I hope this goes through with the pharacy)I am going to the Bahamas this Sat. with some family that I have in Florida. That is something I can't do with out my pills. Sad isn't it! I will beat this thing. I know it can't go on forever. It will get to me very badly some day, and then I will be wishing I did it on my own and not because I had to. I live in a small town in Maine. Up here the doctors (most of them) know only what they read about drug addiction. They percribe them and say "be carefull with these". If they only knew! I havn't taken any yet today but I will. My daughter has a consert at school today and I am walking up (about a 20 min walk up hill) to see it. My reasoning is I need them to help me withstand the cold and snow. I think most of all we loose respect for ourselfs when we are fighting with these things. We decieve our selves and others eaven our own families. This thing eats through you right to the core. I don't like myself and if anyone els knew what I was doing they wouldn't like me eather. I do have a strong faith in God but He only will help those who help them selves. He gives willingly, but it is up to us to open our hands. Some day my hands will be open and I will exept His help.
I must sound like a really bad person.

I am leaving this Sat the 16th so I will be reading and maybe posting till then so keep in touch.

     John B.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

How many pills are you taking a day?  Is is always Percoset?  Don't try to detox while in Florida.  The change in temperature and elevation will only aggrevate things.  Hold steady until you return home.  No, you can't take these pills forever.  The codiene itself won't kill you, but the tylenol will.  I have done much research and spoken with doctors since my detox.  I was taking 2-3 Vicoden ES at every whim.  Sick, Sick, Sick.  When I came down, all I could do was pray to God.  The duration of you addiction and the amount you take a day is very important information when looking for help.  Although, my hard core use was only 1 year, I was taking so many that It was like I had been taking them for twenty years.  You NEED TO FEEL THE WITHDRAWAL SOMEWHAT, although I would not wish that Hell on anyone, you have to let your body tell you just how poisoned it is, before you can move on.  Remember the codiene mimics the endorphins that your brain normally produces on it's own.  So, basically your brain has stopped making those babies on it's own and is relying on the pills.  You need to trick your brain and force it to make it's own again, while tapering slowly off the pills.  It is nothing to be ashamed of as the chemical alters your brain.  My doctor told me all of this.  I got some good advice from an Addiction specialist just over the phone one day.  A good Therapist will also have lots of experience with this and will show you great respect for trying to overcome this disease.  I was afraid and embarrassed to see my doctors, but low and behold, they were proud of me and now see me as a stronger person and have more respect for me.  Now, we are trying to get to the "baggage" that I have been trying to "numb" for all the years with booze, pills, etc...  John...detoxing is very serious and dangerous and very uncomfortable.  I am a strong athlete, 37 years old and it almost sent me to the hospital.  Please...if you are not strong or elderly, sorry, I don't know your age...don't try to detox cold turkey ALONE.  Even though God will be with you all the way, I don't recommend that procedure to be done alone for anyone.  Write back soon, as I want to help you.  I still take two or three a day...and am trying to taper as I type.  I am having no problems with withdrawals, but just knowing they are there is very difficult.  I understand your dilema.  Let me help you.  God Bless, Neena

[From John B. to all]

Thank you so so much (I am 40 by the way). I just can't believe I can talk so honestly for the first time in 20 years. I thank you for your abvice, and I wont try to detox in FL or the Bahamas. I probely wont leave now till monday because of the weather it is going to snow all weekend. I take 2 pills at a time mostly now but some times I take three. I average 6-7 a day. I also take anti-depressants zoloft and imipramine. My doctor for my shoulder has got me taking valium too. I also take blood presure meds. I have so much chemicals in my body.
   The consert was great my daughter looked so cute singing with her teddy bear. I really wan't to get better for her so I can be around to help her with all of lifes ups and downs, and to educate her about drugs and how she should stay clear of them. I took three pills befor I went to see her consert. That makes me feel like sh**. I would have enjoyed it without them but I just don't know how. When I come back from my trip I am going to work harder than ever thanks to you. I am layed off now for the winter as most are up here so I will have lots of time to work on it. My daughter is home so I must go . Thanks again.

      GOD BLESS John B.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Ahhh 40 years, just a baby.  I'm not far behind ya.  If you can, you might try just taking one at a time.  I too, was taking other drugs: Zoloft, Ambien, Xanax...just way to much for my body.  Do not try to taper off anything other than the codiene.  And, save the valium for when you need them during the detox, if you can.  I am glad you got to see your daughter's concert.  I know how you feel about taking them before an event.  I would take 2 before a party or something, because I get rather shy.  I would find any excuse to take them.  I feel sure you would have enjoyed see her concert without the pills, but they make you feel secure, just knowing you have them.  I know.   I had someone offer me some pills today, but I turned them down.  Wooosh, that was hard.  I've still some to taper with...but the Devil is working hard on me.  You should be able to handle the detox unless the blood pressure thing becomes a problem.  Is it the same doc that prescribes the codiene that gives you the blood pressure meds?  Ask him about when you begin to taper, how it will effect your blood pressure.   It can really through you for a loop.  God is looking down on us right now...giving us choices.  We just have to make the best one's for ourselves and our children.  I just wanted MY LIFE BACK.  Write soon, Neena

[From John B. to all]

I can't take it. I have taken so many perks today and valiums I can hardly stay awake. By the time I get back from FL I know I will have hit bottom. I will really need you then. I hope we can help each other.

      Peace and love:John B.

[From John B. to all]

I can't take it. I have taken so many perks today and valiums I can hardly stay awake. By the time I get back from FL I know I will have hit bottom. I will really need you then. I hope we can help each other.

      Peace and love:John B.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Are you ok?  How many have you taken?  I am worried.  You might have already hit rock bottom...I hope you are not alone right now.  Are you there?  I'll check back in a little bit. Neena

[To sick and scared from Neena]

The previous is to you.  I forgot to use the word, "To".  Parents are both teachers.  John, let me hear from you, Neena

[to Neena from John B.]

I am here and ok I am so confused. I don't want to kill myself. I love life. I just picked up another script for percodan so now I am stocked for vacation. I didn't mean to worry you I was alone and I just needed somone to talk to. I have all my pill bottles lined up here in front of me. I hate this!!!! I just want so much to be a reall person, some one that can be really liked, and some one who can help others. Instead I am the one that needs help. I wish I could tell my wife what I am going through. She just wont under stand. She feels that a person should just stop if they don't like what they are doing. So far today I have taken 4 perkocets and 2 percodans. I wont mix them with valium any more I promise. The phamacy did not ask about me filling two scrips in the same week, I thought they would. When I get back from the Bahamas I will be out and my next doctors appt. is Feb 12. I will need all the help I can get then. I think for the first time I will feel withdrawl. Maybe then I will see how bad I am. Thanks for careing. I am so glad I found you. You just may be the one to save my life.

       SUCCESS TO YOU: John B.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

My husband no nothing of my little pill secret, until I was forced to tell him the humiliating truth, as I felt like I was dying.  I wanted and needed help.  At first, I was terrified to tell him because I thought he would judge me or even worse, leave me and take the baby.  My friends intervened and thank God, he stood by me and gave the pills to me to help me taper.  He watched as I suffered terribly.  I cried and cried and felt so horrible.  I told him that I would not blame him, if he left me, but please, please don't take my baby.  He had no intentions of doing any of that.  Addiction to codiene is very common and he understood or TRIED to understand as much as he could.  You see, he doesn't even take aspirin, so Vicoden ES was, to him, CRAZY.  Having him behind me or at least not chewing on me or putting me down helped alot.  I already felt horrible, he could see that I did not need to kick me while I was already down.  I don't wish withdrawals on you, maybe my worst enemy, but not you!.  But maybe you, like me, need to see the effect of the poison on your body.  My body finally said, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH and I turned into Linda Blair in the Exorcist.  No kidding.  When do you leave again?  I just got some more pills.  I too, need some help.  Talking to you and helping you helps me alot.  I'ts nice to be needed by someone other than a 22 month old baby.  I was depressed today and took more than usual of my pills.  Now, I'm pissed at myself.  Are you there?  Neena

[From John B. to all]

Yes I am here. I took more than I usaul do today to. What are we going to do? I leave this Sun. I hope if the weather holds up. We are driving down to Connecticut to see my step daughter and then going to Greenville, SC to see my step son and his kids (yes I am a grandpa at 40). After staying there for a couple of days we will drive to FT Lauderdale, FL to catch a fight to tha Bahamas. I will be home somtime in the first week of Jan depending on weather. My wife too doesn't take anything but asprin or tylenol pm she knows almost nothing about what is involved in taking drugs. So I have been alone in this all my life. You are the first person I have been totaly honest with since I started taking these things (20 years ago). Are we helping eachother or are we feeding off eachother. I don't know. All I know is that I don't feel so alone anymore. And I think we can beet this thing. We both have the same goal and drive. I think though you are stonger than me in a lot of ways. I hope you feel better tomarrow and not so depressed. What do you do when you are depressed? I find that a long walk in the woods helps me. I feel so close to God and I can talk to Him out loud and that helps.

      It is late so good bye for now: John B.

[From John B. to all]

It is sat. 16th 3:00pm.  I will be leaving on sunday. So unless I can get to a computer you will not hear from me till the first week in Jan. So keep youe head up don't be to hard on your self when I get back lets really work hard on this thing together. Are you ready? I know I am. I have beat cigaretts and pot a long time ago and when I put my mind to it I just quit. So I know I have it in me. This is bigger than anything I have ever faced so it will be a reall chalenge. I am very up today and very positive. I really hope you are ok. Can we stick together and beat this thing. I know we can. I will check back tonight for the last time. So please please wright.

   God bless and thank you: John B.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

I hope you have fun on your trip.  If you beat cigarettes, you beat this thing, trust me.  I just took a pill, as we have a house full of people.  Two teenage boys and my hubbys tv went out during the football game and he got pissed. I have to to everything around here, take out trash, etc. and when the precious, big screen goes out...ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE.  Not a reason to take a pill, but...you know how it goes.  Emma is crying, gotta run. be back later. Neena

[From John B. to all]

I know how it is>.I just took a couple of pills because I have so much work lft to do befor I go. Hang in there. You sond like you have alot on you right now. there will be a time when you can handle all this and more on your own without the pills.

Later: John B.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Ok, I'm back.  The TV is fixed and the hissy fit is over.  The baby was crying because she can sense the tension.  I can't watch TV with my hubby and his sons because they change the channel constantly.  It infuriates me.  I sure wish you could go and come back from your vacation now, so we can stop this insanity together and ASAP.  I only have about 10 or so, so I'll try to stretch them, etc.  Taking halves is working, unless I get really stressed.  One thing about detox, is that once you get your appetite back...it comes back with a vengence.  I have already gained 10 lbs.  Your body will need to feed itself and build itself back up after the withdrawals.  I need to get my feeding frenzy's under control.  I have a history of bulemia, so it's best that I don't get out of control with my weight.  So, what airline are you flying?  Are you flying first class?  When will you be back again?  Saturday night TV is horrible.  I bought the movie, The Perfect Storm...maybe I'll watch that once the baby goes to sleep.  Have you seen it?  It's very good.  I recommend it.  I also really liked Deep Impact.  I like movies like that.  I got very depressed today.  Must be hormones.  I miss my dog that I had to put down in June.  This will be my first Christmas without her in 12 years.  Sometimes it just hits me very hard.  I want her back.  Her death was the beginning of my spiral downward.  I numbed myself until October.  I really had not cried about her until today, I guess because I was always on pills and lots of em.  Sobriety, sometimes brings out very sad reality.  Be prepared for that too.  You'll see things differently.  One day you'll walk outside and the sky will look different to you.  I'll be on and off til' I go to sleep.  Hope to talk to you before you leave.   I'll pray for your safe journey.  Neena

[From John B. to all]

We are going with my motherinlaw who cant fly so I am for the first time in my life going to drive. I hate even thinking about it. We will go to SC first then after a few days to FT Lauderdale and catch a flight from there to Freeport Bahamas. I know what you mean some times are harder than others. I love the time I am clean things do look better. Why is it we keep going back. Is it just an excape? Excape from what? who knows. I am sure I will have fun I love to scuba dive and I plan on doing that the hole time. So I will talk to you later. I will check this site one more time befor I go to bed. So feel free to Write.

Take care Neena: John B.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

With your Mother in Law from your home to the Carolinas?  Your a good man, no matter what.  I can't even ride with my own mom in a car across town...my husband would strangle her. he he.  Maybe the change in scenery will help.  I've never been to the Bahamas.  I bet it is beautiful, although, I prefer the mountains.  We used to own some land in Northern New Mexico, but sold it for triple the price we bought it for.  Now I wish we still owned it.  I could use a mountian to sit on, right about now.  It is not far from Los Alamos, in the Jemenez mountains.  That dream faded with many others. My hubby is an attorney and we are supposed to be "rich", but we arent'.  We have to watch every penny.  Since we've only been married about two years, I am still getting used to someone else telling me how to spend my money and I sure miss my job and having that kind of independence.  What are we escaping from?  For me it's many things.  My poor therapist knows.  But, all of that is still no excuse for drug abuse and alcohol abuse.  I need to stop drinking beer too.  I wish I could stop everything.  You're in Maine, right?  Must be late there, as it's 830 here.  What time does your trek begin tomorrow?  How long is the first day drive?  Did you have your car checked out?  he he.  I sound like my dad.  My Tahoe needs a checkup, that reminds me.  What do you drive?  I'd like to buy an old VW and rebuild it and have it to "play in".  Well, I gotta run and put Em down for the night.  I'll check back before, I go to bed.   If I don't talk to you, God Speed.  Neena

[From John B. to all]

It is late here about 10:30. Yes my mother-inlaw lives with u s. we bought a house big enouph for all of us. She stays down stairs and we live up. She is very hard to deal with. She tells the same stories over and over. I was thinking of a way to slip her one of my drugs for the trip(just kiding). Talk to you later the car is all packed and I am going to bed. I will check to see if you posted in the morning.

John B.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Bet I missed you.  Safe trip again.  We'll start our new lives when you get back.  Neena

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Geesh it seem like alot is going on here in this thread.  I think I know you better now than ever! You and John B. are true buddies.  It is so nice to know that people are out there like you.  It is so great to have this inner circle of friends.  Dont you think so!
Take Care Neena,
Marcie!

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Hey Lady!  Nice to hear from you.  I need to run and check on baby and some soup on the stove.  Be back soon.  Lot's to tell you.  I am kindof backsliding.  Help.  Talk soon. Neena

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Okay you tell me you are going to check on the babe and the soup.  And then you leave me with "lots to tell you" and that your "backsliding"! and here I am worried about you waiting for you to let me know what is going on!  Write back soon I would like to help!
XO Marcie!

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Well, sorry it took so long to get back.  Today was hectic.  Had to get dog xrayed and do some last minute Christmas stuff and the xray results were not good.  Since I put my 12 year old German Shepherd down in June, basically when my life began to fall apart, in the interim I bought another Shepherd.  She has been nothing but a pain, especially during my detox.  I sent her to be trained and come to find out, she has a congenital tendon disease which may leave her lame OR NOT.  That's the thing.  No one can tell me what will happen.  Well, she is home and it makes me feel better just having her in the yard.  It hurts though, to watch another dog suffer.  When I lost Aspen, was when I went down hill in the pills, out of control.  As you might have read, I detoxed totally.  Since then I've taken pills in small amounts and have controlled them totally.  When I feel stress, like today, I take them and that scares me to death.  My investment in my animals is HUGE, both financially and EMOTIONALLY.  Actually I only have about ten pills left, so I really can't get into trouble.  I am pissed at myself for even taking one of them, but my depression and "baggage" and I've got lot's of it, really brings me down.  As we know, the pill can help pull us out of the dulldrums for awhile, while relieving menstrual cramps.  I AM TERRIFIED OF SPIRALING OUT OF CONTROL AGAIN. I miss my Aspen horribly and now my present dog is growing on me.  She ws to be a show dog, with both parents, Champions, now she is or may be crippled.  I am sad and mad at the same time.  I saved her life.  The breeder would have for sure put her down because of the disability, so that makes me care for her even more.  I'm a sucker for any animal.  I am a vegitarian too.  On a good note, I have gained 12lbs since my detox, so I'm back to my normal weight, even more so and am taking Centrum and lots of B12.  Hope to hear from you soon, Neena

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Hi yall.  John, you back yet from your trip?  Outa pills yet?  Marci, where are you?  Could use a chat right about now.  Step children outa control and I came upon some more pills.  I'd like to flush them.  Need help.  Neena

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Just got back from Miami! It was really cold there can you believe that!  I want to talk about the step kids and everything else.  Why dont we set up a mutual day and time and hit the "chat" button already and talk! Rather than just writing a paragraph or two lets talk live.  What do you think! Lets do it lady!
XO Marcie.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Sounds great to me.  I need to "chat" about life in general.  At some point we need to trade emails without everyone else getting them.  Let's figure it out.  Neena

[From John B. to all]

Hi Neena I am back. I just walked in the door so I will write back very soon.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Welcome back.  We need to talk about relapse.  It's almost baby's bedtime so, I may just go away for the night...I am very angry with myself presently.  Sorry to be such a downer as soon as you walk in the door.  I'll try to stay up as late as possible.  Neena

[From John B. to all]

Hi:
  Don't be too hard on yourself. I have not been very good on this whole trip. It is late about 11:30 here, but if you are still up tell me what has been going on with you. and then I will tell you what happend to me. I am very down on myself right now so I don't know if I can be much help but maybe we can help eachother. That what this is all about.

      John B.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Did much better today.  Got really sick last night, too many pills, beer, etc...Very nauseated but have Phenergan without codiene for that so slept well and woke will no withdrawals.  Must have gone at least 15 hours without anything.  Trying to step down from here.  Feel better, but not where i need to be.  Hope you are not being hard on yourself.  It only makes things worse.  I found that most of it is in my head.  Well, at least alot of it.  Because I got instant high from pill yesterday.  Not possible, so I know in my head that I just had to make sure it was there, ya know?  Neena

[From John B. to all]

How are you? It has been a while. I am no diferent. Still on the pills I went through 300 pills in one month. When I ran out in the Bahamas I bought some 222s. Which is some over the counter pain pills that have a bit of codiene in them. They have such a small amount that I have to take 4 at a time to get any results and you end up feeling very dissy because of all the caffeine and other junk they have in them. But they do the trick pretty good. They also have them in Canada. They make you sign for them and you cant take them over the border (leagaly). I went for two days without any pills and brased myself for the worse, but I felt no withdrawl. I was planing on staying off of them till Feb for my next DR. App. But I called for a refill. He only gave me 30 this time I think it was too soon to ask for more. Now it will take me many visits befor I can build back up to my usual 50 tabs. What a life. I spend too much time thinking about this. I am glad I don't like to drink offten. I know I would abuse that two. I drink from time to time but only very seldom enjoy the effect it has on me.Please let me know how you are doing.

         John B.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Nice to hear from you.  I was worried.  Boy, you ate alot of pills while on vacation.  No withdrawals?  I picked up ten more today.  I have to taper now, because I have a OB/GYN appt on the 26th and need to be clean.  I have endometriosis and well...lots of female problems that I'm sure you don't care to hear about, so I need to be clean and sober when I go in, because I am having some problems, ie...irregular bleeding, etc...I am terrified, as this means another surgery, possibly hysterectomy, which I am not ready to consider at this point.  My doc knows nothing of the addiction, but I will have to spill it.  My husband found a lump on my lower back that is painful also, so now he is worried about all of it too.  I won't be able to get any codiene...if I do, my hubby will have to give them to me.  I am not in that much pain, but have access to Vics. ES so I am not suffering.  I want to start tapering right now, with the 10 or 15 that I have right now.  Do you want to do it with me?  I have to be clean at least 4 days before my appt.  Let me know.  God Bless, Neena

[From John B. to all]

Sure lets give it a try. It is 9:00 here now and my wife is in and out of my offic now so I can't talk but I will write as soon as I can. How long do you have till the 4 four days start? I have 20 pills and then I will have to go about four weeks. Unless I can think of somthing befor then. But I will be glad to try to do this together and stay off. Maybe I am just a dreamer.

I will write back maybe later. I always stay up the latest in this house.
          John B.

[To sick and scared from Neena]

All I know is that I need to stop at least 4 to 5 days before the doctor's appt. on the 26th.  I would cancel and reschedule, but since I am actually having female problems and now my hubby is concerned, I have to keep this one, so it looks like next week is the big week.  I don't have a calendar in front of me, but tomorrow I'll be back on in the am.  Tomorrow is my hubbys 49th birthday.  I'll try to get back and we'll set days/times/intervals, etc...I forget...you are taking Percs?  or Vics?  Let me know.   I am going to rest for now.  You are not a dreamer.  Anyway, if we did not have dreams, what would we have?  We can do this.  We have about the same amount of pills, I just have to cut off much faster than you.  Oh, well, we will work it out.  Nighty night.  Sleep well, and God Bless, Neena

[From John B. to all]

I am taking percodan.
Goodnight

[To sick and scared from Neena]

Percodan, I think is stronger than Vics ES.  Am I incorrect?  How many per day?  At what intervals?  Gotta run feed the babe.  Neena

[Linda]

I have been on percoset for nearly 4 years now. I don't seem to be addicted. I had vascolitis(layman's terms) the real medical name for it is polyarthritis nodosa. It attacks the veins and the lungs and the brain. I have had a stroke and foot drop. so needless to say I was given percoset for the pain. I also have osteoporosis and have had many broken bones. I am not sure if I have become addicted to this drug. I have read all the others here and I am not like that. I don't feel a high when I take the pill. I do get some relief after I have taken it. I will hopefully be able to not have to take it any more, but I don't think that day will come. Only when I die. I pray for all those who have become addicted to this drug.For the pain it is a good pain reliever. I don't use alcohol ..god bless all of you. linda

[BHepburn]

well i have tried percs and i love them, but the effects vary, i dont consider myself an addict at all, i have only done them like 5 times, and tonight i will try an OC 40 for the first time, does anyone know the differences between the two?

[Nene]

Hi, I am a new writer here but ilike hearing about your situations.  It is April now, where are you two?