self tapering off drugs

Does anyone know the best way to taper?  10% per day?  5%?  Any ideas?  What is the average time it should take to taper off of opiates?  Thanks........

[suzneedshelp]

It definitely depends on wut u r tapering from.  Can u give us more info plz?
But...Most of us addicts can not taper period!  Unless we have someone hold the drugs for us and dole em out as planned.  I know i could not!
Peace...
Suzie

[happytoday]

I am now on day 19 of the chains being released. I posted a thread to my fellow addicts on oxycontin about three weeks ago. This has not been easy by any means. However, with the love and support of Narcotics Anonymous I have been able to do what I thought I could never do. Now I know why some want Methadone after being on Opiates for so long. Only, I know how good having a couple of months clean can be. Even better what it feels like to have a year clean! You see, this was a wicked relapse for me after surgery that lasted nine miserable months of using Opiates around the clock - Oxys and Percs. I was snorting a 20mg Oxy every hour hour in the end.But alas! I have 19 days free today.

If in fact you are seriously taking the meds for pain, let your Dr describe your taper. However, if you are fooling yourself, and are an addict, then get into treatment and stop the viscious cycle before it is to late! This is a progressive disease! I used right up until the time my wif drove me to treatment. However, I requested the treatment, and was a lucky addict who wanted help, and not forced into treatment.

While the last 19 days were no picnic, I definetly feel the worst is behind me, physically speaking. I will have to deal with the mental aspect of addiction for the rest of my life while working the Twelve Steps of NA.

Good-Luck and I will prey for you!

[Bodymechanic]

The best way to taper is slow. Depending on the drug a 5% decrease per week will get you where you want to go. During that time you can seek councelling or support groups. If you are truly an addict then you have your whole lifetime to deal with this.  There is absolutely no point in rushing the detox at the risk of failure.

[freezing]

Is there any difference in tapering off of oxycontin, fentanyl, Subutex, or heroin for that matter?

[recentlyengaged]

Hi I am new here, this is my first post.  I have been a narcotic abuser, just for the high it gives me, not pain, for about four months.I have used on a daily basis since about Dec 27.  Oxys were my favorite high , I would normally snort 2 to 3 40's a day.  When I couldnt get oxys I would use vics, percs or morphine sulfate pills.  I got engaged friday to my girl friend who has no idea about my problem.  She is my whole life and I love her and my mom more than life itself.  I am 22 years old.  I have a good job and make a good salary.  Nobody knows about my drug problems.  Friday I used in excess of 200 mg of Oxys.  Now I pledge to quit.  I refuse to let drugs ruin my life.  I dont need to get high, and I am as determined to quit as I have ever been determined to do anything in my life.  It was curiosity and experimentation that got me into this and now I am gonna get myself out.  Yesterday orally I took only 2o mgs and felt a bad but survived.  Today I took 10 mgs six hours apart and I feel not so bad. I have 3 Oxy 40's left in my supply.  I am gonna take 20 mgs six hours apart tommorow.tuesday I will take 20 mgs and then a 10 six hours apart. wednesday I will due the same, and thursday I will take 10 and then 10 six hours apart.  Friday I will take nothing.  I have klonopin to help with anxiety and I am taking the anti depressent effexor.  I feel very strongly about my ability to beat this and I am not scared.  I dont need to be high.  I love the people in my life who love me and I feel very good about my chances.  Any comments or feedback would be greatly appreciated.  I have nobody to turn to about this, so I am glad I found thid forum.  THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!

[theGolden1]

Hi everyone! I am still tapering down from ultram. I switched over to tramadol because my insurance dosen't cover ultram anymore and it is also easier to cut them into quarters. I went from dosing 3x's a day to dosing once a day. I was taking 4 a day and my doctor moved me up to 5. I just decided to do my own thing and cut back until I got down to 3 a day .... then took 3 in the morning and that was it. I cut down to 2 3/4 about 10 days ago and tommorrow I go to 2 1/2 .... wow! I can't believe it! I have heard from so many people concerning this drug. They can't get off of it. The secret here is to go very, very slowly. Cut it a tiny bit every 10 days. I am taking my vitamins every day. Cod liver oil, vit E, a mild B complex with C and zinc ... and of coarse my Citracal. I finally found the best vitamins on the net. Absolutely pure. I can't name names here, but I will be happy to give this information through email .... I also found a steam distiller for making pure water. I have been buying mine in the supermarket and it's so heavy to drag home. Drinking water is my hobbie. I am so happy I found this place ... I'm supposed to have foot surgery ... but I am too scared of the vocodin monster, so I'm going to hold off on it ... I know I have a ways to go .... but I will NEVER give my soul to a drug again. Those RAT BASTIDS .... all they care about is money. The baby boomers are becoming a generation of perscription drug addicts!! Well I'm sorry charlie, not this cow girl. "I shall be released" .....  ***@****

[Thomas03]

congrats on the engagement! The good news is you've only been using for 4 months. You have an excellent chance of getting your old self back. The bad news is, you don't have enough oxy to taper and are about to go cold turkey. I'd prepare for that. You'll be visibly ill and will need a cover story. The flu works well for these things. Good luck. The recipe is published in one of these recent threads. It may have some techniques you'll want to know about. If you can't find it, write me at ***@****

Thomas

[recentlyengaged]

How much more do I need for tapering?  I figured if I can feel ok on 10 mgs twice a day I could do ok on nothing.  What recipe?  Please explain more about what helps with this.

[justcleanedup]

I just did I nice little relapse starting with 5-10 norcos a day and then got a hold of 60x 40mg oxys...did a 3 day bs taper but then slept for most of the last 3 or 4 days on 30- 40 mg. per day of valium....very groggy...but very effective....granted, I'd love to do some more narcs...but I'm feeling ok....a little depressed...but ok.    If you go to detox like I did last year...they basically dose you with even more valium along with a clonodine patch (BP medication)...supposed to help....but I was at about the same level...roughly 60-80....sometimes 100 mg. a day...I'm a chewer...but valium and cable and sleep.....good Idea to have someone check on you though....It wasn't as bad as I thought.  The depression , I'm sure will last a few weeks at least.  Hope this helps.

[Thomas03]

there's an infinite difference between 10 mgs and NOTHING. As far as how many you need to taper, I don't know. But I'd think a 10% reduction per week would be sufficiently uncomfortable. If you do go cold turkey, there are some things you can do to make the experience bearable and successful. The following is a roadmap to self detox off opiates. There are other techniques, including medically supervised detoxes, but this one would be doable without everyone knowing about it. Good luck.

Thomas Detox Recipe

PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas

This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (immodium) (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium (immodium) aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you.

[Oxyclean]

I tapered off a 160mg a day oxycontin dose that I was on over a year. It took over 3 months to do. Going from 10mg to nothing is the hardest. You will feel like you have the BAD case of the flu. You will feel bad for a while, but it is doable! Take the advice of people here....they know more than the doctors when it comes to this addiction thing. Can you get your doctor to give you a Catapress patch? It is a bloodpressure med that helps with withdrawals. I wore mine over a month later, and it did help. Also, be upfront with your girlfriend. I thought my husband did not know either. Surprise he knew and was very supportive! I had him hand out my meds to me so I did not mess up my taper. Your girlfriend just may surprise you too! Good luck to you. You can do it and you will feel so much better in the end...

[Bodymechanic]

Golden

I have been following you through this problem for many months.  Your persistance and determination should serve as an example to everyone. Your slow steady approach to the problem shows a deep understanding of the true nature of addiction. Addiction is a marathon and not a sprint race. BTW, tramadol is ultram at 1/4 the price.

Recentlyengaged

I am truely praying that your love affair with opiates is over. There are many people who get involved with a drugs and then put them behind them forever.  I just hope you are being honest with yourself.  The high doses you are taking suggests that you are more than just an experimenter. A dose of 200mg of oxycontin is the dose of a hard core veteran. IMHO, hiding this from your future wife is a serious violation of her trust.  Make no mistake about it my friend. You are at the most critical crossroad you will ever face in your life. Your decisions now will effect you and your loved ones for the rest of your life.

[kilo]

Well put! Don't screw around with this ****. Either you stop it or it will stop you... Best to jump off now...because if you keep this up, the train might be moving too fast for you to jump.
Peace

Kilo

[saveyourself]

hap,

Your post made my day.  I am on day 69 opiate free and in the process of recovery in NA.  It is the only program that has given this addict freedom from active addiction for 7 years.  Pride, ego and choosing to stop NA because I thought I was cured and thought I could drink socially, created a relapse that went on for three years.

Drug free, what a concept.  I am just grateful that I don't need opiates for legitamate pain or to just feel normal.  My prayers go out to those who have to use as prescribed after crossing that invisible line of addiction.  That is what is great about this board.  There is wisdom and love for the suffering.  Good luck to you a day at a time.
Strength and Honor
Greg

[Kat49]

Miss all of you on our fiorinal thread! How are all of you doing on your tapering of that nasty drug? Golden, are you still completely off of it? I find this forum had helped me tremendously in getting clean and now that I've slipped up a few times (my own doing not the forum's) I feel the support and the constant back & forth dialogue isn't there anymore and is harder to say "no" to yourself when before all's we did was get on the forum and talk to each other. That in itself was comforting. Hope you all respond soon!  Kat

[The Golden Slipper]

Hi Kat, I am still around and doing ok.  How have you been doing?  

I have been trying to find some new forums for us to post to. I am looking into DrugAbuse.Com.  It looks like a good forum and I may try to start a thread over there.

Check it out and look for my name.  I will try to post something over there under their Support section. So please surf over and check it out.

I will post something later on today.

JR/Dancing/Linnie and Everyone else

Where are you guys?  Is everyone ok

Please check in
GS

[Kat49]

I'm so glad you're OK. We're buried here in the Philly area of PA! Over 2 ft of snow!  Anyway, sounds like a good idea and I will look for you to start a thread over there. Miss everyone and all the chatter and most of all the terrific SUPPORT! Golden, how are your headaches and neck? I hope LinnieSue is doing OK, too. Dancinginthedark, miss talking to you and you need to check in, too. We must all help each other. JR how's the tapering schedule working out for you? Connie, where are you, too? I'm so sad that this forum is in such trouble as far as money goes. I didn't realize it cost so much to keep this site running and will try to give something to help. If I can buy a bottle of fiorinal, I can certainly dip in the checkbook and give something to a cause much more worthwhile! Kat

[dancinginthedark]

Kat, Golden, JR, et al,

I miss you all and NEED our thread.  Kat, you're not the only one who has slipped off the wagon, here & there.  My doc increased my fior. from 4 to 6 because I was having such bad rebounds from off the codeine.  Did I argue?  No!  The rebounds have been hell; I actually couldn't work.  He wants me to go back to the neurologist...they think mine were from a bad head injury, well, 2.  

I started to pen a missive to you Golden last wk. & tucked it in my draft file.  Later dumped everything...aaarrrggghhhh.

Has anyone heard from Pilot?  I'm rather worried....I've never corresponded with Linnie but loved her posts & felt a real kinship to her.

If any of you want to correspond with me, please do!  ***@****.

Kat!  I hope you're feeling better after the recent tragedy in your life.  I felt so horrible for you & wished I'd had your em address.  You're a major trooper & have done phenomenally well stopping but you're clearly smart enough to know it's a slippery slope taking even minute amounts which is why us "slippery" ones need each other. :-)

We need our own bulletin board!  Anyone know how to do that?

Thinking of you all & wishing you luck & good wishes.  Please write me.  

And to Recently Engaged - You are clearly a strong-minded, determined man & that might be your strongest ally in this addiction battle.  You've rec'd phenomenally sound advice here but I want to add one thing:  Quitting the opiates for the love of your finance & family is not reason enough.  If you do it for anyone other than yourself, the first time you have a tiff with your wife or family member, you'll feel justified in using again.  You MUST stop for you and your reasons will of course encompass your love for your loved ones.  I'm 31 days off approx. 10 Tylenol 3's per day & it helped me get my motivation together by making a list of ALL the reasons why I wanted off.  I had everything from my liver (51 yr. old friend had just died from liver failure from drinking & T3's) money spent, emotional freedom, hiding,nausea, constipation etc. I also scared myself by researching effects of high doses & long term effects.  It helped!

You're a young man with a 4mo.habit which should encourage you to get off. While I don't know nearly as much about opiates as many here (they've taught me much!) I do know all the determination in the world is needed but somewhere in there, what turned the tables for me was when I sat down & analyzed *why* I was taking them.  I was stunned as the following 4 words flew onto the screen....euphoria, distraction, numbness, escape.  That was the turning point & I quit the next day.  So far so good.

YOU CAN DO IT & THIS IS A GREAT GROUP!  Take care & know you have all our best wishes for your success.

Dancing in the Dark

[The Golden Slipper]

So good to hear from you both. Please feel free to write me at ***@****.

I will try to start a thread at DrugAbuse.Com so check over there under the "support" category.

Please feel free to e-mail me too.  

Take Care
Golden Slipper

[Kat49]

Why do you suppose it was easier or should I say more "successful" in getting off the other drug vs. fiorinal? I can't believe the insidious grip it has on you once you've abused it. If taken "as needed" it's perfect for tension headaches that morph into migraines. Plus, saves you a fortune from always resorting to Imitrex. I know you said you found the side effects with the other stuff really scared you and was a key factor in quitting, but fiorinal side effects aren't the best either. Yet, knowing all I do, I continue to take one here and there for the demonic headaches or headache-to-be, risking a major relapse and taking them to feel normal (whatever that is). Pilot, please let us know how you're doing and Connie,too.  Lots of big hugs!  Kat

[happytoday]

SY,

Thanks-You for your encouragement. Also, for the hope that you are showing me! 69 days!!!!! You are kind of like my hero right now! These first thirty have been hard. Actually they were harder once I got home from detox - days 4-15. Only, today I am feeling pretty good and geting better everyday!

As I said I am using other addicts, by phone, NA Meetings, prayer, a family who after many years understands my disease, and I have a Sponsor who had a similar drug of choice. All of these things have kept me clean since coming home from treatment.

Today, I have no intention of gopoing back to that....cannot get out of bed in the morning without chewing up or snorting that Oxy first. MAN I HATED THAT FEELING WHEN MY EYES FIRST OPENED IN THE MORNING AND FEELING DOPE SICK! For now its life in life's terms.

I did have two years clean at one time, and foolishly stopped following the program. Addiction is definitely progressive and fatal, my addiction took off ten fold of where I originally starting coming into the program some five years ago!

Thanks again for your encouragement SY, I can only pray that others in this site can be as fortunate as you and I and can find a program to follow and a Higher Power to guide them. I will include you in my prayers tonight along with all the others who are struggling in here. Oh well gotta go to a NA meeting now!

God Bless You!

[dancinginthedark]

Hi Kat - GOOD question re: why getting off codeine was/is relatively easy compared to fiorinal.  First off:  I know getting & staying off opiates is bloody hell for many ppl, most of whom are too struggling with chronic pain.

However, in my case, I *think* it was rather easy for me to toss because it never really worked for my headaches.  I actually had arguements with docs who were trying to give me F with cod. because I *insisted* it didn't work as well as the plain.  I'm convinced to this day codeine & percocette made my headaches worse.  Finally, the #1 headache/neurologist here agreed & said, hell, yes, codeine makes many headaches worse & he put me back on the plain & told my GP to go along.  For me, codeine is phenomenal for broken bones, some muscle injury & menstrual pain (I can't take any motrin type drugs as I get gastric bleeding).

However, as I gradually decreased the F plain I was getting monstrous headaches, even tho it was 7 tabs every 10 wks.  The headaches would start as soon as I decr. & take about 6-8 wks. for my body to adjust to lower dosage.  That's when I started on the codeine tho I'd abused it before for the same reason.

Lke you, I started to get headaches in h. school.  I can see myself in 10th grade, tears in my eyes, holding my head in class.  I checked with Mom & yes, they gave me F then!  However, my body chemistry wasn't as yet developed ;-) & I hated it. :-) Took it for a yr. or so & that was that for about 10 yrs. when the headaches came back with a vengeance - before the car accident, skull fracture, wee ;-) coma from losing consciousness in shower last yr. (I had undiagnosed HYPOtension for yrs.)  Between the return of the headaches about 10-12 yrs. ago & the injuries, etc. my use of F became gradually but completely problematic.

I so know what you mean abut how it stops those suckers dead in their tracks if you catch it right away.  I've explained this to docs many x & most have looked at me like I was strange.  But 1 at the outset can do it.  One aft. last wk. I'd just run out & couldn't pick up til early next am.  And a monster was coming on.  I stayed calm, had a bath, iced my head, went for a walk, took Imitrex, 3 Exedrin, etc. By the time I could pick-up my precription I was almost blind from pain.  I immed. took 2...nothing...few more...12 hrs. later I'd had about 8 & it was just starting to wane.  

I do believe some of us are susceptible to chronic headaches & even my neurologist isn't entirely sure if mine are from the head/neck injuries or tension.  As he said, probably a bit of both.  Last x I saw him I told him I was going off F slow & would be off it...whenever!  He was very enthused but cautioned me not to get my hopes up because he wasn't convinced I'd be headache free & urged me to go for it but to accept I might have to settle for decr. the amt.  I thought, WATCH ME! & soldiered on but now I'm wondering myself.  I know I'm addicted but I am close to dysfunctional w/out & considering the headaches I've had going off codeine, I cannot bear to imagine what awaits me when I get off this.  If ever.  

PLEASE WRITE ME!  It's important.  Think we might have a new home!

Miss you guys.  Great to hear from y'all & much love to the opiate folks, of which I'm one!

Dancing in the Dark

[Kat49]

It seems that most people on this forum who've cut F use have experienced excruciating headaches for a long period of time! When I detoxed CT from 10 to 0 the first time and threw up 'til the cows came home, the "banger" lasted 3-4 days max. Then, a few weeks later, I could feel this DEEP tension building in my neck from a bad day at work and took "JUST ONE" and ended up using more and more and ....... you know the drill! I believe you or whoever quoted their doc as saying it stays in your system 6-8 wks. but it's very hard for me to believe that. I've had a tox screen done for my own piece of mind (I have a friend whose hubby is a cardiologist with connections) and NO F showed in my system after 3 wks. This is the type of tox screen the state police use to make their case in drug arrests and is very sensitive. I get major headaches, but just not the detox ones everyone describes for months. Well, hope to hear from you again and everyone else!  Kat

[dancinginthedark]

I must get back to work!

Re: your tox screen.  I *think* those are to show what's in your bloodstream, which I believe means active, translating to current impairment.  I'm not sure it would be the same as to what your cells & organs might be holding onto...dunno.  Now my journalistic curiosity is getting the better of me.  NOT NOW but I know I'll be checking it out later....sigh...;-)

They say valium stays in your system for 3 mos. & this I know to be true yet if I had a tox screen a wk. after I'd stopped, I'm sure it wouldn't show up because there's no way you're impaired.  JUST INSANE!

Write me!  

Ciao bella,

Dancing

[freezing]

Does anyone know if tapering off of heroin is different than tapering off of hydrocone, or oxy, or other opiates?  How does tapering off of different opiates differ, respectively?  Are there easier/harder opiates to taper with?  Then the big question...why???  If it's half life, which I have heard, then wouldn't heroin be easier due to it's relatively shorter half life?  Plus, I never understood why oxycontin is longer than percocet when it's the same chemical.  Isn't it just the coating that makes oxycontin last longer, as opposed to the chemical formulation?  

Please provide insights if you have any.  Thanks a lot and well wishes to all.  (I need help!  This could be helpful.  Thanks.)

[FiorinalJR]

Yeow!  They deleted our Fioricet thread, and we can't post on the other one.  I sent on $$$ - but it sure didn;t help us Fiorinal/Fioricet abusers.  I hope it comes bacl soon.  Meanwhile I guess all we can do is what I just did - look thru all the threads for familiar names!

I hope you're all okay.  I am down to 6/day, but need 7 or even 8 now and then.  Wicked, horrible headaches.  I'm trying, but it's tough.  Together, we can make it.

I gotta go - lots of snowe to move.  I'll try to write later.  Everyone, we need each other.  Please keep posting!

Love,   JR

[pepsi4]

Thanks for your responses -- I really appreciate it.  I'm trying to taper off of the equivalent of approx. 20 percs per day (although I've used a combination of opiates (vicodin, codeine, etc).  I tried going cold turkey (when I was at 25 per day), but that was too tough, so I thought it might be a lttle easier if I cut down first -- just looking for a little guidance.  I need to be able to function at work, so I really think I need to cut down before stopping completely.  The biggest problem when stopping is restlessness -- especially at night.  At this point, I've cut down about 25% in about 1 week and feel fairly comfortable, but not great.  I guess I don't want to drag out the inevitable pain, and I'm sick of taking drugs.  
I plan on using the Thomas recipe when I stop completely, but I don't think I can do that yet, and still work.  I think I may plan a 4 day "vacation" in about 6 weeks, just in case.  Any suggestions for the restlessness caused by withdrawal (other than Valium, etc)?  For the record, I'm not kidding myself about addiction -- enough said :)  Peace to all

[dancinginthedark]

Kat, JR, Golden, Pilot, et al

WOULD YOU PLS WRITE ME ASAP?  I've found us a home for fior. heads & just make up a reply address.  I haven't a clue how to do this but you guys must.

GET WITH IT!  We have our own thread!!!!!!  When we get in there & know more, we can try & proffer same to the opiate folk.

Silly billies....:-)

BTW; JR, you dear man.  You've come so far & I don't doubt you must be suffering miserably with these headaches.  You've demonstrated remarkable courage & you are going to get there.  If the goal is A to Z ;-), you may have to take a stop or 9 along the by-way but you'll still get there.  There is no way you could have made the progress you have w/out the balls to go the distance.  Frankly, I'm terrified to keep going & yer damn tootin' we need each other.

Hope to hear from y'all or I'm going to have to go find some other supersonically intelligent, supportive, caring, strong & courageous people.

I'm sure I'll find plenty under every bar-stool, I mean - pill bottle!

Best,

Dancing

[Kat49]

DUHHHHH - I never thought of it that way! Your bloodstream is probably all that it is for. If you read my earlier posts (that have been retired in the archives) I said my friend whose hubby is a cardiologist is MAJORLY addicted to F. That's the one who I got to convince him to order this - it was for her and I. She is still addicted and a MESS!! Her headaches are constant - rebound I'm sure. She doesn't want to give them up because she knows she has a neverending supply - him! THese doctors look the other way and are in major denial when it comes to their wives. I guess because they're never home. Oh well - thanks for the enlightenment!  Kat

[Ewizz]

I am ready to begin a taper of 160mg of oxycontin, the exact amount you statred from. I am doing 80mgs in the a.m. and 80mg in the p.m....

I've only been taking the oxy's for a month but prior to that I was addicted to oxy 3 years ago and got off oxy and on buprenex, but I became addicted to that. I hadn't been high in so long that I went a a little binge that quickly turned in a big habit.

I was wondering if you would be a bit more specific about how you did it and what you symtoms (symptoms) were.


Thanks

[theGolden1]

Thank you for the encouraging words. Patience is hard for me. I want to get everything done yesterday (smile) Last night I found a website on benzos. It was for helping long term users to get clean. I was thinking of a friend of mine and then I saw that ambien and sonata were listed as "hypnotics" .... they spoke about the half life of the drugs .... ambien was 2 hours and valium was 100hrs!! Zanex was 10 to 20 hrs. When this tramadol thing is over, I want to stop using ambien. I hope I can sleep without it. I have a question .... does benadryl mix with tramadol? Sometimes I'd like to try benadryl, but I'm afraid of mixing the wrong drugs .... stay kool ... Goldie

[Oxyclean]

For me, I started tappering off the Oxycontin by 10mg a week. So, it was about 4 months of tappering. I am a diabetic, so I did end up in the ER a few times. My symptoms were just like the bad case of the flu. If you could taper slower than that, you will have less withdrawal. It got really hard for me with the lower doses. Like they say the lower the slower. My doctor was in a big hurry to get me off these meds because the hospital that I went to during withdrawal accused her of over medicating me. If you can find someone to hand out to you your meds, you will not be tempted to take extra to feel better. If you can get a Catapress patch, like I talked about before, that will help. Many people use Thomas's receipe here but I could not hold any of it down. Also, if you can get something to help you sleep, that will be a big help. I still am having a hard time with that. Hot baths help with the body aches. Good luck to you. You will feel so much better, you'll see. I hope this helps, if you have any other questions, just ask, I read this forum daily. This is the place to be....

[FiorinalJR]

Folks, Golden Slipper found another site.  It's great, and there's plenty of room to continue posting.  Why don't we all move to that site and make IT the one we use.  I'm afraid it looks like this one is constantly running out of space.

Here's the new site:   http://www.drugabuse.com/boards/   .  

The first thing you have to do when you go to the site is register, and you will need a valid e-mail address.  Then they immediately send you an e-mail back with a confirmation that you click on, and you're in and able to post.'

Once you do this, look for the go to the "Message Boards" and look for the "Support" section.  Then you will see "Fioricet Addiction" - that's where we are.

Please, we NEED to stay in touch.  Please go to the site and register, then post so we know you're there.  We will make that site our rgular, instead of this one.  Once we hear from everyone, lets start "talking" again.

Hope to "see" you over there soon!

JR

[Kat49]

Just got back from work and will see you and hopefully everyone else on other site!  Kat

[Kat49]

For some reason I'm having a very difficult registering on this new site. They've emailed me and back & forth and something isn't clicking. Figures!! I've read all your posts and hopefully I'll get in tonight. Kat

[Wardman]

The other site has a HUGE amount of drama on it.  I have been there as well for 2 years.  I come here for the most support.  There are some nice people there, but it's not monitored allowing for some "trolls" to run amok on the board.  I find this site vastly superior.

[Kat49]

I have to agree with Gman. I've read alot of what goes on there in dialogue and there are some not-so-nice people there. One even admits that "this place is not as nice as Medhelp"  I figure at this point, it's a place where we who are addicted to fiorinal can meet and support each other without being cut off or limited. I think this forum is the best site of all, BY FAR!!

[RobynBanks]

From my experience, heroin is not a 'different' detox from oxys, codeine etc...they are all narcotics. Heroin and methadone are a more INTENSE withdrawl (withdrawal).
Hope that helps.

[RobynBanks]

If you get rebounds with the regular fiorinol (no codeine) its probably from the caffeine.

[Vicqueennomore]

Don't know the your whole story but this is what I did from a 12-15 a day Vicodin ES. First start with reading the postings from the last month or so, that's how I started. I "lurked" and learned and then I had more questions and I posted those questions and so on....
On here is the how, why, when and advice from alot of great people...read, read, read and then decide which would work best for you. Hope that helps!! It did me!!
Good luck and good reading!!!
VIC(odin)QUEEN-NO-MORE

[billsm]

I want to try to go cold turkey from about 20 vicodin/day. Any help?

[madcowl]

i just found  your site  when looking up withdrawel symptoms. i had a neck surgery  on 2-5-03 and was having bad arm pain pryor to the surgery  so the doc had me on vicodin . it helped a lot with pain but i had to take 2 at a time  to get releif . the refferring doc warned me repeatedly about becoming  addicted to the pain killers . i have had 4 other surgeries in the past 5 years from inguenal hernias to 2 rotator cuff repairs . i have been on  pain killers a lot  but never tried to stop them this sudden , my pain never felt  so less so soon but this   ruptured disc repair felt so much  better so much faster , i cut down from 10 pills a day to  2 pills a day. i started getting chills and loss of appetite and nausea and diarrea (diarrhea) ,  the worst  part was bad  and  suicdal thoughts . i  have lots of plans and dont live a boring life   so it's not that i have nothing to look forward to  but it  came on so strong and i felt so bad i had to look and see if this could be the result of trying to stop so  quickly . i have plenty more pills and wonder if i should  slowly wean down . they are the vicodin  hp  and are 10/650 mg . what is  your opinion of what i should do to  get off them my neck hurts some but i dont want to stay on these for long

[NEW ORLEANS LADY]

I also looked up the drugabuse.com website but it seemed a little confusing to me--This is the place where I have found the most caring compassionate people/and what I have ahead of me--(another withdrawal) this is where I'll come for my support--I only hope one day I'll be able to repay all the people that have literally saved my life--take care all you wonderful people--God Bless--

[divawritr]

Hello Everyone!
I,too, am a "newbie" to this thread.  And I too feel it is a WONDERFUL place for someone like me.

I don't know why G-d made me an addict, but I know I must accept it and learn how to control it.

My latest addiction in life is morphine.  I am on 15mg. ms contin to be taken no more than 4x daily.  I take it as a result of bone pain.
However, the pain is no longer that bad but ofcourse I am addicted to the pills.  My doctor has warned me also.  In fact he tried to wean me off of 4x daily to 3x.  However, being the addict that I am, I could not comply!  In fact, the sad truth is that I take 4 AT ONE TIME.  I also take 3 more in the evening before bed, as I perceive that I still don't "feel" that well.  

I know I am screwing up badly.  Can ANYONE else relate to this madness???

[oxic]

Hey Bill, try this out for size:Thomas Detox Recipe

PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas

This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (immodium) (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium (immodium) aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you.

Good Luck to You!!!

percs no more

[madcowl]

boy i am  really  surprised to see this withdrawel  problem is so widespread . i actually got my regular vicodin refilled  so i can wean off the  hp vicodin  better . i spoke to the pharmacist today also and she concluded i was  droppping the dose way too fast and agreed  that people get  the  chills and flu  symtoms (symptoms) .  i am glad to hear that i am not on such strong stuff as oxy contin as  some of you  are , i hear it is   much worse . i now know i can slowly get off this bad ride and feel better  soon . thanks for  all the  honesty you guys have here on the board with these problems , i feel better knowing what is  causing the  bad feelings .

[britboy]

hi i havent been on for a while, last time i was on i was talking about my addiction to over the counter painkillers called solpadeine (paracetamol and codeine) since then i have been prescribed codeine by my doctor, this was about 9 months ago. I was prescribed it to accompany loperamide to control my bad stomachs. Now i am addicted to both drugs and especially the codeine and suprisingly the loperamide, i amd concerned about the damage to my liver, i am only 17, i have to tried to stop, and i hadn;t taken codeine in a week untill tonight, i dont want to take it again but i was wondering if i will be back to square one now that i took that dose tonight! As for the loperamide, i have cut that down but cannot completely stop cos of my supposed IBS, do u think i will have damaged my liver, i was taking aproximatly 16mg of loperamide a day and 60mg of codeine.

[mrmichael67]

One week is a good head start.  Don't pick up again and you should be fine.  Just stay the course.  You aren't back to square one just yet, but you will get there if you keep using.  Once you develop a tolerance to opiates such as codeine and you quit, your tolerance will drop right back down.  But, it will go right back to where it was very quickly......a couple of days...literally.  Please, take my advice and don't try to find out how long it takes you.

[Thomas03]

In what sense are you addicted to loperamide? Do you mean you get diahrea if you stop? You stand a good chance of having that as a result of stopping the codeine. Though loperamide (Imodium (immodium)) is an opioid, it only binds to receptors that control bowel motility. Of course, codiene binds to those same receptors, as well as those that affect pain perception, sense of well being, etc. 16mg of loperamide is 8 OTC pills. I would think your young liver would be OK at least as far as the loperamide use is concerned. The Tylenol in your codeine is probably a bigger danger to your liver than high normal range loperamide dosages.

Thomas

[mm2115]

just wondering where one would think i am at.  have fifty 5s of oxyecodone by doc and been on for shoulder replacement for three mos and am scared ******** tried last before this last refill but couldn do it cold turkey do you think i will if tapering off too go through such severe withdrawals as a higher dose
mm