possible drug addiction

[Nana]

We have a young man in our office,he just turned 21, who has had drug problems in the past but claims to be clean, his actions are very eratic, sometimes he seems extremely happy and other times very depressed. He just moved back home with his parents and often, he says, goes home for lunch. When he returns, many times his face is scarlet red, he coughs and sniffs alot. In time the redness goes away, (maybe an hour). I am concerned about him, I believe hes back on the drugs. Does the redness in his face indicate the use of cocaine? How can we help him?

[barbara to pain and lortab]

It sounds like you are fishing for trouble you cannot prove unless they give drug testing at your company. I'd be careful about defamation if I were you.

A red face simply could be how he looks while his body is digesting food. Or caffiene, or an arguement with the wife etc.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Don't try to help him unless he asks for help.  Barbara is right about fishing for trouble.  You could end up doing more harm than good.  Just be patient and wait to see what happens.  It's not easy, I know.

[petie]

I think the guy is is doing ropes on his lunch break..
Is he anxious to leave come lunch break...
How is his performance after he does the white goddess ??
I agree with the others not to mention it...he will trip his own self up..

Now about Oxy's
can you or do you want to snort oxy's

[Nana]

thank you all... Barbara, JB & Petie for your reply and comments, I am not, repeat, AM NOT, fishing for trouble, I have no intention of defaming him, nor would I offer unwanted advise, I AM, however, concerned about the young man and thought I could get some intelligent answers about his possible use of drugs. Obviously, I picked the wrong site!!!

[Brighty to Nana]

I sure don't think you picked the wrong site :- because there is good information to be gotten here) and I don't doubt for a minute that you are on to something!!! especially if you are acutally a Nana !!!! The problem here is that you are in the workplace and that takes on a whole new climate of behaviors in your wanting to help him... you simply cannot cross over some lines. If he is using it will become evident and probably interrupt his ability to work. If you work for a large company with benefits and his usage ( if that's really what it is) becomes a concern to a greater number of people it may be that the boss and administration will do a formal intervention to get him into a rehab. In any case be a proper co-worker friend and maybe he will want to come to you personally. If not, then I would have to agree with all the replies listed above mine. Love, Brighty

[Nana]

I am truly a NANA!!! With 5 grandchildren, in the administration of this small company, I am still looking for answers. He did come to me, he told me about his past drug use, when he first came to work for us and unfortunatly, I AM STILL LOOKING FOR ANSWERS....thanks for nothing....

[Brighty to Nana]

The answers you are looking for are not easy to come by.... you wanted to know if redness in his face is caused by cocaine use. Well it could also be an allergy... every one of the symptoms you mentioned... coughing and sniffing are very common... I am asthmatic and my symptoms are identical to the ones you mentioned and my face gets red... often cold air or post nasal drip give me the same symptoms... sometime after eating I get this way.... and I do not use cocaine or other drugs. I am sorry you seem so annoyed with us but the only way you are going to find out for sure is to take him aside and ask him.... after all you are now offering that you are part of the administration so perhaps this is within your authority. I don't doubt that you care about him. The responses you got here are because most people tend to be respectful of job security and likely felt that you did not have enough to go on. Lots of people have had past drug problems but that alone is not enough to decide they are having problems again. More tell tale than his red face or his coughing and sniffing would be his behavior.... does he seem weird or different when he returns from lunch... is he aggressive or very talkative... is his job performance dropping off.... does he steal or lie... does he seem disoriented... is he having conflicts with other employees... is he missing work or leaving early... if you can say yes to most of those questions then you are on to something.... but if he simply comes in from lunch with a red face and sniffing then I'd suggest you mind you offer him some kleenex and mind your own business.

[Gloria]

Dear Nana,
I am uncertain where the anger you are spewing is coming from, but your question will be answered by the forum's physician at some point.  In the meantime, the people that respond to this forum/your post, are offering whatever advice they feel might apply to your situation.  The responses to your post may be very sincere or tainted with sarcasm, wit, etc., but it is because we are all individuals and we base our responses on our life experiences.  As for your employee, he may or may not be back on drugs, but without a positive drug screen, or observation of him using drugs, your GUESS is just as good as ours.  "Does the redness in his face indicate he is using drugs?"--maybe yes, maybe no.  Nana, I know you would like concrete answers, but I do not believe you can get them without hard evidence.  A red face, erratic behavior, severe mood swings, sniffling, could all point to drug use, but also a many other things--this I know from my experience in the medical profession.  If you would like, I could list a multitude of medical problems that mimic drug use.  That is why everyone has urged you to procede with caution regarding this issue.  You asked how you can help him.  I can assure you (from personal experience), that until I reached the deepest part of that black hole of addiction, with no light in sight, no one could help me until I wanted to help myself.  It is admirable that you want to help this young man, regardless of whatever is causing his change in behavior.  For him, I hope drugs are not the problem, but with his past history, if he is not using, he will be shortly due to whatever stress he is under.  I wish you the best on your journey to find answers regarding this situation.  Gloria

[Brighty to Gloria]

Thanks Gloria,
You handled it better than I did... I am a nana too !! so it was positive wit I was using there... thanks for the assistance. Love, Brighty

[Nana]

To everyone who has responded to my original question!
I am not angry, as someone has just indicated, I asked a simple question and I am accused of trying to defame the young man, "mind my own business" etc. I don't feel that I am the one that needs a lecture. And of all things "if you are actually a NANA?"
The 2nd reply from Brighty tells me that, yes indeed he could have allergies, but in all honesty and with his past history, how can anyone believe he has suddenly developed an allergy.

Let me tell you more about "Mark."
His family are friends of the owners of the company.
He is consistantly late for work.
Some days he doesn't show up at all and then calls in sick (hours after his scheduled work time) or with an excuse he forgot a dental appt...etc. etc.
He sleeps at his desk.
His production has never been up to par.
Some days hes happy, energetic, other days lethargic & irritable.
And.. as far as my 2nd question "How can we help him?" I think we already have, by not firing him.
I want to thank everyone who responded to my letter, for your concern about "Mark" and me....truly I am not an angry person, sorry I came across that way, it is quite obvious to me now that he is back on drugs and there is nothing I can do about it, except tolerate his behavior. And as others have suggested.."Butt out Nana!"

[tom to Nana]

yeah, you've got it right. He's doing something at lunch he can't just do in the Men's room. My guess is crack. But opiates like heroin give you a flush, too. He'll finally rack up so many sick days and late arrivals and no shows after lunch that you'll have grounds for 86-ing him just on attendance. Some companies give their employees at least one chance at rehab and a probationary period, but that's up to, I guess, the big boss at your company. You offended some of us with the "I came to the wrong place" and "thanks for nothing" comments. Lighten up on that stuff. We don't owe you anything. You asked us, we gave you the best answers we knew how to give. Take it or leave it. But keep the critique to yourself.

[Nana]

I asked for advise, I got criticism.
If I offended some with my comments, so be it...
End of discussion..

[Brighty to Nana]

We are ending a year and starting a new one and I personally want to send you my wish for peace. I too am sorry if I offended you. I believe everyone here was sincere in the posts they sent to you. Please understand that in your first couple of posts you offered little but his red face and coughing and sniffing. It has taken several posts from you to learn that he has other symptoms. Based on all that I am certain you know something's up. I was very sincere when I said if you were actually a nana you were on to something. I am a nana too. I meant the comment as a compliment to your wisdom as a mother and a grandmother... that you pretty much had things figured out. In no way did I mean any thing sarcastic. Having kids and grandkids gives you a leg up on knowing the score... you earned this special wisdom. I am sorry you were unhappy with the replies. I know for a fact as someone who has been here for nine months that they were not criticizing... they were giving you the best advice based on the limited information you supplied. Now that you are affirming many more evident symptoms of drug abuse I can see that you probably want to know how to help him. Well, you can lead the horse to water.... i call that intervention... you do not say who else is involved with you in wanting to help. Afterall, the boss gets the say so. I think you can all take him aside and tell him you know he needs help and that you expect him to accept help if he is to continue working there. If he does not have a benefit package that covers this then it seems to me that all you can do is assist him in finding a community based program where he can detox and hopefully find some outpatient treatment consisting of counseling and relapse prevention skills. He should get involved in a recovery group of some type... NA and AA or Rational Recovery.... but again, Nana, he has to want this for himself. If he is still at a place in his addiction where he denies that he is physically and mentally ill then you are spinning your wheels. The sad reality is that most drug abusers have to suffer alot before they finally decide they need to change. This is because the drug causes powerful cravings that make it seem impossible to quit. They generally go on and on until they end in jail, an ER or lose families and careers. If this were not so then we could all use drugs for a little fun and put them down when we wanted to. This young man is living in a distorted reality and your gentle caring is very valuable to him. That does not mean he will change readily. But every bit of love and caring we offer another in pain is not in vain. I hope you will reconsider and come back here and let us know what happens at your company with this young man. I am certain that now you understand more, and we understand more you will get better replies from the people that come here. God bless you in your efforts to help another... Happy New Year to you. Love, Brighty

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Dear Brighty,
You know that all of us here know that you meant "If you are actually a Nana" that in a loving way.  How someone can come to a site ask for help and then tear the site apart because of our answers is terribly sad.  We are by no means experts we too have problems.  That is how we found this site! I just wanted you to remind you that you are appreciated.  Gloria was so eloquent wasn't she!  I know that the lady needs help but it makes me sad that she came here and indicates we are not intelligent and "thanks for nothing".  I know that there is nothing we can do about it but tolerate HER behavior.  I vote for giving her money back.
Brighty I think you are terrific!  I will be president of YOUR fan club ANYTIME!
XO
Marcie!

[Brighty to Marcie]

LOL !!!! What a great way for me to start the New Year. You are such an ego booster. Hey, I think we all ought to plan to meet someday !! In the meantime... just loved your "g" word !! Love, Brighty

[S.A.]

If he is truly underperforming and sleeping at his desk, the best "medicine" is too fire him. This will force him to confront the cruel and painful reality of his addiction. Why enable his behavior by keeping him employed when he clearly doesn't deserve the job on merit. As Ann Landers says, it's time for this man to "wake up and smell the coffee". In the long run, he'll be thanksful that someone forced him to confront the issue.

[barbara to pain and lortab]

It sounds like you are afraid to fire him for some reason and want others to give you excuses. You need the backbone to decide for yourself while following the laws or risk a lawsuit. It sure helps to be protected from angry employers like you. I would not want to work for person like you.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Barbara, please be nice to Nana!  She probably meant well but just doesn't understand things the way we do.  God knows she won't be coming back here again for advice.  But you never know, maybe she likes us for our honesty.  

I wanted to know how you ended up on Guam of all places.  It sounds like an island paradise to me!  I spent two years on Oahu, Hawaii many years ago and remember the beaches and skin diving and surfing.  It just seems like an impossible dream right now, but I would like to experience all this again, soon!

Just stuck in Indiana for the winter,

J.B.

[Gina]

I tried to post this reply on Dec. 30 but my computer wouldn't comply. Although you have received many answers, I printed mine out to send to you. I won't harass you with your rude answer since that's been done. The reason for the communal response about not approaching him is for you own sake and well-being. As people on this site , we have either a history or knowledge of drug use and behavior. We can guarantee that if you approach him, he will DENY it. He will not say, "Gee, you noticed and I'm so relieved that now I can get the help I need, thank you so much!" If you are having a hard time doing and/or saying nothing, than maybe you could try a real casual approach such as "Hey, I was thinking of you the other day and realized how much it must have taken for you to confide in me about your past. I want you to know that it made me feel (honored or special or insert your own). If you ever need an ear in the future I hope you know you could always come to me. Anything else will send him running! Trust me! I hope this helps your dilemma.

[barbara to pain and lortab]

I moved out here about 18 years ago to live in the deep tropics, warm climate and desired island life. I also wanted to remain under the U.S. flag as there is more protection and stability  with laws than say, working in the Philippines or another foriegn country.

I have had the job of my dreams for many years but got that after I moved out here. I moved on a risk, a whim. My health was bad in cold weather, fibro or EBV ETC, and I really suffer in anything colder than 70 degrees, so stiff and in pain I can barely move. So I also was moving here for survival as well.

I moved with a boyfriend who also agreed to take a risk but that relationship did not work out. We had a house together I did not want to give it up so I bought his share out. I needed to work a full-time second job to accomplish that so I mowed lawns for 4 1/2 years. The pain in my body was always bad but I was on two Emperin 3 per day which helped. When the Doc I was seeing moved, I was cut off and the pain became unbearable.

That's when I started drinking, to self medicate for the anxiety disorder and the pain. This went on until the company I worked for sold and I had to drop half my mowing clients because the alcoholism was progressing. I met an alcoholic boyfriend and so the stress of unemployment and his abusivness placed me into super heavy drinking. Then, out of the blue I got a call from another company that wanted to hire me. The alcoholic boyfriend started becoming physically abusive due to fear my working would lead me to another man.

I had to have him arrested to get rid of him. When I met him he was unemployed, had no home, no car and only a guitar and songs. Somehow by destiny I picked him and we did some music together during this time.

He got out of jail after two months and came right back and I realized the alcohol withdrawal was so bad I was already having the "shakes" only a few hours after my last drink. I knew it was time to quit so I approached my boss, told her the truth and saw a Doctor in October 1999. It went on from there with seizures, DT's and pure living hell. I had to have the boyfriend put in jail again since he just would not leave. He's still in the clinker today.

Now, a little over a year later I am almost eight months sober and no desire to drink. I have a depression problem and seizure disorder from all the seizures I had while out-patient detoxing various times.

I don't want to babble too long but that's the main scoop. My hobbies are going to the jungle to collect rare plants, the ocean, animals and nature. I turned my house into a jungle like area. I have four dogs and five cats. That's my family. I like song writing and book writing. I have many songs waiting to go for mastering. One Master Tape is finished and the first song believe it or not is  "Shakedown breakdown". It's about alcoholism and withdrawal seizures. I am almost 45, I turn that in March.

That's about it. How about you. Now it's your turn. Tell us about yourself.

[Brighty to Barbara]

I really loved your post. In spite of your problems and personal sufferings you are not vanquished !! You are one powerful lady. After reading your post I felt like I was reading an adventure novel. I have had such a traditional life. I feel like I haven't lived yet after seeing how much you have accomplished in nearly the same amount of years on this earth. God bless you and may you continue to beat your demons. Hope you stay here with us. Love and prayers, Brighty

[Alex to Nana re your Dec 29, 2000 Query]

To find out the symptoms and effects of cocaine and other street drugs have a look at www.narcononcenter.com which contains easy to read and understand information.

I'll be looking out for your response.

[Popeye]

Sometimes it can be hard 2 tell the diffrence
between being high and being strung out, for
a person who may not be too ofay with drugs,

As a heroin addict I know that when I`m off everything
4 a while, I sniff alot and sneeze, and symtoms may vary from person 2 person.

Poppers are the only drug that I know off that makes your face go red.

I think the best way 2 detmine if a person is ussing drugs is not by their outwards aperance or wether they cough etc, but more by thier mood, when ussing drugs, an addict feels like s/he can deal with thier problems, and so may seem quite happy or even exected because they have just scored, When the addict is out of drugs, feeling of depresion are common.

I`m not sure az to how much you know so dont be offended if I tell you something you already know,


Heroin, and other similar drugs ( opiods ) make the ussers pupils very small, even in a dark room, also makes them have itchy skin especially on the nose for some reson. They are very often pale, and may be physically sick at work for example if they arent used to the drug.


Cocaine is a harder drug to detect because unlike amphetamines there are no changes in pupil size and from my own experiance they tend 2 look healthier, Crack Cocaine is more likley to make the user paranoid and will give a more intense sensation so they may seem exicted or "on top of the world".

Cannabis,  The eyes become bloodshot, the user becomes forgetfull and find everyday things quite funny and may enjoy fits of giggles.

I dont know what the chap was on or is on, and its hard to know,
I`d say though that if he is clean you will see an improvment in his physicall apperance and his abilities at work and his mood will be more even, although perhaps a little low.

Excuse my spelling

BYE 4 NOW

POPEYE

[spook]

personally I think he is smoking crack.You cannot help him.

[Kate]

Hi spook,
Your stated that you think he's smoking crack, and she couldn't help him. Why do you say that? This concerns me alot. Please elaborate. Thanks.

[spook]

I should have said "YOU"(not qualified) cannot help him,of course their is help for crack smokers,but he is not exactly asking for it?does he want help?,would interfering possibly cost him his job-YES.
Let him be,but remember,it would be probably be easier to "help" a man into giving up sex than giving up CRACK Smoking.
You can start"helping" by accepting him as he is,that is called unconditional love and gradually establish a relationship,if you are genuinely interested in him as a person and want to befriend him,eventually when he confesses all of his innermost fears/secrets,you will see why he does drugs and has every MORAL although not LEGAL right to do so,as I believe it is HIS LIFE...............and ultimately DEATH,who are we to interfere?????????.

[Chris s]

This is weird. I was just surfing the web because I couldn’t sleep from an experience that happened to me earlier tonight. Some old lady with a maroon scarlet red face bought a little kid (about 3 or 4) into a jack in the box by my house at 12:30 at night. I just got off work and went to get something to eat with some friends. This old lady was obliviously on some hard drugs (my friends thought it was meth), she was making one hell of a scene. Within 5 seconds of entering she had everyone in the buildings full attention. She was ranting on about the child, trying to get the poor little girl to mind her. Then she left the kid alone and unattended in a jack in the box at almost one in the morning while she went to use the bathroom at a nearby gas station. Some other guys that were in the jack in the box whom I used to go to high school with came over and talked to me and my buddies about the crazy old lady and her little girl. They then went into the gas station and checked to see if the old lady was still in the restroom, and they said she was just sitting in a stall. Probably shooting up or something, I don’t know. I had to leave so I don’t know what happened yet. I hoped somebody called the cops because there was a serious child neglect case there. I know this wont help whoever started this thread because it was 7 years ago but to whomever else found it in a search engine linking red faces and drug use / addiction, I bet a red scarlet face is definitely some side effect from some crazy drug. My stories all true, it was a pretty intense situation.