started a suboxone program yesterday! so excited for FREEDOM!

Wow
this is the second day I've gone without pain killers (was taking 30 10/325's a day for the last year solid) and I'm so relieved!  It's come to a point where I'm so full of shame I never thought I'd find any relief.  I finally got to a sub dr, finally told a doctor the TRUTH and finally got that prescription.  I'm on 1 8mg a day and I can't believe I don't have to wake up and hunt for pills.  The last two days have been so relaxing without having to run everrywhere finding money and pills that i've been crying like a baby.
I'm so grateful there's something like this out there.
How long will I need to be on it?  Who knows - but I've tried everything possible by myself and this was my last hope and so far so good:)
~~Love~~

[leeisgettingclean]

   Just try not to stay on the sub very long. Did you try all other methods first? How long were you takin pain pills and how many mgs per day? Not that it really matters now that you already started the sub, just remember that with every PRO comes a CON! The sub is not the "MAJIC" pill and should ONLY be a PART of the sulotion!  You should ALREADY be considering how long you are to stay on the sub. Remember that the doctors make money off your sub usage, they are NOT going to be in any hurry for you to get OFF the sub, THIS IS YOUR RESPONSIBILTY!!!
  Sub is a lot stronger than the pain pills. Sub can be a tool in recovery if used for a short period of time, but long term use is going to cause an addiction to the sub. You must also remember that sub is doing nothing for your w/ds, it is simple replacing your DOC for one that is more socially accepted, I am not knocking sub but you ahve to remember that YOU WILL w/d from the sub, only at a later date.
  It is good that you are making the decision to clean up your life, its good that you are ready to break free of addiction, just remember it comes at a cost. W/ds are a critical part of getting clean. There is NO way around w/ds. W/ds can be put off, they can be lessened, but they can NOT be AVOIDED. You need to prepare for the sub w/ds and now what you are going to do to stay clean after the sub.
  Are you doing aftercare? Aftercare is an important part of recovery. Please dont just take the sub and do nothing else. Use this time while on the sub to educate yourself about addiction, about w/ds, and know the things you can do to help you when you w/d from the sub. Use this time to connect to other addicts, to form a support group, to make the best out of you situation. Sub brings NASTY w/ds so just be prepared for them so that you will have the knowledge to beat them.
Again I am not knocking sub, infact I have never tryed sub, I am a pain pill addict and IMO sub should be used for herion and hardcore oxy//morfen addiction, however now that you have chosen it for yourself just be sure you understand it.  Good luck, Lee

[shrimpman]

I agree with Leeisgettingclean the subs only are a substitution and I got some thinking that  they were going to keep me from w/ds-----nope-----I took 2mgs for 5 days and quit----3 days later the w/ds started------Had to go back to percocet to cope-------then I did a lot of research on the best way to quit-------I used the Thomas recipe and it made it bearable -------- have been clean for 5 days and only feel tired-----This will get better each day-------hang in there and get your life back-------Best regards, Shrimpman

[GA Guy]

I keep hearing the objection to long term Sub usage because of the doctors making more money by keeping you on it. This could be farther from the truth. First of all, Sub doctors have waiting lists for patients. Since there is a limit on the number of Sub patients that each doctor can treat, people usually have to wait to get on his/her service. Secondly, Suboxone doctor's make more money through first consultation/intake than through continuing appointments. So, they would be better serviced monetarily by a higher turnover ratio..ie, quick detox treatments. Suboxone doctor appointments seem higher in most cases because insurance doesn't pay in many of the cases. Therefore the money for the drug and appointments come from the patients pocket. This isn't to say that there aren't shady Suboxone doctors taking advantage of vulnerable drug addicts. There are. But, the ultimate decision of the length of time to be on Suboxone should be left to the doctor and patient. The key to long term sobriety is to realize that the addiction is merely in remission during Sub usage. If you don't get treatment for the underlying addiction, it will merely resurface after Suboxone cessation. That's why aftercare, or "during"-care is important while on Suboxone maintenance.

[GA Guy]

Also, I think it's dangerous to think of Suboxone as only feasible for addictions to what many people perceive as mainstream "hardcore" drugs like heroin, Oxy, or Fentanyl/Dilaudud. The main consideration should be the level of opiates taken. I've seen people say that Sub should never be used for hydrocodone addiction. Well, I've seen people taking well over 300-400mg of hydro a day. This is no small habit regardless of the drug involved. I agree that Suboxone is used much to often for small habits, but it shouldn't be categorized to certain drugs only. Lee, I know it seems like I'm just picking on ya bud..but, I'm just debating some stuff here. I used Sub and did things all wrong when I used it. Since that time, I've learned to see Sub in an entirely different light. I always love debating different treatment methods..because even though we're all addicts..we all need different treatment options.

[leeisgettingclean]

You are right about what you said, thats why my post was 99% about getting off the sub when you can and only 1% about money. I do not feel that the metion of money is doing anyone good when conversating about recovery. few people are strong enough to quit drugs only over money, usually it takes more than the money to convince one to quit. Its a fact that money is made by doctors prescribing sub, which visit do they make the most money...first, fifth, or tenth I dont know and not really in any hurry to find out. I agree with you that while on sub your addiction is only in remission, and I also feel that sub has its place in recovery.

[leeisgettingclean]

picking on me?? No i dont see it like that, its a forum and would be kinda dry without opintions. You are right that level of usage is without question a concern when considering sub!

[SuzzQ]

Hi, I was wanting to get off norcos.. too many per day... I went to this doctor and he wanted very badly to put me on sub.... I said I didn't trust doctors anymore and that I wanted to do research on sub.... So I did.. If taken too long the withdrawals I have read are pretty bad... to say the least.. I would rather withdraw from the norcos.... I have been on a tapering schedule... I was taking sometimes over 8 pills a day... not even counting.. one after the other sometimes.. Finally I decided to quit them.. after all the pain and misery.. I am now down to just over 1 norco a day... I told them NO , I would not take the suboxne... I did it myself.. It wasn't all that bad... have a little way to go.. but, I am feeling so much better.... I found that sub is very expensive and the doctor gets a cut of that money ...  I don't know what to tell you to do , since you already started taking the sub.. Maybe there will be someone who has taken it on here who can help you.. Still, Congratulations on your determination... that's what gets us to stop.. My best to you.. You are on your way...

[GA Guy]

Please explain "sub is very expensive and the doctor gets a cut of that money".

[GA Guy]

I just want to point out that Doctors do not get kickbacks for prescribing Suboxone. First of all, until recently there wasnt even a generic for Suboxone, so there isn't another drug in it's class to be given preference over. Secondly, taking financial incentives for prescribing Suboxone is illegal.

[leeisgettingclean]

BOSTON (FOX25, myfoxboston) -  

In the destructive world of opiate addiction, heroin and OxyContin usually steal the headlines, but that may be changing thanks to a new prescription drug – Suboxone, FOX Undercover’s Mike Beaudet reports.



Like heroin and OxyContin, Suboxone is part of the opiate family of drugs, but unlike unlike its notorious cousins it's supposed to help addicts stop taking opiates. But according to former addicts and some doctors, Suboxone is now living a double life as a drug of addiction, sold more and more on the street by drug dealers.

Suboxone is also good news for some doctors who are making large cash profits selling prescriptions for Suboxone to just about anybody who wants it.

Jennifer Ulich was a heroin addict who started buying Suboxone off the street to try and get clean. Unless she straightened up, she was going to jail for at least two years.

“I was buying Suboxone off the street, trying to de-tox myself,” she said. “I would take all of the Suboxone at once and get high off of it.”

The Rockland woman said there was a “huge” black market for Suboxone.

“From all the OxyContin and all the heroin dealers that I knew, they all started dealing Suboxone,” she said.

To avoid more trouble with the law, Ulich went to her doctor for a legal Suboxone prescription. But that didn't work out as planned, either.

“He said he was going to prescribe me two milligrams a day and I was like, no no no, that's not enough. So I talked him into prescribing me 24 miligrams a day,” she said. “Because I was way over-prescribed Suboxone, I was getting high off it. Legally.”

Ulich finally got off opiates completely and has been clean now for 15 months. She questions how useful Suboxone is for addicts really trying to change their lives. One specialist says the drug can easily be misused.

“It's a very good drug, there's no two words about it, a very effective drug. It takes away the withdrawal symptoms pretty quickly,” said Dr. Punyamurtula Kishore. “But, like with any narcotic it's also highly addictive.”

Dr. Kishore specializes in addiction treatment and is certified by the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration to prescribe Suboxone in nine clinics across the state. Unlike methadone, Suboxone is designed to be given out by prescription and used by patients at home.

But Dr. Kishore refuses to do that. Instead, he only administers the drug in an inpatient setting. He says it’s important to use other forms of therapy to avoid just swapping one opiate addiction for another.

“Counseling, therapy, looking at why they got addicted in the first place,” he said. “I prefer that method. It's safer.”

Many doctors apparently don't share Dr. Kishore’s concerns. Former opiate addicts we talked to say its easy to get a prescription for Suboxone with no strings attached, no counseling required.

To find out just how easy, our producer, Jonathan Wells, went to see one of the 296 doctors in Massachusetts certified by the government to prescribe Suboxone. Wells arrived without an appointment at a doctor's office west of Boston and said he had a problem with opiates and was looking for a prescription for Suboxone.

He was given a urine test which showed he had no opiates in his system. Despite that, after a 30-minute meeting with the doctor and a 300 dollar cash payment, he was able to walk out with a prescription for Suboxone.

That experience is not unusual, according to former OxyContin addict Candido Delgado, who was prescribed Suboxone by a doctor and stayed on it for a year and a half.

“I was in two minutes and out,” Delgado said. “I would go there he would just ask me how I was doing, I'd tell him I was doing fine. I'd tell him I had to go to work, we make it quick, and I'd be gone.”

Delgado said it's easy to get a prescription for more Suboxone than you need and then sell the extra pills on the street for a healthy profit. He recommended his doctor to several other patients, who he said in turn sold the drugs.

“I just told them what to say to him. They end up going to him too,” he said.”

Drug dealers are not the only ones profiting. Dr. Kishore estimates doctors can make as much as $500,000-a-year on Suboxone precriptions alone if they accept cash only and see many patients a day. It’s called “cash and carry,” and Kishore says it’s not in the best interest of the patient.

“It’s a term people are using on the street for physicians who take money and just write a prescription without any further treatment being recommended,” he said.

The maker of Suboxone, British company Rekitt Benckiser, would not tell us how much Suboxone it sells in the U.S. or how much those sales have increased in recent years. A company spokeswoman did say Suboxone has now been used in the treatment of more than one million opiate addicts.

In a statement, the company says Suboxone is less addictive than other more powerful opiates and effectively reduces the severity of opiate withdrawal.

That statement also says "opioid dependence is a chronic and relapsing

brain disease that, by its very nature, leaves patients vulnerable to the ongoing possibility of opioid abuse. Given this aspect of the disease, the company is aware that a certain level of Suboxone diversion and abuse exists in the U.S.”

[leeisgettingclean]

'Drug dealers are not the only ones profiting. Dr. Kishore estimates doctors can make as much as $500,000-a-year on Suboxone precriptions alone if they accept cash only and see many patients a day. It’s called “cash and carry,” and Kishore says it’s not in the best interest of the patient. '
.....thats making money if you ask me

[leeisgettingclean]

However, I posted that only for info, I AM NOT SAYING I DESAGREE THAT SUB CAN BE USEFULL!!!!

[Frivolousz21]

I have only been clean from hydro now for 9 days.

I was taking anywhere from a min of 100 mg per day to 200 mg and sometimes more.

for the last 6 months...and before that 75-150 mg a day for 6 months.


I feel almost 100 percent now....probably about 75-80 percent.

I feel for you....and to be honest..going to NA meetings everyday now since I started has helped greatly....

I know its hard but there is no way in HELL I Would get on another opiate.

I went to my doc on day 5 and told him nothing narcotic...no Xanax....

I got 25 mg of Zoloft and 15 mg of busperin for aniexty...


did I crave Methadone and suboxone to help?  Yea...I did.

Yesterday at this time I was crawling the walls on day 8 with no energy and pain...

day 7 I was ok.

day 9 I feel way better but not good yet.

either way....Please only stay on that stuff for a short time then quit cold turkey...go to NA....make this a time to have a life again.

good luck.

[GA Guy]

Yes, of course doctors make money from Suboxone prescriptions. That's the business. However, if the Suboxone business was as lucrative as people make it out to be, don't you think every GP in your area would be licensed to prescribe it? I live in a fairly urban area, and I still had to travel 30 miles to my Sub doctor. The 100 patient cap helps keep doctors from turning their clinics into Suboxone clinics...much like Methadone is dispensed. The costs of Suboxone treatment should reduce somewhat now due to the widespread release of a generic formulation.

[leeisgettingclean]

thats all true..doctors like everyone else make money off the services they offer. I am not disagreeing with you on what you have said.
  So I didnt know they released a generic...thats cool, i am sure lots of people are happy about that!!

[GA Guy]

Yeah, I'm sure that many people are happy about the generic alternative...especially those paying out of pocket. I know, with my doctor, the med costs was more than the appointments each month. I know people have seen us debating the ups and downs of Suboxone..but we're both just coming to the same conclusions...Know your Doctor, Do Your Research, and Have a Plan.

[KeepThemAwayFromMe]

my plan is to live on these if necessary
i have been killing myself and my family with the pain killers - spending every dime available and the 50$ a month to see the dr and the 200$ a month for the prescription for suboxone is okay with me.  I've done the meetings, treatment, outpatient and inpatient - i have sponsor who just so happens to be a drug/alcohol therapist so I have a network of clean people but it wasn't enough.  If I don't take the subs, I'm going to die from the pain killers and the tylenol that comes with them.
I'm 25 and my liver is already damaged.  I can't keep up the rat race.  Having to take ONE suboxone a day instead of 20-30 norco, is the biggest relief of my life.  
I've done the research and know what will happen if I'm without them, but it doesn't matter at this point.  I'm on day 3 of no pain killers for the first time in a year.  Today is Wednesday, the day I'm allowed to pick up my 40 norco's at the pharmacy and I could care less that they're sitting there waiting for me.  I have no desire to get them when typically, for the last several months, i'm at the drive threw for the pharmacy minutes before they open, waiting for the pills.
I'm glad to have at the very least, lack of obsession

[JC1981]

well im on day 5 without taken pain killers and i been taken them for almost 10 year and i feel fine but i don't know if that because im taken methocarbamol 750mg 2 tablets three times a day which i got from my doctor yestuday

[salsinator]

Wow - this is quite a debate on Suboxone.  I agree, people should take it short term and if it is taken long term, the withdrawal is long and drawn out and can be much worse than their DOC.  However, like GaGuy said, Suboxone does have it's place and even though I took it long term and spent a considerable amount of money to detox off it - I still believe that if it were not for suboxone, I could very well be dead or in a gutter somewhere right now.  Soboxone is definitley no what the pharma makers tout it to be, but when used correctly for the right reasons, it is a great tool for opiate detox.

[avisg]

I am firm beliver in short term sub if you are going to take it just do the work while you are on it and stick with it when you get off. Which is recovery care the recovery care is what will help you stay clean .

[salsinator]

I agree Avisg

[leeisgettingclean]

i couldnt agree more with avisg

[Ballgame]

Geez that's Fox news for you

[laurel453]

well, well... IF this doctor is a bag of lies,  then i would say good luck with the film ( and well done ) .

[BostonIrish112]

The lil piece you posted about Candido "Candy" Delgado .. let me fill u in on Candy. I have known him since he was lil ... don't let him fool you he grew up in the projects etc and is nowhere clean. He did that interview as a RAT !!! Take it from me that interview was BS !!!! And to know what he is, has done and is still doing then turn around and rat on everyone we grew up with makes me sick !!!

[Olivia1947]

MAD DOG Millionaire aka Punyamurtula Kishore MD, Is MAD DOG going to State Prison?
Punyamurtula Kishore MD aka MAD Dog Millionaire is a fraud , The American College of Addiction Medicine and the National Library of Addiction has never existed except on paper. Punyamurtula Kishore has been indicted by 3 Grand Juries for Medical Insurance Fraud , bribery and giving out and receiving kickbacks.

MAD DOG MILLIONAIRE aka PUNYAMURTULA KISHORE HAS BEEN INDICTED BY 3 DIFFERENT GRAND JURYS , SUFFOLK COUNTY, MIDDLESEX COUNTY AND BARNSTABLE COUNTY FOR MEDICAL INSURANCE FRAUD . CORRUPTION , LYING , CHEATING , and STEALING from Mass Health , Medicare , Medicaid and private insurance companies .

Exploiting his emoloyees and patients. Billing insurance companies without examining or seeing the patients. 30 years of CORRUPTION , LIES, CHEATING AND STEALING is Punyamurtula Kishore MD aka Mad Dog Millionaire's trademark .

He was involved in Corruption when he was the Medical Director at the Massachusetts Dept. of Correction , Martha Eliot Health Ctr , Roxbury Comprehensive Health Ctr. and his possess Medical Practice , Preventive Medicine Associates.formerly Addiction Medicine Associates.

He used two entities he created on paper that never existed called the National library of Addictions and the American College of Addiction Medicine to advocate his emergence in the field of addiction medicine. This unscrupulous MD used and exploited his patients and employees for financial wealth. The only thing that MAD DOG MILLIONAIRE aka Punyamurtula Kishore cared about was making money at the expense of someone elses misery.