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recovery

I have been addicted to hydrocodone on and off for the past three years. (100 mg) per day.  I have recently went through detox, and am wondering how long it will take before the strong cravings stop.  I know I need a plan of recovery, and am working on that right now.  Can anyone suggest things to do to help me get through this?
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This is a good forum, so read some of the earlier posts.  There is a topic of hydocodone use.  I would suggest finding an NA meeting soon.  You need support going through these withdrawls.
The cravings will eventually quit, but they pop up from time to time.  Have you been having using dreams?  They are not unual so be prepared.  The recipe to get you natural endorphins back is listed in the earlier posts.  You can make it.  We are a bunch of folks who welcome you to this post.  We will try to help you.
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CONGRATS, I have been clean for about 6 weeks, with 1 relapse for 3 days due to a surgery.  I was taking 160mg of oxycontin a day. The sober lifestyle is GREAT but also very very HARD.  You can do this.  #1 try to go out and buy a multi vitamin, some 5htp, zinc, L-tyrosine and some magnesium.  I strongly suggest the 5htp and L-tyrosine, it works very well for the depression and cravings. Other then that, you need to keep your head, stay strong and EXCERSICE, get off your butt and do something.  That is what has helped me.  In anycase, I would say after a couple of weeks, the real physical pains from cravings will go away. Its tough to say when they will go away, sometimes they don't go away, Its up to you. One thing is for sure. IT GETS EASIER EVERYDAY SOBER DAY THAT PASSES.  Take it day by day, or hour by hour, or even minute by minute. ITS DOABLE!!! Keep you head up.
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Thanks for your support.  I have been reading other comments, and they do seem to help.  This actually is not the first time I have detoxed, but I certainly hope it is the last.  I have a 7 year old son who needs me... the real me.  It just seems like after 2 months or so, the void inside is so deep that I think doing a few pills will make everything alright.  but of course I end up right back here.  Still looking for my happy place.....
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im glad your doing well,but why do you think you relapsed?I dont think you should look at it that way- you passed a test with flying colors-you were reponsable,selfcontroled,took the bare minimun and laughed that monster right in his face- so be proud- i am for you-your a great role model for us all
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Don't feel much like a role model, but thank you anyway.  I think I really started using heavily after I lost my little girl.  I was only 5 mos. pregnant, but I still lost her.  After that we (my husband & I) really started hitting the online pharmacies and other doc's.  What is the ole saying "one's too many and a thousand ain't enough".  Anyway, that's where we are.  Tired of living in a mask.  I've forgot who the real me is anymore, but I going to look for her.
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"one is too many, and a thousand never enough"  yeah, that is from the basic text.  how true it is.  i cannot use successfully.
the disease that is inside me is a progressive one whether dormant or in use.  after 3 relapses on dilaudid, i found myself back at the methadone clinic.  it saved my life.  i do not recommend methadone for other addicts.  i've detoxed before from it after using it for 2 years.
you can make it, i was clean for 6 months after i got off methadone.  i made 90 meetings in 90 days plus.  if you need help, and you do if you have children, this is a great post.  but there is a real world out there.  the recipe helps many people, although i've not tried it myself.  please try to quit your habit, if not for yourself, for your precious children.  you can do it for the right reason later down the line.  good luck, ava
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I know this is not the best resource for recovery, but it does make me feel better to talk to people that have been there.  We really want to make this one work for us.  This time we have "come out of the closet" so to speak and told the people around us, i.e., family and close friends, of our problem.  Excuse me, disease.  Maybe with all the moral support around us, we will be able to succeed.  One thing that really helped us through the withdrawls this time was an "addiction doctor"  he gave us some meds to get through it.  All be it sedated, but none the less get through it.  If anyone is interested in the meds, they were clonidine (bp helps the crawling skin feeling), phenobarb, (helps the spasms), methocarbamol, for the tummy (still needed imodium (immodium) for diareah), and dicyclomine, (not sure what that one was for). Anyway, we have made it past the hump (Thank you God), and are just taking each minute at a time right now.
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It sounds like you did what it is going to take to get clean.  The clonidine is to keep all the drugs from rushing out of your system at once as well as BP.  The declomycin? is a tetracycline.
I do not know why he gave you that.  If that is the drug you meant, I just have an easy access on my computer to look them up. I also was an RN before my addiction got so bad.
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No, it was dicyclomine (brand name Bentyl).  I got this one time for "irrital bowel syndrome".  Yes, we are on the road to recovery.
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I'm a mom too and believe me I understand. Two things worked for me. #1 whenever I think about the escape from a pill I remember the last 3 days of my last relapse. The part when I was projectile vomiting, speaking in a foreign language and begging for God to just let me die,  is an image I keep in the forfront of my mind. What were you doing the last 3 days before you had to detox? I was frantically planning how I would explain yet again to family why I had this "horrible flu". I could go on with the details but your version is way more important than mine. DO NOT FORGET THE AGONY!
and #2, I also have an addict husband and the only way I seem to be making it this time is by not saying "we" anymore. I refer to myself and my recovery now. It's hard enough for me to stay sober for myself, I just can't afford to worry about his too. I come first for this part of my life. I hear you saying we alot,so thats why I mentioned it.It might help to have a partner do this with you but, your recovery is yours. OK? Now go kiss your 7 year old and think of something to be grateful for. I cooked for my kids this weekend WOW what a concept no McDonalds in front of the TV for them!!!
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you are sooo right.  This is MY recovery, we just happen to be doing it at the same time.  One of the reasons I wanted to become clean is I was so tired of making excuses all the time when "I had the flu"  I mean, for Christ's sake, you can only have the flu so many times and I used that one up very fast.  Anyway, thank you for your kindness and your words.  I will hold on to them.  I am very lucky, today my sister is cooking dinner for us and she has had my son since Friday.  Could not have done it without her.  I'm calling a drug and alcohol counselor tomorrow to set up an appointment.  "I" need more than NA right now.  Not sure if I really dealt with the death of my daughter completely, and I want to give it everything I can.  So now's as good a time as any.
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I feel so out of line busting in here, but I just feel that I need help. Lately my life has been getting more and more out of control. I am absolutely terrified, not only because vicodin seems to have taken over my life, but now I'm afraid I'm using my insurance fraudulantly. Does anyone know about the consequences of "doctor shopping" and if you've used your medical insurance to do it? I've been to about 9 different urgent cares in the past month to get vicodin and I've used my medical insurance everytime. I'm starting to wonder if I could get in big trouble for this. I want to stop, I want the cravings to stop, and I want to have a clear head again. Anyone with thoughts on this, please respond.
Scared in so cal
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Dear Scared in so cal:
I have used my insurance many times as well, but I think the only thing they would do is maybe try to make you pay for the prescriptions.  If you had a prescription written by a real doctor, then I do not believe they would try to get you for fraudalent prescriptions.  You sound exactly where I used to be, and believe me searching for meds is almost as worse than detoxing.  (almost), but not to scare you, as I said earlier, I went to an addiction doctor who helped me go through withdrawls that made it much easier.  I URGE you to try to find someone now! It only gets worse with time.
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Thank you so much for responding. I'm happy to hear that someone is doing well, it gives me just a little bit of hope. I have also been to a addiction specialist and relapsed everytime. I think he is sick of the sight of my face, I've gone to him to detox at least 7 or 8 times, once in the hospital. I'm scared that I am an individual who is unrehabilitable, I've heard there are people like that. I went to another urgent care today and I'm just disgusted with myself right now. I think being on so many pills will make you paranoid as well, I still fear that my insurance will get me in trouble not just for the prescriptions, but for misrepresenting myself to these doctors. I think a few of them suspected I was only there for vicodin because more than one has asked "are you seeing any other doctors?". Everything about the whole situation scares me.
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hello there - i was curious why you advised that other opiate addicts not use methadone to help their recovery?
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Scared in Cal,  You can get into trouble for doctor hopping.  Stop while you are ahead.  You can go to an addictionologist or the ER.  They will give you something to ease the withdrawls.  The pills often lead to the needle.  You do not want to be where I have gone.  I could have been killed for my cash while I was so messed up on dilaudids.  I could have od'd.  I could have gone to jail.  I kicked dilaudids twice at home without medical attention except that I am a nurse who gave up her license.  Addicts cannot use successfully.  If you have any doubts about addiction, look at your behavior.  Good Luck and God be with you.

Slant,  I had no idea you were dealing with the death of a child.
You do need some grief therapy.  I empathize with you.  I will thank God once more for my daughter tonight.  I am glad you are doing well with the detox.  Keep on keeping on.  Ava
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I am on methadone for the second time around.  I stayed on for 2 years and detoxed.  I had 6 months clean when I started relapsing.  I relapsed 3 times, and methadone saved my life this time.  Many people are not used to going to a clinic and being able to dose as high as 100 + mg of methadone.  That more than takes care of their withdrawal symptoms.  Then they have another habit.  
To be on methadone, you have to be aware of the antagonist drugs you cannot take as well as Cipro.  You need to know that you will have hot flashes and may gain weight.  It slows down all of your body's systems.  You have to be responsible to be on methadone.  I am responsible for my dose which will be 80mg next week.  I just went through an abdominal hyst with removal of both ovaries and oral surgery.  I increased my dose to 90mg for extra pain control.  I like to keep my dose around 60-70mg as long as I am not craving.  
I guess that is why I do not recommend methadone to others.  The clinics rarely tell you the things you need to know.  I researched methadone to know what I was into.  I also get the NIDA newsletter.  It is free.  Just log on to their site and they will send it cost free.  They recommend high dose methadone and counselling.  I get counselling at my clinic as well as group therapy.  NIDA states there is a 75% success rate with that combination.  But methadone has a bad rap due to irresponsible addicts and old wives tales.  
That is all basically.
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Groovygirl- I totally agree with you.  My ex is/was (not sure anymore) a herion addict who was on and off methadone... I can't count the number of times.  He told me that kicking methadone was much harder than herion.  If the whole goal here is to be drug free, then why trade one for the other.  Especially if your using vic's.  Methadone is much stronger.  I thought about going to the clinic, but decided against it.  The last thing I need is something stronger to get off of.  Not to say that some people do need it and I'm sure it is life saving.
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I'm sorry, I meant to send that message to Angst.  My mistake.  Anyway, I enjoy talking with all of you.  It really does make me feel better.
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Let me tell you all about a "Funny" situation.... Well not funny to most people, but it kind of just makes me shake my head in utter disgust. anyhow, here goes:

With all the bad press about Oxycontin and about how addictive/deadly it is, I thought, "Hey, just one time I'd like to try that stuff!"  So, the story goes that I got a hold of 2 40 mg tablets (because I want the WHOLE effect, dammit!) and took BOTH within 4 hours. I took the 1st one just like you're supposed to (Swallow whole) but after about an hour, I felt NOTHING! so, I crushed up the second one, ate it along with some good coffee, and the TOTAL effect I got was about like 2-3 codeine used to be(practically no buzz). Now, These WERE the real thing, as my brother was in LalA land for a good 1-2 hours...

There is ONLY ONE THING that could possibly explain this: I used to be an ULTRAM junkie (15-20 or more per day) -now I just take 3-6 per day to control my neuropathy... I had taken 2 this morning....

Well, I read that Tramadol is an ANTAGONIST and hydrocodone is an AGONIST.  So what happened here? did they cancel each other out? Anyway, that was my last time experimenting with OXY.. and some people pay $1.00 a Mg for that ****?!
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I guess that's funny, all I know is that everyone I know that's taken them say they are the __it!!  With my personality, that's the last thing I need.  Anyway, I've taken Ultram so I wouldn't get sick before, but of course no buzz.  I have a bad back, and they didn't help even then.  My question to you... do you need to take Ultram for pain or are you just dependent on them?  And, if you are just dependent on them, why take Ultram?
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I don't mean to bug, but you mentioned that you were a nurse so maybe you know more than I do. What kind of trouble would I be in for doctor hopping? Would I be thrown in the slammer? I have tried going to an addiction doctor but I keep relapsing. I've also tried NA, but I get so anxious around people that I end up getting high just to get myself there. I really think that I'm starting to hit the bottom though. I'm tired of this lifestyle and I'm tired of hiding it from everyone. I even hide all the pills I take from my boyfriend. He's dealt with so many of my relapses that he wouldn't tolerate another one, I just know it. So all of this drug abuse weighs heavy on my mind everyday. How do I keep hiding it? Does everyone know? Is everyone eventually going to find out? These are the things that occupy my mind, day in and day out, and I'm tired, so tired of it. Thanks to all for letting me vent.
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The oxy you swallowed was time release, and apparently you have a high opiate tolerance. The second one you swallowed crushed did not have the time release characteristic, but again, there's your natural tolerance.

Frankly, I'm glad you didn't get off on the oxy. You don't need an addiction to this stuff. It's worse than heroin to get off in my opinion.

Finally, I'm not too certain that you understand that the people on this site are sincerely trying to get OFF drugs of all sorts. We really don't have much interest in helping someone experiment with oxy or anything else. Or have I missed something here?

Why don't you get that pistol out of your mouth?

Francois
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tue morn. 830  
i was going to skip reading the post.
As you can see i am here and really enjoyed reading the post.
the topic is right on the bull's eye.  getting clean and staying clean off perc's ,oxy's,vic's  what ever.
Lets just do it.stay clean  any way we can.
Im 43 and have been going to na meetings for 28 years.
I am lucky to be alive,iwould say more than half the people ive known who used to go to meeting /stop by meetings/ visit meetings.
are gone ,very gone ,dead. so this is a the front line of life people die.

saying all that  keep america beautiful stay clean
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At the risk of sounding rude are you not the person who has oxy in your freezer? Yes I know you take them legit for pain but dont blast him. we are all at different levels here. yes I desperatly want to get off. I have not had anything since sun except the halfs of ultram to keep me from getting sick. But realistically I have to have major surgery may 9th and until after that I know I cant call myself clean. We are in love with drugs we like to romanticize them. Sometimes I just like hearing that someone else is using. Sorry to blast off but go easy on him frank. If I had drugs in front of me I would do them too
Badd
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Today is a great day.  I slept well, and got up and got my son ready for school and took him.  We had a good morning.  I have to keep remembering it's the small things that count.

To scared in so cal,  please try one more time.  I don't think there is ever a time to give up on yourself.  You can do it if you want to.  Remember, taking pills just masks everything around you, and you are the only one that can make it happen.  NA meetings were hard for me too, because I felt that my addiction was not as bad as everyone's there.  But, now I realize an addiction is an addiction whether it's drugs, alcohol, food and even exercising.  My sister-in-law is addicted to exercise.  Can't live without it.  That's my goal, to find something positive and good for myself to replace the void.  Anyway, please don't give up and try it at least one more time, if not for yourself this time, for your boyfriend.  Then maybe in time you will do it for the right reason.  FOR YOUR LIFE!!!
Best of luck and keep us posted.
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Francois, Please don't get me wrong... I have struggled with addiction for a LONG time (mainly alcohol, that I'm currently OFF of thanks to AA, and people like to good people here!)... and perhaps It was inappropriate to share my OXY experience here. I just wanted to get an IDEA of WHY I reacted in the manner that I did. To answer the person that asked me why I just don't quit ULTRAM.. It is for pain, but more importantly, I'm addicted to the stuff. I know it sounds weird, and most people that have tried it just stop using it without any bad effects. but for me, and MY screwy brain chemistry, it COMPETELY takes away all my Neuropathic pain, (When lower doses of Opiates didn't), and if I don't get any within a 12 hour period, I go into full out withdrawl (withdrawal)... just like some of you described coming off Vicoden, Percocets, OXY or any other strong opiate.
If somebody HAS an idea, please tell me! I don't think I have a "Natural" tolerance THAT high... the most opiates I ever did in a one-month time period was a bottle of 60 Percocets!

Thanks guys,
Jess
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Oh, By the way - Thanks!
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Dear Jess:
I understand your situation.  I saw on another web site that going off of Ultram was just as bad as any other opiate.  Doctor's are prescribing them, I think, because they say they have a low level of abuse.  But, obviously, they are wrong again. Is there any other non-narcotic pain reliever that may help with the pain.  I don't know how bad it is, but for my lower back pain I started doing exercises for my back, and it helped alot.  I also have to take ibuprofen occasionally.  Anyway, not trying to step out of line here, but to me it would be even worse to be addicted to something that I didn't get high on.  Have you tried to locate an addiction doctor.  I know I keep saying this, but it made the withdrawls soooo much easier for me.  Good luck.
slant
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Thanks for taking the time to answer...

In regards to other painkillers, it seems that Ultram is the ONLY thing that works... I can't complain, however, because all I ever wanted was to be free of the pain in the first place! Ultram doesn't make you "High", but the fact that it takes away ALL the pain, and I mean ALL of it... That is a HIGH by itself to me. My body chemistry must be fairly messed up, because when I was in the hospital a while ago for some killer abdominal pain, (turned out to be impacted in the colin... not fun at all.)they had me on several IV narcotics, ending with morphine, and nothing was REALLY helping. Finally, one of the doctors was reading my chart, and noticed that I was on ULTRAM, and said "That explains it!"-- They then let the Narcotics wear off for about 8 hours, them gave me Tramadol via IV. That totally fixed everything. NO PAIN, and felt somewhat giddy. So I guess I am somewhat lucky in regards to the fact that opiates just don't get me off, so I doubt I'll ever have a problem with them... on the "Bad" side of that issue, I hope that if I'm ever in a car wreck, or some accident where I will REALLY need some good pain relief, that they will listen to me, and not go the opiate route with me...

Thanks, and that is all for now!
Jess
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so scared,   they will catch you.  doctors talk amonst one another about patients often without mentioning names.  a patient is a disease to most in the health field and that is how we identify them.  if three doctors were discussing your case and it sounded identical to them all,  they would check records.
Also the pharmacy will call doctors and let them know you are doctor hopping, as will your insurance.  I've only known one addict on Lortabs get caught by law enforcement.  Then he was put on probation with court ordered NA meetings.  If you continue, you will get caught.  If you are an addict, and I know I will get some negative feedback on this one, there are 21 day detoxes at most methadone clinics.  If you stick to your guns, stay responsible, you could do that along with NA.  I do not recommend methadone to anyone who cannot be responsible for their dose.  If you allow yourself to get to 100+mg, then you were not responsible.  All addicts can't be.
Jesse,  It was either the antagonist in ultram or your high tolerance.  I do not think the 40mg oxycontin gives the boost of many immediate release opiates on a lower schedule.  It is different when you shoot it.  If you had washed the coating off, crushed the pills, added H2O, cooked, and strained, then shoot it, you would probably gotten the effect of heroin, or close to it.  Stay clean.  The ultram is less dangerous than all the opiates.  It also works on a different center in the brain.
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Thanks for your input....

Yes, I'm sure that if I were into shooting, It would be a different story (how good it felt, etc..) but, Luckily, I never got into shooting ANYTHING. Not because I was afraid of needles or AIDS, but because I watched 2 friends die of a herion O.D. when I was only 15. Every time since then that I've been around anyone who's shooting up (Which has been quite a bit as I was in a couple of traveling Metal bands in the 80's), I'm so afraid that they're not going to wake up when they start nodding, that I end up sticking around to make sure they DON'T die.

Thanks again for your post,
And............. Keep posting!

Jess
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Hi there. I was reading the other posts and wanted to share my experience.... I wenst to see 2 (only 2) doc and my insurance called both physicians to let them know they were dispensing Vicodin ES at the same time... Conclusion, none of those doc want to see me again and my insurance was nice enough (being sarcastic) to let my specialists know about my problem... (OB, dentist...).  I have bad endimitriosis and migraines and trust me, I know I abused those drugs but I do need some pain control. I have been clean since Feb 4th..it has been tough but I manage. I have been dreaming about those pills and way to get them but I really burned my bridges. What does bother me is that these doctors, that got me ADDICTED make me feel like a criminal. What they should have said is: "how can we help you?". Anyway, just be careful... Thanks for listenning.
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I don't understand where the thought that Ultram is an antagonist comes from.  There are quite a few people that take Ultram when they run out of their meds to keep the wd at bay.  If Ultram was an antagonist, it would cause people to go into wd instead of helping it stay away.  I was prescribed both ultram and vicodin es back in '98 before my first spinal fusion.  They both seemed to compliment each other very nicely.  The ultram certainly didn't keep the vicodin from working.  Ultram is not an antagonist, it just works differently depending on the condition you have.  Helps some, but doesn't help others.  A true antagonist would send you into withdrawal if you have opiates in your system, not help wd symptoms.
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i to was prescribed ultram and vikes at the same time and they
did work fine together. Also i would use the ultram to keep take w/d from the vikes at bay. The ultram was just ok for pain, i often would try to stop taking the vikes and just the ultram was fine untill i ran out of ultram then the **** would hit the fan as far as withdrawls.
I did have a question ,  my dr. switched the ultram to ultracet
because he said it was less addictive. Do you have any information about this drug and it's difference from ultram.
I do know from my experence that it preety much seems the same ,as far as helping detox of the vikes and it still has it own w/d symptoms simlar to the ultram. I just wondered why he changed it.
i still have ultracet around the house, my wife holds them.  I am 26 day off everything today. cold turkey just the receipe.
Also i have heard people mention 5htp , i know they sell it at the vitamine shop for like 30.00 andthe l-tyrosine is 17.00
Do you know what the 5htp is and is it something like thr tyro.

good to see your post and thanks for any info.   michael.
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ultram is not an antagonist as i earlier thought.  after some reference, it is an agonist and attaches to opiate receptors.
ultram has both phyche and phyiological w/d.
ultracet is ultram and acetaminophen mixed.  it also attaches to the opiate receptors, except for the tylenol which works at a different area in the brain.  
both are abused by addicts.  my source stated not to prescribe either to opiate addicts.  it could be an easy gateway drug.
when it came onto the market at work, we thought it was just like tylenol except it worked at a different place in the brain to stop pain.  i expect we will be hearing more from ultram.
just like the stadol ns, it is not scheduled.  the stadol ns is now after a doctor lost his son and thousands have been addicted to stadolns.  now there is a class action suit against stadol ns.
Thanks for setting us straight Mr Michael.
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i am sorry but i am lost again- as i understand it meth does not give you a high but can give good pain control,it has a long half life making withdrawl (withdrawal) prolonged if attempted cold turkey,so why is it bad if you need more then 100 mg to control pain or withdrawl (withdrawal) symptoms?you dont get a buzz,so your not abusing it for that so why oncw again is it wrong to get relief and should someone suffer if they Need more then a preconcieved limit? This is a point that is giving me a lot of problems as i am trying to make my next move and plan,is it really that i am to be made a failure for having pain no matter what i choose ?
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You do get a buzz from methadone.  It is nothing like dilaudid, but it is a boost that you feel.  The higher the dose, the more boost.  It is good for chronic pain.  Consider what you take now for the pain and find the equivalent dose of methadone.  Stay there or below to be responsible.  Any clinic or doctor will detox you from methadone.  Only real nuts jump from 100mg.  They do not advertise it, but the new standards that came out this year regarding methadone will allow you under a doctor's order go up to 150mg.  I am on methadone and I am responsible about it.
Since I was on it for 2 years before this time, I am not required to attend group.  I attend counselling and group therapy.  I want to get something for my money and myself.  It does not deserve the bad rap it gets.  If you go to a clinic, you will see what I'm talking about irresponsible addicts.  You can buy just about anything in the parking lot.  You have to be strong and mean.
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i am sorry i still dont understand- do you get a tolerance with time? my doctor is sugesting that i just use methadone- no clinic just buy it at drugstore for pain control,the pharmist says they stock it and it would be no promblem,what are you talking about clinics? and take home? as far as i found out it will just be a regular rx.so what is the promblem with methadone? I will get a thirty day supply a month just like the oxycotin
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angst:  I agree with you, when my "ex" was on methadone he was on a maintenance program, and if I'm not mistaken their main goal is to ween you down to about 30 miligrams (Then you need to go see Dr. Jones - addiction doctor).  When he was responsible, he could go through his day very normally, but he got tired of going to the clinic, and as anyone knows, sometimes you just get tired of using synthetics to maintain.  He had a very hard time... going on and off many times.  I don't know where he is now, but since I became an addict, I do see it in a very different light.  After 10 years, I can finally forgive him and wish him well.  That helps me.  

Now I am no expert, but it seemed the people going to the "done" clinic were mainly trying to stay off herion, and I don't think it was for severe pain.  All of these drugs we are using have a purpose, but it seems to always get the best of you.  I know there are people out there who genuinely need their meds, and I thought I was one of them. I believe that life is full of trials and tribulations, and this just happens to be one of them. Got to keep up the apperance that eveything is fine.  But, as we all know. We are fooling ourselfs.

On another note, I had a great morning, but the afternoon turned into a bummer.  The good part was I cancelled all appointments for more meds, and called a counselor.  It amazed me how good that felt.  I know this is going to be a long road to travel, but by the grace of God, I will succeed.  Keep me in your prayers.

Thanks for letting me talk.  It is very theraputic.  I want my life back.  'Auestion"  Have you tried nn addiction

Thnk you Waler

If my ex-husband is not dead by know, he will soon.  He never had enough courage to stay off it permanently.  I wish him well.
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slant 4 ,  good to see you doing better.  i am a heavy addict of a drug, dilaudid, that kept me coming back whether i wanted to or not.  that is why i say methadone saved my life.  but i am responsible with my dosage.  i've withdrawn before about 3 years ago.   Have a good one.

Meagain,
my own internist will not prescribe methadone unless you are detoxing off methadone.  Down south where I live we only have clinics and they are in AL.  I drive across state line to get methadone.  It is for heroin or now dilaudid and oxy addicts who want to get off that.  It has the pain relieving qualities of any strong opiate.  It is stronger than heroin when given in the right dosage.  I've seen both at the clinic I use - addicts and chronic painers- we do not make a big difference but try to see how we are common.
I personally like the time release I get at the clinic better than the script I had for tablets when I was detoxing.  If you really like your doctor, stay with the methadone that way.  If you want longer lasting methadone ask him about the orange megadose tablets that disolve in H2O.  For me it just lasts longer.  Both help pain, because when I am hurt, I do not feel it until it has gotten really bad.
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Just something to think about -- the other times you detoxed, did you feel like you had "hit bottom"? I know for me I did it the first time mainly for the people around me. This time I did it for me and that really makes a difference in my mental state. Hitting bottom is different for everyone, though. For one person, that might be losing their home and living under bridge. For another, it might be feeling like a slave to their scripts, having to keep a bottle on the nighstand because they wake up in W/Ds. That doesn't make the first any worse than the last, in my opinion; we each just have our diffenent levels, and probably a lot goes into that, such as our current life situation, our childhood experiences, the people around us, and many other factors. For me, I never used bought illegally, but I would sure look in medicine cabinets and purses and do a little bit of doctor shopping. That doesn't mean I'm any better than someone who gets on the needle early and loses everything. I'm certainly not. I think I'm just lucky that the factors in my life kept me from getting to that point. But what's important is that everyone reaches their own "bottom". I thank God every day that mine wasn't harder to shake, although trust me it feels pretty damn hard. I did lose my job, my house, my reputation, but I'm still kicking.
What I'm getting at is that you sound like you are at or very close to your bottom. You are afraid and sounding desperate, as many of us did or do when we get to that point. So maybe detox/rehab will work for you this time, even if it hasn't in the past. Cherish this feeling you have now, the awfulness, the fear of getting caught and the desperation, the slavery to pills and the preoccupation that drives everything else out of your life. Cherish it, because when you are clean you need to look back at how horrible you felt, and maybe you can ask yourself if you want to trade a 30-minute high for that slavery. Once you have to take the drugs just to feel normal, I don't think there's even that much enjoyment. The problem becomes you won't feel "normal" for many weeks after detoxing, even after the W/Ds are mostly over. But eventually the sun will shine again and you will get to a new normal. And that normal will be far superior to the desperation you go through now to feel that artificial normality.
I am not preaching here, and I am also dealing with my own cravings and doubts. That's why I said I cherish that period when I couldn't live without my little pills. It is a reminder of what I never want to feel again. tracy
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I chose to go the methadone route too. i was on oxycotin for a couple of months but i could'nt seem to control  not over using it so i did alot of reading and came across some reading on methadone. I went in for my pain clinic appointment and discussed it with him, he told me that he is currently tyring to get all his oxycotin patients to switch over for pain control. I just go to the pharmacy to pick up a months worth, If it wasn't for my medical case manager shoving going back to work too soon it would work wonderful. I am perscribed 10mg tid.
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Thats exactly what I do. I was on oxy and they switched me over
to Methadone. I get a months supply at a drug store. So far so
good. I've had no problems  with it yet. Its been about a week.
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Hello confused.grl,
  You said you did alot of reading up on Methadone. Do you by
any chance know of any good web sites I can learn more about it?
Or a book or two?
Thanks Tom
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Hello confused.grl,
  You said you did alot of reading up on Methadone. Do you by
any chance know of any good web sites I can learn more about it?
Or a book or two?
Thanks Tom
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I am not sure if someone else has said it already, but the clinic would not pertain to you.  The doc would give you a script and you would get it filled just like any other drug.  Methadone has a half-life of 24 to 36 hours no matter where you get it.  The liquid at the clinic is not time released.  Methadone is just a long acting opiate.  You should feel no shame in taking methadone for pain or anyone taking it for addiction purposes should feel no shame.  Uncontrolled pain just brings other problems into the fold.  Methadone works very well for some conditions and people and doesn't work well for others.  For me, it didn't do much.  But, for you, it might do wonders.  It is well worth it to try it.  For your knowledge, the pills come in a few different brands that I have had.  And, they are not equally potent, I have found.  Roxane labs makes Dolophine and also makes methadone hcl tabs in 5mg and 10mg.  Methadose makes at least the 10mg tab.  I am not sure if they make the 5mg or not.  I have had all three and found that the methadose seemed to be a little weaker.  I best tolerated the 10mg roxane methadone hcl tab.  The dolophine made me really tired.  Again, your pain should be treated.  Please don't feel bad about taking something for it.  One other thing with the methadone, watch your weight!  When I was on it, I craved sweets like mad!  I couldn't get enough ice cream.  I hope this helps.
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Thanks to everyone who has responded to me, it's been rough the past couple of days. I'm a little encouraged becase I had a doctor's appt. this Saturday to get vicodin and I cancelled it. It was so hard to do, but once I decided that's what I was going to do I just did it. I'm thinking of flushing my current supply down the toilet. Wish me luck.
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I have been getting some real great info from all of you, and it helps me everyday. I am currently tappering, which is no walk in the park. I quit oxycotin, I was using it off and on 80 the 160 then the last 2 weeks I was doing 4-5 80mg tabs.

Its been 2 weeks since I took any oxy but I have replaced it with Percs first week 11 to 12 just to get through the day and now today I am down to 4 percs and 3 vics. I take a little in the morning then some in the late afternoon when the withdraws start in on me and I still have to perform.

I am taking off May 2oth to June 1st to detox. So the tappering continues and it  sucks, why do I feel like **** even though I am taking percs and vic, is it because the oxy is much stronger and what I feel is the detox from the oxy???????

I hate being a slave to this drug but I take it to work. The 20th is getting closer(smile). I plan on a detox center the first 4 days then home. I hope to get down to only 2 percs or 1 before detox.

1. Am I doing it right? I feel bad about myself.
2. Is it smart to go into detox for 4 days or should I just do it at home? It seems like they give you stuff to help you out in the hospital detox unit for those first 3 to 4 brutal days.

Thank You for all your support and courage.
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Row:
I would not suggest going through withdrawls cold turkey. I found an addiction doctor who gave me med's to get through the withdrawls.  My husband and I did it at the same time.  We were lucky, my sister took our son for 4 days, and we were just really sedated.  It made it much easier.  NOW THE HARD PART!  After coming out of a drug induced fog for the past 3 years, reality is very different.  We start our first counseling sessions tomorrow, and will probably continue with NA meetings.  I realize now that I am just an addict.  I have always been an addict, I just was not physically addicted to anything until the past three years.  Behaviour change is the key, and to be perfectly honest with you, it scares the hell out of me.  I have lived my life the same way, dealt with issues,etc. as an addict.  I am going to have to learn a whole new way of life, and I hope I can do it.  It's day 5 for me, and I am not craving any hydro.  All I know is I want to get some kind of buzz, and that's where the change has to come in.  I had to go to work today and pretend my world was alright, and that was very difficult.  I have been mad all day today (especially at myself), but now I'm calming down.  I know there will be good and bad days, but it is very hard for me when everything around me is going as planned.  I know I have been pretending for a long time that all is well, and then BOOM.  I like to hide from problems, issues, etc., so this counseling (8 hrs in one day) is going to be something.

Good Luck!!!
slant
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Does anyone else see an alarming pattern forming here?I do not concerder myself a expert here or on anything but it seems that a lot of half-facts and opinions are begin given(Not you mrmichael-you do have your facts)but it does alarm me because of the limited expertise i do have- like how ultram must of given a high narcotic tolerance-half true but also morphine will worsen certain kinds of pain-a impaction is caused because perastalic action is slowed or absent-morphine will slow this action more causing a increase in the problem and pain.I think that psychological impact must be addressed to so degree.After reading about methadone(thanks again mrmike)i am still at a lost why the dose as any issue with the sucess of the treatment.I understand the objective is to quit all drugs but if a person is able to remain calm and focused on the goal,and painfree what does it matter on the dose.I agree with whoever said that begin painfree is the biggest high-so if somone is emotionally and physically pain free then the treatment is a sucess.I still insist that if my real pain issues had been addressed that i never would of fixated on the meds and would of had no reason to increase my medsand it is MY OPINION that the same is true for a recovering addict-that if both mental and body pain are provided without the need to make one feel guilty,a addict will recover.Isnt it that only our secrets kill us? so why set us up in a selffilling atmosphere of guilt and shame, so that we need to have secrets,why cant we say I need this and get it,and be    proud and high from that ,then we would be ready to let go of the drugs,knowing that our own actions could give us a high.  i regress-I think that we all have a reponsablity to keep our fats sraight and  complete or someone might get hurt.I am not trying to offend anyone,I know that I too am guilty of this
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I think as long as all expectations are met, then it was successful.  I'm not sure, but what is it that you want to know, Meagain?  I can't tell if you are looking for an answer to something or just throwing ideas in the air.  Either way is cool, I just want to be on the same page.
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What!?

Sorry I was posting "half-truths" about Ultram. All the Half-doctors were giving me half-information.

I'm gonna' lay low for a while.......

10, 9, 8,................
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jesse- i am sorry you took offense ,i wasnt refering to you . but i still think that if a person is going to claim a title then then have a responsablity to make sure that any information offered is correct and also complete.This forums header reads that it is run by an MD and I havent seen one post .I was worried that someone might read  opinions that are begin written as fact.I think alot of us here have been done a great diservice by so called professionals ,who either dont have all the facts or who just dont know what the hell they are talking about.In the last few weeks ive talked to a lot of "PROFESSIONALs"who are so out of date or so closed-minded and bigoted about narcotics that they are scary.Ive read article after article and very few can agree on anything-Alot of my internet searching reads of poor souls who accidently overdosed after relasping when they took their "usual"dose and then dropped dead because it is very odd to point out anything that could be good about a narcotic-like did you know that narcotics are like cigerrettes?that if you quit your body will recover and return to near normal so that your "DOSE"of nicotine and narcotic become similar to a nonuser? That gave me great hope,there is a scientific point to grab,so if i can stay clean and in the future i need pain control,I will be able to find it.True my tolerance will build faster but i wont suffer,and that had me very depressed and was always a point in my mind.Of course that also means that if i get clean say a year,then relaspe,and i put 200mg percocet in my mouth like i was ,i will die,thats why addicts die when they relaspe,because of the half information,I assumed that my tolerance would be high,thats all they say,because, why take 2 when 10 is more-then !poof! dead,all because of half the story.(MAybe they dont tell that part because who the hell cares if a junkie dies,we do thier dirty work for them) I dont want to die,i dont want to be a addict but i am,I hope I can get and stay clean but if I cant- I still dont want to die just because i didnt have all the facts and so if anyone claims a title of knowledge then i expect them to have the correct complete knowledge or to be quiet,I am confused enough already- again sorry if I got anyone upset but not for what I said
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just to be clear I am not talking of all the sharing of our lifes,IT HELPS ME AT LEAST TO SEE THAT OTHERS HAVE THE SAME FEARS,HOPES AND WORRIES AS ME.tHE EXCHANGE OF OUR THOUGHTS ARE WHAT MAKES THIS A SPECIAL PLACE.i AM ONLY REFERING TO 'pROFESSIONAL OPINIONS'  SORRY MY KEYBOARDS STILL WACKED FROM THE WATER I SPILLED THE OTHER NIGHT-FORGIVE THE CAPS      MAYBE ILL JUST SHUT UP NOW  I DONT THINK I MADE MY POINT CLEAR AND I DONT KNOW HOW TO-PLEASE DONT TAKE IT PERSONALY-IT WASNT MEANT THAT WAY   LAURA
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i'm too curious to not ask.  where did you find info that states you will return to having the tolerance of a non-user with nicotine and narcotics?  did it say how long you needed to be off these drugs before your tolerance would return to that state?  i know for me, i have stopped using and gone back to find my tolerance is still very high.  i'd like to read what you are referring to....thanks a bunch.
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O.K.

Sorry, Meagain...

I was just feeling bitchy last night, and took it out on you. You didn't deserve that! I know you are just concerned about everyone's well-being, and don't want to see anyone OD because of something they saw here.

Once again, I appologize.

Jess
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I'm curious too about the tolerance going down. It seems like it would have to at least some, and when I worked for the PD we saw lots of cases where people died of Oxy or heroin or whatever becaue they quit and then relapsed at their old dose. At the same time, my former pain doctor told me that if I ever needed surgery down the road, my tolerance would almost immediately be back to my old level. So obviously there is much debate about this, but I think it's very good to point it out so people can be aware of what could happen.
I had a very recent case where a chronic pain patient was off his meds and then moved back to town and got his old dose. He died that very night after taking methodone and Oxy. His mother also stole some of his pills and went into a coma. There's a lawsuit going on now. Just my two cents; I think this is a good topic because even if the rest of the world doesn't care, I certainly do and I think everyone here does; I don't want to see any of us hurt more than we'e already been hurt.

Slant -- You're doing great. It's the mental stuff that's hard. Realizing how much I missed out on life the past few years is a good deterrent. I feel so much guilt for not being there for my kids as I should have. I hurt myself and others terribly. I have to deal with that and move on. I really want to unburden to someone and confess everything I did, but haven't found that person yet. I hope to make an NA meeting this week and maybe that will give me the opportunity. I did go to confession with a priest (my first confession; it took quite a bit to get through it all), but he focused on one thing that was bad. I need to just get it out of my mind, it's filling my head with ****. Sorry to digress, I will try just reading and not posting today. tlk
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I have not experienced that return of non-using tolerance.  I was clean, but only for 6 months or so.  During my last relapse, I held down the mg of dilaudid I was bumping, but that had as much to do with $$$$$$ as anything.  I still used about the same every day, just not at once.  I've always had to work.
As Mr.Michael said, methadone is available by more than one company.  It's been on the market since the early 1970's.  After about 6 or 7 years, a patent runs out, and others can market that drug.  I know methadone has a halflife of 36 hours.  They teach us that at the clinic.  That is probably why it works for us hard core addicts.  I'm glad the pain doctors are keeping the dose 10mg tid.  And like Michael said, watch your weight.  Not only will you eat more,  water retention is a side effect as well.  It really slows down all you body systems.  

I know people resent others.  Just put a name on it.  It is not like someone can jump through your computer.  

Live and let live.
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Tolerance will lower over a period of abstinence.  If you quit for 6 months, when you pick up again, you can get high on much less.  But, you will be back to your old tolerance within a couple of days.  It doesn't go up like when you first started using narcs in the very beginning.  I have personally experienced this as well as read it numerous times.  People over dosing is a bad part of the rapid detox many times.  People come out of the treatment feeling so bad that they reach for say, heroin.  Their body is at the state of an opioid naive person and when they take their normal dose, they od.
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Thanks for that info, that is important to know for all of us.
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Thanks for the correct information.  I for one could kill myself that way.   I do not use anything except my benzo and methadone. But I say never say never.  In a few months, I hope to start detoxing from the methadone again.  I just want to be sure I'm ready.  I'm not rushing anything right now.  I appreciate your knowledge and resources.  You are really helpful and in a nonintrusive way.     Thank you, Ava
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Thank you Slant for your comment. I really think that you are way ahead of me, hell you should pat yourself on the back, I cant do that right now. I dont plan on cold turkey, I figure, the valium I have will help me take off the edge. I do plan on just stopping but that is a month after tappering, it should be less severe right? I guess thats my question,
If I can get down to 1 to 2 percs a day from taking 5 80mg tabs a day the withdraw should be less severe with the help of valium which really is not my choice of drug so I dont see any addiction problem there. I guess I will try at home with the recipe and some valium when needed.

What do you think Slant or anyone else. I am trying to avoid a detox place but will go If I should.

You keep it up and I will be right behind you!

Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I feel lethargic.  It is not due to my meds, for I have been taking them a while.  I am just depressed for some unknown reason.  Anyone else have trouble understanding why you feel the way you feel.  I always have.  Before I od'd, I would go into rages without knowing why.  After the overdose, that rage left me.  I say it was a God thing.  I'm not in rages or even snappy with my family.  I'm just enjoying more time alone with myself.
I may not go to group or counselling tomorrow when I pick up my weeks worth of methadone.  I have other things I want to do.  I also hate spending money these days.  I have to buy some things and take care of bills.  
We were so poor growing up.  I was in foster care twice.  I do not deal with any issue involving money.  I have to independant about my money even though I live with my exhusband.  I hate to see it disappear when I want to just keep it in my pocketbook.  I just do not know why I am pensive.  I am deep in thought without any answers.
Gotta go for now.
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I could be answering the question that has blasting in my head.
It is me that is driving meagin and others to want to leave.  I was last to come, and I can go.  Then you will have your old forum back.  
I am not offended.  Personality conflicts always occur in NA and any recovery based forum.  NA deals with it.  I guess this forum cannot handle me.  I have been honest.  I've tried to help with the best of my knowledge.  Just remember, when you have to detox from more than 30mg/day of methadone, it is truly hell.  You will then understand what i've been saying.  That my dears is no half truth.  Methadone is the hardest detox many addicts have ever seen.  


Good Luck to you all.  Tlk, Hinkster, Skipper, Seamstress, and many more, you've made this excurtion a good one while it lasted.
I'm off.
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Angst,
  Don't you dare! Are you kidding me you are one of best people
in this whole forum. We can not and will not do without you.
You've answered every question I've ever asked and with good
answers. I can garantee (sp) you you are not even close to being
one of THOSE people who ever they are. Stay right where you are.
Tom
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GO?!
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GO?!

NOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Don't you even THINK that you are not appreciated here! You are a GREAT asset to all of us, and I won't hear of you going anywhere.  You have to stay! You are helping others, and thus helping yourself.

So, it is written that you shall remain a participant in this forum. So it shall be done.

Love ya,
Jess
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How does one go about finding an addiction specialist to percribe drugs while detoxing?
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I would miss you if you leave.you are a kind a gental vioce-I know that without  your sweet encoragemnt i would not of stated to post .So do not think that you are leaving.you are very much need here. and thats a fact,not an opinion.
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it isn't possible for everyone everywhere to relate to one another and get along...that would be boring anyhow. you should only leave if YOU feel it's the right thing for you - not because you feel someone doesn't like you.

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First, I totally understand your pensiveness and depression. I'm right along on the ride with you. But I have never, ever seen anything to hint that you are a problem here. You've been wonderful, and I really want you to know and accept that. This is a long, hard struggle we have ahead of us, and I want you there beside me. So please don't go unless it is for your own personal growth. Actually I think I joined here after you and I tend to ramble, so it's probably me more than anyone!
You and the others here have been so good. There is no one else in the world I have talked to as I have talked to y'all, my nameless friends. I don't want to lose that. Thank you for all your help, all of you.
Angst, I am feeling the same things you are, depression, a lot of self-reflection, insecurity. I wish that none of had to go through this, but if we do, sharing it really helps. At least we know we're not completely crazy, that it is in fact normal for us recoving addicts. That helps more than perhaps anything.
Please stick around and keep posting your feelings. I value them. tracy
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Row, you can go to the asam website (american society of addiction medicine) and put in your city and it will give you a list of addiction specialists in your area.  Good luck!

Angst, I've been on this forum a long time, and I see people come and go all the time. No one drives anyone away. People sometimes need to pull back to take a break, or just move on to other things in their lives. Please don't take it personally if someone leaves the forum, or if someone expresses unhappiness with something happening on the forum. As others have said, disagreements happen, personality conflicts happen, and that is ok.  

I think I can speak for all of us when I say we welcome you and need you and value you.  I haven't seen anything that would at all make me think of you as causing any problems here. Not at all.

I hope you stay.
love,
WW
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angst:
i can't speak for anyone else, but you have not driven me away or
even injured my fraqgile, ******* feelings, ok? in the time since
i became active on this board there have been several people whom
i wished would go away, but wouldn't!

why not try just pulling back for awhile? in the past (and more
than once) i've announced i was leaving. i allowed someone and/or
something to make me feel i didn't belong here.

angst, you belong here. this forum will always need a tough lady,
who is full of light and hope. i will not beg you to stay. you
do whatever you have to, right or wrong, weak or strong. i ask
only that you not forget where we are, and always remember this
little corner of cyber needs your light too!

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
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Thank you for welcoming me back into the forum.  I need it as much as any newcomer.  I love reading the creative side to us addicts.  I love posting with other mothers who are addictis.
I hope I help that new person, give them the welcome to our website.   I will stay, because I needed to know if I was welcome or not.  With that said, who ever has a gripe, you can post them or not.  I stil have to learn not to react so quickly.
Again, thank you Hinkster, Kip, tlk, and all who posted to me.
I just did not want to stay where I felt unwelcome.  You all have cleared that up for me.  I'm here to stay,  if you can put up with me.  The whole of this forum is greater than any one person.
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Glad to hear it, and always know you are very wanted. We're in similar places so let's stick it out together. Email me anytime, ***@****.
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Thank you for posting a question to me I don't know why but i just can't seem to get  anyone to talk with me even when i post a question i'll be lucky if one person will answer me, i don;t know maybe you have to be posting here for a ver long time i order to get anyone to respond to you. well anyways to answer your question i didn't read any books, i just typed in "methadone vs oxycotin for pain management" into ask jeeves and out popped out too many responses to readit actually took me three days to sort everything out. Most of the results that i found said that for long term use "most" doctors would rather see their patients on methadone vs oxycotin. Of course there was also negative responses too , but most of those were for people who abused the methadone.
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Hey Everyone,
  I was away for a day or two. Someone said this forum is habit
forming, It sure is I miss it after just one day.
Angst:
   Welcome back! I was sure wishing you were going to stay. We
all won big on this one. You are a super lady and very intelligent. I know I speak for everyone on this (but don't have to).
confused.grl: Thanks for the info but I can't figure out what
you typed in and what search engine you used to get that info.
I would like to spend three days learning about what I'll probable will be on the rest of my life. Maybe you can come back
at me again and clear that up for me.
  kip: I can't post without saying good morning.
All my other friends I wish you a good day.
Tom
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i thought i mentioned it somewhere, but atwatchdog.org is a really great methadone information board.  you can post questions there, and someone will always answer quickly. don't be shy about just jumping right in there...they are much like this forum in accepting people.  good luck.
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Groovygirl,
Thanks. Your always there for me I like that.
Tom
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there is also the methadone alliance.  they are pro methadone, but offer good information.  just search under methadone alliance and you will find plenty to sites under which you can ask questions and be answered.
have a good day all.  i have to get the kids to the swimming pool before they become beligerent.
thanks for all your support, it means a lot.
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Hi confused, this is tlk, signing in with a new name. I'm sorry if I haven't answered your questions. Please feel free to address to me anytime or email, and I will offer whatever help I can (might not be too much as I'm new here, but I'll try!). My email is ***@****.
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hello everybody,
           i have never posted on this site but it was everybody
on here who has given me the courage to straighten my ass out.
i was getting crazy on the oxy to the pt. of destruction.......
although i admitted myself to an inpatient detox last wk. of april and have been clean since. i just experienced my first n.a. meeting and boy it was the best thing i've exp. ever........
black, white, hisp, orange, blue...ha-ha. seriously the recovery for me (and i know it has been a short time) is gonna be the toughest part. i am so used to seeing my A B C's the way i see them that living and staying this way is gonna be the toughest part of my journey. i wish to join the cyber family of addicts
and be able to keep learning and grow to beat this (DRAGON)
i am holding on strong although just when you feel at ease....
the DRAGON starts his whisper......so please, i have gotten thru the detox and 8 days straight and love reading and learning and hopefully teach a new comer................


                                philly bee
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sorry if i butchered your nick name.  welcome to the forum and you are right on the spot about recovery oriented places to go.
we see one another through the bad times and praise for good things that happen in our lives.  i don't want to always be known as an addict.  i am not ashamed, but there is so much good going on in this world.  i want to see it all, clean when i get there.  i am on methadone maintenance program.  it was my 3rd relapse on dilaudids-bumping them of course.  i had fallen into the abyss, but i had experience with methadone before, so i got myself there quickly before i died.  it really saved my life. i have detoxed before and will again when i can.  good luck to you.
i've been in rehab 3 times.  NA is a wonderful place to go.  my home group accepts me on methadone.  Welcome again to this forum.
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THANK YOU FOR THE INVITE,

           YOU MUST BE A STRONG PERSON TO SUFFER THRU THREE
TIMES. I HOPE YOU STICK TO THE PROGRAM. TODAY SEEMS BETTER WITH
THE CRAVINGS. I FEEL I AM ADJUSTING TO "THIS HEAD" ANYWAY.
I AM FORTUNATE THAT MOST OF MY FRIENDS ARE STRAIGHT LACED SO THE TEMPTATION ENDS WHEN I AM AROUND THEM. I AM GOING TO ANOTHER N.A. SOON AND HOPE TO CONT.
THANX FOR THE REPLY AND I WILL TALK TO YOU SOON.

PHILLY BEE
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hey there thanks for posting ,real nice to hear good news.
NA  meetings are great they have always helped me. the more i got involved the better it got.
That old saying  GO THE EXTRA MILE, has always  been the
best thing i can do.
Peace , and keep posting                            
michael from philly
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LAPPER AND PHILLY BEE ARE THE SAME I DON'T KNOW HOW IT GOT MIXED.........
ANYWAY I WALKED INTO THE N.A. MEETING LAST NIGHT LIKE A LOST PUPPY AND WAS WELCOMED WITH OPEN ARMS. I ACTUALLY BLUSHED AT HOW MANY HUGS I GOT. HIPPY, HAVE YOU EVER FELT THAT AFTER ATTENDING SO MANY MEETINGS THAT YOU FELT YOU WERE OKAY TO NOT GO? (ASSUMING YOU WENT ALOT)I AM NOT IN ANYWAY SAYING I AM DETERED FROM THEM AT THE LEAST.I TALK TO PEOPLE WHO SAY THEY BEEN GOING FOR 20-30 YRS. THAT SEEMS LIKE ETERNITY. DO YOU THINK THAT EVEN IF YOU FELT TOTALLY RECOVERED THAT YOU WOULD FEEL BAD NOT GOING? ALTHOUGH THAT IS CERTAINLY A BETTER HABIT THAN SOME OF THE OTHERS I HAVE FORMED....HAHAHAHAHA.........
EVERYBODY IN THIS FORUM HAS MADE A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE TO ME AND I MEAN THAT FROM THE HEART.
KEEP THE DRAGON IN HIS CAGE...................


                   PHILLY BEE
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Hi everyone I am sorry to burst in on someone else thread but it would not let me post a question(too many).  First of all I want to say that reading all of ur postings has been very comforting for me!!!!  I am on day 16 of cold turkey off of 25-30 7.5's a day, im still not sure that all this is even worth it.  My legs still ache my head hurts, I have NO energy!!!!  its seems like the longer I go the worse the cravings get.  I have a hard time just getting off the couch most of the time let alone when im at work.  I know i must sound like a cry baby but does anyone know how much longer it may be till i get any energy at all?  I am taking a strong multi and amino acids, i am also on paxil, but i swear this depresion and lack of energy is going to may me go back to good ole dr watson, any advice?
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I HAVE BEEN ABOUT 9 DAYS CLEAN AND MY LEGS STILL WAKE ME UP EVERY NIGHT. I STARTED TO EXERCISE IN THE GYM (I WAS TOLD THAT- YOUR NATURAL PAIN KILLERS WOULD HELP)AND THE PAIN SUBSIDED. THINK OF ALL THE PAIN YOU ARE GOING THRU NOW. IT WILL GO AWAY IN TIME I AM TOLD. IF YOU START WITH THE BAD HABITS AGAIN IT WILL ONLY GET WORSE............
BROWSE THRU THIS FORUM EVERY TIME YOU HAVE A CRAVING AND I PROMISE IF YOU ARE TRUE TO YOURSELF ABOUT QUITTING YOU WILL SUSTAIN FROM USING. THERE IS A RECIPE THAT YOU CAN BUY (OVER THE COUNTER)THAT CAN HELP GREATLY.IF YOU WANT I CAN SEND IT TO YOU VIA E-MAIL IF YOU WANT JUST POST BACK YOUR E-MAIL AND I WILL SEND IT TO YOU......................................
HAVE FAITH I AM TRYING TOO...........

       PHILLY BEE
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hi - why don't you post what the over-the-counter thing is here, so everyone can benefit from it?  if it would be helpful, why not?  thanks.
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Princess,
It sounds like you have the worst behind you.  Take my advice, don't fall off the wagon. Here's a reminder to you, (I am starting detox this sunday) the life I am living sucks so bad, I would trade with you right now. Be proud of the job you've done thus far, you are doing great. Hang in there, bite the bullet.

tbc
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I HAVE NOT PURCHASED ANY OF THE RECIPE ITEMS AND THE RECIPE WAS E-MAILED TO ME FROM SOMEONE ON THE POST (I FORGET WHO) SO IF ANYBODY KNOWS WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT PLEASE POST.........SORRY


PHILLY BEE A.K.A. LAPPER
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i don't know the recipe...it has amino acids and l-tyrosine. i even did a forum search for it and came up with nothing.  i don't know how that's possible, as it has been discussed here a million times.  hopefully, someone will post it for you....sorry.
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L-TYROSINE  6 A DAY WEEK ONE  3 A DAY WEEK 2 500MG.
B-6    1 A DAYS
VIT A
VIT C
ZINC
CALCIUM -MAGNEISUM
COPPER
MAGNESSE
PHOSPHOUS
A STRONG MULITY VIT.
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////    
I ALSO TAKE 5HTP  PEACE
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AS FAR AS MEETINGS GO , I LOVE MEETINGS BEST TO FIND ONE GROUP
AND MAKE IT YOUR HOME GROUP AND MAKE THE COFFE IF YOU CAN.
i MADE COFFFEE ANT A MEETING IN 1984 AND WOUND UP MAKING THE COFFEE FOR 3 YEARS , I SYAYED CLEAN FOR 14 YEARS , THIS GAVE MY KIDS THE WONDERFUL LIFE THEY DESERVED.
I RELASPED AFTER A COUPLE OF SHOULDER OPERATIONS, ON THE VIKES
I TOOK TEM A PRESCRIBED FOR ABOUT A YEAR THEN I CROSSED A LINE INTO INSAINTY/ TO 10 TO 20 7.5S A DAY SOMETIMES,
THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR THE LAST 3 YEARS .THE REALLY WEIRD THING IS I NEVER LIKED D'S ANND T'S/ OR ROBE/ BACK IN THE 70'S
I HATED THE WAY VIKES MADE ME FEEL , I NEVER CONSIDERED IT A HIGH
i GOT A NICER BUZZ OFF 1 XANAX.

i FOUND THIS FOURM 5 WEEKS AGO AND IT IS BEEN A LIFE SAVER  FOR ME.  IM TAKING THE RECEIPE.       PEACE
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EAT LOTS OF BANANA'S AND DRINK GATORADE FOR THE LEG SPASAMS/CRAMPS/ RESTLESS LEGS. I DON'T DRINK THE GATORADE AFFTER
2PM IT SOME TIMES KEEPS ME UP AT NIGHT IF I DO.
THESE TO THINGS REPLACE THE LOST POTASIUM/(BANNAS) AND LOSS OF ELECTRO LITES (GATORAIDE.

ps . IF YOU HAVE THE SHITS OR THE RUNS STILL, IT IS SUGGESTED TO TAKE IMODIUM (immodium). THE RUNS WILL DEPLETE YOU BODY OF SO MUCH NUTRITION, IT WILL ALSO CAUSE THE WITHDRAWLS TO BE MUCH NORE PAINFUL.
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I read a posting from some time ago .. below
I recently experienced the same thing this weekend .. first time ever feeling this way .. I did go to the hospital .. i was terrified .. It turned out the last Bump I did was of like 80% proof stuff .. and I didn't know ... I honestly thought I was going to die .. my poor boyfriend was freaking too . I went to the hospital and had a heart rate of 130.. normal I guess is between 70-100. Believe me this was my perfect excuse to QUIT .. problem is .. is that it is a social thing .. I only do it 2 or 3 days a month ( fri or sat usually ) and I only usually do on average .5 grams ... My fear is how do I adapt ? for 2 years now this has been habit.... ?
****************************************************************
Subject: Am I having a cocaine overdose?
Topic Area: Drugs
Forum: The Addiction Medicine Forum
Question Posted By: Ckivlan on Tuesday, May 29, 2001


I was in this forum a few months ago with questions about cocaine and alcohol. Well I am back with another question concerning cocaine. Memorial Day.... Did a few backs of cocaine with a friend and felt great! Went home around 2:30am and layed in bed and thats when it all began. My eyes were rolling in the sockets... my heart began to race... I began to sweat... I couldnt breathe very well. I was breathing but it felt like i could not get enough air! I took a hot bath and felt like i was going to faint... took a cold bath...i was freezing. Anyways, I tryed so many things to feel better up until 6:30 am when i finally began to calm down. It is now 12:17 and i slept about 4 hours. My heart was racing so fast I was about to call an ambulance but my mom would kill me before the cocaine would! I was having these weird convulsions. My arms were shaking and my fingers haven been shaking for months. I really felt like i was dying.... I can't explain how horrible I felt. My question: Was I having an overdose??? or was I just going through something that everybody goes through when they do too much cocaine? Couls I have died??? my EXTREME question... I am a 20 female in Miami, Florida.... I dont have a drug habit but i do tend to use cocaine about once a month and i always over do it... I am leaving into the Navy in October so I hope that will help me alot... if I use cocaine again and i feel my heart racing and etc.etc.etc.... can you PLEASE reccomend something to help when im experiencing this? Is there a special remedy? ANYTHING... please name a few things. Thank you so much.
*MiStiCiLLuSionZ*
***@****
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5\14 : i have been getting the (shits) for the last day and a half. i am glad you posted the recipe. i was in need of it myself. do you see a great deal of difference once on?
my legs have been good to me the last couple of nights although
my abdominal area seems to be picking up where they left off.
i am sure this will pass in time (as long as we stay clean and strong)

philly bee (lapper)
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STOP DOING COKE........
YOU ARE GONNA KILL YOURSELF
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Believe Me I am / I have / I Will  ...
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I don't mean to sound "LOUD" about it, I have done plenty of all nighters and not one has been pleasant. I have never went to the hospital....felt like sometimes i was gonna die.....
thank god that that drug does not grab you physically or you would really be up shits creek without a paddle.
seriously, if you are exp. things like that when you are doing the "weekend thing" think about how you are gonna be feeling
before you start to use.........
try to stay away from your triggers..............
give your heart and your body a break.........
keep in touch, be strong

philly bee
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the only way to ensure you won't experience that again is to not do coke again.  i dabbled with it a looong time ago, and it never turned into a habit.  if i were you, i would never put myself thru that again...next time you might not be so lucky.  my friend went thru that type of thing, and she never tried it again...even when we were all doing it right in front of her.  

i can say over and over not to do it again, but only you are going to make the choice.  being an addict and having gone thru hell, makes me want to try to convince you never to fool around with drugs.  coke isn't physically addicting, and you will probably never have to go thru what us opiate addicts do trying to detox.... you just might die from a heart attack.

listen to your body, and keep writing if it helps.
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Thanks  guys ...  I know what I have to do ...  it will be  hard when the weekend  comes  around .. but I am  strong and  I know I can do it  !!!
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Hi everybody...do you have a automotive business? do you have a Maintenance Garage? ... do you need to save your time and your employees
time?
so you need to computerize your business with the best Automotive software ever ALLDATA ... you can check your clients car as easy as driving them and as fast as the car speed ... you can't stand the ALLDATA software price?
so you need it cheaper .... we have it with the crack ... 8 DVD's and one install CD ...
all for less than the half original price ... if you don't know ALLDATA the 1st Automotive software you can check it here www.alldata.com.
thank you

p.s you can email me here .... esmat_victor***@****   OR  esmat_victor***@****

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NO SOLICITING, Buddy.

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