I have been reading the posts on here for a couple of weeks, you are all very informative, I hope someone can help with this question.
My daughter is now 23, she was in a serious car accident 2 years ago, extensive injuries, but doing much better now. She has a standing script for percocet due to a neck injury. I have recently found out that she is now snorting it. I understand addiction as I come from a very addictive family, and I guess maybe she is not getting the high or "relief" that she once was from taking them orally............... " she says that yes, she has to preserve what she has and snorting them makes them last longer". believe me I am no dummy, been down that road before with people. She does not run out early, but snorting is new to her. I have no reason to doubt this as she does not lie and when I found the traces a few weeks ago, she admitted it. I am trying to set up a meeting with her doctor of pain management to discuss this, which right now she is willing to do..................... But we all know the HIPPA laws, this needs to come from her.
My question is this.................... Does snorting a little piece (as she claims) give you the same effect as taking a pill. Is it worse than snorting cocaine? Apparently cocaine has no physical W/D symptoms as I have read so much
on the web, only mental.................... could have fooled me been down that road.
If someone out there could give me a little advice it would be so appreciated.
hi and welcome to the forum. i am former snorter and when you snort it it immediately hit you. no wait, but i did find it wore of much quicker than taking the pill. coke and pills give totally different highs so you really cant compare it. good luck to you and your daughter.
Hi. I have also snorted percs in the past. I agree that it hits immediately and it gave me more of a high, but yes it does wear off much quicker. It is not intended to be snorted and it seems like addictive behavior. if what she has been given is not helping her you should definitely try to get her to talk to the doc. All my best to you and your daughter.
Thanks and that is what I thought, the effects don't last as long, as taking the pills, just as cocaine it is instant gratification that wears off quick. So why??????? Believe me she has a script for enough to last most people a life time.................. why snort then????
I know tolerance grows over time and what one pill would do to someone 6 months ago may take 9 now..........................
My honest opinion - she is snorting them because she likes the instant- ultra- high she is getting from snorting them. Sorry. Its good you have an open relationship with her --keep trying to talk to her. I truly wish you nothing but luck.
Yes I agree it is definitely addictive behavior,,,,,,,,,,,, Not according to her though.........
I am trying to get this done, just need more info.
Getting off this stuff is the hardest %&*^%b in the world believe me I know and I hate that Junkie mechanism that everyone has, who does not have a clue refers too........
Most people are accidental addicts when it comes to Pain Meds........ Hey makes you feel great for a while doesn't it when it is initially prescribed????????? But then it happens before you even realize it.
Absolutely, yes like I said been there done that, but her family has a huge history of addictive behavior, maybe I have beat it maybe not it is day to day, every day, i am young as well. I just know all too well what happens when you reach that point and I am afraid for her.
Obviously it will be tough, but we are in if she is. Funny thing is nobody who knows me would ever guess that, and according to them "it is just so foreign to them"....... I don't think so at all, I think most people are just not honest "in the REAL world", the same people who go home at night and drink 2 bottles of wine that don't have a problem..... but someone that looks like me, could never have an addiction problem, unless it was the ever popular "booze" socially acceptable............. blah blah.
We all have our demons..... one is not worse than the other when it comes to addiction. I just worry about my girl who may not be there yet and what I can actually do short of chaining her to the bed (joking) to stop this now.
She lives in our home, WE love her yet have no rights. She will talk to me and be honest sure............................ but it is a lot harder than that to stop. As I am sure everyone here knows.
Snorting medicine that is to be taking orally is abusing the meds. Whats funny is my story starts out the same as your daughters. Bad accident. 50+mph rear end accident and my neck get messed up. Its a crappy dead end road with drugs regardless of the pain.
You don't become a addict over night. Nor do you become diabetic over night. Its a gradual movement that once you have had enough, your done for.
Just by her sniffing them gives you more then clear evidence really that shes after the high.
On another note, Percocet is not meant to be snorted (*no pain meds are meant to be snorted but there are ones that are fine to sniff because they are pure*) . Your noes, luges, and smell sense will get so messed up from tylenol alone its ridiculous. Not to mention all the binders, Tylenol and other stuff your snorting directly into your lunges and noes. You cant even begin to imagine the damage that stuff does to your respiratory system.
All my love and good luck on getting your daughter back.
When I was using opiates for pain. When I was withdrawaling the pain I had in my neck was so terrible that I wanted to shoot myself. The funny thing is now 30 days clean of no opiates and I have very little pain in my neck compared to when I was using them everyday. My pain levels when I was on opiates was 6-8 constantly all day everyday, my pain meds would maybe take 1-2 points if that and soon as it wore off I would be back to the same if not in more pain.
My point with this I have come to the conclusion that my brain was so addicted to this stuff and I would only use it for pain, that my brain made me feel worse then I was actually feeling just so I could more meds. My doc says that this is not uncommon and had seen it before, but is not usually brought out until you see a psychologist. He said that its a good rule to stick by that if your pain is more intensified after the medicine wears off (if you have not been doing hard labor) you got a good idea that its probably med dependency\addiction, but not in all cases.
Just letting you know what I went through, I wasted 3 years of my life I can never get back using these meds and dealing with pain that was made by my brain
I have also, heard, what you said about pain being worse when taking the narcotics, not sure if it psychological or physical, I have read that it does something to certain pain receptors............. something like that.
Don't know............ but i am really going to pin her down in the am and have her call her doctor, she says now that she is willing to give permission (this morning) to allow me to go and talk with him and help. That was then (trying to get out of the house today) and this is now so we will see.
Also funny how her friends have gradually changed lately, still has the good ones, but some new, shall we say different ones as well. Way too obvious!
This was some great advice from folks who have 'been there - done that' and I hope the encouraging words help. I only had one thing to add ---- you mentioned talking to her doctors ------ this is a very good idea. They do need to know 'everything'. Many of us on this site came to the conclusion that there are many other remedies for chronic pain other than opiates. The longer one is on them, the less effective they become thus requiring more and more --- then they begin to cause major problems both physically and emotionally. It sound like she has a good support system should she decide that she needs to come off of the pills. Talking with the doctors should be the first step. All the best.
Snorting percs is not a very efficient way of getting a narcotic into your system. You end up snorting a ton of tylenol and only a little dope. The habit of snorting is also an addiction and there have been some people here who wanted to detox and went on sub and snorted that. Not good.
Thank you for all your advice, we talked this morning and she claimed she has only recently started snorting them. She still takes them orally as well, she said she started because one of her "new" friends who obviously likes to get high, turned her on to that. Sharing her pain pills is also a problem but what do you do when "friends" who like them know you have them.................. Just say no? LOL I get all that, it is tough.
On another note she did call her doctor's office this morning and asked for an appointment, she said she wanted me present, the earliest we could get was Thursday. So we will see how it goes, she said she WILL tell the doctor what she has been doing. I am concerned that she may be telling me what I want to hear at this point though and may change her mind by Thursday.
Seems like you pretty much knew this one without even asking!!! I think I missed my daughters by a long shot.. And being an addict, I never thought I would miss it...But i have realize this after thinking about your post..That when i was using, i was too busy worried about running out, or getting some, that is the reason i missed it !! SICK..now looking back i should not have...SO when I was using and thinking i was "super mom" really was not doing my job well...Well thank god she is clean now...
Keep us posted, and i hope things go well for you and her...
Thanks and you are right I pretty much did know some of the answers without having to ask, but it was the whole snorting thing that I was unsure of, because I have been counting her pills and I know she never runs out early, she is prescribed 180 a month and usually has some left over. So I have been watching for any signs of abuse for quite some time and except for the latest greatest have not found any. Also I crushed one the other day and that is a LOT of junk to snort! She says she only does it in small pieces, I can't imagine that someone could snort a whole one, but I am sure it can be done.
Let me say this DO not be so hard on yourself! I could write a book on stuff that I have "missed" in her life. No one is perfect, I think we as mothers all start out thinking we will be the best mother and have the best kids and everything will be perfect, but life gets in the way, working high pressure jobs, trying to be the best wife, mother, friend what ever........ That list is endless. Nobody can be 100% perfect and on top of everything all the time.
In my other post I had said I am or (was) a young mother, I turned 40 in May she turned 23 in June. Also I have a very addictive family background as well as her Dad's side, About 10 years ago I had a very bad dependency on Benzo's initially prescribed for stress. I got all my stock brokers licenses on them, thought I was doing just great had no clue what so ever that I had a problem or what these tiny pills could do, my doctor never said anything never flinched when I would tell him I needed more that they were not working any more, just kept uping the dosage. I felt great, but when I think back on it seriously I think they only one I really was not fooling was myself. I was eating them like candy, and getting off of those things is something I would never ever wish on anyone! As far as Opiates go......... I know only too well the feeling of having surgery or a broken bone and being in complete Agony, but POP 2 of those and you are scrubbing the kitchen floor and feel like there is nothing you can not do. That could have been easily me as well, but something inside (thank god) told me it was not right to feel like that and it would be too easy to keep going and like it! So fortunately as easy as they were to get, I didn't.
My whole point is this you can not blame yourself or judge yourself for your daughter's addiction, she is clean now and that is HUGE! You have absolutely NO way of knowing if you were not using, that anything for her would have been any different!
This is why I hate these pills, this disease, all of it, this is why I am so cautious with her. I hate the fact that she has to take these. She does have real pain and it can be very bad at times I have tried my best to explain all of this to her right from the beginning. Also Thursday I am hoping to talk to the doctor about some other form of pain management being a type 1 diabetic, her kidney and liver functions are always at risk to begin with. The whole thing blows! She is an "adult" now so it is really up to her all I can do is hope she means what she says, and gets it.
It not good that she snorts percs. Being hooked on them is bad and snorting them shows another level of dependence. This doesn't even make sense but addicts do it with percs and vics and even smoke them. They don't get as much narcotic in their system but the ritual of snorting is a tough one to over come. I used to snort heroin and other narcotics like dilaudid and can relate. I wish you all the best.
I have a 25 year old daughter, breast cancer survivor whom i found out today from her friend that is snorting oxycodone, up to 9 a day. Not sure what to do about it. She doesn't live in my home and denys taking anything when I ask her if she has taken something to make her loopy.She recently broke up with her fience and is renting a home from us with a friend. She is a LPN and has a good job, keeps getting perscriptions from her Dr. complaining of arthritis pain in her hands from the Chemo treatments. She has been through alot over the past 4 years, but enough is enough. She is cancer free now and there is no reason for this other than an addiction.
I have been wanting to give everyone and update on my daughter and her "doctor's" appointment. We went she was honest told the doctor she snorted a "few lines with a friend" (the friends idea). Said she didn't really like it, has not done it since I found out and did not plan to do it again.
He asked her if she was saying this because I was with her or was it the truth? She told him it was the truth. He asked her and I if there were any more signs of abuse ie: running out early and she said no.... She never runs out early (which is true).
THEN he looked at me and said she was experimenting and to some degree that was "normal" swear to god. (Okay maybe for a 16 year old experimenting is normal) not when you are 23. But since she was admitting to it and no other signs of abuse he was confident she would be okay and should continue on the same dosage or on a prn basis. I think he saw my jaw literally hit the floor........................ Then he said "But obviously Mom is concerned so maybe if you "agree" Mom could hold your pills for a while, and make sure you are taking them correctly". She agreed. Okay I am no medical professional but I was beyond pissed, I am really not sure that is the reaction a Dr. should of had when a patient came in and admitted to snorting (abusing) pain pills.
Anyway we did that it worked..... skip forward a week she had a fight with the friend and they were no longer friends anymore (wonder why), I am still holding the pills and she is doing fine and I was just thinking the other day okay I will let the situation go back to where it was because she was doing so well.
Guess who was in my kitchen when I came home from work going through my kitchen cabinets, while my daughter was in the shower............ yup you guessed it the "ex-friend". I lost it, threw her *** out and now my daughter is pissed. She was looking for something to eat she said, yeah she was not even close to anywhere near where the food is kept and she was in the cabinet my daughter used to keep her bottle in. I am so mad I could scream my daughter is too, at me, because the friend called her and begged her for a ride to work because her car broke down and no one else could do it. So my daughter picked her up because she felt bad and she had to shower first. (yeah right............ I am so sure chickydoo saw her golden opportunity right there. You should have seen the look on her face when I walked in.
Sorry to be so long winded guess I just needed to vent. I feel bad for the friend because she has an addiction but I am not letting her take my daughter down with her. And there was no point to calling the cops (prove that is what she was doing) so I tossed her literally by her turtle neck and she is no light weight either I swear I could of killed her, I believe she knew that too.
So now my daughter is friends with her, not speaking to me and I am sitting here ready to blow! Pills are still here though!
Again sorry to vent but if the doctor's reaction was not bad enough.... now this!
sorry i just feel compelled to tell you this.i have watched many, many of my friends start out by snorting pain pills (percs even vikes)then there snorting oxy's, smoking oxy's.oxy=oxy cottin.then they move up to the coke,meth,heroin.in my opinion you are doing a great job, stay on her, i mean stay on her this does show as other people have said addictive behavior looking for the high.i have just saw so many of my friends start out this way and i pray you can nip it in the bud now because i fear the drug esculation may happen if you cant and it will be so much harder to quit if it goes further.i wish you and your daughter the best.
You are totally together and doing the right thing, mom. No easy answers here. Your Doc doesnt sound like he is keyed in well enough at all. And it certainly doesnt sound like its your fault. Really is frustrating. I know. Nothing like seeking professional help and having them tell you, "She is just experimenting" ..... makes you wonder how many suicide attempts it would take to get his attention....best of luck to you.....maybe you could point out that her :"friends" are not setting the world on fire with their lifestyles.....and that you want better for her.....if she examines the friends honestly she should realize some of this..........................best of luck to you.....you deserve it......
There's going to be alot of people scoff at this but I have really bad back injuries and was prescribed oxycontin. I took those for about a 4-5 months and just started abusing them. I wasn't snorting them just taking more then I should and I finally decided to get off of them. I went to the doctor and he prescribed percocets. Percocet's were the big problem for me I went crazy with the things and abused the hell out of them. At the end I was snorting maybe 12 pills a day easy probably should be dead. I had more surgery's on my back and got to a point where I really didn't need any pills but still had a huge percocet addiction to deal with so I went back to the doctor and he gave me a small 15 pill prescription for hydrocodone. I started snorting the hydrocodone's being the idiot I am, the great thing was I didn't notice the withdrawals from the percocets. I snorted 4 hydro's one day 3 the next day 3 the day after and finally realized I didn't need to anymore . I was over the percocets and didn't take the hydro's long enough to get addicted so was opiate free. I don't know if this is standard practise but it worked very very well for me I had no withdrawals at all that I noticed and have no desire to take anymore pills.
It does sound crazy to me but I am no expert believe me. But if you have a massive addiction to Opiates to begin with and you are snorting one Opiate to replace the other, (because you stated that you didn't notice the percocet withdrawal~due to snorting the Vicodin) would it matter that you were not actually taking the Vicodin long enough to be addicted to them? Aren't they all in the same family Opiates? Isn't one just replacing the other, and if you did that kind of taper in 3 days would you not still feel withdrawal symptoms? I have no idea, but if that worked for you that is great. Forgive me, because when it comes to the whole (snorting abusing thing I am still confused......... I know it is bad and an instant gratification thing .....high.....). Is that why maybe? Because you were snorting them that it didn't stay in your bloodstream they way it would if you were constantly swallowing them? It doesn't make sense to me, but if it worked that is all that matters. How long have you been opiate free? And also, you have no more pain at all? No cravings, no nothing? Maybe the snorting thing was more of a mental thing for you than a physical addiction, if that is even possible I don't know. And yes, snorting 12 pills a day is crazy, because as I mentioned I was so freaked out when she admitted it I actually crushed one of the pills and that to me looked like a whole lot to be putting up your nose, I can not even imagine 12 a day, you most definitely are lucky to be alive.
Theeagle~ Can I just say Thank you! Because that is exactly how I felt when we left there, I was shocked by his reaction to the whole situation. he is supposed to be an expert in pain management....... and to some degree that is normal????????? I am still B.S. over that one. But fortunately my daughter does seem to care enough about herself to go a long with it and be so forthcoming. And the whole friend drama nonsense... blah, blah, blah came to a head from what I was told. They are supposedly no longer friends and when my daughter left that night, after she was mad, they had an argument because she offered her 400.00 for the rest of her bottle. She told her to take a flying one, and told me she now realized that she was probably using her the whole time for pills. Ya think. Fingers crossed hopefully she is done with her. On another note one of her doctor's at The Joslin Clinic suggested maybe switching to Tramadol, because it is non narcotic. But after reading what I have read on here, that doesn't seem to be the best route either.
Our goal here is to do pain management with a therapist and maybe through exercise and some pain therapy or coping skills she maybe able to eventually come off. She joined my gym 2 weeks ago and has been going 4 days a week and she says it might be helping, so that is a positive.
Kane~ That is my absolute worst fear................................ And I pray to God that never happens. That is why I am sitting on her and have been "overly cautious" and always checking her pills since day 1. Because I know how easily that can happen with these pills. I love people that call pot the gateway drug................. sure!
Continued best of everything to you and to the daughter. It is a nasty situation. But you are handling it well. No easy answers, but you know that. Your daughter is one lucky lady. So glad that you didnt just throw her to the wolves - or to the Doctor! It sounds like the wolves are finding her all by themselves. Really a blessing in disguise that you found the friend pillaging for pills. Glad that you had already done your thing and she struck out. How many times do you think she was successful before you got in the picture? Keep up what you are doing. Stick with us here and keep posting with questions and for support. And to keep us up to date. Would the daughter be interested in checking out the various posts? Maybe you could pull up a select few posts that interest you and you could show them to her...........best of luck once again....but I believe that you know that it is more than luck coming into play here...............................eagle
I think you misunderstood, I posing that question to Wasoo about going from one opiate to another snorting and then just being able to stop with no withdrawals.
If you read my other posts you will see what my actual issue with her is and yes she did admit to snorting and I have been watching her. I have to tell you it is pretty hard, she is 23 but I have been holding her pills for close to a month and so far so good. I just hope it stays that way.
Also Eagle, funny you should say show her a posts on here I did. It was from a person who was snorting percocet and cocaine and had burnt a hole through the cartiliage in their nose and after months of not using it still hadn't healed and all the problems the person was having, she was a little freaked to say the least. No guarantee though but so far so good, I can only hope it continues.
As far as her friend goes, and how many times she was successful before I caught her, I asked my daughter that same question that very night. No kidding huh. the thing is obviously this girl has a problem too (friend) I do feel sympathetic to her. I even e-mailed her some out-patient detox places for this area. I am sure that made her really happy, but I do not know what else to do. She is 25 and her parents are not around and I really don't what kind of support system she has, but for right now I can't help her!
You do need to concentrate on daughter right now. Cant save everyone in the world. Too bad. Your daughter needs you and sounds like she has you. Stay with education and you should do fine. Give her a strong chance - and realize that most of us actually relapsed a time or so when we started. But we immediately picked ourselves up and continued on. It sounds like you have done all you can for the friend - - and might I say much more than the average person would have done. Maybe yor daughter will be intrigued by exposure to this forum and she will have contact with people in all stages recovery from this stuff.......best of luck to you - - and you stick to reading and posting also - - - a breath of fresh air!!
scared i never said anything about marijuana or it being a gateway drug.i did say that along with snorting pills, people also smoke them especially oxy-contin.i apologize if you were offended by my post about esculation.i just personally know as a pill head myself that taking the step from popping pills orally to snorting them is a big one towards esculation.it is great you are such a caring mother and sounds like you're doing an excellent job.sorry if you think ima jackass.
I am hardly a drug expert and I wouldn't dare comment on the chemistry of the pills but to my understanding they're similar but different, although I was completely aware of the tylenol and the damage it could have caused I just didn't care at the time because of all the pain. The oxycontin was a 5 month problem and the percocets were 10-11 months. I related taking the hydrocodone to something like heroin addicts taking methadone, it masked the withdrawals of the oxycodone but I don't know if that's a fair comparaison. I'm still in a moderate amount of pain but not enough to justify killing myself with percocets anymore. I've been opiate free for 2 months, I don't know if I physically or just mentally weened myself off the pills I just know it worked, maybe someone else with a better knowledge about it can clear that up. The cravings are pretty serious and I'm still having alot of problems with them. The physical side of addiction is the easy part it's that mental side that always ropes people back in.
I am telling you I completely understand what you are saying which is why when I found the traces I freaked.
My comment about Pot being called a gateway drug was not directed at you. What I meant and what annoys me is, okay along with my other job my husband and I own a bar. It is a unique bar and it's purpose is many things besides booze. I strongly believe that alcohol is A LOT worse and does a lot more damage to a person. I have never seen a bunch of stoner's sitting around and getting into fights (mixing the 2 is different), and looking for coke. I have been at the bar with people who walk in the door completely gross, falling down drunk, men and women, refuse to serve them...... most of the time they don't get it. People are more likely to try to score cocaine or pills while drunk. I see it all the time. Plus the ego's and things happen, they don't even remember doing, the next day.
All I am saying about my disdain for that statement is this alcohol is 100 times worse than pot, pills are 100 times worse. I believe that when kids (or adults) walk into the ER (and it happens where I live all the time) for some lame *** soft tissue or even a real problem and they are handed a script for vic's or perc's like they are m&m's, that is where the cycle starts, that is the gateway and these pills are so easy to get. Which your post completely describes the cycle of how a person with an addictive behavior falls.
Do I think smoking pot is a great idea, no but I think it is a hell of a lot better than stuff that is called legal. I will tell you this and a lot of people are going to disagree with this, but it is what it is. When my daughter started experimenting with drinking in her late teens (knowing the damage that it was/could be doing to her body already being a type 1 insulin dependent diabetic)............ I asked her why when her friends were drinking why she could not just smoke pot instead, if she had to do something. Knowing that, it was just the way it was and flipping out and making a huge deal out of it would only make it worse. She was smoking anyways, I know terrible mother, but guess what she doesn't drink or have a drinking problem. She may have a drink at a social occasion, nor is she a pot head. I am not sure but from personal experience only, it is not such a physically addictive thing as a mental thing. I don't see pot leading to all these other things........... Just my opinion though.
I've had 2 back surgeries, and have been given some pretty strong meds, but have never snorted or injected anything. What worries me is that she'll eventually turn to something else (illegal) when snorting the Percs is no longer enough. I know of folks who have done this. Good luck to you and your daughter.
I'm dancing on eggshells, please help!! I am a disabled vet and take pain meds for sever back and leg pain. My husband has similar problems but I am afraid he has a problem with his meds. Is there a group for family members of addicts and how do you handle being a spouse of an addict? He does need the pills to do his job but cannot get help because he is a service member. This is sad but due to multiple injuries there is no way around the meds. I just don't know what to do anymore??? Please help!!!
You have not received help as you have posted on an old thread. Please go to the top of this page..click on the orange post a question and copy and paste this note. That way you will start your own new thread and others will see it and help!!!!! Please do this, I promise it will make a difference.
I dont mean to upset you by no means but I am a recovering addict who use to abuse percocet the same way. It started with doing a little "one time" to taking twenty a day. My daily routine revolved solely around finding as many as I could. I never stole from anyone to get my high but know those who did. The phrase "you know how to tell when a junkie is lying, her lips are moving" did apply to me. I told family and friends I wasn't addicted and could quit anytime while spiraling further and further out of control. I don't mean to alarm you but the wd was awful and the sooner you are able to confront this addiction, and believe me that's what it is, the better off she'll be. Good luck to you and your daughter.
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