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643717 tn?1224554218

question about sub

Hey everyone, hope all is well. This is day 16 for me on the sub and i saw my dr today. among other things we talked about was this website as i tell him i've learned alot of important things about the use of sub on this site and that everyone here truely seems down to earth and really cares about each other, as were all in the same boat, sort of. Among what we talked about was my concern about the  " severe wd's " from the sub when it is finally time to stop. Again, this is only my 16th day on it and im doing 6 mg per day, down from 16mg a day. I'm doing fine, no wd's, no cravings for the hydro's, go to work, play with the kids, pretty much just back to being " normal ' , whatever that is...lol..!!.  I also have been on seraquel and trazadone to sleep since getting out of detox, and since i started the sub, I have NOT taken ONE of those to sleep as im getting about 6-8 hrs a sleep a night just from being on the sub. I'm still taking the 20 mg lexapro for the depression though, but thats it. My dr said im getting too worried about the wd's when i stop (from what i've learned from you guys). He asked me then to post a question on how did those of you on the sub, finally stop (taper off) as im sure it worked wonders for most of you, AND that most of you did not experience severe wd's ( at least i hope not !! ). Like i said its only my 16th day and i know ill be probably be on it for a while longer, and i dont have a problem with it as long as I feel good, and i dont have any craving to use again. I go to a one on one with my dr once a week, and am going to start those group meetings hopefully in a few days. Thanks, Mark...
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Avatar universal
You got some great input, start a new thread and we will all chime in with more specifics. It is totally doable and subs seem to have the effect you describe somewhere after around 3-6 years, depending on the individual. In Latin America, they call the people on subs a long time, bupe zombies. Stick with us and you can be free. Please, start your own thread.
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480448 tn?1426948538
You would probably be better off starting your own new thread, that way it won't get passed over, as this one is old.  You can do that by clicking on this link:

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/new_with_new_subject?forum_id=77

Just some quick input.  You're absolutely right that Suboxone is tough to get off.  It's got a long half life, and it's stored in the body in various places, which usually makes withdrawal a good bit longer, and sometimes more intense.

The GOOD news is, it IS possible for you to get off the Sub, the key is a SLOW, gradual and very deliberate taper, dropping down small amounts, then giving yourself a stabilization period (usually about 2 weeks or so) in between dosage reductions.  I'm not sure what dose you're on, but the initial decreases for people over 2-4mg aren't too terribly hard.  It's when you get down to the lower doses (2mg and lower) where w/d will become more intense.  It's at that point where the dosage reductions need to be minimal, and the stabilization period is an important part of the process.  Lastly, the LOWER dosage you can get to before jumping off completely, the better.  When I worked in a Sub clinic, the doc I worked with recommended that her patients tapered down to at least 0.5mg/day before stopping all together, if not lower.  

If you do a proper taper, you will be able to get off the Subs.  You just have to be realistic about the process.  It's a long one, that requires patience.  You will still most likely suffer SOME level of w/d symptoms, and there are ways to deal with those.  The Thomas recipe (search the forum here for info) will help to ease w/ds, also, your doctor can Rx non habit forming meds to help as well.

MOST importantly, what kind of WORK have you done on your recovery while you were on Subs?  Did you go to therapy?  Meetings?  I can NOT stress enough that if you ONLY took Sub and didn't do any of the necessary WORK to learn about addiction, learn about YOUR addiction,  learn coping strategies, and learn all about the dynamics of relapse, especially the early stages and how to handle that.....then your chances of relapse are very high.  Just taking the Sub unfortunately isn't "recovery".

Hopefully you have a decent Sub doctor who will help you devise a taper plan, set some goals, and work with you along the way.  Often times, taper plans need to be adjusted, and having a doc who understands that is paramount to making that process more tolerable.  If you DON'T feel your doc will be that person, then find a new sub doctor.

Very best to you!
Helpful - 0
7163794 tn?1457366813
COMMUNITY LEADER
I saw your post this morning and I can so relate!  I was on the subs for  years, for a 7 year opiate addiction.  I quit the subs c/t on Jan 1, 2014.  They do numb you out just like opiates do, b/c they are a damn opiate!  If you don't mind me asking, what mg are you on? My dr had me on 24mg a day for the entire time I was seeing her (she was making bank, I am cash pay). I had no idea how hard and long the w/d were going to be and I didn't taper correctly the way others on here did, I tapered for about 2 weeks which was a big mistake!  Are you wanting to quit?
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Avatar universal
I know you posted the comment I just read 6 years ago but I am hoping you will see my comment. Suboxone maintenence is not for everybody. It's definitely not for me but I've been on it for 6 years now and I'm wondering if I'll ever get off of this poison. My emotions are so blunted that I don't feel alive anymore. This does not happen to everyone but it happened to me. I wish I could go to a detox facility like people who are addicted to vicodin or even heroine because if they use suboxone for just 5 days they will start to feel better. There's no medication for suboxone withdrawal. I feel stuck. All I do is think about how to get off of this drug. I've been suffering for so long and I don't think I can take much more. I'm getting tired mentally and I'm having a hard time sleeping and I just don't know what to do with myself anymore. I've always been a very sensitive person and my emotions helped me enjoy life. Now I'm lost.
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Avatar universal
I too have used suboxone for dependency on opiates. I actually have used it on a long term basis and it has been about 11 months I have been on 8-16 mg a day. I've tried wd before from it and couldn't believe how ****** I felt and turned back to subs. I am now 7 days in free of subs and still feeling all those wonderful wds. I have kids work and life that goes on and I have been taking a few hydros to alleviate the discomfort. I know how opiate wd is and I think I can handle that better than the sub wd.
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Avatar universal
Wow, the threads here shock me. I can't believe how one persons comments scares everyone.....suboxone is great! Do you people ever think that only the PROBLEMS are being posted here. Do you think the thousands of people that had good experiences and success with suboxone will waste their time ( wasting is probably the way the think) coming to this website and writing how good their experience has been. Most of these people read these horrible stories and expect exactly that when they finish, that's why it's so bad. I have been on 4 80s oxy daily for 2 years, did a 40 day taper with suboxone, started with12 mgs a day, got down to .5 every other day, you genius' do the math.....and had none to very very minimal withdrawals for 5-6 days tops. Imprint this message in your head and stop reading all this nonsense from people that don't take sub the right way, and do Oxys 2 days then 5 days subs cuz they are soooooo poor, boo hoo. That's not how u take it. make a plan, stick to it.....and stop crying about withdrawals, u are SUPPOSED to have withdrawals because of the many years of garbage you put in your veins, noses, down your throats.
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1645684 tn?1356649600
I've been rummaging this site and others since i discovered it ten hours ago, and I must say, I'm getting really discouraged. I was taking subs for a year but never took the stupid high doses my money hungry doctor told me to. I usually stuck between 2-4mg a day, yet I was still shooting heroin and OC's whenever I got paid for a couple days, then going back to subs when I ran out of money. I went to rehab and failed multiple times. They put us on a 7 day rapid detox program using, of course, more suboxone. So after it was done I went through extreme pain for 6 days, a fellow rehabitant gave me a sub, I eventually ran out, more pain, another rehabitant sold me heroin.. lots of it. I eventually felt guilty and admitted to my actions and turned myself in and went to another rehab and had to ct off the subs. This started off fairly easy, then days 4 and 5 were hell. I've had MUCH worse from methadone, but still.. no picnic by any means. So I had the typical diharreah, sweats, extreem depression/enxiety, sneezes, ect. The 4th and 5th day I legit wanted to die, but after about day 7 things slowly got better. Now, I returned home after 16 days and still felt completely unmotivated/lethargic. Getting up off the couch was equivelant to running a marathon, just shaving or brushing my teeth were actions only to be fantasized about because having the energy to perform these trivial tasks was out of the question. So I relapsed once I had to go back to work. I wish I would have hung in there because that was 6 months ago and I'd probably be fine now. But I started shooting up, dated a girl, she helped me get clean, and I stopped getting high. However, I couldnt stop taking subs for more than a day or two without freaking out with major anxiety attacks. The girl I fell madly in love with eventually had to leave me. I want to finish getting clean now more than ever, not just to get back with her which I know she wants if I can pull this off, but just for the sake of being clean and healthy and not reliant on anything else. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. But I'm only on day 2 now, feeling ok, but reading more posts gets me more discouraged. I've been struggling with wanting to stay alive and talking myself out of suicide on a daily basis, even WITH the subs. So hearing people say they still feel like **** after 4 months... it's hard. I read some posts on ******.com like someone mentioned, and that just added to it. I'm glad I'm informed.. but I would love to hear some success stories.. if there are any. Idk, I dont want anyone to lie to me just to ease my nerves, I'm just praying to god that I can have the strength to go through the wds without my dad catching on and kicking me out to homelessness again or losing my job..
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Avatar universal
I was on subs for 1 full year starting at 8mg/day then dropping to 4mg/day 3 months in and then 2mg/day another 3 months then 1mg/day another 3 months.  You will tell a difference when you decrease your dosage, but it is nothing like an opiate WD.  My doctor & suboxone saved my life, been clean for a year (in a couple days!) and don't think too often about abusing opiates unless i see a trigger (blades, pill bottles, people I used to run with).  I wasn't scared to taper off, I had actually requested to and was ready after the amount of time i was on them.  

Send me a message if anyone has specifics, day 14 off the subway each day is getting better.
Miles
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Avatar universal
i to was on subs for sixs months and my doc winged me off and it was nothing compared to the full affect from opiate w\d.as long as u dont stay on it that long and u get on a lower dose each month u wii be fine.ive been clean a year and i dont even think about goin back to opiates
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Avatar universal
Yes, sorry you are right and I was wrong.   I took 8mg, 4mg. twice a day.  I have been trying to do this without support of my doctor due to lack of insurance but I  made  a appointment tomorrow morning.  The w/d are still bad but no sleep in 3 days, cannot eat anything.  I am 58 years old with high blood pressure so decided I better see her.

I thank God for finding this sight on my computer.  I know I could not have made it this far without all the people going through this.  I plan to share it with my doctor tomorrow.

Thanks to everyone and I just hope everyone will just hang in there.
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Avatar universal
BTT
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198154 tn?1337787265
sorry but I think your confussed.  Its not even possible to take 80mg of Suboxone a day.
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Avatar universal
Now are you certain that you are taking 40mg of suboxone twice daily?  Thats over the ceiling of the medication.....I believe that the max effective dose is at 32mg....that would mean that you are taking 48 more milligrams than will even be utilized...Something is off base here.....your SubDoc should know that the medication is to be dosed once daily...and thats an important part of the therapy according to our SubDoc... Post again or PM me ... I would like to discuss this with you.............
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Avatar universal
It has been 3 weeks now since I stoped taking Saboxin 40mg. 2 times a day for one year.   Dr. said to cut down 20 per day for 4 days.  I am still so very sick shakes, cold sweats, hot flashes and debelating depression.  Was on Vicodan for 2 years before.  Have been on this sight for 1 and half weeks which is the only way I know about saboxin w/d and I think everyone.   I guess what I am asking is it ever going to get better?  I am so desperate at this point.  Cannot eat except juice or ice cream. Vicodan only took about 2 weeks which I have done too many times.  Took 1/2 tramadol last night for the restless legs.  Is this a bad idea?  I've tried to take all the advice on this board can anyone help me at this point?
Helpful - 0
147172 tn?1226758178
I took sub for about 17 ays or so. I started off at 12 mg then went down to .25 mg every other day for 3 rounds.  My withdrawals were VERY minimal.  I had valium and that was able to really REALLY help.  I got up every day and felt like **** for a week or two but it was NOTHING compared to the numerous times I tried quitting my 30-40 10mg perc a day habit.
I believe from MY experience that because I stuck to a taper, which again, was easier to stick to than the taper from a full agonist opiate, stayed hydrated, took vitamins, exercised (and I HATE to exercise) and did the crumb every other day thing, that it wasn't that bad.
There is a site heroin-detox ******* (can't put it in the exact format) that has forums specifically for people on and coming off of sub that you should check out.
I hitnk that your best best is to get off within a month and get down to the lowest possible amount you can handle.  I didn't feel ANY of my dropsi n dosage until I got to the very other day dosing.
BUT, if you get on and off within a month and don't do anything afterwards you will inevitably find yurself back inthe same boat beause NOTHING CHANGES IF NOTHING CHANGES.
Sub might help physically and it might work better for some than it does for others BUT if you don't work on the core issues of why you wound up having to take it in the first place, you WILL relapse and the second time is SO MUCH harder than the first.  I know everyone LOVES to say that relapse is part of recovery but it doesn't have to be and I hope for you it isn't.
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617347 tn?1331293081
thanks for both, your experience and the congrats !

shelwoy, i've always take as a big truth the sayin that there are not illnesses but patients ( i'm not sure about my translation but you know what i mean .. :) ) i can see from your words that sub is helping you with your life not only with your addiction to opiatesin other aspects  and as long as it's being good for you, i can not and don't want adding more, great  then . i can understand very well. yeah.

and good luck , yes , the best luck  for all of us in whatever we choose for us ...)

at the end, we are all trying to do our best ...
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Avatar universal
I guess at the end of the day it is a very personal choice and decision based on your specific needs.  Regardless of anyones opinions on suboxone or even methadone, the bottom line is that most of us take these drugs because we want to change our lives and be free of our addiction.  I would never discourage anyone from doing whatever they had to do to get to that place in their lives.  I do feel a bit unlucky when I hear positive sub stories from people who have used long term AND gotten off sub long term without too many problems --because it wasn't that way for me..I followed my doctors advice to the tee.. he also had me talking to a psychologist he worked with.  There were months when I struggled with tapering, like going from 8mg to 4mg and would see the doctor right away when that happened.  He told me to up the dosage for a few more months.  A bit of mild withdrawal came to me with every taper.  When I finally got down to 2mg he said I should be fine quitting that cold turkey.. but after 5 days of severe withdrawal I went to see him and he said cut it down to 1mg.  I quit after taking 1mg for about 4 months.  The day before I quit I left his office all teary eyed cause I was so happy it was over - I got a big hug, a big pat on the back and a promise that I would have very little to zero withdrawal.  I can't say he lied cause he is a good doctor who treated me well, but he was not fully informed.  Withdrawal is a price we have to pay for being addicts.  Sub is something that works wonders to give people (myself included) a sense of well-being and normalcy in their lives.  At the end of the whole thing, having used drugs, having used sub and having quit sub, I think that beyond the physical he11 of sub withdrawal and the length of time that withdrawal lasts, for me it was purely the mental part of the withdrawal - the depression and very dark places I went mentally over the past 48 days.  Ive used for years and detoxed many times.  I know withdrawal and I also know that depression comes with any detox.  I have never been a depressed person but have experienced it at other detox times.  But the entire sub detox was different for me and I relate it to the long term sub use and have spoken to others with the same.  However my experience will not be everyone elses and I truly believe that we are all just trying to get clean and live differently and I commend and applaud all of us for making these decisions and doing everything we can to stay in it.  Best of luck to all.
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643717 tn?1224554218
Ahhhhhh so there are some positive stories on how the sub helped, with minimal wd's, thank god they werent all negative !! I agree with Shelwoy on her outlook about being on the sub, as long as it is helping her lead a " normal ' life and she not using, than be all means why not be on it ? This is only day 17 or 18 for me, and like my dr told me, " if i had diabetes and i had to be on medication to treat that for an extended time / or life, i would do it ? right ? I agreed with him. As long as im not using, nor have the urge to use, and i'm feeling good, like my old normal self than why would i opt not to use it ? I know what almost everyone here said about the severe wd's when it is time to stop, but did they, and please dont take this the wrong way or be angry with me, but did they follow their  dr's advise, treatment plan, take the sub according to the directions, go to weekly meetings, therapy, group meetings,and then taper while being in close contact with their dr's ? If so then I apologize and guess i have a long road ahead of me and i really do appreciate all the advise all of you have given. I am tapering down like i said i would, started at 16mg a day, now im down to 6 mg a day, and today i took only 4mg which im going to do for the next 2 or 3 days then taper down even more...all the best to all of you.......Mark.
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614557 tn?1243708351
oh, and by the way... Congratulations on your thirty days of being clean.
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614557 tn?1243708351

The reason I am still on Suboxone after a year is because I am in a treatment program, that is teaching me how to live life without the insanity of drug seeking behaviors that have almost ruined my life.Also, because I have a anxiety disorder that was misdiagnosed numerous times, and after some 30 years, I have more stability than I ever have in the past.
I have taken it upon myself to get as much education on addiction  and my personal disorder as possible.I find that my success is measured by the way I live my life, not by how long I take a certain drug.The day will come when I will one day be off of Suboxone, and it may be tough- but I would have no problem taking it indefinately if it has helped me to have the life I do today.I do not intend on taking it forever, and the program I am in believes in long term tapering- nothing they have done so far has proven to be negative to my recovery, and I have trusted the process all the way.
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Avatar universal
My son kicked methadone using a slow three month taper on suboxone. His WDs were minimal- never missed work.He tapered down to 2 mgs fairly quickly and then dropped .25 every 5-10 days. To do this he got the 2mg tablets and cut them with a pill cutter into tiny pieces( 1/8 of the 2mg tab). After he was down to .25 a day for five days,- he started an every other day skip, Then every  three days, every four days and every five days.
The WDs he experienced lasted about a week and then cleared up. He is off over three months now- and despite chronic back pain- has not gone back out.
I am not sure why his experience was a more positive one than some here. I know he was really ready- he had done a lot of the addictive habit breaking work during his two years on methadone. Also he was on for longer than the quick detox- but not so long as some. He also started an antidepressent about three weeks before his final jump.
One thing for sure- he made a plan and stuck to it. It was long and low and it worked.
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Avatar universal
Personally for me and in my experience if I could go back I would have went to 10 day detox like my original plan and NEVER gone on sub.  That is my experience only though.
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617347 tn?1331293081
correction ( again in me ) : a sort of syndrome of stockholm answer.. ( sorry ).
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617347 tn?1331293081
and why not asking also about relapses after being on sub, used as prescribed and taper as directed too ?  are there any ? this is another thing i find myself curious, sorry.


but when i came to think about your question,  isn't it  a little bit strange ?, all of us wanna be free of addiction...if a stranger  had kidnapped me and took me away and hold me until i was  free of my addiction and someone asked me the same without the choice of  " try something different"....  I can swear i'd rather be free of my addiction, oh, la lá i would even marry him afterwards , that would be a sort of syndrome of stockholm question considering what addiction means for us , something like that .

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