slow methadone detox

[sharonver]

Anyone out there have any experience in detoxing slow from methadone?  I have been detoxing 1 mg. every other week.  I was on 65 mg for over 15 years!  I was doing ok until I got to 6 mg. now the old familiar withdrawal symptoms are returning.  I could use some feedback on this please...

[Bodymechanic]

You will make your life much easier if you switch to buprenex. There is nothing else that will help you reach your goal while remaining sane.  Use 1-2mg a day at first but no more.  You can stay on the buprenex for as long as you like but you should be fine in about 2-3 months.  I have been using it and I have had no trouble reducing the dose. I use it for pain but it seems I can get by with less and less as time passes.  I cannot say enough good things about this drug when compared to other opiates. You can detox and give your brain receptors a chance to heal at the same time. The is no other drug that has this property.

I did a methadone detox from over 100mg a day.  It was hell but that was 20 years ago. The buprenex was not an option at the time.  If it were, I would definately have done it.  You can stay with your current plan and still be successful but I think you will be tormenting yourself needlessly.

[2bpainfree]

I went thru the exact same thing detoxing from methadone which I just completed last October.  When I got down to 8 mg I was getting horrible withdrawals and I was going down 1 mg a week at this time.  They told me to go even slower like 1mg a week, I even knew people who go down 1mg every month.  I was stubborn enough to suffer it out and continue my 1 mg a week using clonidine which helped very little.  When I was completely done I had horrible w/d's for over 2 weeks.  I dont recommend my method.  Either go down slower or try to get the Buprenex body mechanic was taking about.  Good luck

Brian

[sharonver]

How would I get this Buprenix?  Can you tell me more about it? Sounds like it might really help me.  Thanks so much...

Sharon

[sharonver]

Also, if I go on this drug will I then have to withdraw from that too and prolong the withdrawl symptoms?  Anybody out there use this to detox from meth?  Very interested in this...

Sharon

[hyjack]

If you can find a Doc to prescribe you Bup, you can go directly onto that if you are on 30 mg meth or below.  I've never detoxed from bup, but I have tapered on occasions, and it's a breeze compared to meth.

It holds you similarly to the meth, for me, even better.  If I'm not in pain, then I don't have to take it, and NO WITHDRAWALS.  That is the best thing to not have to worry about withdrwals.

It was just approved in Oct., so it is difficult at this time to find it.  But it is becoming more wide spread.

In your case, I think an addictionologist would be your best bet.  I've had bad luck with pain management docs, but that's just me.  Some states may have better resources.

It comes in the form of Subutex/Temgesic (sublingual) and Buprenex (injectible).  I take a compounded version that is specifically made for me.  I think that when Subutex is readily available here, then I probably will be switched to that.

If you go to google.com and do a search for buprenorphine, you will find some answers to your questions...I hope.

I hope I've helped.

[sharonver]

I just looked it up on the internet.  I was very excited at first, it sounded like it could be the ideal thing that I need to complete this detox.  My mental state is very good, it is just the physical withdrawal that I worry about.  But after reading on it, it sounds like it may be very difficult for me to obtain.  You have to have a liscenced physician in addictions to dispense it,and many pharmacies may not even carry it. This means my family doctor can't prescribe it and I don't know if my clinic will approve of it. But I will certainly check into it. It would be nice if the methadone clinic would agree to it. Any other ideas on how to get this will be appreciated...

Thanks so much...  I see some light at the end of this lonnng tunnel!
Sharon

[sharonver]

I am in tears right now, right when I think that maybe there is some hope to help me get through this something happens to blow it all away!!!  I just called my clinic excitingly telling them of this drug i would like to try and they said they are doing a study on it and that they can;t give it out, and that it will still put me in the same boat that I am in now.  I tried to tell them that I think that the withdrawals would be so much easier to go through but she just said she had to hang up she was too busy to talk to me about it!  I am so upset.  There is not addictionologist in my area.  I don't know what to do.

Sharon

[theGolden1]

I am trying to get over the flu.I went to the doctor and I am on amoxicillin and robotussin. I wanted to appologize if my post to southernbelle and 1st24 came out a little strong. I am so sorry.
I should be quiet until I have my own act together. I get emotional when I see such wonderful people having to "feel bad" about this problem. Hold your head up high ..... you are more than this and you will prevail .... (here I go again) ... Happy New Year Everyone

[Rex1]

Did you talk with the actual doctor? Nurses/receptionists are often there to get rid of you.

Call back and demand to speak with the doc himself/herself. Also, realize today may not be the best day to get a lot of sympathy from any dr's office - they are likely slammed trying to finish and get out early!

Rex

[hyjack]

What state do you live in?

[sharonver]

I spoke to the director of the program!!  She makes all the rules!  I asked her if I made an app't with the doctor could I possibly look into this?  She said they are studying it and it wouldn't help to make an app't because he won't give it to me.
I live in CT.

Sharon

[Rex1]

There are always always always other options when you need treatment like this. Don't let your frustration snowball.

There are sometimes clinical studies done and perhaps you can partipate

Can you switch doctors?

IMO, it is always better to make an appointment and have a heart to heart with the doc in person. This way, they are getitng paid, their primary responsibility, and they can also sympathize with you better.

If I counted the numbers of times doctors told me know, only to later agree, it would be over 5 times. You just have to remember the golden rule with docs - they work for you, not the other way around.

Also, you will get their attention when you let them know that you are contacting the insurance company's director and they will be getting a call!

Good luck!

Rex

[hyjack]

I am in Maine, so we're not that far.  My addictionologist is in Westbrook, which is southern Maine.  If you want his name and number, let me know.  It'll be worth your while, I promise.

***@****

[hyjack]

I did a search for Addictionologists in CT.

There are a lot.

www.asam.org/Frames.html  go to member directory and just type in CT under the city.  There will be quite a few to choose from.  Then you start calling them all.  You will find one, I bet, that will be willing to prescribe you bup.

Under that same site, you will find some info on Bup.  

Another option is to call your insurance company (if you have one) and tell them what is going on and they will help you find an addictionologist to suit your needs.  You might have to travel.  I travel 150 miles to see mine.  But like I said, it's worth every mile.

[sharonver]

I looked at the site there are 10 doctors in CT. but it doesn't really specify that they are addictionologist, only that they have an interest in ADM.

Sharon

[sharonver]

I did check out that site and they listed 10 doctors in CT. but they didn't specify that they were addictionologist they said they had interest in ADM (addiction medicine)I guess I could try calling anyways.

[hyjack]

That is the American Society of Addiction Medicine.  I believe out of the 14 listed, one could help you.  You have your work cut out for you.  If I can help further, don't hesitate to email me.

[sharonver]

sorry for the double message, it didn't show up the first time, so I re-typed it.  Anyways I'm feeling kind of low right now. I had such high hopes a few hours ago, I thought that maybe I could actually get some relief. Now I have my doubts.  My family doctor is pretty understanding but you have to have a special liscence to dispense this I read.  Have a wonderful New Years Eve everyone!  I will be thinking about all of you tonight and hoping that everyone is hanging in there!

Sharon

[PeaceNick]

Hi,
  I've been reading the various correspondences.  I know where you are right now...you think you have finally found a way out of your personal hell/slavery and the folks at the Meth Clinic are less than sympathetic.  One thing I have learned about Meth clinic staffmembers is that they are little more than licensed drug dealers! I also know that addicts like us want what we want and we want it NOW!!  My advice, for what it is worth.  Take a step back, gather your wits and make the phone calls you need to make.  If not today, you WILL eventually find someone willing to help you.  You don't neccessarily need the clinics permission to go on Bup.  :-)  In fact, I suspect that their motives for steering you away from this alternative may be shady. (i.e. you no longer need Methadone if you kick with Buprenorphine and they no longer get paid by either you or some insurance co.)  I may sound cynnical, but I have known heroin dealers that were more sympathetic than so-called Meth clinic 'counselors'.

Peace and Blessings,
Patrick

[vikequeen]

Can someone do an addictionologist search for someone in my area I live in Md between Dc and Frederick much appreciated I am a blonde and don't know how lol lol THanks Love Badd

[PeaceNick]

Hey,
Just go to http://www.asam.org and click on 'Search ASAM' and you should be able to fing what your'e looking for.

BTW,
Why did the Blonde climb over the glass wall?

To see what was on the other side.   :-)

[liquidgal]

Hi everyone! :-)

I am *sorry* to post down here...but it is the most relevant topic to my own circumstances & after being here for a few days it is most frustrating to be told that the forum is full for new topics - so I hope no-one minds me tapping my situation out down here?

Anyhow - first of all, my support to the OP - it is very hard to get BUP - even here in Australia. YOU can DO IT though!....it can be a matter of sheer persistence, but if you keep trying, you will find a prescriber.

My situation is kinda similiar. I have been on Methadone for 7 years. My highest dose was 75 mg & my lowest 4 mg. For the last 3 years, I have ranged from 9mg (during my 3rd pregnancy) to 30mg (no higher) - which was my stable dose for the last year.
Yesterday (31st DEC 2002 9am) was my last dosing day. Tomorrow (Jan 2nd 2003 10am) I start BUP. I need to have 48 hours b/w the last meth dose & the 1st BUP dose.

In the last 3 years my life has really began to change direction. I have 3 beautiful healthy children, I gave up smoking (after a pack a day for 13 years), began to really lose & lost the desire to "use".
Furthermore I got a terrific job (& good jobs are hard to get "downunder"). I have worked for the last year trying to juggle/maintain MMT - & believe me I have *hated* it - fearing every day that I had to got to the chemist that I would be seen by someone from work.

I have Jan & early Feb off work & I am coming off the METH. Starting today! I am very motivated, my "headspace" is good, really good. But I've never come off meth before & from all I have read it can be really really hard :-(

I am pinning my hopes on the BUP.

I am starting on the 2nd with a 7 day stabalization period & then an 8-10 day withdrawal period  -   Total days on BUP 15-17 days. So completely off both by the 17-19th. I then have until the 10th Feb before I HAVE to return to work (so a little over 3 wks). I do have some obligations in late Jan - but if I HAVE to to I can defer them.

I know how quick this is & I am concerned about it...but it is all I have to work with.

ANY thoughts, suggestions, feedback, comments would be GREATLY appreciated.

I will try & post this to the forum as new question if it will ever let me!

Thankyou if you've read this far!

liquidgal

[teeitup]

Congratulations on your accomplishments, post anywhere you can. you don't have to wait for the system to let you start a new question, everyone does it. read all the post, there are several ideas for your situation. I'm not sure under what question but I know I've seen them. good luck and happy new year!

teeitup!

[sedativist]

I have a similar story.  I was at 70mg for over 2 yrs, then started a slow detox, 1mg/week. Then went I got to exactly half way, 35-37mg. that's when the WD started.  I went to a Dr., got clonidine, other meds for nausea, stomach cramps, muscle cramps, sleeplessness, etc.  Then, at 15mg, I had oral surgery.  At this point, my dose is barely holding me at all.  After 12 hours of surgery, general anesthesia, when they woke me up, I was sicker than hell.  So they gave me some opiates, but the next day etc., was awful.  So, I had the clinic raise my dose by 12mg and felt great, and started the detox again.  I went down 1mg/10 days.  Once again didn't feel much WD till about half way, like 12mg.  The rest is history, I could live with most of the physical stuff.  However, after I took my last mg.,the emotional stuff started.  Really bad!  I've been off methatdone for 2 months, still have some physical WD, and had to go on antidepressants.  The buprenorphine has been the big deal for over 6 or 7 years, that I know of.  However, getting it is damned near impossible.  I live in Seattle, and know of only one in-patient detox that uses it, but they can only give it to you for 3 or 4 days, and that's not enough.  If you can find it, awesome.  If not continue your slow detox, if you get really uncomfortable, either go up a few mgs. or stop for a while.  Good Luck!

[Witchywoman]

Sorry to break the thread, but I'm going to be away for a few weeks, and wanted to say Happy New Year to all you wonderful people, and to also say thank you, deeply to all of you for constantly being there for me, and for helping me stay clean.

I've been so busy with work that it has been impossible to post much these past few days, but please know that I hold a special place in my heart for this group, and I am forever grateful for what has been given to me.

I'm going away for a vacation, for my 40th birthday (yay! I made it!, lol), and will be back around January 13, and will be able to post more then.

For all you folks going through detox, hang in there, there is hope and light there, just always keep reaching.

I love you all, very much.

WW

[pon]

WW, have a wonderful vacation...you deserve it...thank you for always being there when we are in need.  May 2003 bring you only happiness.

I would also like to wish everyone else here a happy new year...2002 was atough year for me and it is ending on a very good note of being clean and having my thir daughter due exactly one month from today....

May each and every one of us here find the peace, strength and freedom that we deserve, and may we all find it in 2003!

prayers for all and happy new year

pon

[hellbent]

What a great post. Very cool, very sweet. Have a good time.

[Bodymechanic]

This is important!!!!  Although there are still a number of bullshit regulations regarding buprenex as an ADDICTION medication, it is perfectly legal and ethical to dispense as a PAIN medication.  Be persistant, there is big money involved in the methadone maintainance business. Don't let these self serving assholes control your life and future happiness.  As far as your clinic "studying it", I have grave doubts.  It has been studied to death both here and in Europe.

[hookedup]

Your clinic is not going to be gung-ho on you switching
to buprenorphine. This could start a chain-reaction and that
can be costly. The purpose of legalizing buprenorphine was so
people could get out of the clinic system and supposedly this
would give people who would'nt have seeked help before another
option.

I think starting last October, Doctors that wanted to prescribe
buprenorphine to patients had to take an 8 hour class. Which was
available to them on-line. And I think everything is a go starting Jan. 2003 (NOW)

So the problem is locating a Doctor. I was told the watchdog
website was going to post them. But I have'nt found them yet.
I guess we're going to have to let our fingers do the walking.

It bothered me to see you so discouraged. Look at the bright
side, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I'm planning
on doing the same thing. I'm going down 1mlg. every three days
I started at 140mlg. and I'm down to 50mlg. From what I've read
its easier to switch below 30mgls. You've got it made! All you
have to do is find a Doc. and you will.

ES

[sharonver]

Happy New Year to everyone:

I just got back from my fiance's and couldn't wait to log on to see if there was anymore info. I am so very grateful for everyones' input, info and compassionate words. I was starting to get a little bit discouraged but after reading all of these comments I feel that I have the strength to see this through. By hook or crook I will find a doctor to prescribe this med for me. Tomorrow (my birthday) is the day I start calling different doctors, I don't care how far I have to drive. Wish me luck.  And please keep me informed on any info that might be useful on this issue. And now that I think about it I can see why the clinic wasn't very helpful!! Its bad enough they kept me on this for so many years I was ready (mentally) to come off more than 10 years ago. And if it wasn't for the physical part I would be off by now!!  May this new year be a positive and healthy one for you all...

[Patrice]

You have been on methadone for a long time.......I am not a doctor so I am just going to give you a suggestion.....It may be very difficult to find a doctor who will prescribe Buph at this time.....Since you have been on methadone for so long, why are you in such a hurry...I had a friend who detoxed over a period of six years..he dropped 1mg a week....When he started to feel ill, he would go up a mg or two...But he is now drug free and has been since January 1, 1997....It can be done, but do it the right way...Buph will also cause major WD..I know becasue I was on a study..Why go through the Hell of kicking 2 drugs instead of one...JMHO


NoNaForMe

[pillhell]

MY HEART GOES OUT TO YOU.I AM IN NO POSITION TO OFFER ADVICE.SINCE I AM IN A SIMILAR SITUATION.I KICKED ALL THE PAIN MEDS I WAS ON WITH METH.THAT WAS A YEAR AGO.I DID THE PAIN MEDS FOR ABOUT 4 YEARS.ALOT OF PEOPLE TELL ME HOW PROUD I SHOULD BE.BUT I DON'T FEEL PROUD AT ALL.I'D DO ANYTHING TO KICK THIS METH.I DON'T HAVE A DOC. OR METH. MAINT. PROGRAM.MY COUSIN SELLS ME 35 WAFERS A MONTH.I'M NOT REAL PROUD I GET THIS ON THE STREET.I'VE TRIED TO TAPER,BUT CAN'T GET LOWER THAN 10 MG. A DAY.ITS BEEN ABOUT 20 MG. A DAY.I'D LOVE TO BE ABLE TO FIND THIS BUPRENEX,LIKE YOU AND MANY OTHERS I'M SURE.ONE PROBLEM-NO DOC,NO INSURANCE.ITS ME AND MY HUSBAND SO I'M GONNA PAY OUT THE ASS.BUT REALLY WHAT I PAY FOR THE METH. I'M SURE I COULD FIND A WAY.WELL IM SORRY IM RAMBLING.GOOD LUCK TO YOU.DON'T GIVE UP!YEAH I SHOULD TAKE MY OWN ADVICE.

[sharonver]

NoNaForMe- I know that I would have to withdraw from this med also but I was under the impression that the withdrawals are a lot milder!  I am down to 6mg. but the meth has been in my system for lots of years. So I am hoping that this med will get me through the worst of it. Then I will taper off the new med. with hopefully less withdrawal. Anything is worth a try right now, I am so ready to come off!

Pillhell- methadone is one of the worse drugs to get off. If you want to know what i have been doing so far to get where I am now you can email me. I was on 65mg and now down to 6mg.  The last few mgs are the hardest! My advise to you is to keep up with this forum, they have lots of good ideas and talking to them can really help.

[MethMan]

I have to agree with NoNaforme.  While bup will curb the WD's, you are simply trading one for the other.
I was in a meth clinic for over 16 years. Today is day 61 for me.
My point is, regardless of what you may think, two things are for sure.
1.  There is NO magic drug to release you from witnessing WD.
2.  You CAN get off Methadone.

If you have a legitimate reason (Pain Management), then you will need to evaluate whether or not you need something to regulate that pain.  For me, I lied to myself for years in a methadone clinic saying I had to have it because of my back but in fact, I was afraid of the withdrawals.

If you are NOT a chronic pain patient and you want to be off Methadone, you can do it.  You'll need the "Thomas Recipe", Clonidine to regulate your blood pressure, Klonipin for the anxiety and something to help you sleep. All these can be had by going to an addictionologist or even a GP (provided you can find one that doesn't worship him/herself).  All these things are to assist in your physical withdrawals.  For the hard part, you'll need a support mechanism that can walk with you through the tough spots.  But, if you're reading this, you've already found that tool.

To get on Bup is to trade and prolong.  When I was in acute withdrawals, Bup sure sounded good to me too.  But, I decided to get the hell out of the way on this hell and simply took the WD's.  The biggest question I had was what could I expect to feel?  Well, it isn't a picnic for the first 10 days.  Matter of fact, you'd have to get better to die.  But... "This too shall pass." was the mantra I used.  When in the first 10 days (and freaking a bit), I received help from old timers here that did all the hard work for me.  All I did was follow in their footsteps.  After the first 10 days, you can expect to feel hammered, but functional.  Even though you won't feel like it, you will need to get up and move.  Walk in circles.  Do ANYTHING physical.  This is what helps your brain start to reform pathways that were dormant from years of not being needed.  After 30 days, you'll start feeling "OK".  Past Day 60, all I feel is SLIGHT fatigue.  The achiness is pretty much gone and I have zero cravings. Now, I go out and do things that I didn't bother doing before. Like living life.  Yesterday, I went to the lake and skipped rocks.  Sounds stupid, but when I was actively using, doing quiet **** like that didn't even cross my mind.

Why does it take so long?  When someone asked "Why does Day 5 of withdrawal feel so bad" months ago, someone much wiser than I said "Because Day 5 of using felt so good.".  There's a lot of wisdom in that response.

Regarding NA\AA or whatever:  While some people get a LOT of help from these fine organizations, some don't and are equally effective in their journey to be free of this life constraint we call addiction.  I went the in-patient detox route and was there for 40 days.  All the while, the 12 steps were preached.  90 days, 90 meetings.  When I got out, instead of any meetings, I just popped in here and other places to help me work through issues.  Personally, I don't see any merit in the old adage, "Once an addict always an addict.". Always brings the question to mind, "Why bother?".   Do it YOUR way.  Just do it. (Sorry Nike, I stepped on your slogan a little. :)

Good luck on your quest to get your life back!

Peace,
Mike

[sharonver]

It is really confusing... I am hearing many people tell me that if I go on this med it will help me get through the worse of this! Now you are saying that it will only make things worse! I know that they say that no two people go through withdrawal the same. Some people are stronger than others. I read a lot on this med and the info seems to be telling me that this will help me get through the meth withdrawals and the bup. withdrawals will be a lot less severe. If this is true wouldn't it be worth trying?

Sharon

[MethMan]

You are right.  Everyone is different.  I can only provide information that I have lived through.

For me, trading one addictive substance for another addictive substance does not make sense.  I was either ready to rock and roll or I wasn't.

In my opinion Bup has all the same promises that "non-addictive" Ultram had.

All that said, I am sure that Bup will help people get off their drug of choice.  There are different paths to the same end result.  That's why I said "Do it YOUR way", not mine or anyone else's for that matter.  All I can really do to hopefully help is to tell you how I've done it and hope in some way it helps you.  That's what everyone else is doing for you too.  All I was trying to do is help give you "both sides of the coin" so you can decide what is the best route to take for your particular situation.  No matter what you choose, I wish you all the success possible.  There is life after after addiction.  And it is as fine as a Steve Vai riff.

Peace,
Mike

[sharonver]

Thanks Mike..

I defininetly want to hear both sides of this. I am very ready to get off and I am searching for the most comfortable (isn't everybody?) I think that if it wasn't for having to go to work everyday I would probably try to make it without any other meds but it has been hell at work. I am very encouraged to hear that it can be done! Just the thought of me being a 70-80 year old waltzing into the clinic each week scares me to death!!

Sharon

[Rex1]

Mike,

It is so very good to see you back here. I hope you being gone is not my fault, and welcome you back.

I am on day 39 now, the new year has arrived.

Where have you been, and how have you been?

Rex

[hippy]

now skipping stnones , is very good.
it's like in the movie feild of dreams
.the father and son get to have that catch.

that is waht we are trying to recover
INNOCENCE to a certain extent.

and awareness, we wake up.

methmike - your writeing is very strong in the sense
it is from your heart, you have a lot to offer.

peace!!!!
had to take off from work , to rest thr knees.
doctors orders. so it will be a 5 day week end.
i already feel guilty,

[vikequeen]

Rex I commend you for day 39 but I have to admit I am a little jealous as well, I meant to make jan 1 my start(end) date but on the 31st I told my specialist I needed something for pain and he gave me 24 7.5's I am only prolonging the inevitable, I sit here and ask myself how could I ley myslef relapse and for this long? Since Mid sept 2001. I had 5 happy years clean. I remember in NA and detox they kept telling you your life will get so better after you get clean, good things will happen, after a few weeks I was like bullcrap, but looking back I'd give anything to be clean like I was but I have to go thru it, I have no choice. I have used up all my chances since Jan of 96 I have been in one rehab or detox or another 6 times! 6 Times thats crazy! but the 6th time was a charm, kept me clean 5 years. Well sorry to cry on your shoulder I am a big baby when it comes to withdrawl. DON"T wanna do it! lol But it has to be done. Now is the time. Thanks for letting me vent love to you Badd

[Rex1]

As hippee said to me one time about relapse, it is important to know why you relapse.

Although I haven't technically relapsed, I have been darn close as the folsk here will attest to. I mean I have had Vicodin in my hand!

I guess for me, one thing that is helping is that I know I have another "mental health problem" to solve and I cannot begin to attack that until I am completely clean! And that problem makes this little addiction problem look like a breeze.

At any rate, one thing I have been wondering about lately, and you should consider this:

Are you in hell when you taper - yes!
Are you in hell when you go cold turkey  - yes!
What is the difference in the two hells? - minimal
Which hell last longer? - tapering

So brace yourself because here it comes. If you are going to be hell, be in a shorter hell, not a longer one. I think you may see my point. We all agree that there is a 5 day "hell" period when we are detoxing, but that time comes when you go to zero, wether it be from 5 to zero or one to zero!

So you may as well get on with it. Now, conversely, I must say for me tapering was the easier road. But I have been wondering "how much easier?" A little?

We are here to support you in any way we can. But you MUST decide at some point to stop delaying the countdown and push the launch button. You don't want the mission scrubbed do you?

This is uh...supposed to be...uh...one of those "tough love" speeches - is it coming across that way?

Badd, think about 10 days from now, Wednesday the 15th. Now imagine, that the worst could be over by then!!! What you give for that? Ok, so here's how it worked for me. Say this to yourself:

"Guess what? I get to take drugs for a whole nother week! Just lower the dose one per day. Now I understand that if fail at this, when the 9th comes around, I will be going from 7 per day to zero, instead of 1 per day to zero!" On the 9th, blast off!"

Question: Will this work for you?

Please let us know what your PLAN is, key word being plan. If you share your plan with someone, you will be more likely to stick to it.

God's Grace to you...

Rex

[lisabet]

Wanted to let you know, since you've been "gently" nudging me towards it, that I've decided to taper from 5 to 4 tomorrow. Seems like I've been stuck on 5 forever, even though it's only been a couple of weeks, so this will be a "biggie" for me.  Wish I were tough enough to just go it cold turkey, but I'm too big a coward! I wanted a drink (JD) SO bad tonight, but couldn't really justify going out this late at night and explaining to my son where I was going; plus we're having icy rains.  Finally, the craving passed, although I do admit I took a Librium to take the edge off. I feel so weak all the time - I just want to get off this **** once and for all.  Maybe that's a good sign (I hope) - I'm just getting aggravated with it all. Have a good evening.  Love/Peace, Lisabet

[teeitup]

Progress is progress, keep off the JD and cut back the hydro when you can. It takes everyone a different amount of time to taper, be honest to yourself and you'll make it. Good luck!

teeitup!

[lisabet]

Hey Tee - glad you hear from you.  I'm really gonna try to stay away from the liquor; gonna try to taper to 4 vics tomorrow. How's the golf game?  Thanks for the encouraging words; you're a doll.  Love/Peace, Lisabet

[teeitup]

Golf's okay if would quit raining, been reading your other post to new members. I think your an inspiration to all you respond to. I'm from the town where Janis Joplin grew up so Southern Comfort was my weakness, leave the JD alone and you'll be fine!

teeitup!

[lisabet]

...Take another little piece of my heart, baaaaby!!!  Love Janis - burnt out too soon. Don't worry about me, tee - as long as I don't have the JD in the house, I seldom think about it. I HAVE to tell you, I was feeling a little down the other day, and when I read your post about the "tight-butted walk down the hall" I laughed till I almost cried.  I thought "I can't believe he said that"...but hey, we're anoymonous, right? smile. You're a hoot!  Laughter is so soothing to the soul (even if it's at YOUR expense!)...and better you than me, brother...(I've had simuliar experiences, but I'm NOT  sharing!)..smile.  Hope you're back on the greens soon!  Love ya, Lisabet

[pillhell]

Thanks for posting back to me so quickly.I'd really like to hear how you've gotten as far as you did detoxing off the methadone.But I didn't see your email address posted.Please email me at ***@****,and good luck with the good fight!

                          pillhell

[sharonver]

My email address is ***@****  You can email me anytime you want.  I work on a computer all day at work so I check my emails often.  Right now I am holding at 6mg.  I was suppose to go down to 5mg yesterday but I asked them to hold me for a few weeks until I can find more info on bup. I am hoping that this med will help me get through the remainder of the detox.  

Sharon

[liquidgal]

Hi all :-)

I have been in a miniature hell for the last few days - the transfer to the BUP was rough for me. I am okay today, some sleep last night has made all the difference.

Sharon - I got to 4mg meth once. There is definitely some wisdom in MethMan's advice.

To transfer over to BUP you'll need to be in early w/d. Which for you on your dose will probably be easier to reach than me - but the theory is you'll be suffering by the time the transfer takes place - & from 6 mg you are SO close.

I tranfered from 30 mg. I had my last meth dose 31st & my 1st BUP dose 2nd. The 48hours (esp. the latter 24 hours) wasn't pretty. In fact TBH I was very suprised by how rough I felt so quickly. My doc was so pleased to see my hanging out - I sure wasn't grinning from ear to ear. My 1st BUP dose was 2mg (at 10am). It did SweetFA. My doc most considerately said to come back at 2.30pm for a 2nd dose if I still felt rough - his parting words to me were - "I expect I'll need to see you later".
I went back. The 2nd dose was 4mg & I got some relief. But still NO sleep that night. I was now 'running' on 2 days of zero sleep & that was really messing with me.

I was/am LUCKY that my doc has been so attentive in this transistional period. A friend of mine HAD to increase by 2 mg increments (from 2mg to 8mg) over 4 days irregardless as to how bad he felt (& interestingly enough he coped with this AOK - but I would've been suffering - which does illustrate how different we all are).

So I went to 8 mg on my 2nd dosing day (yesterday) - which is my max. dose (my choice). I got some mild sleepers from my doc who could see how sleep-deprived & aboslutely awful I felt & as I said above finially got some semebelance of sleep last night.
I am going to stay on 8mg until I feel a bit stronger.

My BIG question is now, is how long do I wait to allow some of the meth to get out of my system?

METHMAN - could you *please* tell me what dose you came-off?

It has been really GREAT ro me to read of your success. WAY TO GO!

[help4mysister]

Hi to all and Happy New Year Year!
Just needed to write to hopefully get help for my sister in law.  Any corespondence will be appreciated.
To start my story, my sister-in-law has been using oxycontin for a couple years now, not sure of the actual duration or how much she was really using.  She has a decent job, she works for the state childcare system and her husband is retired military who has a job at the air force base.  They have 2 teen to adult kids.  Her mother also lives with them.
Everyone basically knew but thought that "she has her own life and has it under control.  
Well, the week of Thanksgiving, we got a call that she Overdosed on what they say was Oxycontin and Methadone.  She basically was barely alive. Was in the hospital for a couple days and sent home.  A week later she went out for her birthday one night, and the next morning she acted totally different.  Her brother (my husband) and I went over there Christmas day and she seems like a person who is totally lost (mentally).  Is this any kind of indication of withdrawal?  Can it be that mentally decapitating?  Her mom and husband and kids(that she lives with)  are in a state of denial and in my opinion, are telling the true stories to the doctors with i think is hampering her recovery.  Im sorry to go on and on, just wish i knew how to help my husbands sister.  
Take Care and good luck,
Marion

[MethMan]

Liquidgal,
I was on Methadone for well over 10 years.  They started me at 40mg but it was way too much and "zombified" me.  So, I cut it back to only 15.  Then (as usual) the dose was not enough to hold me and I gradually went up to a max of 55 per day.  For me, at this level, I began to notice that I didn't really care about much at all and my attitude (caring and attentive to others needs) was replaced with not caring and just going through the motions day to day.  So, I told the clinic to drop me down 5mg a day to 40mg.  I stayed at 40mg for 90% of all those years.  Since they tagged me as a "good, stable patient", I only had to go in to the clinic once a month to pick up my "take homes". In August of this past year, I went in to see the councelor and doctor in the clinic and told them that I wanted off this stuff and wanted to slowly taper to zero.  Both disagreed with me saying that I had a "Level Quality of Life" and that I should resign myself to being on this "medicine" for the rest of my life.  That visit took the wind out of my sails until October 1st, 2002.  That is when I went into inpatient rehab which took 40 days.  Once in there, they tapered me 5mg a day down to 20mg.  Then 1mg a day to zero.  At 20mg, they slapped an Ativan patch on me that was replaced every day for 14 days. All the patients reverently referred to this as the "Ativan Shuffle". :)  And that's what it was.  The only hardship I had during this time was keeping my eyes open in the meetings. Once off the patch, I felt a little rough, but not bad at all.  Even when I went down to 5mg, I tried to keep a positive attitude and rise above the situation.  I was successful in doing so all the way to zero.  Then, it hit.  No sleep, fist clenching in the middle of the night, stretches for no apparent reason,et. al.  At this point, I was out of inpatient rehab and back home.  The doc gave me Klonopin and Ambien 10mg for sleep at night along with Clonidine to help keep my blood pressure in check.  For about a week, it was pure hell.  Then, I found the Thomas Recipe and this site chocked full of great people that walked the same road I was on to success. (Thank you bmac and percsnomas!)
So, here I am.  Day 63, no cravings and feeling pretty darn good.  Looking back, the only thing I would have done different would be to find my brother and sister addicts FIRST, then make it happen.  There is a strength in knowing that the addiction has lied to you all this time. You are NOT weird, you are not an outcast, you are not destined to live this life forever and you are NEVER alone in your fight.
Embrace change.  It is change that makes us who we are.

All the best,
Mike

[MethMan]

Hey bud!
Thanks for the kind words.  How's your knees doing today?  Are you getting back up on your feet?

I hear Oregon is putting on the annual "Run for the Greenage" marathon in April.  Wanna train with me?

Rock on brother,
Mike

[Rex1]

Hey bud, where ya been, how ya been?

Rex

[liquidgal]

Thankyou - very much!

It really helps me to read your wonderful success in kicking this drug. You are inspirational! :-)

I was also tagged a good & stable patient (7 years). I was on 75mg for the 1st year - but I then fell pregnant, I slowly dropped to 15 mg (during the pregnancy) & my highest dose since then has been 30mg - which was in the last half of last year as I returned to work & found (or thought I found) that I "needed" that extra boost to work. I have got as low as 4mg - with the hope to come off - but my partner (who is also on MMT) came-off 1st & I needed to stay-on to look after the children. He was off the Meth for 8 months - but then he went back on (long story) :-( .

So, in 40 days you went from 40mg to 0mg? - wow!.

Based on your 1st 10 days on zero being the hardest - do you think that is what it took for the Methadone to leave your system?? (in the most part).

Anyhow thankyou for answering all my questions - I really, really appreciate it.

Oh!? - you found the Thomas recipe helpful? It boosted your energy levels? I am so worried about having to go back to work at the end of this month & hvaing NO energy (my job is very energetic).

Take care & thank YOU again.

[PeaceNick]

Hey girl....
   You know what they say  "opinions are like @ssholes..." Well, you get the point.  You need to follow YOUR heart.  As far as all the advice - eat the hay and throw out the stubble.
I hear all this advice about trading one drug/addiction for another coming from people who are arleady well off the Meth (60 days or more)  It's easy to give that advice when your'e already through it and looking back instead of looking forward. I'm not knocking those folks!  I commend them on their strength of will.  But they are NOT YOU!!!  If you are really sure in your heart that you want to use Bup to do away with your addicvtion to all substances then do it!!!   That isn't trading one adiction (addiction) for another - that's temporarily using one drug to get off of all addicting drugs!  Bottom line - it's up to you to decide.

[oxic]

Yes the Thomas recipe has helped soooo many here, including Bmac and Meth(less)Mike.
I copied it for you:Thomas Detox Recipe

PLEASE NOTE: I am not a doctor, simply a long-time Rx opiate junkie who has had many opportunities to develop a way to detox. This is a recipe for at-home self-detox from opiates based on my experience as well as that of many other addicts. It is not intended as professional medical advice. It is always wise to make sure none of the recipe ingredients or procedures conflict with medications you may be taking. Likewise, if you have any medical condition, disease, allergy or any other health issue, consult your doctor before using the recipe. Thanks, Thomas

This recipe is designed for cold turkey opiate detox. It assumes that you can get about 5 to 7 days away from your job or household responsibilities during which you can sleep, veg and act as miserable as you feel. Opiate WD mimics the symptoms of the common flu, so, if you need a smokescreen, hide behind a bad case of the flu.

If you can't take time off to detox, I recommend you follow a taper regimen using your drug of choice or suitable alternate -- the slower the taper, the better.

For the Recipe, You'll need:

1. Valium (or another benzodiazepine such as Klonopin, Librium, Ativan or Xanax). Of these, Valium and Klonopin are best suited for tapering since they come in tablet form. Librium is also an excellent detox benzo, but comes in capsules, making it hard to taper the dose. Ativan or Xanax should only be used if you can't get one of the others.

2. Imodium (immodium) (over the counter, any drug or grocery store).

3. L-Tyrosine (500 mg caps) from the health food store.

4. Strong wide-spectrum mineral supplement with at least 100% RDA of Zinc, Phosphorus, Copper and Magnesium.

5. Vitamin B6 caps.

6. Access to hot baths or a Jacuzzi (or hot showers if that's all that's available).

How to use the recipe:

Begin your detox with regular doses of Valium (or alternate benzo). Start with a dose high enough to produce sleep. Before you use any benzo, make sure you're aware of how often it can be safely taken. Different benzos have different dosing schedules. Taper your Valium dosage down after each day. The goal is to get through day 4, after which the worst WD symptoms will subside. You shouldn't need the Valium after day 4 or 5.

During detox, hit the hot bath or Jacuzzi as often as you need to for muscle aches. Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hot soaks. Spend the entire time, if necessary, in a hot bath. This simple method will alleviate what is for many the worst opiate WD symptom.

Use the Imodium (immodium) aggressively to stop the runs. Take as much as you need, as often as you need it. Don't take it, however, if you don't need it.

At the end of the fourth day, you should be waking up from the Valium and experiencing the beginnings of the opiate WD malaise. Upon rising (empty stomach), take the L-Tyrosine. Try 2000 mgs, and scale up or down, depending on how you feel. You can take up to 4,000 mgs. Take the L-Tyrosine with B6 to help absorption. Wait about one hour before eating breakfast. The L-Tyrosine will give you a surge of physical and mental energy that will help counteract the malaise. You may continue to take it each morning for as long as it helps. If you find it gives you the "coffee jitters," consider lowering the dosage or discontinuing it altogether. Occasionally, L-Tyrosine can cause the runs. Unlike the runs from opiate WD, however, this effect of L-Tyrosine is mild and normally does not return after the first hour. Lowering the dosage may help.

With breakfast, take the mineral supplement.

As soon as you can force yourself to, get some mild exercise such as walking, cycling, swimming, etc. This will be hard at first, but will make you feel considerably better.

PLEASE NOTE: If you have any medical complications, first check with your doctor before detoxing to verify that this regimen is safe for you.

......Good luck LG.
ps.... MethMike you continue to inspire

Percs No More

[hyjack]

Here again, this thread shows that everyone is totally different.

I transferred directly onto Bup.  I went from 50 mg. to 5mg. in 3 weeks, and went directly onto 8 mg. of bup, spaced out at 2 mg. 4 times per day without any sign of a withdrawal symptom.

And, I've successfully tapered to 4 mg. which was a very easy transition for me.  Lowering one dose every week.

I do think it's an individual thing, since I know of other people who have done the same thing without any problems.

The only difference with me that I can see, is that I was only on meth for one month.  That may be the factor that made the transition so easy for me?

[liquidgal]

Thankyou for copying the Thomas recipe for me! & thank you for your support.

With warmth, Liquid.

[pillhell]

HI ALL,
I WANTED TO POST A NEW QUESTION,BUT OF COURSE ITS FULL FOR THE DAY.I KNOW I SHOULDN'T POST A QUESTION HERE BUT DESPERATE TIMES CALL FOR STUPIDITY.SO HERE GOES.AS I'VE SAID BEFORE IM TAKING 20MG. OF MRTHADONE A DAY.I'VE BEEN TRYING TO TAPER.HERE IS MY PROBLEM:IM TAKING METHADONE IN WAFER FORM,NOT LIQUID.A FAMILY MEMBER GIVES THEM TO ME.SO I CANT SWITCH TO THE LIQUID FORM.HOW DO I TAPER DOWN PAST 10 MG.SINCE THE WAFERS I TAKE ARE 40 MG.10MG. QUATERS.ANY SUGGESTIONS WOULD BE A GREAT HELP.ALSO SOMEONE IN THE FORUM(SORRY I FORGOT THE NAME)GAVE ME A WEB SITE FOR DR.RODRIGUEZ WHO PRACTICES IN BOCA FLORIDA.AND HE WOULD PROBABLY WORK WITH ME WITH THE CHARGE ON HELPING ME DETOX WITH MEDS.ANYWAY HIS NAME WAS NOT AN EMAIL MEMBER.CAN I HAVE HIS FIRST NAME?THERE ARE ALOT OF RODRIGUEZ DOCS. IN BOCA.THANKS.I JUST WANT TO THANK ALL OF YOU (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE)WHO REACHED OUT TO ME(BY EMAIL)AND ARE TRING TO HELP.THIS FORUM IS A GODSENT!

IM NOT A RELIGOUS PERSON AT ALL,BUT MY HEART AND PRAYERS GO OUT TO ALL OF YOU FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT!KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!!!!!PILLHELL

[sharonver]

Good news (I think) for those out there that are looking for doctors to prescribe bup. I went to a website that has a doctor locator for your state and found 20 physicians that supposedly prescribe it and one of them is right in my city!

Pillhell- There are a few right in West Palm Beach!

Anyone interested in more info you can email me.

Sharon

[TommyTwo]

I have been taking 60mg of methadone for over 2 years for pain.
Thru workout treatments the pain has subsuided.  I have been tapering off at the rate of 5mg per week.  When I hit 5 mg I had a little problem but slowed the taper.  I got this schedule from a friend and off the web from someone who was on it for 6 yrs.

[sharonver]

So are you off now? Explain the taper to me from 5mg on. I am on holding at 6mg right now and will be going to 5 soon. I started getting very uncomfortable at 6mg.  so I am holding too hard to go to work etc. Maybe I should do this even slower? Temm me more, please...

Sharon

[TommyTwo]

I do not know what your original dosage was.  I need to know how much you tapered per amount of time. How long were you on it.

I am not a doctor but have access to a Psyc. Tech at a Detox center.  There are other options and drugs you can use.

Please answer this question and I might be able to tell you how to get back to about 70% where you can function, but with some weakness.

[TommyTwo]

Sorry I did not read the first part of this forum.  You can use Darvon to help with the rest of the way.  Remember Methadone stays in your system 72 hrs.  Until your Mu receptor can make its own natural opiates taking more drugs will only put off this process.  Darvon is similar in chemical structure and half life to methadone.  Take both at first then go to the darvon.  You can also switch to codine which is shorter acting.  The use of a benzo with this helps, but only use the benzo for a short time or you will have a benzo problem.  I take alot of vitamins like B100, folic acid, a multi vitamin and plenty of C.  

Sometimes I would increase the dosage for a day or two and then back off where I left off.  This short increase will not bring up your tolarance, but give you some relief.  

There is also a new anti-depressent called remaron(spelling may be off).  It is suppost to help your body produce natural indorphines.

There is a guy in this forum under the title "Worst drugs to get off of".  Look at it he is the 3rd or 4th listing.  He was on 120mg and tapered off 6mg per week.

Most people can handle a 20% cut per week in methadone.  That means at 25 mg you should be able to cut off 5 mg for that week.

Sometimes it is better to taper faster at start and slow at the end.  It trigers you mu receptors to start producing natural opiates faster.

Hope it helps, remember everyone is different and I am no doctor.

[sharonver]

Thanks for the info... I was on 65mg for more than 15 years, went down to 30 at a 5mg decrease when I got to 30 I started on 1mg every other week this was ok until 6mg. So I am holding for awhile on 6mg. I did think of possibly using darvon but not sure if my doctor will prescribe this. Anyways I spoke with a physician who prescribes bup. and I have an app't to see him. But if this doesn't work out then I plan to continue my detox the way I have been going but just a little bit slower, so that is why I was interested in how slow the detox was. All in all I WILL DO THIS!!! I am motivated, and determined.

Sharon

[Whitgrl]

i need adviice im 20 years old in college ive been on methadone for a year in october im only on 50 mg and i havent went ne higher than that...im soo scared to get off of it and im starting my detox my year clean in oct. i want to get off of methadone and i know withdrawl from it is horrible how should i go down onmy dose how slow how fast, is their ne other methods to make it easier is there ne thing i can do im so scared buti dont want to be bound to this **** ne longer

[Vintendo]

I found this site sort of by accident, then became enthralled with Sharon's journey.  I found a LOT of great information and support, but the last post I saw/could find was 4 years ago.

I noticed most of the Subutex Suboxone conversation was dated about 5-6 years ago, and since then it has become easier to get and the detoxes have gotten much better. I had a friend who just went through a 7-day detox from heroin using buprenorphine & clonopin and he reported NO withdrawals (except a restlessness after it was over)

I was just wondering if anyone has heard from or about Sharon, I pray she made it clean or at the very least hasn't given up.  If you've heard from or about her please let me know.

[777hope]

oh man every thing feel apart today , 5 years of taking dome and the dr said no more becaue the RX got miss placed not the pills just the papper well after they said sorry we can not see you any more . we thought oh man got to find them found them ! and think oh thank god every thing is ok . take it back to him and he tears it up and says i think you were trying to get one over on me . never have i ever had anything like this happen in 5 years and he just says forget you . i have one mouth of med, at 30 mg a day because i droped one of the 2 RX off befor going to him so i was able to get that so i have somthing to wing down on . any help on this would be much help. damn i am scared been on this too long but i think i am rdy to get clean would be so nice to not have that goast following me .